#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 11 Jan 2002 (GMT)

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[00:07:09] <Fingolfin> uhm, how would I do that?
[00:07:55] <Dominus> I guess you'd have to remove the files first then readd with binary option, but that could throw an error
[00:08:02] <Dominus> I'm not sure
[00:08:44] <Fingolfin> lemme look
[00:10:33] <Fingolfin> cvs admin -b foo.jpg
[00:10:37] <Fingolfin> should do it, will try
[00:14:36] <Fingolfin> should be fixed
[00:18:13] <Dominus> yeah
[00:19:30] <Fingolfin> FAQ updates look good
[00:20:24] <Dominus> what do you think of 3.3 ?
[00:20:27] --> Corkus has joined #exult
[00:20:40] <Corkus> anyone here?
[00:20:46] <Dominus> uhm, yeah
[00:20:49] <Corkus> :)
[00:20:50] <Dominus> hi
[00:20:54] <Corkus> hi :)
[00:21:07] <Corkus> i was wondering if you could help me out a bit
[00:21:13] <Dominus> shoot
[00:21:31] <Corkus> at minoc when i try to deliver a package to elynor, it quits to qindows regardless of what i say
[00:22:00] <Dominus> qindows is not a supported OS :-)
[00:22:03] <Dominus> he he
[00:22:04] <Corkus> windows
[00:22:05] <Corkus> :P
[00:22:08] <Corkus> it was a typo
[00:22:11] <Corkus> lol
[00:22:12] <Dominus> could you send me a savegame
[00:22:14] <Dominus> ?
[00:22:20] <Corkus> yeah ok
[00:22:45] <Dominus> dcc?
[00:22:59] <Corkus> yup
[00:23:00] <Corkus> hang on
[00:23:08] <Corkus> i gotta find out which one is my savegame
[00:23:12] <Fingolfin> 3.3. looks ok :)
[00:23:59] <Corkus> ok done
[00:24:04] <Dominus> got it
[00:24:11] <Dominus> one moment, I'll test
[00:24:16] <Corkus> thank you
[00:26:01] <Dominus> hmm, works for me
[00:26:10] <Corkus> realy?
[00:26:16] <Corkus> i tried to deliver it and it crashed :/
[00:26:56] <Corkus> maybe i have a different version of exult
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[00:28:10] <Dominus> yeah, you should try the daily snapshots, many bugs have been fixed since the beta1 release
[00:28:18] <void> hi
[00:28:23] <Dominus> snapshot is on the download page
[00:28:27] <Dominus> void: hi
[00:29:34] <Corkus> wat do i do with the daily snapshots?
[00:29:50] <Dominus> Corkus: download it and install it :-)
[00:29:55] <Dominus> the binary version
[00:30:38] <Corkus> wats the filename exactly?
[00:30:39] <Dominus> Fingolfin: why are your commits in the versioning and mine just 1.1. ?
[00:30:54] <Corkus> Windows 9x/ME/NT/2000 binary snapshot ?
[00:31:01] <Dominus> right
[00:31:01] <Fingolfin> because mine are from an import, your are not :)
[00:31:17] <Fingolfin> mine is longer than yours :)
[00:31:25] <Dominus> ah (what ever that means)
[00:31:26] <Corkus> why does it say use at your own risk??????
[00:31:43] <Corkus> doesnt that mean its not recommended?
[00:31:43] <void> hi fingolfin, i hear you're the mac expert around here?
[00:31:50] <Fingolfin> Dominus: my revision ( is longer than yours. What else? :)
[00:31:51] <Dominus> Fingolfin: your is not longe than mine? Mine is the longest :-)
[00:31:56] <Fingolfin> void: aye
[00:32:13] <Dominus> Corkus: because sometimes we break stuff
[00:32:18] * Fingolfin yawns
[00:32:26] <Corkus> wat do you mean break stuff?
[00:32:45] <void> cool, i couldnt get the beta to compile in os x, but i can get the snapshot to compile. problem is i have to run it form the terminal. how do i make it a double clickable app?
[00:32:54] <Fingolfin> Corkus: it just means: use at your own risk. Like when you read on your new bought pocket knife: "Don't put into your eyes or may cause damage" :)
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[00:33:37] <Fingolfin> "make Exult_app"
[00:33:55] <void> ok, ill try that. thats after doing 'make' right?
[00:34:01] <Fingolfin> yeah
[00:34:30] <void> and to configure i had to type './configure --host=powerpc-apple-darwin5.2' is that right?
[00:34:36] <Corkus> can it fuck up any of your windows files???
[00:34:46] <Dominik> Fingolfin: can you kick Dominus?
[00:35:04] <Fingolfin> Dominik: jus use the ghost command
[00:35:11] <Fingolfin> /msg nickserv help ghost
[00:35:22] <-- Dominus was kicked from #exult by Fingolfin (Fingolfin)
[00:35:54] <Corkus> does the Windows 9x/ME/NT/2000 binary snapshot have any side effects to your windows
[00:35:55] <Corkus> ?
[00:36:18] <Fingolfin> void: sorry got distracted
[00:36:26] <Fingolfin> void: that means you have an outdated config.guess, not so good
[00:36:37] <void> i c, how do i fix that?
[00:36:44] <Fingolfin> where did you get libtool/automake from, did you install them yourself?
[00:36:50] <Corkus> yes no??
[00:36:55] <void> yeh, from a GNU mirror
[00:37:01] <Fingolfin> Corkus: not being a windows user I have no clue
[00:37:09] <Dominik> Corkus: no
[00:37:24] <Corkus> ok thanx
[00:37:33] <Fingolfin> void: on the long run, I would recommend to you to use a package manager like fink (http://fink.sf.net)
[00:37:38] <Fingolfin> void: but anyway
[00:37:42] <Dominik> Corkus: the snapshot is not that different to the release, the beta1 was a snapshot before it became beta
[00:37:45] <void> why is that?
[00:37:51] --- Dominik is now known as Dominus
[00:37:53] <Fingolfin> void: if you have to specify --host, it seems you are using an outdated config.guess
[00:38:06] <void> ok, so should i use fink now?
[00:38:33] <Fingolfin> void: well, if it compiled fine, then I wouldn't worry to much right now
[00:38:49] <Dominus> Fingolfin: how do I set my channel operator back?
[00:38:51] <void> ok, id just rather do it via command line so i learn more
[00:38:57] <Dominus> and thanks for the ghost
[00:39:09] <Corkus> ahhh
[00:39:15] <Fingolfin> Dominus: you need to a) ID with nickserv and b) /msg chanserv op #exult Dominus
[00:39:30] <Fingolfin> void: fink is via command line :)
[00:39:33] <Corkus> i played pagan b4
[00:39:37] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[00:39:38] <Corkus> but it was too tedious
[00:39:50] <Corkus> :)
[00:39:51] <Corkus> it works
[00:39:55] <Corkus> thank thee
[00:40:04] <Fingolfin> void: the advantage is that it manages the installation for you, tracks dependencies, and most importantly, has all the patches required to get the software to work properly on OS X.
[00:40:22] <Fingolfin> so if I want to install SDL and automake with fink, I enter: "fink install automake sdl" and it will download the source, compile it and install it
[00:40:40] <Fingolfin> or alternatively, one can use "apt-get install sdl automake" to get the versions from the binary distro
[00:41:03] <void> ok, sounds easy
[00:42:07] <Dominus> Corkus: glad to have helped you
[00:43:04] <Dominus> Corkus: if you run into another problem sometimes, first get the snapshot then test if it still happens
[00:45:34] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("good night")
[00:52:50] <Corkus> alrite
[00:52:53] <Corkus> i will
[00:52:55] <Corkus> :)
[00:53:07] <Dominus> happy gaming
[01:06:23] --- void is now known as V0|D
[01:11:12] <Corkus> did you guys ever think about making items able to stack?
[01:11:33] <Corkus> eg potions, bandages, food, venom, gold bars, etc?
[01:11:45] <Dominus> nope
[01:12:19] <Dominus> but then I don't know how the team may think about it and how doable this is
[01:12:43] * Dominus is only the documentation guy of the team not a programmer
[01:50:32] <Dominus> ok, I'm leaving now! (for 9 persons in the channel it was very quite lately) :-)
[01:50:36] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
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[04:42:38] <ashp> if (npc->get_schedule_type() != Schedule::duel)
[04:42:38] <ashp> {
[04:42:38] <ashp> Swap_weapons(npc);
[04:42:38] <ashp> Combat_schedule::set_weapon();
[04:42:47] <ashp> Why does that only apply to non-duels?
[04:42:56] <ashp> Surely in a duel, if they need to swap weapons, they should.
[04:44:32] <Wumpus> what does Swap_weapons do? pick your most powerful weapon?
[04:46:33] <Wumpus> oh i see, hm...
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[04:54:40] <ashp> I just can't see why it doesn't activate for duels.
[04:54:53] <ashp> Something doesn't work right, as Iolo just stands there, bow in hand, no ammo.
[04:55:01] <ashp> It should have a worst case fallback to "use hands"
[04:55:46] <Wumpus> actually hmm, now you mention it, i had some fun with Iolo when I was playing BG... he'd have ammo and all, but wouldn't do anything... hmm. but that was pre-beta...
[04:56:26] <Wumpus> perhaps the check has something to do with `target practice' as in SI's list field?
[05:00:15] <V0|D> brb
[05:00:29] <-- V0|D has left IRC ("()")
[05:00:40] <ashp> Wumpus: I'm guessing so. I had problems with the dueling this time.
[05:01:04] <ashp> They would go for the strongest guy, rather than the person training them.
[05:01:19] <ashp> Which caused a bit of a problem, luckily they were strong enough to defeat those, then move on to the other guys.
[05:02:08] <Wumpus> hehe
[05:06:09] <Wumpus> re Iolo, presumably he shouldn't be in a duel schedule in the first place, so that shouldn't be the problem there.... but ya never know...
[05:06:14] <Wumpus> lovely word, `presumably' :)
[05:09:56] <ashp> Well, if you train iolo
[05:10:01] <ashp> then he'll be in the duel schedule, surely?
[05:10:09] <EazyCheez> ashp: are you actually a girl who likes Exult? Wow I would never have thunk it... that has to be rare, to actually look at the technical side of things too
[05:10:15] <ashp> I'm male, sorry :)
[05:10:22] <EazyCheez> ahhh
[05:10:23] <Wumpus> oh, sure
[05:10:49] * Wumpus thought you meant iolo in the 'normal game world' was doing that... which was what i was observing... but in all likelihood, thats been addressed by now :)
[05:11:02] <ashp> Oh, he does it in the normal world too
[05:11:04] <ashp> iolo sucks :)
[05:11:10] <ashp> I think a fall back to fists would make the most sense.
[05:11:16] <Wumpus> hehe
[05:11:38] <Wumpus> iolo and dupre both suck... shamino is nice and quiet though, you can treat him as furniture :)
[05:11:56] <Wumpus> well, dupre only really sucks in SI, where he really needs to have a clue installed
[05:12:11] <ashp> Dupre vanished until I reached the wall of lights, for me :)
[05:12:27] <Wumpus> hehe, that was you? hmm
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[05:12:40] <ashp> Yeah, that's me. He finally came back, thanks to the monks
[05:12:56] <Wumpus> *Nod* odd
[05:13:31] <Wumpus> and you went to see marsten while he was still in the crematorium and all that? hmmm *Shrug* :|
[05:14:42] <ashp> yeah
[05:14:52] <ashp> The game's going ok at the moment. I'm in the castle with the banes
[05:14:57] <ashp> Just had to stop to install freebsd..
[05:15:05] <Wumpus> hehe :)
[05:16:01] <EazyCheez> haw
[05:16:09] <EazyCheez> the Hound of Doskar is clingy :)
[05:17:03] <Wumpus> clingy?
[05:17:14] <Wumpus> yeah, he hangs around indefinitely.... mine was forever in the foyer of SS :)
[05:17:37] <EazyCheez> SILVER SEED TIME
[05:17:39] <EazyCheez> WOO HOO
[05:18:26] <Wumpus> :)
[05:18:35] <EazyCheez> wow
[05:18:51] <EazyCheez> there's a damn big light party when you teleport there
[05:19:07] <Wumpus> hehe yeah, they went a little overkill there ;-p
[05:19:15] <EazyCheez> hehe yeah
[05:19:26] <EazyCheez> damn thing takes about 2 minutes in Exult :)
[05:19:47] <V0|D> how much CPU does exult take when you run it? on average
[05:20:12] <Wumpus> alll of it... not surprising on a P166 :P
[05:20:21] <Wumpus> all of it = as much as it can get, anyway :P
[05:22:03] <V0|D> what irc client do you prefer?
[05:22:35] <Wumpus> *** CTCP VERSION reply from Wumpus: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1
[05:22:39] <Wumpus> :-)
[05:23:23] <V0|D> whats that like? similar to bitchx i guess
[05:24:21] <Wumpus> supposedly more basic than bitchx, but I didn't like the relatively brief encounter i had with bitchx... but then, i've been using this for years now, so I've grown used to it :)
[05:24:35] * Wumpus is safely nestled in a few handy aliases and stuff :)
[05:25:08] <V0|D> ive been trying bitchx for most of today. usually i use a gui irc client. im not sure which one i prefer
[05:25:21] <Wumpus> hehe
[05:25:29] * Wumpus uses irc from the terminal too often to use a gui client
[05:25:59] <V0|D> at least its free and uses little resources :)
[05:26:21] <Wumpus> xchat is supposedly very nice, if you like guis...
[05:27:19] <V0|D> ill look into that. using a mac, ive become very used to ircle. it costs money and is a little buggy (just been ported to osx)
[05:28:21] <V0|D> what i miss mostly is a little window with a list of current users in a channel
[05:38:05] * Wumpus loves screen
[06:21:59] <-- EazyCheez has left IRC ("oWiRC version 0.73")
[06:22:30] --- Amy|work is now known as Amy
[06:36:04] <Amy> Wheeeee.
[06:41:45] <V0|D> hi amy
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[06:49:42] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[06:49:57] * Darke bows. "Hello all."
[06:55:01] <V0|D> hi
[06:56:22] <Amy> Heyo.
[06:57:21] <V0|D> how r u?
[06:58:47] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("Grr")
[07:01:28] * Darke wonders if V0|D is asking him how he is, if so, the answer is "As insane as usual." <grin>
[07:01:50] <V0|D> haha
[07:03:26] * Darke earperks, "For a more practical, and perhaps more common answer, it would be 'Good'."
[07:04:04] <V0|D> fair enuff
[07:36:02] <Amy> Well, the map editor testing went well.
[07:37:27] <Amy> The only real problem I've been running into (besides the random non-reproducable crashes) is the inability to place objects precisely.
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[10:06:35] * Darke notices that Wumpus has reentered the room. "Hello again." <bow>
[10:06:48] * Wumpus bows to darke, hello
[10:36:50] --> sbx has joined #exult
[10:36:55] <sbx> sbx!!!!!
[10:37:36] * sbx sweeps up his extraneous exclamation marks and dumps them on Darke.
[10:39:49] * Darke picks up an exclamation mark and nibbles on it. "So... do you regularly greet yourself when you arrive in a channel? <grin> Just curious."
[10:41:05] <sbx> I need to feel special. :D
[10:41:31] * sbx reads the log and screams.
[10:41:37] * sbx pulls his hair out.
[10:41:45] <sbx> Does freedman avoid me on purpose or something?
[10:41:48] <sbx> heh
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[10:45:56] <sbx> hi void!
[10:46:02] <V0|D> hello
[10:46:43] <V0|D> im trying to find a color for the background in my terminal...
[10:46:58] <V0|D> ive settled on orange with yellow text for the moment
[10:47:27] <Wumpus> eeek
[10:47:32] <V0|D> i used to have med-darkish blue wiht yellow text, but it got a bit hard on the eyes after a while
[10:47:34] --- sbx is now known as CH4R
[10:47:36] * Wumpus settles for good old white-on-black
[10:47:50] <V0|D> plus it was transparent, made it a bit harder
[10:48:03] <CH4R> V0|D: i have a wheat on darkblue xterm
[10:48:13] <CH4R> and rxvt
[10:48:14] <CH4R> and aterm
[10:48:17] <V0|D> wheat? whats that like
[10:48:24] <CH4R> no, dont have that color on aterm nm
[10:48:26] <V0|D> can i get a screen shot plx?
[10:48:42] <CH4R> just try it :)
[10:48:49] <CH4R> xterm -fg wheat -bg darkblue
[10:49:44] <V0|D> cant do that, macosx. colors dont have names...i dont think
[10:50:28] <CH4R> 245 222 179
[10:50:57] <CH4R> 0 0 139 dark blue
[10:51:01] <CH4R> first one was wheat
[10:51:26] <V0|D> thats very close to the yellow i have
[10:51:26] <CH4R> can get difficult to read with thin fonts tho
[10:51:29] <CH4R> oh
[10:51:46] <V0|D> actually, its not that close! whoops!
[10:57:17] <CH4R> or reverse of that looks ok too
[10:57:44] <CH4R> but i prefer dark bg if my eyes are tired
[11:02:13] <V0|D> hmmmm...ive had enough of blue backgrounds
[11:02:26] <V0|D> maybe orange bg and wheat fg!
[11:02:40] <CH4R> ...
[11:02:57] <CH4R> how about bright white bg and white fg!
[11:03:01] <CH4R> :O
[11:03:05] <CH4R> hehe
[11:03:09] <V0|D> hahaha
[11:03:11] <V0|D> no
[11:03:46] <CH4R> :\
[11:10:32] <Wumpus> 4,2red on blue is good for the eyes :P
[11:17:18] <V0|D> hahah hurts! turn it off! :)
[11:20:27] <V0|D> brb
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[11:25:41] <CH4R> hi
[11:25:44] <Colourless> hello
[11:27:30] * Darke bows. "Hello."
[11:29:29] <Colourless> so, what with the l33t 5p34k names?
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[11:46:14] * Darke thinks we still missing b001 at the very least.
[11:46:21] <Darke> Hi Fingolfin. <bow>
[11:46:21] <Colourless> hi
[11:46:26] <Fingolfin> hi
[11:46:33] <CH4R> hi
[11:46:41] <Colourless> whave about |N7 ?
[11:46:47] <Fingolfin> what's going on here these days??? :)
[11:46:54] <Colourless> or 5H0R7 ?
[11:46:54] <Fingolfin> so full...
[11:46:58] * Darke doesn't know. <grin>
[11:47:26] <CH4R> havnt seen dto speak for a while
[11:47:32] <CH4R> :-|
[11:48:01] <Fingolfin> D0U8L3 maybe?
[11:48:11] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[11:48:25] <Colourless> and F1047
[11:48:56] <CH4R> V0|D*
[11:49:15] <Colourless> bah, we already have a V0|D
[11:49:23] <V0|D> huh?!?
[11:49:33] <CH4R> but not a V0|D* :-)
[11:50:11] <CH4R> V0|D: im just being stupid
[11:50:16] <Colourless> well gee, we could go on forever like that. why not a V0|D*************** ?
[11:50:20] <V0|D> hehe
[11:50:37] <V0|D> because u can't have * in your nick...?
[11:50:38] * CH4R segfaults.
[11:50:39] <Colourless> of other thins like CH4R& ?
[11:51:43] * CH4R has a static address thank you. :P
[11:52:29] <Colourless> heh
[12:15:47] * Wumpus hits someone with a colour_t ****
[12:17:39] <Colourless> typedef struct colour_s {
[12:17:40] <Colourless> unsigned char r;
[12:17:40] <Colourless> unsigned char g;
[12:17:40] <Colourless> unsigned char b;
[12:17:40] <Colourless> unsigned char a;
[12:17:40] <Colourless> } colour_t;
[12:17:42] <Colourless> ????
[12:17:58] <Wumpus> indeed :)
[12:18:10] <Wumpus> except i have alpha instead of a, and skipped the colour_s :P
[12:18:43] <Wumpus> actually its only a ***...
[12:19:12] <Colourless> a pointer, to a pointer, to a pointer.... why?
[12:19:38] <Wumpus> each of a 2D array of tiles has a 256 colour palette
[12:20:13] <CH4R> a cube?
[12:20:24] <CH4R> colour cube
[12:20:40] <Wumpus> hehe no, not in this case :P
[12:20:44] <Colourless> can't you lay the tiles out linear?
[12:21:20] <Wumpus> well yeah, i suppose i could, but this makes writing out the 2D image easier
[12:21:49] <Wumpus> otherwise i'd have to do fun tricks with div and mod
[12:22:03] <Wumpus> hmm no, the other way round, but bah
[12:22:18] <Wumpus> *Shrug* it works... well, that part works.... another part doesn't, but i'm working on that :)
[12:22:19] <Colourless> i guess it depends on the number of tiles
[12:24:23] <Colourless> hmmm: In Germany, trademark suits can be filed by any attorney, even if that attorney doesn't represent the trademark holder
[12:28:31] <Fingolfin> hu? who claims that?
[12:28:37] <CH4R> Colourless
[12:29:16] <Colourless> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20020110/tc/suse_settlement_lets_linux_ship_1.html
[12:29:26] <CH4R> oh
[12:34:12] <Fingolfin> withouth having read the article yet: SuSE was sued, yeah, by an attorny who was representing the trademark holder for Crayon
[12:35:17] <Fingolfin> I think they misquoted her, or she talked nonsense
[12:35:56] <Wumpus> Crayon?
[12:36:01] * Wumpus hmms and oh wells
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[12:36:34] <Fingolfin> "The suit had been brought by attorney von Gravenreuth on behalf of Crayon Vertriebs, which produces a series of graphics CDs under the name 'Crayon.'"
[12:36:43] <Fingolfin> -> he was acting on their behalf, as the article quotes itself
[12:37:15] <Colourless> i guess she was misquoted
[12:37:17] <Corkus> anyone here ever heard of riva online?
[12:37:21] <CH4R> yes
[12:37:27] <Fingolfin> seems they are not very well informed at yahoo :) gosh, they should have read the article on this in the c't newsticker two days ago
[12:37:42] <Fingolfin> c't also was able to contact the attorney, which yahoo seems to have not been able to =)
[12:37:47] <Corkus> was that a yes to me or fingolfin?
[12:37:51] <CH4R> you
[12:37:54] <Corkus> oh :)
[12:37:58] <Corkus> is the server even up?
[12:38:01] <Fingolfin> =)
[12:38:01] <Corkus> i tried to login
[12:38:08] <Colourless> she probably meant that the attorny doesn't need to be paid by the trademark holder
[12:38:12] <CH4R> no idea i never played
[12:38:15] <Corkus> ah
[12:38:22] <Corkus> never mind then
[12:38:25] <Colourless> or similar
[12:38:30] <Corkus> ah wellz
[12:38:33] <Corkus> im off
[12:38:34] <Corkus> cyas
[12:38:36] <-- Corkus has left #exult ()
[12:39:06] * Wumpus wonders who that was :)
[12:39:08] <CH4R> i didnt know yahoo actually edited, added, removed news themselves
[12:39:13] <CH4R> thought it was all automated for them
[12:39:23] <CH4R> Wumpus: Corkus
[12:39:31] <Colourless> why did he come here?
[12:39:44] <CH4R> to ask me if riva online was working
[12:41:02] <Colourless> why 'here'
[12:41:17] <CH4R> because im here?
[12:42:29] <Fingolfin> you know you can privmsg?
[12:42:35] <Fingolfin> w/o even entering a channel
[12:43:29] <CH4R> yeah
[12:43:29] <Wumpus> but he didn't know you knew about riva online initially, apparently :P
[12:43:36] <CH4R> right
[12:43:52] <CH4R> i never met him before
[12:44:21] <Colourless> so then, why did he ask us about it?
[12:44:51] <CH4R> so he could get an answer
[12:45:06] <Colourless> well, he didn;t
[12:45:18] <CH4R> to the first question he did
[12:45:29] <CH4R> 50% success rate
[12:45:53] <Colourless> yeah, well, the question he really didn't want answered didn't get answered
[12:47:31] <CH4R> maybe thats for the best
[12:49:22] <Wumpus> :)
[12:52:12] <Fingolfin> http://www.macgimp.org/article.php?sid=86
[12:52:22] <Fingolfin> -> interesting, MacGimp and Fink developers are to meet at MacWorld...
[12:52:39] <Fingolfin> intersting, since I am project lead of Fink, and I had no idea about this, nor any of my team members I talked to....
[12:52:51] <V0|D> hahahah
[12:52:55] <CH4R> !
[12:52:56] <Wumpus> :)
[12:52:58] <Colourless> hehe
[12:53:14] <Colourless> it's probably 1 person... who works on both :-)
[12:53:59] * Darke snickers.
[12:54:24] <Darke> Colourless: With multiple personality disorder? <grin>
[12:54:28] <V0|D> bye
[12:54:32] <-- V0|D has left IRC ("()")
[12:55:06] <Colourless> heh, maybe :-)]
[12:55:40] * Darke considers that could also work with him. Join Darke to one project, and SharpTooth to another... <evilgiggle>
[12:58:58] <CH4R> now my nick is just pointless
[12:59:03] --- CH4R is now known as sbx
[12:59:45] <sbx> <:D
[13:00:51] <-- ashp has left IRC ("Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?")
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[13:48:02] <Wumpus> bed time for me
[13:48:07] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("zzz")
[13:48:11] <Colourless> cya
[13:49:17] <sbx> cya
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[14:37:36] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[14:37:44] <wjp> hi
[14:37:50] <Colourless> hi
[14:38:21] <wjp> http://linuxformat.co.uk/awards/
[14:41:05] <wjp> (check the "Best Game" category, if you hadn't guessed :-) )
[14:41:24] * Darke wonders if it's 'proper' to vote for exult... why not. <grin>
[14:41:31] <Colourless> i would, if the page would load :-)
[14:41:44] <Darke> It appears to be getting hammered. I've got it loaded.
[14:41:51] <sbx> hi wjp
[14:41:59] <Darke> And SF for best dev resource.
[14:42:19] * Colourless thinks, how am I going to answer all the questions, it's not like I have anything to do with most of them
[14:42:28] <-- Fingolfin|away has left IRC ("brb, hooking up my new hup")
[14:42:39] <wjp> hup?
[14:42:42] <wjp> hub?
[14:42:43] <sbx> hup?
[14:43:25] <sbx> Best Game: Loki?
[14:43:34] <Colourless> we are up against some pretty stiff competition
[14:43:35] <wjp> yes... interesting option :-)
[14:44:01] <wjp> kind of impressive to be listed against among those others in the first place
[14:44:06] <wjp> s/against //
[14:44:21] * Darke didn't even know were we _that_ high profile. Up against RtCW?!?
[14:44:23] <Colourless> yeah.
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[14:44:45] <Darke> And, of course, against everything Loki has ported to linux...
[14:44:59] <Fingolfin> hiya
[14:45:04] <Colourless> whats a hup?
[14:45:14] <Colourless> :-)
[14:45:22] <sbx> heh
[14:45:26] <wjp> the only hup I know is SIGHUP :-)
[14:45:30] <Fingolfin> yeah
[14:45:36] * sbx hups.
[14:45:37] <Fingolfin> I was doing a SIGHUP =)
[14:46:43] --- wjp has changed the topic to: USECODE! the secret Power of Ultima 7 (and Ultima 8!) and Exult! Or how to waste $ 3,080,278 ! Vote for exult at http://linuxformat.co.uk/awards!
[14:47:02] <Fingolfin> I am from the "Say 'No!' to b" party, you know... all the times I mix up deps and debs just pecause I am using poth... and so, I am following it all the way throgh.
[14:47:58] <Colourless> now seriously, do we have even a little bit of a chance?
[14:48:06] <wjp> we'll see :-)
[14:48:25] <Colourless> we need to put it on our webpage you know :-)
[14:48:32] <Fingolfin> do I have to fill it out all??
[14:48:40] <sbx> best OS project of the year wouldve been a good category
[14:48:52] * Fingolfin never used most of the stuff they offer as options
[14:48:55] <wjp> Fingolfin: no, you can leave out some of them. (I did)
[14:49:01] <Fingolfin> good
[14:54:20] <wjp> ok... time to update the webpage :-)
[14:55:07] * Darke considers someone might want to make a post in the forum about it as well... <grin>
[14:56:26] <sbx> someone might
[14:57:04] <Fingolfin> wjp: don't forget that the web page is now in CVS
[14:57:13] <wjp> Fingolfin: I know :-)
[14:57:18] * wjp just did a co
[14:57:38] <Fingolfin> I knew you'd say that, but you know, I gotta judge all people after how I am, and I bet I might have forgotten =)
[14:57:49] <wjp> :-)
[14:58:32] <wjp> brb
[15:02:06] <Fingolfin> hmm, fine, my network laser printer is working!
[15:03:30] <sbx> Hup!
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[15:07:44] <wjp> b
[15:07:54] <Colourless> wb :-)
[15:08:01] <wjp> thx :-)
[15:11:08] * Darke watches encrypted hand-shaking occurring.
[15:11:19] <wjp> ?! merge conflicts when doing a cvs update on the homepage?
[15:41:32] <Fingolfin|afk> hum?
[15:41:39] <Fingolfin|afk> somebody did edit files manually or what? :)
[15:41:41] --- Fingolfin|afk is now known as Fingolfin
[15:42:43] * Fingolfin wonders if it might be a good idea to use a proper XML parser for the conf stuff? :)
[15:43:24] * Darke considers it's tempting... but the problem is, it's not _really_ xml, that we want, afaict.
[15:46:42] <Darke> What I want, is a very simple, cut down database type thing. And I'm slowly moulding conf/ to DTRT in reguards to that. <grin>
[15:53:31] <Fingolfin> XML is not an alternative to a DB, dude. XML is just a storage format, which can be used for many things, e.g. config files, data streams etc, but in the end, it's just a container. A DB OTOH can be based on various backends, one of those being XML. Of course I wouldn't use XML for a huge DB, but for a small DB, like in our case, it is just fine
[15:53:42] <Fingolfin> in the end, any configuration file could be viewed as some sort of small DB
[15:55:55] <wjp> Fingolfin: (cvs web conflicts:) the conflicts were kind of weird... it looked like someone made changes in CVS and then made the same changes on the webpage
[15:56:16] <Fingolfin> which file(s) ?
[15:56:23] * Darke nods. He knows, he's just adapting the current 'tools' and using them for his own purposes. <grin>
[15:56:30] <wjp> several
[15:56:51] <wjp> ChangeLog, faq.dat, faq.txt, sfbug.jpg
[15:56:57] <wjp> docs.dat
[15:57:56] <Fingolfin> looks like Dom's changes
[15:57:57] <Fingolfin> hmm
[16:00:38] <Darke> Fingolfin: I'm modifying conf/ itself have accessors to it's xmltree that allow me to retrieve a 'record' (say every tag under config/game/blackgate), and then using that data, rather then having to do a single query on each specific tag. Which is what I added the somewhat generically named, Configuration::getpairs() function for.
[16:01:19] <Fingolfin> why "getpairs" ? i.e. what is that name meant to convey?
[16:04:29] <Darke> Like I said, it's 'generically' named. I have no idea how to make a 'short form' of "get every tag under the specified node and return it independant of the data pointing to exactly where it came from". ie. If you're trying to get all the data under "config/game" you'll get pairs of data {"blackgate/path, "path-data"}, {"blackgate/title", "blackgate"}... and so on.
[16:06:14] * Darke wants to use it to get all the data for a specific opcode (say "opcode/0x04") and pass it to a generic function that parses it and creates and returns a OpcodeData object, and it works for every opcode in the file, rather then having to do the 'root node' stripping himself. But it can be used for many things.
[16:07:23] <Fingolfin> so, you are not working on a user configuration file, but rather a data file for your disassembler?
[16:08:23] <Darke> I'm working on turning conf/ into a generic data file parser. That can be used for configuration files, game descriptor files for new games, just a generic file format 'parser' to be used with exult.
[16:10:55] * Darke just figured we've got enough different file formats already to deal with, and that having someone make a quick and dirty file format, everytime they need to store some data in a datafile (like he did), is probably less then optimal. <grin>
[16:12:32] <Fingolfin> ah ok
[16:12:44] <Fingolfin> well, actually that would back my suggestion to use a proper XML parser
[16:15:22] <sbx> Darke: have you been updating any docs in conf/ ?
[16:17:14] <Darke> sbx: I haven't added a mention of the comments in the README. AFAIK it's the only documentation other then the source.
[16:20:16] <Darke> Fingolfin: It might be worth it, it depends upon how difficult it would be to integrate it within the current system, and if it would add yet another dependancy to the project, which may not be particularly good. I'm not fussed about adding more dependancies, but IIRC others don't particularly seem to like the idea.
[16:21:01] <Darke> Fingolfin: Another thought is that it might be overkill for what we want it to do. <shrug> Don't know until we try it I suppose.
[16:21:29] <Fingolfin> I don't like outside dependencies either, but we could e.g. import expat into a module of our CVS, I've done so with another project (expat just being one example, since I have used it before :)
[16:21:31] <Fingolfin> well
[16:21:38] <Fingolfin> it was overkill for the conf file
[16:22:11] <Fingolfin> but what you are trying to do sounds as if we might want to consider using real XML; but anyway, since I don't have to use it currently, I am happy either way =)
[16:25:45] <Darke> <grin> I was toying with fixing the 'comments outside of the root node' problem today, but the solutions are non-trivial, and it's currently unimportant. I suspect we'll hit the point soon enough when I (or someone else) will try to do something that'll require a complete rewrite of the parser, at which point I think I'll give up and use something else.
[16:26:31] <sbx> Is <config></config> the root node?
[16:27:49] <Darke> <nod> Although you can specifiy it now, when opening a file... actually I need to add that directly to read_config_file too... I'd forgotten about that.
[16:30:25] <Darke> 'Fixed'. <grin> There's really not all that much documentation for conf/ either... <sigh> another thing to tack onto my list of 'things to document'.
[16:32:12] <sbx> hey... ucxt could stand for UseCode eXtracT
[16:32:39] <Darke> Anyway, I must be off. Sleep is calling. Night all!
[16:32:42] <sbx> :O
[16:32:43] <sbx> night
[16:32:44] <wjp> night
[16:32:48] <Colourless> cya
[16:33:13] <Darke> I think it was actually from UseCode eXTract, as in, silent 'e'. <grin> But it's so long ago I can't remember.
[16:33:22] <sbx> :D
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[17:09:28] <Colourless> sorting is a real, pain in the ass. though I am getting somewhere with it. an example, find the errors: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/sort.png
[17:11:24] <sbx> found it!
[17:11:40] <Colourless> where?
[17:12:44] <wjp> found one too
[17:12:47] <sbx> for one thing, table at left is above statue
[17:13:05] <wjp> and above wall
[17:13:15] <Colourless> didn't see that one myself
[17:13:18] <sbx> ya left leg
[17:13:20] <sbx> heh
[17:13:43] <Colourless> there are quite a few problems actually
[17:14:14] <Colourless> all occuring along the 'y' axis (top right to bottom left).
[17:14:14] <sbx> at top right, walls covering shrubs
[17:14:32] <sbx> i see
[17:15:14] <sbx> what would this have looked like a few days ago?
[17:16:15] <Colourless> different
[17:16:28] <Colourless> just a sec and i'll have a pic
[17:18:25] <Colourless> ok this is what it would have looked like: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/sort2.png
[17:19:14] <wjp> no, not entirely
[17:19:41] <wjp> (ie. my local copy is different)
[17:19:58] <wjp> s/my local/current CVS/
[17:20:57] <Colourless> i think current cvs has 'problems' :-)
[17:21:17] <Colourless> take a screenshot.
[17:22:21] <sbx> the avatar would truly be confused in that world
[17:22:59] <wjp> ...uploading...
[17:23:37] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/sort3.png
[17:24:24] <wjp> notice the tables and the eastern wall
[17:25:07] <sbx> im noticing a lot of things :)
[17:26:07] <sbx> but you guys have been doing pretty damn good with this Pentagram thing :P
[17:26:25] <sbx> (as in, fast implementation)
[17:27:08] * wjp had a lot of the code lying around for months...
[17:27:39] <Colourless> plus it's not exactly a game or anything. just a map viewer... with music in windows :-)
[17:28:19] * wjp mumbles something about it not being right that the windows version has more features...
[17:28:39] <Colourless> hehe
[17:28:40] <wjp> ;-)
[17:30:42] <Colourless> no wonder your's looked like that
[17:31:06] <wjp> broken dimensions?
[17:31:30] <wjp> (+broken sort, obviously)
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[17:32:25] <Cless> of course, till a few hours ago i didn't realise i was using the wrong multiplier for the real dims... i was using 16, when i should have been using 8
[17:32:57] <wjp> the whole multiplier thing is a bit strange
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[17:33:10] <wjp> the x,y coords seem to allow subpixel placement
[17:34:20] <Colourless> yeah
[17:34:48] <Colourless> i think though it's just coincidental
[17:36:01] <Colourless> the world is 3d and the collision detection 'cubes' are all 8x8x8, but projected on screen, it's smaller then that
[17:38:04] <Colourless> they could have used 4x4x8, or 4x4x4, but the first one is just awkward and the 2nd one looses causes 1z to project to 2 pixels on screen
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[17:48:53] <wjp> hi
[17:48:58] <sbx> hi
[17:49:01] <Colourless> hi
[17:49:04] <Kharza-kzad> gday :D
[17:49:52] <sbx> Exult has won a Best of Linux award nomination
[17:49:56] <sbx> or whatever
[17:50:13] <Kharza-kzad> cool
[17:50:17] <sbx> you probably already read the title though :-)
[17:50:25] <sbx> topic
[17:54:05] <Kharza-kzad> I think I broke something btw
[17:54:42] <Kharza-kzad> I had a very fellowship of the ring style situation, shamino got to play gandalf
[17:54:53] <Kharza-kzad> went under the mountains to get to minoc and poor shamino kicked the bucket
[17:55:04] <Kharza-kzad> I tried to pick him up and the body kinda vanished
[17:55:33] <sbx> :O
[17:55:42] <Kharza-kzad> and I think it messed up the boat, because the boat doesn't work now hehe
[17:56:12] <Kharza-kzad> Shamino didn't say "fly you fools!" though, he just fell down splat
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[18:48:41] <Colourless> bye all
[18:48:46] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("to quit i do")
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[18:54:51] <EazyCheez> haw
[18:55:00] <EazyCheez> why is that Rieya such an asshole
[18:55:23] <EazyCheez> (the first weird mage in Silver Seed)
[18:56:37] * sbx|away shrugs.
[19:51:05] <sbx|away> see you all later
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[22:14:55] <wjp> I wonder if my ISP would appreciate it if I registered a 'postmaster' alias for my mail address...
[23:07:23] <wjp> time to go
[23:07:23] <wjp> bye
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