#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 May 2005 (GMT)

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[02:29:32] * servus didn't realize that Colourless was angry about not having the Exult3D source *grin*
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[02:56:19] <`bsdaniel> wow
[02:56:29] <`bsdaniel> I've just looked at exult3d in the forums on exult.sf.net
[02:56:37] <`bsdaniel> Looks to be progressing nicely.
[02:56:45] <`bsdaniel> Alot of effort for one person servus
[02:58:02] <servus> Tell me about it *smirk*
[02:58:22] <servus> Haven't had a chance to work on it for quite a while. It seems like I'm in constant crunch-time.
[02:59:39] <`bsdaniel> sucks about the work thing :/
[03:01:51] <sbx> hello
[03:01:58] <servus> Oy oy
[03:02:28] <sbx> servus: you could do sky and camera without help
[03:02:39] <sbx> not that im complaining
[03:03:07] <sbx> when your not working I mean
[03:03:18] <`bsdaniel> If only I had some coding talent.... *sigh*
[03:03:39] <servus> Well I can do it all without help. It's just time.
[03:03:57] <servus> For a temporary speedup, though, the next thing I'll do is just display-list everything I can.
[03:04:14] <sbx> I didn't know you wanted programming help.
[03:04:41] <sbx> what about graphics? like a skybox textures
[03:06:13] <servus> I can't think of anything I need programming help for. I have it all planned out in mind. I just need a vacation : o)
[03:09:17] <sbx> Get any NES games?
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[03:11:57] <servus> Not yet. My brother forgot to bring them. Blah
[03:12:47] <sbx> cant find my left arrow key again
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[03:19:17] <servus> Now in place of GL_ARB_multitexture documentation : "NOTE: This extension no longer has its own specification document, since it has been included in the OpenGL 1.2.1 Specification (downloadable from www.opengl.org). Please refer to the 1.2.1 Specification for more information." -- The data that used to be here is not in the OpenGL Spec
[03:20:25] <sbx> ey? why isn't it in the OpenGL spec? maybe your looking at an old version
[03:21:24] <servus> No, I looked at the 2.0 spec and the 1.2.1 spec. It's in there, but only as a passing reference. I can't find the actual whitepaper. (The ARB whitepapers are sometimes over a hundred pages long)
[03:21:30] <servus> The OpenGL spec is nothing but fluff!
[03:21:38] <Cless|zZZzZZz> it's in there
[03:21:48] <Cless|zZZzZZz> the spec it just damn hard to read :-)
[03:22:16] <servus> No, it's not in there.
[03:22:35] <servus> I just searched the spec for keywords that I know were in the whitepaper.
[03:22:39] <Cless|zZZzZZz> are you sure you are looking at the right thing? spec is like a 90 page document or something
[03:23:58] <servus> Yeah. This is 278 pages and that is WAY too short.
[03:24:08] <servus> It should be over a thousand pages for all the whitepapers they deleted : o/
[03:26:55] <Cless|zZZzZZz> in the 1.2 specifications it should be in Appendix F
[03:27:51] <Cless|zZZzZZz> E actually
[03:27:59] <Cless|zZZzZZz> pfft
[03:27:59] <Cless|zZZzZZz> F
[03:28:07] <Cless|zZZzZZz> F.2 Multitexture
[03:28:35] <servus> Yeah, worthless.
[03:28:52] <sbx> "It's in there, but only as a passing reference." That what you meant?
[03:28:54] <servus> Junk, pointless. Inane. Babble. Absolutely none of the relevant material that was in the whitepaper is maintained in the spec.
[03:29:28] <sbx> you'd think someone would have it archived
[03:29:35] <Cless|zZZzZZz> looks just like an extension spec to me
[03:30:11] <servus> It's definitely not. Specifically, the original multitexture.txt had a table denoting all possible arguments and passing parameters for glTexEnv
[03:30:14] <servus> This is missing.
[03:30:35] <servus> None of the new tokens introduced by GL_ARB_multitexture /even appear once/ in the spec.
[03:33:03] <servus> I welcome you to look in any of the OpenGL "specs" for, say, the term "DOT3_RGB"
[03:34:17] <Cless|zZZzZZz> DOT3_RGB is a seperate extension
[03:34:38] <Cless|zZZzZZz> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/ARB/texture_env_dot3.txt
[03:35:00] <Cless|zZZzZZz> are you sure you are not getting confused with
[03:35:00] <Cless|zZZzZZz> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/ARB/texture_env_combine.txt
[03:35:56] <servus> Just look in the standard for relevant information.
[03:36:54] <Cless|zZZzZZz> is it any wonder i'm more of a D3D person :-)
[03:36:57] <servus> Deleting documentation of any sort -- even if you believe you have created something of a parallel to it -- isn't acceptable.
[03:37:05] <servus> Ugh, D3D is worse :p
[03:37:42] <Cless|zZZzZZz> D3D doesn't have painful to read extension sheets!
[03:37:43] <sbx> if the new information makes the old document obsolete
[03:39:50] <servus> The old information would have made the new information obsolete.
[03:39:57] <servus> The data that was contained there just evaporated.
[03:41:33] <Cless|zZZzZZz> um
[03:41:48] <Cless|zZZzZZz> i really think you are confusing multitexture with another extension
[03:42:04] <Cless|zZZzZZz> checking the extension headers multitexture doesn't have any defines for TexEnv
[03:42:20] <servus> It added the PREVIOUS_ARB token.
[03:42:52] <Cless|zZZzZZz> this is all the headers have
[03:42:53] <Cless|zZZzZZz> #define GL_TEXTURE0_ARB 0x84C0
[03:42:58] <Cless|zZZzZZz> throught to
[03:42:59] <Cless|zZZzZZz> #define GL_TEXTURE31_ARB 0x84DF
[03:43:02] <Cless|zZZzZZz> #define GL_ACTIVE_TEXTURE_ARB 0x84E0
[03:43:02] <Cless|zZZzZZz> #define GL_CLIENT_ACTIVE_TEXTURE_ARB 0x84E1
[03:43:02] <Cless|zZZzZZz> #define GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS_ARB 0x84E2
[03:43:31] <Cless|zZZzZZz> PREVIOUS_ARB is defined in GL_ARB_texture_env_combine
[03:43:38] <Cless|zZZzZZz> as i said, this extension http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/ARB/texture_env_combine.txt
[03:44:42] <servus> The ARB spec is gone. That's what I said, and it is indeed gone. If it were there, we could settle this easily *grin*
[03:45:01] <Cless|zZZzZZz> it's not gone
[03:45:57] <servus> You're the one talking about texture_env_combine, not me.
[03:46:03] <Cless|zZZzZZz> yes
[03:46:30] <Cless|zZZzZZz> as texture_env_combine is the one that modifies TexEnv, not multitexure
[03:47:34] <servus> Blah.
[03:47:43] <Cless|zZZzZZz> in arb_multitexture each texture is modulated with each other
[03:47:47] <servus> Het gekke. You aren't even arguing about the point that I brought up.
[03:48:16] <Cless|zZZzZZz> you were arguing that the extension sheet wsa removed and what is in the spec isn't complete
[03:48:40] <Cless|zZZzZZz> i'm arguing the info in the spec is compelte and you are confusing things that you thought were in the extension with another extension
[03:50:02] <servus> I reassert that the spec is incomplete. In the OpenGL 2.0 spec, you find no mention to the contents of very old extensions such as GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3.
[03:52:03] <Cless|zZZzZZz> you do know that gl 2.0 is all about using shaders
[03:52:25] <servus> OpenGL2.0 is a comprehensive superset of OpenGL1.5, 1.4, 1.3, 1.2, and 1.1.
[03:52:33] <Cless|zZZzZZz> in gl 2.0 spec
[03:52:34] <Cless|zZZzZZz> J.15 Texture Dot3 Environment Mode
[03:52:35] <Cless|zZZzZZz> The name string for DOT3 is GL ARB texture env dot3. It was promoted to a
[03:52:35] <Cless|zZZzZZz> core feature in OpenGL 1.3.
[03:52:47] <Cless|zZZzZZz> F.7 Texture Dot3 Environment Mode
[03:52:47] <Cless|zZZzZZz> The TEXTURE ENV MODE COMBINE operations also provide three-component dot
[03:52:47] <Cless|zZZzZZz> products of specified parameters, with the resulting scalar value replicated into the
[03:52:47] <Cless|zZZzZZz> RGB or RGBA components of the output color. The dot product is performed
[03:52:47] <Cless|zZZzZZz> using pseudo-signed arithmetic to enable per-pixel lighting computations.
[03:52:48] <Cless|zZZzZZz> Texture DOT3 mode was promoted from the GL ARB texture env dot3 extension.
[03:52:49] <servus> Maybe my PDF viewer is broken
[03:53:15] <servus> Regardless, I rely on the text-file extension specs, and I do not appreciate them disappearing.
[03:53:39] <servus> Oh, yeah, look at what you just posted. That was the whole section :P
[03:53:46] <servus> Real informative. Lots of data.
[03:53:52] <Cless|zZZzZZz> DOT3 is listed there
[03:54:07] <servus> At least I found the table.
[03:54:07] <Cless|zZZzZZz> in 3.8.14
[03:54:23] <servus> The spec is organized in a less-than-useful way.
[03:54:39] <servus> Its presentation focuses too much on prose, and not enough on tables and grammar sheets.
[03:55:06] <Cless|zZZzZZz> yeah
[04:00:21] <servus> There. All that trouble for 5 lines of code
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[04:15:11] <sbx> hi Colourless
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[10:23:57] <sbx> hi
[10:25:22] <abp> hello there
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[10:30:21] <abp> so you'd want to put hands on pascal code? :D
[10:30:44] <sbx> hell no
[10:30:52] <sbx> i mean, no thanks :D
[10:31:02] <sbx> im not that familiar with pascal anyway
[10:31:36] <abp> I though so, that was the meaning of my post infact
[10:31:50] <abp> "no one would like to...etc.etc.", so why making it opensource :)
[10:33:09] <sbx> just because I wouldnt doesnt mean no one would
[10:33:22] <sbx> but it is probably a lot less likely than if it was in C
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