#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 11 Nov 2002 (GMT)

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[00:27:50] <-- Curryous has left IRC ()
[00:30:35] --> Jammet has joined #exult
[00:30:42] <Jammet> Hiya ...
[00:30:57] <Dominus> hi
[00:31:12] * Jammet paws in looking somewhat confused, scared, sad, and just utterly down for now.
[00:31:19] * Jammet waves to Dominus ...
[00:42:42] * Dominus watches a horrible movie called "Das Experiment" (the experiment). A german movie and it is quite exciting
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[00:49:08] <Jammet> Maybe I'll look for it later... for now I feel ill.
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[00:52:01] <Dominus> what is it?
[00:53:09] <Jammet> Been friends with a girl since '96, and since half a year she's turned around and ignores me totally. And I have no idea why. But it makes me sick.
[00:53:19] <Dominus> :(
[00:53:27] <Jammet> And I just noticed today just how much refusal and ignorance I am facing there.
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[01:42:02] <Dominus> hi dancer
[01:42:42] <dancer> Afternoon. I'm currently still wafting about in my coffee. Phone's been going all morning.
[01:43:04] <Dominus> still mighty busy?
[01:44:18] <dancer> Actually, I wish I was busier, in a way. It seems to take a lot of effort to keep myself busy enough. Which makes me busier than I would be if I was busier. Does that make any sense?
[01:44:34] <Dominus> kind of
[01:45:04] <dancer> In short, to keep cash coming into the household, I've got to work several times harder than if I had a full-time job.
[01:47:09] <dancer> Amazing how a 20-25hr week job can eat 80+hrs.
[01:47:19] <Dominus> :(
[01:47:42] <dancer> Still, it'll be a big week this week. Got two visitors from the regional office in Singapore to support.
[01:49:18] <Dominus> that is always interesting
[01:50:22] <dancer> Keeps me off the streets. I've also got piles of faulty hardware to replace. Had three hard-drives, two printers, a monitor, 2 PSU's and a laptop die on me last week.
[01:50:41] <Dominus> phew
[01:51:17] <dancer> The laptop died four hours after it was put in front of the new owner. Alas, that was 1000kms away.
[01:51:40] <Dominus> that sucks
[01:52:23] * dancer is providing sole IT/IS support for four offices up to 2000kms apart. In the branches there's nobody who can set an IP address (or tell one from an email address), install a printer driver, or operate a screwdriver without risking serious injury.
[01:53:02] <dancer> And _we_ don't know how their networks or systems are set up. That was done before my predecessor's time.
[01:53:20] <Dominus> that sounds rather interesting
[01:54:19] <dancer> All too typical, alas. It's not a huge departure from what I'm used to.
[01:55:28] <dancer> Thankfully the new linux desktop systems are making life easier. Every Windows user moved over to one requires no more than about 30 minutes per month in support.
[01:56:10] <Dominus> I guess once on linux they can't break much
[01:56:39] <dancer> Essentially. And it doesn't break anything for them.
[01:56:59] <dancer> No crashes, no problems, and it does everything they're used to.
[01:57:31] <Dominus> and saves the company a shitload of money in license fees
[01:58:28] <dancer> A major motivating factor. The company can't have more than about 5 windows licenses and I think only has the one office license. At $660 and $730 respectively, we're talking a lot of money.
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[01:59:08] <dancer> Those are AUD$ of course.
[01:59:43] <Dominus> still enough money
[02:00:32] <dancer> Yup. In 3 months or so, I hope to have it down to about six or eight machines that will still be running on Windows. We'll get those duly licensed, and we can relax.
[02:01:31] <Dominus> I really think MS is making a big mistake in their licensing
[02:04:35] <dancer> Well, the biggest mistake that I can see is that in a few months the company will no longer be able to just buy the necessary licenses. MS is already withdrawing Windows from the shelves. Buy with a new PC or don't buy.
[02:06:02] <Dominus> it might be more costly ONCE for a company to switch to linux but in time this investment pays off
[02:06:38] <Dominus> that said I'm a happy masochist in using Windows XP :-)
[02:11:39] <dancer> Actually, it's not really costing them a lot at all. I've got the expertise in both systems. So it's costing them nothing extra to make the change.
[02:13:01] <Dominus> I'd think that the switching might cost them some work time of the users but that is hard to calculate
[02:17:15] <dancer> Around ten minutes. I prep the installation on a drive, fit it while they're on lunch, put their old drive in another machine (to recover any files if needed, and to become the _next_ system), and boot up. Takes about ten minutes to walk a user through, after that they don't need any more help.
[02:17:41] <Dominus> :-) got me there then
[02:18:48] <dancer> They tell me they're finding it friendlier and easier to use than Windows. Can't quite figure that one out. Probably because it runs faster on the same hardware, I'm guessing; and because it looks prettier.
[02:18:49] <Dominus> I'm certainly not trying to see advantages in MS then :-)
[02:19:25] <dancer> OUCH!
[02:20:07] <dancer> Just miscalculated the cost of MS Office. It's $1288AUD per seat.
[02:20:17] <Dominus> wow
[02:20:35] * Dominus thinks he will try to take over MS and cash in all that money..
[02:20:46] * dancer was looking for the cost of Outlook licenses ($284).
[02:22:00] * Dominus would really hate to install Outlook on any office pc
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[02:26:12] <dancer> Yeah. The SunServer tech was in the office this-morning. He called and said "We really need MAPI-compatible mailers for the new software. Some of these are running Mozilla. Some are running Netscape". I said "Yes. We're eliminating Outlook from the office for security reasons. Those apps talk MAPI just fine.". He said "Oh. We've umm...actually only _tested_ with Outlook." I ask him "Do you know how _much_ Outlook costs per seat?" He admits
[02:26:13] <dancer> e doesn't. I suggest he finds out and supplies a quote before talking to our CFO and asking for fresh Outlook licenses.
[02:27:00] <Dominus> he
[02:29:31] * dancer didn't know either, which is why I was looking it up.
[02:29:51] <dancer> Gotta scoot. Shower, then into the office.
[02:30:01] * dancer will be back later.
[02:30:03] <-- dancer has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
[02:30:17] <Dominus> he he
[02:30:29] <Dominus> I think Jeff and Dancer are the same person
[02:30:45] <Dominus> :-)
[02:31:00] <Dominus> well, I'm off as well
[02:31:07] <Dominus> bye
[02:31:10] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
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[03:04:10] <blair> hiya~
[03:09:09] <blair> hmm
[04:31:21] --- Darke|zzZ is now known as Darke
[06:12:07] <blair> hmm..
[06:12:12] <blair> anybody here?
[06:17:52] <Kirben> yes
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[06:28:01] <Colourless> hi
[06:29:05] <Darke> Hi.
[06:33:51] <Colourless> weather forcast for adelaide tonight: 30 degrees at midnight :-) oh, how i just *love* Adelaide summers
[06:37:58] * Darke snickers. Brisbane summers are better. Two to three days of agonising heat, followed by the next day being just as hot until about 2-3pm, then suddenly masses of clouds roll in, dropping the temp from 30+ to 20ish, followed by pouring rain and a few nicely temperate days. Then repeat. *grin*
[06:38:21] <Colourless> today, right now, it is 38
[06:38:40] * Darke had just actually been looking out the window at the masses of clouds when you mentioned that. *grin*
[06:38:45] <Darke> Sounds... err... 'warm'. *Grin*
[06:41:09] <Colourless> just a little bit. air conditioning is nice
[07:02:02] <blair> hiya~
[07:02:10] <Colourless> hi
[07:02:21] <blair> nice to meet you Colourless :)
[07:03:58] <blair> Colourless where r u from? :)
[07:04:07] <Colourless> Adelaide, Australia
[07:04:25] <blair> oh.. :)
[07:04:37] <blair> I'm from Republic of Korea. :)
[07:14:58] --- Darke is now known as DarkeAFK
[07:37:35] --- DarkeAFK is now known as Darke
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[07:54:07] <Colourless> later
[07:54:08] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[07:54:30] <jtool12> hello
[07:54:33] <jtool12> :)
[07:59:59] <Darke> Hi.
[08:05:56] <jtool12> Hi
[08:06:09] <jtool12> would you know how to get in tought with Simon Quinn?
[08:06:15] <jtool12> touch
[08:07:51] <Darke> Email? His address is on the 'About Us' page on exult.sf.net.
[08:17:44] <jtool12> ok cool, thanks
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[08:56:51] <Jammet> Hiya. ...
[08:56:59] * Jammet mews warmly.
[08:57:11] <blair> hi
[08:57:40] <Jammet> I've just read the original plot for Ultima 9 ... whoa.
[08:58:45] <Jammet> The game they have released ... so much cut into pieces, so crippled compared to the ... old storyline, I can't believe the game turned out to be that bad.
[09:04:33] * Darke nodnodnods. It is rather amazing.
[09:06:16] * Darke was recently reading through old newsgroup posts, some way back to 1994, about it. So much for it coming out by december 1995. *Grin*
[09:06:48] <Jammet> Yeah.
[09:07:29] <Jammet> Read the "Bob White" version of the storyline then, as well, no?
[09:09:02] <Jammet> I'm very impressed with it, and disappointed at EA for pushing Origin that much. Having seen the remake of Ultima 1 is looking so fine, I would hope that someday, there is a remake of Ultima 9. With Bob's storyline. So to play the game as it was intended. I have U9 here. But I have stopped playing it after I noticed how much different it is.
[09:09:51] * Darke hasn't read Bob White's version.
[09:10:55] <Darke> I stopped playing it mainly because it was running horribly on my machine last time I tried it. But that was probably an odd combination of video drivers and win2k. *Grin*
[09:14:50] <Jammet> =) Well, please read Bob's version at least after you have played it. It is how I think, U9 should really be. (And I guess I'm not alone with that).
[09:15:51] <Jammet> Oh. I just found a remake project for U9 with his storyline.
[09:20:40] * Darke hunts down the plot and will read it when he gets the chance. In the middle of coding something atm.
[09:20:52] <Jammet> http://www.rpgplanet.com/ultima9/extra_stuff/original_plot.shtml <- The original plot (Don't read now if you want, spoilers, etc)
[09:21:01] <Jammet> =^_^= Mew okie.
[09:21:16] * Jammet playpounces Darke happily and wrastles before thre can be any codiing done.
[09:30:48] <blair> u9? :)
[09:31:53] <blair> it is inconvenient game... :)
[09:32:51] <blair> If there did not exist bug, would become really good game.
[09:33:34] * Darke nods. Agreed. *Grin*
[09:34:04] <blair> hi Darke.. :)
[09:34:05] * Darke wriggles out of Jammet pouncing reach and beings to read the U9 plot document. *grin*
[09:34:58] <blair> do you see ending scene of Mech Commander 2? :)
[09:35:19] * Jammet mews confused and then lets him read, all distracted with the scrap of paper, curiously pawing it then and on, and curls the tail around himself and starts to groom his fur. We leopard cubs want story, =^_^=. Want Bobs story. No care about bugs. Bugs can be fixed. Story can't.
[09:35:43] <Jammet> blair, nope =^_^= sorry.
[09:36:01] <Darke> blair: Yep. Quite a while ago, I haven't played it recently. *grin*
[09:36:09] <Darke> Jammet: *nodnodnod* Agreed. *grin*
[09:36:31] <blair> Jammet you're right.. :) bugs can be fixed.
[09:39:00] <blair> i begun to play No one lives forever 2 :)
[09:39:27] <blair> kate is clever and attractive... :)
[09:40:54] * Darke has never played it. Been meaning to though.
[09:41:23] * Jammet grooms his backpaws, waiting.
[09:42:05] <blair> you can play it. :) I bet that NOLF2 can grab prize of best game in 2002. :)
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[09:46:36] <Darke> Hi!
[09:47:01] * Jammet looks up and mews in greeting, fluffing.
[09:48:47] <slacked> :)
[09:52:32] * Darke oooohs. The original U9 plot is much neater.
[09:52:58] * Jammet noddlenoddles =^_^=
[09:54:06] <dancer_> Evening all.
[09:55:00] * dancer_ checks the code out with G++3.2, and looks into how well it might work with MMX and SSE optimisations.
[09:55:19] <Darke> Have fun. *grin*
[09:56:12] <slacked> nice to know someones looking at optimising exult
[09:56:23] <slacked> some parts of the game sure need it
[09:57:57] <Jammet> SAI2 and stuff like that? =)
[09:58:07] <dancer_> I'm the code-nazi of the team. Actually, I'm just looking at how much better the new compiler can make it, and making sure we're up to snuff for standards compliance for starters. I've been away for a while.
[09:58:14] * Jammet climbs halfway up on a table, hops on a chair and curls up.
[09:58:41] <Jammet> dancer_, just as long as I _can_ still compile with gcc 3, that'll be neat =^_^=.
[09:59:16] <dancer_> Jammet: If it doesn't compile with g++3.x I'll fix it so that it does. :)
[09:59:19] * Jammet is getting illegal operand constraint nightmares.
[09:59:30] <Jammet> dancer_: =) YAY!
[09:59:42] <dancer_> Jammet: Which version 3.x are you using?
[09:59:48] <dancer_> And what platform?
[10:00:32] <Jammet> dancer_: I meant with other programs. As of now I can compile exult 1.0 just fine. I couldn't compile 1.1 though. Had to change a little bit, but then it wouldn't startup. Let me check what it was...
[10:01:27] <Jammet> But I think they changed it already.
[10:01:30] <dancer_> Jeff gets a little sloppy in his standards compliance, since he's using 2.95. Mostly affects the studio code. I tend to fix it when I see it, but like I said, I've been away for a bit.
[10:02:01] <Jammet> ucinternal.cc:2013: call of overloaded `abs(long int)' is ambiguous
[10:02:04] <Jammet> std::abs(long long int)
[10:02:19] <Jammet> Well, basically it just won't take std:abs here.
[10:02:32] <Jammet> That's all so far.
[10:03:02] * dancer_ squints. Interesting.
[10:03:46] <Jammet> It swallowed 'abs' but refused to start.
[10:04:00] <Jammet> Internal SDL_mixer timidity synthesiser ... and then Aborted. (SIGABRT)
[10:04:27] <dancer_> My compile's just getting down to there. I'll see what happens.
[10:04:36] <slacked> :)
[10:04:38] <slacked> hehe
[10:04:39] * Jammet mews.
[10:04:51] <slacked> I like the ogg format better
[10:05:12] <Jammet> But I like the png format better. You suck.
[10:05:13] <Jammet> =^_^=
[10:05:33] * Jammet giggles playfully. =) Just fun.
[10:06:29] <slacked> png?
[10:06:33] <slacked> thats a picture format
[10:06:38] <slacked> hehe
[10:06:40] <Jammet> I know. It was a joke, slacked =).
[10:06:49] <slacked> :)
[10:07:15] <dancer_> I'm probably the only person on the planet who has used 3d video cards to mix audio. It was an experiment :)
[10:07:16] <Jammet> =^_^= I always look at images in xmms, and I always hear my sound in xv.
[10:09:20] <slacked> hahha
[10:12:53] <dancer_> Hmmm.
[10:25:55] <dancer_> Okay. Once more - this time with MMX and 3DNOW
[10:33:08] <slacked> dancer
[10:33:11] <slacked> can you get opengl working on exult?
[10:33:55] <dancer_> In what capacity? I've done a fair bit of open-gl code in the last few months.
[10:34:37] * dancer_ sketched out a game design prelim for a game-developer, but alas, without them getting any funding it never went anywhere.
[10:35:54] <blair> who know about the south korea?
[10:43:22] <slacked> umm not much
[10:43:36] <slacked> but I'd definately like to visit north korea
[10:46:04] <dancer_> What I know about south korea is a little dated. It all gets a little hazy after about 1970.
[10:47:22] <slacked> yeh
[10:47:29] <slacked> damn capilists yank
[10:47:33] <slacked> s
[10:47:38] <slacked> hehe
[10:48:37] <dancer_> slacked: Anyway, what were you saying about opengl?
[10:50:01] <slacked> hehe
[10:50:07] <slacked> long eriee silence there
[10:50:21] <slacked> I sensed you didn't like me having a go at patriotism
[10:51:06] <dancer_> Me? I thought you were talking to someone else. I'm not an american.
[10:51:51] <slacked> yah enough american bashing
[10:51:56] <slacked> Im done with that
[10:51:58] <slacked> anyway
[10:52:01] <slacked> opengl
[10:52:30] <slacked> I know it's experimental, but when I go to use it, it says in the terminal (I use linux) that OpenGL is not supported.
[10:53:13] <dancer_> Ah, I see. I completely missed even seeing it in there. I should take a look at that.
[10:53:30] <slacked> Do you use linux?
[10:53:35] <slacked> or any varient of unix?
[10:59:56] * dancer_ is running linux.
[11:00:20] * dancer_ commits the MMX and 3DNOW changes, and takes a look at opengl.
[11:01:11] <dancer_> slacked: Is this when you start it up, or when you build it?
[11:03:40] <Kirben> Main problem with opengl seems to be exult menus at start, they are off color and flashing for me.
[11:03:59] <dancer_> Kirben: Not a good sign.
[11:04:05] <slacked> nah
[11:04:08] <slacked> the build works
[11:04:25] <Kirben> main game seems to work ok in opengl though.
[11:04:27] <dancer_> I've got a working geforce2 here. I'm just rebuilding with opengl enabled. I'll take a look.
[11:04:42] <Kirben> geforce 2 mx here.
[11:04:49] <slacked> when I compile I don't change any settings, I just do the default
[11:05:11] <dancer_> kirben: The same. Got a geforceMX/100 (or 200..I'm not sure which)
[11:05:39] <dancer_> It works well under linux, in either case.
[11:05:51] <slacked> I have a geforce2 GTS
[11:06:01] <slacked> when I compile do I need to specify anything?
[11:08:27] <dancer_> Just ./configure --enable-opengl should be enough. Do you have any other opengl code you can use to verify that your setup is working?
[11:09:19] <dancer_> eg: /usr/lib/xscreensaver/glplanet -fps
[11:09:48] <slacked> umm
[11:09:54] <slacked> ill check
[11:10:00] <slacked> wait a minute
[11:10:05] <slacked> I know that answer already
[11:10:10] <slacked> yes opengl works
[11:10:16] <slacked> I've played numerous opengl games
[11:10:20] <slacked> anyway time to compile
[11:10:35] <dancer_> Okay. Well, I'll finish compiling this and see what happens here.
[11:29:31] <dancer_> Well, it's looking okay here. I _assume_ it's operating under opengl. That's how I compiled it.
[11:30:01] <Kirben> need to enable it
[11:30:07] <Kirben> in config file or options
[11:30:20] <Kirben> use opengl filter
[11:33:19] <dancer_> Ah, hold on. Got to get palettes.flx into the right path.
[11:33:45] <Kirben> yes, uses mucked up path too.
[11:33:56] <slacked> ill compile now
[11:34:33] <slacked> k
[11:34:40] <slacked> sh autogen.sh
[11:34:45] <slacked> ./configure --enable-opengl
[11:34:45] <slacked> make
[11:34:45] <slacked> make install
[11:34:48] <slacked> correct?
[11:35:53] <dancer_> Ooo. Nasty.
[11:36:18] <slacked> :/
[11:36:22] <slacked> whats nasty
[11:36:26] <slacked> thats how I do it
[11:36:34] <slacked> Exult has worked before doing this method
[11:37:43] <slacked> eexplain!
[11:38:03] <slacked> hey dancer you from australia?
[11:38:09] <slacked> me too :)
[11:38:17] <dancer_> Interesting....
[11:38:21] <slacked> victoria I'm guessing.
[11:38:25] <dancer_> slacked: Yes, I am. Melbourne.
[11:38:30] <blair> i'm from south-korea. :|
[11:39:06] <dancer_> It'll run, so long as I don't select opengl. If I _do_ select opengl, it aborts complaining that it can't open static/palettes.flx.
[11:39:19] <dancer_> Which - of course - should be loaded from another path.
[11:39:45] <slacked> dancer
[11:39:56] <slacked> you told me I should put --enable-opengl on
[11:40:00] <slacked> I don't usually do it
[11:40:36] <Kirben> I just copied whole ultima 7 directory over to stop that error.
[11:40:49] <dancer_> slacked: Well, if you're going to _try_ to run it in opengl at all, it needs to be enabled at compile time as well.
[11:41:01] <Kirben> but your right, it should not happen
[11:41:04] <dancer_> kirben: Seems like an error in one of the code-paths to me.
[11:41:15] <slacked> yah
[11:41:35] <slacked> open your config file at $HOME$/.exult.cfg
[11:41:58] <slacked> set the path right
[11:42:52] <dancer_> slacked: Actually, I already have the right path. The game works just fine in all the other modes. I smell a GL_manager initialisation bug.
[11:44:08] <blair> Can you buy game freely in austrailia?
[11:44:26] <blair> south-korea can't buy game freely.. :(
[11:44:41] <blair> i can't buy game freely in south-korea.
[11:44:49] <dancer_> blair: Games generally? Mostly. One or two are banned, I think.
[11:45:15] <blair> only EA & Vivendi Universal worked in south-korea
[11:45:28] <dancer_> Oho....Here's the problem. Looks like GLmanager is trying to load a palette before the config paths are properly set.
[11:46:02] <dancer_> blair: We're usually a couple months behind the USA for releases.
[11:46:12] <blair> korean gamer can't play most of PC game package... :(
[11:46:31] <blair> korean game developer only made MMORPG... :)
[11:46:41] <blair> it's damn system... :(
[11:47:08] <slacked> blair: you like Ragnarok?
[11:47:13] <dancer_> blair: It's not a good situation. I agree.
[11:47:22] <slacked> that was a good game.
[11:47:26] <blair> no... i dislike that..
[11:47:33] <blair> ragnarok is good game... but
[11:47:34] <slacked> dancer, are you an exult developer?
[11:47:35] <dancer_> Hrm. Maybe that's not quite it. A good theory though. Will have to dig deeper.
[11:47:51] <dancer_> slacked: Afraid so. I was the second one.
[11:48:08] <blair> ragnarok is not more to imitate only... :(
[11:48:18] <slacked> second one!
[11:48:27] <slacked> yikes, you've been around a fair bit on exult
[11:48:28] <blair> I love pc package game... but i can't buy.. :(
[11:48:39] <slacked> blair, can you order?
[11:49:16] <blair> yes.
[11:49:22] <blair> but.. it's too expensive... :(
[11:49:30] <slacked> n exception occured:
[11:49:32] <slacked> Error opening file static/palettes.flx
[11:49:32] <slacked> errno: 2
[11:49:32] <slacked> Error Description: No such file or directory
[11:49:35] <slacked> ah huh...
[11:49:40] <dancer_> Bingo.
[11:49:41] <slacked> same error dancer
[11:49:46] <dancer_> That's what I'm hunting now.
[11:49:57] <slacked> at least we have consistancy
[11:50:14] <slacked> blair, do you play exult?
[11:50:24] <blair> yes... :)
[11:50:34] <blair> exult is very cool program.. :)
[11:50:48] <blair> some of korean gamers love that :)
[11:50:52] <slacked> at least you have one game won't let you down :P
[11:51:08] <blair> they said... "how can they made this program?! :0"
[11:51:22] <blair> me too... :)
[11:51:27] <slacked> They should post more on the forum, we hardly ever here from them.
[11:51:56] <slacked> blair, they 'reversed engineered' Ultima7.
[11:51:58] <dancer_> blair: Well, we got most of the basics done in a couple months. Getting it _right_ took a lot longer. Jeff and I had 40-80+ hour per week jobs.
[11:52:06] <slacked> Plus, the developers are smart
[11:52:09] <blair> oh... great... :)
[11:52:34] <blair> i wish that korean developer must see exult... :(
[11:53:03] <blair> only starcraft or warcraft, some of junk MMORPG can sell in south korea... :(
[11:53:13] <dancer_> blair: We were lucky. The game had been designed and built as a data-driven game. All we had to do was figure out how it worked, and make an engine to run it.
[11:53:35] <slacked> I love MMORPG's. However some like Ragnarok can be annoying.
[11:53:43] <blair> yes... :|
[11:53:56] <blair> i want to buy game freely... :|
[11:54:00] <blair> but i can't. :(
[11:54:09] <slacked> I do know about the korean addiction to starcraft :P
[11:54:31] <slacked> why can't you buy them? are certain games banned?
[11:54:40] <blair> not banned..
[11:54:42] <blair> but....
[11:54:51] <slacked> just not available?
[11:55:03] <blair> anyone do not work for publisher. :(
[11:55:53] <slacked> what about NWN?
[11:56:01] <slacked> Don't you like that?
[11:56:12] <blair> ah... infogrames korea published NWN.
[11:56:26] <blair> but it's not sell easily... :|
[11:56:40] <slacked> how is that?
[11:56:41] <blair> WARES & korean gamers do not like NWN...
[11:56:49] <slacked> hahaha
[11:56:51] <slacked> :)
[11:57:02] <slacked> I like NWN
[11:57:04] <blair> most of korean gamers love MMORPG.. for example... Linege or Ragnarok.. :|
[11:57:16] <dancer_> Certainly language support for games is tricky. Multibyte encodings are a nuisance to code if you started supporting only single-byte-encoded languages.
[11:57:32] <slacked> what do you think of thailand players on ragnarok?
[11:57:34] <blair> Some of Korean Gamers (most 25~30 years old) like NWN... :|
[11:58:04] <blair> There is no a person who is going to sell game... :|
[11:58:13] <slacked> thailand players on Ragnarok = annoying!
[11:58:37] <slacked> Sounds like you have an issue in korea, you lack games with any real depth and meaning.
[11:58:41] <blair> it is really sad real... :|
[11:59:13] <dancer_> 46% of gamers in the USA and Australia are over 25 years old. We still don't get the sort of games we'd _like_ to play, generally.
[11:59:37] <blair> for example... I can't buy Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast.
[11:59:43] <slacked> dancer, what distro of linux do you use?
[11:59:55] <slacked> blair, my brother has that game
[12:00:25] <dancer_> Awww, man...Who wrote this stupid pile of.....Oh. That's right. I wrote that.
[12:00:33] <dancer_> slacked: Debian.
[12:00:36] <slacked> hahaha
[12:00:46] <slacked> Debian!
[12:00:50] <blair> there was no the campany witch sell...
[12:00:55] * dancer_ should have done it a whole lot better than that.
[12:00:56] * slacked looks the other way
[12:01:03] <blair> so i order that in EBgames.. :|
[12:01:19] <slacked> Debian is an inferior product
[12:01:22] <slacked> :P
[12:01:32] * slacked starts a distro argument
[12:01:44] <slacked> nah, all a matter of preference I suppose
[12:02:03] <blair> I spend 75 dollar (US Dollar)... :|
[12:02:13] <blair> it's too expensive to me... :(
[12:02:19] <slacked> I use slackware because I'm slack to myself and want to do stuff the old difficult way.
[12:02:33] <dancer_> Mostly. Debian's harder to install, and easier to maintain. Redhat's harder to maintain, easier to install. Suse is easy both ways, but has some very mangled init.d scripting.
[12:02:40] <slacked> blair, can't you get second hand games?
[12:03:10] <slacked> dancer you know much about slackware?
[12:03:15] * dancer_ can say bad things about any linux distro, given a few moments to think about it.
[12:03:30] <dancer_> slacked: I didn't even know slackware was still out there, to be honest.
[12:03:38] <slacked> hehe
[12:03:41] <slacked> its a bit like that
[12:03:43] <dancer_> Thought they'd stopped five or six years ago.
[12:03:44] * Darke agrees with dancer and adds that gentoo takes a long time to install, and a long time to install each program, but is surprisngly easy to get working and keep working.
[12:03:52] <blair> what's mean? "second hand games"
[12:04:02] <slacked> but they are nearly up to version 9.0,
[12:04:16] <dancer_> Oh, man, did I write some crap code there.
[12:04:27] <slacked> blair I mean games that have already been used and sold again.
[12:05:09] <blair> oh... i understand... :)
[12:05:20] <blair> but we can't buy it.... :|
[12:05:32] <blair> second game is very expensive... :|
[12:05:55] <slacked> slackware is still alive but isn't high profile because 'Pat' (founder) prefers stability amongst all things, even if it means using old versions of programs.
[12:06:05] <slacked> and thats kinda slack
[12:06:15] <slacked> cause gnome 2 is better than gnome 1.4
[12:06:18] <slacked> !!
[12:06:21] <slacked> anyway...
[12:06:58] * dancer_ just upgraded to gnome2 from 1.4 the day before yesterday. Was pleasantly surprised.
[12:07:09] * dancer_ strips in some debug code. Let's see what's happening here...
[12:07:13] <slacked> yeh it's sweet isnt it
[12:07:20] * Jammet mews softly into the discussion, and sleeps a little.
[12:07:23] <-- blair has left IRC ("울보천사의 한글 mIRC 5.91T - http://mirckorea.woorizip.com")
[12:07:27] <slacked> Im using an unoffical update to gnome 2
[12:08:23] <slacked> Darke: what's nice about Gentoo?
[12:08:58] * slacked attemps to make his computer crash
[12:09:06] * slacked fails miserably
[12:11:30] <Darke> slacked: Primarially the fact everything's source compiled. *grin* But to me it seems to be the easiest linux distro to administer (and it doesn't have an 'graphical' admin tools either), but it's the fourth distro I've used, so it could be the wisdom of the years speaking. *grin*
[12:11:31] * dancer_ adds more debug code. The interesting thing is that <STATIC> maps to the right path when you aren't in opengl, and the wrong one otherwise.
[12:12:02] <slacked> nice
[12:12:12] <slacked> so it compiles everything in the installation?
[12:13:25] <slacked> I try to compile everything from source, not onlt can I make sure it's optmised for my system, it gives me much more control.
[12:14:50] <Darke> slacked: Yup. The default is an 18Meg bootstrap CD to install from. tar.gz/tar.bz2/whatever files are downloaded from the net and compiled/installed. The package system is centered around 'ebuild's (effectively advanced shell scripts) that describe how each program needs to be downloaded/extracted/compiled/installed.
[12:15:53] <slacked> interesting...
[12:16:23] * dancer_ traces completely the wrong thing. Fixes that. Recompiles. Makes coffee.
[12:16:36] <Darke> slacked: What's really neat, that because you're building the system the first time in a chrooted environment, if you want to reinstall your system you can reinstall on a new drive/partition 'within' the current running system. So other then a bit of a high cpu utilisation rate for a couple of days, you can swap in a new system within 30 minutes or so. *grin*
[12:16:55] <Darke> dancer_: *snicker* Having fun?
[12:17:43] <dancer_> Here's a direct example of the problem. Without opengl mode enabled:
[12:17:48] <dancer_> Trying to access: <STATIC>/intropal.dat
[12:17:48] <slacked> hrmm
[12:17:50] <dancer_> Translated to: /home/dancer/archives/work2/Work/ultima/u7/static/intropal.dat
[12:17:51] <slacked> thats outstanding
[12:18:00] <dancer_> And with...
[12:18:03] <dancer_> Trying to access: <STATIC>/palettes.flx
[12:18:05] <dancer_> Translated to: static/palettes.flx
[12:18:35] <dancer_> <STATIC> is obviously not getting substituted properly in this one case.
[12:19:29] <dancer_> ...and here we are.
[12:21:53] * dancer_ cheats. Let's try doing this the nasty way.
[12:22:05] <dancer_> If it works, we'll find something nicer.
[12:23:59] <dancer_> Crud.
[12:26:39] * dancer_ tries another hack. At least I'm getting a better picture of what's going on, even if I'm just hacking at it.
[12:30:57] * Jammet stretches out and looks curiously at what dancer is doing. Sniff.
[12:31:11] * dancer_ undoes the stuff, and adds a crappy symlink instead.
[12:32:21] <dancer_> Darke: I am, actually.
[12:33:26] <dancer_> Ouch. Looks nasty when I get it working.
[12:33:52] <dancer_> Going to have to talk to someone about this before I hack too hard. I have a suspicion about why it might be the way it is.
[12:39:40] <-- slacked has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[12:39:50] <dancer_> Time for some gaming before bed.
[12:39:54] <-- dancer_ has left IRC ("leaving")
[12:39:54] <Darke> dancer_: (having fun) Cool. *grin*
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[12:53:49] <Darke> Hi.
[12:53:54] <Colourless> hi
[12:54:20] <Jammet> Mew Colourless =)
[12:54:41] * Jammet hops to all fours and stands next to Darke. =^_^= I've finished playing UW. Yay!
[12:55:29] * Jammet wanders around in the Underworlds just for fun now, from the latest savegame, and seeks to find every last secret.
[12:56:18] * Darke yays! Have fun! *grin*
[12:57:21] * Jammet gives Darke a bigly looking sword with lots of gadgety diamonds attached =^_^=. I got three of those.
[12:59:22] * Darke ooooohs and hops around it wondering what exactly he'd use a bigly looking sword with attached gadgety diamonds ("...and if you call now, we'll through in a few set if ginsu knives!") for.
[12:59:53] <Jammet> =^_^= Not one, not two, not three, not ten...
[13:00:18] * Jammet purrs very happily, =) thanks for playing with me.
[13:00:59] <Darke> Maybe it could be used to slice up a _really_ overdone roast meal? *grin*
[13:01:19] <Jammet> Oh yes, Gazelle, or Zebra today. Yum. =)
[13:01:20] * Darke hubmlefluffs. No problem, it's fun. *grin*
[13:01:55] * Jammet mewls tiny, "This studio thingy isn't working. I can't make the patch still. Mewl."
[13:02:14] <Jammet> Well maybe when 1.1 compiles sometime. =)
[13:03:02] * Darke snickers and sill doesn't know why it just doesn't seem to work. 'tis a bit wierd.
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[13:13:02] * Jammet mews and will try to be more specific later if that helps =).
[13:16:03] * Darke poofs into the aether. Back in a couple of minutes.
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[13:25:46] * Darke streeetches and checks his memory usage. Having X take up 512Meg of physical ram is was a little... dubious. *grin*
[13:26:17] <Colourless> *only* 512 mb?
[13:27:56] * Darke notices his machine sitting on a nice 10% usage of it's memory at 90Meg. *grin* Yes, 'only' 512mb. It's what occasionally happens when you run wine, for reasons unknown to this mere rabbit.
[13:28:19] <Colourless> ah, it should be obvious then
[13:28:31] <Colourless> wine is just acting like windows a little too well
[13:28:46] * Darke nodnods. His thoughts exactly. *grin*
[13:48:05] * Darke blinkblinks. Any idea what this error means?
[13:48:08] <Darke> g++ -g -o tools/disasm/disasm misc/Args.o filesys/FileSystem.o misc/Console.o misc/Q_strcasecmp.o tools/disasm/Disasm.o -L/usr/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread
[13:48:10] <Darke> tools/disasm/Disasm.o: In function `ConvertUsecode::readOpGeneric(IFileDataSource*, unsigned&, std::vector<DebugSymbol, std::allocator<DebugSymbol> >&, bool&, bool)':
[13:48:10] <Darke> /home/darke/code/pentagram/tools/fold/CallNode.h:41: undefined reference to `vtable for CallNode'
[13:48:10] <Darke> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[13:48:10] <Darke> m
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[13:48:32] <Colourless> i've seen a similar error once before
[13:48:34] * Darke suspects it's something quite silly and simple, but can't quite 'get' it. *grin*
[13:48:35] <Darke> Hi!
[13:48:36] <Colourless> hi
[13:48:54] <Darke> I have too, strangely enough, but I can't for the life of me remember what I did to fix it.
[13:49:09] <Colourless> interface and implementation things were causing the problems
[13:49:24] <Darke> The CallNode class is almost identical to another class that compiles fine.
[13:49:47] * Darke looks between them. Probably quick enough to do a copy&paste and redo the changes to see if that helps.
[13:49:53] <Fingolfin> hi
[13:50:48] <Colourless> templates can screw up a bit sometimes, but i dont think you are using a template there
[13:51:49] <Darke> Nope. Just a cascade of CallNode : BinNode, then BinNode : Node. Nothing complex at all. *grin*
[13:53:01] <Colourless> hmm, i think i got a similar problem when doing the console stuff. Can not for the life of me remember exactly what the problem was, nor can I actually tell you how it was fixed, becuase i just don't know
[13:56:59] * Darke ahhs! Got it.
[13:57:11] <Fingolfin> you got compile error with C++ templates or what?
[13:57:13] <Colourless> the problem was?
[13:57:47] <Darke> BinNode had a function that was specified to be pure virtual. CallNode had a declaration of the function that was neither virtual, nor pure virtual, but lacked the definition.
[13:59:04] <Colourless> bad you :-)
[13:59:14] <Colourless> not useful error message hey :-)
[13:59:55] <Darke> IIRC, the compiler is, technically, completely correct in doing what it did, but a better error message from the linker would have been nice. *grin*
[14:01:00] * Darke does remember reading about this 'problem' once, it just slipped his mind. *grin*
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[17:51:52] * Darke yawns. Sleep sequence initiated... Night all!
[17:52:09] <Colourless> cya
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[19:34:08] <artaxerxes> yo!
[19:34:29] <artaxerxes> what's that sign beside Jammet? (+a here)
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[21:08:29] <SB-X> artaxerxes!
[21:11:45] * SB-X grumbles.
[21:22:45] <Fingolfin> what is the problem, SB-X? :-)
[21:22:56] <SB-X> hi
[21:23:12] <SB-X> artaxerxes has been coming into the channel and then idling unavailable :\
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