#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Mar 2003 (GMT)

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[02:55:43] <Kirben> I can't believe it, just ordered new Ultima 9: Dragon Edition at good price from shop after looking so long for second hand copy.
[02:56:00] <Kirben> So will finally have Ultima 1 - 9 :)
[03:00:39] <Fingolfin> hehe
[03:02:21] <Fingolfin> Kirben: BTW xu4 now works again on Mac OS X
[03:02:29] <Fingolfin> we finally found and fixed the SDL_mixer midi bug
[03:02:34] <Fingolfin> which caused it to freeze in the past
[03:03:27] <Fingolfin> Kirben: if you have any control over this guy: please for the sake of the lord, tell him to modify the Makefile to *NOT* set prefix to /usr
[03:03:30] <Fingolfin> this is EVIL
[03:03:38] <Fingolfin> it will cause the game to be installed into the system dirs
[03:04:00] <Fingolfin> kinda as if you install your games into C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM
[03:04:09] <Kirben> Just post that xu4 forum, he often checks there.
[03:04:11] <Fingolfin> it should be /usr/local
[03:04:13] <Fingolfin> ok
[03:04:15] <Fingolfin> will do
[03:06:00] <Kirben> When you have time, could you do mac package of last xu4 release ?
[03:06:55] <Kirben> Andrew is really interested in having mac port online.
[03:07:11] <Fingolfin> Kirben: maybe what should such a package contain
[03:09:08] <Kirben> xu4, midi files and any required libs I guess. The tools are optional as they are only for developers
[03:14:03] <Fingolfin> how do people get the data files? is it possible to ship them, too? I forgot the legal situation, didn't they make them available for free or so?
[03:15:20] <Kirben> EA allowed Ultima 4 to be distributed on any ultima dragons web site. I would still keep xu4 separate though.
[03:15:42] <Kirben> Can be downloaded off xu4 web site too.
[03:17:04] <Kirben> Ultima 4 data files are zip file so should be easy enough to unpack on mac.
[03:24:26] <Fingolfin> it is
[03:24:58] <Fingolfin> though it would be nice if they could be shipped along for easy of installation; or if it could read the data from the .zip file w/o extracting it
[03:28:13] <Kirben> That sounds like interesting idea, xu4 cvs seems to require zlib already (through libxml2).
[03:29:48] <Fingolfin> well, zlib != zip
[03:30:19] <Fingolfin> if the data was in .tar.gz format, then zlib would be good, but zip format is different
[03:30:25] <Fingolfin> but it should be possible to support it
[03:34:09] <Kirben> Best to post suggestion on forum or email andrew.
[03:35:56] <Kirben> andrew still the only coder on project, have not touched src myself.
[03:50:31] <Fingolfin> another thing, it seems he use libxml2 to read XML files...
[03:50:46] <Fingolfin> I would strongly recommend moving to expat. not only is it much smaller, but it also has less depencenies
[03:51:14] <Fingolfin> I am not sure if I can package this right now, I also would have to static link libiconv
[03:51:44] <Kirben> libxml is only used in cvs and no rush for package.
[03:51:47] <Fingolfin> as it is, the binary is 1.6 MB, twice as big as ScummVM
[03:53:37] <Kirben> is libiconv actually used ? only need to add -lxml2 -lz for libxml2 here.
[03:56:47] <Fingolfin> yes, libxml2 depends on libicon
[03:56:51] <Fingolfin> libiconv
[03:57:03] <Fingolfin> you don't need to specify it since libxml2 pulls in the indirect reference I guess
[03:57:32] <Fingolfin> but libiconv is not part of the system here; nor is libxml2; I must static link everything if I want to ship this to other people
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[07:11:03] <`daniel> "Internal cheapass forked midi player"
[07:11:08] <`daniel> hrmph!!!
[07:12:48] <`daniel> I deeply resent that description
[07:17:16] <DarkeZzz> IIRC Colourless wrote that, so you can blame him. *grin*
[07:18:26] <`daniel> well yes...
[07:18:50] <`daniel> He spelt bottom incorrectly
[07:19:07] <`daniel> It's "arse" not "ass".
[07:19:26] <`daniel> for an australian, that's quite a big mistake to make
[07:20:53] <DarkeZzz> Not really, both are valid Australian english last time I checked. *grin* At the very least I was told by multiple english teachers that both are acceptable.
[07:21:16] <DarkeZzz> He could be meaning 'cheapdonkey' too you know. *grin*
[07:21:54] <`daniel> hehe
[07:22:16] <`daniel> that's why I feel it would be more appropiate to use "arse" in that occasion.
[07:23:08] <`daniel> plus it sounds alot better than a "ass" when you sound it out. you don't need to stretch your mouth nearly as much, in order to say it :P
[07:25:14] <DarkeZzz> http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au:8008/anonymousFFC86209498+3/-/macshowrecord/1/2 <- Here's the reference from the Macquarie dic.
[07:26:32] <`daniel> yeh of course they would say that
[07:26:56] <`daniel> to macquarie, we are america's 53rd state
[07:45:21] <DarkeZzz> Which are the 51st and 52nd? I know Canada tends to be considered the 51st. *grin*
[07:47:46] <`daniel> well you got canada right
[07:47:57] <`daniel> 52nd is soon to be iraq
[07:48:17] <`daniel> and... i don't know why aust is 53 before the 52nd, but.... it just is :P
[07:53:17] * `daniel is happy with his half-arsed explanation
[07:58:17] * DarkeZzz snickers.
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[08:03:39] * DarkeZzz looks asleep.
[08:04:14] * wjp shouts "HI!" into DarkeZzz's ear
[08:06:18] * wjp notices the lack of any effect
[08:06:37] <wjp> ..., which clearly means that DarkeZzz is actually awake, since he would've woken up otherwise :-)
[08:09:41] * DarkeZzz pouts. Foiled again.
[08:12:09] <`daniel> hrrm
[08:12:43] <`daniel> I forgot the lines you need to add to .exult.cfg in order to use jmsfx and jmsfxsi for the sound.
[08:12:48] <`daniel> could you help me out?
[08:12:59] <wjp> hm, isn't that in the docs somewhere?
[08:13:24] <`daniel> hrrm
[08:13:36] <wjp> look under 'Digital Wave Sound Effects'
[08:13:59] <`daniel> maybe for a suggestion you should include the empty lines in the default .exult.cfg that is created when you don't have one.
[08:14:10] <`daniel> of course though... you don't need to listen to me.
[08:14:12] <Kirben> should be in the readme
[08:14:35] <Kirben> readme.html
[08:14:39] <wjp> you know, it doesn't help your point if you immediately say we don't have to listen :-)
[08:15:36] <`daniel> bah
[08:15:41] <wjp> :-)
[08:15:49] <`daniel> you should know i'm working on whatever sympathy you might have left :P
[08:18:00] * wjp wonders what our 'default' config file does currently contain
[08:18:16] <wjp> there's no real plan behind it currently, AFAIK
[08:19:32] --- wjp is now known as wjp|work
[08:19:48] <wjp|work> (still here, but I might be gone from time to time)
[08:19:52] * DarkeZzz watches wjp work.
[08:20:12] * DarkeZzz replaces wjp with a simple shell script.
[08:20:19] <wjp|work> thanks :-)
[08:20:30] <DarkeZzz> There, you can now work on pentagram instead. *grin*
[08:20:33] * wjp|work leaves work to the shell script and start toying with pentagram
[08:20:36] <wjp|work> :-)
[08:20:39] <wjp|work> my thought exactly :-)
[08:20:46] * DarkeZzz beams!
[08:23:04] <wjp|work> except for that I seem to need coffee... s/start/starts/
[08:26:33] * `daniel plays exult
[08:26:47] <`daniel> hrrm there seem to be some slight improvements
[08:27:05] <`daniel> scale2x, I didn't remember that video mode being included a couple of months ago
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[08:29:44] <Colourless> [07:17:16] <DarkeZzz> IIRC Colourless wrote that, so you can blame him. *grin*
[08:29:46] <Colourless> refering to:
[08:29:48] <Colourless> [07:11:03] <`daniel> "Internal cheapass forked midi player"
[08:29:54] <Colourless> Just FYI, I did NOT write that
[08:30:04] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Client Quit)
[08:30:19] <Matt_O> I've seen that comment before
[08:30:22] <Matt_O> isn't that Dancer's work?
[08:31:15] <`daniel> lol
[08:31:38] <`daniel> mmm
[08:31:41] <`daniel> thats it
[08:31:48] <`daniel> I'm going to play ultima7 right through
[08:35:57] * DarkeZzz blames Colourless anyway. You know he's want me to. *grin*
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[09:21:35] <wjp|work> DarkeZzz: your script is buggy; it failed to power-cycle a printer and restart the print daemon
[09:24:23] <DarkeZzz> wjp|work: Your job description is buggy. It failed to eleminate power-cycling a printer and restarting the daemon from the list of tasks you're to perform. *grin*
[09:25:00] <wjp|work> hm, so which tasks _did_ it manage to eliminate? :)
[09:25:19] <DarkeZzz> Umm... I dunno. I didn't implement logging.
[09:25:32] <DarkeZzz> I suppose you'll find out eventually. *grin*
[09:26:09] <wjp|work> :-)
[09:46:37] <`daniel> <RANT>
[09:46:38] <`daniel> BLAH!
[09:46:41] <`daniel> </RANT>
[09:46:48] <wjp|work> <confused>
[09:46:49] <wjp|work> huh?
[09:46:52] <wjp|work> </confused>
[09:46:54] <wjp|work> :-)
[09:46:55] <`daniel> :P
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[12:53:25] <Colourless> hi
[12:56:24] <Kirben> Is there such a thing as a raw midi file ?
[12:56:26] <DarkeZzz> Greetings.
[12:56:41] <Colourless> no
[12:57:06] <Colourless> without the headers it's impossible to know how to time the midi
[12:57:40] <Kirben> so if it has no header string id, it isn't a midi ?
[12:57:57] <Colourless> well, no
[12:58:17] <Kirben> ok, wonder what this is
[12:59:38] <Colourless> what what is?
[13:00:25] <Kirben> some kind of music used in old simon 1 demo for dos.
[13:00:28] <Kirben> http://members.optusnet.com.au/wormmon/MOD2.MUS
[13:00:50] <Colourless> mus format...
[13:01:01] <Colourless> i think there are 2 formats that use the extension mus
[13:01:52] <Kirben> extension doesn't seem to have a meaning, full version of game uses similar modx.mus files with gmf based midi in.
[13:04:37] <Colourless> i've no idea what it is
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[15:55:02] * Darke looks around dubiously with his 2.0 version of xchat.
[15:57:13] <wjp|work> heh, I've been avoiding that one for now :-)
[15:57:16] <wjp|work> how does it run?
[15:59:26] <Darke> Runs well. Looks like... well... it *looks* like a gnome app. I'm currently trying to fiddle around with the gnome configuration to change the fonts from the ones that were selected by someone who should be shot. Honestly, it looks worse then the 1.8 version. *grin*
[16:01:01] * Darke yays! Found a Menu-Font That Doesn't Suck(tm)!
[16:02:07] <Darke> It's got it's own config directory too (~/.xchat2/), as well as it's own executable name (xchat-2), so in theory you can try it whilst using the old version. *grin*
[16:03:06] <Darke> I also turned on proper font rendering too, so it looks much better now. *grin* Almost like KDE!
[16:05:54] * Darke oooohs and finds the theme editor! Y'know, gnome actually looks a bit better when you're not using the default theme!
[16:06:15] <wjp|work> hehe :-)
[16:08:21] <Darke> For all those who have give up on gnome apps in disgust 'cause they look horrible, your cure is to run this: `gnome-theme-manager` and pick a theme, *any* them, other then the default one. You *can't* go wrong! Really! They all look better! It's unbelievable! *grin*
[16:08:47] * Darke *may* be exagerating a bit. But *only* a little bit. *grin*
[16:10:42] <wjp|work> time to go home; bbl
[16:10:47] <Darke> Any idea which `gnome-*` configure program I'd use so I can get windows that open to open in a sane area in the screen? *grin*
[16:10:47] <Darke> Bye!
[16:10:59] <wjp|work> gnome-control-center?
[16:11:14] <Darke> Oooh! Lots of stuff! Thanks!
[16:11:17] <wjp|work> :-)
[16:11:18] <wjp|work> bye
[16:11:20] * Darke explores.
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[16:12:34] <Darke> Hi!!
[16:13:05] * Darke turns the keyboard repeat rate down a little. *grin*
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[16:33:42] <wjp> hi
[16:34:22] <Fingolfin> hi
[16:50:58] <wjp> ?seen Kirben
[16:50:58] <exultbot> kirben left IRC around Mon Mar 10 14:47:55 2003 (GMT) ("System Meltdown")
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[16:53:51] <Darke> wjp: The only reason you shouldn't be emerging the latest xchat now, is that you are running it already. *grin*
[16:54:17] <Darke> wjp: That's my complete answer for the question you asked quite a while ago. *grin*
[16:54:27] <wjp> :-)
[16:54:40] <armav> i'm not running the latest xchat because it crashes as soon as i start it
[16:54:46] * wjp runs "emerge rsync; emerge xchat", then
[16:55:34] <Darke> armav: xchat v2.0.0? What error messages are on the console when you do that?
[16:55:48] <wjp> hm, no 2.0.1 ebuild yet?
[16:55:50] <armav> i'm using windows 98 se
[16:56:16] <armav> and there are no error messages, just the crash window ("application has caused a general protection fault...")
[16:56:25] <wjp> oh, there is, but it's masked
[16:56:40] <armav> how do i get at it?
[16:57:05] <Darke> armav: Ahh. Can't help you then sorry. I only use 1.8.0 under windows, haven't tried the latest 2.0.
[16:57:38] <armav> i'm using 1.8.11
[16:57:44] <armav> no problems with it
[16:57:59] <Darke> wjp: Weird. It's unmaked for me.
[16:58:01] <armav> except for occasional graphical glitches
[16:58:38] <Darke> wjp: What's your make.profile pointing at?
[16:59:34] <Darke> armav: *nod* I've never had much problem with xchat at all in the past involving crashing, etc. I just upgrade mainly because of the removal of Yet Another IRC Client Exploit.
[17:00:06] <wjp> 2.0.1 is unmasked for you?
[17:00:20] <wjp> KEYWORDS="~x86 ~ppc ~sparc ~alpha"
[17:00:22] <Darke> Nah. Just 2.0.0. I only just noticed 2.0.1 is out. *grin*
[17:00:32] <wjp> you're a week late, then ;-)
[17:00:51] <armav> Darke: please don't hack me :P
[17:00:51] <wjp> oh yuck
[17:01:04] <Darke> wjp: I only just upgraded to 2.0.0 which has been released for what, the last month? *grin*
[17:01:13] <wjp> so... how did I set the font to something readable? :-)
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[17:02:01] <Darke> I presume you're not talking about the menu fonts, since you do use gnome2, don't you? *grin*
[17:02:40] <wjp> no, menu fonts are fine
[17:02:57] <Darke> Setup->Interface->Text box->Font
[17:03:36] <Darke> I suggest Courier 10 Pitch Bold, since that's really the only one that's readable here, unless you've got a better suggestion? *grin*
[17:04:02] <wjp> I'm tempted to use my old -misc-fixed-bold-r-normal-*-13-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-15
[17:05:25] <Darke> How do you set that? I only see the weird font name in the box, no way to set a proper font descrition.
[17:05:45] <Darke> Plus it doesn't list Misc Fixed as a font to be selected either for me.
[17:05:59] <wjp> it only took me a couple of days to figure that part out :-)
[17:06:45] <Darke> What? The part how you get gnome to list a font that X already knows about? *grin*
[17:06:53] <wjp> yes, that part :-)
[17:07:07] <Darke> Erm... so how do you do it then? *grin*
[17:07:17] <wjp> find the .pcf.gz file you want, copy it to ~/.fonts, and gunzip it
[17:07:31] <wjp> I don't know why, but it refuses to work with gzipped pcf fonts
[17:08:14] * Darke blinkblinks and decides that gnome is not merely evil, it needs a stake driven through it's heart. Make that multiple stakes. *grin*
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[17:09:24] <wjp> the next obvious problem is to make it realize that I just added a new font to that directory
[17:09:40] <wjp> I have my terminal font there, too, which it recognizes
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[17:15:14] <wjp_xchat2> ok, that was the font part
[17:18:23] <Darke> Just killing and restarting xchat worked?
[17:18:40] <wjp> no, I copied the wrong font file :-)
[17:19:21] <Darke> Ahh.
[17:19:22] <wjp> hm... it won't load my perl plugin
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[17:21:05] * Ember waves. Looks like the 2.0.0 windows version works ok under xp at least.
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[17:22:25] <wjp> omg
[17:22:37] <wjp> it installs its perl plugin as "/usr/lib/perl.so"?!
[17:22:50] <wjp> wouldn't something like xchat-perl.so be a bit nicer?
[17:22:57] <Darke> Umm... ick.
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[17:23:34] <wjp_> at least that perl script does still work :-)
[17:23:53] <Darke> Looks like if I pull up a new instance of xchat2 I get the font listed. Should disappear and reappear then. *grin*
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[17:25:32] <wjp_> hmm... I really don't like this default gnome theme, no
[17:25:41] <wjp_> problem is, I don't really like any of the others, either
[17:26:02] <wjp_> it would probably already help if the background colour of all the windows/widgets wasn't this weird brownish gray
[17:26:31] <wjp_> the default gnome1 theme looks better, IMO
[17:26:33] * Darke thinks he should do what wjp does and keep another xchat in for chatting, rather then dropping out and reappearing. *grin*
[17:26:47] <Darke> My prefernce is 'Smokey Blue'.
[17:27:02] <Darke> Just 'cause the button widgets don't look awful. *grin*
[17:27:09] <wjp_> hm, not bad at all, no
[17:27:44] <wjp_> I think I'll try it a while to see if it starts to annoy me :-)
[17:28:11] <Darke> It has square buttons which look elegant, rather then raised buttons which look clunky, or just look like they got accepted into CDE's widget set. *grin*
[17:29:16] <wjp_> hm, the contrast between selected and not-selected apps in the task list in the panel is rather high
[17:29:35] <wjp_> kind of semi-annoying to see that blue bar move around at the bottom of the screen
[17:30:44] <Darke> Fair enough. I consider that a feature rather then a problem. Stops me from accidentally typing something on one channel that would be... inappropriate on another.
[17:30:58] <wjp_> not in xchat, I mean
[17:31:03] <wjp_> on the main desktop
[17:31:03] <Darke> Ahh.
[17:31:33] * Darke doesn't use gnome, so can't help you there. *grin*
[17:31:49] <Darke> Actually I *can* help you there! Use another desktop! *beam*
[17:32:07] <wjp_> I might switch to kde sometime
[17:32:14] <wjp_> some parts about gnome I really don't like
[17:32:34] <wjp_> but they're mostly behind-the-scenes things, so as long as things Just Work(tm) I'm happy with gnome
[17:33:20] <Darke> Cool.
[17:34:40] * Darke will wait patiently in the wings with his mind control ray for you to convert to KDE, just like you converted to gentoo. You Know You Want Too(tm).
[17:35:11] <wjp_> ... :-)
[17:35:30] <wjp_> xchat 2.0 does save its settings without me having to tell it to, right?
[17:35:38] * wjp_ doesn't see a 'save settings' button like in 1.8
[17:36:13] <Darke> It would appear to, since I've quit and reappeared and my settings are saved. *grin*
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[17:36:21] <wjp_> good enough :-)
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[17:36:32] * Darke hops off again to reset his fonts once more.
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[17:48:17] * Darke concludes that the last couple of hours of configuring xchat have *really* tired him out, and flops into bed. Night!
[17:48:28] <wjp> night :-)
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[19:07:10] <wjp> hi
[19:07:27] <BET-frogger> hello
[19:08:02] <BET-frogger> i'm the guy who can compile under OSX...:)
[19:08:14] * wjp pokes Fingolfin
[19:08:44] <BET-frogger> can someone tell me how to build a static exult
[19:08:52] * wjp points at Fingolfin :-)
[19:08:53] * Fingolfin is having dinnner, but already read the story, and is not going to compile his own compiler
[19:09:05] <Fingolfin> esp. since apple fixed the issue internally. I rather wait for the next compiler release
[19:09:07] <Fingolfin> over and out
[19:09:15] <wjp> enjoy your meal :-)
[19:10:05] <BET-frogger> Fingolfin I don't wanna bother ;)
[19:15:31] <BET-frogger> anyway, have a nice evening
[19:15:34] <-- BET-frogger has left IRC ("[BX] Abort Retry Fail")
[19:20:27] <exultbot> testing...
[19:20:36] <exultbot> wjp: testing
[19:20:52] <wjp> (just testing tab highlighting colours in the new xchat :-) )
[19:22:31] <Fingolfin> back
[19:22:38] <Fingolfin> well I could have told him how to static link :-)
[19:22:51] <Fingolfin> i just didn't want to miss my dinner
[19:23:05] <Fingolfin> and in fact, we have ice cream, so bbiab =)
[19:23:09] <wjp> yum :-)
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[19:29:33] <BET-frogger> *g* back again...
[19:30:39] <BET-frogger> Fingolfin after returned from your dinner....can U tell me how to compile static?
[19:31:15] <wjp> wb :-)
[20:04:31] <Fingolfin> BET-frogger: there are two ways
[20:04:43] <Fingolfin> BET-frogger: but both are not as nice as you might hope for...
[20:04:57] <Fingolfin> essentially the OS X linker will *always* prefer a shared lib (.dylib) if found over a static archive
[20:05:02] <Fingolfin> so your two options are:
[20:05:03] <BET-frogger> okay tell me..
[20:05:29] <Fingolfin> 1) first remove the .dylib's before linking (pro: you can't forget to do it when you link; con: you may still want to use .dylibs for your local development)
[20:05:44] <Fingolfin> 2) instead of -lSDL etc. during linking, instead specify the absolute path to the lib
[20:06:31] <Fingolfin> so e.g. instead of cc -o mySDLapp mySDLapp.c -lSDLmain -lSDL you do: cc -o mySDLapp mySDLapp.c /sw/lib/libSDLmain.a /sw/lib/libSDL.a
[20:07:25] <Fingolfin> in scummvm I added a custom target for this; when building exult, then I usually use a variant of approach a) (that is I copy the .a files into a seperate lib dir, then replace the -L/sw/lib (which points at the SDL libs normally) to point at my dir which has only static libs
[20:08:05] <Fingolfin> with approahc 1) you can use the normal build process; with 2) you have to manually link the execcutable (or add a new build rule for it, whatever)
[20:09:19] <BET-frogger> Fingolfin thanks alot....first I played with LDFLAGS=-static but the osx linker doesn't like it...
[20:09:43] <Fingolfin> the OS X linker likes -static... it just means something different than with GNU ld 8-)
[20:11:52] <BET-frogger> Fingolfin may be he likes -static, but he doesn't spit out the expected result
[20:12:01] <Fingolfin> uhh no...
[20:12:05] <BET-frogger> at last, expected be me...
[20:12:06] <Fingolfin> your expectations are wrong :-)
[20:12:09] <Fingolfin> yup yup :-)
[20:12:19] <Fingolfin> it didn't spit out what I expected either, but then I read the docs
[20:12:36] <Fingolfin> it's annoying that there is no built in feature to override the preference for dynamic libs, but that's how it is
[20:14:35] <BET-frogger> rtfm is always a good idea....but with a broken compiler, it makes no difference between compiling static or not ... at all for exult
[20:14:39] <BET-frogger> under osx
[20:17:17] <BET-frogger> just for interest, how do you compile the 0.99RC2? was there a 2.95.x compiler under osx?
[20:29:43] <Fingolfin> the compiler is not broken in this case
[20:30:06] <Fingolfin> it's the stdc++ lib which is broken (though the internal version has a fix; I guess you can just compile the latest Apple GCC and it should work)
[20:30:25] <wjp> ah, they finally fixed it?
[20:30:25] <Fingolfin> till 10.1 the GCC was a heavily hacked 2.95.2, yes.
[20:30:30] <Fingolfin> the new 3.1 is much much cleaner
[20:30:54] <Fingolfin> wjp: yes, they fixed it quite some time ago, but not released...
[20:31:03] <Fingolfin> wjp: I expect it to be working with the next Developer tools
[20:31:11] <Fingolfin> but I don't know when those will be released <sigh>
[20:31:24] <wjp> :/
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