#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 11 Jul 2001 (GMT)

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[04:12:39] <InfernalProteus> hi ?? is anyone there ?
[04:14:40] <matt0> yep
[04:15:08] <InfernalProteus> hi matt, I chanced on this room in a google search..
[04:15:18] <InfernalProteus> do you know anything about PS plugins ?
[04:17:53] <matt0> hi hehe
[04:18:03] <matt0> I don't know anything about them, sorry
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[08:11:18] <sty_work> hi
[08:26:06] <sty_work> what the hell...
[08:26:42] <sty_work> #include <stdexcept>
[08:26:42] <sty_work> #include <string>
[08:26:44] <sty_work> ???
[08:26:58] <sty_work> where's the .h ?
[08:39:44] <sty_work> aw scary :)
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[09:40:20] <sty_work> hi wjp
[09:40:30] <wjp> hi
[09:41:33] <sty_work> wouldn't you believe it's just my luck...(x4) no compile! (x4)
[09:45:37] <wjp> what happens?
[09:46:01] <sty_work> tryin' to compile cvs under cygwin
[09:49:00] <sty_work> think i'm lame
[09:51:09] <sty_work> g++ -mno-cygwin -mwindows -o tools/expack.exe tools/expack.o U7file.o Flex.o IFF.o Table.o Flat.o utils.o listfiles.o -mconsole
[09:51:37] <sty_work> usr/lib/mingw/libstdc++.a(floatconv.o)(.text+0x1244): undefined reference to `_imp___HUGE_dll'
[09:56:08] <sty_work> under windows no way to get a straight make :|
[10:00:14] <wjp> sorry, not a clue...
[10:00:32] <wjp> Kirben builds exult under cygwin. He may know how to fix this
[10:01:17] <sty_work> humm ... maybe i miss the DLL
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[10:09:41] <Nadir> hi all
[10:10:25] <sty_work> hi
[10:22:15] <wjp|busy> hi Tristan
[10:39:55] <sty_work> l8r ...
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[10:40:51] <wjp|busy> lunch; bbl
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[10:54:51] * Nadir is away: I'm busy
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[12:04:25] <sty_work> ave
[12:15:40] <Nadir> b
[12:23:59] * Nadir is back (gone 01:29:07)
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[12:47:17] <wjp|busy> Nadir: did you CC that mail to Tristan de Ines? (if he isn't on the ML?)
[12:50:43] <wjp|busy> never mind, he's subscribed to the ML
[12:50:53] <Nadir> oops, didn't.
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[13:21:57] <Nadir> hi colourless
[13:22:02] <Colourless> hi
[13:22:46] <wjp|busy> hi
[13:27:11] <Nadir> hmm, jeff's "server" code doesn't work on my system because configure detects getaddrinfo and the code that uses that is plain wrong
[13:32:22] <Nadir> undefining HAVE_GETADDRINFO made it work
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[13:47:16] <Dominus> hi
[13:47:21] <Colourless> hi
[13:48:04] <Dominus> hey guys, remember I said that in Exult stackable items stack in piles of 126? It stacks onto 127 :-(
[13:48:23] <Colourless> question: DOES IT MATTER!
[13:48:25] <Colourless> ;-)
[13:48:29] <Dominus> nope
[13:48:30] <Colourless> seriously, it doesn't
[13:49:21] <Dominus> but autostack would still be nice :-)
[13:49:51] <Colourless> i was under the assuption that it already did that... but I guess it doesn't
[13:51:40] <Dominus> itīs even a bit annoying with readied arrows/bolts
[13:51:52] <Nadir> Dominus: have you seen my comment on the mailing list about party formation being a FAQ ?
[13:52:21] <Dominus> yep, saw it, itīs one of those frequently asked things that I just always forget about
[13:53:11] <Nadir> Dominus: your job is to dig through the mailing list/forum/irc logs for any info related to that :)
[13:53:21] <Dominus> :-(
[13:53:28] <Dominus> Iīll make something up
[13:54:22] <Nadir> that's just being lazy !
[13:54:30] <Colourless> as often said it's a "feature"
[13:54:33] <Dominus> Nadir, did you see my comment about the todo list?
[13:54:57] <Nadir> yes. I'll have to sit through that list and add it to sf
[13:55:25] <Dominus> I think that way is better than to have the xml in the source
[13:56:19] <Nadir> you want me to use support request ?
[13:56:36] <Dominus> whatīs that?
[13:56:58] <Dominus> ahh, we already have some feature request somewhere, donīt we?
[13:57:28] <Nadir> feature requests are from users to developers. Support requests are the other way round
[13:58:00] <Dominus> ahh, donīt ask me, what do the others think?
[13:58:08] <Nadir> only jeff can modify the support requests page
[13:58:47] <Nadir> Dominus: but my idea is to have an XSL stylesheet to convert the TODO in a way similar to the FAQ and have it prominently added to the webpage
[13:59:37] <sty_work> WOW i made it !!! :) now i've a new exult.exe, and it's all mine, mine, MINE!
[13:59:38] <Dominus> oh, btw, I jsut had my first look at http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=6816
[14:00:31] <Dominus> interesting, never saw this stuff there
[14:02:11] <Dominus> especially this one : http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=115408&forum_id=6816
[14:03:33] <Colourless> what's so interesting about that one?
[14:03:44] <Colourless> He doesn't have U7 or SI, there's not much we can do
[14:03:55] <Dominus> dead project message answer
[14:04:22] <Colourless> we never go there
[14:04:31] <Nadir> the guy is an idiot
[14:04:40] <Dominus> he is
[14:05:03] <Dominus> I might add a note to that forum to see the jackchaos one for answers
[14:05:59] <Colourless> yeah
[14:08:19] <Nadir> SF user ids: wjp (9775), jsf (10931), dancer (18922), nadir (24754), colourles (41613), dominus (120905)
[14:08:50] <Nadir> (in chronological order, oldest one first)
[14:09:02] <Nadir> wjp was there before jsf !
[14:09:04] <Colourless> we should do it in alphabetical order
[14:09:07] * Dominus feels suddenly so young
[14:09:07] <Colourless> ;-)
[14:09:31] * Colourless notes that in alphabetical order, he comes first
[14:09:33] <sty_work> you make me feel like spring's sprugn .... dadap dadap
[14:10:22] <Nadir> oops, wrong wjp !
[14:10:32] <Dominus> and since when do we have this? http://sourceforge.net/survey/survey.php?group_id=2335&survey_id=10291
[14:11:11] <Colourless> since always
[14:11:13] <Nadir> wjpalenstijn (23042)
[14:12:01] <Nadir> fingolfin (12935)
[14:12:17] <Nadir> infidel (30442)
[14:12:31] <Nadir> jameson (25587)
[14:13:05] <Nadir> takhisis (2010) !!!!! (that is Patrick Burke)
[14:13:24] <Colourless> note in the Exult Developers list that WJP is the only person to actually have an assigned role, which is Developer
[14:13:53] <Dominus> whatīs up with infidel, netdancer and takhisis ? havenīt seen them around for ages (actually never, I think)
[14:14:32] <Colourless> somewhere that are some emails from netdancer, not sure if he's done anything
[14:15:02] <Colourless> infidel is MIA as far as I know
[14:17:02] <Nadir> exult/exult/usecode/ucxt is by Patrick I think
[14:17:56] <Nadir> netdancer was introduced by dancer I believe to write docs
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[14:18:27] <Colourless> yeah
[14:18:37] <wjp|busy> wjp was taken on SF :-(
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[14:20:31] <Colourless> I've no idea why, but I attempted to register as colourless, but one the registration was finished, it gave me the name colourles
[14:21:03] <sty_work> checkout sty :)
[14:22:23] <Nadir> 257093. pretty young :)
[14:22:33] <sty_work> yea, just a week ago :)
[14:22:45] <Colourless> make that 2
[14:22:51] <Colourless> 29th of June
[14:22:57] <Colourless> it's 11th of July
[14:23:00] <Dominus> :-)
[14:23:30] <sty_work> yea aproximately
[14:26:07] <sty_work> now i've a cvs snapshot! this rox
[14:28:16] * sty_work listens to ramones-blitzkrieg bop
[14:38:58] <sty_work> bug? avatar portrait don't have the monitor's tattoo
[14:39:31] <Dominus> yes it does, until the first save/restore
[14:42:30] <sty_work> and... when i'll get the pox ?
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[14:43:41] <Dominus> ages ago
[14:43:44] <sty_work> :)
[14:43:45] <wjp|busy> and I didn't even do anything...
[14:43:50] * wjp|busy pats exultbot
[14:43:51] <Colourless> about 2 minutes go for me
[14:44:00] <wjp|busy> return timer is 2 minutes :-)
[14:44:12] <Dominus> :-)
[14:44:31] <wjp|busy> (to avoid the connect floods I got a few weeks ago)
[14:44:46] <Colourless> ah
[14:45:27] <sty_work> this tattoo thing is a bug or a part of super-secret-usecode-flagz?
[14:45:43] <Colourless> bug
[14:46:08] <Colourless> and we don't know what flag controls the showing of the tatoo
[14:47:38] <sty_work> is there an usecode debugger?
[14:47:59] <Colourless> yes
[14:48:35] <sty_work> can i activate it during the gameplay ?
[14:50:48] <sty_work> yuh?
[14:51:27] <Colourless> not while the game is running
[14:51:59] <Colourless> it's only available in DEBUG build
[14:52:27] <sty_work> you mean debugging the executable
[14:52:35] <Colourless> from memory in debug builds the usecode intrinsic tracer should automatically run
[14:53:52] <Colourless> or you mightneed to set the config option debug/trace/intrinsics to yes
[14:54:22] <sty_work> it would be great to display a gump where you set the breakpoints into usecode , do step-by-step
[14:54:29] <Colourless> there is also a usecode opcode debugger which is activated by setting debug/trace/usecode to yes
[14:54:45] <Colourless> warning, the usecode opcode debugger outputs ALOT of text
[14:55:29] <sty_work> but you can't freeze the game , can't you ?
[14:55:55] <Dominus> when you press t or Esc or switch taks
[14:55:59] <Dominus> tasks
[14:57:08] <Nadir> under linux, with follow-focus, Exult pauses as soon as the mouse leaves the window
[14:57:49] <sty_work> yeah but it lacks of control
[14:58:59] <sty_work> i mean , imagine that you can stop THE GAME (not the executable) and work INSIDE the exult window debugging usecode :)
[15:00:01] <sty_work> it would be a great usecode-testing tool for eventually new plots
[15:00:58] <Nadir> Dominus: the other day you mentioned something about stderr.txt and stdout.txt. These files exist only under Windows. Under Linux these are output to the console where Linux is started from
[15:01:34] <Dominus> ahh, didnīt know that, thx
[15:01:51] <Colourless> the debug builds that I create with MSVC also output to the console
[15:02:03] <sty_work> so, for example, when i approach the tattoo-scene i can freeze and go step-by-step
[15:02:13] <sty_work> and watch every flag changes
[15:02:46] <Colourless> that's not really possible
[15:03:22] <sty_work> why?
[15:03:57] <Colourless> it would require a substantial change to the way exult operates.
[15:04:43] <sty_work> :o
[15:04:48] <Colourless> it's would just be easier to to get a dump of the usecode function and work out what it's trying to do
[15:05:25] <Colourless> adding a way to pause usecode execution would slow down exult quite a bit
[15:06:10] <sty_work> yea, but without proper tools we will never work out that "reserved" flags & ops
[15:07:14] <Nadir> sty_work: then go ahead and write an interactive usecode debugger
[15:07:45] <sty_work> yeah :)
[15:12:24] <Nadir> wjp|busy: were special item names embedded in the SI executable ?
[15:13:04] <Colourless> nadir: they are in one of the flexes but there isn't any indication as how to connect the special names to the shape frames
[15:13:44] <Colourless> we need to hard code which name goes to which shape and frame
[15:14:09] <Colourless> that's only for the special names, the generic names are fine
[15:14:18] <sty_work> i've just notice heavy rendering problems exploring the Furnace dungeon
[15:14:36] <Colourless> don't talk about rendering problem
[15:14:41] <Colourless> especially not in Furnace
[15:14:41] <Dominus> blackness?
[15:14:52] <sty_work> dominus: yeah :)
[15:15:09] <Dominus> this is all over SI
[15:15:13] <Colourless> we have no idea what to do there ;-)
[15:15:16] <Dominus> in the dungeons
[15:15:46] <Nadir> where is wjp adding the names ?
[15:15:49] <Dominus> aehm, caves and such
[15:16:04] <sty_work> did you notice that entering the black zone cause palette change ?
[15:16:14] <sty_work> maybe it's a different light zone !!!
[15:16:55] <sty_work> the actual routine maybe takes a light flag like a visibility flag
[15:17:50] <Colourless> lighting is a little broken in exult at the moment, but that isn't the issue that is causing problems in Furnace
[15:19:00] <sty_work> color: it happens when avatar approaches lava
[15:19:28] <sty_work> (a source of heat or light, dunno)
[15:20:02] <sty_work> i mean when it passes from a no-lava-in-sight zone in a lava-in-sight zone
[15:20:35] <Colourless> nadir: Game_object::get_name is the function it's in objs/objs.cc
[15:21:48] <sty_work> maybe there's a flag that you consider to be an out
[15:21:50] <Nadir> Colourless: that is horrible
[15:21:51] <sty_work> outside area
[15:22:06] <Colourless> sty_work: we don't really know
[15:22:11] <sty_work> (i.e. when you enter a mountain
[15:22:15] <Colourless> there doesn't appear to be any way
[15:22:25] <sty_work> the external land go blank and it's right)
[15:23:21] <wjp|busy> Nadir: objs.cc, around line 850
[15:23:22] <sty_work> but the "lava-zone" delimiter is considered by exult to be a visibility stuff
[15:23:33] <Colourless> no it's not, that's not the problem!
[15:23:50] <sty_work> check out by yourself
[15:24:13] <Colourless> I know how exult act in furnace, i'm there now.
[15:24:24] <Colourless> the problem has NOTHING to do with the lava
[15:24:28] <wjp|busy> the problem is that some areas in furnace are covered by mountains
[15:24:52] <wjp|busy> others are covered by special black tiles, but most of it is entirely uncovered
[15:24:54] <Dominus> sty_work: go to (0826,02be,00) and you see the same behavoiur even though there is no lava
[15:25:09] <Colourless> other areas have nothing at all
[15:25:17] <Colourless> ther areas with nothing are causing the problems
[15:25:22] <wjp|busy> Knight's test & Silver Seed had exactly the same problem, but we 'hacked' that
[15:26:02] <Colourless> maybe the problem could be fixed by looking at it at the chuck level, instead of the tile or superchunk level
[15:26:22] <Colourless> some of the chunks may be declared as being dungeons
[15:26:52] <wjp|busy> Colourless: yeah, that might just work
[15:27:53] <Colourless> it may also be wrong as well.
[15:28:13] <Colourless> it would appear that it's something that is SI specific
[15:28:23] <wjp|busy> didn't Jeff enable chunk-outlining recently?
[15:28:29] <Nadir> ues
[15:28:31] <Nadir> yes
[15:28:36] <Colourless> how?
[15:28:36] <wjp|busy> we could see if the chunk outlines match up with the mountain edges
[15:28:41] <Nadir> I can provide a screenshot
[15:28:43] <wjp|busy> I think in map-editor mode
[15:28:47] <Colourless> oh
[15:28:52] <Dominus> yep
[15:28:57] * Colourless can't use theh editor
[15:29:12] <Dominus> but you can see the lines
[15:29:23] <Nadir> Just press ctrl-alt-m
[15:36:46] <Colourless> oh wow, it works
[15:37:09] * Colourless had to recompile
[15:38:01] <Colourless> from a first quick look, the monitor dungeon is chunk aligned
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[15:39:05] <wjp|busy> are the bright areas at the entrance aligned to the chunks?
[15:39:44] <Colourless> no, i've got half a chunk here
[15:40:00] <wjp|busy> :/
[15:40:27] <wjp|busy> pity, I was hoping that this might fix them being a few tiles inside the dungeon instead of at the edge
[15:40:40] --- wjp|busy is now known as wjp
[15:40:50] <Colourless> mostly it is occuring on chuck edges
[15:41:36] <Colourless> there was just one at loc dec 1350,2727
[15:41:41] * wjp is still recompiling
[15:41:45] <Colourless> which was a half a chunk
[15:43:06] <Colourless> at 1966,2745 things are pretty bad, the black section are all over the place with no clear pattern]
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[15:44:22] <Colourless> i was hoping there would perhape have been a pattern with the chuck flat numbers, but there doesn't appear to be
[15:45:05] <sty_work> i can't teleport using f2
[15:45:32] <Colourless> no you can
[15:45:33] <Colourless> 't
[15:45:46] <sty_work> how can i
[15:46:05] <Colourless> F3 or Ctrl-Alt-T
[15:46:16] <Colourless> you'll have to get to places manually
[15:46:28] <Colourless> Alt-T isn't bad either
[15:47:02] <sty_work> what's the place 1966,2745 ?
[15:47:04] <Dominus> and a quick glance at F2 shows you your hex coords
[15:48:20] <sty_work> <Colourless> at 1966,2745 things are pretty bad,
[15:48:31] <sty_work> aproximately what zone
[15:49:17] <Colourless> i could inly describe it as the mushroom garden in furnace
[15:49:52] <sty_work> i know that place ...
[15:50:02] <sty_work> i'm teleporting there immediately
[15:51:14] <sty_work> uhm
[15:52:22] <sty_work> that's crazy :)
[15:54:17] <Nadir> it looks like there is a roof there
[15:54:53] <wjp> you can easily check in those full game world maps, btw
[15:55:21] <Dominus> go just outside of this to the beach and you see the reversed effect
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[15:55:51] <Nadir> how do I change the skip lift ?
[15:55:57] <wjp> alt-l
[15:56:57] <Nadir> It does look like there is a roof there. Maybe transparent ?
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[16:00:04] <Dominus> wb
[16:00:19] <Nadir> Hmm. I just type Ctrl-Q to quit ExultStudio but I still had focus in X-Chat...
[16:00:53] <Dominus> with skip lift you can disable all this blackness but you donīt have anymore roofs :-(
[16:03:55] <wjp> I'm going home
[16:03:57] <wjp> see you later
[16:04:10] <Dominus> bye
[16:04:10] <sty_work> so do i
[16:04:13] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
[16:04:20] <sty_work> bye
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[16:05:42] <Dominus> Nadir: I guess, that the areas with blackness have actually no roof, meaning they are not covered by mountain, therefore Exult colors them black when you are inside of the mountain/dungeon
[16:07:25] <Dominus> hello? still there?
[16:09:47] <Nadir> yep
[16:10:12] <Dominus> what I wrote seems plausible
[16:10:16] <Nadir> I agree with you
[16:12:13] <Dominus> the tricky part would be to enable this blackness for the normal outside world and disable it for those inside mountains
[16:13:58] <Nadir> I seem to remember Jeff doing quite a bit of work getting that sort of right
[16:14:31] <Nadir> ah, it was ryan
[16:14:44] <Nadir> (from Credits - Colourless, roof removalist)
[16:15:40] <Dominus> not so sure that effect with all black outside when entering a mountain was added much later
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[16:21:04] <Nadir> hi col
[16:21:27] <Colourless> hi. lost my connection and didn't even know it
[16:21:47] <Nadir> Colourless: read the logs. I believe dominus has discovered the reason for the black areas
[16:22:03] <Colourless> i already know that.
[16:22:10] <Nadir> ah
[16:22:26] <Nadir> did you do the black in dungeon thing ?
[16:22:40] <Colourless> set exult to a really high res, example 800x600, and use the arrow keys to look at the area when you are not in it
[16:23:01] <Colourless> Jeff did the black in dungeon thing
[16:23:22] <Colourless> it's very obvious that there isn't any roofs over most of the dungeon
[16:24:32] <Colourless> i wrote the code to just properly pop the roofs
[16:24:48] <Nadir> ah
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[16:26:07] <Nadir> he's back !
[16:26:14] <Nadir> then it's still jeff's fault :)
[16:26:30] <wjp> umm? :-)
[16:26:34] * wjp checks logs
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[16:29:33] <Nadir> wb
[16:29:48] <Colourless> hmm, i'm not sure if this is something, but there is 1 unused bit for every shapeid in the chunks. this bit MIGHT be used to indicate a dungeon area, i'm not sure though, the bit could really be anything, or just might be unused
[16:30:47] <Nadir> quick. write some code to check that ! :)
[16:31:14] <Colourless> yeah, I was just going to
[16:31:57] <wjp> Nadir: did you catch the location of the item names, btw
[16:31:58] <wjp> ?
[16:32:12] <Nadir> yes
[16:32:22] <wjp> feel like doing the rest? ;-)
[16:32:31] <Nadir> nope :)
[16:32:41] <wjp> :/
[16:32:44] <wjp> :-)
[16:43:48] <Colourless> the bits are seemingly meaningless
[16:45:47] <wjp> I guess that would've been too easy ;-)
[16:46:02] <Colourless> yep
[16:50:41] <Colourless> the black stuff used for mountains is usually frame 12 of one of the mountain shapes (969 for example).
[16:50:57] <wjp> yeah
[16:52:08] <Colourless> Shape 183 is also a mountain shape with a frame 12, but it's frame 12 is only 1x1 pixels
[16:52:41] <Colourless> i don't think that's got anything to do with the problem though
[16:55:32] <Colourless> take a look at shape 448 frame 12
[16:55:49] <Colourless> in SI
[16:56:10] <wjp> umm
[16:56:24] <wjp> looks like programmer art :-)
[16:56:28] <Colourless> sure does
[17:01:08] <Nadir> got to go. bye
[17:01:10] <-- Nadir has left IRC (I feel like dumping a core)
[17:01:24] <Dominus> me too
[17:01:25] <Dominus> bye
[17:01:29] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Got to play Exult now)
[17:06:53] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:13:08] <Colourless> interesting....
[17:14:16] <Colourless> there actually appears to be some sort of roof over those chunks. It's just completely transparent
[17:14:58] <Colourless> i say that because roof pooping occurs
[17:16:15] <Colourless> yeah, there is something there
[17:16:24] * Colourless has no idea though
[17:18:38] <Colourless> idea what shape it is
[17:27:30] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[17:28:03] <wjp> crazy idea: make the shape drawing function also output the shapenum on the spot where it draws the shape
[17:28:45] <wjp> will be _very_ messy, but it might just give enough info in some areas
[17:29:19] <Colourless> yes it would
[17:30:13] <wjp> or maybe output a list of items on the console on the spot where you click
[17:30:41] <Colourless> dump all chuck items would be easier
[17:30:55] <wjp> true
[17:37:38] <Colourless> roof:394:0
[17:37:39] <Colourless> roof:394:0
[17:37:39] <Colourless> roof:394:0
[17:37:39] <Colourless> roof:394:0
[17:38:04] <wjp> hmm, interesting
[17:38:20] <Colourless> that's the one
[17:38:30] <Colourless> completely invisible
[17:39:42] <Colourless> now to see how to fix the problem
[17:45:33] <Colourless> 'tis SI specific
[17:48:20] <Colourless> FIXED!
[17:48:30] <wjp> great!!
[17:49:00] <Colourless> it also removes the need for the other hacks
[17:49:39] <Colourless> of maybe not
[17:50:24] <wjp> 'mushroom garden' looks good now
[17:51:12] <Colourless> silver seed was ok, but knights test has problems
[17:51:52] <Colourless> scratches his head, I can tell why too
[17:52:01] <Colourless> Chunk Contents:
[17:52:02] <Colourless> lit sconce:435:0
[17:52:02] <Colourless> waterfall:941:0
[17:52:02] <Colourless> roof:394:0
[17:52:02] <Colourless> roof:394:0
[17:52:02] <Colourless> roof:394:0
[17:52:04] <Colourless> wall:972:6
[17:52:06] <Colourless> wall:972:6
[17:52:08] <Colourless> wall:972:6
[17:52:10] <Colourless> wall:972:6
[17:52:12] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:14] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:16] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:18] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:20] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:22] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:24] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:26] <Colourless> wall:256:0
[17:52:28] <Colourless> TFA[1][0-6]= 0
[17:52:31] <Colourless> notice that there are only 3 394's and a waterfall?!?
[17:52:45] * Colourless checks out shape 941
[17:53:03] <Colourless> very much a mountain shape
[17:53:06] <wjp> mountain top
[17:53:20] <wjp> don't think I've ever seen it
[17:53:28] <Colourless> Silver Seed
[17:54:03] <wjp> yeah, looks like it
[17:55:44] <Colourless> knights test works now too
[18:03:12] <wjp> nice... looks like you figured it out :-)
[18:03:59] <Colourless> committed
[18:06:15] --> sty has joined #exult
[18:07:17] <Colourless> hey sty, i just fixed the rendering problems in furnace
[18:09:40] <sty> what was about ?
[18:11:07] <sty> Colourless: what the problem was ?
[18:11:28] <Colourless> the game says you are in a dungeon if you are under a mountain shape. the thing is in certain areas the mountain shapes were completely invisible so we didn't know they were there so Exult didn't know the shapes were actually mountains.
[18:11:42] <Colourless> hopefully that made some sense
[18:13:06] <sty> i've said it before, and i'll say it again: exult team rocks!
[18:16:38] <sty> did you put the fix in the CVS ?
[18:17:07] <Colourless> yeah I have
[18:17:29] <sty> i've started the refresh 5 mins ago
[18:20:30] <sty> are all those specs writed somewhere ?
[18:24:08] <sty> Colourless : may i ask you a personal thing ?
[18:24:42] <Colourless> sure
[18:25:15] <sty> what developement tools do you use under linux ?
[18:25:24] <wjp> umm :-)
[18:25:28] * Colourless laughs
[18:25:32] <wjp> undefined
[18:25:46] <sty> i mean , what editor ...
[18:25:50] <Colourless> you should ask someone else that question
[18:25:58] <Colourless> I use MSVC in Windows 2000 ;-)
[18:26:11] <Colourless> very much not Linux
[18:27:10] <sty> i've alway used Ultraedit32 + bcc 5.5
[18:27:17] <sty> :)
[18:27:38] * wjp uses emacs
[18:27:46] <wjp> (and make + gcc)
[18:27:54] <sty> i'm using linux starting to 5-6 months ago
[18:27:59] <wjp> and gprof, and gdb, and... :-)
[18:28:25] <sty> what about Vim ?
[18:29:14] <wjp> what about it? :-)
[18:29:41] <wjp> I use it for editing small files, or remotely editing
[18:30:12] <wjp> (yes, I use _both_ vi _and_ emacs ;-) )
[18:30:13] <sty> but do you use emacs in textmode or in windowedmode ?
[18:30:28] <wjp> windowed
[18:31:30] <wjp> (not xemacs, though)
[18:32:07] <sty> ah, textmode under X-terminal :)
[18:32:23] <wjp> no, really windowed
[18:32:39] <wjp> xemacs != emacs
[18:33:20] <wjp> there's an X version of emacs too...
[18:33:25] <wjp> (kind of confusing, I know :-) )
[18:34:21] <sty> i'm just getting serious with this OS , before i was just playin' :)
[18:35:18] --> fingolfin has joined #exult
[18:35:23] <fingolfin> hiya
[18:35:29] <Colourless> hi
[18:35:29] <fingolfin> ?ashp
[18:35:33] <fingolfin> ?colourless
[18:35:36] <fingolfin> ?wjp
[18:35:38] <fingolfin> hmm
[18:35:41] <fingolfin> ?name
[18:35:41] <exultbot> Greetings Avatar. I am called Exultbot.
[18:35:44] <fingolfin> ?job
[18:35:44] <exultbot> My job is to write down everything you say.
[18:35:49] <fingolfin> ?bye
[18:35:49] <exultbot> Goodbye, Avatar.
[18:35:52] <fingolfin> ;)
[18:36:13] <fingolfin> ryan: didnīt exultbot know more in the past?
[18:36:41] <fingolfin> wjp: are you the one in charge of the autoconf/automake system, or whom can I bug else about it?
[18:36:45] <wjp> hi Max
[18:36:59] <Colourless> fingolfin: eh, maybe
[18:37:01] <wjp> fingolfin: for compliments: me, for bugs: Tristan ;-)
[18:37:27] <wjp> fingolfin: seriously though, what's the problem?
[18:38:05] <fingolfin> wjp: i havenīt tried for a couple of days under OS X, but last time I was unable to ./configure
[18:38:17] <fingolfin> I am cvs updating & autogening ATM
[18:38:27] <fingolfin> so, where is tristan then? =]
[18:38:50] <wjp> oh, you're using 2.50 right?
[18:39:44] <wjp> (autoconf)
[18:39:54] <sty> wha'ts wrong with it ?
[18:40:06] <sty> configure: error: can not find install-sh or install.sh in . ./.. ./../..
[18:42:57] <wjp> sty: autogen.sh should generate that
[18:43:51] <wjp> fingolfin: what were the problems with configure.in again?
[18:44:10] <sty> thanx
[18:45:34] <fingolfin> mom, pls (phone)
[18:52:24] <fingolfin> ok, so running autogen.sh gives me this:
[18:52:33] <fingolfin> usage: rm [-dfiPRrW] file ...
[18:52:33] <fingolfin> You should add the contents of `/sw/share/aclocal/libtool.m4' to `aclocal.m4'.
[18:52:33] <fingolfin> automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh'
[18:52:33] <fingolfin> automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
[18:52:34] <fingolfin> automake: configure.in: installing `./missing'
[18:52:36] <fingolfin> configure.in:17: warning: AC_CANONICAL_BUILD invoked multiple times
[18:52:38] <fingolfin> configure.in:107: error: AC_REQUIRE: cannot be used outside of an m4_defun'd macro
[18:52:40] <-- sty has left IRC (Ping timeout for sty[])
[18:52:40] <fingolfin> configure.in:107: AC_PROG_CPP is required by...
[18:52:42] <fingolfin> configure.in:107: the top level
[18:52:56] <fingolfin> a) rm is used without properly checking the arguments... makes me wonder what else besides errors I could get? ;)
[18:53:03] <fingolfin> s/errors/warnings
[18:53:38] <fingolfin> the configure.in error can be "fixed" by removing the according line, but I guess this is not a real fix, erhm... but I know not enough to properly fix it
[18:53:51] <fingolfin> removing that line gives an error in anohter line, lemme try...
[18:54:23] <wjp> AC_CANONICAL_BUILD can go without a problem, I think
[18:56:06] <fingolfin> You should add the contents of `/sw/share/aclocal/libtool.m4' to `aclocal.m4'.
[18:56:07] <fingolfin> automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh'
[18:56:07] <fingolfin> automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
[18:56:07] <fingolfin> automake: configure.in: installing `./missing'
[18:56:07] <fingolfin> configure.in:17: warning: AC_CANONICAL_BUILD invoked multiple times
[18:56:07] <fingolfin> configure.in:110: warning: AC_PROG_LEX invoked multiple times
[18:56:09] <fingolfin> configure.in:131: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_PROG_CXX_WORKS
[18:56:12] <fingolfin> configure.in:132: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_PROG_CXX_GNU
[18:56:16] <fingolfin> uhm
[18:56:18] <fingolfin> that after commenting out line 107
[18:56:26] <fingolfin> which does not contain AC_CANONICAL_BUILD, BTW
[18:56:52] <wjp> we're not using the output from CANONICAL_BUILD, anyway, so you can just remove that
[18:56:55] <wjp> (line 17, that is)
[18:57:23] <fingolfin> ok, but I get an error on this line:
[18:57:31] <fingolfin> AC_REQUIRE([AC_PROG_CPP])
[18:57:42] <wjp> yeah, I know
[18:57:43] <fingolfin> commenting it out *seems* to work
[18:57:48] <fingolfin> ok sorry ;)
[18:57:53] <wjp> I'm trying to figure out what it's supposed to do
[18:58:03] <fingolfin> hehe
[18:58:25] <wjp> ugh, from the 2.50 info page:
[18:58:35] <wjp> To ensure backward compatibility, Automake's `AM_PROG_LEX' invokes (indirectly) this macro twice, which will cause an annoying but
[18:58:53] <wjp> benign "`AC_PROG_LEX' invoked multiple times" warning. Future versions of Automake will fix this issue, meanwhile, just ignore this message.
[19:01:18] <wjp> those last two (PROG_CXX_*) are a bit weird
[19:02:51] <wjp> try this:
[19:03:38] <wjp> in the second 'if test -z "$CXX";' block, replace the AC_CHECK_PROG(...) by a AC_PROG_CXX, and then remove the two AC_PROG_CXX_*
[19:03:48] <wjp> (around line 116)
[19:05:00] <wjp> hmm, I don't have a clue what that first block is doing
[19:05:48] <wjp> the AC_REQUIRE([AC_PROG_CPP]) can go, I guess
[19:05:56] <wjp> doesn't seem to do anything useful for us
[19:14:49] --> matt0 has joined #exult
[19:17:35] <wjp> fingolfin: still here?
[19:18:17] <fingolfin> sorry
[19:18:19] <fingolfin> argh
[19:18:28] <fingolfin> phone and my mom are distracting me constantly ;)
[19:18:34] <wjp> :-)
[19:19:23] <wjp> I got a working configure.in here, but I killed the part necessary for it to find the right c++ compiler on alpha/debian
[19:22:54] <wjp> I can get it working in 2.50, but not backward-compatible to 2.13
[19:23:16] <fingolfin> maybe we should ask regarding the AC_REQUIRE([AC_PROG_CPP]) on the mailing list... to discover who did it and why ;)
[19:23:16] <fingolfin> or wait, there is a CVS command to discover who changed what line when, right?
[19:23:57] <wjp> I think it would be pretty safe to remove it
[19:24:23] <wjp> - Macro: AC_REQUIRE (MACRO-NAME)
[19:24:30] <wjp> If the `m4' macro MACRO-NAME has not already been called, call it
[19:27:09] <fingolfin> ok
[19:27:44] <wjp> I'm tempted to include a AC_PREREQ(2.50) ;-)
[19:28:52] <fingolfin> "<wjp> in the second 'if test -z "$CXX";' block"... I assume you mean the block checking for g++ ?!?
[19:29:18] <wjp> yeah
[19:29:20] <fingolfin> (I have gcc here BTW, but it is called cc not gcc, as it is the vendor compiler; and some apps choke on that, because they are badly written ;)
[19:30:01] <wjp> you might just want to remove the whole block of 'test -z' things
[19:30:23] <wjp> (113-133 or something)
[19:30:33] <wjp> and remove the whole lot by AC_PROG_CXX
[19:30:36] <wjp> replace, even
[19:30:40] <fingolfin> well, I can, but as long as I donīt understand what I am doing exactly, and as long as I canīt gurantee that I wonīt break other platform, I rather donīt do it in CVS ;)
[19:30:53] <wjp> no, you'd better not commit it :-)
[19:30:56] <fingolfin> (ok, breaking some minor platform, e.g Linux, wouldnīt hurt so much I guess ;)
[19:31:12] <wjp> you'll likely break linux/alpha, but that's about it
[19:31:21] <fingolfin> after commenting out (and changing the g++ thingy like you mentioned it first) worked fine
[19:31:23] <fingolfin> it seems
[19:31:29] <fingolfin> now to ,/configure
[19:31:33] <wjp> wait
[19:31:43] <wjp> you also need to add AC_CANONICAL_TARGET at the top
[19:31:44] <fingolfin> sir, aye, sir!
[19:31:49] <wjp> ;-)
[19:31:56] <fingolfin> ah of course, that is obvious
[19:31:57] <fingolfin> ...
[19:31:58] <fingolfin> hu?
[19:31:59] <fingolfin> ;)
[19:32:17] <wjp> so, you have AC_CANONICAL_{HOST|BUILD|TARGET} around the top somewhere
[19:32:22] <fingolfin> at the top top or after/before the other AC_CANOCICAL_??
[19:32:29] <fingolfin> ok
[19:32:30] <wjp> around the other CANONICAL's
[19:32:34] <fingolfin> what does it do?
[19:32:46] <wjp> stop libtool from complaining :-)
[19:32:51] <fingolfin> ahh ok!
[19:33:27] <fingolfin> btw, I really need to learn a bit about this. did you print out the autoconf/automake docs once, or where did you learn it? by looking at other files? or by looking at other files and sometimes lookgin at the docs? ;)
[19:34:01] <wjp> I went through the exult configure.in while looking everything up in the docs
[19:34:18] <fingolfin> ok, and who did the initial configure.in then? tristan?
[19:34:23] <wjp> yeah
[19:34:45] <fingolfin> btw, the rm -f commands in autogen.sh give me sometimes errors, I guess exactly when īfindī returns nothing
[19:35:03] <fingolfin> maybe we should add some if/fi around there, just to stop the warnings
[19:35:14] <fingolfin> I prefer having no warnings at all if possible
[19:35:44] <wjp> rm -f works fine for me without any arguments
[19:35:52] <wjp> (ie. no warnings)
[19:38:54] <wjp> hmm, it removes 'autoconfig.h.in' instead of 'config.h.in'
[19:39:54] <fingolfin> hehe
[19:40:05] * fingolfin notices his mouse wheel works under X on X and is astonished
[19:40:11] <wjp> does 'rm -f non_existant_fie' work for you?
[19:40:18] <fingolfin> now I get an error telling me I havenīt installed SDL 8-)
[19:40:20] <wjp> s/fie/file/
[19:40:25] <fingolfin> lemme try
[19:40:34] * fingolfin also checks if he has SDL installed or not ;)
[19:40:43] <wjp> :-)
[19:41:00] <fingolfin> that works, but "rm -f" gives me a usage desc
[19:41:03] <fingolfin> and that is what I meantr!
[19:41:11] <fingolfin> rm -f īfind <bla bla>ī
[19:41:11] <wjp> it _what_ ?
[19:41:46] <fingolfin> where find returns nothing, then "rm -f" is excecuted, which then prints out "usage: rm [-dfiPRrW] file ..."
[19:41:50] <wjp> anyway, you could just move two of the files from the first lists to the rm -f `find's
[19:41:58] <fingolfin> yeah ;)
[19:42:12] <wjp> or add the find's to one of the earlier commands
[19:42:44] <fingolfin> indeed no SDL installed! woa!
[19:42:46] * fingolfin changes that
[19:43:28] --- fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|dinner
[20:15:37] --- Fingolfin|dinner is now known as Fingolfin
[20:15:47] <wjp> wb
[20:15:57] <Fingolfin> thx
[20:16:12] <Fingolfin> in fact, dinner is over for some time already, but I was discussing some stuff over here ;)
[20:16:18] <wjp> :-)
[20:17:29] <wjp> ugh... what a mess....
[20:17:36] * wjp just wrote a small U8 map viewer
[20:17:43] <Colourless> what?
[20:17:53] <Colourless> oh
[20:18:02] <Colourless> what is the mess?
[20:18:08] <wjp> no object sorting
[20:18:21] <wjp> I just draw them in the order they appear in the files
[20:18:46] <wjp> ...which is a rather interesting order :-)
[20:18:49] <Colourless> sorting isometric is easier than u7. it's generally just front to back
[20:19:16] <wjp> some of these maps are really huge
[20:19:52] <Colourless> so, why did you make a u8 map viewer?
[20:20:01] <wjp> just felt like it :-)
[20:20:11] <Colourless> i see.
[20:20:23] <wjp> not planning on doing anything with it
[20:21:09] --> freedman has joined #Exult
[20:21:15] <wjp> hi
[20:21:22] <freedman> Hi!
[20:21:32] <Colourless> hi
[20:21:33] <freedman> Colourless: Congrats for fixing the dungeons.
[20:21:57] <Colourless> thx
[20:22:19] <freedman> wjp: Going to reverse-engineer U8?
[20:22:28] <wjp> freedman: nah :-)
[20:22:56] <Colourless> he'll just start to make a u8 map editor and then get lots of other people to do the work
[20:22:59] <Fingolfin> hi jeff
[20:23:04] <wjp> lol
[20:23:12] <freedman> :-) Hi Fingolfin
[20:23:13] <Fingolfin> lol
[20:23:23] <wjp> interesting idea :-)
[20:23:26] <Fingolfin> exult? isnīt that an U7 map viewer or so? ;)
[20:23:45] <freedman> Yes, and it was finished 2 years ago.
[20:23:51] <Fingolfin> cool ;)
[20:24:16] <freedman> And the "Ex" is for X-windows
[20:24:29] <Colourless> was it completed? As far as I know, the object drawning order isn't completely correct
[20:25:05] <freedman> True...
[20:27:36] <Fingolfin> wjp: BTW, ./configure run fine now after I installed SDL :)
[20:27:42] <wjp> freedman: how's the map-saving going?
[20:27:50] <wjp> Fingolfin: :-)
[20:27:57] * Fingolfin remembers submiting / assigning a bug regarding rendering to some guy some time ago ;)
[20:28:19] <freedman> It's almost done. I just need to limit saves of IFIX's to those that have changed.
[20:28:40] <freedman> I may have a small demo patch by tomorrow.
[20:29:14] <freedman> Have you tried the 'chunks' browser? You can build your own island.
[20:29:34] * Colourless has just had an idea
[20:29:44] <Fingolfin> jeff: what exactly are the requirments of exult studio? anything ebsides X/Unix/GTK ?
[20:30:02] <chimera|wookin> some guy was in here a few nights ago asking about photoshop plug-ins hehe
[20:30:06] <freedman> Just libglade
[20:30:23] <Colourless> at the moment we only have section in config for Black Gate and Serpent Isle, both can be patched.
[20:30:24] <wjp> chimera|wookin: yeah, I read it in the logs... I guess these pages are popular with google :-)
[20:30:27] <freedman> ...and that needs some xml lib.
[20:30:35] <Colourless> of in the future both will be able to be patched
[20:30:43] <Colourless> s/of/or/
[20:31:16] <freedman> Colourless: both should be patchable by tonight.
[20:31:17] <Fingolfin> jeff: libglade & gnome & gimp all run fine over here........
[20:31:47] <freedman> Fingolfin: Then it should work, in theory:-)
[20:31:56] <Colourless> however, i was thinking that we should allow for new 'games' to be defined that are actually modification based on the originals, but they use a separate section of the config to specify their dirs
[20:32:18] <freedman> Colourless: Yes, definitely
[20:32:22] --> Dominus has joined #Exult
[20:32:32] <chimera|wookin> wjp: oh yeah, I forgot about the "spy" hehe
[20:32:48] <Dominus> almost all here, cool, Hi all
[20:32:50] <freedman> Hi Dominik
[20:33:00] <Colourless> hi
[20:33:04] <wjp> brb
[20:33:53] <Colourless> freedman: the idea is simply to allow for more than one 'game' to access the same static dir and have more than one patch dir
[20:34:22] <Colourless> let me rephrase that
[20:34:27] <freedman> Yes. Should be easy.
[20:34:41] <Colourless> same static dir and separate patch dirs
[20:35:17] <freedman> Yes. Should be able to specify 'static', 'savegames', and 'patch' separately for each game. Will that work?
[20:35:21] <Fingolfin> hi dominik
[20:35:42] <Fingolfin> have you guys read the post about multi user service?
[20:35:46] <Dominus> Hi
[20:36:12] <freedman> Fingolfin: ?
[20:36:18] <Colourless> we should kind of change the way the <DIRNAME> system works
[20:36:34] <freedman> Agreed.
[20:36:50] <wjp> b
[20:37:02] <Colourless> <DIRNAME> should directly come a config value, or some approprate default
[20:37:10] <Colourless> come FROM a
[20:38:12] <freedman> You mean we shouldn't be deriving them like we do <STATIC>? If so, I agree.
[20:38:12] * wjp nods
[20:38:23] <Colourless> the config value for <DIRNAME> would be config/disk/game/GAMENAME/DIRNAME
[20:39:14] <freedman> Right. And 'static' and 'savegames' should be separate, esp on Unix systems.
[20:39:35] <wjp> yeah
[20:40:12] <Fingolfin> jeff: nm, forget what I said . I am completly out of sync with this channel ATM, sorry
[20:40:35] <wjp> hmm, JackChaos down :/
[20:40:40] <chimera|wookin> doh!
[20:41:11] <freedman> Yes, all morning. Hope it's not permanent.
[20:41:26] <Dominus> must be because I directed the sf-forum users to Jackchaos :-)
[20:41:49] <freedman> :-)
[20:42:03] <Colourless> it was up earlier
[20:42:11] <wjp> people were using the sf-forums?
[20:42:17] <freedman> Hey, Gamasutra has an article on porting to MacOSX
[20:42:19] <Colourless> earlier being about 6 hours ago
[20:42:19] <Dominus> yep
[20:44:10] <Dominus> btw, Colourless, mountains look nice now in SI, thx
[20:46:53] <Fingolfin> ok, I canīt compile some stuff, it fails in conf/, reason is it tries to link with SDL (-lSDL) which fails. Reason for that is that for me SDL is in /sw/lib, but exult seems to only consider /usr/local/lib
[20:47:35] <freedman> It should be using sdl-config to get the path.
[20:47:37] <Fingolfin> maybe I should check some other apps how they determine the lib paths, exult hardcodes them in configure.in it seems?!?
[20:47:38] <Fingolfin> hm
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[20:58:27] <Fingolfin> daphne, isntīt that the laserdisc thingy written by matt?!?
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[21:03:04] <wjp> well, you sure took your time to get back! ;-0
[21:03:10] <wjp> s/0/)/
[21:04:39] <Fingolfin> hi wjp ;)
[21:04:45] <Dominus> and now what?
[21:04:47] <Fingolfin> hnm we kist heff ;)
[21:04:50] <Fingolfin> argh
[21:04:52] <Fingolfin> we lost jeff
[21:04:55] <Fingolfin> darn keyboard ;)
[21:05:10] <wjp> seems there's still some server lag...Jeff left minutes ago
[21:05:14] <Fingolfin> now, anybody object if I remove all the fundamental-mode refs from the various .cc/.h files?
[21:05:25] <Fingolfin> no server lag
[21:05:38] <Fingolfin> but I am switching between virtual consoles to see this chat
[21:05:49] <Fingolfin> and I do some "real" work, too
[21:05:57] <wjp> Fingolfin: please do :-)
[21:08:55] <Fingolfin> I was about to commit everything when i remembered my evil hacking in configure.in ;)
[21:09:33] <wjp> you know... autoconf 2.50 defaults to using configure.ac, while autoconf 2.13 defaults to configure.in
[21:12:54] <Fingolfin> so you mean we could provide both, one for 2.5 and one for 2.13 ?
[21:13:01] * wjp nods
[21:16:51] <Dominus> have to go to bed for a change
[21:16:55] <Dominus> bye
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[21:16:58] <wjp> bye
[21:17:51] <Fingolfin> hm, I also should go now, I write an exam tomorrow after all ;)
[21:18:02] <wjp> good luck tomorrow
[21:18:06] <Fingolfin> but exult compiles fine
[21:18:08] <Fingolfin> thx
[21:18:09] <Fingolfin> cya
[21:18:10] <wjp> bye
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