#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 11 Jun 2002 (GMT)

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[00:03:28] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[00:17:29] <freedman> This 3D stuff is tricky.
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[00:18:33] <Dominus> Kirben: as I understand from the logs you HAVE to use gcc 3.1 for compiling Exult now?
[00:41:03] <Dominus> also, you are asking people to download binutils-2_12_90-info-html.tar.gz, shouldn't that be the actual bin utils?
[00:49:44] <Dominus> and what about sdl_mixer?
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[02:10:47] <Kirben> Dominus: yes gcc 3.1 is required
[02:11:08] <Kirben> Dominus: that was a mistake, will fix readmes
[02:11:49] <Kirben> Dominus: so far I have not created an sdl_mixer package, is only needed for 1.1.0cvs branch. I can dcc files if you want.
[02:11:58] <Dominus> Kirben. could you try setting your exult.cfg in tag <audio><enabled> to no
[02:12:06] <Dominus> and start exult
[02:12:17] <Dominus> Kirben: i have the files
[02:12:20] <Dominus> thx
[02:12:31] <Kirben> Try with which version of exult ?
[02:12:47] <Dominus> when you edit the readme, the order of the packages is important
[02:12:55] <Dominus> try the unstable
[02:13:38] <Kirben> crashes
[02:13:57] <Dominus> ok, I'm going to report this to ML then
[02:14:53] <Dominus> had a hard time figuring u why it crashed for me after building for the 1st time with gcc 3.1
[02:15:10] <Kirben> Dominus: was there a problem with the order of packages in readme ? or do you mean I should make a note about the order been important ?
[02:15:49] <Dominus> I think the gcc 3.1 should be last
[02:16:49] <Dominus> I'm not exactly sure if it is important but some of those packages have the same files
[02:16:56] <Dominus> mingw packages
[02:17:02] <Kirben> I know, I thought it was best to take the binutils files over the gcc 3.1 files.
[02:17:47] <Dominus> then better make a note that order is important
[02:18:45] <Dominus> what about gimp-dev-libs for the gimp plugin?
[02:22:12] <Kirben> Well I doubt anyone would want to compile it.
[02:22:23] <Dominus> he he
[02:22:50] <Dominus> ok, then
[02:23:28] <Dominus> also, is it normal for tool compile still crapping out?
[02:23:40] <Kirben> yes
[02:23:49] <Dominus> ok, then
[02:24:04] <Kirben> mingw no longer supports the getopts unfunction used in ucmain.cc
[02:24:24] <Dominus> thought someone fixed it :-)
[02:25:33] <Kirben> no, it won't be easy to fix by the sounds of it.
[02:25:57] <Dominus> ugh, doesn't sound good
[02:41:06] <Dominus> I wonder why my built is 200kb smaller than your snapshot
[02:42:11] <Kirben> exult or es ?
[02:42:23] <Dominus> exult
[02:42:44] <Dominus> haven't compared es
[02:43:02] <Kirben> If it is 1.1.0cvs I'm using a static sdl_mixer lib which adds to overall size.
[02:43:27] <Dominus> that coul be it
[02:44:25] <Dominus> I think for the main/unstable branch you could add those sdl_mixer libs to the readme.win32
[02:45:33] <Kirben> I'm still hoping to go with a dynamic sdl_mixer lib eventually, once installer is updated.
[02:45:55] <Dominus> ok, then waiting it is :-)
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[05:40:43] --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/. Exult Release Candidate 2 has been released!
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[07:08:24] <sb-x> somethings wrong with opn
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[08:03:16] * Ember yays! Things are back up.
[08:03:48] * Ember hmms, her tail flicking behind her. Whilst a dragon is certainly appropriate, perhaps it's not the most optimal form.
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[08:09:52] <wjp> hi
[08:09:57] <Darke> Hi.
[08:10:13] <Darke> I'm surprised exultbot is still on. It's been a rough day on openprojects.net. *grin*
[08:37:03] <wjp> hm, no more service DB rollback I hope?
[08:37:58] <Darke> Nope. It looks like the original db has just been reinstated too. There was a wallop mentioning something about it an hour or so ago, IIRC.
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[11:48:49] <Kirben> does gcc 3.1 still have getopt.h on other systems ?
[11:49:06] <wjp> don't know
[11:52:48] <wjp> I suppose it does, or Nadir/Darke would probably have removed it already
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[12:02:12] <Colourless> hi
[12:02:14] <wjp> hi
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[15:00:12] <Fingolfin> yo
[15:00:20] * Fingolfin is at university
[15:00:20] <wjp> hi
[15:00:23] * wjp is too :-)
[15:00:28] <Fingolfin> we WON :-)
[15:00:31] <wjp> you won?
[15:00:53] <wjp> world cup? student CS competition?
[15:00:53] * Colourless is confused
[15:02:16] <Fingolfin> cup )(
[15:02:16] * Colourless is actually updating the pentagram classes.txt to contain some details about the classes and maybe even some reasoning for their existance
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[15:33:53] <wjp> hi
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[15:34:09] <Colourless> hi
[15:34:09] <Dominus> hi
[15:38:34] <Dominus> I wonder why when you play SI and start ES, ES loads the blackgate stuff
[15:39:06] <Colourless> cause it's broken
[15:39:10] <Colourless> :-)
[15:39:26] <Dominus> ah, okay :-)
[15:39:58] <Dominus> was that answer just because, or is there specific knowledge in your answer ? :-)
[15:40:13] <wjp> since recently or always?
[15:40:55] <Colourless> it's broken, that much is obvious. why it's broken, i don't know
[15:41:06] <Colourless> it used to work
[15:41:11] <Dominus> recently, it worked befor, it crashed befor
[15:41:30] <wjp> I may have screwed something up with switching from getopt to args
[15:41:35] <Dominus> ES with SI is just not working properly most of the time
[15:52:54] <wjp> time for me to go home
[15:52:54] <wjp> bye
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[15:53:03] <Dominus> bye
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[16:15:02] <wjp> hi again
[16:15:10] <Dominus> wb
[16:15:19] <Colourless> wb
[16:15:35] <wjp> thx
[16:58:52] <Colourless> i've got 'only' 21 hours left on my download :-)
[16:59:16] <Dominus> hm, that's not too bad :-)
[17:00:38] <Colourless> that's another 270 mb :-)
[17:08:45] <wjp> 3Kb/s?
[17:09:04] <Colourless> 3.75 at the moment
[17:17:37] <Colourless> i shouldn't think that once it's all downloaded that getting exult to work with Pocket PC would be that difficult. but, getting exult to be playable with PPC is going to be mighty interesting :-)
[17:17:55] <Dominus> he
[17:18:12] <wjp> yes, creating an intuitive interface will be very interesting
[17:19:09] <Colourless> exactly
[17:20:16] <Colourless> thinking about a button system similar to what U6 used
[17:20:26] <wjp> with a current 'mode', right?
[17:20:34] <Colourless> yeah
[17:20:41] <wjp> like the UWs used too
[17:20:53] <Dominus> that will truly be interesting...
[17:20:59] <wjp> what exactly are the input capabilities?
[17:21:09] <wjp> touchscreen? touchpad? buttons?
[17:21:30] <Colourless> 2 buttons and the stylus.
[17:21:55] <Colourless> stylus is used by touching the screen
[17:22:14] <wjp> and there's only one type of 'click' possible with the stylus, I guess?
[17:22:21] <Colourless> yeah
[17:22:37] <Colourless> as far as I know
[17:22:53] <wjp> ok, so you'll need ways to differentiate between left/right-clicks
[17:23:02] <wjp> also, keyboard commands
[17:23:18] <wjp> any idea how text input is done, generally?
[17:23:22] <wjp> (for savegames)
[17:23:54] <wjp> does it use a palm-like system?
[17:24:33] <Colourless> well normally the pocket pc uses handwriting recognition as far as I know, and it can also have an on screen keyboards. but neither of those functions are avaliable when using the ppc2002 game api
[17:25:06] <Colourless> i was thinking of creating a mini on screen keyboard for input
[17:26:07] <Dominus> well, the shapes for that mini keyboard are there (if they are small enough
[17:26:37] <Dominus> and if not they can be made easily by ES :-)
[17:29:40] <Colourless> yeah I know. the pocket pc interface will probably need to be mostly created by us
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[18:34:01] <wjp> hi
[18:34:10] <omeros> hello
[18:34:18] <Colourless> hi
[18:34:42] <Dominus> hi
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[18:55:35] <bj0ern> hi
[18:55:43] <wjp> hi
[18:56:26] <Colourless> hi
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[19:00:34] <wjp> morning
[19:00:50] <Darke> Hi.
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[19:59:48] <Colourless> concept shot of pocketpc savegump with on screen keyboard: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/pocketpc.png
[20:01:40] <Darke> Ooooh.
[20:07:59] <wjp> neat :-) Want me to produce shapes from it again like last time? :-)
[20:08:16] <Colourless> not yet :-)
[20:08:18] <wjp> what do you want to do with the shift, btw? :-)
[20:08:51] <Colourless> i was thinking of using autogenerated buttons.
[20:09:42] <wjp> yeah, probably best
[20:09:47] <Colourless> The word ones would of course require shapes though, but all that can wait. i'm just working out what things should look like at the moment
[20:11:45] <Colourless> the one problem i noticed with the layout in my concept is the keyboard is down the bottom, but the input field is up the top. i was thinking of the possibility of flipping the order of the savegump items with newest at the bottom and oldest up the top
[20:16:02] <Colourless> alternatively the keyboard could be placed at the top, but normally from what i've seen of things on ppc the extra interface components are placed at the bottom
[20:17:01] <Colourless> regardless, it should be simple enough to have options for both. i was thinking of moving the keyboard over to the left a little, and adding some options buttons on the right side
[20:17:58] <Darke> If you can have the input field at the top on PC and on the bottom on the PPC it'd be 'ok'. It's just having the input field at the bottom would be unintuitive on the PC.
[20:18:48] <Colourless> pc version wouldn't change
[20:20:13] * Darke nods. No problem.
[20:20:13] <Colourless> of course people, if they really wanted to, could probably enable PPC mode in normal exult.
[20:21:11] <wjp> would you make it a compile-time or a run-time option?
[20:21:29] <Colourless> good quesion. i'm undecided.
[20:21:31] * Darke considers our bug reports then, "The PPC mode doesn't work properly!". Is this PPC/PC or PPC/PPC? *grin*
[20:22:01] <wjp> don't forget ppc can also mean powerpc :-)
[20:22:17] <Colourless> yep, i know that. it's why i generally say pocketpc :-)
[20:22:26] <wjp> so you have ppc/mac, ppc/pc, ppc/ppc :-)
[20:22:42] * Darke snickers.
[20:25:47] <Dominus> that interface looks good
[20:26:11] <Colourless> i have a feeling this will very much be a disruptive, destabilizing change to exult. probably best we don't mention it to the users... best way of doing that is by putting it in the faq ;-)
[20:26:36] * Darke laughs.
[20:27:00] * Dominus waves to exultbot
[20:27:50] <Dominus> what will you do about keyboard combinations?
[20:29:13] <Colourless> depends on the combo in particular
[20:30:12] <Colourless> the extra interface for the PocketPC will have buttons to perform certain shortcuts, but it will be impossible to include all of them
[20:30:29] <Dominus> that'S what I thought
[20:30:56] <Dominus> maybe have multiple button bars that cn be switched by a standard button in it
[20:30:57] <wjp> maybe we should add a cheat menu or something
[20:31:38] <Colourless> it's possible
[20:32:34] * Colourless has a feeling the current Help Scrolls will be somewhat useless
[20:33:00] <Dominus> yeah
[20:37:37] <Colourless> makes me think that once i've got it all working. it wold be a good id to #ifdef out all of the stuff that simple will not work with a PowerPC since it would be a waste of resources
[20:39:06] <Dominus> that's agood idea
[20:41:14] * Darke nods. Agreed.
[21:12:41] <bj0ern> for what? exult?
[21:13:41] <Dominus> now that I look at it, I wonder what there is in the code that a PowerPC couldn't handle :-)
[21:13:49] * Darke was just about to correct that too. *grin*
[21:14:22] <bj0ern> exult compiles flawlessly on my PowerBook G4 with Debian Linux
[21:14:22] <Dominus> bj0ern: for the PocketPC version of Exult that is not even developed only brainstormed
[21:14:48] <bj0ern> whats PocketPC?
[21:15:04] <Darke> Colourless just made a typo above, 'PowerPC' should have been 'PocketPC'.
[21:15:15] <Colourless> ah yeah. oops :-)
[21:15:22] <bj0ern> ahhh, ok ;)
[21:15:29] <Dominus> he he
[21:15:32] <Darke> That thing that people occasionally want support for on the forums. *grin* It's a handheld 'PC' like a palm.
[21:15:46] <bj0ern> nice
[21:15:54] <Colourless> but better than a palm. more memory, colour screen, faster cpu
[21:15:56] <Dominus> with a screen of about 240x320
[21:16:19] <bj0ern> would be cool to play U7 while sitting in a train, or at work during the breaktime =)
[21:17:21] <Colourless> of course the 'bad' part some people would say, it's the pocketpc was developed by microsoft and it's os is WinCE
[21:18:10] <bj0ern> thats evil
[21:18:16] * Darke boos and hisses. Just because _someone_ needs to. *grin*
[21:18:49] * Dominus cheers for Microsoft: another score for the coming Empire :-)
[21:19:00] <bj0ern> there is a new Linux PDA too. with 64 MB, and 240x320 color screen, but i forgot the name
[21:19:09] <-- Dominus was kicked from #exult by wjp (watch it ;-))
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[21:19:14] <bj0ern> what a dark empire this will be
[21:19:16] <Dominus> damn
[21:19:56] * Dominus slaps wjp with a large MS symbol
[21:20:47] <wjp> heh, I'm immune to that :-)
[21:20:54] * bj0ern sees wjp crumble to dust
[21:20:55] <wjp> penguin protection :-)
[21:21:11] <Dominus> :-)
[21:21:19] <bj0ern> i run windows too :/
[21:24:16] * Darke 's singular windows box also has 'penguin protection' in the form of the firewall sitting in front of it. *grin*
[21:28:29] <Colourless> it's really about time i left
[21:28:42] <Dominus> sleep well
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[21:44:13] <Darke> Hi.
[21:44:39] <Dominus> hi
[21:45:23] <Fingolfin> hi
[21:45:24] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[21:46:36] <wjp> hi
[22:15:54] <Dominus> Fingolfin: did you take a look at the MacOSX bug about the spellbook?
[22:16:02] <Fingolfin> no
[22:30:11] * Dominus is going to watch Farscape episode 4x01 now :-)
[22:31:09] <Fingolfin> hmm
[22:31:26] <Fingolfin> that would be nice to watch...
[22:31:28] <Fingolfin> but I better go to bed now =)
[22:31:35] <Dominus> it is very nice :-)
[22:31:42] <Dominus> sleep well
[22:31:44] <Fingolfin> Farscape rocks
[22:31:51] <Fingolfin> thx, cya folks
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[22:31:51] * Dominus nods
[22:40:36] <wjp> hey, Neverwinter Nights has gone gold
[22:40:44] <Dominus> oh, wow
[22:41:11] <wjp> didn't know it was planned for a release anytime soon
[22:41:39] <Dominus> me neither, I thought it would take some more ages to finnish
[22:43:51] <wjp> and apparently there really is a linux version
[22:44:12] <wjp> "Linux gamers can anticipate the online release of the Neverwinter Nights server at launch and the client program shortly afterward.
[22:44:12] <Darke> Wow. I might actually acquire that game if there is.
[22:44:21] <wjp> Linux gamers will still need the Windows version of the game to register at the Neverwinter Nights community site nd to import essential game resources into their Linux server and game."
[22:44:29] <wjp> how... peculiar
[22:45:19] <Darke> Looks like they have't ported 'all' of the code over, just the essential bits. *grin*
[22:46:01] <Darke> Unless they're just referencing how you need to own a windows copy, so you can download and use the server/client linux copies.
[22:47:58] <Darke> s/download and use/use the downloaded/
[22:48:23] <wjp> I hope so :-)
[22:50:20] <wjp> ok, it's way too late again...
[22:50:22] <wjp> night
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