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[01:28:25] <mcload> hello !
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[06:27:38] * Darke bows. Hi!
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[08:08:26] <Dominus> hello
[08:09:12] <Darke> Hi.
[08:10:32] <Dominus> there seems to be a guy with sound issues with kernel 2.4.18 on the Dragons newsgroup see:
[08:10:34] <Dominus> http://groups.google.at/groups?q=exult+0.98rc1+sound+issue&hl=de&selm=20020409164629.3a95ac43.sdwilson%40fas.harvard.edu&rnum=1
[08:15:44] <Darke> Hmm... IIRC, someone else had a similar problem with exult a while back, but I think his problem was he needed to upgrade ALSA...
[08:16:13] * Dominus grumbles:"whatever ALSA is..."
[08:16:27] * Darke thinks the best idea would be for him to grab a cvs snapshot, or just the current cvs and compile and test it to see if he still has the problems.
[08:19:03] <Darke> We've had sound problems under windows, but they weren't with the Live cards. I've got a setup almost identical to his, just an older kernal version and an older video card.
[08:19:27] * Darke tests to see if his sound works. He doesn't have sound turned on. <grin>
[08:19:38] <Dominus> he he
[08:21:33] * Darke sighs. It'll be a while, he needs to recompile exult.
[08:21:54] <Dominus> he he
[08:22:35] <Darke> Looks like we need to wait until the 26th to find out how 'well' we did. <grin> http://linuxformat.co.uk/awards/
[08:23:41] <Dominus> phew took them long enough
[08:24:23] * Dominus notices that Big Brother has started in Australia as well now
[08:24:31] <Dominus> what a waste of time
[08:24:54] <Darke> The first series started last year. And yeah, a _complete_ waste of time.
[08:25:39] <Dominus> an even worse waste of time is that some people feel the need to post the capped stuff in multimedia groups on usenet
[08:26:01] <Dominus> In Germany they stopped after the 3rd show
[08:26:47] <Dominus> in Austria they did a better version (but still a waste of time). The candidates had to provide for themselves and had to drive taxi in Vienna in shifts :-)
[08:26:57] * Darke hopes the second series flops here.
[08:27:09] <Dominus> and the camera was also in the taxi and that was fun sometimes
[08:27:11] <Darke> <grin> Cool!
[08:27:31] <Dominus> but the 2nd series flopped in Austria as did the 3rd BB in Germany
[08:28:19] <Dominus> In austria it was called "taxi orange" and I admit I watched the first series from time to time but never even peeked at the 2nd
[08:29:13] <Dominus> they sold their concept off to other countries (I think they did it also in Turkey and somewhere else but I can't remember)
[08:29:38] * Dominus just notices that the worst waste of time is talking about such stuff and shuts up
[08:29:53] <Darke> From the looks of things, the second series here has just been _completely_ overhyped. I expect people will start watching it, but the ratings will drop off rather sharply in the middle of it. Of course, they're using a hefty dose of sex appeal and such, from what I've seen in this series. So maybe that's the 'key' to keep it going. <grin>
[08:31:50] <Darke> Nah, talking about a waste of time, isn't usually a waste of time, because you'll usually get useful bits of information out of it. Even though this conversation just seems to be proving that that people are stupid and gullable the world over, which I already knew. <grin>
[08:32:09] <Dominus> :-)
[08:32:46] * Dominus just noticed that he'S not even sure if BB in Germany even had a 3rd series
[08:35:55] <Dominus> AAARGHHHHH
[08:36:03] <Dominus> Stupid Chello!!!!!
[08:36:04] * Darke earperks.
[08:36:35] <Dominus> My ISP, Chello has my name on file as Dominik Reichart not Reichardt (notice the 'd')
[08:36:55] * Darke ahhs.
[08:37:07] <Dominus> now I changed my account from Student to plus (double speed up/down) and now I have a nice email-address
[08:37:18] <Dominus> email@example.com
[08:37:40] <Dominus> that is annoying
[08:39:56] * Darke icks. Agreed.
[08:40:22] <Dominus> but I can create aliases
[08:41:12] <Dominus> but still annyoing
[08:45:05] * Darke nods and taps his foot. Still waiting for it to compile. <grin>
[08:45:14] <Dominus> still?
[08:46:23] <Darke> Someone updated configure.in and I didn't notice, so it died halfway through, and I had to autogen it and start it _all_ over again. <grin>
[08:46:37] <Dominus> ugh
[08:47:52] <Darke> Hmm... Jeff added freetype2 support, I guess it's got something to do with 'creating a shape from a font file'.
[08:48:45] <Dominus> I have no idea at all
[08:55:19] * Darke knows what freetype2 is, he just downloaded, compiled and installed the latest version. He guesses he's using it to render a standard truetype font onto a memory 'bitmap' and then write it out as a font shape.
[09:09:11] <Darke> Nothing out of the ordinary. Just bird sounds, thunder sounds, wave sounds...
[09:09:49] <Dominus> hm, okay
[09:10:37] <Dominus> I'll post something like that in the reply (try to compile the latest source, update ALAS (whatever that is), if all fails, post on the forum)
[09:10:42] <Darke> There's a 'twee' or 'twee twee' sound that happens regularly, but that's just bird calls, IIRC.
[09:11:23] <Darke> Don't worry about ALSA, I don't think that'll be the problem. The original ALSA problem had more then just that IIRC.
[09:11:47] <Dominus> okay then
[09:12:25] <Darke> I'm pretty sure he's describing the waves. They're definately a hissing noise, and they happen about every half a second.
[09:13:03] <Darke> Actually, closer a second, and they sound about a second long.
[09:13:24] <Darke> Maybe he's just loaded a save near the ocean, or they sound has 'stuck'?
[09:14:56] <Dominus> okay then I'll also recommend to him to teleport somewhere into the wild and then stop the wave effects via the muisc soundbox and then he should try again
[09:15:43] <Dominus> ha, noe I have made a 2nd email account on chello with my real name and have set a forward from the faulty one to that one :-9
[09:16:12] <Dominus> nice I now have about 40MB websapce
[09:16:32] * Dominus wonders what he should do with it
[09:20:16] * Darke grins. No idea.
[09:23:05] <Darke> (sounds) <nod> That would be a good idea. It _should_ stop it, or at least give us an idea if his problem really is the waves or not. <grin>
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[11:00:37] <Dominus> hi
[11:03:02] <mcSleep> hello!
[11:03:30] <Darke> Hi.
[11:44:08] <Kirben> Dominus: could you try out new hack .bat file for studio ?
[11:44:21] <Dominus> sure
[11:45:01] <Kirben> ok first will need freetype 2 dev package at http://www.gimp.org/~tml/gimp/win32/freetype-dev-2.0.5-20011117.zip just extract to mingw directory
[11:45:31] <Kirben> then just replace old .bat file with this one...
[11:46:27] <Dominus> ok
[11:46:57] <Kirben> make sure exult cvs is current and attempt an exult studio compile
[11:48:00] <Dominus> I just noticed that :-)
[11:48:17] <Dominus> I hadn't done the cvs update :-)
[11:50:06] <Dominus> seems to have worked as the compiled exult_studio.exe complains about not finding the freetype dll :-)
[11:50:15] <Dominus> can you send me this one as well?
[11:50:30] <Kirben> http://www.gimp.org/~tml/gimp/win32/freetype-2.0.5-20011117.zip
[11:52:47] <Dominus> worked fine
[11:52:49] <Dominus> thanks
[11:56:32] <Kirben> ok compile info is current again then.
[11:57:49] <Dominus> great! thx for making it possible for us non-cygwin-guys (though I would really like to know who does his own windows snapshots apart from you, colourless and me)
[12:00:02] <mcSleep> how do you Export the Flx palette?
[12:00:22] <mcSleep> I tried playing a bit with Exult Studio yesterday (Trying to replace some of teh graphx from u7)
[12:00:50] <mcSleep> put I have trouble loading the Paletteon Gimp (since I heard Import/Export with photoshop was a mess)
[12:03:09] <Dominus> actually on loading a shape on gimp you don't need the palette
[12:03:49] <mcSleep> but I would need it to apply it to my new graphic (I was trying t oreplace the "book" by one of mine
[12:04:25] <mcSleep> And also when i try to load a .SHP, it require a pallete file with gimp^
[12:04:25] <Dominus> load the original and save that palette, I think
[12:04:39] <Dominus> it doesn't require one
[12:04:57] <Dominus> it just asks for one. if you press ok it loads the shp just fine
[12:05:04] <mcSleep> But it's asking for a Text palette file
[12:05:17] <mcSleep> It load the Shp with messy colors here :(
[12:05:36] <Dominus> define messy :-)
[12:05:39] <mcSleep> (I have to admit that i'm not verty familiar with the gimp anyway )
[12:05:47] <mcSleep> Messy ? => Looks like CGA :)
[12:05:52] * Dominus is not familair at all
[12:06:12] <Dominus> are you sing the windows gimp or the U*ix
[12:06:18] <Dominus> sing=using
[12:06:19] <mcSleep> Win32
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[12:07:21] <Dominus> hm, then make sure that you copied the u7shp.exe from our download page over the one already existing in the Gimp dir somewhere
[12:07:24] * Dominus looks
[12:07:35] <mcload> ok, checking!
[12:08:15] <Dominus> in \GIMP\lib\gimp\1.2\plug-ins\
[12:10:05] <mcload> who do I know if I use teh good U7shp.exe ?
[12:10:14] <mcload> (it's located at the right place)
[12:10:34] <Dominus> look at the date
[12:11:00] <Dominus> needs to be 18.0302 or newer
[12:11:10] <Dominus> 18.03.02
[12:11:26] <Dominus> not 10.03.02
[12:11:27] <mcload> 19.03.02
[12:11:28] <mcload> lol
[12:11:57] * Dominus doesn't know what else could be the issue
[12:12:32] <mcload> ANyway working with proprietary palettes is a real pain
[12:12:44] <mcload> it's like the 256forced palmOS palette
[12:12:59] <Dominus> well, anyway did you try extracting palettes.flx with expack?
[12:13:04] <mcload> I wish there where a way to Use 65k or custom 256
[12:14:05] <Dominus> expack is in the tools sanspshot availlable from our download page
[12:14:35] <Dominus> and doing "expack -x palettes.flx" produces a couple of files that look like pal files
[12:15:09] <Dominus> you just have to rename them
[12:15:24] <mcload> they will work as .Pal ?
[12:16:01] <mcload> and what about exporting the palette inside Exult Studio? it will work too if I rename them in .PAl
[12:16:39] * Darke hmms. Pentagram should be able to handle 65k 'easily', since there's no colour cycling, only animation. Not that pentagram will be anything more then a map editor of course. <grin>
[12:16:42] <Dominus> I'm not sure as I'm not really versed with all that graphics stuff
[12:17:14] <mcload> penta = Editor for U8 right ?
[12:17:25] * Darke really has no idea either. He's not touched any of the graphics stuff.
[12:17:34] <Dominus> though I'm really not sure why loading the shapes in Gimp doesn't work :-(
[12:17:37] <mcload> huhu:)
[12:17:39] <Darke> mcload: Map viewer currently.
[12:17:54] <Dominus> Map, Shapes and Globs viewer
[12:18:11] <Darke> There's a usecode viewer too. <grin>
[12:18:13] <mcload> THen who is the Exult guy more versed on Graphic stuff ? :)
[12:18:23] <Darke> No editors though. <grin>
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[12:18:34] <wjp> hi
[12:18:39] <Darke> Hi.
[12:18:40] <mcload> hello
[12:18:46] <Dominus> ah, maybe wjp can help you some more
[12:18:53] <Dominus> hi wjp
[12:18:54] <Dominus> :-)
[12:19:04] * wjp reads logs
[12:20:27] <Dominus> well, anyway I have to log off and do some hardware stuff with my PC (change cables, change the power-thingy)...
[12:20:31] <Dominus> bbl
[12:20:34] <Darke> Bye.
[12:20:35] <mcload> oki:)
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[12:20:46] <wjp> what's the problem?
[12:20:58] <mcload> I had trouble working with palettes
[12:21:05] <mcload> wit exult studio
[12:21:26] <mcload> also i didn't manage ot replace one the "book" fromu U7 lib by mine
[12:22:22] <mcload> Willem Jan Palenstijn in the Netherlands, also known as "Arthuris Dragon", has done the Windows port, the BeOS port, cheat subsystem, header optimization and more
[12:22:28] <mcload> ==> Is that you ?
[12:22:31] * wjp nods
[12:22:45] <mcload> huhu
[12:22:50] <wjp> hm, that list could use some updating
[12:22:51] <wjp> that was ages ago
[12:22:55] <mcload> did you read my Posts about a pocketPC port ?
[12:23:06] <wjp> not really
[12:23:35] <mcload> well I'm trying to convince some of you to make a pocket PC port of Exult
[12:23:54] <mcload> I think it would be the best platform to play U7 with a fresh look
[12:24:28] <mcload> you can have a look at the thread if you want
[12:26:46] <mcload> it looks like you are the "Port da man" ;)
[12:27:15] <wjp> hardly :-)
[12:27:33] <wjp> is SDL ported to the pocketpc platform at all?
[12:27:49] <mcload> i'm not sure
[12:27:57] <mcload> I'm more into graphix and art
[12:28:12] <wjp> SDL is the main requirement for a port
[12:28:12] <Darke> Currently I think what would stymie development of that is, like the 'Dreamcast port' concept, that I don't think anyone actually has a PocketPC to develop it on. <grin>
[12:28:24] <mcload> I have 2
[12:28:36] <mcload> The tools are free
[12:28:51] <mcload> a lot of people own those kind of devices now
[12:28:51] <wjp> linux based?
[12:28:54] <mcload> no
[12:28:56] <mcload> WInce3
[12:29:00] <wjp> count me out :-)
[12:29:07] <mcload> It use Embedded visual tools
[12:29:18] * wjp isn't touching windows if he can help it
[12:29:38] <mcload> it's quite powerfull we have already made 2 big games using that!
[12:30:45] * Darke agrees with wjp. <grin> If there's a sdl out for it though, it might be easy enough to make it worth while.
[12:31:25] <mcload> as I saif in my post, someone manageed to Port Scumm on PocketPCs
[12:31:37] <mcload> I think SDL should work
[12:31:38] <mcload> checking
[12:31:53] <mcload> (pocketscumm is really impressive)
[12:32:18] * Darke is trying to hunt down which OSes SDL has been ported to, too.
[12:33:38] <mcload> also nearly all Old console platform has been ported to PPC (Genesis/snes/GBC/a slow port og GBA too)
[12:34:19] <mcload> neo geo pocket =>http://neopocott.emuunlim.com/
[12:34:31] <Kirben> sdl has been ported to just about every common OS
[12:35:31] <mcload> PocktScumm ==>http://arisme.free.fr/PocketScumm/
[12:37:43] <wjp> slightly related: there's a port in progress of SDL to the Zaurus
[12:37:56] <Darke> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/scummvm/scummvm/wince/
[12:38:01] <mcload> yes, the Zaurus is a Linux based PPC
[12:38:40] <mcload> but there are a very few Zaurus device around (most are in Japan) westerners are nto really interested because of the lack of software :(
[12:38:52] <mcload> BRB
[12:39:52] <Darke> Bye.
[12:43:02] * Darke is not really sure if it is using sdl. There appears to be quite of windows code in that dir that looks like it handles screen primitives. But he's not really talking from experience here. <grin>
[12:55:16] <mcload> back
[13:09:02] <mcload> Argh
[13:09:05] <mcload> I'm not sure either
[13:09:17] <mcload> the guys claim they port Scumm in 2 weeks
[13:09:25] <mcload> but I highly doubt it
[13:11:09] <Darke> Dunno. If all they're doing is replacing the few sdl functions it uses with their own, it could be possible to do it in a couple of weeks. <grin>
[13:12:56] <mcload> So as far as I understand , the only way i'll see Exult /U7 on PPC is to have my team working on it :(
[13:15:34] <Darke> Currently, I would guess so, that's how the Amiga port was done, but they apparently had a working sdl.
[13:15:40] * wjp looks at the "HOW IT WORKS?" post
[13:15:51] <wjp> funny how those two posts are made in 4 minutes of eachother from the same IP range
[13:16:44] <Darke> Wasn't there a question on the forum a week or so ago on exactly this topic? Or was that on the ML?
[13:19:25] * wjp thinks it's kind of a dirty trick to post that kind of reply to yourself...
[13:19:30] <wjp> I wonder if I should reply to it
[13:20:18] <wjp> we had conversations about z-ordering in several places about a month ago, IIRC
[13:22:41] <Darke> Even ignoring IP ranges, the posts read as if they were written in the same style, so if not by the same person, it'd probably have to be someone who knows him. <grin>
[13:29:35] <Darke> The 'I need help.' thread touches on ZOrder, that's the only post I can see on the forum.
[13:38:39] <wjp> it was the same person. At least he admitted it :-)
[13:39:58] * Darke snickers.
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[14:00:01] <mcload> back
[14:00:04] <mcload> huh?
[14:00:06] <Colourless> hi
[14:00:18] <Darke> Hi.
[14:00:26] <wjp> hi
[14:00:41] <mcload> you where refering to me when talking about the posts on the forums ?
[14:00:59] <Darke> mcload: Nah, the 'How it works?' forum post.
[14:01:09] <mcload> ohh sorry :)
[14:04:22] <mcload> port of Sarien on all platforms (including a pocketPC version) Using SDl (i think) ==>http://sarien.sourceforge.net/screenshots/page2.php
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[14:10:12] <mcload> hey
[14:10:30] <mcload> I just found a log of your forums wherer a guy was interested of a port to PPC
[14:10:40] <mcload> http://www.google.fr/search?q=cache:QzjbRJQTWMgC:www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3%3Flog%3D8Jul2001+SDL+port+for+pocketPC&hl=fr.
[14:11:16] <Colourless> that's not a log of the forums, that's a log of here
[14:11:24] <mcload> yes, my mistake
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[14:12:22] <Dominus> back again
[14:12:39] <Dominus> with a slightly less noisy PC :-)
[14:13:10] <Colourless> hi
[14:13:19] <Dominus> hi
[14:13:59] <Darke> Hi.
[14:15:36] <mcload> I'll try to have a hand on that guy, maybe he could help more
[14:16:48] <mcload> most of you doenst realize yet, but it could be the most Popular Port of Exult, this platform are the best suited for this
[14:17:56] <Colourless> it may well be, but none up us exult developers can actually do anything about it. we don't have ppc
[14:17:59] <Colourless> 's
[14:18:01] <Darke> Hmm... the same guy who did this port also did that scummvm port. And it also looks like it's been 'windowised'.
[14:18:42] <mcload> what do you mean by "Windowised" ?
[14:19:14] <mcload> colour : We make 80% of our first game out with an emulator
[14:19:24] <mcload> And I can provide testing on real device
[14:19:33] <Darke> It looks like he's 'emulating' sdl again.
[14:20:46] <Colourless> how much ram does the ppc have?
[14:20:52] <mcload> Current have 64
[14:20:56] <mcload> Olders have 32
[14:20:57] <Colourless> not bad
[14:21:00] <mcload> but
[14:21:14] <Colourless> yes?
[14:21:15] <mcload> All PPC user have at least 64mb to 256 mb CF storage
[14:21:52] <mcload> (I have Pocketscumm installed on my 64mb Sd card With Indy 4,Sam and max and Dott for exemple)
[14:21:55] <Darke> Like say this file. There's a 'WinMain' definition in it, and although I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be there if it was using sdl. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/sarien/sarien/eVC3/winmain.cpp?rev=1.8&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
[14:22:00] <mcload> Only the main memora can be used as ram
[14:25:28] <mcload> out main products (fade) use 10mo of storage (an be installated on any CF card or main memory) and use 12 Mb or Ram
[14:27:14] <mcload> so i guess the U7 files can be installed Externaly (CF/SD) and Exult will use the Main memory alone (as we did in our game) it should run on most configs
[14:28:23] * Darke nods.
[14:28:26] <Colourless> 32 mb or main memory should be enough
[14:28:58] <mcload> those devices put hte GBA to shame
[14:29:07] <mcload> they are a little too pricy however
[14:29:13] <Colourless> well they are meant to be a computer... not a toy
[14:29:19] <mcload> not really
[14:29:35] <mcload> Palms are more used for business
[14:29:40] <mcload> PPC are All around Device
[14:29:54] <mcload> with a special focus on Multimedia capacities
[14:30:38] <mcload> (Mp3/Graphic API/65k color/Power ect )
[14:30:53] <mcload> i don't see the use of all that stuff only for PocketExcel :)
[14:31:19] <Colourless> they are still not 'toys' though like the gba. they are a somewhat general purpose machine
[14:31:25] <mcload> yrd
[14:31:28] <mcload> yes
[14:31:29] <mcload> :)
[14:31:33] <Darke> From SDL1.2.3: "SDL is NOT SUPPORTED on the WinCE platform! This is for experimental purposes only." There's also a number of things that don't work: DirectX, Semaphores, Joystick, CD-ROM control.
[14:31:41] <mcload> It's more Adult oriented that for sure:)
[14:32:02] <Darke> README.WinCE, BTW.
[14:32:12] <Colourless> we use none of those things
[14:32:23] <Darke> Then theres a few things that are 'degraded'.
[14:32:39] * Darke can cut&paste if you wish...
[14:32:46] <Dominus> please
[14:33:04] <Darke> It does explain why there's so much windows specific code in those ports.
[14:33:27] <mcload> CD rom control:)
[14:33:59] <mcload> what is the part of SDL wich would be absolutly needed btw?
[14:34:00] <Darke> SDL_systimer.c:
[14:34:01] <Darke> USE_GETTICKCOUNT Less accurate values for SDL time functions
[14:34:01] <Darke> USE_SETTIMER Use only a single marginally accurate timer
[14:34:01] <Darke> SDL_syswm.c:
[14:34:01] <Darke> DISABLE_ICON_SUPPORT Can't set the runtime window icon
[14:34:01] <Darke> SDL_sysmouse.c:
[14:34:03] <Darke> USE_STATIC_CURSOR Only the arrow cursor is available
[14:34:04] <mcload> for graphic management ?
[14:34:19] <Darke> SDL_sysevents.c:
[14:34:19] <Darke> NO_GETKEYBOARDSTATE Can't get modifier state on keyboard focus
[14:34:19] <Darke> SDL_dibevents.c:
[14:34:19] <Darke> NO_GETKEYBOARDSTATE Very limited keycode translation
[14:34:19] <Darke> SDL_dibvideo.c:
[14:34:22] <Darke> NO_GETDIBITS Can't distinguish between 15 bpp and 16 bpp
[14:34:24] <Darke> NO_CHANGEDISPLAYSETTINGS No fullscreen support
[14:34:26] <Darke> NO_GAMMA_SUPPORT Gamma correction not available
[14:35:00] <Darke> That's all that's documented. I expect they'd be other things that are also in an 'unstable' state that aren't.
[14:35:02] <mcload> I think Gapi can handle all of this
[14:35:41] <wjp> that's not the issue. SDL has to support it
[14:35:45] <Darke> I'm sure the current SDLcvs, theoretically soon-to-be SDL1.3 would have solved a few of these problems.
[14:35:58] <Colourless> that stuff doesn't 'really' matter much to use though
[14:36:16] <Colourless> fullscreen perhaps would be about the only one to cause us problems
[14:36:26] <mcload> No cursors on PPC ,since there is a Stylus instead of Mouse...
[14:36:36] <wjp> README.WinCE is still the same in the current CVS version
[14:36:58] <Colourless> as long as the cursor can be disabled, that isn
[14:37:03] <Colourless> 't a problem for us
[14:37:07] <wjp> "modifier state on keyboard focus" ?
[14:37:18] <mcload> No keyboard as well :)
[14:37:21] <Colourless> shift, alt and control i think
[14:37:42] <wjp> there's no keyboard? anything to emulate a keyboard?
[14:37:57] <mcload> yes, ther is a Virtual keyboard
[14:38:03] <mcload> but it is hidden
[14:38:16] <mcload> and not available when in full screen Gapi mode)
[14:38:35] <Colourless> how are double clicks handled?
[14:38:40] <mcload> touble tap
[14:38:54] <mcload> the controls should be the same
[14:39:04] <wjp> can you drag'n'drop with the 'mouse'?
[14:39:07] <mcload> exept that you can get rid of the Arrow (for runing)
[14:39:08] <Dominus> phew, without a keyboard is hard
[14:39:11] <mcload> Wjp : Yes
[14:39:14] <Colourless> right vs left click?
[14:39:19] <mcload> Drag and drop, /point and click whatever
[14:39:47] <mcload> Click /Double click, I never saw any right click
[14:40:12] <Colourless> exult uses left to manipulate the world, right to move
[14:40:32] <mcload> but it stil lcan be done, if you use a button press top simulate it
[14:40:41] <mcload> or better
[14:41:15] <mcload> Button click + Stylus Point = Right click for exemple
[14:41:16] <Colourless> things would probably setup to swap the mouse buttons
[14:41:49] <Colourless> it would be more useful for having the defult mode to be move, and Click+Point to be 'use'
[14:41:49] <mcload> or using the Pad to move the character and The stylus to Interact
[14:41:54] <wjp> button click? hm, what kind of input do you have exactly?
[14:42:14] <mcload> wait a sec
[14:42:43] * Darke wonders if the dev tools will run under wine/winex.
[14:45:11] <mcload> http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?cat=machinesppc&id=75&p=6
[14:45:15] <mcload> this is my main machine
[14:45:23] <mcload> (sorry for the french :)
[14:45:29] <Colourless> i think just getting it might be a problem for a linux user. knowing ms, the website problem only works with ie :-)
[14:45:41] <mcload> haha
[14:45:43] <Colourless> s/problem/probably/
[14:45:56] <Darke> If that's the case. <grin> http://www.pdafrance.com/img/testproduit_pocketpc/casioem505f/ecran.jpg
[14:46:48] <mcload> I would see Exult running U7 in landscape Mode of course
[14:46:56] <wjp> it even has 40 spare rows of pixels
[14:46:57] <mcload> since the screen is 240x320 65k
[14:48:06] <mcload> http://www.fade-team.com/Shot1.jpg => Shot from my Latest game, It looks Exactly like this on My PPC
[14:48:36] <mcload> (sorry it was a lame attempt at self advertisement):)
[14:48:51] * Darke ooohs... pretty.
[14:48:52] <Colourless> you know that none of us has a ppc :-)
[14:49:02] <mcload> yes, I know
[14:49:03] * Dominus looks at the picture and wonders what kind of game you are making :-)
[14:49:07] <mcload> Huhu
[14:49:09] <mcload> Adventure
[14:49:16] <mcload> but this one will be a card game
[14:49:25] <Dominus> he he
[14:49:25] <Colourless> not like the adventure games that i 'used' to play :-)
[14:49:36] <mcload> http://www.fade-team.com/
[14:49:39] <Dominus> that's what I 1st thought: looks like a strip poker :-)
[14:49:58] <mcload> Absolutly not a strip poket
[14:50:04] <Colourless> the 240x320 res would be interesting
[14:50:10] <Dominus> :-)
[14:50:22] <Dominus> mcload: I'm just bs you!
[14:50:28] <mcload> heh ok:)
[14:50:59] <Colourless> the games were designed to be 320x200.... we would almost want to play them with the machine rotated around 90 degrees
[14:51:02] <mcload> I really like this new platform, the community is ver active
[14:51:21] <Colourless> the engine of course can handle whatever resolution we throw at it though
[14:51:25] <mcload> colour : That was my plan, PockeScumm is used horizontally too
[14:51:37] <wjp> Colourless: even 32x20 pixels, IIRC :-)
[14:51:38] <mcload> and the Extra 40 pixels are used for the UI
[14:51:58] <Colourless> the status bars wouldn't fit accress the bottom of the screen with only 240 pixels wide
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[14:52:07] <Darke> wjp: Wasn't that before the status bars though? <grin>
[14:52:21] <Colourless> na, it was after :-)
[14:52:36] <Colourless> we were board and were testing the robustness of the point scaler :-)
[14:52:41] <Colourless> s/board/bored/
[14:53:20] * Darke makes a mental note to stay as far away from Colourless as he can, when Colourless is bored.
[14:53:40] <wjp> better stay away from me too, then :-)
[14:53:41] <mcload> http://arisme.free.fr/PocketScumm/images/nurabsal.png => Nie use of teh 40 extra pixel
[14:53:42] <Colourless> well it was like 32x20x20 :-)
[14:54:56] <Colourless> we'd probably just use the extra 40 pixels as part of the game world
[14:55:47] <mcload> can be, but it can also be used to have Extra Options available everywhere
[14:56:17] <mcload> If only my coders Liked U7 like me :)
[14:56:51] * Dominus just plays Exult in 32x20
[14:56:59] <mcload> lol
[14:57:07] <Colourless> be warned Dominus, you can not see what you are doing :-)
[14:57:24] <Colourless> if you manage to get into the actual game, the avatar is the size of the screen
[14:57:27] <Dominus> I have this incomplete status face of the avatar in the main screen :-)
[14:57:41] <mcload> Dialogs will be a Hell :)
[14:57:54] <Dominus> quite funny actually
[15:03:53] <Colourless> i wonder if there is actually an upper limit for the res that exult can handle... how would exult handle if you attempted to show the entire world, at the same time, and then some more (i.e. wrapping around twice in one dimention)
[15:04:23] <wjp> the most I've tried is about 6000x6000
[15:04:47] <Colourless> well you'll need to about 26k isn't it?
[15:04:51] <wjp> worked perfectly; just a 'little' slow :-)
[15:05:05] <wjp> yeah, the world is 24Kx24K
[15:05:45] <wjp> hm, I would need 16x20 virtual desktops for that
[15:06:41] <mcload> The 40 extra pixel can also be used to implement a Virtual Move system btw
[15:07:35] <Colourless> wjp, no you don't.. you only need to check one dimention. your window only needs to be really big in one dimention... it doesn't need to be a square :-)
[15:07:55] <wjp> but that's cheating, and nowhere near as cool :-)
[15:08:29] <Colourless> mcload: yeah. if it were done, chances are it would be probably also be an option for normal users too. that way exult 'could' be control by only using a mouse
[15:08:32] <wjp> I wonder if there's a signed 16 bit limit anywhere that will be hit at 32K
[15:09:00] <Colourless> could be. exult uses 16 bit ints quite a bit in places
[15:09:42] <mcload> http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/device/prodinfo.asp ==> Embedded visual tools (not sure if linux user can reach that)
[15:10:12] <Colourless> requires msvc if i'm not mistaken :-)
[15:10:20] <wjp> ok... 16x2 virtual desktops...
[15:11:11] * wjp prepares a killall -9 exult on a VC
[15:11:21] * wjp sets width to 10K...
[15:11:44] <Colourless> that sdk is just a 'tad' large for me to download :-)
[15:12:09] <wjp> ok, 10K works
[15:12:32] <mcload> Yep 300 mb :-
[15:12:35] <mcload> :-
[15:12:35] <mcload> :(
[15:12:42] <wjp> 20K segfaults
[15:12:46] <wjp> (at startup)
[15:13:11] <wjp> 16K still works
[15:13:42] <Colourless> hehe
[15:13:43] <Colourless> When prompted for the CDKey, please enter TRT7H-KD36T-FRH8D-6QH8P-VFJHQ
[15:13:48] <mcload> http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/developer/technicalarticles/debugapps.asp ==> Emulator
[15:14:17] <wjp> segfaults in SDL_ClearSurface
[15:14:31] <Colourless> hmm, a sdl problem :-)
[15:14:36] <wjp> (well, SDL_FillRect, actually)
[15:14:36] <Colourless> not an exult problem :-)
[15:15:04] <Dominus> SDL is so crappy can't even handle that low res
[15:15:33] <wjp> yeah, I mean, 20000x200 pixels?! that's nothing!
[15:15:52] <Colourless> file a bug report!
[15:15:53] * Darke prods wjp to file _that_ bug report. "Can't handle more then 20k pixels in a direction. Important, please fix." <grin>
[15:16:03] <Dominus> :-)
[15:16:45] <Colourless> well, we are attempting to push our engine to the limits. if our chosen graphics api can't handle it, then that's a big problem :-)
[15:16:59] --- flurotube is now known as royalsexy
[15:16:59] --- royalsexy is now known as flurotube
[15:17:46] * Darke boggles when he reads that quick change as someone changing to 'sexyflurotube'.
[15:17:47] <Colourless> wjp, you relize that 20000x200 is less pixels than 6000x6000
[15:18:10] <Colourless> does it run 'faster' :-)
[15:18:21] <wjp> yeah, a lot
[15:18:35] <wjp> but that's probably because it only has 1600x200 pixels on-screen instead of 1600x1200
[15:18:42] <Colourless> well it's about 32 million pixels less total :-)
[15:19:05] <wjp> and there's that :-)
[15:19:07] <Colourless> this of course is alot when it's from 4 mil to 36 mil :-)
[15:19:39] <wjp> it does create and show the window
[15:19:46] <Colourless> i think it says the exult engines fillrate is really bad :-)
[15:20:46] * Dominus wonders what Exult will do if I try to load a FoV game in plain BG
[15:20:52] * Dominus decides to try
[15:22:50] <Dominus> ugh, that BG game I won has corrupted discs (not that I expected otherwise)
[15:24:29] <Dominus> stupid installer tries to read the capacity of my h and i drive only those are cd-rom drives
[15:26:28] <Dominus> that takes ages
[15:26:45] <Dominus> I'm so glad I started out with the CD Version the first time I played U7
[15:27:54] * Darke never played the disk version on a machine with a cdrom drive. <grin>
[15:28:32] <mcload> I don't knowabout you
[15:28:52] <mcload> But For Me Serpent Isle is the best scenario i ever seen on a game
[15:28:57] <mcload> I just love all those plot twist
[15:29:15] <mcload> (Xenogears come close to it but i still prefer SI)
[15:29:37] <Dominus> yeah it'S nicely done, not as free as BG but still okay
[15:29:54] <Dominus> though I do like SI better
[15:29:56] <Colourless> si is better than bg :-)
[15:30:43] <Colourless> bg imo was 'too' free
[15:31:08] --- flurotube is now known as royalsexy
[15:31:15] <mcload> yes
[15:31:25] <mcload> Best memories came from Si
[15:31:37] <mcload> The whole stuff at the city of Art :)
[15:31:47] * Darke prefers BG. He spent most of his time exploring the world to find all the little things that were hidden away.
[15:31:51] <Colourless> fawn?
[15:32:09] <mcload> haha, When you got caught by the Mayor of the Magic city in his Wife's bed!
[15:32:33] <mcload> I can't wait to Play it again on perfect condition (to not alter my memories hehe)
[15:33:06] <Colourless> first time I played BG, i got bored of it (since I pretty much had no idea what I really was meant to do) and then started playing SI. I didn't get bored of SI and finished that first
[15:34:07] <Dominus> Small graphics problem in non-FoV BG with a game loaded that has the demon blade: paperdolls disabled-no demon blade, paperdolls enabled=demon blade in the hand :-)
[15:34:31] <mcload> Paperdoll In SI where Awesome too
[15:34:50] <mcload> Damn I wish i Was able to make one looking like this in my future games:)
[15:35:08] <Colourless> it's a bug that we even allow games from the addon to be played without it
[15:35:27] <Colourless> you can't expect addon games to function anywhere near normally without it
[15:35:29] <Dominus> sometimes we should have a check in there and not allow it
[15:35:46] <Colourless> we check on journey onward IIRC, but not on Load
[15:35:53] <Dominus> Colourless: I don't, I just wanted to have some fun :-)
[15:36:08] <Dominus> we do check on journey onward
[15:39:02] <Dominus> wow, that monsnpcs.dat from that savegame that the ME user had problems with is really getting small when I save after loading this game
[15:39:15] <Dominus> from 209k to 3
[15:39:41] <Colourless> does the word 'fix' have some meaning for you?
[15:40:00] <Dominus> sure it does but I didn't think it would get that small
[15:40:42] <Dominus> Colourless: please bear with me, I'm bored atm and I'm trying to screw things up in the worst way I can think of :-)
[15:41:27] <Colourless> whether or not the fix actualy fixes the winme problem, it did fix a really bad problem :-)
[15:41:40] <Dominus> yeah
[15:41:53] <Colourless> a memory leak of sorts in the monsnpcs.dat file
[15:42:08] <Darke> Dominus: Throw random garbage into all the configuration file settings and see what happens. <grin>
[15:42:30] <Dominus> he he
[15:42:30] <Colourless> fairly unique type of leak since it got saved to the savegame, and gets reloaded :-)
[15:42:37] <wjp> :-)
[15:43:13] <Colourless> i said yesterday the news needs updating. i see no one listened :-)
[15:43:41] <wjp> feel free to update it :-)
[15:43:53] <Darke> Colourless: `/ignore Colourless` perhaps? <grin>
[15:43:55] <Dominus> huh? what did you say? all that static interfeered with my hearing :-)
[15:44:04] <Colourless> i don't know 'how' to update it :-)
[15:44:27] <Dominus> fairly easy
[15:44:30] <wjp> oh, it's easy... you just edit content/news.dat
[15:44:35] <Colourless> do not tell me :-)
[15:44:40] <wjp> then you run update on your SF account
[15:44:41] <Colourless> i do not want to know :-)
[15:44:54] <Dominus> then you ssh into exult/htdocs
[15:45:04] <Dominus> and run cvs update
[15:45:17] <wjp> better run the update script that's there
[15:45:18] <Dominus> (of course you must first commit your changed file to cvs :-)
[15:50:01] * Darke removes Colourless' earmuffs.
[16:02:11] * mcload back working on Infrared multiplayers capacities of his "Card game":)
[16:02:28] --- mcload is now known as mcwork
[16:20:44] --- Colourless is now known as Cless|Away
[16:43:50] * Darke suspects he'll be parboiled and served with a nice carrot sauce when wjp see how he's converted his nice case statement in disasm.cc, into a maze of twisty #defines (all alike) in ucfiddle... <grin>
[16:44:35] <wjp> huh? a "nice case statement" in disasm.cc?
[16:44:39] * wjp can't remember any of those
[16:45:06] * Darke grins. Your rather 'large' switch statement.
[16:46:05] <Darke> Just for reference, the 'case 0x00:' statement in that, looks something like this in ucfiddle: <grin>
[16:46:07] <Cless|Away> check out x86er.cc to see a really really nice switch statement WITH macro's too :-)
[16:46:17] <Darke> CASE_OPCODE(OPCODE_PUSHI8, READ_PUSHI8(i1));
[16:46:17] <Darke> cout << WRITE_PUSHI8(i1) << endl;
[16:46:17] <Darke> break;
[16:46:49] <wjp> don't tell me CASE_OPCODE contains a "case" statement somewhere?
[16:47:09] * Darke looks innocent. Maybe...
[16:47:15] <wjp> eeew
[16:47:38] <Darke> I'm thinking of removing that one, it helps not and obscures a lot. <grin>
[16:47:50] <Cless|Away> are you mad ! :-)
[16:48:04] * Darke is just putting together enough to decompile the 0x5 function to see how well it works. <grin>
[16:48:10] * wjp gets out the carrot sauce after all ;-)
[16:48:44] <Darke> Cless|Away: I _have_ seen your 'nice' switch statment in x86er.cc. You can't accuse _me_ of being mad. <grin>
[16:48:59] <Cless|Away> it could be worse :-)
[16:49:07] <Cless|Away> i could have used no macros at all :-)
[16:49:26] <Cless|Away> that would have been a nightmare :-)
[16:49:42] * Darke thinks it looks like a nightmare as it is. <grin>
[16:50:01] <wjp> did I ever get around to telling you dcmpsound works for me?
[16:50:12] <Cless|Away> i saw it in the logs
[16:50:26] * wjp nods. 'k
[16:51:16] <Cless|Away> you can blame the x86 ISA for why x86er::Interperate() is so bad :-)
[16:51:44] <wjp> ISA?
[16:51:52] <wjp> interperate?
[16:51:54] <Cless|Away> Instruction Set Architechture
[16:52:44] <Darke> Cless|Away: Suuuuuure! Blame it on the hardware! Or at least the hardware designers. <grin>
[16:54:35] <Cless|Away> well then, how would you have done it? :-)
[16:55:16] <Darke> Umm... I need to sleep now. <grin> Night!
[16:55:27] <wjp> night
[16:55:35] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
[16:56:39] <Cless|Away> if i removed lots of the disassembler output code i could probably clean things up a bit, but it's useful
[16:57:45] <wjp> yeah, debugging output tends to be messy
[17:00:06] <Cless|Away> i really need fingolfin to test it... but i haven't seen him around here since before I committed it
[17:00:29] <Dominus> gotta go now as well.
[17:00:32] <Dominus> See you
[17:00:34] * wjp wonders if that's a coincidence :-)
[17:00:39] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
[17:00:43] <wjp> bye
[17:00:45] <Cless|Away> heh :-)
[17:04:05] <Cless|Away> bbl
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[17:04:13] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("no comment")
[17:04:17] <wjp> huh?
[17:04:22] <wjp> ah :-)
[17:10:57] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
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[18:13:14] <bj0ern> hi
[18:13:22] <wjp> hi
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[19:59:45] <wjp> there. all done.
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[19:59:58] <Colourless> what is all done?
[20:00:11] <wjp> you'll figure it out
[20:00:37] <Colourless> hmm
[20:00:53] <Colourless> you updated the news?
[20:01:09] <wjp> that was fast :-)
[20:01:26] <Colourless> i didn't even look. i just guessed :-)
[20:02:13] <wjp> ouch... a cross-site-scripting vulnerability in the default IIS 404 page :-)
[20:02:18] <wjp> (from bugtraq)
[20:03:31] <wjp> guess they tried to make it a bit too fancy... ah well
[21:17:30] <Colourless> time to go
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