#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Apr 2001 (GMT)

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[03:01:27] --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
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[14:08:49] <wjp> hi all
[14:08:56] <Colourless> hi wjp
[14:09:01] * wjp is running QNX
[14:17:48] <wjp> I wonder if SDL & Exult will compile straight away :-)
[14:18:10] <Colourless> i wouldn't bet on it :)
[14:18:51] <wjp> it's pretty Unix-like, so it shouldn't be too hard... (I hope :-) )
[14:23:42] <Colourless> Perhaps Richard Garriott has a little too much money. This quote from an interview might suggest he does
[14:23:43] <Colourless> Do you actually own something that was left on the moon?
[14:23:43] <Colourless> Yes. I purchased Lunakod 21 from the Russians. I am now the world's only private owner of an object on a foreign celestial body. Though there are international treaties that say, no government shall lay claim to geography off planet earth, I am not a government. Summarily, I claim the moon in the name of Lord British!
[14:25:12] <wjp> lol
[14:49:43] <wjp> ...building SDL...
[14:52:02] <wjp> hmm... header file not found
[14:52:21] <Colourless> damn, I should have bet :)
[14:52:54] * wjp creates an empty replacement
[14:53:27] <Colourless> which file btw
[14:56:10] <wjp> SDL_ph_wm_c.h
[14:56:38] <wjp> (included from src/video/photon/SDL_ph_wm.c)
[14:56:54] <Colourless> never heard of it
[14:57:43] <wjp> hmm... any idea where our config.guess comes from?
[14:59:35] <Colourless> don't look at me about such things
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[15:02:58] <Kevadelo> Hello guys
[15:03:08] <wjp> hi
[15:03:09] --- Kevadelo is now known as TonyHoyt
[15:03:14] <Colourless> hi
[15:03:15] <TonyHoyt> Oops, forgot to change my nick.
[15:03:32] <TonyHoyt> Playing Exult in SI right now on my windows machine. Neat stuff. *Smile*
[15:05:21] * wjp is trying to compile SDL & Exult on QNX
[15:05:57] <TonyHoyt> qnx?
[15:06:27] <wjp> a 'real time platform', as they like to call it
[15:06:56] <TonyHoyt> ? I may need to see a website to understand then.
[15:07:03] <wjp> www.qnx.com
[15:08:07] <wjp> brb, rebooting to linux
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[15:10:52] <TonyHoyt> Hmm odd, I would have swarn the avatar starts with a magic sling shot after the lighting storm in SI in the very beginning.
[15:11:06] <Colourless> you're mad
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[15:11:40] <TonyHoyt> Okay perhaps I am. I just dont' have a weapon for the avatar now in the beginning of si. Again I wuold have swarn he had a sling shot.
[15:11:53] <TonyHoyt> Perhaps I should get u7run or whatever it is and check it against the two.
[15:11:59] <wjp> sling is in the hidden cave
[15:12:06] <TonyHoyt> Ahhhhhhh.
[15:12:42] <TonyHoyt> yup, your right
[15:15:17] <TonyHoyt> Odd. using a bucket on a well does strange things to the well.
[15:16:34] <wjp> hehe, yes, it does
[15:16:41] <wjp> the well disappears temporarily
[15:16:52] <wjp> and afterwards it's gone
[15:17:01] <TonyHoyt> Doh.
[15:17:27] <wjp> (well, it changed shape into the thing that's over the well (with the rope) )
[15:17:49] <TonyHoyt> Don't the pikemen that follow you into Monitor have halberds equiped? *Shrugs* Just playing. Too bad this game can't play 640x480x2
[15:18:07] <TonyHoyt> That looks odd when that happened.
[15:18:13] <wjp> ah... it just changed frame from 0 to 1
[15:18:23] <TonyHoyt> Where's that?
[15:18:58] <wjp> hmm?
[15:20:03] <TonyHoyt> Ooooooooh, what's archwizard mode?
[15:20:31] <wjp> gives you all spells, and casting spells doesn't require mana & reagents
[15:20:50] <wjp> (if you can think of a better name than 'archwizard mode', let us know ;-) )
[15:21:25] <TonyHoyt> na, sounds good. That's what I expected basicly. But when I dbl-clicked my spellbook in SI, the game crashed. :P
[15:25:34] <TonyHoyt> What kind of flocking algorith or in general follower algorithm you guys use for the companions?
[15:26:08] <Colourless> a terrible one :)
[15:26:40] <TonyHoyt> *laughs*
[15:26:56] <TonyHoyt> It could use some polishing, perhaps. But it works at least.
[15:27:11] <Colourless> it's basically just, if too far away, move to near avatar's destination.
[15:28:44] <TonyHoyt> I'm beating on a troll but he won't die! *laughs*
[15:28:50] <Colourless> i really don't like how it's done because it requires a 'hack' to work properly and that hack effect the avatars movement.
[15:28:59] <TonyHoyt> Die die die die! I almost did! down 1 one then survived, somehow.
[15:30:07] <Colourless> when I redid the avater movement code i made it update once a frame. However, this caused problems for the companions so jeff changed it to update once every 8 frames or so
[15:30:34] <Colourless> normally, this is fine except for 2 cases.
[15:30:58] <TonyHoyt> Oh wow, something actually died. Goblin. Odd. Why didn't my companion or the troll. Hmmm Wierd.
[15:31:29] <TonyHoyt> I notice some wierd things with companions sometimes.
[15:31:50] <TonyHoyt> That is they occasionaly go through some kind of skipping phase on following you. Walk, stop, walk, stop.
[15:32:17] <Colourless> case 1: You are sliding along a NS or EW wall with you mouse pointer diagonal. in the originals, and in my code at the end of the wall you will start moving diagonally. However exult will cause you to run past the end of the wall by a few tiles before updating
[15:32:59] <TonyHoyt> Couldn't you assign some kind of triangle formation and do flocking algorithm's to keep them together? using a* pathfinding?
[15:33:56] <Colourless> case 2: you are walking ns or ew and something 1 tile wide is blocking you. in the original you would just step out of the way. In exult you will step out of the way and keep going diagnoally for a few tiles
[15:34:36] <TonyHoyt> So movement is in 'clips' so to speak. You move in what could be said as wide tiles instead of little steps.
[15:36:10] <Colourless> TH: Yeah, i wanted to do that. Got sidetracked with doing SI. We are using A* but i think there is something wrong with it. I think that diagonals are being a cost of 1, which is causing odd paths to be created
[15:38:49] <Colourless> to do movement the game gives the avatar a move to tile command. When you hold down the mouse button a move to tile command is issued so you'll move about 8 tiles. WHen you release the button, a stop command is called. However, the moevement only every gets updated when you are stopped. This causes problems for detection when things are blocked
[15:40:14] <TonyHoyt> Hmmm A little confusing to me but I'll try to let it sink in. I stoped playing for now. And plus I'll be heading out soon.
[15:40:59] <Colourless> ok
[15:41:59] <TonyHoyt> I also did get the u9 music extractor. Which was a little disapointing because I expecte the music to be in a more enjoyable format then the odd way they do things now.
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[15:46:16] <TonyHoyt> Welcoem back again
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[15:46:49] <TonyHoyt> later guys
[15:46:49] <Colourless> i idn't leave
[15:46:56] <Colourless> cya
[15:47:06] <wjp> bye
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[16:09:21] <wjp> hi
[16:09:29] <Colourless> hi
[16:09:30] <Fingolfin> hiya
[16:10:08] <Fingolfin> so, exult runs under OS X- but SDL/OS X is flawed..
[16:12:31] <wjp> flawed? in what way?
[16:13:38] <Fingolfin> well
[16:14:08] <Fingolfin> the game window is opened in the background - and so far I couldn´t convince it to come to the front =]
[16:16:01] <wjp> hmm, strange
[16:17:24] <Fingolfin> well, maybe I can fix it, but for now I need to work through a stack of two weeks work that needs to be done ;)
[16:20:39] <Fingolfin> btw, I came to the conclusion that after all, maybe it was not so a good idea to do the FAQ in XML - maybe we should have used texinfo... I simply completly forgot about that - and honestly, I never used it...
[16:20:59] <Fingolfin> but texinfo might be very suitable for a FAQ - you can easily do text, html, and even pdf versions of it...
[16:21:39] <wjp> I've never used it either, but it may be a good idea
[16:22:18] <wjp> although the current way works great too
[16:23:51] <Fingolfin> but not so great for text... ah well, I don´t have time to muck around with it now anyway ;)
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[18:06:41] <wjp> hi Jeff
[18:06:47] <Colourless> hi
[18:06:50] <freedman> Hi.
[18:07:20] <freedman> Seems quiet today. That's good.
[18:07:50] <freedman> No yelling about the Alpha being broken:-)
[18:08:10] <Colourless> well you weren't around last time
[18:08:13] <wjp> :-)
[18:08:42] <freedman> True:-) I was out of the country.
[18:09:47] <freedman> There's another RG interview; pretty much the same stuff, though.
[18:10:55] <wjp> freedman: there's a bug with wells in SI. The bottom (stone) part of the well is animated instead of the top (wooden) part
[18:11:27] <freedman> Strange... Isn't that all controlled by Usecode?
[18:11:33] <wjp> yeah, it is
[18:11:37] <wjp> lots and lots of usecode
[18:11:58] <freedman> Another bug to work on...
[18:12:02] <wjp> I have usecode tracing on, and it's a huge amount of code that gets executed
[18:12:33] <freedman> SI has MUCH bigger functions than BG. Makes debugging a challenge.
[18:12:56] <freedman> I had to fix at least 3 bugs to get the Amulet working.
[18:13:40] <freedman> Is it the well in the secret cave near the start?
[18:14:03] <wjp> yup
[18:14:30] <freedman> Let me ssh into sourceforge. I've a copy of siusecode.dis there:-)
[18:15:46] <freedman> What's the hex # of the first Usecode function called (probably the bucket's)?
[18:16:23] <wjp> 032a
[18:16:58] <freedman> Thanks.
[18:17:00] <wjp> but it already takes about 300 lines of output before you get the click_on_item intrinsic call
[18:17:20] <freedman> Ugh. I may have to do this at home, then.
[18:18:39] <wjp> 032a -> 090d -> 062c -> 088c -> 088b -> 090c -> 062c -> 0889
[18:18:47] <wjp> in 889 the click_on_item() gets called
[18:19:16] <freedman> Okay...
[18:19:51] <freedman> That's the well that gets clicked on, right?
[18:19:57] <wjp> yup
[18:20:15] <wjp> after that there's about a thousand lines of output before it stops
[18:20:20] <freedman> It's checking the location on the map.
[18:22:21] <wjp> function 993 is called twice. that one takes until IP 7cd to return
[18:25:18] <freedman> That one I've seen before; gets called in other places. It seems to be returning a value based on map location.
[18:26:12] <wjp> maybe that's for determining if it's water from one of the temples?
[18:26:49] <freedman> Yes. Is that supposed to affect the fountain shape? I don't remember much about SI.
[18:27:27] <wjp> some of the temples have plain wells, others basins
[18:27:55] <freedman> Are wells ever transformed to a different shape?
[18:28:22] <Colourless> yes
[18:28:31] <wjp> I'm now at the "Well of Enthusiasm"
[18:28:35] <Colourless> actually, just a different frame
[18:28:43] <wjp> oh, during the animation, yes
[18:28:56] <wjp> the base stays the same, but the wooden frame on top is animated
[18:29:24] <freedman> Right. That's what's supposed to happen.
[18:29:56] <freedman> What's the shape # of the well?
[18:30:03] <Colourless> IIRC one or two of the basins start empty and you need to do a little challange to get the basin to fill
[18:30:16] <wjp> 470
[18:30:40] <wjp> frame 0 is the base, frames 1-7 are the top
[18:32:18] <freedman> UC 0x889 is checking for that shape...
[18:34:08] <Colourless> how about shape 714
[18:34:29] <wjp> well of enthusiasm was 714 I think
[18:34:42] <wjp> hmm... no it wasn't
[18:35:00] <wjp> that's 617
[18:35:10] <wjp> 714 is the basin
[18:35:29] <freedman> At some point, path_run_usecode is called with the UC fun that gets executed on the well after the AV gets there.
[18:36:45] <wjp> [0x94]: path_run_usecode([ 0296, 0a56, 0000 ], 01d6, 08567250, 000b) =
[18:41:35] <freedman> Thanks. There's scheduled usecode there. I bet I'm doing code 0x4d incorrectly.
[18:42:15] <freedman> I'll look at this tonight if possible, and if you haven't already fixed it:-) Got to go.
[18:42:21] <freedman> Later.
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[18:44:25] <Colourless> using a bucket on the basin with the water of discipline worked
[18:46:38] <wjp> Well of Enthusiasm too
[18:47:27] <wjp> well... it doesn't produce water of enthusiasm, but I think you had to so something for that, rightt?
[18:47:55] <Colourless> can't remember... too long ago
[18:49:21] <wjp> do you remember if the bucket of water was called something else when filled with 'special' water?
[18:51:09] <Colourless> i swear it was
[18:51:27] <Colourless> i'll just go check
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[18:52:39] <wjp> hi
[18:52:42] <Dominus> hi
[18:52:59] <Dominus> just a quick drop in to report that more animations are broken in SI
[18:53:12] <Dominus> see the bug checker for rabbit
[18:53:13] <Colourless> hi
[18:53:21] <Dominus> and I noticed the wolf as well
[18:53:39] * Dominus saw the discussion with Jeff in the logs
[18:53:40] <Colourless> the buckets of water do have different names
[18:57:13] <wjp> any idea where the names come from? they don't seem to be 'standard' shape names
[18:57:28] <Colourless> yeah, SI does something different
[18:57:35] <Colourless> lots of names seem wrong
[18:57:59] <Colourless> or at least were wrong, it seemed to get better a little while ago
[18:59:20] <Dominus> bye
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[19:00:27] <wjp> I don't see the 'special' prism names in text.flx either
[19:00:45] <Colourless> maybe it's in usecode
[19:00:51] <wjp> (not that I'm looking very well)
[19:01:32] <Colourless> it's in text.flx
[19:01:46] <Colourless> empty bucket
[19:01:47] <Colourless> bucket of water
[19:01:47] <Colourless> bucket of blood
[19:01:47] <Colourless> bucket of wine
[19:01:47] <Colourless> bucket of beer
[19:01:47] <Colourless> bucket of ale
[19:01:48] <Colourless> watering can
[19:01:50] <Colourless> brass bucket
[19:01:52] <Colourless> oilskin
[19:01:54] <Colourless> bucket of ice dragon blood
[19:01:56] <Colourless> water of emotion
[19:01:58] <Colourless> water of enthusiasm
[19:02:00] <Colourless> water of tolerance
[19:02:03] <Colourless> water of logic
[19:02:04] <Colourless> water of ethicality
[19:02:06] <Colourless> water of discipline
[19:02:09] <Colourless> worm gem
[19:02:10] <Colourless> empty soul prism
[19:02:12] <Colourless> prism of emotion
[19:02:14] <Colourless> prism of enthusiasm
[19:02:16] <Colourless> prism of tolerance
[19:02:18] <Colourless> soul prism with madnesss
[19:02:20] <Colourless> soul prism with wantoness
[19:02:22] <Colourless> soul prism with anarchy
[19:02:24] <Colourless> comb of beauty
[19:02:26] * Colourless shouldn't flood :)
[19:04:21] <wjp> those don't seem to be in the shape name section, right?
[19:04:41] <Colourless> don't think so
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[19:04:57] * wjp has to go
[19:04:58] <DraX> ok i'm linking the openbsd back now
[19:05:00] <wjp> bbl
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[19:05:22] <DraX> Colourless, can you upload the back if i pass it to you?
[19:06:34] <Colourless> yeah i could
[19:07:13] <DraX> could :)
[19:08:55] <DraX> stripped the binary is 2.4mb
[19:09:01] <DraX> this upload is gonna take me a while
[19:09:27] <Colourless> i assume that you've included the flex's
[19:09:31] <DraX> yes
[19:09:40] <DraX> i included everything make install includes
[19:10:01] <Colourless> ok good :)
[19:10:39] <DraX> 888K exult-0.92alpha3-openbsd.tar.gz
[19:10:41] <DraX> not bad at all
[19:10:49] <DraX> i did not on the other hand include SDL
[19:10:56] <DraX> because i have no plans to upload it
[19:11:13] <DraX> and it compiles out of box
[19:11:16] <DraX> so its not hard to get working
[19:12:59] <Colourless> windows version is 926k compressed and would be smaller IF it was compiled to use microsoft's libc.dll or msvcrt.dll. There isn't any point really to be distrubuting libstdc++.dll
[19:18:54] <DraX> Colourless, http://www.stampede.org/~drax/exult-0.92alpha3-openbsd.tar.gz
[19:19:47] <DraX> Colourless, i have some notes for the package
[19:20:01] <Colourless> ok
[19:20:28] <DraX> You need to upgrade ATLEAST libc_r to the libc_r included in the snapshots of openbsd 2.8-current
[19:21:19] <Colourless> ok
[19:21:34] <DraX> i'll do freebsd in a second
[19:24:20] <Colourless> i really should add sourceforge to my ftp bookmarks :)
[19:24:55] <DraX> ssh'ing to the freebsd box
[19:25:26] <Colourless> you should have just uploaded to sourceforge :)
[19:25:38] <DraX> i don't have devel access...
[19:26:04] <Colourless> don't need one. uploads are anonymous, but you need to be a dev to add it to the project
[19:26:21] <DraX> i'll do the fbsd one like that then
[19:27:23] <Colourless> i'll just get the address in a second
[19:27:35] * DraX uncompresses
[19:27:40] <DraX> this box is ALOT faster then mine
[19:27:47] <DraX> so the build well be done sooner
[19:29:31] <Colourless> put file here ftp://upload.sourceforge.net /incoming/
[19:29:43] <DraX> Colourless, is the openbsd package added yet?
[19:29:51] <Colourless> opps, remove thet space between .net and /incoming
[19:29:58] <Colourless> no
[19:30:10] <DraX> :(
[19:30:23] <Colourless> hey, i'm on a 56 k here :)
[19:30:29] <DraX> so am i :P
[19:30:44] <Colourless> you up the freebsd one
[19:30:59] <DraX> ya, the freebsd box is on a cable modem :)
[19:31:52] <DraX> unistd.h needs to be made for all xwin platforms
[19:31:56] <DraX> in gump_utils.h
[19:32:21] <Colourless> i wonder, will exult compile without that file?
[19:32:46] <DraX> on freebsd/openbsd/macosx it won't
[19:32:53] <Colourless> ah ok. :)
[19:33:08] <Colourless> the version that comes with MinGE32 is completely empty
[19:33:17] <Colourless> MinGW32
[19:33:22] <DraX> then it's fine to include
[19:34:13] <Colourless> any notes for the FreeBSD version that I need to include
[19:34:46] <DraX> Colourless, no :)
[19:35:15] <DraX> the package is built for freebsd 4.2
[19:35:24] <DraX> so just make sure a 3.x user dosen't try to run it
[19:35:30] <DraX> it should work fine on 4.0 and 4.1
[19:35:34] <DraX> and 4.3-current
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[20:03:46] <DraX> Colourless, ok, freebsd is done and uploaded
[20:04:01] <Colourless> ok
[20:04:12] <DraX> is openbsd up now?
[20:04:17] <Colourless> yes
[20:04:31] <DraX> on web also :)
[20:04:38] <Colourless> yes
[20:04:47] <DraX> awesome
[20:05:38] <DraX> i don't see it on web :(
[20:05:56] <Colourless> where are you looking?
[20:06:03] <DraX> download
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[20:06:34] <Colourless> ah ok, i haven't done that.
[20:06:44] <DraX> wjp, openbsd and freebsd are done
[20:06:47] <wjp> so I see
[20:06:49] <Colourless> it's only the source forge release page
[20:06:50] <wjp> great
[20:06:57] <wjp> Colourless: I'll do the exult webpage update
[20:07:07] <DraX> yay!
[20:07:11] <Colourless> ok.
[20:07:15] <DraX> wjp, i have some release notes for the openbsd package though
[20:07:27] <wjp> you didn't put them in a readme file in the package?
[20:07:29] <DraX> it requires you have libc_r from the snapshots of openbsd 2.8-current
[20:07:39] <DraX> wjp, no i didn't think of that
[20:08:12] <DraX> notebly the freebsd binary is quite small
[20:08:16] <DraX> 640 kbs
[20:08:31] <Colourless> does it work?
[20:08:32] <wjp> what files did you include, btw?
[20:08:44] <DraX> wjp, the data files and the binary
[20:08:59] <DraX> Colourless, i have no way to test freebsd, but it did work during the cvs
[20:09:04] <wjp> no README, FAQ, INSTALL, AUTHORS, COPYING, ChangeLog, NEWS?
[20:09:04] <DraX> Colourless, so i suspect this one works
[20:09:09] <DraX> no :(
[20:10:10] <wjp> DraX: could you write a small README.OpenBSD with the necessary libraries/updates?
[20:10:16] <Colourless> those really should be there
[20:10:20] <DraX> wjp, yes
[20:10:26] <wjp> great, thanks
[20:12:26] <DraX> freebsd dosen't need any notes
[20:12:28] <wjp> DraX: where should the 'doc' files be placed? /usr/local/doc?
[20:12:30] <DraX> it compiles and runs out of box
[20:12:58] <DraX> /usr/local/share/exult :P
[20:13:10] <DraX> www.stampede.org/~drax/README.OpenBSD
[20:15:06] <wjp> "If you uncompress the entire package, many applications will not,"
[20:15:10] <wjp> will not work?
[20:15:15] <DraX> ya
[20:15:23] <DraX> wjp, the entire base28.tgz
[20:15:25] <DraX> upgrade package
[20:15:27] <DraX> for instance
[20:15:33] <DraX> 4:14PM up 36 mins, 3 users, load averages: 0.20, 0.22, 0.18
[20:15:33] <DraX> wjp, proc size mismatch (23100 total, 720 chunks)
[20:15:36] <DraX> grr
[20:15:40] <DraX> that wjp, is w:
[20:16:07] <DraX> thats because i upgraded my whole box
[20:16:09] <DraX> to 2.8-currewnt
[20:16:15] <DraX> and sense i need X11 i didn't upgrade the kernel
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[20:19:34] <wjp> ok, I added AUTHORS, COPYING, ChangeLog, FAQ, NEWS, README, README.OpenBSD and defaultkeys.txt
[20:19:38] <wjp> did I miss anything?
[20:19:48] <DraX> wjp, thanks :)
[20:19:59] <DraX> i can fix up the freebsd one if you want
[20:20:00] <Fingolfin> lo
[20:20:06] <Colourless> hi
[20:20:45] <DraX> Fingolfin, hey
[20:21:06] <wjp> hmm... the .tar.gz grew 50 Kb
[20:21:18] <DraX> god damn
[20:21:31] <wjp> it's just a bit larger than the win32 one now
[20:21:50] <DraX> the freebsd one is still tiny
[20:21:52] <DraX> 640kb
[20:22:44] <wjp> ok, I've uploaded the package
[20:23:47] <wjp> could one of you do the rest of the release?
[20:23:59] <wjp> my ISP is in a non-cooperative mode
[20:24:19] <DraX> wjp, the freebsd pack?
[20:24:26] <wjp> no, the openbsd one
[20:24:43] <DraX> wjp, what else is there to do?
[20:24:50] <wjp> I just uploaded it to upload.sourceforge.net, but I can't get to the release page
[20:25:00] <DraX> wjp, well i can't either :P
[20:25:05] <DraX> i'm not on the devel list
[20:25:15] <wjp> (I did the packaging remotely from my univ account)
[20:25:24] <wjp> Fingolfin, Colourless: please? :-)
[20:26:35] <wjp> pretty please? ;-)
[20:27:19] <wjp> I have to go again...
[20:27:20] <wjp> bbl
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[20:27:47] <Colourless> i'll do it... again :)
[20:35:13] <Fingolfin> hu?
[20:35:14] <Fingolfin> what?
[20:35:24] <Fingolfin> ah ok, release stuff ;)
[20:35:28] <Colourless> too late now
[20:35:58] <Fingolfin> sorry, was away, finishing a cake. A cheese cake... hm, smells wonderful
[20:36:11] <Fingolfin> it needs some 30 mins more, though, before it is finished
[20:36:24] * DraX dosen't like cheesecake
[20:36:33] <Fingolfin> good, then there is more left for me ;)
[20:36:34] <Colourless> WHAT!
[20:36:46] <DraX> i never have
[20:36:52] <Fingolfin> also I don't understand how one cannot like it
[20:37:00] <DraX> cream cheese gives it that awful sour taste
[20:37:05] * Colourless considers what to do... nothing seems like a good plan
[20:37:15] <Colourless> ]done
[20:37:32] <DraX> if you made it with like clotted cream
[20:37:32] <Fingolfin> ryan: well, till you can arrive here it'll be gone anyway
[20:37:36] <DraX> then you'd have my attention
[20:37:46] <Fingolfin> cream cheese?
[20:37:54] <Colourless> the bsd releases are now on the release page for sourceforge.
[20:38:06] <DraX> Fingolfin, thats what the make it with :P
[20:38:10] <DraX> atleast here
[20:38:14] <DraX> cheesecake that is
[20:38:15] <Colourless> someone else will need to update the webpage
[20:38:37] <DraX> next release i'll remeber all the docs :)
[20:38:59] <Colourless> yeah. they are important :)
[20:39:47] <Fingolfin> drax: my problem is that I don't know the proper english term...
[20:39:58] <Fingolfin> if I knew what exactly german "Quark" means in english ;)
[20:40:21] <Fingolfin> in any case, we don't use any "cheese" for it - we use "Quark", which indeed is a milk product, but not a cheese
[20:41:02] <Fingolfin> no cream cheese, in any case - that is "Frischkäse", and is not used in our cheesecake over here
[20:41:24] <DraX> Fingolfin, well it's not really a cheese
[20:41:28] <DraX> it's a soft paste
[20:41:35] <DraX> with a slightly sour taste
[20:42:03] <Fingolfin> what exactly is "clotted cream", then?
[20:42:17] <DraX> it's a british thing
[20:42:20] <Colourless> hell if i know. never heard of it before
[20:42:28] <DraX> it's cream, thats been heavly thinckened
[20:42:49] <Fingolfin> ah, sounds like "Rahm" or "Dickmilch"
[20:43:33] * DraX runs Quark by babelfish :P
[20:44:00] <DraX> of course not
[20:44:03] <Fingolfin> anyway, cheescake is made very different in different countries... in fact, even different bakers make it different ;) e.g. the cake I make is very different from the one my aunt&my cousing make
[20:44:03] <DraX> it didn't translate it
[20:44:06] <Fingolfin> hehe
[20:44:16] <Fingolfin> I tried that already at dict.leo.org
[20:44:41] <DraX> Fingolfin, i don't know anyone in the us that dosen't make it with cream cheese
[20:44:46] <DraX> and it's heavy and sour tasting
[20:44:55] <DraX> and some times floury if it's a really bad baker
[20:44:57] <DraX> it's repulsive
[20:45:36] <Fingolfin> cheese cake I know doesn't have a sour taste at all.
[20:46:06] <DraX> i've always said people should make cheese cake with mascarpone
[20:47:06] <Fingolfin> mascarpone? isn't that an italian cheese?
[20:47:11] <DraX> ya
[20:47:22] <DraX> it's like cream cheese, except lighter
[20:47:24] <DraX> and not sour
[20:47:30] <DraX> and a little creamier
[20:49:14] <Fingolfin> hm, you know "curd" ? one dictionary here gives that, but I am not sure it is correct - "Quark" in german can also mean "nonsense" ;)
[20:49:49] <DraX> curd is a part of the cheese making proccess
[20:49:57] <DraX> do you know what cottage cheese is?
[20:50:16] <Fingolfin> then curd is the correct word!
[20:50:37] <DraX> curd is little specs of cheese really
[20:50:46] <Fingolfin> cottage cheese == "Hüttenkäse" I assume...
[20:51:07] <DraX> cottage cheese is curd and whey(the liquid from the curd)
[20:51:10] <DraX> that is thickened up
[20:51:18] <DraX> people eat it with fruit, or salt and pepper
[20:51:35] <Fingolfin> well, Quark (?=curd?) is definitly not cheese. it is also not really a prestage of it, it is derived from a prestage of cheese, but slightly different
[20:51:42] <Fingolfin> yeah
[20:51:46] <Fingolfin> that sounds exactly like it
[20:52:07] <Fingolfin> you know "junket" ?=
[20:52:09] <DraX> it's a liquid with little bits of white in it
[20:52:10] <DraX> no
[20:52:18] <Fingolfin> or "Farmer's cheese" ?
[20:52:22] <DraX> ya
[20:52:31] <DraX> farmer's cheese is REALLY broad though
[20:52:39] <Fingolfin> Quark is not really liquid - it is white soft stuff, with fluid in it ;)
[20:52:40] <DraX> like i've seen 100's of them
[20:52:42] <Fingolfin> ok ok ;)
[20:52:43] <DraX> and one of then is cottage cheese
[20:52:49] <Fingolfin> hmm
[20:52:59] <DraX> is the white soft stuff in specs?
[20:53:01] <Fingolfin> I wish I had a web cam ;)
[20:53:27] <Fingolfin> not really, it is a single mass... more or less
[20:54:13] <DraX> sounds alot like ricotta actully
[20:55:42] <DraX> riccota is basically a mass, and it has fluid in it
[20:56:13] <Fingolfin> hmm
[20:57:06] <Fingolfin> can't find that anywhere, so I have no way to confirm/deny it ;)
[20:57:39] <Fingolfin> anyway, many people like to eat quark, e.g. together with strawberries, or with corn flakes or with any other fruits or whatever
[20:57:42] <DraX> ricotta is tasteless, and is a little tiny bit chalky
[20:58:16] <Fingolfin> in how far "chalky" ? it tastes like chalk=
[20:58:35] <DraX> more grainy
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[20:59:20] <Fingolfin> hm...
[20:59:27] * Fingolfin scratches his head
[21:00:25] <Fingolfin> sort of, yeah, but not in its consistency
[21:00:37] <DraX> Fingolfin, ya, the consistency is smooth
[21:00:48] <DraX> but it has like grainy residue if you eat it with a spoon
[21:19:02] <wjp|away> my god... what _are_ you talking about? ;-)
[21:19:31] <Fingolfin> important stuff
[21:19:33] <Colourless> hehe
[21:20:05] <wjp|away> "quark" hmm... probably "kwark" in dutch
[21:20:13] <wjp|away> not a clue what it is in english though :-)
[21:21:20] <wjp|away> time to go again... see you later
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[21:22:07] <DraX> i think i'm gonna play u4 again
[21:22:55] <Fingolfin> cya
[21:23:06] <Fingolfin> hehe
[21:23:13] <Fingolfin> kwark, that could be
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[22:00:21] <Colourless> think i'll be off now
[22:00:29] <-- Colourless has left IRC (don't think... do)
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[22:08:00] <wjp> DraX: still here?
[22:15:11] <DraX> wjp, i'm leaving
[22:15:13] <DraX> whats up?
[22:15:39] <wjp> I've just added the *bsd's to the download section
[22:15:43] <DraX> awesome
[22:15:46] <wjp> any version nr.'s you want me to add?
[22:15:46] <DraX> thanks
[22:15:54] <DraX> nr.'s?
[22:15:56] <wjp> FreeBSD 4.2, OpenBSD 2.8?
[22:16:04] <DraX> OpenBSD 2.8-current :)
[22:16:16] <wjp> k
[22:16:20] <DraX> it won't work unless you update libc_r to current
[22:16:25] <wjp> I'll also add the docs to the freebsd package
[22:16:25] <DraX> and i think x11 is nwo working in current
[22:16:32] <DraX> so it's best to say current
[22:16:34] <DraX> i'm leaving
[22:16:40] <DraX> i'll porlly be back on a couple of works
[22:16:41] <wjp> k, got it
[22:16:41] <-- DraX has left IRC (bye? ..(sph))
[22:16:44] <wjp> thanks for the port!
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[23:23:41] <wjp> wb
[23:24:58] <DraX> wjp, will you make unistd.h required in gump_utils.h?
[23:25:13] <DraX> atleast 3 platforms need it
[23:25:50] <wjp> according to my copy only OpenBSD
[23:25:58] <DraX> freebsd needs it
[23:26:18] <DraX> as does os x
[23:26:43] <wjp> still a minority
[23:26:53] <DraX> well, it dosen't HURT to include it
[23:27:32] <wjp> are there any platforms that don't have it?
[23:27:41] <DraX> windows has it
[23:27:44] <DraX> linux has it
[23:27:47] <DraX> solaris has it
[23:28:01] <DraX> i don't know about beos
[23:28:47] <wjp> hmm... several files already include it by default
[23:28:53] <wjp> so I guess it won't hurt
[23:30:53] <DraX> freebsd seems to have been able to build the usecode compiler...
[23:31:47] <DraX> i could prolly get netbsd/alpha but i don't see why
[23:31:51] <wjp> ok, I just committed the change
[23:32:51] <DraX> grand
[23:48:47] <chimera|wookin> wjp!!!!!!
[23:49:17] <wjp> hi Matt!
[23:52:19] * wjp is reading Faith of the Fallen
[23:52:30] <chimera|wookin> yes! that book rules!
[23:53:53] <wjp> yeah :-)
[23:54:46] <wjp> almost finished it again, though
[23:54:50] <wjp> 100 pages left
[23:55:34] <chimera|wookin> I've thought about starting the series over again
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[23:59:41] <Kirben> Hi
[23:59:47] <chimera|wookin> KIRBEN!!!!!