#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Sep 2003 (GMT)

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[13:12:21] <Colourless> hi
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[21:07:05] <Zxcvb> has the item duplication bug been fixed yet?
[21:08:26] <wjp> ages ago
[21:08:44] <wjp> (well, about a month, anyway :-) )
[21:10:10] <Zxcvb> you wouldn't happen to know where the original beach you land on in serpent isle (before the storm) is, would you?
[21:10:28] <wjp> somewhere west of the one where you end up later on
[21:12:39] <Fingolfin> there are three of them, yeah
[21:12:54] <Zxcvb> three of them?
[21:13:10] <Zxcvb> the second one just teleports you back to the boat
[21:46:46] <wjp> time to go; 'night
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[21:47:46] <h30r> hi
[21:50:31] <h30r> is anyone here?
[21:55:30] <Zxcvb> yeah
[21:56:49] <h30r> I have a question
[21:57:11] <Zxcvb> go ahead
[21:57:17] <h30r> why OpenGL support in exult?
[21:58:06] <h30r> what form?
[21:58:10] <h30r> what for?
[22:00:40] <h30r> hello?
[22:01:24] <Zxcvb> scaling
[22:01:29] <Zxcvb> use scale2x instead
[22:02:11] <h30r> and why the openGL option in exult?
[22:03:30] <Zxcvb> the same reason you have 2xsai, supereagle, etc
[22:03:42] <Zxcvb> more options
[22:03:55] <Zxcvb> and someone wanted it there
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[22:45:18] <Fingolfin> you could have mentioned the HW accel :-)
[22:45:56] <Zxcvb> what is there to accelerate
[22:46:04] <Zxcvb> ultima 7 is not 3d
[22:46:35] <Zxcvb> and runs fine even on a pentium 150
[22:48:09] <Fingolfin> OpenGL can be used very well as 2D accelerator
[22:48:35] <Fingolfin> and I am not just talking about the HW accelerated scaling
[22:48:36] <Zxcvb> doesn't matter
[22:48:45] <Fingolfin> although in the case of Exult that's the primary reason for it
[22:48:57] <Fingolfin> but it's incorrect to assume that only 3D apps benefit from OpenGL
[22:49:18] <Zxcvb> could mode 7 be made faster with opengl?
[22:49:50] <Zxcvb> as in f-zero
[22:49:55] <Fingolfin> what is mode 7 ?
[22:50:17] <Zxcvb> ever play f-zero?
[22:51:41] <Zxcvb> it deals with landscaping and perspective
[22:52:07] <Zxcvb> for example, something close up will not move at the same rate as something far away when you turn
[22:52:28] <Zxcvb> http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/mode7.html
[22:53:54] <Zxcvb> or the google cache if you prefer
[22:54:08] <Fingolfin> dunno, maybe it could, maybe not, hard to tell w/o more details about it. but I'd assume that's something for a SNES emulator to consider, not Exult :-)
[22:54:19] <Zxcvb> yeah
[22:54:24] <Zxcvb> it's a pseudo-3d mode
[22:54:40] <Fingolfin> actually it isn't, if you had read the URL you posted me :-)
[22:54:50] <Zxcvb> that's from everything2
[22:54:52] <Fingolfin> it's just been abused to generated pseudo-3d effects =)
[22:55:04] <Fingolfin> "Unfortunately, over the years this effect has become synonomous with the term "Mode 7" which is properly just the ability to rotate/scale a playfield. I will use the term "Mode 7 landscape" to refer to the perspectivized version. "
[22:55:13] <Zxcvb> you could probably accelerate the super fx chip, which is a true 3d chip
[22:55:19] <SB-X> f-zero was fun
[22:55:58] <Zxcvb> SB-X: any chance opengl could be used to accelerate super-fx and mode 7 effects?
[22:56:16] <SB-X> sorry i don't know much about OGL im still learning
[22:56:21] <Zxcvb> or would you have to emulate the chip in software anyway?
[22:56:48] <SB-X> you have to emulate it if you want a snes rom to use it
[22:57:19] <Zxcvb> SB-X: would it be any faster to use opengl in the emulation?
[22:57:32] <Zxcvb> SB-X: similar to how openglide uses opengl to emulate a voodoo 2 card
[22:57:47] <SB-X> for SuperFX, wouldnt it be faster to use any 3D accel?
[22:57:53] <SB-X> i dont know about Mode7
[22:58:04] <SB-X> its just rotation and zooming stuff isnt it?
[22:58:25] <SB-X> i have a Voodoo3
[22:58:44] <Zxcvb> SB-X: f-zero is mode 7
[22:59:25] <Zxcvb> SB-X: which does ogl
[22:59:33] <Zxcvb> SB-X: voodoo is good to have
[23:00:08] <SB-X> Fingolfin says GL can be used as a 2D accelerator so mode7 could be implemented with that
[23:00:08] <Zxcvb> SB-X: ultima 9 runs faster on a P2 300 with an 8MB voodoo 2 card and 96MB RAM than a P4 1.6 with a 32MB nvidia card and 512MB RAM
[23:00:33] <SB-X> heh
[23:00:40] <SB-X> i never played u9
[23:00:45] <SB-X> except the demo
[23:01:10] <Zxcvb> SB-X: if you do, first install it, then install the 1.18f patch, then the unofficial 1.19f patch, then the dialog/monster/economy patches
[23:01:42] <SB-X> did you ever play ChronoTrigger?
[23:01:50] <SB-X> there are mode7 effects in that
[23:01:54] <Zxcvb> SB-X: 1.19f fixes the buggy safedisc, and makes it so the game won't crash if you have too many items when loading a savegame
[23:01:56] <Zxcvb> SB-X: yeah
[23:02:09] <Zxcvb> SB-X: I have a save just after getting the timeship
[23:02:09] <SB-X> oh ok
[23:02:13] <SB-X> heh
[23:02:15] <SB-X> yeah
[23:02:16] <SB-X> remember the race?
[23:02:18] <SB-X> in the future
[23:02:20] <Zxcvb> SB-X: yeah
[23:02:38] <Zxcvb> SB-X: played final fantasy 4?
[23:02:47] <SB-X> that looks like that Mode 7 perspectivized thing
[23:02:49] <Zxcvb> SB-X: not 2, but final fantasy 4 with the translation
[23:03:00] <SB-X> i played a fourth of it
[23:03:06] <SB-X> first part of the game
[23:03:17] <Zxcvb> SB-X: in 4j, there is not a single item to heal all status, for example
[23:03:31] <Zxcvb> SB-X: I found 4j hardtype _easier_ than ff2us
[23:03:36] <SB-X> why?
[23:03:41] <Zxcvb> SB-X: probably because you have to level up more
[23:03:53] <Zxcvb> SB-X: so when you get to the bosses, you are much tougher than you would be in ff2
[23:03:58] <SB-X> heh, so its easier if you actually do level up
[23:04:01] <SB-X> i probably didnt enough
[23:04:05] <SB-X> i had problems in a few dungeons
[23:04:13] <Zxcvb> SB-X: in ff2, you rarely have to level up, except for bosses
[23:04:26] <Zxcvb> SB-X: in ff4 the regular enemies are harder too, so you level up more
[23:04:34] <Zxcvb> SB-X: do not level up in ff8
[23:04:36] <SB-X> i had a tough time in the last area in ff2
[23:04:41] <Zxcvb> SB-X: yeah
[23:04:47] <Zxcvb> SB-X: in ff4j it was easy though
[23:05:05] <Zxcvb> SB-X: I had lots of gold from leveling up, and ryidia had meteo
[23:05:15] <Zxcvb> SB-X: so meteo, meteo, elixir, etc
[23:05:26] <SB-X> why not lvl up in ff8?
[23:05:33] <Zxcvb> SB-X: enemies level up with you
[23:05:44] <Zxcvb> SB-X: in order to get better, you draw magic and junction it
[23:05:51] <Zxcvb> SB-X: cheesy tactic
[23:06:01] <SB-X> but most of the enemies that are weak stay weak
[23:06:04] <Zxcvb> SB-X: get life magic refine, and purchase 30 tents
[23:06:07] <SB-X> they must lvl up on some low stat curve
[23:06:17] <SB-X> i lvled up more in that game than others :)
[23:06:34] <Zxcvb> SB-X: refine those to 300 curagas (cure 3), and junction to hp
[23:06:53] <Zxcvb> SB-X: 3,000 hp by the time you get to deling city and the tomb
[23:06:57] <SB-X> heh, i think i did use hp junction for the last battle
[23:07:01] <SB-X> but most of the game i just used Auto
[23:07:03] <Zxcvb> SB-X: I use all junctions
[23:07:10] <Zxcvb> SB-X: I use auto, then defense
[23:07:12] <SB-X> the first half of the game i didnt understand that part
[23:07:22] <Zxcvb> SB-X: after you use auto, be sure to remove any elemental junctions
[23:07:30] <Zxcvb> SB-X: otherwise you may only do 3 damage
[23:07:53] <SB-X> i still havnt played ff9 yet
[23:07:57] <Zxcvb> SB-X: oh, once you get to esthar, you can purchase this one gf item
[23:08:07] <Zxcvb> SB-X: it refines into like 20 aura
[23:08:22] <Zxcvb> SB-X: and once you get to deling city, mug a bunch of steel pipes
[23:08:40] <Zxcvb> SB-X: one steel pipe is one aura stone (do not refine to aura at that point)
[23:08:57] <SB-X> i dont even remember a lot of that game
[23:09:07] <SB-X> i remember i did the refinement near the end
[23:09:11] <Zxcvb> SB-X: when in deling city, I get about 30 aura stones (from mugging pipes), and lots of AP ammo from tomberry cards
[23:09:29] <Zxcvb> SB-X: 4,000 hp a shot with his limit break
[23:09:30] <SB-X> aura stones make the last battle almost too easy
[23:09:44] <SB-X> until the last form at least
[23:09:47] <Zxcvb> SB-X: the card game can really help you
[23:10:02] <Zxcvb> SB-X: refining AP ammo, and other advaced spells and items
[23:10:11] <SB-X> i used AP ammo and fast ammo
[23:10:20] <Zxcvb> SB-X: the minotaur isn't that hard when you are doing 4,000 hp a shot
[23:10:28] <Zxcvb> SB-X: or most other bosses
[23:11:07] <Zxcvb> SB-X: the best limit breaks are squalls' gunblade, and irvine's gun
[23:11:19] <Zxcvb> SB-X: save the other characters for healing/demi/whatever
[23:11:37] <SB-X> haha
[23:11:39] <SB-X> squall
[23:11:41] <SB-X> damn straight
[23:11:51] <SB-X> he was almost doing the entire battle himself
[23:12:04] <SB-X> quistis and irvine for support and healing
[23:12:27] <Zxcvb> irvine does more damage per limit with his AP ammo
[23:12:37] <Zxcvb> at least until you get the high end gunblades
[23:12:49] <SB-X> i had the last gunblade and limit
[23:12:53] <Zxcvb> on disc 3, squall kicks butt
[23:13:14] <SB-X> he switched between limits randomly, but mosty of them did good dmg
[23:13:16] <SB-X> especially Lionheart
[23:13:40] <Zxcvb> yeah, I use irvine until reaching esthar in disc 3
[23:13:46] <SB-X> what was more important was how many hits he got
[23:13:54] <SB-X> you dont like irvine after that?
[23:13:58] <SB-X> i dont remember that much
[23:14:04] <SB-X> about that part of the game
[23:14:08] <Zxcvb> irvine is still good, but squall's gunblade is much better
[23:14:19] <Zxcvb> once he gets one of the last two
[23:14:27] <SB-X> i know the enemies around there were tough after the LunaticPandora appeared
[23:14:28] <Zxcvb> I use rinoa for magic
[23:14:32] <Zxcvb> yeah
[23:14:44] <Zxcvb> you mean after getting the spacecraft/airship?
[23:14:53] <SB-X> yeah
[23:14:59] <Zxcvb> the hard enemies are where you get the final gunblade
[23:15:00] <SB-X> i never really used Rinoa
[23:15:14] <Zxcvb> I like my party to be squall, irvine, and rinoa
[23:15:20] <Zxcvb> rinoa makes a good magic user
[23:15:27] <Zxcvb> squall and irvine provide heavy damage
[23:15:46] <SB-X> isnt it just whoever you junction and train the gf's with?
[23:16:05] <Zxcvb> no, some GF abilities permanently affect stats at level up
[23:16:26] <Zxcvb> so if rinoa has a GF ability of say, +1 mag at level up, she will be better than others
[23:16:35] <SB-X> speaking of GFs, maxed out Cactuar is fun :)
[23:16:50] <Zxcvb> be sure to visit every single shop in the city after the airship
[23:17:01] <Zxcvb> you can only call a shop that you have visited before
[23:17:21] <SB-X> oh
[23:17:28] <SB-X> i think i just visted them when i first when in the towns
[23:17:33] <SB-X> went*
[23:19:12] <Zxcvb> killed bahamut in under 10 minutes
[23:19:17] <Zxcvb> doesn't matter when you visit
[23:19:26] <Zxcvb> the visiting after the airship is just insurance
[23:22:36] <Zxcvb> I'm a stockpiler in most games
[23:22:45] <SB-X> about about u7?
[23:22:47] <Zxcvb> that is, I will try to build up plenty of stuff for later on
[23:22:52] <SB-X> ultima's are good stockpiling games :)
[23:22:52] <Zxcvb> yeah
[23:23:02] <Zxcvb> especially serpent isle
[23:23:29] <Zxcvb> by the time everyone dies, I have hundreds of useful potions stored in seriss (silver seed)
[23:24:12] <Zxcvb> a big tip for serpent isle, explore the inn where you go to get passage to moonshade fully
[23:24:29] <Zxcvb> underneath that inn, you can find an invisible chest with a scroll of false coin
[23:24:46] <SB-X> i havnt player SI yet either
[23:24:48] <Zxcvb> otherwise, you have to wait until you get back from moonshade to get the false coin spell
[23:24:57] <Zxcvb> oh, get to moonshade ASAP
[23:25:22] <Zxcvb> do not do the goblin quest for the helm of courage
[23:25:38] <Zxcvb> you don't get your spellbook until moonshade
[23:25:44] <Zxcvb> oh, get lots of sleep potions
[23:26:07] <Zxcvb> you can feed them to enemies
[23:26:19] <SB-X> i did that to dragons in BG
[23:27:19] <Zxcvb> have you tried past posting?
[23:27:34] <SB-X> no
[23:28:22] <Zxcvb> first, infiltrate the fellowship and get your thing
[23:28:44] <Zxcvb> then, go to buc's den with 100 gold, and go to the wheel of virtue
[23:29:03] <Zxcvb> place the money on a color, spin the wheel, then just as it's about to stop, open your inventory and move the money
[23:29:26] <Zxcvb> make sure no one is around (blue potions work wonders)
[23:29:28] <SB-X> oh
[23:29:34] <SB-X> you were asking if that was considered a cheat earlier
[23:30:30] <Zxcvb> rob the fellowship
[23:31:41] <Zxcvb> or get on the carpet, and slay a bunch of headless
[23:31:47] <Zxcvb> each one has 2-3 nuggets
[23:32:59] <Zxcvb> or solo dragon hunting with the black sword
[23:34:03] <Zxcvb> try saving alagner
[23:34:30] <SB-X> heh
[23:34:44] <SB-X> if you come from the right entrance he'll still be around
[23:34:56] <Zxcvb> before going in the storeroom, kill him and put him in your BoH (crate), then after he dies, resurrect him
[23:35:08] <Zxcvb> BoH - bag of holding
[23:35:21] <SB-X> oh
[23:35:26] <SB-X> the other method is just a bug
[23:35:29] <Zxcvb> after the isle of fire, I use crates
[23:35:30] <SB-X> in the original and exult
[23:36:11] <Zxcvb> oh, in serpent isle, you can go to a pikeman tower, and kill a pikeman, sell his armor, and get paid to cremate his body
[23:36:19] <Zxcvb> good way to get halberds for everyone too
[23:36:29] <Zxcvb> and the pikeman regnerates, and doesn't even call for help
[23:37:00] <Zxcvb> I once got so much money at the fellowship casino that it crashed to DOS with "out of near memory"
[23:37:13] <SB-X> i used to do that in u6
[23:37:17] <SB-X> but not with the same error
[23:37:38] <Zxcvb> it works in part 2
[23:37:40] <Zxcvb> and no karma either
[23:38:00] <Zxcvb> is it true that in ultima 6, you could give sandy the dragon egg over and over, getting karma each time?
[23:38:21] <Zxcvb> no, in ultima 7, with the casino trick you can have too much money
[23:38:45] <Zxcvb> can exult handle 130,000 gold pieces?
[23:38:54] <Zxcvb> or will I have to settle for 21,000 or so
[23:38:57] <SB-X> theres multiple dragon eggs
[23:39:23] <Zxcvb> no, supposedly sandy will not take the egg from you
[23:39:35] <Zxcvb> or if she does, cast animate, then clone, clone, clone
[23:39:37] <SB-X> i wonder how nuvie handles that
[23:39:46] <SB-X> the dragon egg might not appear yet
[23:40:07] <Zxcvb> try casting animate on a suit of magic armor, then cast clone on it
[23:40:21] <Zxcvb> in ultima 6
[23:40:27] <Zxcvb> oh, for ultima 6, dosbox.sourceforge.net
[23:41:58] <Zxcvb> tried baldur's gate yet
[23:42:03] <SB-X> nope
[23:42:05] <Zxcvb> either the original or 2
[23:42:07] <SB-X> i don't play many games
[23:42:15] <SB-X> new videogames
[23:42:27] <Zxcvb> baldur's gate 1/2 isn't really "new"
[23:42:33] <Zxcvb> it's more classic RPG
[23:42:43] <Zxcvb> uses AD&D rules (memorization, not magic points_)
[23:42:51] <SB-X> heh
[23:42:53] <SB-X> well not new then
[23:42:55] <SB-X> just games
[23:43:00] <SB-X> ive heard about it
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[23:43:22] <Zxcvb> you can get baldur's gate with expansion for like $10, and baldur's gate 2 with expansion and both bonus cds for like $20
[23:43:29] <Zxcvb> SB-X: tried savage empire?
[23:44:17] <SB-X> yes just a bit
[23:44:29] <SB-X> i didnt really play it, just walked around
[23:44:35] <SB-X> i'll be getting it soon
[23:44:36] <Zxcvb> try making things
[23:44:39] <SB-X> and martian dreams
[23:44:39] <Zxcvb> grenades are cool
[23:44:56] <Zxcvb> you can't stockpile in savage empire
[23:45:08] <Zxcvb> anything left on the ground disappears when you leave the area
[23:47:20] <Zxcvb> slockpiling in serpent isle is important
[23:47:30] <Zxcvb> about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through, everyone dies
[23:47:52] <SB-X> in u6 some things would disappear, some wouldnt, there was a bug where some important items would disappear
[23:47:54] <Zxcvb> the ring of reagents is nice, it eliminates any need for them
[23:48:10] <Zxcvb> it's in the silver seed add-on
[23:48:28] <Zxcvb> how do you usually run ultima 6 and earlier?
[23:49:00] <SB-X> sometimes from win95, or i use dosbox in slackware when im testing things
[23:49:40] <Zxcvb> yeah, dosbox is great
[23:49:44] <Zxcvb> have to use dosbox for underworld
[23:49:54] <Zxcvb> win9x won't give me any EMS memory
[23:50:04] <Zxcvb> dosbox is still too slow
[23:51:47] <SB-X> dosbox only recently runs underworld doesnt it?
[23:51:56] <SB-X> i was going to try TSSHP but didnt get it compiled
[23:52:01] <Zxcvb> yeah
[23:52:16] <Zxcvb> underworld does not use protected mode
[23:52:28] <Zxcvb> a 286 with an aboveboard would run it, though slowly
[23:52:48] <Zxcvb> underworld used to crash if you ever pressed any capital letters (caps lock or shift + letter) though
[23:53:00] <armav> pardon me for asking, but what's an "aboveboard"?
[23:53:57] <Zxcvb> an aboveboard is an EMS (expanded memory) board
[23:54:07] <armav> oic
[23:54:12] <Zxcvb> this was before the 386, and the use of emm386/qeem to use XMS to simulate EMS
[23:54:51] <armav> back in the day when people realized that 640K wasn't quite enough :)
[23:55:30] <Zxcvb> you mean 512k
[23:56:43] <Zxcvb> and the days when a c64 floppy drive cost more than the computer itself