#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Dec 2002 (GMT)

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[02:37:18] <Zxcvb> anyone know if ultima underworld is interpreted like ultima 7 is?
[03:01:37] <Kirben> Tryhttp://uwadv.sourceforge.net/
[03:03:29] <Zxcvb> only slightly more advanced than pentagram
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[11:34:59] <Colourless> hi
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[12:05:16] <Dominus> hi
[12:12:21] <Colourless> hi
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[16:15:36] <wjp> hi
[18:19:05] --> khalek has joined #exult
[18:19:34] <wjp> hi khalek :-)
[18:20:17] <khalek> heh I seemingly can't escape #scummvm people wherever I go :)
[18:20:44] <wjp> I'm more of an #exult person than a #scummvm person, though :-)
[18:20:52] <khalek> yeah
[18:21:25] <khalek> question.. it it possible to specify an external midi device with exult under linux?
[18:21:38] <khalek> I've only seen windows referenced...
[18:21:59] <wjp> hm, not sure
[18:22:09] <wjp> we default to timidity for MIDI
[18:22:20] <khalek> yeah
[18:22:21] <wjp> (or SDL_mixer's builtin timidity in the development branch)
[18:23:00] <khalek> but I'd rather use my mt32 directly rather than go through mt32->gm->timidity :)
[18:23:07] <wjp> :-)
[18:23:34] <wjp> you should ask Colourless when/if you see him
[18:23:48] * khalek nods
[18:23:56] <wjp> he's from .au too so you should theoretically be able to catch him online
[18:24:14] <khalek> heh well I'm semi nocturnal
[18:24:22] <khalek> its about 5:30am here
[18:24:53] <wjp> Colourless has a pretty nocturnal schedule too usually
[18:25:30] <wjp> although strangely he actually seems to be on a mildly 'normal' schedule the last month or so
[18:25:44] <wjp> I remember times when he left after me, and I'm in europe :-)
[18:26:45] * wjp is poking around the midi files a bit
[18:27:55] <wjp> I wonder how deeply embedded the mt32->gm conversion is
[18:28:18] <wjp> if you can avoid that it shouldn't be too hard to get the midi data to any external device
[18:30:16] <khalek> i think you can skip that by just selecting none as the patchset
[18:31:31] <wjp> as you can see, I'm not very familiar with the audio code :-)
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[18:35:02] <amon-re> Hey
[18:35:11] <wjp> khalek: does 'playmidi' play to your MT32?
[18:35:11] <wjp> hi
[18:35:42] <amon-re> Does Exult require OpenGL?
[18:35:55] <wjp> no, it doesn't
[18:36:02] <wjp> in fact, 1.0 doesn't even support it
[18:36:12] <amon-re> On my Mac, I seem to need OpenGL... it doesn't start when I don't have the extensions installed...
[18:36:16] <amon-re> Queer.
[18:36:18] <khalek> er pmidi does
[18:36:26] <khalek> which uses alsa
[18:36:42] <khalek> at least when I specify the external midi port anyway
[18:37:05] <wjp> khalek: we have a 'forked_player' midi driver that (I think) gets selected automatically when you disable timidity support in configure
[18:37:33] <wjp> khalek: it plays midi using 'playmidi -v -v -e', but that's easy to change in audio/midi_drivers/forked_player.cc
[18:37:40] <khalek> ah ok
[18:38:00] <wjp> amon-re: hm, you might want to ask Fingolfin about that if you see him
[18:38:20] <wjp> (our resident Mac developer)
[18:38:25] <amon-re> Ic.
[18:38:41] <amon-re> Okay... I don't have a graphics card, you see... I haven't had much luck playing games with OpenGL :(
[18:38:52] <wjp> I'm pretty sure you have a graphics card :-)
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[18:39:10] <khalek> heh
[18:39:24] <wjp> weird :-)
[18:39:30] <khalek> he could be using text to speech for irc.. :)
[18:39:40] <wjp> heh :-)
[18:40:05] <wjp> I haven't seen any PCs that could boot without a graphics card, I think
[18:40:12] <wjp> must be a special feature of macs :-)
[18:41:36] <khalek> pcs can boot fine without graphics cards
[18:42:35] <wjp> hm, really? I guess I'll have to try that sometime
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[18:42:54] <wjp> wb :-)
[18:42:56] <amon-re> Whoops.
[18:42:58] <amon-re> Hey
[18:43:04] <khalek> sometimes you have to fiddle with bios settings to make things work though
[18:43:10] <amon-re> The OpenGL installer quited all my apps...
[18:43:18] <wjp> how friendly of it :-)
[18:43:25] <amon-re> Well, in fact
[18:43:27] <amon-re> I just clicked "ok"
[18:43:34] <amon-re> Without realising, ehm
[18:43:38] <amon-re> Anyway, talked enough, I can't wait to play Ultima :D
[18:44:00] <wjp> are you using osx or classic, btw?
[18:45:18] <amon-re> Classic
[18:45:20] <amon-re> Grr, "User break at 13195B34 start_track__11Mac_QT_midiFP14XMIDIEventListb+00104
[18:45:21] <amon-re> "
[18:45:34] <amon-re> MIDI error during TuneSetHeader
[18:45:41] <amon-re> Hmm
[18:46:07] <amon-re> The debugger pops up
[18:46:33] <wjp> did you build exult yourself or are you using prebuilt binaries?
[18:46:39] <amon-re> Prebuilt
[18:47:03] <wjp> hm, which version? I think we haven't done os9 packages in quite a while
[18:47:10] <amon-re> 0.98
[18:47:30] <wjp> quite old, but I guess it should at least run
[18:47:49] <amon-re> Hmm
[18:47:50] <wjp> did exult create stdout.txt and stderr.txt files?
[18:47:55] <amon-re> Yeah
[18:47:58] <amon-re> I checked them
[18:48:04] <wjp> anything interesting in there?
[18:48:05] <amon-re> stderr.txt did not have any contents
[18:48:07] <amon-re> But ehm
[18:48:11] <amon-re> I'm rather new to this debugger
[18:48:23] <amon-re> And I don't know how I can continue with the app at an user break...
[18:48:29] <amon-re> (MacsBug)
[18:48:47] <wjp> usually if it breaks into a debugger on its own it's because of a fatal error
[18:49:08] <wjp> although 'user break' sounds weird
[18:49:29] <amon-re> Hmm
[18:49:35] <amon-re> I ran it againŠ same error
[18:50:05] <amon-re> Aha
[18:50:10] <amon-re> I just... had to press return
[18:50:12] <amon-re> :X
[18:50:25] <amon-re> Heh
[18:50:45] <amon-re> Should I switch to 16bit colours?
[18:50:53] <amon-re> :l
[18:51:06] <wjp> what are you running in now?
[18:51:34] <wjp> brb
[18:51:42] <amon-re> OS 9...
[18:51:51] <amon-re> And the colour scheme is incredibly funky
[18:53:04] <amon-re> Wow
[18:53:08] <amon-re> I have colours now :o
[18:55:49] <wjp> b
[18:55:54] <wjp> I meant what colour depth :-)
[18:56:12] <amon-re> Oh
[18:56:14] <amon-re> 256 :(
[18:56:25] <amon-re> Only at 640*480 I can handle 16bit colours :(
[18:56:37] <amon-re> And 640x480 is small... very small
[18:56:38] <amon-re> Anyway
[18:56:41] <amon-re> I think I'm leaving
[18:56:47] <amon-re> PLaying Ultima... fullscreen :)
[18:56:48] <wjp> so it's running now?
[18:56:55] <wjp> I guess it is then :-)
[18:56:58] <wjp> enjoy
[18:58:07] <amon-re> Yep
[18:58:13] <amon-re> Ah, no more scaling... better
[18:59:01] <amon-re> Aww, I love the graphics :)
[19:02:19] <amon-re> Hmm
[19:02:26] <amon-re> Exam maths tomorrow, I'll play some more later ;)
[19:02:28] <amon-re> cu.
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[19:49:40] <kuran> hey
[19:59:54] <wjp> hi
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[20:10:19] <wjp> hi
[20:12:43] <Zxcvb> hi
[20:13:38] <Zxcvb> i was wondering how complex usecode is compared to other graphical VMs like sci or agi
[20:14:04] <Zxcvb> oh, exult for the Z works fine in ultima 7, at least to the point of leaving trinsic
[20:14:40] <kuran> thanks guys
[20:14:44] <wjp> hm, I can't really compare them as I haven't seen sci or agi :-)
[20:14:55] <kuran> i bought U7 6years ago, and now I can finally play it on Mac OSX
[20:15:00] <wjp> kuran: you're very welcome :-)
[20:15:05] <wjp> glad you enjoy it
[20:15:10] <kuran> im eternally grateful :)
[20:15:34] <wjp> Zxcvb: U7's usecode is basically a reasonably simply bytecode language
[20:15:58] <wjp> no threading or anything. World-interaction is done by calling 'intrinsic' functions provided by the engine
[20:17:24] <wjp> s/simply/simple/
[20:17:32] <Zxcvb> so the real problem is figuring out those intrinsic functions
[20:17:44] <Zxcvb> and the fact that debugging a 32 bit real mode app is nearly impossible
[20:17:47] <wjp> that and which opcodes does what
[20:18:26] <wjp> s/does/do/
[20:18:33] <Zxcvb> is ultima 8 similar?
[20:18:33] <Zxcvb> just with different functions and opcodes?
[20:18:41] <wjp> u8 uses usecode for a lot more
[20:18:52] <wjp> also u8's usecode is (coop.) multithreaded
[20:19:11] <wjp> we've decoded most of it
[20:19:32] <wjp> some minor synchronization details we're not entirely sure about, but we've got most of it covered
[20:19:35] <Zxcvb> so it's just implementation?
[20:19:47] <Zxcvb> i noticed pentagram is still in the planning stages
[20:19:58] <wjp> I'm actually coding the usecode interpreter atm :-)
[20:20:45] <Zxcvb> i hear exult is mostly done
[20:21:06] <Zxcvb> just bugfixes and feature enhancements, as well as some options to do things like ultima 7/serpent isle
[20:21:16] <wjp> well, it's mostly done in the sense that most of the original's functionality has been implemented
[20:21:42] <wjp> we're planning some additional things (ExultStudio specifically), but it's going a bit slowly currently due to a general lack of time
[20:21:53] <Zxcvb> though some things like combat and stealing are not accurate
[20:22:00] <wjp> yes
[20:22:08] <wjp> they're a pain to get working correctly
[20:22:19] <wjp> that and we're not overly enthusiastic about the way the original handled those
[20:22:33] <Zxcvb> stealing appears to be like serpent isle, but sleeping people can detect stealing
[20:22:35] <wjp> which makes finding motivation to duplicate the original's behaviour hard to find :-)
[20:22:45] <wjp> ah, that would be a bug
[20:23:23] <Zxcvb> not as simple as if sleeping then ignore stealing
[20:24:02] <Zxcvb> wjp: the one where sleeping people can detect stealing?
[20:24:16] <wjp> well, that sounds like a bug to me
[20:24:30] <Zxcvb> wjp: so the current plan is serpent isle like, where anyone on the screen that is awake can detect stealing
[20:24:36] <Zxcvb> that makes more sense
[20:25:04] <Zxcvb> what about the past posting trick at buccaneers den?
[20:25:13] <wjp> I guess there should be LoS, but that's what I'd do, I think
[20:25:25] <wjp> past posting trick?
[20:25:42] <Zxcvb> go to bucanners den to the gambling house, and place 100 coins on any color
[20:25:57] <Zxcvb> start the wheel, then as it's about to start, open your inventory
[20:26:03] <Zxcvb> then place the coins on the winning number
[20:26:29] <wjp> did that work in the original?
[20:26:45] <Zxcvb> i call it the past posting trick because that is what casinos call it when you make/change a bet after the wheel is spun
[20:26:45] <Zxcvb> yes
[20:26:58] <Zxcvb> and if this one person was present, he would catch you and call the guards
[20:27:11] <wjp> hm
[20:27:12] <Zxcvb> that is, there was one person who monitored the games to prevent cheating
[20:27:20] <Zxcvb> haven't tried it in exult yet
[20:27:29] <wjp> did he also check if you saved while the wheel was spinning? :-)
[20:27:57] <Zxcvb> i belive so
[20:28:18] <Zxcvb> any moving of the coins to a winning number or adding coins after the wheel is spinning would get caught
[20:28:31] <Zxcvb> but, you just wait until the casino is empty
[20:28:42] <Zxcvb> i guess the games are controlled by magic, not by humans
[20:29:15] <wjp> yeah, good staff just costs too much ;-)
[20:29:21] <wjp> magic is much cheaper :-)
[20:29:50] <Zxcvb> also, is it fairly common in serpent isle to use the silver seed as a storage area
[20:30:06] <Zxcvb> so you have plenty of stuff like potions stocked up for when the banes attack
[20:30:19] <wjp> I have no idea
[20:31:59] <Zxcvb> any idea if the help spell in u7 ever stops working?
[20:32:24] <wjp> hm, I'd have to check the usecode for it
[20:32:27] <wjp> I doubt it, though
[20:32:38] <Zxcvb> one faq/walkthrough said it did
[20:32:42] <Zxcvb> others say it doesn't
[20:32:44] <wjp> so does the manual
[20:32:53] <wjp> (manual says it'll only work once)
[20:32:54] <Zxcvb> the manual says it works once
[20:32:58] <wjp> yes
[20:33:07] <Zxcvb> the faq says it stops working when the moongates get fried
[20:33:18] <Zxcvb> others say it always works, meaning i don't have to use the white stone
[20:34:03] <Zxcvb> are underworld and underworld 2 similar in their VM system?
[20:34:29] <wjp> I'm not sure
[20:34:42] <wjp> I haven't seen UW2's at all, and only a little of UW1's
[20:35:58] <Zxcvb> which ultimas use a VM system?
[20:36:09] <Zxcvb> aside from ultima 7/serpent isle, ultima 8, and uw1
[20:36:28] <wjp> don't know
[20:37:29] <wjp> I would say starting from U6, but that's just a guess
[20:37:39] <Zxcvb> would that include u9?
[20:37:55] <wjp> I think so, yes
[20:38:06] <wjp> but I don't have u9 on my HD at the moment to check
[20:38:17] <wjp> I seem to remember u9 having a usecode or similar file
[20:38:17] <Zxcvb> leaks like a sieve
[20:38:21] <Zxcvb> though 1.19f helps alot
[20:38:42] <Zxcvb> they had .flx
[20:38:55] <Zxcvb> nothing called usecode
[20:39:16] <Zxcvb> they do have a runtime/ and static/
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