#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Jan 2003 (GMT)

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[01:01:56] <slacked> hello!!
[01:03:07] <Kirben> Hi
[01:04:37] <slacked> How are things today?
[01:04:46] <slacked> work on exult going well?
[01:06:12] <Kirben> Nothing happening with Exult at the moment.
[01:08:04] <slacked> ahh k
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[01:21:10] <slacked> Hi Servus
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[04:41:57] <Servus_> hello
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[05:05:43] <EazyCheez> Hellooo
[05:05:48] <EazyCheez> FREENODE
[05:05:53] <EazyCheez> that's a cool name
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[05:46:13] <Servus_> hello
[05:46:17] <slacked> Hi there
[05:46:26] <Servus_> strange
[05:46:37] <Servus_> my tablet pen's erases text
[05:46:44] <Servus_> im keeping up a constructive conversation
[05:46:57] <slacked> hehe
[05:47:03] <Servus_> no one is talking _at all_
[05:47:20] <Servus_> and i dont think theres ANYONE else in my team except for Coren, and apparently he's never on
[05:47:21] <slacked> well
[05:48:02] <slacked> it happens
[05:48:44] <Servus_> im about to become lead *everything* :P
[06:00:59] <slacked> !!
[06:01:02] <slacked> everyone is deAD!
[06:01:14] <slacked> im trying to get assistance in the wine channels
[06:01:19] <slacked> no one responds :(
[06:06:07] <Servus_> hehe
[06:06:11] <Servus_> whats up?
[06:06:24] <Servus_> no one EVER responds in IRC... its the first time ive used it in years and now i _remember why_
[06:06:55] <slacked> heh
[06:06:58] <slacked> thats right
[06:07:02] <Servus_> im still making uw2 stuff :P
[06:07:08] <Servus_> ive made sooooo much stuff:O
[06:07:17] <slacked> in 3d studio?
[06:07:41] <Servus_> yes
[06:07:58] <Servus_> and if corben never shows up, i think that once im done, im gonna be the one programming it and mapping it too
[06:08:04] <Servus_> actually, i intend to
[06:09:54] <slacked> i never really got stuck into UW2
[06:10:04] <slacked> are you making a classic remake or something?
[06:10:41] <Servus_> no im not
[06:10:59] <Servus_> i intend to make everything from scratch, except for the conversations, but it will be uw2
[06:11:09] <Servus_> i just cant fathom making a "modern remake" and using the same old maps!
[06:11:37] <Servus_> sure it will be precisely the same architecture, but it really needs to use my 3d card, ya know? the same basic geometry, but slightly more complex :)
[06:12:55] <slacked> yeh
[06:12:58] <slacked> sounds good :)
[06:13:09] <slacked> it must be hard gettting all the details
[06:13:12] <slacked> there are alot
[06:13:24] <Servus_> ja there are
[06:13:30] <Servus_> it's a huge game, and i'd like some help :P
[06:18:22] <Servus_> knew i could get you to be quiet with that :)
[06:23:18] <slacked> hah
[06:23:20] <slacked> im not quiet
[06:23:28] <slacked> just talking to someone else about bloody wine!
[06:23:32] <slacked> that damn wine
[06:23:38] <slacked> it's so intermittent with it's errors
[06:26:40] <Servus_> wine
[06:26:42] <Servus_> hehehe
[06:26:58] <Servus_> and still the linux fanboys always give it as the prime reason to quit windows
[06:27:04] <Servus_> "it can run a few programs!"
[06:33:03] <slacked> it was great when it was running
[06:33:11] <slacked> but for some reason i stuffed it up
[06:35:56] <Servus_> cuz its crap;)
[06:40:23] <slacked> nah its actually quite ingenious
[06:40:36] <slacked> i couldnt see them same type of thing for windows
[06:40:48] <slacked> a linux emulator? maybe for shell but nothing else
[06:41:56] <Kirben> There are several, like Cygwin.
[06:42:11] <Kirben> http://www.cygwin.com/
[06:42:26] <Servus_> and vmware of course
[06:42:43] <slacked> yeh but cygwin needs linux to be installed
[06:42:53] <slacked> wine however can be totally independent of windows
[06:42:57] <Servus_> vmware is like having a separate box
[06:43:04] <Servus_> i ran Ultima 7 in Windows XP with vmware
[06:43:15] <slacked> Servus_, just admit, linux is way better
[06:43:21] <slacked> longlive opensource!
[06:43:24] <Servus_> no its not :P
[06:43:27] <slacked> hahaha
[06:43:30] <Servus_> it is for certain things
[06:43:44] <Servus_> for general consumers, a pretty and intuitive interface wins
[06:43:52] <slacked> well im pov, and if i can get stuff for free that actually is better than what i would normally pay for, then what do you think i would do?
[06:43:56] <Kirben> Cygwin is unix for windows, it doesn't need linux installed
[06:44:02] <Servus_> you cant expect every ditzy secretary to learn the linux command prompt:)
[06:44:22] <Kirben> People even have x/gnome/kde running thought it.
[06:44:30] <Kirben> through it I mean.
[06:44:40] <slacked> i think it reather defeats the purpose
[06:44:46] <slacked> running linux through windows
[06:44:51] <Servus_> well im not going to argue religion, but linux will never overtake windows in mass consumer acceptance
[06:45:03] <slacked> Servus I prefer it this way
[06:45:16] <slacked> it filters out most of the scum
[06:45:27] <Servus_> are you calling me scum? :P
[06:45:32] <slacked> no offence to you of course :P
[06:45:36] <Servus_> some of the most elitest people i've ever seen are the diehard linux fanboys
[06:45:50] <Kirben> I like open source for software but I wouldn't convert on linux or the like..
[06:45:51] <slacked> i hate that word 'fanboy'
[06:46:00] <Servus_> so do i, that's why its an insult :P
[06:46:19] <slacked> im not a fanboy
[06:46:23] <slacked> i just think it's better
[06:46:35] <Servus_> okay
[06:47:11] <Servus_> well use SDL and stop complaining about platforms:P
[06:47:22] <slacked> I use SDL libraries
[06:47:48] <slacked> and im not expecting people to use linux
[06:48:11] <slacked> if everyone used linux the way windows is, then linux would most certainly suck and probably succum to commermcialism
[06:48:31] <slacked> I hope windows continues to gain popularity
[06:48:40] <slacked> and linux stays about the same level
[06:48:54] <slacked> too many people = too many idiots
[06:48:59] <slacked> in my opinion
[06:49:00] <Servus_> what do you define as commercialism? how does commercialism make windows worse?
[06:49:08] <slacked> well for one
[06:49:10] <slacked> its not free
[06:49:14] <Servus_> sure it is :P
[06:49:17] <Servus_> next
[06:49:24] <Servus_> *grins*
[06:49:26] <slacked> and two... they have a nasty marketting scheme
[06:49:41] <slacked> ie: continually insulting open source development
[06:50:04] <Servus_> ah yes, this marketing giant that ive never seen negative marketing from
[06:50:06] <slacked> and three, non-free software can sometimes become nag-ware
[06:50:25] <slacked> in which case, windows XP is now nag-ware
[06:50:30] <Servus_> how so?
[06:50:41] <slacked> activation?
[06:50:52] <slacked> and every time you change your hardware you need to reactivate
[06:50:56] <Servus_> you cant expect MS to give away their main product for free
[06:51:00] <slacked> sure there are ways around it
[06:51:01] <Servus_> nah thats not true
[06:51:36] <slacked> I'm not saying they need give it away for free
[06:51:36] <Servus_> ive changed tons of hardware around and havent had to reactive it
[06:51:46] <slacked> have you changed your harddisk?
[06:51:54] <Servus_> and all that activating it means is giving your name and serial to MS... you dont even need to give a phone email or address
[06:51:56] <slacked> or put a new one in?
[06:52:00] <Servus_> yes i have
[06:52:06] <slacked> still nag-ware
[06:52:09] <Servus_> and ive changed CPU's
[06:52:14] <Servus_> and even motherboards
[06:52:46] <slacked> i just think if it's free and outdoes windows in necessities like usuability and performance, then of course im gonna use linux
[06:52:59] <slacked> it may not be user friendly
[06:53:00] <Servus_> but it fails on the first one:)
[06:53:03] <Kirben> activation isn't so bad, usually takes several hardware changes to trigger it and amount of changes allowed is reset every few months.
[06:53:13] <slacked> but thats where i come back to the argument, if it's popular it's gay
[06:53:15] <slacked> simple as that
[06:53:24] <Servus_> windows xp never ever crashes on me...
[06:53:29] <Servus_> its reliable, and rather fast
[06:53:31] <slacked> most things in life become crap when they are popular
[06:53:37] <Servus_> and i do know unix, and ive used and i do use it
[06:53:51] <Servus_> but i prefer windows
[06:54:00] <slacked> well vice versa
[06:54:03] <Servus_> a big reason why i prefer windows is because it has such a large application base
[06:54:15] <Servus_> now youre gonna say winex, but winex is a _hack_, a workaround, and thats bad
[06:54:18] <slacked> i used windows for over 9 years
[06:54:20] <Servus_> and it doesnt even run well
[06:55:03] <slacked> its not a workaround, more of an implementation
[06:55:18] <Servus_> you can twist words to support any opinion ;)(
[06:55:28] <slacked> it's an implementation of the win32 api
[06:55:35] <slacked> there for you don't need windows
[06:55:41] <slacked> and it's perfectly legal
[06:55:44] <Servus_> windows doesnt crash -- winex does
[06:55:56] <slacked> lol
[06:56:03] <Servus_> windows runs everything meant for windows -- winex doesnt
[06:56:22] * Servus_ shrugs
[06:56:25] <Servus_> this is pointless
[06:56:35] <slacked> i just like to use linux
[06:56:39] <Servus_> okay
[06:56:42] <slacked> and i find it better than windows and more stable
[06:56:46] <slacked> much more stable
[06:56:54] <slacked> actual linux hasnt crashed on me once
[06:57:05] <slacked> winex is the only app that has done it
[06:57:23] <Servus_> well the way i use my computer, it is simply not suitable for me
[06:58:30] <slacked> you're not one of these guys who thinks unix is a terroist tool are you?
[06:58:33] <slacked> hehe
[06:58:38] <Servus_> of course not
[06:58:41] <slacked> cause there are people who seriously think so
[06:58:48] <Servus_> linux is a terrorist tool, unix is a hippy tool
[06:58:56] <slacked> hah
[06:58:57] <slacked> :P
[06:59:18] <Servus_> owww pinched mah finger and its Linux's fault
[07:00:51] <DarkeZzz> Of *course* unix is a terrorist tool! Most governments us it don't they? Oh, they also use windows, that makes *it* a terrorist tool too! *gasp!* Quick! Bomb MS HQ! *grin*
[07:00:57] <DarkeZzz> s/us/use/
[07:01:26] <Servus_> George Bush is a terrorist tool
[07:01:29] <Servus_> he's a tool, all right
[07:02:18] <Servus_> im gunna go eat
[07:02:19] <Servus_> toodle
[07:05:36] * slacked sighs
[07:05:56] <slacked> I hate getting into fueded arguments with win32 users
[07:06:06] <slacked> It's just pointless
[07:19:32] <Servus_> i already said that
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[08:53:59] <Servus_> hello
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[09:52:51] <Servus_> hello
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[10:03:18] * Darke resists threatning his windows box with death, since it seems to be dying anyway. *grin*
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[10:06:59] <Servus_> humm
[10:07:12] <Servus_> direct3d doesnt want to do 3-pass multitexture blending X-(
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[10:13:12] <Servus_> ah-ha got it!
[10:13:24] <Servus_> sure proved telemachos wrong:>
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[12:57:28] <wjp> hi
[13:00:21] <Servus_> hello
[13:00:44] <Fingolfin> hi
[13:06:12] <Servus_> well bye
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[13:07:12] <Darke> Hi!
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[13:35:02] <Colourless> hi
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[13:43:25] <Colourless> modems suck
[13:48:42] * Darke seconds the motion!
[13:49:20] <Colourless> i'm not sure who it is worse for, since you have known things to be better :-)
[13:50:29] * Darke gets uptimes of 6 days when the 'doze box isn't being stupid, so his provider is nice. It still sucks though. *grin*
[13:51:25] <Colourless> assuming i wanted to chew up the phone line for that long, i could probably do that too
[13:54:50] * Darke tries to think of what else he might use the phone line for.
[13:55:14] <wjp> hi Colourless
[13:55:22] <Colourless> just try to think, how many, and what type of people live with you?
[13:56:39] <Colourless> hi wjp
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[13:59:42] * Darke ponders. One male, techie non-geek, with a mobile phone. *ponder* Sorry, still can't think of a use of a POTS line other then a net connection. *grin*
[14:00:15] <Colourless> you see :-)
[14:00:31] <Colourless> that was exactly my point
[14:01:24] <Colourless> question: why do you have a windows machine for your connection?
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[14:14:12] <Darke> 'Cause it's the machine my flatmate had the modem plugged into? *grin* I've got a spare machine, but we *were* planning on going onto adsl, so it wasn't worth fussing around to get everything working 'right' under linux. The problem was adsl got delayed from "it'll be here within the week" to "they said it'll be in after a month and a half?!? Telatra sucks!".
[14:14:57] <Colourless> sounds like classic Telstra service to me
[14:15:17] <Colourless> and you don't even live out in the bush :-)
[14:16:34] <Darke> Yeah. IINet said the line should be installed within the week, and had word from telstra to that effect. Until a couple of days later telstra came back and said, "Oh. The exchange is full. We've scheduled to expand it on Feb 7th. So hopefully after then." They weren't impressed and neither were we. *grin*
[14:17:01] <Darke> It's inner-city brisbane. CBD, we've even got a 4000 postcode, IIRC. *grin*
[14:17:22] <Colourless> ah, there you are Queensland :-)
[14:17:46] <Colourless> 7th!
[14:17:51] <Colourless> that's shocking
[14:18:13] * Darke seriously wonders how Telstra can justify that as a business decision, let alone customer service quality.
[14:19:01] <Colourless> you are in the middle of the city, the exchange should *never* be full
[14:20:36] <Darke> *nod* And no doubt it wouldn't have if telstra hadn't sacked two thirds of it's maintenence staff within 2 years of it being privatised.
[14:22:20] <Colourless> ziggy and the rest of the management need a swift kick in the ass for all the stupid things they have done to the company
[14:22:49] <Darke> Yepyep.
[14:22:52] <Colourless> if the public don't like your company, perhaps, just perhaps you are actually doing something wrong
[14:26:18] <Darke> You'd think they'd get the hint. Or care.
[14:27:18] <Colourless> i honestly think they don't care
[14:28:24] * Darke is pretty sure they don't care. He did work there after all at one point in time. *grin*
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[15:02:43] <wjp> wb :-)
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[15:04:31] * wjp watches people bounce in and out of the channel
[15:08:52] <Darke> Thanks. *sigh* I'm *really* not sure what on earth's happening here, really bad night for netsplits? *grin*
[15:09:20] <Colourless> no darke, it's just you using a bad server :-)
[15:09:35] <Colourless> as for me, well, got disconnected due to reasons unknown
[15:09:52] <Darke> Hmm... one moment then.
[15:09:53] <-- Darke has left IRC ("Inficio-Infeci-Infectum")
[15:09:56] <wjp> maybe the same reason that's causing the netsplits :-)
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[15:26:36] * wjp hmmms... how _do_ you install a gnome applet as non-root?
[15:26:52] <wjp> (just talking to myself a bit here :-) )
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[15:35:37] <EazyCheez> hello all!
[15:35:39] <wjp> hi
[15:35:45] <Colourless> hi
[15:36:06] <EazyCheez> how are my favorite open-source developers doing?
[15:37:03] <EazyCheez> Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers. Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers! YES!
[15:37:12] <EazyCheez> haw, Steve Ballmer's funny
[15:37:49] <Matt_O> whoa there eazycheez.. people around these parts don't know how to deal with wild enthusiasm very well <grins>
[15:38:01] <Matt_O> errr I mean...
[15:38:03] <Matt_O> hehe
[15:38:13] <EazyCheez> hehe
[15:38:37] * Matt_O gives EazyCheez some tranquilizers
[15:41:53] <EazyCheez> ahhh
[15:42:03] <EazyCheez> but you'd never heard of Steve Ballmer?
[15:48:51] <Matt_O> Microsoft guy?
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[15:55:04] <Darke> The creature that the phrase, "Dance, monkeyboy, dance!" was *made* for? *grin*
[15:55:50] <Matt_O> Darke: where is that quote from?
[15:56:14] <Darke> Can't remember actually.
[16:00:00] <wjp> going home; bbl
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[16:24:58] <Colourless> !!
[16:40:22] * Darke sweeps the spare exclamation marks off the channel and under the nearest rug, before wandering off to sleep. Night!
[16:40:42] <Colourless> night
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[17:00:02] <wjp> hi again
[17:08:13] <Colourless> wb
[18:38:55] * wjp grins; vulnerabilities in half-life clients posted to bugtraq
[18:39:33] <Colourless> what, half-life can be hacked... no! impossible!
[18:40:01] <wjp> considering the huge number of people playing half-life/counterstrike online, it's quite interesting :-)
[18:40:39] <wjp> some (linux and windows) servers are apparently rootable too
[18:41:41] <Colourless> i have seen a number of server guides, some for half-life, that say do not ever run them at root, or admin user levels
[18:42:00] <Colourless> you do not know what vulnerabilities they might have
[18:42:37] <Colourless> id software even had a competition to encourage people to find vulnerabilities in quake2
[18:43:28] <wjp> good :-)
[18:43:59] <wjp> now let's hope people actually follow that non-root/admin advice :-)
[18:44:37] <Colourless> there is probably some that haven't
[18:45:50] <Colourless> maybe running as root, but possibly at another user level with lots of privileges
[18:46:32] <Colourless> some of the guides i mentioned even had advise that you should actually create a limited users account just to run the servers in. something that has no access other than the game dirs itself
[18:47:49] <wjp> good advice :-)
[18:49:20] <Colourless> if you think about it, most servers/deamons should probably be like that *cough* hint to microsoft *cough*
[18:49:33] <wjp> heh :-)
[18:49:59] <matto|wookin> id had a competition to find vulnerabilities in quake2? I don't remember that
[18:50:01] <wjp> do most servers in win2k run as system/admin?
[18:50:19] <wjp> (or winxp, or whichever :-) )
[18:50:27] <matto|wookin> someone found an rcon vulnerability in quake2 fairly recently that would allow a modified client to get rcon from an unmodified server
[18:51:17] <Colourless> there are a number of different user levels that servies by default can run at. SYSTEM, LOCAL SERVICE and NETWORK SERVICE
[18:51:49] <Colourless> of course, the user level can be manually set for each Service
[18:53:19] <Colourless> as for what level IIS runs at, i'm not entirely sure
[18:53:36] <Colourless> all i know is that it's got like full access to the system
[18:57:01] <matto|wookin> hehe
[18:57:05] <matto|wookin> IIS.. hehe
[19:08:38] * wjp has a bit of a problem... should I finish reading Wheel of Time 7 (and then 8 and 9), or should I just jump to 10 (which I just got), since I already read 1-9 twice anyway :-)
[19:12:41] <Colourless> i found when doing such things, you really loose all interest in re-reading the older books while a new one is waiting, begging....
[19:15:00] <wjp> indeed :-)
[19:15:11] <wjp> although for the story I should really finish 7-9 first
[19:15:37] <Colourless> thats a lot of pages...
[19:15:49] <Colourless> now, you have already read those haven't you
[19:16:14] <wjp> twice, yes :-)
[19:19:19] <Colourless> your problem is pretty minor then :-)
[19:20:39] <wjp> :-)
[19:20:53] <wjp> I could of course read 10 now, and then go back to 7-10 afterwards
[19:21:01] <wjp> :-)
[19:22:57] <matto|wookin> wjp : I didn't realize that 10 was even out
[19:23:37] <wjp> 3 days now, although Fingolfin already had it before christmas somehow (*grumble*) :-)
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[19:28:37] <matto|wookin> fingolfin had it before Christmas? why that no good ...
[19:29:05] <matto|wookin> 3 days.. was that a worldwide release date? (ie is that how long it's been out in the USA too?)
[19:29:46] <wjp> I think amazon.com said 7 jan too
[19:33:16] <matto|wookin> strange that they missed Christmas ...
[19:35:35] <wjp> heh, amazon.com discounted it from $29.95 to $20.97
[19:35:44] <wjp> meaning the price went below the mark for free shipping :-)
[19:36:24] <wjp> I wonder if that discount actually makes it cheaper :-)
[19:37:45] <matto|wookin> I have a Barnes and Noble store a block away from my work
[19:37:48] <matto|wookin> forget Amazon.. hehe
[19:38:40] <wjp> :-)
[19:51:51] <matto|wookin> aarrrrrr lechuck
[19:52:28] <wjp> lechuck? where? *hides*
[19:52:41] <matto|wookin> I meant to type that in scummvm hehe... that lechuck bot
[19:53:15] * wjp peeks into #scummvm
[20:20:52] <Colourless> goodbye
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[22:26:12] <Fingolfin> yo
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[23:06:06] <wjp> hi Max
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