#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Jun 2002 (GMT)

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[04:17:44] <Kirben> my first huge commit, hope I didn't make a mistake this time.
[04:18:16] * Darke crosses his claws.
[04:19:12] <Kirben> Now I can release some new 0.99.2cvs snapshots
[04:20:23] * Darke nods.
[04:48:11] <Kirben> hmm why am I missing from new pentagram project ?
[04:48:30] <Darke> Eh? How do you mean?
[04:48:45] <Kirben> I don't have access
[04:49:27] <Kirben> Was going to try pentagram on gcc 3.1 next and than commit changes.
[04:49:48] <Darke> Ah. You probably just haven't harassed wjp for access then. *grin* The rest of us did.
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[10:59:28] <wjp> hi
[11:03:32] <Kirben> Hi wjp
[11:03:46] <Kirben> wjp: could you add me to the new pentagram project page ?
[11:04:02] <wjp> of course, I'll do it right away
[11:04:41] <wjp> is your SF username 'kirben' too?
[11:04:46] <Kirben> yes
[11:05:21] <wjp> hm, what "role" do you want?
[11:05:28] <wjp> packager?
[11:06:06] <Kirben> yes that is fine
[11:07:26] <wjp> ok, you're in :-)
[11:07:33] <Kirben> thanks
[11:07:41] <wjp> no, thank you :-)
[11:26:05] <Kirben> hmm why not docs folder in old pentagram ?
[11:28:41] <wjp> the docs folder is in the 'new' pentagram
[11:29:07] <wjp> we didn't want to keep a possibly outdated version of the docs floating around
[11:29:44] <Kirben> ok will adjust makefiles than.
[11:51:09] <Kirben> hmm I have missed several pentagrma updates.
[11:52:03] <Kirben> a fold.exe compile fails:
[11:52:04] <Kirben> g++ -O2 -Wno-long-long -DHAVE_MIDI -DNEED_SNPRINTF_ONLY -DHAVE_SSTREAM -DPENTAGRAM -DDEBUG -DSIZEOF_SHORT=2 -DSIZEOF_INT=4 -I./tools -I./viewer -I./files -I./audio -I./headers -I./conf -I. -I./sdl/include -c -o fold.o ./tools/fold.cc
[11:52:04] <Kirben> tools/fold.cc:372: parse error before `void'
[11:52:04] <Kirben> tools/fold.cc:372: missing ';' before right brace
[11:52:04] <Kirben> tools/fold.cc: In constructor `PushVarNode::PushVarNode()':
[11:52:05] <Kirben> tools/fold.cc:362: parse error before `;' token
[11:52:07] <Kirben> tools/fold.cc:362: `BYTES' undeclared (first use this function)
[11:55:46] <Kirben> I see now, another conflicting define.
[12:01:14] <Kirben> I just renamed VOID to FOLD_VOID.
[12:01:48] <wjp> hm, I'd probably rename all the vartype constants to VT_VOID, VT_BYTE, VT_WORD, etc..
[12:11:05] <Kirben> done
[12:12:28] <Kirben> did both var and data types
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[12:19:05] <Fingolfin> hi
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[12:19:25] <Kirben> Hi Fingolfin
[12:19:51] <Kirben> Fingolfin: could you add second snapshots section to web page ?
[12:20:07] <Fingolfin> why don't you do it, it's simple :-)
[12:20:32] <Fingolfin> i.e. I can guide you thru it
[12:20:43] <Kirben> My raw html writing isn't that good.
[12:21:25] <Kirben> let me check out web module
[12:21:26] <Fingolfin> there is no HTML involved
[12:21:37] <Kirben> there isn't ?
[12:21:42] <Fingolfin> check out the web module, and edit content/download.dat
[12:26:28] <Kirben> ok I think I have got it right now.
[12:27:45] <Kirben> ooops did it twice
[12:28:54] <Kirben> Does it look ok ? http://exult.sourceforge.net/download.php
[12:34:33] <wjp> hm, the 1.1.x snapshots don't seem to show up
[12:36:55] <Kirben> try a refresh
[12:37:16] <Kirben> only just uploading them now.
[12:37:37] <wjp> ah, ok
[12:37:50] <Kirben> The main one (Exult) has to wait for new installer
[12:39:20] <Kirben> or is a static sdl_mixer compile possible ?
[12:47:56] <Kirben> Those .dat files sure make updates easy :)
[12:50:38] <Fingolfin> Kirben: thx :-)
[12:50:41] <wjp> hm, static sdl_mixer compile should be possible, yes
[12:51:10] <Kirben> ok will release exult 1.1.0cvs snapsht soon if it works for me
[12:57:57] <Kirben> Will pentagram have web page soon ? would make more sense to put new pentagram snapshots there.
[12:58:27] <wjp> webpage... umm... yes... 'soon' :-)
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[13:03:38] <Colourless> hi
[13:03:50] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
[13:09:23] <wjp> hi
[13:12:27] <Colourless> someone hacked exultbot... there is now a 'yesterday' link at the tops of the pages ;-)
[13:13:34] <Colourless> of course it seems i'm about a day late finding out :-)
[13:14:32] <wjp> heh :-)
[13:22:06] <Kirben> no luck with static sdl_mixer here, just get a stack of undefined errors.
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[13:26:06] <wjp> hm pity :/
[13:26:59] <Kirben> nevermind
[13:27:01] <Kirben> it worked
[13:27:12] <Kirben> just had to change the order of sdl links
[13:27:27] <Colourless> such is the greatness of gcc :-)
[13:28:02] <wjp> better than MSVC's "have to pay $800 just to get an optimizer" ;-)
[13:28:04] <Colourless> it is a real problem that should be fixed. it doesn't handle dependancies between libraries very well
[13:28:27] <wjp> true, it could use a second pass while linking libs
[13:28:37] <Colourless> yes... msvc is just a tad expensive... but it's a commercial program... such things are expected
[13:28:54] <Colourless> but gcc... an open source program... i would have though the problem would be gone :-)
[13:29:24] <Colourless> note to self: to many ...'s can be really annoyinh
[13:32:00] <wjp> hm, we should explain the two different snapshots somewhere
[13:32:48] <Colourless> and make sure to explain that the 1.1.0cvs snapshots do NOT contain thte version 1 code
[13:35:08] <Kirben> hmm what is es version check meant to do ?
[13:35:25] <Colourless> check for protocol changes
[13:35:30] <wjp> it prevents incompatible versions of exult and ES from connecting
[13:35:40] <Kirben> I can still launch an es 0.99.2cvs wih exult 1.1.0cvs.
[13:35:56] <Colourless> yeah, there hasn't been any changes that would stop the 2 from connecting
[13:35:59] <wjp> then nothing changed in the communication between exult and ES since the branch yet
[13:36:35] <Kirben> wait nevermind, it get disabled a few seconds later.
[13:36:56] <Colourless> you should update the win32 makefiles (for 0.99.2) to not compile exult studio support
[13:37:32] <Colourless> i was actually thinking of suggesting that all exult studio related things should be removed from the devel-1-00 branch
[13:38:38] <Colourless> it thing that it will just tend to cause confusion if both can still support exult studio, but they are incompatible
[13:40:16] <Kirben> but if people are trying to create work in es shouldn't we make a fairly stable es available ?
[13:43:36] <Colourless> you'd have to talk to jeff about it, but as far as I know, es developement is only going to occur in the main branch. nothing is going to be done to es in the devel-1-00 branch as that is only meant to be used to bug fix exult for the v1.0 release that is planned real soon now
[13:48:12] <wjp> ok, how's this:
[13:48:17] <wjp> If you checked our download page recently, you may have noticed that we have two sets of development snapshots now: a 1.0.x (stable) snapshot, and a 1.1.x (unstable) snapshot.
[13:48:21] <wjp> The 1.0.x branch will become our 1.0 release soon, hopefully, and we will mainly be fixing any remaining bugs in this branch. We recommend using the 1.0.x snapshots for playing and testing Exult.
[13:48:26] <wjp> The 1.1.x branch is meant mostly as a 'developer playground' at the moment. We are making some very destabilizing changes to this branch, like a rewritten usecode interpreter and new audio code. We do not recommend using the 1.1.x snapshots for normal playing.
[14:01:05] <Kirben> sounds good
[14:06:38] <Colourless> i agree
[14:52:01] <wjp> hm, what's the status of Exult Studio on the various windowses?
[14:52:22] <Colourless> win2k, winnt4 = no. others = ok
[14:53:39] <Colourless> i could probably force 2k and nt4 to use the 9x coms method. that might work around the issue that's causing the coms to fail
[15:07:42] <Colourless> wjp, are you going to put that bit about the different snapshot v's on the download page?
[15:08:45] <Colourless> also, i think the 1.0.x branch comment should have 'We strongly recommend' rather that 'We recommend'
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[15:09:35] <oube> I've found a reproducable lockup.. errr.. least i think its locked up....
[15:10:33] <oube> When I go to get on the ship with hawk at the Sleeping Bull in.. I get on the boat.. and can't move.. and he jsut stands on the dock and walks around
[15:10:51] <Colourless> what time of day?
[15:11:05] <oube> oh dunno.. what time does he sail?
[15:11:24] <oube> probably around noon.. not sure though...
[15:11:42] <Colourless> there was a known issue where one of the passengers was asleep and would cause the game to seem to lock up when going to sail
[15:11:47] <oube> no its 10:47
[15:12:14] <Colourless> do all of the passengers board the ship?
[15:12:16] <oube> i see 3 passengers and a parrot.. who do i need?
[15:12:25] <oube> no they're all standing on the docks.. they never get on the ship
[15:12:26] <Colourless> sound right
[15:12:33] <Colourless> hmm
[15:13:28] <oube> I might of moved the ship.. i can't remember.. think i might have sailed it and brought it back?:) I don't think so though.. think i saved.. and didnt' do it in the end...
[15:13:43] <Colourless> you should be able to sail it
[15:13:46] <Colourless> shouldn't i mean
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[15:14:12] <Colourless> submit a bug report
[15:14:18] <oube> well i could.. i saidled it to a beach. and then they said.. this isn't your ship when i tried to get back on:)
[15:14:36] <oube> and i was stuck on that beach.. well not really coz there was a teleporter.. but hte ship would have been stuck
[15:15:06] <Colourless> hmm strange. you shouldn't have been able to sail on the ship. what version of si are you using?
[15:15:34] <Colourless> what version of exult?
[15:15:54] <oube> i got them to get on:) hehhe... alls i did was open the far gang plank:) heh:)
[15:16:06] <oube> before getting on
[15:16:12] <oube> umnmm...
[15:16:32] <oube> .98rc1
[15:16:49] <oube> hahah it left hawk behind:)
[15:16:57] <oube> he fell off the gang plank:)
[15:17:13] <Colourless> you do know, that 0.99.1RC2 is no out
[15:17:15] <Colourless> s/no/now/
[15:17:27] <Colourless> please get it now!
[15:17:29] <oube> yeah.. will it work with the old saves? might install it
[15:17:59] <Colourless> giving us bug reports with old version is not useful
[15:18:38] <oube> ok.. do you i have to restart my game from scratch though? to consider this a bug in this one if it still happens?
[15:18:53] <Colourless> no, you can use your old game
[15:19:12] <Colourless> if it still occurs submit a bug report on sourceforge.
[15:19:39] <Colourless> http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=2335
[15:20:35] <Colourless> wjp: about the news, add a linebreak between the 2 news items
[15:21:18] <oube> on a related note.. i just stopped in the middle of the ocean and he said its moonshade:).. k compiling new version
[15:21:37] <Colourless> sounds like your si is kind of screwed up
[15:21:49] <Colourless> i would recommend you start over
[15:21:55] <oube> i think its coz he fell off the boat
[15:22:11] <Colourless> or at least continue from an earlier save
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[17:41:24] <Colourless> i guess you now have an excuse why you can't update the docs... :-)
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[17:42:06] <Dominus> yeah, the stitches come of in ten days
[17:42:53] * Darke icks for another reason. They've rolled back the chan/nickserv databases to May 7th? That must have been an impressive 'kline' problem...
[17:44:16] <Colourless> i guess if you wanted to, you could now tell some somewhat 'colourful' stories about how you got this injury :-)
[17:44:33] <Dominus> so, befor i read another twenty posts to ml and another 93 on the cvs ml, is Colourless midi code back?
[17:45:31] <Colourless> as far as I know yes.
[17:45:42] <Dominus> for the record, I'm temporally disabled because of a domestic accident, which resulted in me having 6 stitches on my lower right wrist
[17:46:41] <Dominus> befor anyone asks, I like to listen to Suicidal Tendencies but do not have such tendencies
[17:46:45] <Dominus> :-)
[17:47:05] <Dominus> writing only with the left hand is annoying
[17:47:32] <Colourless> truth be told dominus' accident occured in his gf's bathroom... doing what exactly, he hasn't said:-)
[17:47:50] <Darke> Consider it a 'hint' to improve your ambidexterous tendancies. *grin*
[17:48:13] <Dominus> yeah
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[17:53:42] <Darke> Hi.
[17:53:49] <wjp> hi
[17:55:27] <Colourless> hi
[17:55:36] <Colourless> or wb as it might be :-)
[17:56:16] <wjp> :-)
[17:56:39] * wjp would've been back earlier, but dinner got in the way :-)
[18:01:50] <Dominus> what does fold.exe do?
[18:02:44] <wjp> Darke: oh, Kirben and I changed some names of constants in fold.cc
[18:02:54] <wjp> there were apparently some name clashes
[18:03:12] <Darke> It's the decompiler. The current cvs version only works from classes 5 to about 120 atm, but I'm slowly working on getting the opcodes added. *grin*
[18:03:24] <Darke> wjp: Thanks. I noticed in the logs.
[18:03:47] <Dominus> okeydokey
[18:05:31] <Colourless> Darke: i assigned you the task of writing the pentagram engine, but i see you doing anything but that
[18:07:06] <Darke> Of course! *grin* But I can't do that until we've actually got all the opcodes documented correctly. *cough*
[18:24:37] <Dominus> what's the correct tag for the stable branch?
[18:25:06] <Colourless> devel-1-00
[18:28:44] <Dominus> ok, checked out fine
[18:44:52] <wjp> hehe, somebody attached the same comment to a bug report _3_ times, with 10 minute intervals :-)
[18:45:19] <Dominus> he he
[18:45:54] <Colourless> this comment was?
[18:46:50] <wjp> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=566890&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[18:49:11] <Colourless> hmmm strange. but it's by a mac users, what else would you expect?
[18:49:25] * Colourless would get ready to duck, but Fingolfin isn't here :-)
[18:52:59] <wjp> hehe :-)
[18:54:09] <Colourless> i bet all that occured is they used back in their browser and it said to resend form data, and they said yes
[18:54:46] * wjp nods
[19:46:27] <wjp> 2nd bugreport in the tracker for being unable to start exult in OSX
[19:51:48] * wjp performs the Fingolfin-summoning ritual
[20:01:07] * Darke slowly fixes fold.cc and wonders why on earth VOID/BYTE/WORD/whatever are doing #defined in the global space anyway? It seems very braindamaged to me.
[20:02:43] <wjp> well, it's generally a bad idea to use these single-common-word constants, for exactly this reason
[20:05:11] <Darke> Agreed. I deliberately scoped them both inside a defined enum and inside a class for this reason, since I figured someone might have enumerated or done something like that. It didn't occur to me that they might have done something _really_ stupid and #defined them though.
[20:06:57] * Darke is just griping because he's written perfectly standard and completely correct code, which is being broken by someone else's stupidity. Probably MS's since it only seems to occur on windows. Feel free to ignore him. *grin*
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[20:31:09] <Fingolfin> yo
[20:31:10] <wjp> yay, Fingolfin summoning ritual worked :-)
[20:31:11] <Darke> wjp: It took a while, but it looks like that ritual of yours worked. *grin*
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[20:31:12] <wjp> hi :-)
[20:31:13] <Fingolfin> so I forgot to static link SDL, ouch
[20:31:15] <Dominus> hey ho Fingolfin
[20:31:15] <Darke> Hi!
[20:31:23] <Fingolfin> should I just upload a new binary, or also change the version?
[20:31:33] <Fingolfin> <g>
[20:32:12] <Dominus> not again :-)
[20:32:33] <wjp> just uploading a new binary like last time would be ok, I guess
[20:32:58] <wjp> adding an 'a' like for RC1 to the filename might be helpful
[20:33:15] <Colourless> hehe
[20:34:00] <Colourless> darke: ms uses BYTE, WORD and DWORD
[20:34:10] <Colourless> and probably VOID too
[20:34:39] <Colourless> they are the standard types used by Windows
[20:34:44] <Darke> Colourless: Thanks. I had a sneaky suspicion, but I thankfully can't remember most of the horrors of the MFCs. *grin*
[20:36:30] <Colourless> 17 seconds left on my download of the pocket pc 2002 sdk... it's just over 60 mb... but i still need to download the embedded visual tools which is over 300 mb :-)
[20:36:53] <Dominus> phew
[20:37:10] <Dominus> you are going for a pocket pc version?
[20:37:17] <Darke> AKA, it'll take a while. *grin* I wonder if it'll run under wine?
[20:37:18] <wjp> hm, do you know anybody on broadband living nearby?
[20:37:25] <wjp> might be worth getting someone to mail you a CD
[20:37:29] <Dominus> probably not for exult, only for pentagram
[20:37:57] <Colourless> i'm doing this for exult
[20:38:07] <Dominus> he he
[20:38:54] <Colourless> people were requesting it, so i just decided to download it... regardless of how long it's going to take. if i'm not doing anything with the internet i just continue the download a bit
[20:39:05] <Colourless> i'm in no hurry to get it down
[20:41:45] <Colourless> from memory i've downloaded bigger before. the u9 demo was really huge, and i downloaded that with a modem :-)
[20:42:20] <Colourless> actually. i downloaded that using 2 modems :-)
[20:42:21] * wjp downloaded a 600Mb linux .iso once while I was still on modem
[20:42:37] <wjp> took me a couple of nights of full-time downloading
[20:43:22] <Colourless> if you are willing to wait, you can download huge amounts over modems
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[20:44:02] <Colourless> a friend of mine quite regularily downloads in excess of 2 gb a month over modem
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[20:48:51] <Fingolfin> ok I just modified the update.sh script in htdocs to also do a chgrp exult on all files
[20:48:59] <Fingolfin> now only Kirben and Dominus have to run it :-)
[20:50:17] <Dominus> how the hell did I have one file left that is not changed accordingly ?
[20:50:19] <Dominus> :-)
[20:50:25] <Dominus> will do now
[20:50:38] <wjp> hm, how about creating a release checklist?
[20:51:03] <wjp> with these little things like linking statically in MacOSX, creating the source .tar.gz with a couple of extra configure option to create a correct .spec file...
[20:51:07] <wjp> tiny annoying things like that...
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[20:59:05] <Darke> Hello again. For the record, xchat 1.9.0 is rather icky. *grin*
[20:59:29] <Fingolfin> wjp: good idea I guess...
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[21:00:00] <Fingolfin> wjp: it should contain a full step-by-step list, IMHO... including things like "make sure to update the versions in these places: <list of places>"; edi tthe NEWS file, etc.
[21:00:16] * wjp nods
[21:00:34] <wjp> wb Darke
[21:01:45] <wjp> ok, so, what needs to be done?
[21:02:00] <wjp> 1: update version numbers in configure.in, Makefiles
[21:02:32] <wjp> 2: update copyright date in keyactions.cc for the about dialog :-)
[21:02:44] <wjp> 3: update NEWS
[21:03:28] <Colourless> didn't someone say the other days our releases are becomming more and more sloppy? :-)
[21:03:31] <wjp> 4: update version numbers in OS-specific files: beos/exult.rsrc, ...?
[21:03:43] <wjp> yes, I vaguely seem to remember someone saying that :-)
[21:05:14] <wjp> i: configure source release on a platform with gimp-devel installed, with configure --enable-exult-studio --enable-gimp-plugin --prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/bin --datadir=/usr/share
[21:05:39] <Fingolfin> wjp: for 4, a full list needs to be maded, of course some require the porters to update it, e.g. I need to fix the OS X version... well on the long run it might be better if I use a resource based format for the Mac OS 9 versions strings, too ::-) should be possible
[21:06:44] <wjp> j (j < i): make sure all new data files/doc files have been added to the dist part of the Makefile.am files
[21:06:56] <Colourless> idea for pentagram: put the version number into a header so we don't have to muck around so much
[21:07:03] <Darke> i+1: Make sure all the copyright headers in the source files are copyrighted up to the current year. *cough*
[21:07:15] <wjp> j+1: make sure all these files have been added to the file lists of the relevant package in exult.spec.in
[21:07:24] <Colourless> Darke: I said that needed to be done before the release
[21:07:25] <wjp> Darke: i+1 is too late for that :-)
[21:07:37] <Darke> s/i+1/i-1/
[21:07:47] <wjp> and I think we should only update these years when we actually modify the files
[21:08:08] * Darke sees half a dozen files last (C)ed in 1999 to JSF.
[21:08:09] <wjp> (although updating the copyright year could also count as modifying the files ;-) )
[21:08:25] * Colourless is utterly confused about what is being said here
[21:08:41] <wjp> but for 1.0 it might be nice to get all copyright statements -2002
[21:08:50] * Darke was thinking of spending a couple of hours sitting down and updating _all_ the (C) dates to 2002 one day.
[21:08:51] <Colourless> many of the files have been modified after their copyright date
[21:09:30] <Darke> That's the problem. *grin*
[21:09:35] <Colourless> Darke: as long as fingolfin isnt the one doing it... and as long as he's not using his os 9 cvs, i don't think anyone would have a problem with that :-)
[21:09:49] <wjp> Darke: from the forum: "P.S Darke, I think its sexy when you grin ;)" LOL
[21:10:04] <Fingolfin> hmmm
[21:10:16] <wjp> I think the problem is more the os 9 cvs than Fingolfin :-)
[21:10:23] <Fingolfin> you know, i can use that particular CVS client under OS X, too <eg>
[21:10:36] <wjp> ok, I take that last statement back :-)
[21:10:40] * Darke laughs.
[21:10:54] * Fingolfin has a really bad character, MUwaahahaha
[21:11:10] * Darke is tempted to reply to that forum post...
[21:11:22] <Fingolfin> finally, WoT 7 arrived, I can continue reading, only I have no time. Will attend JabberConf 12th-14th
[21:12:13] <Colourless> Darke: you know you must
[21:12:23] <Colourless> you will disappoint me if you dont :-)
[21:13:25] * Darke wonders if he should dissapoint Colourless. *grin*
[21:16:50] <Darke> For reference, this is a rather nifty utility (minds out of gutter, is a compressed file extrator 'wrapper' perl script *grin*): http://sourceforge.net/projects/sex/
[21:17:20] <wjp> nice project name, yes :-)
[21:17:52] <Darke> http://sex.sf.net/ has a rather 'badly' phrased 'there is no page here' page. *grin*
[21:17:57] <Colourless> such as name is asking for problemns
[21:18:34] <Darke> Problems like being blocked by almost every filter program in existance? *grin*
[21:18:45] <Colourless> yes, problems like that :-)
[21:20:03] <Darke> Admittedly there 'no page here' page could have been worse, but still. *grin*
[21:31:31] <Colourless> would you just look at the time. i really should be going
[21:31:39] <wjp> g'night
[21:31:43] <Darke> Night!
[21:31:49] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("cya")
[21:40:25] <wjp> hm, I have to go too
[21:40:27] <wjp> bye
[21:40:29] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[21:52:16] * Darke deliberately replies to that post after Colourless has left. Muhahahaha.
[22:32:42] <Dominus> I don't know where I've been since Darke came back but it seems that I didn't miss much :-)
[22:35:33] <Darke> Hmm... not much. *grin*
[22:36:44] * Darke denies being the cause of any 'noise' in the signal. *noddle*
[22:37:53] <Dominus> what made me say that actually was that normally my client flashes in the taskbar thrice when someone speaks up
[22:38:18] <Dominus> but I got no flashing for both channels I'm currebtly on
[22:38:59] * Darke ahhs.
[22:39:11] --> freedman has joined #Exult
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[22:39:34] <freedman> Ah, nice and quiet:-)
[22:39:38] <Dominus> the last thing I remembered was you rejoining after pronblems with your client or so
[22:39:45] <Dominus> ah, hi jeff
[22:39:51] <freedman> Hi
[22:40:07] <Dominus> I'm learning one finger typing with my left hand :-)
[22:40:09] <Darke> Hi! Relatively. *grin*
[22:40:29] <freedman> Maybe you could use voice recognition:-)
[22:40:53] <Dominus> so, jeff, what will be the next major change in the exult engine?
[22:41:09] <freedman> Ask Ryan:-)
[22:41:26] <Dominus> voice-recog: no, I'm always watching tv far too loud
[22:41:27] <freedman> I notice the users are clambering for party-formation again
[22:41:53] * Darke noticed also. *grin*
[22:42:01] <Dominus> yeah, combat and party formation is high on the always returning ๖ist
[22:42:07] <freedman> ...It's starting to get a little annoying.
[22:42:08] <Dominus> list
[22:42:41] <freedman> I'll probably keep working on ES, mostly.
[22:42:50] <Dominus> combat will never be satisfactory unless we totally scrap u7's combat and do a turn based one :-)
[22:43:05] <Darke> (party formation) Agreed. And even if we do make a change, someone will complain about it anyway. *grin*
[22:43:07] <freedman> Dom: Yes, and they'll still complain:-)
[22:43:43] <Fingolfin> hi jeff!
[22:43:47] <freedman> Hi!
[22:44:30] <Dominus> about ES: I noticed your latest addition with the unused npcs- great, I think I asked for sth like this ages ago :-)
[22:45:19] <freedman> Yes. There's a flag ('iflag2') that I only figured out recently. It really means 'unused' when it's 0. And it turns out that dozens of the NPC's in BG are unused.
[22:46:01] <Dominus> also on ES, I'm not sure if you answered ryans qestion, about es and the stable branch
[22:46:08] <Dominus> cool
[22:46:44] <freedman> I tried to respond, but it bounced for some reason. I said we shouldn't bother with ES on the 1.00 branch.
[22:47:13] <Dominus> I feel like that as well
[22:48:03] <freedman> I'd like to just start using it again: Finish the FAQ subplot, then try to do another mod.
[22:48:04] <Dominus> we then could disable ES support in compiling that branch (KIRBEN listen to this!)
[22:48:34] <Dominus> a totally new mod or extension of this one?
[22:49:10] <freedman> Not sure. It'd probably be a good idea for me to try building some new terrain so I'll see the bugs and limitations:-)
[22:49:38] <freedman> Actually, I'd REALLY like to write something completely new and sell it.
[22:49:46] <Dominus> I`d still like to see support for additional maps in ES
[22:50:17] <freedman> Yes, that would be a powerful addition. I still don't know how hard it would be.
[22:50:27] <Dominus> new game and selling: that woul be nice
[22:51:27] <Dominus> Along with additional maps I would like a new save feature that saves changes not in the whole file but more like a diff of the original file
[22:51:29] <freedman> :-) Just don't ask me how.
[22:52:05] <freedman> Dom: You mean for the shapes files? Or the map?
[22:52:09] <Dominus> I'm really not pushing for additional maps - just reminding you and give you additional problems to think of
[22:52:30] <Dominus> for all the files thatES reads in the static dir
[22:52:47] <Dominus> like u7chunk, shapes, faces, infos and so on
[22:52:54] <freedman> Yes. That could be an option.
[22:53:20] <Dominus> that would make patches more "legal"
[22:54:17] <freedman> Yes. An easy thing to do right away might be just to change the names of some of these.
[22:54:51] <Dominus> as soon as you implement additional maps I would like to do the "real" sf -island on a new map
[22:55:32] <freedman> How about doing it as a whole new game, with new graphics?
[22:55:34] --> Kirben has joined #exult
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[22:55:44] <freedman> Hi Kirben
[22:55:51] <Dominus> and I'd also like to do a new game with u7 graphics (both bg, si), to play u4
[22:56:03] <Dominus> hi Kirben
[22:56:27] <freedman> That would be a really reasonable thing to do (as long as EA doesn't complain).
[22:57:08] <Dominus> and it wouldn't be "too" hard as most of the stuff is in there
[22:57:15] <freedman> What I still haven't figured out is how to do U7-style graphics like buildings and people.
[22:57:32] <Dominus> save for additional barges like a balloon
[22:57:55] <Dominus> the penguin statue was really hard to do
[22:57:57] <Kirben> Hi
[22:58:30] <Dominus> to have it remotely in the right perspective
[22:58:46] <freedman> ES still needs a barge edit-box. Shouldn't be too hard, as there are only a few things to set.
[22:59:28] <Dominus> yeah, one of my plans for sf island would be a "black" ship
[22:59:31] <freedman> Dom: I've been wondering if they used a 3D modeller, then hand-painted the results.
[23:00:46] <Dominus> the graphics for u7 are really astonishing when you try to paint them yourself
[23:01:07] <Dominus> btw, I like your faces.vga for a new game
[23:01:13] <Dominus> :-)
[23:01:19] <freedman> No kidding. I had a hard time just doing my own grass:-)
[23:01:45] <freedman> Feel free to edit the faces:-)
[23:02:11] <freedman> ...Also, the Avatar could use a bit of improvement.
[23:02:38] <Dominus> Kirben: freedman, plans to drop ES support for the stable branch, so maybe you could drop it as well in the snapshots
[23:03:12] <Dominus> freedman: I gave up on starting anew game on my first try and never tried again up to now
[23:04:01] <freedman> It is kind of daunting. I gave up a while ago too.
[23:04:03] <Kirben> ok
[23:05:42] <freedman> But, the trouble with using U7 is that all the shape #'s are used.
[23:06:05] <Dominus> we have to find a way around that
[23:06:48] <freedman> One plan I have: Get a free 3D modeller (the commercial ones are WAY too expensive), and try to produce some simple buildings and people in U7-style perspective.
[23:08:36] <Dominus> hm, that might be interesting to try out