#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 12 May 2002 (GMT)

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[00:43:46] <-- armav has left IRC ()
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[05:39:56] * Darke blinkies. sbx: The New Generation?
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[05:40:31] <sbx> Hi. zahn.openprojects.net said I couldn't change my nick for 20 seconds :)
[05:41:21] <sbx> i had been changing it around too fast i guess
[05:41:35] * Darke snickers.
[05:41:37] <sbx> sbx: The Next Generation
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[05:44:19] * Darke eeks.
[05:45:09] * sbx|episode_ii makes an attacking noise and throws a Jango Fett action figure at Darke.
[05:46:11] * sbx|episode_ii gives bags of Nacho Cheesier Doritos with Anakin Skywalker on the bag to everyone in the channel.
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[11:20:12] <Colourless> hmm, no wjp or darke
[11:23:14] <Colourless> if either of you two read this, i have completely misunderstood what opcodes 4C and 4D do
[11:23:51] <Colourless> now that I know what they are meant to actually do, things make a hell of alot more sense
[11:24:40] <Colourless> they do not reference a pointer in a variable
[11:25:34] <Colourless> they pop a 32 bit pointer off the stack, and then push/pop the number of bytes specified by the value passed with the opcode
[11:26:21] <Colourless> this changes what some of the other opcode seem to do. more when you are here
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[12:28:22] <wjp> hi
[12:28:26] <Colourless> hi
[12:29:51] <Colourless> you should read the logs
[12:30:42] <wjp> the 4C/4D thing?
[12:30:53] <Colourless> yeah
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[13:15:12] <wjp> hi
[13:15:18] <Fingolfin> yo
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[13:16:12] <Colourless> hi
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[14:29:35] <Colourless> committed my changes
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[16:14:00] <Colourless> wb
[16:14:22] <Fingolfin> thx, rehi :-)
[16:14:39] <Colourless> :-)
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[20:55:38] * Darke bows. Hi.
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[20:58:11] <wjp> hi
[21:02:45] * Darke reads logs, and acquires new cvs.
[21:12:18] * wjp browses through his exult directory
[21:12:23] <wjp> lots of modified files...
[21:14:06] <Darke> I suspect for a month after v1.0, exult straight from cvs is going to be rather unplayable due to bugs. *grin*
[21:14:55] <Darke> We've got what, two? three? people going to do major cvs commits, and a couple of less major changes to happen then. *grin*
[21:16:27] <wjp> mine are quite stable, actually
[21:16:36] <wjp> I've had them for months without noticing any problems
[21:20:03] <Darke> *nod* I'm more worried that the 'major' changes in one area will subtly change the Way Things Work, which will cause weird problems with another major change as a flow on. *grin* In _theory_ this shouldn't happen, but I've seen and heard of this sort of thing happening before in friends projects, fun it is not. *grin*
[21:20:32] <wjp> :-)
[21:21:16] <wjp> the new usecode interpreter _should_ behave exactly the same way as the old one... but you never know :-)
[21:23:12] <Darke> Then you have the 'rippling instability' as both 'teams' try to compensate for the other teams 'bugs', so you have this random wave effect where the nicely tested 'compensation' functions that worked perfectly on cvs version-1, are suddenly commited after team2 commits their changes and the cvs is 'stable', then it causes more problems, and so on. *grin* Incredibly amusing to hear about, but not something I would want to be in.
[21:23:30] <wjp> lol
[21:25:34] * Darke notes, for reference, this particular project was in Java, and was a client, server, common type three way split, so things were... interesting. *grin*
[21:25:50] <wjp> uhoh... usecode debugger has that too :-)
[21:26:19] <wjp> client = new (uncommitted) usecode debugger, server = exult, common = parts of server/ and usecode/ subdirs :-)
[21:26:47] <Darke> Yeah, but at least you're only one 'team' working on it, and can actually touch the 'server' code. *grin*
[21:27:23] <wjp> hehe :-)
[21:29:27] <Darke> IIRC one thing they mentioned was they were juggling the 'message passing' (text string based) syntax, one team had dropped an extra ';' into the syntax in a dubious but logical area, so the other team compensated by making it necessary to be there, but by then the first team had realsed their 'error' or something, and had removed it. So you look at the cvs trace and it would appear that the last commit (the first team) 'broke' cvs, when it w
[21:29:28] <Darke> n fact the second team that 'broke' cvs, and so on, and so forth. *grin*
[21:30:05] <wjp> hehe :-)
[21:30:16] <wjp> sounds painful :-)
[21:31:29] * Darke notes that if he ever gets into a project there there are 15-20 people working on it in multiple teams, he's going to make _sure_ he can touch others code provided he documents that he touched it, just to get around such stupidities. *grin*
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[21:36:56] <royalsexy> any of the exult team awake?
[21:37:20] <wjp> several, actually :-)
[21:37:27] <royalsexy> great
[21:37:51] <royalsexy> all the windows exult binaries just got picked up by my virus scanner as Win32.Elitec
[21:37:58] <royalsexy> can't find any info on the "virus" though
[21:38:03] <royalsexy> still searching
[21:38:36] <royalsexy> just thought i ought to let you know that RAV (http://www.ravantivirus.com) is detecting exult as a virus :)
[21:38:59] <wjp> any idea since when?
[21:39:59] <royalsexy> nope i just reinstalled the win .exe's
[21:40:19] <royalsexy> for exult i mean
[21:40:25] <royalsexy> i was exultless for a while there
[21:41:26] * royalsexy hopes that whoever compiled the binaries wasn't infested with a real v|rus
[21:41:53] * Darke thinks that it might just be that it's detecting a series of bytes in exult to be 'virus like'. But suspects Kirben should double check is computer for viruses Just In Case. *grin*
[21:41:57] <royalsexy> pc-cillan didn't detect anything
[21:42:01] * royalsexy nods
[21:42:40] <royalsexy> the cleaner didn't detect anything
[21:42:52] <royalsexy> i suspected it was a false positive
[21:44:55] <royalsexy> anyways i'm off - you guys have fun ;)
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[22:12:50] <wjp> hi
[22:13:29] <wjp> Kirben: royalsexy mentioned one (out of two) of his viruscheckers reported a virus in the exult snapshots
[22:13:43] <wjp> Kirben: probably false alarm, but you may want to double-check
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[22:57:37] <Dominus> hey ho
[22:57:46] <Darke> Hello.
[22:57:50] <Dominus> I'm a little late for Europe, I guess
[22:58:08] <Dominus> but just in time for the Australians :-)
[22:58:15] <wjp> hi
[22:59:11] <Dominus> Darke: If I ever figure out how to do a nice plaque with "Nice work Colourless!" on it I'll sure integrate it :-)
[23:00:34] * Darke grins. Thanks.
[23:00:55] * Darke suspects you'd have to modify the book/plaque section, which would be a little non-trivial. *grin*
[23:01:52] <Dominus> yeah, from the talk between wjp and whoever does the french translation (bad name memory) I thought it might be painfull to add books or plaques...
[23:03:01] <Dominus> doesn't anybody want to committ simon quinn's patch?
[23:03:19] <wjp> I would, but sound isn't my area
[23:04:07] <Dominus> I'll bug Jeff about it, as he is the only one who did some work on the "environmental sfx"
[23:05:59] <Dominus> btw, that mail to the ML in which Pertex complains in German that no one answered him was supposed to be off-ML directly to me :-)
[23:06:24] <wjp> ah, ok :-)
[23:06:56] <Dominus> he's the one trying to make some sense out of ucc
[23:07:25] <wjp> ucc? the compiler?
[23:07:53] <Dominus> yeah, he'S strying to document the language
[23:08:04] <Dominus> he's trying...
[23:08:10] <wjp> hm, it's still changing, though
[23:08:19] <wjp> since ucc doesn't support all features of usecode yet
[23:08:26] <Dominus> I have the link in the exult_studio documentation in CVS somewhere
[23:09:16] * wjp reads
[23:09:37] <Dominus> but read the CVS version, I think the usecode section
[23:10:04] <wjp> I'm reading Pertex's docs, I mean
[23:10:16] <Dominus> ahhh
[23:11:01] <Dominus> he's asking for help and if he should continue to do it, btw..
[23:14:56] <wjp> hm
[23:15:28] <wjp> heh, he has a german description for UI_get_party_list
[23:15:41] <wjp> ...and some others :-)
[23:16:34] <Dominus> I'm not all too sure that he is very fluent in English, but I could be mistaken... :-)
[23:24:56] * wjp wonders about what to do about ucc docs
[23:25:08] <wjp> I wouldn't mind writing them myself sometime, I guess
[23:25:24] <wjp> would give me a chance to figure out exactly what needs to be added too
[23:25:52] <Dominus> well, if ES is supposed to be any good ucc needs to be documented
[23:26:09] <wjp> yeah
[23:27:10] <Dominus> Pertex's docs is a good start but not very helpfull for novices
[23:27:52] <wjp> what should the target of the docs be?
[23:28:23] <wjp> I would expect at least some programming experience, personally
[23:28:58] * wjp would prefer to write things for people already fluent in C, but that's probably too high up :-)
[23:29:10] <Darke> *nod* I think they'd need either someone with programming experienice to 'walk them through' or to have had some basic programming experience too.
[23:29:27] <Dominus> Well, you are actually right, otherwise it would be too extensive and need to cover stuff that is unneseccary for experienced people
[23:29:48] <Darke> Else you're effectivaly writing a 'learn to program' text. And that's non-trivial. *grin*
[23:29:50] * Dominus can't spell right now :-)
[23:30:09] <Dominus> Darke: that's what I wanted to express somehow...
[23:30:11] <wjp> how about just putting the .yy file up there? :-)
[23:30:18] <Darke> Dominus: Don't worry, you're still getting more words right then Colourless on a good day. *grin*
[23:30:45] <Darke> wjp: I think assuming they know C is a better idea then assuming they know flex. *grin*
[23:31:11] <wjp> .yy is for bison, actually :-)
[23:31:21] <Dominus> wjp: I'd expect something more like it is in Pertex docs:
[23:31:37] <Dominus> function, description of function and example
[23:32:23] <Dominus> as example I would guess having our ES-Demo patch needs to be modified to have all the functions to show
[23:32:29] <Darke> wjp: *grin* They'd need to know both anyway.
[23:33:11] <wjp> Dominus: yeah, we need to write some 'fancy' usecode :-)
[23:33:41] <wjp> Dominus: one thing that might be nice as a demo is having sb/pyro-x say things when he blows himself up
[23:34:13] <wjp> (and making the rest of us immortal would be nice too :-) )
[23:34:21] <Dominus> he he
[23:34:45] <Dominus> problem is: I'm getting to my limits of the usecode language pretty soon :-)
[23:35:02] <wjp> time to expand those limits then :-)
[23:35:07] <Dominus> damn
[23:35:25] <wjp> ?
[23:35:38] <Dominus> I'm going to take a look next thing I'm back in Vienna and start asking questions
[23:35:41] <Dominus> :-)
[23:35:58] * wjp looks at IP
[23:36:01] <wjp> aol.com?!
[23:36:04] <wjp> where are you now? :-)
[23:36:26] <Dominus> Brackenheim in Germany (in the area of Heilbronn)
[23:36:40] <Dominus> it's my mom's place
[23:36:42] <wjp> and Heilbronn is in the area of ..? :-)
[23:36:50] <Dominus> Stuttgart
[23:36:57] <wjp> sounds more familiar :-)
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[23:37:18] <Dominus> 30-40 km north of Stuttgart
[23:38:40] <Dominus> wjp: is it possible to add books or plaques to the usecode via the patch or is this just insane (AFAIK the content is handled by the quality of a book/plaque)
[23:39:08] <wjp> it's possible
[23:41:14] <Dominus> care to elaborate?
[23:41:22] <wjp> no :-)
[23:41:30] <Dominus> good
[23:41:44] <Dominus> it's too late anyway :-)
[23:41:55] <wjp> well, ok...
[23:42:08] <wjp> it's not possible with the current version of exult
[23:42:29] <wjp> but it's easy to add
[23:42:49] <Dominus> ah
[23:43:14] <wjp> I'm just not sure on how to do it yet
[23:43:25] <Dominus> well, maybe after 1.0 (add it to the list of things that will screw up Exult after 1.0)
[23:43:45] <wjp> it's a mess right now, and I wouldn't want to make it a bigger mess
[23:44:04] <wjp> it won't be something that's likely to screw things up
[23:51:12] <Dominus> well, we definitely need it at some time in the future when we want to add trivial books to the SF-Island like SoT and WoT and maybe some stuff out of the FAQ and Docs...
[23:51:31] <wjp> heh, good idea :-)
[23:51:54] <Dominus> Just imagine some other form of Ebooks, where people have to download a ptach for U7 to read the WHOLE latest book i nt he series... :-)
[23:52:07] <Dominus> in the series
[23:55:38] <Dominus> (though I wouldn't want to convert scanned pages of a whole book into usecode...)
[23:57:14] <Darke> Dominus: That could be automated. *grin*
[23:58:06] * Darke thinks scattering books with short FAQ sections in them around Britannia is a _very_ good idea. *grin*
[23:59:45] <Dominus> I wouldn't go that far, I still dream of a huge SF-Island where you find Dominus in a huge library full of books that have only the FAQ and/or Documentation in it and that NPC complaining that no one reads anymore
[23:59:50] <Dominus> in this age