#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 12 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[00:10:15] <servus> Hasn't Exult been 1.4 for, like, a long time? : o)
[00:10:16] <Dalian> hmm yeah..I mean more for modders :)
[00:11:00] <servus> I think that every time the Flex format is changed at least, the version number should change. *Pokes Marzo* - that would explain how come some versions of Exult 1.4 can run Exult3D, and some cannot : o)
[00:13:02] <Dalian> "event" doesn't seem well explained, for example
[00:13:42] <Dalian> not in anything I've read, anyway
[00:18:50] <Dalian> in the SI usecode, its value ranges from 0x0000 to 0x000E or so
[00:23:45] <SB-X> servus: yes, I keep reminding them to update the version number, 1.4 was never even promoted to stable
[00:27:10] <SB-X> Dalian: Here is a list of recognized events I just found in the sourcecode: http://exult.cvs.sourceforge.net/exult/exult/usecode/ucmachine.h?revision=1.62&view=markup
[00:27:43] <SB-X> Dalian: starting on line 61
[00:31:17] <Dalian> I'll take a look :) I was trying to find something last night, and ran across this. It looks like an SI coder's notes on what they'd need usecode for. Kind of interesting: http://home.insightbb.com/~chilliedog/Htm/Moonshade20.htm
[00:31:26] <Dalian> actually it starts at Moonshade19.htm
[00:31:58] <SB-X> Yep, that's pretty cool. There's a few posts about it on the forum. It's from the cut plot documents.
[00:32:22] <SB-X> Those were not used in the final version of SI because they were forced to rush the game to completion.
[00:33:04] <Dalian> ah
[00:33:11] <SB-X> Mosh is one of the victims of the plot being cut. The original design called for a sewer system under Moonshade that linked to the Furnace, and Mosh would be there running around with the rats.
[00:33:35] <SB-X> they=Origin
[00:33:47] <Dalian> understandable I guess..the game is already huge
[00:34:29] <SB-X> did you finish SI?
[00:34:54] <Dalian> yeah..i bought it when it first came out
[00:34:59] <Dalian> or do you mean recently?
[00:35:03] <SB-X> oh ok
[00:35:05] <SB-X> ever
[00:35:15] <SB-X> in case you didn't read this already, the biggest change is that the entire population wasnt supposed to be wiped out by the banes being released
[00:35:17] <Dalian> i just got to Furnace in my current game actualy
[00:35:27] <SB-X> just wanted to check before spoiling the game for you :)
[00:35:29] <Dalian> yep I read about that on the wiki
[00:35:35] <SB-X> cool
[00:35:36] <SB-X> ok
[00:35:57] <Dalian> it's been a long time..but it's amazing how much stuff I remembered
[00:35:58] <SB-X> i'd (and I think most people) have preferred the original plot
[00:36:05] <SB-X> ...with the banes taking over the cities
[00:36:19] <Dalian> would have been interesting
[00:37:21] <SB-X> There has been discussion about recreating the original plot of SI in Exult but nobody has done anything about it. We don't have enough source material so there would be arguing over what actually to change. We'd need more artwork too.
[00:37:33] <Dalian> heh
[00:38:22] <Dalian> ahh yes..this is what I was looking for..the events enumeration. I thank thee! :)
[00:38:49] <Dalian> now the ==0 and !=1 make sense
[00:39:09] <SB-X> You're welcome.
[00:39:43] <SB-X> I'm not sure but I guess you can use the "die" event to make the Black Knight come back to life and taunt you a second time. (if you recreate that scene)
[00:41:09] <Dalian> heh I can see that. The weapon, readied, unreadied ones are a bit more ambiguous to me
[00:41:44] <Dalian> you can probably use 'chat' to have them say 'I would have words with thee' or something
[00:41:50] <SB-X> best to see how they're used in existing functions
[00:42:23] <SB-X> well, you read events to find out what's happening, I dont know how to cause them
[00:43:17] <SB-X> there are probably intrinsics for causing certain events to be called on an object, which would call its shape function
[00:45:26] <Dalian> I was looking at the SI usecode, dumped from ucxt, but it's not entirely decipherable. I used the output for the scripting language too
[00:45:58] <Dalian> I see lots of references to Func#### but can't determine what they do from that
[00:46:18] <Dalian> I suppose those are in the source code?
[00:46:38] <SB-X> You have to do a lot of massaging of ucxt output to get it to look like ucc input. Func#### is probably a function call, which would be defined in the same output.
[00:47:12] <SB-X> intrinsics start with ui_
[00:47:17] <Dalian> aye
[00:47:41] <Dalian> I noticed it uses goto a lot also
[00:47:53] <Dalian> hehe
[00:48:15] <Dalian> goto labelFunc####
[00:48:39] <Dalian> I'll see if I can massage it any more than I did
[00:54:24] <Dalian> hmm
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[00:57:35] <SB-X> you must change most of the goto's to code blocks
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[00:58:38] <Dalian> that's what I was puzzling over...
[00:58:50] <SB-X> it would be better just to use the ucxt output to get an idea of what it's doing, not to try to convert it to ucc format
[00:58:59] <SB-X> just to read the usecode
[00:59:00] <SB-X> hi Marzo
[00:59:06] <Marzo> Hi
[00:59:28] <Dalian> I think I'm starting to see..I need to load up si and check something. I saw the eggs that trigger stealing had a function...now to see if I can find that in the output file and have it make sense
[00:59:52] <Marzo> Talking about usecode? I would recommend taking a loot at the Keyring mod or at the last TFL snapshot for that
[00:59:57] <Marzo> Tons of usecode
[01:00:28] <SB-X> yeah that's a better idea to get examples :)
[01:00:36] <berniers> Is the documentation still correct on bgkeyring? (compile usecode, rename to usecode, and move contents to patch directory?)
[01:00:49] <Marzo> I think so
[01:00:53] <Dalian> i'm not trying to convert it..just have it dump so it's understandable...the assembler format != understandable to me
[01:01:08] <Marzo> (been a while since I looked at it last... been meaning to do it, but keep postponing)
[01:01:28] <Dalian> scripting I can handle...assembler I cannot. I just don't think that way
[01:01:45] <Marzo> Hence my suggestion of the Keyring and TFL :-)
[01:01:55] <Marzo> Much more readable usecode
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[01:03:02] <berniers> Speaking of which, does anyone have any idea what the usecode patches do in bg/ and si/?
[01:03:09] <berniers> (do?)
[01:03:21] <Dalian> I've even used C+, worked with some sdks..this shouldn't be that hard :)
[01:03:36] <SB-X> Marzo should know. :)
[01:03:56] <Marzo> In /bg, it allows LB to join the party
[01:04:03] <SB-X> will know*
[01:04:23] <Marzo> In /si, it allows the curing of Cantra
[01:04:35] <Marzo> I based the Cantra cure in this one
[01:04:49] <Marzo> (the Cantra cure *in SI Fixes*)
[01:04:57] <berniers> Yeah, I read about that
[01:05:22] <berniers> Thanks, now I know what all those files are :-)
[01:06:14] <Dalian> oh Marzo..if I might ask. I found some article you wrote about usecode, but the site they are on seems to be down. Do those exist somewhere else? They were on wiredentertainment.net
[01:06:20] <Marzo> Also, in all of the present mods, there is a 'constants.uc' in '/src/headers' which lists several constants used in Usecode with extensive descriptions
[01:06:53] <Marzo> I have them in my HD
[01:07:14] <Marzo> I will see abot uploading them to Exult CVS, as they certainly belong there
[01:07:22] <Dalian> I'd say so :)
[01:07:41] <Marzo> And from the logs, I see that you inquired about intrinsics?
[01:08:06] <Dalian> I'm trying to get my head around usecode..heh
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[01:08:35] <Dalian> the info on it seems to be scattered everywhere and hard to come by for the most part
[01:08:58] <Marzo> There is intrinsic documentation in the Exult source
[01:09:10] <Marzo> (getting link)
[01:09:25] <Marzo> Here: http://exult.cvs.sourceforge.net/exult/exult/docs/exult_intrinsics.txt?revision=1.1&view=markup
[01:09:37] <Marzo> It is *the* authoritative list of intrinsics
[01:10:08] <Marzo> It lists all current intrinsics implemented in Exult, and which ones are available for BG and/or SI
[01:10:26] <Dalian> oooh
[01:10:39] <Marzo> It gives extensive detail of what each intrinsic does, and what it expects as parameters
[01:10:56] <Dalian> now why isn't this included in the Exult Tools snapshot? O.o
[01:11:09] <Marzo> That is a good question :-)
[01:11:27] <Marzo> (it *is* available in the Exult source, though)
[01:11:39] <Dalian> up until just now, the most detailed thing I could find was this: http://www.sophen.de/exult/
[01:11:50] <Dalian> and that's half in German ;)
[01:11:52] <Marzo> Yes, I know the link
[01:13:06] <Marzo> I think you will find the doc I linked to is much more detailed :-)
[01:13:26] <Marzo> And I certainly could use some input as to readability and all
[01:13:54] <Dalian> this should answer a lot of the questions I have
[01:14:08] <Dalian> I thank thee! heh
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[01:16:30] <Dalian> SB had directed me to that area earlier, but I didn't notice this for some reason
[01:17:02] <Marzo> It is probably because there are a lot of files there
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[01:17:37] <SB-X> yeah I just pointed out a link to the docs directory, but I couldn't easily tell which docs were about mod-making
[01:17:56] <Marzo> It could probably use some organization
[01:17:56] <SB-X> and I didn't read through the list to find out
[01:19:58] <wizardrydragon> Shameless plug: You could also read my UCC primer :)
[01:21:05] <Dalian> which is where? :)
[01:21:22] <Dalian> ok..I think the biggest question I have currently is this!
[01:22:39] <Dalian> the eggs that control stealing, for example. They call function 0x797
[01:23:37] <Dalian> but looking at the si usecode dump, it's not clear what it's doing
[01:23:58] <Dalian> i'm looking at the labelFunc0797 entries
[01:25:11] <Dalian> all I see are references to find_nearby, get_npc_number, and get_item_flag
[01:25:16] <SB-X> there are eggs controlling stealing?
[01:25:35] <Dalian> I believe so. They are on all the npc stuff in the shops
[01:25:42] <Dalian> and they all call 0x797
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[01:29:06] <Dalian> hmm maybe not
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[01:31:11] <Dalian> there are eggs on the armor/weapons in Monitor blacksmith. Odd..now I really wonder what they are doing
[01:32:13] <SB-X> Dalian: assuming you really need to look at SI's usecode, you are using the "C-like" output of UCXT, right?
[01:32:35] <SB-X> it doesn't look like assembler
[01:33:34] <Dalian> well, I was trying to use it to figure out stuff. I learn best by example
[01:34:07] <Dalian> hang on..I think I figured out what these eggs are doing
[01:34:58] <SB-X> The mods already in ready-to-compile UCC format that Marzo mentioned would be better examples to read, but I don't know if they use any eggs like that.
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[01:35:44] <Marzojr> ?log
[01:35:44] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[01:37:02] <Marzojr> Sorry, suffered a power loss
[01:37:15] <Marzojr> In a few minutes, I'll be back to being 'Marzo' again
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[01:39:12] <SB-X> and there you go :)
[01:39:16] <SB-X> heh
[01:39:48] <SB-X> wb Marzo
[01:40:13] <Marzo> Dalian: the labelFuncXXXX things in UCXT output are labels defining code locations
[01:40:29] <wizardrydragon> Marzo, are you using Gotos? :P
[01:40:31] <Marzo> Every 'goto' and such makes the code continue from the defined location
[01:40:46] <Marzo> UCXT does
[01:40:54] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[01:41:08] <SB-X> he's not looking at SI fixes or BG keyring mod
[01:41:25] <wizardrydragon> Definetly not TFL
[01:41:25] <Marzo> I was thinking of rewriting UCXT to have a more UCC-esque output, but I am trying to limit my to-do list to under 100 items :-)
[01:41:32] <wizardrydragon> I refuse to use gotos.
[01:41:35] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:42:16] <SB-X> you don't like spaghetti?
[01:42:31] <Marzo> gotos are the primary resource of an assembler programer, and the last resource of every other programmer :-)
[01:42:57] <wizardrydragon> Yes.
[01:42:59] <wizardrydragon> However,
[01:43:10] <wizardrydragon> I dislike it when my programs resemble pasta.
[01:44:34] <Dalian> aha!!
[01:45:10] <Dalian> I figured out...one egg is summoning a guard, the egg on the items causes them to attack you for taking it. If the egg isn't there, they ignore you taking it.
[01:46:10] <Dalian> Marzo: so labels aren't actually used in ucc script?
[01:46:52] <Marzo> They can be used; but you can use braces instead (similar to C/C++/Java)
[01:47:53] <Dalian> wizardy: still waiting for a link to your primer.. ;)
[01:49:17] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[01:49:46] <SB-X> lol
[01:50:42] <Marzo> Dalian: I *really* recommend that you don't pay too much attention to the UCXT output; while it certainly helped me while I was starting to toy with usecode, it is outdated by all standards
[01:54:14] <Baastuul> Quickly, what's the name of the provisioner and "advisor" in Vesper? Elrod or something?
[01:54:22] <Dalian> SB-X: which option is the "C-like"? I've tried all the output flags, and none resemble C. Marzo: hmm ok
[01:54:25] <wizardrydragon> Elrood
[01:54:39] <Baastuul> Are you absolutely sure?
[01:54:55] <Baastuul> Because that doesn't sound entirely right to me!
[01:55:09] <Baastuul> Actually, I think I know how to figure this out.
[01:55:14] <Marzo> It is Eldroth
[01:55:14] * Baastuul hops into Exult and hits F3 and heads for Vesper!
[01:55:18] <Baastuul> :O
[01:55:20] <Baastuul> That sounds better!
[01:55:23] <Marzo> (already did that)
[01:55:25] <Baastuul> Thanks. :)
[01:59:02] <Dalian> how hard would it be to add Mark and Recall to an SI game?
[01:59:22] <Dalian> rather..what would it involve, generally speaking?
[01:59:56] <Dalian> not a game of SI, but a game on a new map in SI
[01:59:57] <wizardrydragon> You could shamelesslhy copy Marzos reimplementation of them :)
[02:00:00] * wizardrydragon ducks.
[02:00:11] <Dalian> I was gonna ask if anyone had done that yet..heh
[02:00:21] <Marzo> It would require making two intrinsics available for SI first
[02:00:25] <Dalian> that's one of the things I've been putting off...looking at how spells work
[02:00:32] <Marzo> The relevant intrinsics are BG-only for now
[02:00:39] <Dalian> because I imagine they are complicated
[02:00:46] <Marzo> I recommend looking at the Keyring mod then
[02:01:02] <Marzo> I have reimplemented every spell in UCC format for casting by the NPCs
[02:01:07] <Dalian> ooh
[02:01:41] <Marzo> (it is far easier when you don't have to decode those UI_execute_usecode_array calls by hand)
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[02:10:13] <SB-X> Dalian: I don't remember ucxt's options.
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[02:12:31] <Marzo> I think it is '-fs'
[02:13:17] <Dalian> hmm..I must need more coffee. All I see is spellbook_override.uc, that relates to spells
[02:15:48] <wizardrydragon> try first_circle.uc, etc.
[02:16:24] <Marzo> The spellbook_override is just there to make the avatar use the same spells as everyone else
[02:16:31] <Dalian> oooh...I see how you did it, I think
[02:16:36] <Dalian> It's in the actual npc's functions
[02:17:44] <Marzo> ?
[02:17:52] <Dalian> hmm
[02:18:39] <wizardrydragon> ??
[02:18:48] <Marzo> The 0x640-0x687 functions are called automatically by Exult when you double-click the spell in the spellbook
[02:19:26] <Marzo> I just had these functions redirect to different functions so I could increase the number of spells per level for NPCs
[02:19:27] <Dalian> wizardry: I don't see files named that in the mod src..
[02:21:06] <Dalian> ahh I see.
[02:21:30] <Marzo> It should be in the same dir as the spellbook override
[02:21:49] <Marzo> Unless...
[02:22:04] <Marzo> Are you by any chance looking at the SI Fixes usecode?
[02:22:22] <Marzo> Hm. No, it doesn't have a 'spellbook_override.uc' file
[02:22:25] <Marzo> Nevermind
[02:22:49] <Dalian> I'm looking at version 0.10.00. The only thing in the spells folder is spellbook_override.uc
[02:22:56] <Marzo> Where did you get your version of the Keyring mod?
[02:23:11] <Marzo> I would recommend getting the one in the Exult source
[02:23:20] <Marzo> Or even better, get a TFL snapshot
[02:23:38] <Dalian> http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Keyring.zip
[02:23:50] <Dalian> yeah silly me for going for the first link I found
[02:23:51] <wizardrydragon> Sweet, pimpage from someone other than me :)
[02:23:52] <Marzo> Ah. That one is outdated
[02:24:16] <Marzo> Here is the link for the TFL snapshots: http://www.u7feudallands.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=201#201
[02:24:31] <wizardrydragon> Marzo
[02:24:35] <Marzo> And here is for the releases: http://www.u7feudallands.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=200#200
[02:24:37] <wizardrydragon> The new one is on the downloads page
[02:24:37] <Marzo> What?
[02:24:50] <Marzo> We have a downloads page?
[02:24:56] <wizardrydragon> Thats why we have a download page you silly silly man :)
[02:25:09] <wizardrydragon> http://www.u7feudallands.com
[02:25:12] <wizardrydragon> hit downloads
[02:25:19] <Marzo> Indeed
[02:25:45] <Marzo> (the forums are in my bookmarks, so I basically skip the homepage when I load the site)
[02:26:13] <SB-X> have you added a description of TFL to the website yet?
[02:26:46] <wizardrydragon> Its on the todo list
[02:26:54] <wizardrydragon> Also is screenshots
[02:27:09] <Marzo> Dalian: the Keyring mod in the version you downloaded was the very first public release I made
[02:27:41] <Dalian> heh
[02:27:42] <Marzo> Including the 'THIS is what you happen when you piss-off the map-makers' screenshots? :-)
[02:27:50] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[02:27:57] <Dalian> downloading tfl finally. It's not finished yet is it?
[02:28:03] <Marzo> Nope
[02:28:10] <Marzo> Technically, neither is the Keyring mod
[02:28:13] <wizardrydragon> I think theyre more like "this is what happens when Wizardry doesn't have his coffee" screenshots
[02:28:14] <Marzo> Nor SI Fixes
[02:28:15] <Dalian> sorry, I mean I am interested in playing it but haven't had the chance to look at it yet
[02:28:25] <Marzo> Nor Alun Bestor's Quests & Iteractions
[02:28:29] <Dalian> been too busy trying to decipher usecode..heh
[02:28:47] <Dalian> I can already tell you, the uc files in that keyring will be a huge help
[02:28:56] <wizardrydragon> You'll have to delete any u7map and *ifix files in your root install directory if you want to play
[02:28:59] <Marzo> All but TFl are completelly playable, though
[02:29:13] <Marzo> *TFL
[02:29:14] <Dalian> this is for BG right?
[02:29:19] <Marzo> Yes
[02:29:23] <Dalian> ok..I'm not currently playing BG, so I can do that
[02:29:26] <wizardrydragon> Im not sure why, but the new installer still does that, even when I explicilty changed the installer code not to do that.
[02:29:29] <Marzo> (all mods but SI Fixes are for BG)
[02:29:48] <Dalian> I was, but my game got bugged somehow. Nobody would talk about Elizabeth and Abraham after joining the Fellowship
[02:30:01] <Marzo> You can also use the new mod manager to, well, manage your mods
[02:30:28] <Marzo> (I still need to get it documented, though)
[02:30:59] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: the installer sets up TFL automatically
[02:31:03] <Marzo> That way, you'd be able to have all mods independently installed and playable
[02:31:10] <Marzo> (I know)
[02:31:22] <Dalian> you mean delete them from static, right?
[02:31:26] <Marzo> I was thinking about the others
[02:31:29] <Marzo> No
[02:31:35] <Marzo> Most emphatically no!
[02:31:41] <Dalian> heh
[02:32:04] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: the isntaller incorrectly installs them to the root install directory as well as static
[02:32:08] <Marzo> The static dir has data from the original game; delete it, and you might not be able to start a new game
[02:32:25] <wizardrydragon> So delete them if they appear in /ultima/mods/tfl/
[02:32:27] <Dalian> aye..just wondering what he meant
[02:33:01] <Marzo> TFL's default patch dir is called 'static'?
[02:33:19] <wizardrydragon> Umm, no Marzo
[02:33:29] <Dalian> *confused*...
[02:33:54] <Dalian> if it installs it to static, that's overwriting the original game
[02:33:59] <wizardrydragon> The u7map and *fix files from /map00/ get copied to the root directory as well, by the installer, Marzo
[02:34:02] <SB-X> what does "the root install directory" mean?
[02:34:15] <wizardrydragon> It's the reason behind Crysta's screenshots :)
[02:34:28] <Marzo> It is the part of the mod manager that I need to document
[02:34:36] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[02:35:03] <Marzo> Currently, Exult defines a 'mods' dir for each game defined in Exult.cfg
[02:35:25] <Marzo> You can edit the exact path to the dir, but the default is '<game>/mods'
[02:35:53] <Dalian> mine is from the Ultima Collection, so is in /ultima/ultima7
[02:36:07] <Marzo> You drop in one cfg file for each mod in this mods dir, similar to the one in TFL's installer
[02:37:51] <Marzo> The mod's cfg file can be used to configure the individual paths of important folders for the mod, or you can go with the (sensible) defaults it provides
[02:38:44] <Marzo> The default 'base' dir assigned to a mod is the same as the mod's cfg file sans the extension
[02:38:53] <Dalian> i started out in the woods with Iolo..is that right?
[02:39:01] <Marzo> In TFL's case, I believe it is 'tfl'
[02:39:09] <SB-X> ok
[02:39:24] <Marzo> Yes; it is likely the Gypsy intro Wizardry has been doing
[02:39:27] <SB-X> thanks for explaining that :)
[02:39:36] <Marzo> np :-)
[02:39:41] <wizardrydragon> it is correct if theres a badly assembled gypsy wagon
[02:39:52] <Marzo> lol
[02:40:00] <wizardrydragon> Wait, actyually, I think I deleted that for the snapshot
[02:40:06] <wizardrydragon> so nix the wagon
[02:41:32] <Dalian> do you mind constructive criticism?
[02:41:49] <SB-X> uh oh
[02:42:09] <Marzo> Detructive criticism is much more fun :-)
[02:42:15] <Marzo> *destructive
[02:42:28] * wizardrydragon points at the big sign that says "use development snapshot at yhour own risk."
[02:42:33] <SB-X> here we go :)
[02:42:34] <SB-X> heh
[02:42:36] <Dalian> or is the map just very rough at this point?
[02:42:44] <Dalian> because it's kind of a mess
[02:42:47] <Marzo> 'yhour'?
[02:42:54] <SB-X> hehe
[02:42:54] <Marzo> :-)
[02:43:19] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: yep, it is
[02:43:20] <Dalian> oh wait
[02:43:24] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: well TFL is
[02:43:29] <Dalian> i forgot to check for those files
[02:43:37] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: If britannia is a mess then you need to delete those files
[02:44:48] <Dalian> I found some buildings but they were all messed up looking
[02:45:08] <wizardrydragon> Yep, thats the files that were copied incorrectly
[02:45:37] <Dalian> now can you explain again which ones I'm supposed to delete?
[02:46:33] <wizardrydragon> u7map and any *fix files in the TFL dir
[02:46:36] <Dalian> so far I've not been working on stuff as a mod per se, but simply in a patch folder, so I'm uncertain what's going on he
[02:46:53] <Marzo> wizardrydragon: a question about NSIS
[02:46:59] <Dalian> in tfl dir there is only gamedat, patch, and savegames
[02:47:00] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: shoot
[02:47:06] <Marzo> *bang*
[02:47:08] <wizardrydragon> I mean files, not dirs.
[02:47:21] * wizardrydragon whips out his RPG launcher and returns fire.
[02:47:45] <Marzo> In the installation, you call 'SetOutPath' before calling 'File'
[02:47:47] <Sevalecan> D:
[02:47:53] <wizardrydragon> Yes
[02:47:57] <Marzo> Is this to set the destination then set the source files?
[02:48:03] <wizardrydragon> Which is why its confusing me that it's going in the wrong place
[02:48:17] <Dalian> oh you mean in the root patch folder?
[02:48:19] <Marzo> What files do you have in "D:\Ultima\patch\"
[02:48:22] <wizardrydragon> I expliciltly set the dir its going in to be the right one
[02:49:12] <wizardrydragon> Marzo, it's in the cvs if you wanna poke around with it
[02:49:14] <Dalian> in mods/tfl/patch, there is u7 and u7ifix files
[02:49:30] <wizardrydragon> u7map and u7ifix files need to be deleted then
[02:49:32] <Dalian> those shouldn't be there afaik, unless you modified the main BG map
[02:49:35] <Dalian> right ok
[02:50:07] <Marzo> I think he should delete those in mods/tfl, not?
[02:50:16] <wizardrydragon> In mods.tfl
[02:50:18] <wizardrydragon> Yes
[02:50:42] <Marzo> There *are* changes to the BG map in TFL, as it is based on the Keyring mod
[02:50:47] <wizardrydragon> :)
[02:51:00] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: just not in the root dir, obviously
[02:51:06] <wizardrydragon> Shoulsd be in map00
[02:51:33] * Marzo knows
[02:52:01] <Dalian> hmm nope..somethign still not right
[02:52:14] <Marzo> Please elaborate
[02:52:27] <Dalian> i'll put up a screenshot for you
[02:52:36] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: this could be interesting :)
[02:53:02] <Marzo> A new 'Don't mess with the map makers' moment, maybe?
[02:53:06] <Marzo> :-)
[02:53:13] <wizardrydragon> :-D
[02:54:01] <Dalian> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/Nixlplix/tflscreen.jpg
[02:54:16] <Dalian> this is north of where you start out
[02:54:25] <Marzo> In the TFL map?
[02:54:32] <Dalian> yeah
[02:54:37] <Marzo> Scrap that; in the map 01?
[02:54:45] <Dalian> I dunno..it's where it started me out
[02:54:58] <Marzo> Try hitting Ctrl+Alt+t until you reach map 0 (Britannia)
[02:55:20] <Marzo> Then you do it again to get to that map you were in
[02:56:09] <Dalian> started out on map 02
[02:56:26] <Marzo> Can you give aprox. coords?
[02:57:45] <Dalian> ok, I did find a proper looking city. Royal guards. The building they are in has no walls
[02:58:58] <Dalian> hang on
[02:59:18] <Marzo> The true answer to goto statements is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_from
[02:59:20] <Marzo> :-)
[02:59:54] <Dalian> the strange buildins in the cap are at 1662, 2174,00
[03:00:16] <Marzo> wizardrydragon: you taking notes?
[03:00:18] * Marzo ducks
[03:00:18] <Dalian> roughly
[03:00:21] <wizardrydragon> Not really.
[03:00:24] <Marzo> :-)
[03:00:34] <wizardrydragon> The only city that's at all done is Virtue's Hold and even it isnt done
[03:01:16] * Marzo agrees
[03:03:22] <Dalian> are those buildings maybe just placeholders?
[03:03:36] <Marzo> Possibly
[03:03:37] <Dalian> i looked to make sure I didn't have any odd files
[03:03:42] <Dalian> that might be messing it up
[03:04:00] <Dalian> they exist on several areas of the map
[03:04:07] <Marzo> Or possibly the result of a corruption of u7chunks that wizardrydragon experienced in the past
[03:04:49] <Dalian> hmm I did back that folder up recently..I'll copy over it and see
[03:04:54] <wizardrydragon> Many buildings are placeholders
[03:05:00] <wizardrydragon> Currently
[03:05:04] <Dalian> olk
[03:05:13] <wizardrydragon> But if u7chunks exists, delete it
[03:05:30] <Dalian> it doesn't in the patch folder, no
[03:05:32] <Marzo> (in the mod's patch, of course)
[03:06:18] <Dalian> is it supposed to contain occlude.dat, shapes.vga, etc?
[03:06:23] <wizardrydragon> AYes
[03:06:26] <Dalian> ok
[03:06:32] <wizardrydragon> Though I dont know what occlude.dat does, even
[03:06:41] <Dalian> i read about it and promptly forgot
[03:07:10] <Dalian> "set if the shape completely occludes the space it is covering"
[03:07:11] <Marzo> It is for occlusion; a shape with its corresponding occlusion bit set will completely occlude all others
[03:07:53] <Marzo> (and *very* recently extended to support shapes >1023)
[03:08:02] <Dalian> ok, now I gotta look at the keyring mod :p
[03:08:23] <Marzo> It has no fancy installer for it
[03:08:27] <Dalian> i'm curious more than anything. I'm not currently intending on messing with the spells
[03:10:15] <Dalian> seems fairly straightforward. Basically you can make a spell to do anything that an intrinsic can do, within reason
[03:10:32] <Marzo> And more
[03:14:00] <Dalian> would you could really abuse this usecode. Oh wait, they did in SI..hehe
[03:14:07] <Dalian> would = wow
[03:14:24] <Marzo> I do in the Keyring mod :-)
[03:14:40] <wizardrydragon> I do with any code i program
[03:14:42] <wizardrydragon> :)
[03:15:32] <Marzo> There are some cutscenes in the Keyring mod that are heabily scripted, with multiple actors doing different things simultaneously, all carefully synchronized to yield the desired result
[03:15:45] <wizardrydragon> Heabily?
[03:15:48] <Marzo> The original usecode was *not* meant for that :-)
[03:16:08] <Marzo> D*** 'b' key stands too close to the 'v' key :-)
[03:16:18] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[03:18:03] <Dalian> that's nice how you can keep the uc files separate and compile them together. I didn't realize that
[03:18:31] <Marzo> Like I said, UCXT output is way too outdated ;-)
[03:18:40] <Dalian> the picture is coming into focus
[03:20:24] <Dalian> since tfl isn't ready yet..where is the newest version of the keyring by itself to play?
[03:20:42] <Marzo> The newest is in the Exult source
[03:21:01] <Marzo> You will have to manually compile the usecode and copy it to the right dir
[03:21:37] <Marzo> You can compile it with something along the lines of 'ucc -o usecode usecode.uc'
[03:21:54] <Marzo> Then copy the 'usecode' file to the 'data' dir
[03:22:14] <Marzo> And copy the contents of the 'data' dir to your patch dir
[03:22:28] <Marzo> I need to make an installer for it or sometihng...
[03:23:40] <Dalian> ah..I figured to copy the data to patch..didn't notice you have to compile the usecode yet..heh
[03:28:10] <wizardrydragon> You could shamelesslhy copy the TFL installer as long as you reprogram the compression and extraction pathsa properly
[03:28:35] <wizardrydragon> The code is in /win32installer in case you didnt already guess :)
[03:28:41] <Marzo> The same installer that keeps installing files in the wrong dir? :-)
[03:28:48] <wizardrydragon> Heh
[03:29:09] <wizardrydragon> I know whats wrong with it but Im too lazy to rewrite it at the moment.
[03:29:17] <Marzo> What is it?
[03:29:41] <Marzo> Because I am considering using Inno Setup instead
[03:30:23] <Marzo> Well, I am going to bed now
[03:30:29] <Marzo> Good night to you all
[03:30:39] <Dalian> hmm it's already compiled
[03:31:03] <Marzo> Is there an 'usecode' file in the data dir?
[03:31:11] <Dalian> yep
[03:31:23] <wizardrydragon> Inno Setup?
[03:31:30] <Dalian> same size as the one I compiled, so it must be right
[03:31:31] <Marzo> I would recommend doing it anyway as I don't think it is up to date
[03:31:37] <Dalian> I'll copy over just in case tho
[03:31:47] <Dalian> g'night then!
[03:31:51] <Marzo> Inno setup: http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php
[03:31:55] <Marzo> Good night
[03:31:59] <wizardrydragon> Ill poke around then
[03:32:03] <wizardrydragon> Sleep well Marzo
[03:32:07] <-- Marzo has left IRC ("Marzo vanishes suddenly.")
[03:32:09] <Dalian> don't let the Guardian bite
[03:32:15] * Dalian ducks
[03:32:32] <wizardrydragon> Remember: to return to the land of the waking, find the pillar of fire!
[03:32:52] <Dalian> :)
[03:33:28] <Dalian> Shamino says, "This is Dungeon Exult!"
[03:34:40] <Dalian> it was kind of funny going into Destard in BG when I was replaying it for first time in awhile. After having played UO for so long. Destard is considerably more dangerous in UO..heh
[03:34:54] <wizardrydragon> Winds!
[03:35:13] <wizardrydragon> It will be considerably more dangerous in TFL :)
[03:36:04] <Dalian> Wind?
[03:36:15] <wizardrydragon> Not as u4 player I see :)
[03:36:24] <Dalian> yeah that's right...they changed the name in UO
[03:36:48] <wizardrydragon> All of the Dungeons will be more challenging in TFL.
[03:36:53] <wizardrydragon> Or at the least much bigger
[03:37:09] <Dalian> in UO, Destard has shadow and ancient wyrms
[03:37:21] <Dalian> not on the first level of course
[03:37:31] <Dalian> shadow wyrms are mean :(
[03:37:54] <Dalian> they recently gave them necromancer abilities
[03:38:58] <servus> Yeah, and their loot still stinks.
[03:39:05] <servus> Still not too hard to solo them though
[03:40:15] <Dalian> everything's loot stinks just about
[03:40:57] <Dalian> probably because I don't really use Luck on any of my chars
[03:41:18] <Dalian> what's your main shard?
[03:41:49] <Dalian> I call Pacific home
[03:42:49] <wizardrydragon> I still play from time to time on Perious
[03:43:47] <Dalian> i managed to get almost 2 dozen pieces of blackrock before it stopped spawning. I wonder what it'll be used for
[03:44:53] <Dalian> tried different things..even dug up Rudyom's notes from BG for ideas
[03:45:46] <Dalian> tried casting lightning and energy bolt on it..heh
[03:45:48] * wizardrydragon still wants Rudyom's Wand so he can blow up characters carrying Blackrock at random
[03:46:00] <Dalian> heh
[03:46:48] <Dalian> i noticed they named it 'black rock' instead of 'blackrock.' Sheesh
[03:47:12] <Dalian> oh well at least they are trying to put more ultima into the game
[03:47:43] <Dalian> I noticed that the new veteran reward player statues look suspiciously like statues you see in BG/SI
[03:49:02] <wizardrydragon> :)
[03:51:15] <Dalian> the blackrock stuff..almost makes me wonder if the Guardian is going to show up
[03:52:08] <Dalian> if I start seeing Fellowship Halls pop up, then I'll start to worry..heh
[03:53:20] <wizardrydragon> If I do then Im going top destroy britannia
[03:53:32] <wizardrydragon> better than having it end up in an sascension rerun
[03:55:08] <Dalian> I'm not 100% clear on the timeline..but I think it's actually way too early for him in the timeline. As it is, the Avatar doesn't exist in these shards
[03:55:16] <Dalian> He is only known as the Stranger
[03:55:34] <Dalian> He/she
[03:55:35] <Dalian> ;)
[03:56:15] <Dalian> I tried reading a rough timeline someone put together and it made my head hurt a bit
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[03:56:22] <servus> IIRC, Blackthorne is still alive in UO.
[03:57:29] <Dalian> he shattered the gem, and was never seen again except in the one shard that the rest of his adventures take place in
[03:57:33] <wizardrydragon> Hello, ShadwChsr
[04:01:31] <Dalian> actually the first ultima I played was 4
[04:01:47] <Dalian> but I played the NES version
[04:02:00] <ShadwChsr> Hi
[04:02:02] <Dalian> it was still enough to get me hooked on Ultima
[04:02:57] <Dalian> and actually, I came up with this name for U4, and have used it ever since. My best char in UO is Dalian
[04:03:16] <Dalian> and that's my story..hehe
[04:04:11] <Dalian> he's a Legendary swordsman and a paladin
[04:24:24] <Dalian> I think my head is going to explode
[04:24:43] <ShadwChsr> Why?
[04:24:51] <Dalian> lol
[04:25:53] <Dalian> i was desperate for some usecode examples, and the keyring mod provided a ton
[04:26:28] <Dalian> i went from information deficit to information overload :)
[04:30:22] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:32:35] <Dalian> so do I understand this right? The keyring mod completely overrides everything?
[04:32:48] <Dalian> it's like the complete usecode for the game?
[04:33:33] <Dalian> was that done to avoid potential conflicts? I'm trying to understand why he'd redo it all
[04:34:12] <wizardrydragon> Not everything
[04:34:39] <wizardrydragon> Anyways, I must get to bed
[04:34:40] <wizardrydragon> Night
[04:34:58] <Dalian> night!
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[05:29:20] <servus> Added ICE, ICEMOUNTAIN, OPHIDIANSTONE, VOID, VOIDDIRT, LAVA, FAWNSTONE... There aren't any other SI chunk types, are there?
[05:29:26] <servus> (That are new to SI from BG)
[05:42:59] <Dalian> hmm
[05:45:37] <Dalian> nothing comes to mind
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[06:33:05] <servus> Alright, everything set up! Now to just actually *catalogue* these... 3072 chunks... again.
[06:38:24] <Dalian> ouch
[06:38:43] <Dalian> it's hard enough organizing them into ES groups
[06:39:57] <servus> I guess I have practice :p
[06:42:12] <Dalian> now that the keyring mod source has shown me the light, I think I'll be making some progress finally
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[07:00:05] <servus> 8.3% done! I feel like I'm macroing in UO.
[07:00:43] <Dalian> heh
[07:01:18] <Dalian> my treasure hunter should hit gm lockpicking tomorrow. 1 measley gain a day since 95 skill
[07:01:48] <servus> That's a lot of gain. It used to take much, much longer.
[07:02:00] <servus> Do you mean 1.0 or 0.1? :)
[07:02:05] <Dalian> 0.1
[07:02:43] <servus> Ah, good old UO :)
[07:03:07] <servus> Firefox... 800MB RAM used... I know this is a heavy web-app, but that's ridiculous!
[07:03:08] <Dalian> this es stuff is really robbing me of my play time...not that I'm complaining
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[07:33:40] <Dalian> Hmm...why doesn't duplicating a chunk use the last available # rather than inserting it? problematic..
[07:34:58] <Dalian> I could just hit 'move down' 3000 times? heh
[07:42:48] <Dalian> it's ok, there's another way to do what I wanted to do
[08:04:02] <servus> Whew, half done. Enough for tonight.
[08:04:09] <servus> 0x5fd to 0xbff.//
[08:04:27] * servus rubs his eye and hides in the heath and clover.
[08:04:57] <Dalian> coffee!!
[08:08:52] <Dalian> you know what kind of amazes me about the u7 engine, as far as editing goes?
[08:11:50] <servus> You don't have to wait for my approval to ramble : o)
[08:11:51] <Dalian> most everything else I've modded for required pathnodes in order for NPCs to find their way around.
[08:12:02] <Dalian> lol..don't like talking to myself either :D
[08:12:07] <Dalian> thought you left
[08:12:42] <Dalian> so relieved you don't have to worry about pathnodes. my npc can find his way from home to his job just fine. hehe
[08:13:37] <servus> You need pathnodes for Exult Deathmatch bots, though.
[08:14:42] <Dalian> ?
[08:14:47] <Dalian> lol
[08:17:00] <Dalian> i was involved with a Morrowind mod for awhile, but it kind of fell apart. Shame too, we'd gotten halfway through it.
[08:17:29] <Dalian> and no csg in u7... \o/
[08:17:44] <Dalian> no leaks..none of those headaches
[08:18:37] <Dalian> i messed around modding Half-Life 2 when it first came out, but that was a royal pain to work with. Cool engine tho
[08:19:29] <servus> Source is significantly slower than Doom 3, buggier than Doom 3, looks worse than Doom 3, and more of a pain to develop for.
[08:21:21] <Dalian> I never worked with that..but I did Unreal Tournament 2
[08:26:35] <Colourless> U7 uses a tile based engine. That makes it really easy to pathfind
[08:27:04] <Colourless> *easy is defined as easy compared to true 3d pathfinding
[08:28:08] <Dalian> true
[08:32:15] <servus> This is pretty off-topic, but how I bemoan the fate of Arx Fatalis 2! We don't need ANOTHER Might & Magic!
[08:37:39] <Dalian> they're making another one?
[08:38:19] <Dalian> I loved 6, liked 7 a lot, hated 9
[08:38:44] <Dalian> i skipped 8
[08:40:32] <servus> They're all the same.
[08:40:45] <servus> Let me guess who the newest one ends: IN A SPACESHIP. *Gurgles and falls over, convulsing*
[08:40:57] * servus twitch-twitches a hoof
[08:47:09] <wjp> actually 8 (or maybe 9) didn't end in a spaceship
[08:51:56] <Dalian> i couldn't handle the gameplay in 9 long enough to find out
[08:52:10] <wjp> was 9 the first 3D one?
[08:53:23] <wjp> (if so, I meant 8)
[08:53:57] <Dalian> yeah
[08:54:05] <Dalian> that ruined it for me too I think
[08:54:09] <wjp> I never played 9
[08:55:13] <Darke> I don't know what the 'Source' based one ended in, and I never finished 9 (was too buggy at first release), but I can't recall 8 ending at a spaceship. Didn't it have something like a bunch of elemental planes you needed to go to or something?
[08:55:32] <wjp> I can't really remember the end of 8...
[08:55:48] <wjp> I do remember that there was this 'vault of time' or something which I was convinced was going to be a spacesip
[08:55:51] <wjp> s/sip/ship/
[08:56:03] <Darke> Yeah, I remember that too.
[08:56:37] * Darke keeps getting confused with Wizardry 8 and M&M9, since he was playing both around the same time... dammit, now I want to install them again. Really need to finish both. *grin*
[09:00:08] <Dalian> ahh wizardry 8 was a blast
[09:01:15] <Dalian> baldur's gate 2 is still one of my all-time favorites tho..I beat that 3 times, twice with the expansion
[09:09:42] <servus> Something about an alien "organic" spaceship in one of them. Maybe 7 (Mandate of Heaven?)
[09:10:10] <servus> The Source one isn't out yet. The demo was just recently released... and it BSOD's my computer when I tried to load a save game, and looking at a certain wall gives me less than 1FPS : o)
[09:10:35] <Darke> 7 had a space ship. 8 doesn't have any spacey kinda stuff, according to the couple of walkthroughs I read.
[09:10:42] <servus> Planescape Torment is much better than Baldur's Gate, IMHO
[09:10:55] <Dalian> i think 8's the one where they added dragons as party members
[09:10:58] <servus> If you have to fight Cuisinart 5000's, you're on a spaceship.
[09:11:17] <Dalian> i have PT also, just never did finish it
[09:11:19] <Darke> *nod* 8 had dragons, they were cool.
[09:11:25] <servus> Darke just likes dragons
[09:11:38] <Dalian> i can't remember why at the moment, because it was pretty cool
[09:11:39] <servus> I haven't played 8. Is it worth it?
[09:12:06] <Dalian> i now is I played that Tower subgame more than the actual game..hehe
[09:12:14] <Dalian> *know
[09:12:28] <Dalian> Towers, wasn't it?
[09:12:55] <Darke> If you can stand the old engine. It's basicly the same engine as 6 and 7, but with more bits added. I actually played 8, then went back to play 7, and didn't like it as much the engine didn't feel as polished I figure.
[09:13:01] <Dalian> an extremely simplified version of MTG
[09:13:42] <servus> Well M&M2 is still my favourite, so I can stand "old engines" : o)
[09:14:34] <Darke> If you liked 7, then you'll probably like 8. And there's no spaceships too by the looks of things. *grin*
[09:15:21] <servus> I can't even remember 5, 6, and 7 apart from each other though.
[09:15:41] <Dalian> hmm
[09:15:53] <servus> Or even 4 for that matter. 2 and 3 are easy.
[09:15:59] <Dalian> 7's the one where you get the Keep, iirc
[09:16:30] <Dalian> they do kind of blur together a bit tho
[09:16:34] * servus casts Morf's Magic Spaceship Endgame.
[09:17:29] <servus> spacship.exe HISSSSJIVE
[09:17:36] <wjp> subgame? Arcomage?
[09:17:49] <Dalian> ahh yeah something like that. You had to play it at an Inn
[09:18:07] <servus> I think I remember the name :)
[09:18:52] <servus> http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/might-and-magic-viii-day-of-the-destroyer/screenshots/gameShotId,20285/
[09:19:00] <Dalian> i actually played the game once up to the point where you get the deck, just so I could play it
[09:19:13] <wjp> there was a standalone version as well
[09:19:17] <Dalian> was there?!
[09:19:21] <Dalian> I always wondered
[09:19:25] <servus> Even looking at the screenshots, I can't remember if I've played this one
[09:19:30] <servus> Did you guys play Master of Magic?
[09:19:39] <servus> There was a standalone artifact maker program : o)
[09:19:53] <Dalian> yeah that's the game...it was so addictive
[09:20:29] <servus> If there were a multiplayer version of Master of Magic - with as little changed as possible (except for bugfixes... :), well! My spots would just fall right off. That's with Microprose needs to come back from the grave to do.
[09:21:41] <Darke> Master of Magic was cool too. I'm a little suprised no-one's made a remake of it. Other games of the era, MoO, X-Com, etc seem to have enough opensource remakes and rebuilt engines. *grin*
[09:22:20] <wjp> remake... hmmm... :-)
[09:22:39] <servus> There is a remake
[09:22:48] <servus> It looks horrible though, and is typical open source vapourware
[09:23:04] <servus> MoM is definitely in my "Top 5 Games Of All Time" list, though.
[09:23:45] * Darke decoded 95%ish of the MoM 'packed' graphics file format years ago... it took him silly amounts of time to work it out.
[09:24:25] <servus> Hey, I did my share!
[09:24:37] <servus> Oh, thought you said, uhh, Tunnels : o)
[09:24:58] <servus> The graphics were charming, but not what made it a great game
[09:25:15] <servus> I think I still have my... 1,000 page full-colour spell manual from MoM somewhere? Gosh, remember when games had manuals? :)
[09:25:37] <Darke> Nah. We never did work out how that silly decoding algorythm of Tunnels and Trolls worked, did we?
[09:25:41] <Darke> Heh.
[09:25:43] <servus> We got most of it!
[09:25:46] <servus> We got frustrated
[09:26:13] <servus> And their crazy obfuscation... Sweet lord!
[09:26:25] * Darke has an original, sealed, boxed copy of MoM on his shelf at his parents place. Ironicly enough, bought it, like, 3 years ago, with another boxed original copy. At a computer games store obviously trying to clear out some ancient warehouses. *grin*
[09:26:31] <Darke> Yeah, it was a bit daft.
[09:26:42] <servus> At least we got all the strings. That's a feat.
[09:27:06] <servus> So, let's remake MoM! It should only take a few days. *Snicker*
[09:28:50] <Darke> Heh. No thanks.
[09:28:52] <servus> Was it just me that, in MoM, worked on good artifacts for a single spellcasting hero and just destroyed the world with him? : o)
[09:31:15] <Darke> Sounds about like the tactic I regularly used.
[09:32:40] <servus> Gosh! I wish I had a summer vacation!
[09:32:48] <servus> I'd, um, work on stuff! *Slow nodding*
[09:35:19] <Darke> I'm tempted to take a few weeks off work to do some real coding for a bit. All this webstuff coding and support I'm doing is dulling my coding brain. *grin* Of course the problem is I'd, like, probably get distracted by games or something and get nothing done.
[09:37:42] <servus> I know what you mean. I just wrote an Ultima VII tool in PHP.. *blink-blink*
[09:39:44] <Darke> Right. And I'm playing with this low-level 3d game library thing, and what am I using? Python. I'm wondering if I'm going soft, or something. *grin*
[09:40:01] <servus> What was that again? You mentioned it to me a while ago...
[09:40:04] <servus> Something bizarre
[09:40:10] <servus> 3D graphics are incredibly easy, though :)
[09:40:34] <servus> So is scripting. It's gameplay mechanics, physics and most especially content creation that's the torture!
[09:42:39] <Darke> I don't mind physics, despite the fact I dislike doing 3d mathsy stuff, but I really like gameplay mechanics. Content creation still sucks, as there's no real easy way to automate it.
[09:44:24] <servus> I can pump out a lot of content. It's the creative stuff that I have trouble with.
[09:44:35] <servus> Simple physics is easy. Edge cases make my hair fall out.
[09:44:58] <servus> Especially since I have a nasty habit of trying to get something "perfect", so that I never move on... and of course, nothing is ever perfect.
[09:47:55] <Dalian> I'm a little bit better with the creative stuff. I hit a wall with programming. I could do it at the SDK level but working with hardware directly and file formats wasn't something I could get a good grasp on. Stuff like the usecode I can handle. Not much lower level though
[09:59:54] <Dalian> trade ya :)
[10:04:12] <servus> If I have a clear spec, I can make any content you want. It's just that clear specifications are a rare and wild beast : o)
[10:06:11] <Dalian> Maybe because the best stuff is spontaneous
[10:08:31] <Dalian> sorry, just rambling I think
[10:10:08] <Dalian> you got me thinking about a movie..they wrote the script, then when they actually had the props and stuff made, they filmed an almost completely different movie because they came up with better ideas then
[10:24:13] <Dalian> what the heck could i have done to end up with double chunks in a tile??
[10:25:28] <Dalian> oh I see what's going on..weird
[10:27:37] <Dalian> Even though I'm editing on map #01. When it starts up the editor says it's on Main. If I switch it to Map #01 I get double chunks from the building I last made
[10:29:31] <Dalian> ie, if I move a piece from the chunk, there's another one in its place
[10:30:43] <Dalian> dunno if that's a bug, or something I did. Just thought I'd 'report' it
[10:31:37] <servus> I don't know what you mean by "double chunks". Only one chunk can exist anywhere at a time.
[10:33:28] <Dalian> like if there is a wall piece on the chunk..I can move it and there's another one there. I can move that one too
[10:35:15] <Dalian> I dunno what's going on..something to do with changing maps
[10:36:07] <Dalian> it might gotten corrupt, because after I finished the last building I noticed some random mountain tiles were wrong. Some were void cliffs, some were the wrong direction, etc
[10:36:10] <servus> You mean in your IFIX?
[10:37:00] * servus snooooooooooores and falls over, dead asleep *thwump*... *snore*... *snore*... what's that bunny-shaped thing under me?.. *snore*... *snore*.. (night!)
[10:39:10] <Dalian> night
[10:40:00] <Dalian> oh man..yah the caves I made are all messed up
[10:40:20] <Dalian> time to check the backup I made
[10:42:33] <Dalian> messed up as well
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[14:23:39] * SB-X wishes he knew what all this Might and Magic and Wizardry nonsense you people were talking about was.
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[21:19:48] <Dominus> hi
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[21:38:23] <berniers> Is there an install script similar to the .bat script available for dos/win in content/bgkeyring?
[21:38:58] <Dominus> no
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[21:44:09] <berniers> I'm assuming I'll have to work it out?
[21:44:31] <berniers> Or is there a site with instructions...
[21:44:44] <berniers> or another source of information that I can consult?
[21:45:10] <Dominus> the readme, should work fine and also the bat file can be read and the instructions followed
[21:46:33] <berniers> I didn't see anything linux specifc in those files...
[21:46:45] <Dominus> it isn't linux specific
[21:47:28] <Dominus> look at that part in the readme: 2 Installing the mod
[21:48:13] <wjp> specifically the second method: 'Copy the contents of the "data" folder to your BG's PATCH folder.'
[21:48:30] <wjp> we didn't really think a script for that would help :-)
[21:48:59] <Dominus> actually building the data isn't yet done by a makefile, I *think*
[21:49:08] <wjp> but it's pre-built
[21:49:19] <wjp> so if you don't change anything, it isn't necessary
[21:49:22] <Dominus> ah, yeah, true :)
[21:49:36] <wjp> (not that I'm particularly happy about built files being in cvs, but that's another issue)
[21:50:35] <Dominus> yeah, too many binaries, a script like the one in the sf island one would be better (not that that one is perfect)
[22:03:05] <berniers> So as long as I compile the usecode and copy the data file everything should work under linux?
[22:03:42] <Dominus> actually even the usecode is precompiled in the data dir
[22:04:04] <berniers> great; thanks dominus
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[22:16:32] <Dominus> wizardrydragon, Marzo (when you read the logs), if you think any file should be included in the snapshots, best take that up with Kirben. I'm sure he will gladly include files.
[22:17:24] <Dominus> I write this because I saw you think exult_intrinsics.txt should be in the ES snapshot. I think so, too, but I'm almost never here when kirben is, so it'S up to you! :)
[22:17:43] <wizardrydragon> Im drawing a blank, but my head isn't on right now, call back later.
[22:17:50] <Dominus> he he
[22:18:04] * wjp presses power button on wizardrydragon's head
[22:18:06] <wizardrydragon> Include my ucc_doc.txt :)
[22:18:08] <wjp> there :-)
[22:18:39] <Dominus> I think it came up with Dlaian the other day, could be it wasn't you that mentioned it as being nice to have in the snapshot
[22:19:03] <wizardrydragon> I think it was Marzo actually, but its a sentiment I'd agree with nonetheless
[22:19:29] <Dominus> it needs to be in cvs to be includeable :) (ucc_docs.txt)
[22:19:41] <wjp> I'm really tempted to plug in pentagram's build system in exult and add proper rules for all the generated files everywhere
[22:19:51] <wjp> and add proper cross-compiling support and such
[22:19:51] <wizardrydragon> It's in the TFL cvs, dom :)
[22:20:29] <Dominus> wjp: feel free to be creative with exult :)
[22:20:41] * wizardrydragon has also been stealing, er, liberating Pentagram code for Exult lately.
[22:21:16] <wjp> I don't think the pentagram people mind ;-)
[22:21:45] <wizardrydragon> Ive been stealing the layered rendering
[22:22:21] <wjp> which part do you mean?
[22:22:34] <Dominus> what are you doing with it?
[22:22:37] <wizardrydragon> http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/u7feudallands/tfl/ucc_doc.txt?revision=1.4&viewBy the way: http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/u7feudallands/tfl/ucc_doc.txt?revision=1.4&view=markup
[22:22:40] <wizardrydragon> blah
[22:22:42] <wizardrydragon> http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/u7feudallands/tfl/ucc_doc.txt?revision=1.4&view=markup
[22:22:54] <wizardrydragon> See, its in cvs ;)
[22:23:18] <wjp> for some reason I totally missed you were a SF project
[22:23:20] <Dominus> he he :)
[22:23:24] <wizardrydragon> Though unless your name is Marzo you'll have to wait for the commit I just did to trickle down to anon cvs :)
[22:23:43] <wizardrydragon> wjp: is it that hard to miss the big SF.net button near the bottom?
[22:23:49] <wizardrydragon> of the site, that is
[22:23:58] <wizardrydragon> 'Spose you didn't read that far :)
[22:24:00] <wjp> I might not have looked at the site much either, actually :-)
[22:24:24] <wizardrydragon> Remember that doc?
[22:24:43] <wjp> I haven't spent much time at all on exult-related things for quite some time, unfortunately
[22:24:44] <wizardrydragon> A lot of it is still the original one I wrote when UCC itself was all new and shiny :)
[22:24:58] <wizardrydragon> Back in '04 :)
[22:26:06] <SB-X> I see no problem with including compiled binaries in Exult CVS that are platform-independant and used by Exult.
[22:26:39] <SB-X> compiled usecode or packaged flex data
[22:26:41] <wizardrydragon> could be a hell of an issue if they use svn, but I dont know if theyh do or not.
[22:27:28] <Dominus> SB-X: it would just be cleaner to have them generated instead of keeping them in CVS, much like we do with the flx files
[22:28:00] <wizardrydragon> Hah
[22:28:19] <wizardrydragon> The TFL cvs is already a mess from several asttempts to initialize the cvs that failed :)
[22:28:38] <wjp> wizardrydragon: how much of exult's renderer are you planning to rewrite?
[22:28:59] <wizardrydragon> I have yet to determine how much of it *needs* to be rwritten
[22:29:12] <wizardrydragon> And Im not rerwriting anything if I don't have to :-)
[22:29:12] <wjp> 'much' is probably a fair approximation :)
[22:29:38] <wizardrydragon> I'll put it this way: don't expect it done anytime soon :-)
[22:30:26] <wizardrydragon> Exult is, however, seeing a lot of fixes and change lately, which is good :)
[22:31:23] <Dominus> yeah, I wish Ryan had more time (and probably interest :)) to do the pentagram thing with exult :(
[22:31:35] <wizardrydragon> Heh
[22:31:38] <Dominus> but that only reminds me of the things I really need to do...
[22:31:58] * Dominus hides behind the notes for the faq and cos...
[22:32:09] * wizardrydragon is trying to ignore "real life" to see it goes away
[22:32:17] <Dominus> how much can you butcher docs to get a cos? :)
[22:33:24] <wizardrydragon> lol
[22:33:25] <SB-X> hehe
[22:33:53] <wizardrydragon> http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/u7feudallands/tfl/ucc_doc.txt?revision=1.4&view=markup thats the web link for the docs, in case Dalian comes around
[22:33:58] <wizardrydragon> :)
[22:34:18] * Dominus points at Matt_O and screams: It's all his fault!!!
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[22:57:01] <SB-X> hi Colourless
[22:57:18] <Colourless> hi
[22:57:31] <SB-X> exult forum is timing out when I try to load it in firefox
[22:57:50] <wizardrydragon> Works for me
[22:58:07] <SB-X> now it works
[22:58:10] <SB-X> no new posts
[23:00:43] <Colourless> timing out here...
[23:01:07] <Colourless> yay for sourceforge websever issues
[23:01:11] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[23:01:59] <Dominus> yeah, that's mostly normal on our forum and several other forums and homepages on sf
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[23:14:28] <wizardrydragon> It's why I chose to host the TFL site on my own server.
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[23:21:54] <Marzo> Hi
[23:22:01] <wizardrydragon> Howdy
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[23:31:21] <Marzo> wjp, Dominus: I have also been unhappy about having the Keyring's built files in CVS. I have been thinking of making some installation scripts, but I keep postponing it...
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