#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Dec 2002 (GMT)

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[00:09:05] <Colourless> early is one way of putting it. i wouldn't be up now, if i really had a choice
[00:09:50] <Dominus> what time is it over there?
[00:10:03] <Colourless> about 10:30 (which is early for me)
[00:10:26] <Dominus> yeah, early for me, too
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[05:29:29] <ataylor> Kirben: I've just released xu4 0.09
[05:31:34] <ataylor> could you do the windows compile?
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[06:04:56] <Kirben> ok
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[06:15:37] <ShadwChsr> hi
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[08:08:21] <wjp> hi
[08:26:05] <Darke> Hi!
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[11:09:28] <Colourless> hi
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[11:11:03] <Darke> Hi.
[11:11:09] <Colourless> hi
[11:17:05] <wjp> hi
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[13:18:56] <Fingolfin> yo
[13:19:06] <Colourless> hi
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[13:26:55] <Fingolfin> a Dark Jett?
[13:27:55] <-- Darke has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[13:31:45] * Jett looks down at himself and tailflicks. "Well I tell'ya, I'm certainly not an off-white Jett anyway!"
[13:32:07] --- Jett is now known as Darke
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[13:33:13] <Fingolfin> well I was thinking about the black jet, although that's ambigious, whether it is the jewel or a F117 :-)
[13:33:22] * Darke channels the Power Of Ops and uses it to transmute Colourless' scales into a transparent pink colour.
[13:33:36] <Darke> Fingolfin: Well... yes. *grin*
[13:33:54] <Colourless> pink....
[13:34:52] <Fingolfin> Colourless: you are not looking healthy today
[13:35:26] <Colourless> i guess the problem is you can actually see me
[13:42:54] <Fingolfin> indeed
[13:43:02] <Fingolfin> all those distorted twisted... pink things
[14:06:50] * Darke really does think Colourless looks good in pink.
[14:07:09] <Colourless> i do don't i
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[14:25:31] * Darke grumbles incoherently at the modem.
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[15:02:00] * Darke wanders off for his nightly worship of The Great Z. Night!
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[16:44:16] <wjp> hi
[16:44:56] <Fingolfin> hi
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[16:56:56] <phxl> Hi
[16:57:17] <wjp> hi
[17:09:51] * phxl pokes the channel members with a stick
[17:14:45] <Fingolfin> eek
[17:14:57] * Fingolfin almost kicks phxl due to a reflex
[17:49:39] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[17:49:40] <phxl> :o
[18:05:13] <wjp> b
[18:26:17] <phxl> !!!
[18:28:31] <wjp> ?
[18:29:20] <phxl> !
[18:29:42] <wjp> !?
[18:31:59] <phxl>
[18:46:30] <Fingolfin> como?
[18:47:07] <wjp> hm, this version of xchat has some serious difficulty with unprintable characters
[18:47:37] <wjp> it stops painting a line when it reaches a nonprintable char
[18:47:53] <wjp> (effectively showing the desktop background or whatever happens to be under xchat)
[18:48:30] <wjp> the #scummvm topic has been bugging me for days because of a 0xA0 char in there
[18:50:07] <phxl> come sta?
[18:50:41] <phxl> I've tried XChat, but I never really got used to it
[18:50:43] <wjp> hm, 0xBF is an upside-down question mark in your charset?
[18:50:57] <phxl> I used the ASCII code :o
[18:51:20] * phxl is on Trillian at the moment
[18:51:22] <wjp> 0xBF isn't ASCII, is it?
[18:51:29] <phxl> don't ask me O:
[18:51:39] <Fingolfin> wjp: I sent an upside-down ?, and I received one from phxl, too.
[18:51:41] <phxl> www.asciitable.com
[18:51:50] <phxl>
[18:51:54] <phxl> alt+168
[18:52:05] * Fingolfin just types Alt- to get it, Shift- is question mark on my KB
[18:52:11] <wjp> hm, xchat is supposed to be in iso8859-15 currently
[18:52:20] <wjp> but it seems to only have 0x00-0x7F
[18:52:31] <phxl> omg, another German :o
[18:52:37] <phxl>
[18:52:45] <phxl> qwertzuiop+
[18:52:50] <phxl> quertz 4 eva!
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[18:53:16] <phxl> \
[18:53:26] <wjp> could you try some >0x7F chars again?
[18:53:33] <phxl> alt+ doesn't work for me, unfortunately
[18:53:47] <wjp> hm, guess iso8859-1 doesn't work either
[18:54:09] <phxl>
[18:54:29] * wjp tweaks some more settings
[18:54:38] <wjp> seems to be working now
[18:54:47] <phxl> Trillian's IRC client isn't too great, but it gets the job done
[18:55:10] * wjp tries an
[18:55:22] <phxl>
[18:55:28] <wjp> yay :-)
[18:57:05] <Fingolfin> works :-)
[18:57:17] <Fingolfin> But can you also do this:
[18:57:48] <wjp> that's an inverse ! here
[18:57:52] <Fingolfin> yeah
[18:58:11] <wjp> oh, could you do a euro?
[18:58:15] <phxl>
[18:58:17] <phxl> hmm
[18:58:18] <phxl>
[18:58:38] <phxl> = alt+173
[18:59:08] <phxl> soy un hacker!
[19:01:32] <Fingolfin>
[19:01:34] <Fingolfin> Alt-E here
[19:02:03] <phxl> Fingolfin: what kind of keyboard are you using? I never managed to get a out of a German keyboard
[19:02:17] <phxl> \
[19:02:22] <Fingolfin> Well it obviously depends on your keyboard layout
[19:02:22] <phxl> ?\
[19:02:29] <phxl> weird
[19:02:33] <wjp> ugh, those euros aren't euros here
[19:02:59] <phxl> Mozilla has problems displaying extended ASCII characters sometimes
[19:03:51] <phxl> <-- what the heck is this, anyway?
[19:04:03] <wjp> it's something used as a logical not
[19:04:11] <phxl> I think it's shift+^ on British keyboards
[19:04:27] <wjp> although I've never seen it outside of theoretical CS texts
[19:05:38] <phxl> http://proofing.com/support/Word6Win/Manual/englshuk.gif <-- hmm, looks like I was close
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[19:25:47] <phxl> does exultbot do anything?
[19:28:55] <exultbot> not very often
[19:29:03] <phxl> D:
[19:29:19] <phxl> exultbot: what's the meaning of life?
[19:29:36] <exultbot> life? what's that?
[19:30:23] <phxl> exultbod: plz don't evade my question kthx
[19:32:11] <exultbot> How would I know the meaning of life? I'm just some perl code
[19:32:34] <phxl> exultbot: fair enough
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[21:45:53] <phxl> :o
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[23:18:29] <matt|os_X> any Mac users here?
[23:18:48] * wjp pokes Fingolfin
[23:18:56] <matt|os_X> I'm on a Mac!! hehe
[23:18:58] <matt|os_X> where is Fingolfin!
[23:19:01] * Fingolfin hides
[23:19:20] <matt|os_X> fin!!!!
[23:19:23] <wjp> oh, it would seem Fingolfin isn't here after all :-)
[23:19:30] <matt|os_X> hey... :)
[23:19:42] <matt|os_X> so I'm finally using this OS X thing ... it looks pretty cool
[23:19:57] <matt|os_X> any idea how I can get sshd up and running (and gcc/g++ installed) ?
[23:20:08] <wjp> gcc: get the devtools from apple
[23:20:17] * matt|os_X swallows nervously
[23:20:38] <Fingolfin> connect.apple.com
[23:20:47] <Fingolfin> if you bought OS X, the dev tool CD should be included, though
[23:21:04] <Fingolfin> although they just released a new version of the dev tools with many fixes I am told (didn't install those myself yet)
[23:21:06] <Fingolfin> and sshd, well...
[23:21:09] <Fingolfin> that one is very hard
[23:21:27] <Fingolfin> go to the system preferences, and "Sharing", and click the checkbox next to "remote login"
[23:21:28] <wjp> Fingolfin: any idea if that would include the fstream bug fix?
[23:21:30] <Fingolfin> 8-)
[23:21:58] <matt|os_X> I'm not sure where we got OS X from... hehe
[23:22:05] <Fingolfin> wjp: dunno, but I'd rather doubt it, my bug report is still open (AFAICT it is still open and unchecked, in fact :-/). But as soon as I get those new tools installed I'll try
[23:22:10] <Fingolfin> matt|os_X: ahh :-)
[23:22:20] <wjp> Fingolfin: sheesh, and that for a trivially reproducable bug
[23:22:23] <Fingolfin> matt|os_X: well if your net connection is fast enough, download the dev tools, a couple 100MB
[23:22:42] <Fingolfin> wjp: indeed, and a bug I included a pinpoint location in the source and a possible bug fix with... hrmpf
[23:23:25] <Fingolfin> matt|os_X: found the SSH stuff? the sharing panel is also where you enable the web server, SMB (windows) sharing, printer sharing, FTP server etc.
[23:23:47] <wjp> maybe you should get some other osx developers to submit a bug report too :-)
[23:23:56] <wjp> a couple of thousand would do the trick I guess :-)
[23:23:58] <matt|os_X> yay sharing! :)
[23:24:20] <wjp> Fingolfin: say, does osx have a default root password?
[23:24:30] <matt|os_X> wjp: that's what I was wondering heh heh
[23:24:31] * wjp points ssh client at matt|os_X's machine :-)
[23:24:33] <Fingolfin> no, root account is disabled by default
[23:24:36] <matt|os_X> ok I found the dev tool CD
[23:25:03] <Fingolfin> matt|os_X: if you are using 10.2 (I hope you are...) make sure it is a 10.2 dev tool cd
[23:25:19] <matt|os_X> it appears to be
[23:25:29] <Fingolfin> matt|os_X: to find out your system version, look at the Apple menu, "ABout this mac", or type "sw_vers" in Terminal.app
[23:25:30] <Fingolfin> ok
[23:25:35] <Fingolfin> fine fine :-)
[23:26:06] <matt|os_X> ProductName: Mac OS X
[23:26:17] <matt|os_X> ProductVersion: 10.2.2
[23:27:35] <Fingolfin> Chatzilla? you are using Chatzilla? OMG :-)
[23:28:14] <matt|os_X> ya.. chatzilla.. what of it? hehehe
[23:28:36] <matt|os_X> I got sshd working, thx
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[23:29:09] <wjpzilla> what a weird client
[23:29:36] <Fingolfin> matt|os_X: did you try out Chimera (gecko based web browser)
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[23:30:09] <wjp> based on my extensive 10-second exposure to chatzilla I think I like xchat better ;-)
[23:30:21] <Fingolfin> hehe
[23:30:24] <matt|os_X> dang, I need the user's password to install this dang package
[23:30:34] <Fingolfin> good that you did a thourough testing, wjp :-)
[23:30:56] <wjp> yes, I wouldn't want to say I didn't like it without any proper reason :-)
[23:33:22] <Fingolfin> <g>
[23:33:53] <matt|os_X> Fingolfin: how is one s upposed to pull up an xterm? I had to go to 'help' to get it hehe
[23:34:12] <Fingolfin> "pull up an xterm" ?
[23:34:21] <Fingolfin> you mean open a terminal window?
[23:34:26] <Fingolfin> or do you want to run X11 apps?
[23:34:49] <matt|os_X> ya.. a terminal window
[23:34:53] <Fingolfin> Terminal.app sits in the Utilities folder in the Applications folder. I have it as a permanent item in my dock
[23:35:11] <matt|os_X> ya, it found its way into the dock here as well hehe ...
[23:35:19] <Fingolfin> and if you want additional windows, go to File->New Shell Window (or what it is in the english version), or press Cmd-N
[23:35:43] <Fingolfin> BTW if you want to find out where on the HD a given item in the dock is, Cmd-Click it, and it'll open it in a new finder window
[23:36:09] <Fingolfin> (well there are two exceptions to this: won't work for the Finder, nor the Trash :-)
[23:37:14] <matt|os_X> gcc seems to be installed :)
[23:38:19] <matt|os_X> when you say Cmd... d you mean the Apple key?
[23:40:19] <Fingolfin> yeah
[23:40:25] <matt|os_X> hmm ...
[23:43:47] <matt|os_X> how does one uninstall stuff?
[23:44:23] <matt|os_X> I think that is my final newbie FAQ for the evening :)
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[23:45:10] <matt|os_X> dark star!!!!
[23:45:26] <Dark-Star> matt|os_X !!!
[23:45:27] <matt|os_X> wjp: hehe you didn't like chatzilla, eh?
[23:45:59] <matt|os_X> I don't care for it myself, but it came with Mozilla (which I downloaded and installed)
[23:46:43] <matt|os_X> it has nice anti aliased fonts
[23:47:48] <Fingolfin> what do you want to uninstall, matt|os_X?
[23:47:57] <matt|os_X> like mozilla, for example
[23:48:11] <matt|os_X> it came as a self-installing file... I was just wondering how to uninstall it if I needed to
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[23:51:21] <Fingolfin> in the case of most apps, you install them by copying the app to the HD, and you deinstall them by deleting the app from the HD
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[23:52:22] <matto|mac> whoops
[23:52:28] <matto|mac> sorry about that
[23:52:58] <wjp> apps are fully self-contained? nice
[23:53:08] <Fingolfin> we shall forgive our humble servent one last time, matto|mac
[23:53:31] <matto|mac> did you say something during my absence? :(
[23:53:39] <Fingolfin> wjp: well, normally. I fear that Mozilla may not be as well behaved, so if you want to get fully rid of it, you may have to delete ~/Library/Applications Support/Mozilla or so
[23:53:45] * Fingolfin didn't use Mozilla for quite some time
[23:53:48] <Fingolfin> [0:51 Uhr] <Fingolfin> in the case of most apps, you install them by copying the app to the HD, and you deinstall them by deleting the app from the HD
[23:53:55] <matto|mac> ahh
[23:54:22] <matto|mac> do you use Internet Exploder as your browser then?
[23:54:39] <wjp> uh oh.. I'm tempted to use multiple inheritance here
[23:54:56] <wjp> but it might actually be a valid reason
[23:55:05] * wjp ponders
[23:55:06] <matto|mac> I've done that before, wjp
[23:55:35] * Fingolfin uses Chimera
[23:55:41] <wjp> there's a Usecode class, that provides usecode functions to the UsecodeMachine
[23:55:43] <matto|mac> ahh I've heard of that
[23:55:49] <matto|mac> lightweight mozilla-derived browser, yes?
[23:55:54] <wjp> then there's a Flex class, that reads data from a .flx file
[23:56:01] <wjp> and now I want to have a UsecodeFlex :-)
[23:56:05] <wjp> matto|mac: yes
[23:56:17] <matto|mac> maybe I should install that thing on here too :)
[23:56:44] <wjp> you'd need a new irc client then, too
[23:56:51] <matto|mac> hehe
[23:57:16] <matto|mac> well I won't actally be usiing this machine except via SSH
[23:57:24] <wjp> has irssi been ported to osx?
[23:57:28] <matto|mac> it is used by one of our graphic artists here at work
[23:57:46] <matto|mac> so I figured I'd get SSH and G++ setup on it so I could tinker arond with a mac port of DAPHNE
[23:57:57] <matto|mac> I got it ported to Solaris, so a Mac port would be trivial
[23:58:00] <matto|mac> well.. kind of trivial
[23:58:09] <matto|mac> there are no endian issues, let's put it that way
[23:58:13] <Fingolfin> matto|mac: chimera is nice, I am using a nightly build from yesterday
[23:58:19] <Fingolfin> irssi works on OS X yes
[23:58:23] <Fingolfin> matto|mac, check out fink.sf.net
[23:58:44] <matto|mac> fink :)
[23:58:46] <Fingolfin> matto|mac: if daphne uses only SDL and no X11 specific stuff it should probably port fine
[23:58:56] <matto|mac> it doesn't use any X11 stuff at all
[23:58:58] <matto|mac> it's mostly SDL
[23:59:10] * Fingolfin sees that he still has a daphne checkout
[23:59:14] <matto|mac> with a few architecture-specific routines for the serial/parallel port schlop
[23:59:26] <Fingolfin> serial/parellel? uhm
[23:59:40] <matto|mac> ya.. that would most likely be #ifdef'd out for a Mac port
[23:59:52] <Fingolfin> that's what I did here
[23:59:52] <matto|mac> using the serial/parallel port is optional to be sure...