#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Oct 2005 (GMT)

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[03:40:25] <ShadwChsr> Hey
[03:40:28] <Baastuul> Harro, harro.
[03:40:53] <ShadwChsr> Turkey Day #2 :P
[03:40:54] <ShadwChsr> hehe
[03:41:22] <ShadwChsr> So are you an Exult helper or an Exult player? :)
[03:42:41] <Baastuul> Player
[03:42:48] <ShadwChsr> ahh
[03:42:50] <Baastuul> I take it you're a Canadian?
[03:42:55] <ShadwChsr> yeah
[03:46:15] <ShadwChsr> Get tomorrow off
[03:46:20] <ShadwChsr> which is nice
[03:46:24] <ShadwChsr> Is this place always so dead?
[03:46:39] <Baastuul> Yeah, usually.
[03:46:45] <ShadwChsr> :p
[03:46:47] <Baastuul> Sometimes some conversations spark up, though.
[03:46:52] <ShadwChsr> ahh
[03:46:52] <Baastuul> You're lucky that you have tomorrow off.
[03:46:55] <Baastuul> I have a midterm tomorrow.
[03:46:59] <Baastuul> Then three more classes after it.
[03:47:01] <ShadwChsr> :S
[03:47:16] <ShadwChsr> that sucks
[03:47:36] <Baastuul> Yup! Then Wednesday, I've got an exam which is practically like a midterm, and then I've got another midterm on Friday.
[03:47:41] * Baastuul tears at his hair in frustration.
[03:47:54] <Baastuul> What do you do for a living?
[03:48:20] <ShadwChsr> Technically i'm the special projects guy :D
[03:48:24] <ShadwChsr> but I do IT/programming
[03:50:51] <Baastuul> cool
[03:51:04] <ShadwChsr> Work on my silly game engine in my spare time
[03:51:08] <ShadwChsr> been my hobby project for ages :D
[03:52:20] <Baastuul> hehehe
[03:52:24] <Baastuul> How long is "ages"? :)
[03:52:30] <ShadwChsr> Bah I cant remember
[03:52:35] <ShadwChsr> Originally I programmed it in Delphi
[03:52:42] <ShadwChsr> Just because thats all I knew ;)
[03:52:47] <ShadwChsr> But it sucked and was a hack
[03:52:59] <Baastuul> hehe
[03:53:03] <ShadwChsr> So I worked on a C++ version but I got fed up writing all the stuff that should have been done for me :0
[03:53:27] <ShadwChsr> The lack of memory streams really drove me nuts, spent half my time trying to make up for what the language lacked
[03:53:38] <ShadwChsr> Error handling was next to impossible other than arcane methods
[03:53:44] <ShadwChsr> so I switched to C# and things have been great :)
[03:53:59] <ShadwChsr> Been working on writing the engine extremely cleanly
[03:54:13] <ShadwChsr> Rendering works, just needs optimization here and there - what I'm working on right now
[03:54:29] <Baastuul> How much longer do you think you'll be working on the game?
[03:54:32] <Baastuul> Many years to come? :)
[03:54:43] <ShadwChsr> I dunno, hopefully not long :)
[03:54:52] <ShadwChsr> it's more of a game engine though
[03:55:00] <ShadwChsr> I wanted a really great tool for creating worlds and playing them
[03:55:03] <Baastuul> k!
[03:55:19] <ShadwChsr> Exult and Pentagram are great but I find the editors lacking and still require the original source files :S
[03:55:35] <ShadwChsr> focus is on playing U7/U8 :)
[03:56:37] <ShadwChsr> My game is similar to U8 but has larger maps
[03:56:43] <Baastuul> cool
[03:56:47] <Baastuul> I've been making my own world
[03:56:49] <Baastuul> except it's all on paper
[03:56:53] <ShadwChsr> ahh
[03:57:01] <Baastuul> I've made a language and all that
[03:57:01] <Baastuul> But still got some kinks to work out
[03:57:07] <ShadwChsr> what are you taking in school?
[03:57:24] <Baastuul> To demonstrate it, I tried translating one of the smaller books of the Bible... here's the result: http://www.dannyatherton.com/projects/Ordulgan/Philemon.html
[03:57:37] <Baastuul> (Note that I'm not calling the world "Ordulgan" anymore, so I need to update that page)
[03:57:42] <Baastuul> (in fact, I don't even know what I want to call my world)
[03:58:02] <Baastuul> My main classes I'm taking right now are British Literature Before 1800, Ancient and Medieval World Civilizations, The Crusades, and Intro to Sociology
[03:58:25] <Baastuul> Here's a city I'm working on for my world: http://www.dannyatherton.com/images/misc/2005-09-05_Antaspin_about_halfway_done_2.jpg
[03:58:42] <ShadwChsr> ahh
[03:58:59] <Baastuul> family guy's on soon... i'm gonna go watch that, talk to you later :)
[04:01:20] <Baastuul> huh
[04:01:22] <Baastuul> I guess it's not
[04:01:23] <Baastuul> oh well :)
[04:01:30] <ShadwChsr> :P
[04:13:49] <ShadwChsr> I really wonder how WJP and Colourless (and the others) figured out how to program Exult & Pentagram ;)
[04:15:28] <ShadwChsr> Certain concepts always trip me up :P
[04:16:10] <Baastuul> hehehe
[04:23:57] <ShadwChsr> Really shocked how dead it is here though :)
[04:57:03] <ShadwChsr> Ugh I wish I was good at class design :S
[04:57:13] <ShadwChsr> always comes back to bite me in the ass
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[17:22:53] <bam_> cool
[17:23:04] <bam_> anyone runnin this on zaurus
[17:23:11] <bam_> btw, morning
[17:23:51] <wjp> hi
[17:24:23] <wjp> people do run exult on a Zaurus, yes, but not sure if anyone actually here does
[17:24:42] <bam_> cant seem to get it to find where the data is
[17:25:24] <bam_> i put the static directory where the path says to put it, still not recognizing
[17:26:02] <wjp> details please :-)
[17:26:38] <bam_> it says put the static files in /mnt/cf/exult-data/si[bg]
[17:26:46] <bam_> i did that
[17:27:08] <bam_> and it says cant find data files for bg or si
[17:27:33] <wjp> which instructions are you following, by the way? (URL?)
[17:27:53] <bam_> the sourceforge site
[17:28:03] <bam_> only ones i have fpound
[17:28:34] <wjp> URL?
[17:29:19] <bam_> lemme get it
[17:31:03] <bam_> hmm found something, hold up a sec
[17:33:06] <bam_> http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#new_packages
[17:33:11] <bam_> guess not...
[17:40:28] <wjp> so did you put the files from the static directory directly in /mnt/cf/exult-data/si ?
[17:40:37] <wjp> if so, they should probably be in /mnt/cf/exult-data/si/static
[17:40:50] <wjp> (and the same for bg, of course)
[17:41:15] <bam_> yes
[17:58:05] <bam_> hmm same thing on my ubuntu box...wierd
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[19:46:47] <ShadwChsr> WJP, you here?
[19:49:01] <wjp> yes
[19:49:23] <ShadwChsr> I have a quick question about Pentagram, mainly the renderer/camera
[19:49:41] <ShadwChsr> How is the camera position determined across the world.. pixel offset or does it use a game coordinate?
[19:49:53] <ShadwChsr> or some hybrid between offset & chunk
[19:50:00] <wjp> game coordinates
[19:50:25] <wjp> most often it's locked on an object, which is then centered
[19:50:40] <wjp> but for cutscenes it's often locked on specific world coordinates
[19:50:43] * ShadwChsr nods
[19:50:58] <ShadwChsr> I noticed the CameraProcess class that handles things like earthquakes
[19:51:10] <ShadwChsr> but wasn't sure what the X/Y represented
[19:51:53] <ShadwChsr> Where does the actual render code take place? I saw the UIClient class and it had some render code, but the Render method didn't seem to draw any objects
[19:51:59] <ShadwChsr> unless its hidden somewhere else I couldn't find
[19:52:02] <ShadwChsr> I must be blind :D
[19:52:31] <wjp> oh, the earthquakes? those are screen coordinate offsets
[19:52:46] <wjp> UIClient? what's that?
[19:52:56] <ShadwChsr> Sorry, i must have remembered the class name wrong
[19:53:18] <wjp> any specific rendering?
[19:53:31] <wjp> map? gumps?
[19:53:33] <ShadwChsr> GUIApp.css
[19:53:36] <ShadwChsr> I saw gumps, just not map
[19:53:45] <wjp> s/css/cpp/ :-)
[19:53:56] <ShadwChsr> ARG :P Sorry yet again lol
[19:54:05] <wjp> css can do quite a bit, but not _that_ much yet ;-)
[19:54:11] <ShadwChsr> hehe
[19:54:25] <wjp> GameMapGump does the map
[19:54:44] <ShadwChsr> Ahhh you consider it a gump? Interesting
[19:55:02] <ShadwChsr> I suppose you are using the gump subsystem to do the UI layering, and the game is the "base" gump?
[19:55:32] <wjp> not sure what exactly you mean by 'base', but it's not the root of the window tree, in any case
[19:56:00] <wjp> it is the 'lowest' layer in terms of drawing order, though, of course
[19:56:03] <ShadwChsr> *nods*
[19:56:18] <ShadwChsr> My layering system is only an ordered list, not a tree yet.
[19:56:25] <ShadwChsr> But then again I haven't done any advanced UI rendering yet :)
[19:56:40] <ShadwChsr> What's a "lerp" and a "dims"?
[19:56:55] <ShadwChsr> I see those terms quite often
[19:56:58] <wjp> having it a tree meant we could simply plug in a ScalerGump between the root (Desktop) and the GameMap to get a scaled map
[19:57:09] <wjp> lerping is linear interpolation
[19:57:37] <ShadwChsr> so the scaling factor I assume?
[19:57:38] <wjp> dims is short for dimensions
[19:57:40] <wjp> no
[19:57:53] <wjp> something entirely different
[19:58:18] <ShadwChsr> ah
[19:58:21] <wjp> when an object moves, we store its previous location and the next location, and linearly interpolate its current location between the two
[19:58:45] <wjp> that's because the game runs at 25 FPS, while the renderer can handle quite a bit more
[19:59:11] <wjp> so we get somewhat smoother movement this way
[20:01:06] * ShadwChsr nods
[20:01:48] <ShadwChsr> I'm still working on that silly open-source engine of mine
[20:02:40] <ShadwChsr> I'm not copying any pentagram code but portions of the system are similar - you've already solved alot of the problems I've encountered
[20:03:08] <ShadwChsr> What is the open souce etiquette for that sort of thing?
[20:03:45] <wjp> borrow any ideas you want :-)
[20:04:04] <ShadwChsr> What's the proper way of giving credit & giving back to the community?
[20:04:28] <wjp> didn't you say your engine is open-source itself?
[20:05:09] <ShadwChsr> yes
[20:05:40] <ShadwChsr> It's not in CVS but every so often I'll dump the source back out to SF.net, no binaries have been released yet
[20:06:53] <ShadwChsr> I just wasn't sure if it was correct to have special text files regarding original code or concept sources
[20:07:21] <wjp> if the license doesn't conflict with ours, you can of course copy/adapt any of pentagram's code you want as well, by the way :-)
[20:07:44] <ShadwChsr> I know, I just don't want to feel like too much of a leecher/user :P
[20:08:00] <ShadwChsr> I really don't know how you figured out some of the more complex aspects of the sorter/renderer ;)
[20:08:09] <wjp> half the reason of open sourcing is so it can be re-used anyway :-)
[20:08:27] <wjp> you'll have to talk to Colourless about that... :-)
[20:08:53] <ShadwChsr> hehe
[20:09:10] <ShadwChsr> I really like how clean Pentagram's source is, BTW
[20:09:16] <ShadwChsr> Not many open source projects look that nice :)
[20:10:26] <ShadwChsr> It would have been cool to work on Pentagram and add a map editor/etc so I can design my worlds,
[20:10:46] <ShadwChsr> But I didn't want to run into problems with U8 requirements or data-file similarities with EA stuff
[20:11:02] <ShadwChsr> Probably gets em cranky even if the image data is different
[20:11:38] <ShadwChsr> Do all the developers run on Linux boxes or do you have a few Windows GCCers?
[20:12:24] <wjp> Colourless uses MSVC, as far as I know
[20:12:53] <ShadwChsr> I thought that Pentagram didn't compile in MSVC? (at least according to the site..)
[20:13:19] <wjp> oh, it does, if you know what you're doing :-)
[20:13:32] <ShadwChsr> :)
[20:14:14] <ShadwChsr> I noticed a thread on exult's boards with a ton of paperdolls... is there some sort of project to add those in or something?
[20:14:21] <ShadwChsr> It was an interesting thread :)
[20:15:30] <wjp> the ones from Crysta?
[20:15:35] <ShadwChsr> I think so
[20:15:53] <wjp> I guess my seepd at adding those to Exult has been somewhat lacking :/
[20:16:04] <wjp> I added about half I think
[20:16:14] <ShadwChsr> How does that work, is there some sort of custom data file that ships along with the binaries?
[20:16:20] <wjp> yes
[20:16:35] <ShadwChsr> What kind of code changes does it require to override the default game behaviour?
[20:16:51] <wjp> there's no default game behaviour really
[20:17:01] <ShadwChsr> It's all hard-coded?
[20:17:04] <wjp> paperdolling is pretty much entirely hardcoded
[20:17:12] <ShadwChsr> Ahh that makes it easy to add them :)
[20:17:39] <wjp> easy is not quite the right word, but easier, in any case :-)
[20:17:47] <ShadwChsr> :)
[20:17:52] * wjp shudders at moving art around to get it to fit just right :-)
[20:18:13] <ShadwChsr> I love doing that, sick I know ;-)
[20:18:29] <ShadwChsr> I'll muck around in photoshop for hours editing tile art for my game :P
[20:19:06] <ShadwChsr> If you want, I could give it a try sometime, but I'd need to setup the compile environment first
[20:19:34] <ShadwChsr> Are the graphics stored aligned in the data files (all the same size) or are they positioned in code?
[20:19:46] <-- Khelz has left IRC ()
[20:23:54] <ShadwChsr> I wouldn't know where to begin adding them to the data files, but the source should be no problem
[20:30:45] <wjp> a mixture of both
[20:31:04] <wjp> but mainly in the image file itself
[20:31:43] <ShadwChsr> Is there any way I can extract a list of wearable items without gumps?
[20:32:01] <ShadwChsr> - / paperdolls
[20:32:57] <bam_> anyone here got the zaurus port to work?
[20:33:14] <ShadwChsr> I don't have one, sorry :)
[20:33:23] <bam_> hmm
[20:33:41] <wjp> there's a list in docs/art.txt
[20:33:46] <wjp> pretty much everything is done, though
[20:33:49] <ShadwChsr> wow
[20:34:02] <ShadwChsr> Have you loaded in any of the custom ones yet?
[20:34:25] <wjp> all the ones there with an artist listed are in Exult
[20:35:02] <wjp> bam_: if it doesn't work in Ubuntu as well, I'd guess you're not setting the paths in the config file in the right way
[20:35:25] <bam_> gonna try to work it in ubuntu now
[20:35:28] <bam_> actually
[20:35:44] <bam_> but the paths are correct in my zaurus
[20:35:57] <wjp> can you show me your config file?
[20:37:13] <bam_> sure
[20:37:18] <bam_> zaurus right?
[20:38:12] <bam_> /mnt/cf/exult-data/bg/static
[20:38:56] <bam_> thats under the first "path" in te config file
[20:39:18] <wjp> the whole config file please
[20:39:23] <bam_> oh
[20:39:27] <bam_> hold on
[20:41:09] <bam_> <config>
[20:41:09] <bam_> <disk>
[20:41:09] <bam_> <game>
[20:41:09] <bam_> <blackgate>
[20:41:09] <bam_> <path>
[20:41:10] <bam_> /mnt/cf/exult-data/bg/static
[20:41:12] <bam_> </path>
[20:41:14] <bam_> <waves>
[20:41:16] <bam_> /opt/QtPaltmop/share/exult/data/jmsfx.flx
[20:41:18] <bam_> </waves>
[20:41:20] <bam_> <title>
[20:41:22] <bam_> blackgate
[20:41:24] <bam_> </title>
[20:41:26] <bam_> <gamedat_path>
[20:41:28] <bam_> /home/root/.exult/blackgate/gamedat
[20:41:30] <bam_> </gamedat_path>
[20:41:32] <bam_> <savegame_path>
[20:41:34] <bam_> /home/root/.exult/blackgate
[20:41:36] <bam_> </savegame_path>
[20:41:37] * wjp sighs
[20:41:40] <bam_> <keys>
[20:41:42] <bam_> /opt/QtPalmtop/share/exult/keys_bg.txt
[20:41:44] <wjp> don't paste things that long in here
[20:41:44] <bam_> </keys>
[20:41:46] <bam_> </blackgate>
[20:41:48] <bam_> <serpentisle>
[20:41:50] <bam_> <path>
[20:41:52] <bam_> /mnt/cf/exult-data/si/
[20:41:53] <wjp> in any case, get rid of the static behind the path
[20:41:54] <bam_> </path>
[20:41:56] <bam_> <waves>
[20:41:58] <bam_> /opt/QtPaltmop/share/exult/data/jmsisfx.flx
[20:42:00] <bam_> </waves>
[20:42:02] <bam_> <gamedat_path>
[20:42:04] <bam_> /home/root/.exult/serpentisle/gamedat
[20:42:06] <bam_> </gamedat_path>
[20:42:10] <wjp> why do you think the files need to be in static if don't point at the directory above that?
[20:42:10] <bam_> <savegame_path>
[20:42:12] <bam_> /home/root/.exult/serpentisle
[20:42:14] <bam_> </savegame_path>
[20:42:19] <-- bam_ was kicked from #exult by wjp (wjp)
[20:43:03] <wjp> only way to stop floods like that...
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[20:43:24] <bam_> 200
[20:43:26] <bam_> </height>
[20:43:28] <bam_> <fps>
[20:43:29] <wjp> gah
[20:43:30] <bam_> 5
[20:43:32] <bam_> </fps>
[20:43:34] <bam_> </video>
[20:43:36] <bam_> <gameplay>
[20:43:40] <bam_> <right_click_closes_gumps>
[20:43:42] <bam_> no
[20:43:44] <bam_> </right_click_closes_gumps>
[20:43:46] <bam_> <mouse3rd>
[20:43:48] <bam_> no
[20:43:50] <bam_> </mouse3rd>
[20:43:52] <bam_> <fastmouse>
[20:43:54] <bam_> no
[20:43:56] <bam_> </fastmouse>
[20:43:58] <bam_> <bg_paperdolls>
[20:44:00] <bam_> yes
[20:44:02] <bam_> </bg_paperdolls>
[20:44:04] <bam_> <gumps_dont_pause_game>
[20:44:06] <bam_> no
[20:44:10] <bam_> </gumps_dont_pause_game>
[20:44:12] <bam_> <double_click_closes_gumps>
[20:44:14] <bam_> yes
[20:44:18] <bam_> </double_click_closes_gumps>
[20:44:20] <bam_> <walk_after_teleport>
[20:44:22] <bam_> no
[20:44:24] <bam_> </walk_after_teleport>
[20:44:26] <bam_> <combat>
[20:44:28] <bam_> <difficulty>
[20:44:30] <bam_> 0
[20:44:32] <bam_> </difficulty>
[20:44:35] <bam_> <mode>
[20:44:36] <bam_> original
[20:44:40] <bam_> </mode>
[20:44:42] <bam_> <show_hits>
[20:44:44] <bam_> no
[20:44:46] <bam_> </show_hits>
[20:44:48] <bam_> </combat>
[20:44:50] <bam_> <skip_splash>
[20:44:52] <bam_> no
[20:44:54] <bam_> </skip_splash>
[20:44:56] <bam_> <skip_intro>
[20:44:58] <bam_> no
[20:45:00] <bam_> </skip_intro>
[20:45:02] <bam_> <formation>
[20:45:04] <bam_> yes
[20:45:06] <bam_> </formation>
[20:45:10] <bam_> <cheat>
[20:45:12] <bam_> yes
[20:45:14] <bam_> </cheat>
[20:45:20] <bam_> <textbackground>
[20:45:22] <bam_> -1
[20:45:24] <bam_> </textbackground>
[20:45:26] <bam_> <facestats>
[20:45:28] <bam_> 1
[20:45:30] <bam_> </facestats>
[20:45:33] <bam_> </gameplay>
[20:45:34] <bam_> <audio>
[20:45:36] <bam_> <enabled>
[20:45:40] <bam_> yes
[20:45:42] <bam_> </enabled>
[20:45:45] <bam_> <effects>
[20:45:46] <bam_> <enabled>
[20:45:48] <bam_> yes
[20:45:50] <bam_> </enabled>
[20:45:52] <bam_> <convert>
[20:45:54] <bam_> gs
[20:45:56] <bam_> </convert>
[20:45:58] <bam_> </effects>
[20:46:00] <bam_> <midi>
[20:46:02] <bam_> <enabled
[20:46:04] <bam_> tell me bout it
[20:46:06] <bam_> ok, np tried that.....still same error
[20:46:12] <bam_> gamedat path
[20:46:14] <bam_> perhaps its looking with this path?
[20:47:14] <wjp> config/disk/game/blackgate/path must point at the directory _above_ the static dir
[20:47:35] <wjp> i.e., make it /mnt/cf/exult-data/bg, but keep the files where they are in the static dir
[20:47:53] <bam_> ok
[20:48:47] <bam_> done, same error msg
[20:48:54] <bam_> could not find
[20:51:45] <wjp> what exactly does it say it cannot find?
[20:52:15] <wjp> I can't read minds, you know...
[20:53:09] <bam_> could not find the data files for either The Black Gate or Serpents Isle Please Edit the Configuration file
[20:54:02] <wjp> does the zaurus version produce a stdout.txt and stderr.txt?
[20:54:24] <bam_> not sure
[20:54:54] <bam_> tried to run from terminal but screen just went white, required a reset
[20:56:23] <bam_> exult-studio
[20:56:27] <bam_> oops
[20:56:31] <bam_> wrong window
[21:51:44] <ShadwChsr> wjp, what do most windows devs use to download the CVS? WinCVS? Or is there a nicer tool out there somewhere?
[21:56:10] <ShadwChsr> Going to try TortoiseCVS and compile Exult under VC++2005
[21:56:24] <ShadwChsr> If I get that working maybe I'll see what I can do about the paperdolls :)
[21:56:25] <ShadwChsr> bbl
[22:01:24] <Baastuul> Quatsch
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[23:05:27] <ShadwChsr> Anyone here?
[23:05:33] <ShadwChsr> Trying to figure out CVS :(
[23:07:12] <Baastuul> I can't help you with that, but look at these pictures: http://www.mediabum.com/html/Bull-Vs-Pitbulls.html
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