#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Feb 2004 (GMT)

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[00:09:32] <servus> has all the newest bits. Newest rifle, newest sword, etc. *wanders off*
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[01:28:42] <Baastuul> Hullo.
[01:28:51] <servus> Wishstone?
[01:29:07] <Baastuul> ?
[01:31:13] <servus> Just checking, you silly namechanging dragonette
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[01:48:23] <Baastuul> ...Namechanging dragonette? :)
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[03:13:05] <servus> wjp: You do realize that you are using the long smooth pants for the shorts, right? Art was made specifically for the shorts brown pants :-)
[03:16:19] <servus> I like how Erethian is a programmer :-)
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[04:06:03] <servus> Hmm, can't get midi to work in Exult, though it works in kmidi...
[04:08:27] <Baastuul> What's kmidi?
[04:08:34] <servus> A MIDI player for KDE.
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[04:43:19] <servus> You seem to be very bunnyhoppish for Darke not even being here, Baastuul
[04:44:25] <Baastuul> I'm on a lousy dial-up connection, servus.
[04:44:27] <Baastuul> No broadband here.
[04:44:39] <Baastuul> So basically, my connections end on their own whenever they want.
[04:44:47] <Baastuul> The longest connections I can get are for exactly 4 hours and 8 seconds.
[04:44:48] <Baastuul> Then they just die.
[04:44:56] <servus> That is incredibly cool
[04:45:04] <Baastuul> Yeah. ><
[04:45:06] <servus> It's like a computer pet in your modem
[04:46:51] <Baastuul> I live out in the boonies.
[04:47:06] <Baastuul> It's pretty sad out here. The only broadband out here is satellite.
[04:47:14] <Baastuul> And some areas are getting some WiFi connections.
[04:48:30] <Baastuul> In fact, the only place I've ever used a broadband connection at is at my school.
[04:48:47] <servus> I grew up like that, so I understand
[04:48:57] <servus> Only had 14k modem forever :)
[04:49:07] <Baastuul> Heheh.
[04:49:13] <Baastuul> I actually started out on a 14.4K modem in our 486.
[04:49:26] <Baastuul> Though that's not really technically the first computer I used.
[04:49:39] <Baastuul> I think I actually remember the very first moment I used a computer.
[04:50:07] <Baastuul> It was at some office my dad was it, a military officer guy let me tinker with his laptop. He had Microsoft Word open I think, I typed gibberish and ended up messing things up when I hit the F- keys.
[04:57:13] <servus> I started on a 300 baud...
[04:57:35] <servus> You didn't use computers til the time of MS Word? :-O
[04:57:57] <servus> 'sides, my first computers didn't even have modems
[04:59:48] <Baastuul> Well, I'm 17.
[04:59:52] <Baastuul> I was about 3 at the time.
[04:59:57] <Baastuul> And it was probably another program.
[05:00:01] <Baastuul> I just remember a word processor.
[05:01:15] <servus> 17? What was the first Ultima you played?
[05:04:14] <servus> Baastuul: See my final musket and custom sword? :-)
[05:05:55] <Baastuul> Sadly it was 8. Then I played 7 and 6 and became obsessed. I've since played them all.
[05:06:01] <Baastuul> Link please? :)
[05:07:03] <Baastuul> 1993-1995 about is when I started to get into computer gaming. A friend of ours had Ultima 8 and we got obsessed with just messing around in the game world. We had no personal biases at first because we knew nothing about Britannia and all that, then the same friend who let us borrow U8 lent us U7.
[05:07:23] <Baastuul> I forget who lent us U6, though.
[05:08:09] <servus> Mmm, Ultima 8
[05:08:13] <servus> Do you have the GIMP?
[05:08:23] <Baastuul> Not anymore
[05:08:24] <servus> I really liked Ultima 8. I've beat it thrice and bought it twice
[05:08:32] <servus> OK, I'll make you a png but you can't see it all!
[05:08:42] <Baastuul> 'K.
[05:08:57] <Baastuul> Most people disliked Ultima 8. I thought it was pretty fun. Tough, but fun.
[05:09:16] <Baastuul> I need to play it through one of these days. I'm not sure if I'll be able to figure out how to get it to run properly on WinXP though.
[05:11:03] <servus> and
[05:11:08] <servus> You never beat it?
[05:11:12] <servus> It runs on XP
[05:11:20] <servus> I have a patch for you to make it run on XP if you'd like...
[05:11:49] <Baastuul> Nah. I've seen the ending once or twice, I used to watch my brother play a lot. I mainly just tinkered around in the game world.
[05:12:13] <Baastuul> Musket looks good, but the picture shows up pretty tiny
[05:12:30] <servus> Zoom it up with that XP image viewer thing :)
[05:12:50] <Baastuul> It reads it as a quicktime movie for some reason, heh
[05:12:55] <Baastuul> Let me download through a manager
[05:13:48] <servus> Quicktime registers itself to view pngs.
[05:13:59] <Baastuul> Yeah.. I got it to look through the pic viewer
[05:14:06] <Baastuul> One thing
[05:14:18] <Baastuul> If you look at the angle of the musket when it is on your back
[05:14:22] <Baastuul> Rather, the avatar's back
[05:14:35] <Baastuul> And if you follow that same angle with the entire length of the musket
[05:14:39] <Baastuul> It sort of "disappears"
[05:14:40] <Baastuul> Get what I mean?
[05:14:48] <servus> Yes but...
[05:16:00] <Baastuul> Or actually, maybe it doesn't... It's hard to say :)
[05:16:02] <servus> It would barely appear on the backside of ze avatar.
[05:16:10] <servus> By his left hip
[05:16:30] <servus> I don't know if wjp wants that. He hasn't downloaded the newest version anyways
[05:16:31] <Baastuul> Yeah, it's good how it is. Maybe if you could, would the musket look a bit better with more brown on top? Like how it looks when it's just in the game world.
[05:16:32] <servus> I guess I can add it
[05:17:03] <Baastuul> I see you've got the leather collar graphic in there
[05:17:05] <servus> "on top"? You mean the band of wood on the bottom of the barrel?
[05:17:09] <servus> Heh, so I do
[05:17:17] <Baastuul> good man :D
[05:17:21] <servus> WJP wanted "less than a pixel"
[05:17:25] * servus flogs Baastuul again
[05:17:26] <Baastuul> Ah ok
[05:17:35] <servus> So there you go, a half-pixel wide line
[05:17:37] <Baastuul> Well, no.. Hang on, let me take a better gander
[05:18:14] <Baastuul> http://baastuul.digital-focus.us/web/compendium/weapons/musket.gif
[05:18:26] <Baastuul> Okay, yeah, it'd be more the bottom
[05:18:29] <Baastuul> But I'm just nitpicking
[05:19:54] <servus> This is the sort of stuff that makes men avoid getting married ;)
[05:19:58] * servus smiles
[05:20:03] <Baastuul> heheh
[05:20:14] <Baastuul> And with the sword, I'm assuming the pommel will be 'neath his hand there?
[05:24:38] <servus> Yes
[05:24:46] <Baastuul> 'k
[05:25:02] <Baastuul> They're looking good, keep up the good work
[05:25:32] <Baastuul> Do you by any chance know if regular clothing in the game adds to defense at all?
[05:25:35] <servus> Reload u7musket.png
[05:25:40] <Baastuul> Or if they're just there for aesthetics?
[05:25:45] <servus> I'm rather sure it's just for looks
[05:25:46] <Baastuul> ok
[05:25:55] <servus> Whoops, forgot to crop
[05:26:46] <Baastuul> What kind of pants is the lady wearing?
[05:26:59] <servus> Wool
[05:29:51] <Baastuul> Lemmie take a look through IrfanView
[05:29:57] <Baastuul> It zooms much better
[05:30:00] <Baastuul> doesn't get blurry
[05:30:08] <servus> Sounds scary, like you're dis'ecting my work.
[05:31:00] <Baastuul> Looks good
[05:31:31] <Baastuul> However, the tip is a bit too squared off. If you want, you could maybe make it a bit more steep, like the upright-in-the-hand musket's
[05:31:40] <Baastuul> Hehe, sorry if my critiquing is annoying
[05:32:53] <servus> Try now.
[05:33:33] <Baastuul> Muy bien!
[05:33:42] <servus> I deleted one(1) pixel.
[05:33:54] <servus> At least that's easy. Deleting half a pixel is harder.
[05:34:46] <Baastuul> How long have you been doing this kind of stuff?
[05:35:16] <servus> Oh I started yesterday.
[05:35:40] <Baastuul> You do all of your work in GIMP?
[05:36:00] <servus> That was a joke, and only recently do I use the GIMP (it has several annoying quirks). I usually use Photoshop.
[05:36:19] <Baastuul> Same here. I've been using Photoshop 5.0 for years now. ;)
[05:36:27] <servus> I stick with 6.
[05:36:37] <servus> Or is it 7?
[05:36:41] <Baastuul> Dunno. Heheh
[05:36:50] <servus> The one before the CS edition. I don't look at version numbers when I start programs
[05:36:52] <Baastuul> My brother just got this off of some warez FTP in like 1998 or something
[05:37:08] <Baastuul> And I've been using it since for most of my sites
[05:37:17] <servus> Uh huh... *calls the feds*
[05:37:45] <Baastuul> Alright! 3 square meals and a cozy bed AND boyfriend!
[05:38:16] <Baastuul> ...I mean, uh.. I got nothing.
[05:38:20] <servus> You'd go to jail for a boyfriend?
[05:38:35] <servus> Wouldn't it be a girlfriend, anyway?
[05:38:44] <Baastuul> Hehe
[05:39:01] <Baastuul> You think I'm a girl or something? :P
[05:39:12] <servus> I am so confused
[05:39:19] <servus> Aren't you Wishstone?
[05:39:25] <Baastuul> No
[05:39:51] <Baastuul> [17:28:31] <Baastuul> Hullo.
[05:39:52] <Baastuul> [17:28:41] <servus> Wishstone?
[05:39:52] <Baastuul> [17:28:57] <Baastuul> ?
[05:39:52] <Baastuul> [17:31:04] <servus> Just checking, you silly namechanging dragonette
[05:39:57] <Baastuul> That's what the question mark was there for. ;)
[05:40:10] <servus> Yes, as if you were responding to me calling your name =-/
[05:40:23] <servus> "Bob: Joe?" "Joe: Yeah?"
[05:40:45] <Baastuul> Oh, hehe. Well, I just didn't know what you meant by "Wishstone". Didn't know if it was a person or not.
[05:40:50] <Baastuul> I only started coming here yesterday.
[05:41:02] <servus> OK, you have been realiased to 'unknown person #323214235', nice to meet you
[05:41:09] <Baastuul> Hello!
[05:44:56] <Baastuul> So, uhh... who is Wishstone?
[05:45:39] <servus> ?log
[05:45:39] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[05:45:59] <Baastuul> Thicks.
[05:47:31] <Baastuul> Anyway, I gotta get going
[05:47:32] <servus> Hmm?
[05:47:33] <servus> Bye
[05:47:36] <Baastuul> Thicks = thx
[05:47:51] <Baastuul> And thx of course, equals thanks
[05:48:07] <Baastuul> I've just never pronounced "thanks" when I see "thx", I always say "thix" or "thicks"
[05:48:07] <Baastuul> heh
[05:48:09] <Baastuul> Okay, I'm out
[05:48:10] <Baastuul> Night
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[09:55:36] <Dominus> servus: are you there?
[09:56:12] <servus> Yepyep
[09:56:24] <Dominus> I just looked at your musket
[09:56:44] <servus> What do you want me to change about it? ;)
[09:57:02] <Dominus> there is one odd thing, normally such weapons are worn on the back with the barrel showing up
[09:57:33] <servus> Hasn't ANYONE here seen Army of Darkness?
[09:57:43] <servus> Let's take a vote, :P
[09:57:44] <Dominus> only those sawed off barrel things you sometimes see the other way round
[09:58:12] <servus> Pleh, I'll make another version and you guys can vote before wjp wakes up to implement
[09:58:14] <Dominus> you cannot "draw" a normal sized musket like this that way
[09:59:26] <servus> Huh?
[09:59:42] <servus> Well if you want it barrel-up, do you think it should be tilted?
[10:00:24] <Dominus> what do you mean by tilted?
[10:00:55] <servus> Ehh, tilted as in not parallel with the spine
[10:01:30] <Dominus> <Dominus> you cannot "draw" a normal sized musket like this that way -> I didn't mean like drawing a picture but like "who draws faster"
[10:01:49] <Dominus> tilted -> only a bit
[10:03:49] <servus> Oh
[10:03:59] <servus> Well that depends on how you have it strapped
[10:04:07] <servus> I would prefer it to be butt-up
[10:04:12] <Dominus> yup
[10:04:21] <servus> That way you can do a forward swinging motion if you have it strapped over your right shoulder and fire right away
[10:04:36] <servus> Reaching under and behind is much more comfortable than reaching over your shoulder.
[10:04:51] <Dominus> "normal" people just carry them the other way round
[10:04:59] <Dominus> mostly as a safety precaution
[10:05:07] <Dominus> you don't want to shoot your own foot
[10:05:27] <servus> Butt-up slung over the shoulder means you can ready your musket in a firing position quicker. Modern rifles are much shorter and therefore easier to maneuver though
[10:05:29] <Dominus> (I'd known, my family is made up of hunters
[10:05:46] <servus> And they shoot themselves? ;)
[10:06:18] <Dominus> thing about a musket is that in real life you have to take it down, feed the bullet to the powder to the barrel then the bullet and so on, and only then you can fire
[10:07:06] <Dominus> and it's not as if the Avatar first has to get rid of his hand-weapon(s) anyway
[10:08:27] <servus> There, paperdolls.xcf has both versions now
[10:08:44] <servus> wjp will use whichever :P
[10:08:46] <Dominus> <servus> And they shoot themselves? -> no, but there have been accidently discharges (in a car and the shot went right throgh the seat above my sister's shoulder)
[10:09:42] <servus> Checking for bullets? :O
[10:10:17] <Dominus> about your butt up picture, it also looks odd as the butt is so high up. the butt is very heavy and is not possible to be so high
[10:10:39] <Dominus> <servus> Checking for bullets? -> nope, it just discharged on its own...
[10:10:41] <servus> These musket barrels are made of cast iron
[10:11:45] <Dominus> still looks odd
[10:13:00] <servus> There I even lowered the butt-up musket, ya big whingah :-)
[10:14:51] <Dominus> :-)
[10:14:56] <Dominus> can I look?
[10:15:02] <servus> If you have GIMP
[10:15:03] <servus> Do you?
[10:15:32] <Dominus> nope :-(
[10:15:34] <Dominus> not anymore
[10:15:48] <Dominus> I'm waiting for the windows 2.0 version to be finished
[10:16:27] <servus>
[10:17:59] <Dominus> hmm, the butt down one would need to be the other way round, with the trigger pointing to the floor and not up
[10:19:10] <servus> The trigger is pointing to the floor
[10:19:26] <servus> Notice the trigger-side of the butt is curviest and compare it to the one on his back
[10:19:40] <servus> Oh
[10:19:46] <servus> Well who cares, jeeeez :P
[10:20:02] <Dominus> :-)
[10:20:12] <Dominus> the curvy part does point up :-)
[10:24:09] <servus> There, one more try...
[10:24:54] <servus> Reloading
[10:24:59] <servus> s/Reloading/Reload.
[10:25:01] <Dominus> better :-)
[10:28:08] <servus> That's all I get, a 'better'. Y'never said it was any good to begin with :-p
[10:29:59] * servus smirks
[10:30:13] <Dominus> oh
[10:30:22] <Dominus> I like it, it looks good
[10:30:30] <Dominus> also the pants
[10:30:42] <Dominus> have not yet looked at the hoods but will do so later
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[12:14:59] <wjp> hi
[12:21:55] <Dominus> hi
[12:41:31] <wjp> looks like the u6edit SF project was approved after all
[12:44:41] <Dominus> nice
[12:45:35] <wjp> project is totally empty currently, but that'll probably change soon :-)
[12:45:59] <wjp> group id 100888... kind of a nice number :-)
[12:47:21] <wjp> hm, now that you mention it... the musket does look more 'right' with the barrel pointing up
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[13:15:04] <Colourless> HI
[13:15:12] <Colourless> damn caps lock
[13:15:18] <wjp> hi :-)
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[13:24:29] <Colourless> gu!
[13:24:38] <WishStone> Huhu everyone... *falls into her chair*
[13:25:49] <wjp> gu? jo!
[13:27:05] <Colourless> Iu! Qgt tiy kurrke!
[13:27:44] * wjp ;ppld ommpvrmy
[13:28:11] * WishStone slaps her translating unit+
[13:28:17] <WishStone> Damn, I joined an arabian channel
[13:28:33] <Colourless> no, you joined a bored programmer channel
[13:28:35] <wjp> what we're saying makes perfect sense :-)
[13:29:03] <wjp> and it's normal english, too :-)
[13:29:34] <Colourless> qho: tiy EW BIR Sejw
[13:29:48] * Colourless thinks that one will be interesting to translate
[13:30:48] <wjp> not too hard, though :-)
[13:31:14] <wjp> um, I mean
[13:31:43] <wjp> mpy ypp jstf yjpihj "=_
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[13:33:42] <Colourless> u qibswe qgwb rgw irgwea qukk fwr ewLLT bbitws qurg ya~
[13:34:17] <WishStone> problem with this is...
[13:34:19] <Colourless> a.ewLLT.ewKKT.
[13:34:46] <WishStone> to me, that sentance woulda been "mpz zpp jstf zjpihj"
[13:35:05] <WishStone> And I don't wanna think about FRENCH keyboards here...
[13:35:53] <Colourless> hey, this is an english speaking channel.... we assume US keyboards :-)
[13:36:21] <Colourless> even though wjp is from the Netherlands, he still has a US keyboard :-)
[13:36:23] <WishStone> And what about Brits? Aussies?
[13:36:39] * Colourless sees a US keyboard infront of him
[13:36:47] <WishStone> Nerds :P
[13:37:02] * wjp never saw a dutch keyboard
[13:37:10] <wjp> although they apparently do exist
[13:39:23] <Colourless> there is no reason for australia to have a regionalized keyboard. Our currency is the Australian $
[13:39:29] <Colourless> and we speak english
[13:39:58] <WishStone> Rebels ;]
[13:41:47] <Colourless> And now our currency isn't quite so crap as it once was, or more specifically, the $US has gone to hell. $1 AU is now worth $0.79 US, where a year ago it would have been about $0.65US
[13:43:55] <Colourless> if you said someone 2 years ago that the AUD would be worth $0.80 US they seriously would have laughed at you :-)
[13:45:09] <Colourless> in the past few years we even hit as low as $0.49US
[13:45:59] * WishStone goes into hiding for a while...
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[13:53:30] <Colourless> so, the news is Windows NT/2K source code has stolen
[13:54:18] <Colourless> i'm guessing our AFJ about the exult source code being stolen would be 'perfect' this year :-)
[13:58:44] <Dominus> he he
[13:59:23] <Dominus> perhaps they can now do a "native" implementation of NTFS for Linux :-)
[14:00:18] <Colourless> yeah and perhaps they will go to, quoting the movie office space, Federal "pound you in the ass" prison :-)
[14:00:54] <Colourless> there are thing you can touch, and there are things that you should not
[14:01:04] <Colourless> touching microsoft source code would have to be a really realyl dumb idea
[14:01:06] <Dominus> I know
[14:27:54] <Dominus> LOL - in a German Forum about that: "Well maybe now developers can have a look and report security flaws to MS." "And get sued because of having the leaked source in the progress!"
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[16:18:54] <Dominus> wb
[16:19:04] <Colourless> thx
[16:29:15] <wjp> a savegame is now submitted for the temple-of-discipline crash
[16:29:22] <wjp> crashes for me too from that savegame
[16:29:55] <wjp> in Chunk_cache::activate_eggs
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[16:33:53] <Dominus> gotta go
[16:33:56] <Dominus> bye
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[16:34:57] <wjp> ok, I think I see the problem
[16:35:18] <wjp> I really don't like that "return; // A teleport could have deleted us!"...
[16:35:30] <wjp> but adding that check to the second loop in there prevents the crash
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[16:56:13] <WishStone> Hm!
[16:56:19] <WishStone> I come, Colourless poofs...
[16:57:18] <wjp> well, you walked in, which caused the IRC server to send some data to Colourless, at which point it probably found out that Colourless had already been gone for a while
[16:57:47] <wjp> (disconnected without the IRC server noticing)
[16:58:16] <WishStone> I KILLED COLOURLESS!!! *CRIES!*
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[17:16:38] <WishStone> Weeee, he came back!
[17:16:52] <Colourless> i didn't know i was gone
[17:17:02] <WishStone> [18:04] *** Colourless (Cless@ppp679.adelaide.on.net.au) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:17:02] <WishStone> [18:04] <WishStone> Hm!
[17:17:02] <WishStone> [18:04] <WishStone> I come, Colourless poofs...
[17:17:02] <WishStone> [18:05] <wjp> well, you walked in, which caused the IRC server to send some data to Colourless, at which point it probably found out that Colourless had already been gone for a while
[17:17:02] <WishStone> [18:05] <wjp> (disconnected without the IRC server noticing)
[17:17:04] <WishStone> [18:06] <WishStone> I KILLED COLOURLESS!!! *CRIES!*
[17:17:07] <WishStone> [18:25] <WishStone> [18:05] <wjp> well, you walked in, which caused the IRC server to send some data to Colourless, at which point it probably found out that Colourless had already been gone for a while
[17:17:19] <WishStone> [18:05] <wjp> (disconnected without the IRC server noticing)
[17:17:19] <WishStone> [18:06] <WishStone> I KILLED COLOURLESS!!! *CRIES!*
[17:17:39] <wjp> WishStone: we have online logs, no need to repeat things :-)
[17:17:42] <wjp> ?log
[17:17:42] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[17:19:06] * WishStone glares at exultbot
[17:19:15] * WishStone cries again
[17:19:18] <WishStone> I'm so useless!
[17:19:19] <WishStone> :P
[17:36:25] * WishStone made a big pot of hot choclate, anyone want some?
[17:36:37] <Colourless> hell no
[17:36:38] <WishStone> I can offer it with a dash of coffee or cream liquor ;]
[17:36:44] <wjp> not really, no :-)
[17:36:58] * WishStone shrugs and pours some cream liquor in hers
[17:37:02] <Colourless> if you were here, you'd be saying 'hell no' too
[17:37:12] <wjp> how hot is it?
[17:37:16] <Colourless> tonight is far from what you would call even remotely cool
[17:38:57] <Colourless> http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDS65012.shtml
[17:39:02] <Colourless> i am closest to Kent Town
[17:39:49] <Colourless> yes, at 4am it's 33.8C
[17:40:26] <wjp> "not even remotely cool" sounds like an understatement :-)
[17:43:33] <Colourless> today is going to be an extreme example of bad weather though. Starting this warm though is bad
[17:44:10] <Colourless> quite possibly the worst day as far as fire danger goes in about 20 years
[17:46:23] <Colourless> http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDS10069.txt
[17:49:38] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[18:22:25] <wjp> back
[18:24:44] --> Ranger has joined #Exult
[18:24:51] <Ranger> hmhmhmmm
[18:25:06] <-- WishStone has left IRC (Nick collision from services.)
[18:25:09] --- Ranger is now known as WishStone
[18:26:27] <WishStone> Anyone where with a great love for the current President of the US of A?
[18:27:06] * Colourless doesn't expect any replys
[18:27:24] <WishStone> oh goodie ;] http://www.bushisms.com/
[18:27:49] <WishStone> I can't say I hate him or anything, but he gives me the creeps and I never know were the good man is standing.
[18:28:14] <Colourless> I think he's an idiot. But that's kind of statment of fact
[18:28:34] <WishStone> idiot as in asshole or idiot as in dumb?
[18:28:50] <Colourless> :-)
[18:31:08] --> Ranger has joined #Exult
[18:31:30] <-- WishStone has left IRC (Nick collision from services.)
[18:31:32] <Ranger> hmmmmpf
[18:31:36] --- Ranger is now known as WishStone
[19:22:47] --> artaxerxes has joined #exult
[19:22:47] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to artaxerxes
[19:22:50] <artaxerxes> hi all
[19:23:28] <artaxerxes> I'm gonna get beaten to death, but I have a little question with c++ which totally mess up with my head.
[19:23:47] <artaxerxes> (please remember I'm a newbie with c++)
[19:24:30] <artaxerxes> I've created a class, class Llist, and I've declared a variable, "head" to be a pointer of that class. so that I have:
[19:24:36] <artaxerxes> Llist *head;
[19:25:09] <artaxerxes> I can call some public methods, but I know the creator was not called because it is supposed to output stuff when it is called.
[19:25:34] <-- WishStone has left IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[19:25:36] <artaxerxes> how can I have an object of a certain class and call its methods if it wasn't created before?
[19:26:05] <artaxerxes> If I do head = new(Llist); it will call the creator.
[19:26:20] <artaxerxes> brb
[19:28:32] <artaxerxes> b
[19:28:43] <Colourless> uh, what are you trying to do?
[19:29:35] <Colourless> you really shouldn't attempt to call an object's methods if it's not yet constructed
[19:31:04] <artaxerxes> that's why it is weird. But I kinda based my code on exult's.
[19:31:15] <artaxerxes> More specifically args.cc, args.h and exult.cc
[19:31:30] <artaxerxes> (except Args is not called as a pointer)
[19:31:55] <artaxerxes> My objective is to learn a bit more c++
[19:32:05] <artaxerxes> so my main is like that:
[19:32:09] <artaxerxes> int main(int argc, char **argv){
[19:32:09] <artaxerxes> Llist *head;
[19:32:09] <artaxerxes> std::cout << "head is at " << head << std::endl;
[19:32:09] <artaxerxes> head = new(Llist);
[19:32:09] <artaxerxes> std::cout << "head is now at " << head << std::endl;
[19:32:11] <artaxerxes> head->create_list();
[19:32:14] <artaxerxes> delete(head);
[19:32:16] <artaxerxes> return(0);
[19:32:19] <artaxerxes> }
[19:32:27] <artaxerxes> llist.h is like that:
[19:32:28] <artaxerxes> class Llist {
[19:32:29] <artaxerxes> public:
[19:32:29] <artaxerxes> Llist();
[19:32:29] <artaxerxes> ~Llist();
[19:32:31] <artaxerxes> void create_list();
[19:32:33] <artaxerxes> private:
[19:32:36] <artaxerxes> class Llist * next;
[19:32:38] <artaxerxes> };
[19:32:41] <artaxerxes> llist.cc is like that:
[19:32:43] <artaxerxes> #include "common.h"
[19:32:46] <artaxerxes> #include "llist.h"
[19:32:49] <artaxerxes> Llist::Llist(){
[19:32:51] <artaxerxes> std::cout << "created list" << std::endl;
[19:32:54] <artaxerxes> }
[19:32:56] <artaxerxes> Llist::~Llist(){
[19:32:59] <artaxerxes> std::cout << "destroyed list" << std::endl;
[19:33:01] <artaxerxes> }
[19:33:04] <artaxerxes> void Llist::create_list(){
[19:33:06] <artaxerxes> std::cout << "create_list called" << std::endl;
[19:33:09] <artaxerxes> }
[19:33:12] <artaxerxes> and I compile with: g++ llist.cc main.cc -o test
[19:37:21] <artaxerxes> Colourless: you say I should call an object's methods if it wasn't created, but that's what you do in args.cc
[19:37:52] <artaxerxes> correction: in exult.cc
[19:38:04] <artaxerxes> Line 249
[19:39:49] <artaxerxes> maybe because it's not a pointer.
[19:40:38] <artaxerxes> must be that, because if I replace Llist *head by Llist head, then the creator and the destructor get called.
[19:40:55] <artaxerxes> weird business that is, for sure.
[19:41:11] <wjp> it's not that weird :-)
[19:41:32] <artaxerxes> is that in connection with "an instance" and "a declaration" of an object?
[19:41:54] <wjp> well, if you do "Llist* head;", you don't actually declare an object
[19:41:58] <wjp> just a pointer
[19:42:27] <artaxerxes> then how come can I call a method of that object?
[19:42:43] <wjp> which object? you don't have an object yet
[19:43:09] <artaxerxes> yet I can call head->create_list(). It does print out what I expect.
[19:43:53] <wjp> the code for the methods isn't "tied" to the object
[19:44:08] <Colourless> unless it's virtual :-)
[19:44:16] <artaxerxes> mama mia....
[19:44:19] <wjp> Colourless: don't complicate things :-)
[19:44:44] <wjp> artaxerxes: basically you can compare "head->create_list();" with "create_list(head);"
[19:44:58] <wjp> it knows how to call which function even if you pass it an invalid value
[19:45:30] <wjp> you'd be able to see things break if you gave the class some member variables
[19:46:25] <artaxerxes> so I have to declare the object and instantiate it, right?
[19:46:36] <artaxerxes> sth like:
[19:46:41] <artaxerxes> Llist* head;
[19:46:47] <artaxerxes> head = new(Llist);
[19:46:52] <wjp> you can't declare an object without constructing it
[19:47:16] <wjp> "Llist* head" doesn't declare an object; it declares a pointer
[19:47:50] <artaxerxes> that pointer is lost when I do "head = new(Llist)" though
[19:48:14] <artaxerxes> I see that when I used the "std::cout" calls
[19:48:27] <Colourless> the initial state of a pointer is undefined!
[19:48:31] <artaxerxes> [aurelien@tor-web-997 c++]$ ./test
[19:48:31] <artaxerxes> head is at 0x4022e340
[19:48:31] <artaxerxes> created list
[19:48:31] <artaxerxes> head is now at 0x8049f80
[19:48:34] <artaxerxes> create_list called
[19:48:36] <artaxerxes> destroyed list
[19:48:50] <wjp> yes, after "LList* head;", head contains a bogus/random/undefined value
[19:48:59] <wjp> using it in any way is a bug
[19:49:04] <artaxerxes> ahhh
[19:49:09] <artaxerxes> I think I understand.
[19:49:14] <wjp> just like after saying "int x;", you don't know what x contains
[19:49:29] <artaxerxes> so technically, I could do:
[19:49:36] <artaxerxes> Llist * head = new(Llist);
[19:49:51] <Colourless> yes
[19:49:51] <wjp> why "technically"?
[19:49:57] <wjp> that's perfectly valid, and used in many places
[19:50:07] <artaxerxes> wjp: because I've never seen it written like this!
[19:50:09] <Colourless> but if you are doing that, why can't you just do:
[19:50:11] <Colourless> Llist head
[19:50:13] <Colourless> ;
[19:50:26] <wjp> Colourless: I can think of several reasons :-)
[19:50:28] <artaxerxes> because I want to make a linked list.
[19:50:56] <wjp> (most likely because you want the object to outlive the current 'scope')
[19:51:26] <artaxerxes> I tell you, this c++ business is killing me.
[19:51:53] <Colourless> pointers aren't really a C++ thing.... they come from C :-)
[19:51:54] <wjp> this is nothing you couldn't also do using plain C :-)
[19:52:28] <artaxerxes> true, but I wanted to convert "smooth" to c++, I want to kinda "grow-up" in my programming skills... ;-)
[19:53:00] <Colourless> a pointer in C++ is the same as a pointer in C
[19:53:23] <Colourless> instead of using malloc and free, you now use new, and delete
[19:53:32] <artaxerxes> but in C, I couldn't do Llist *head; head->create_list() and get something out of it.
[19:53:49] <artaxerxes> it would barf and die.
[19:53:55] <wjp> C doens't have member functions at all
[19:53:59] <wjp> s/ns/sn/
[19:54:49] <Colourless> if you were using a function pointer in a struct then yeah, it would die because head points to nothing
[19:55:07] <Colourless> a member function is NOT the same as a function pointer
[19:55:18] <artaxerxes> ah?
[19:55:32] <Colourless> void Llist::create_list()
[19:55:39] <Colourless> would be equiv of
[19:55:53] <Colourless> void Llist_create_list(Llist *this)
[19:56:09] <Colourless> doing a call such as
[19:56:15] <Colourless> head->create_list()
[19:56:24] <Colourless> would be the equiv of doing
[19:56:31] <artaxerxes> Llist_create_list(head)
[19:56:33] <Colourless> Llist_create_list(this)
[19:56:38] <artaxerxes> oh sorry.
[19:56:38] <Colourless> s/this/head/
[19:56:43] <artaxerxes> ah, ok.
[19:57:19] <artaxerxes> I think I'm getting it,
[19:57:30] <artaxerxes> jsut another point:
[19:57:46] <artaxerxes> why do I have to say "std::cout" instead if "cout"
[19:57:54] <Colourless> because of namespaces
[19:58:13] <wjp> you can group function/variables in a thing called a namespace
[19:58:22] <wjp> cout, cerr, endl, etc... are in the 'std' namespace
[19:58:44] <artaxerxes> so I should do an #include to get that namespace in?
[19:58:51] <wjp> no
[19:58:54] <artaxerxes> or import that namespace?
[19:58:59] <Colourless> no
[19:59:11] <wjp> you don't "import" a namespace
[19:59:11] <artaxerxes> or make that namespace current?
[19:59:19] <artaxerxes> (or local?)
[19:59:22] <Colourless> no
[19:59:27] <Colourless> you just 'use' it
[19:59:40] <Colourless> std::cout means use cout from the std namespace
[20:00:24] <artaxerxes> but I've seen c++ code where they don't put "std::cout", but instead "cout" directly.
[20:00:40] * servus . o O ( If you call a method on an uninstantiated object, then you are passing garbage values to the 'this' variable (ecx register, usually). If you try to use an object member in that method you call, it will try to dereference what is essentially a null pointer (the 'this' pointer) )
[20:00:41] <wjp> either that was old C++ code, or they had a "using std::cout;" or "using namespace std;" somewhere
[20:01:48] <Colourless> servus: isn't always a null pointer though, depending on the compiler you can have who knows what garbage from the stack being your pointer. Sometimes it will even seemingly succeeed
[20:02:00] <artaxerxes> ok, then why in exult.cc you have "using std::cout" and somewhere in the code "std::cout" instead of "cout"
[20:03:03] <servus> I know, Colourless: It is essentially the same thing though
[20:03:15] <servus> A garbage pointer is no better than a null pointer.
[20:03:32] <Colourless> because std::cout will always mean use cout from the std namespace
[20:03:53] <Colourless> doing "using std::cout" will allow you to just use cout without having to always put the std:: before it
[20:04:28] <Colourless> it's purely a thing for code readability
[20:04:38] <artaxerxes> ok
[20:04:53] <servus> std::cout << this->name; or just std::cout << name; with name being an object member will dereference a garbage pointer if you haven't instantiated the object first
[20:05:15] <artaxerxes> well, I appreciate your input guys. I've still got a long way to go to reach your levels.
[20:05:35] <Colourless> namespaces will really be one of the more confusing things :-)
[20:06:18] <artaxerxes> so, "Llist * head" declares head of being of pointer to Llist type and "head = new(Llist)" instantiates it, right?
[20:07:42] <Colourless> you should use head = new Llist;
[20:07:59] <servus> 'new' creates memory space for a new object, calls the constructor if necessary, and returns a pointer to that newly created memory
[20:08:01] <artaxerxes> ok. I'll do that. What is the difference ?
[20:09:14] <wjp> is new(Llist) valid syntax?
[20:09:15] <Colourless> firstly new(Llist) might confuse some compilers, and secondly it's just not the correct way of doing things. If you want to use a non default constructor (by passing args) you need to do head = new Llist(args);
[20:09:18] <wjp> never saw it
[20:09:20] <artaxerxes> servus: so you don't have to have a constructor and a destructor?
[20:09:46] <artaxerxes> Colourless: it makes sense.
[20:09:54] <wjp> if you don't specify a constructor or a destructor you'll get default ones
[20:10:05] <artaxerxes> I was actually wondeing how I could pass values when calling the constructor.
[20:10:28] <servus> artaxerxes: Primitive types don't have constructors
[20:10:46] <Colourless> wjp: don't confuse him with saying it is possible to have non default destructors :-)
[20:10:47] <servus> That's what I meant :). foo = new int;
[20:10:58] <artaxerxes> should I call "delete head" or "delete(head)"?
[20:11:08] <Colourless> delete head;
[20:11:36] <artaxerxes> g++ accepted both "new(Llist)" and "delete(head)". ;/
[20:12:02] <Colourless> who said g++ was 100% standards complient?
[20:12:15] <artaxerxes> absolutely no one.
[20:12:17] <Colourless> g++ accepts alot of stuff it shouldn't
[20:12:38] <Colourless> wjp and I found one such instance in pentagram a few weeks back
[20:12:45] <artaxerxes> please tell me more, so I could avoid them
[20:12:50] <servus> Umm, ow.
[20:12:55] <servus> I just got told off
[20:13:16] <artaxerxes> with g++?
[20:13:38] <artaxerxes> maybe I should compile with -Wall
[20:13:42] <servus> I'm looking for a senior project (has to be a real business in the community), and I got a lead. I called them up and asked if I could speak about it and she practically snarled a NO! We don't need ANYTHING! And hung up.
[20:14:36] <artaxerxes> nice!
[20:15:00] <Colourless> btw, what version of gcc are you using?
[20:15:21] <artaxerxes> gcc version 3.2 (Mandrake Linux 9.0 3.2-1mdk)
[20:15:59] <Colourless> ok
[20:16:01] <artaxerxes> (result from g++ -v)
[20:16:21] <artaxerxes> even with -Wall, I get no barfing at all during compile
[20:16:38] <Colourless> something you will 'really' like is when including c standard library headers, you shouldn't use
[20:16:52] <Colourless> #include <stdio.h>
[20:16:55] <Colourless> instead you should use
[20:17:00] <Colourless> #include <cstdio>
[20:17:19] <wjp> related: when including C++ standard headers, you shouldn't use
[20:17:21] <wjp> #include <iostream.h>
[20:17:23] <wjp> but rather
[20:17:27] <wjp> #include <iostream>
[20:17:36] --> WishStone has joined #Exult
[20:17:45] <Colourless> you will then have to use std:: infront of all your c standard library calls
[20:17:47] <artaxerxes> wjp: for some reason, I remembered reading that somewhere and that's what I've done.
[20:18:16] <artaxerxes> Colourless: like std::strcmp(.........)
[20:18:25] <Colourless> yes
[20:18:57] <servus> Hi WishStone
[20:18:58] <artaxerxes> wjp: but for local includes, I've left the .h at the end, e.g: #include "common.h"
[20:19:05] * WishStone hides
[20:19:16] * servus prods WishStone with a musket
[20:19:27] <Colourless> artaxerxes: yes since your files are named common.h and so on
[20:19:48] <artaxerxes> so far so good!
[20:20:05] <servus> wjp: Everyone had their two cents to add about the musket, so it kept getting changed and getting changed. It is now bright pink and 1 pixel wide
[20:20:32] * WishStone won't say anything about any graphics elements anymore
[20:20:52] <artaxerxes> now, for something totally different:
[20:20:53] <servus> WishStone: It's ok, I'm joking, I like the input,. honest :-P
[20:21:02] <wjp> servus: yeah, I read the logs :-)
[20:21:24] <artaxerxes> I am considering replacing the flat text config file for "smooth" into a XML-like file.
[20:21:43] <artaxerxes> It is technically possible to use exult's XML loading and parsing in my code?
[20:21:56] <wjp> servus: do you have the latest .xcf online?
[20:22:05] <servus> Yep, but lemme doublecheck
[20:22:27] <servus> I've started editing directly out of my var/www/... with all the editing
[20:22:44] <wjp> artaxerxes: random related note: in pentagram we were just about to abandon exult's xml-ish format
[20:23:03] <artaxerxes> wjp: any reason in particular?
[20:23:28] <wjp> too confusing for users who don't know xml
[20:23:42] <servus> Yep, newest online
[20:23:43] <artaxerxes> what would you replace it with?
[20:23:44] <wjp> and also confusing for people who know xml too well, since it isn't "real" xml :-)
[20:24:05] <wjp> servus: which url?
[20:24:08] <artaxerxes> it's just missing the <!DOCTYPE> at the front to be "real XML", right?
[20:24:15] <wjp> or the filename would be enough, I guess
[20:24:28] <Colourless> no, it's missing more than that :-)
[20:24:34] * WishStone rolls her eyes at yet another worm she recived
[20:24:44] <Colourless> problems are in the parser
[20:25:01] * artaxerxes ia aghast. I didn't WishStone was a girl
[20:25:17] <servus> wjp:
[20:25:27] <WishStone> What did you think, I'm a gay dude with a poncy nick? :P
[20:25:29] <servus> WishStone may just be having a pronoun crisis
[20:25:29] <artaxerxes> that's cool! Exult needs more girl onboard
[20:26:22] <Colourless> well, when Darke, aka Patrick Burke, comes in as Ember, he role play's a female character :-)
[20:26:29] <WishStone> every UDIC can see I'm a girl... well, everyone really who bothers to check up on the UDIC roster ;D
[20:26:40] <servus> Isn't burke a naughty word? Nah, that's Berk :P
[20:27:43] <WishStone> *heh* When I role play I'm useually
[20:27:44] --- WishStone is now known as An_Old_Ranger
[20:27:45] <An_Old_Ranger> ;]
[20:27:47] --- An_Old_Ranger is now known as WishStone
[20:27:58] <wjp> an_old_male_ranger? :-)
[20:28:04] <WishStone> Yepps :P
[20:28:23] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:28:40] <artaxerxes> I like the custom sword... The musket is another story... ;-)
[20:28:44] <servus> Ehh I don't see a roster
[20:28:48] <servus> Not without joining myself
[20:28:52] * servus bonks artaxerxes
[20:28:57] <artaxerxes> and I _love_ the short pants on the female avatar! it's awesome
[20:29:21] * artaxerxes is bonkd
[20:29:27] <wjp> oh right, short pants
[20:29:27] <artaxerxes> bonked, even.
[20:29:38] <wjp> I used the wrong pants, didn't I?
[20:29:41] <servus> Yeah wjp, you did :P
[20:29:52] <servus> You used long pant paperdolls for short pants in-game-gumps
[20:30:20] <wjp> I ran out of in-game pants before I ran out of paperdoll pants :-)
[20:30:22] <servus> I didn't even expect you to use the long smooth pants, but for one of the items you associated with them, it worked well
[20:30:22] <artaxerxes> the short pants are like, Let's go to the beach!
[20:30:39] <servus> Well there are long paperdoll pants associated with short in-game pants is all :P
[20:31:04] <servus> I've got to go
[20:31:22] <artaxerxes> see ya
[20:31:25] <wjp> bye
[20:31:53] <artaxerxes> as a matter of fact, I should be returning to work too.
[20:32:01] <artaxerxes> see ya later all! Enjoy the weekend
[20:32:15] <Colourless> yes artaxerxes, continue working on exult
[20:32:26] <artaxerxes> thx for the help!
[20:32:28] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:32:35] <artaxerxes> I meant the _other_ work! ;-)
[20:32:38] <servus> . o O ( Exultima Online )
[20:32:38] <wjp> good luck with your adventures in C++ :-)
[20:32:45] <artaxerxes> thx
[20:32:47] <artaxerxes> bye
[20:32:51] * wjp will go shorten some pants
[20:32:53] <-- artaxerxes has left #exult ()
[20:42:16] <Colourless> i'm off
[20:42:17] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[20:51:33] --- WishStone is now known as WishStone|away
[22:16:39] --> t12 has joined #exult
[22:16:47] <t12> helu again
[22:16:49] <t12> anyone about?
[22:16:51] <wjp> hi
[22:18:20] <t12> helo again
[22:18:51] <t12> i'm getting a repeatable crash in serpent isle
[22:19:04] <t12> i imgine its graphics related because of SDL parachute deployed message?
[22:19:23] <wjp> not necessarily
[22:19:32] <wjp> SDL 'deploys a parachute' on any crash
[22:19:37] <t12> ah
[22:19:49] <t12> would it be easier to send you a savegame then to describe the problem? :)
[22:20:11] <wjp> first describe it, maybe I recognize it
[22:20:24] <t12> in the temple of order?
[22:20:29] <t12> theres a button on a pillar
[22:20:37] <t12> click button, explosion sound, earthquake, crash
[22:20:40] <wjp> which version of exult are you running on which OS, btw?
[22:20:50] <wjp> hm, no, that doesn't sound familiar
[22:20:59] <t12> bash-2.05b$ exult --version
[22:20:59] <t12> Exult version 1.1.9rc1
[22:20:59] <t12> Built at: Feb 5 2004 09:41:16
[22:20:59] <t12> Compile-time options: HAVE_TIMIDITY_BIN, USE_EXULTSTUDIO, HAVE_ZIP_SUPPORT
[22:20:59] <t12> Compiler: gcc, version: 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106
[22:21:21] <wjp> savegame would be nice, yes :-)
[22:21:26] <t12> ok, sec
[22:21:41] <t12> are savegame filenames in order of slots?
[22:21:46] <t12> ie: is savegame00 the quicksave?
[22:21:52] <t12> er, exult00si.sav
[22:21:55] <wjp> the filename is listed in the information box
[22:22:05] <wjp> quicksave isn't a file
[22:22:18] <wjp> (not a single file, that is)
[22:23:40] <t12> http://www.bloomcounty.org/~t12/exult08si.sav
[22:24:05] <wjp> k, let's have a look
[22:24:09] <t12> neet
[22:24:10] <t12> thanx
[22:24:57] * wjp watches exult blow itself up
[22:25:38] * wjp hmms
[22:26:35] <t12> crashes for you also?
[22:26:45] <wjp> gdb is acting up again... I wonder if this would be a good time to upgrade to 6.0
[22:26:51] <wjp> yes, it crashes here too
[22:27:14] <wjp> but it claims it crashes at line 271 of a file that has 106 lines :-)
[22:27:34] <t12> heh
[22:28:00] <wjp> in a function that isn't even anywhere near that file
[22:29:14] <wjp> but it looks like it's trying to set the cursor to something invalid somewhere
[22:30:24] --> WishStone has joined #Exult
[22:33:37] * wjp hmms
[22:33:44] <WishStone> hmmm?
[22:33:56] * WishStone goes peek into what makes wjp hmmm
[22:34:28] <wjp> things that make me go hmm?
[22:34:37] <WishStone> *heheh* Wasn't that "uuh"? ;D
[22:34:47] <-- WishStone|away has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:34:58] * wjp pokes and prods exult
[22:35:16] * WishStone pulls up a chair and watches wjp poke and prod exult
[22:35:17] <WishStone> Bug?
[22:35:53] <wjp> yes
[22:36:10] <WishStone> eew, what?
[22:36:41] <wjp> crash... some part of exult thinks an NPC is in combat mode while another part thinks that it isn't :-)
[22:36:51] <wjp> that's having all sorts of interesting effects :-)
[22:37:07] <WishStone> ..oopsie :D
[22:41:30] * wjp is tempted to let Jeff handle this bug :-)
[22:41:57] <WishStone> ....eer... Okay, different Jeff I assume, not Fangorn Dragon? ;]
[22:42:10] <wjp> yes, different Jeff :-)
[22:42:26] <wjp> (although I also wouldn't mind if Fangorn wants to fix this bug :-) )
[22:42:36] <wjp> Jeff = DrCode on the forum
[22:43:07] <WishStone> Ah, the one coding porn games? *chuckles*
[22:43:16] <wjp> heh :-)
[22:55:03] <t12> theres another case of that nearby
[22:55:05] * wjp ahhs
[22:55:16] <wjp> the npc in question is actually dead
[22:55:40] <WishStone> *LOL*
[22:55:44] <wjp> no wonder his schedule is garbage... he's not supposed to be doing much :-)
[22:57:30] * wjp blinks
[22:57:33] <wjp> it's Palos
[22:57:58] <wjp> isn't that the gargoyle that's walking towards you when you press the button?
[22:58:37] <wjp> interesting...
[22:59:55] * wjp hits self
[23:00:34] <wjp> or rather whoever put the check if the npc is dead _after_ the check if he's trying to attack you :-)
[23:01:15] <WishStone> *confused now* :P
[23:01:32] <wjp> the code did in fact check if the NPC was dead
[23:01:48] <wjp> but it only did that after doing what made it crash
[23:01:57] <WishStone> *LOL* Well, there you go ;D
[23:02:21] <wjp> t12: workaround: don't move the mouse while Palos approaches, talks to you and walks away
[23:03:09] <wjp> an actual fix will be in CVS in a few minutes
[23:03:18] <wjp> t12: thanks for catching this :-)
[23:03:50] <t12> hah
[23:03:52] <t12> thats a funny fix
[23:03:52] <t12> ok
[23:03:53] <t12> np :)
[23:03:58] <t12> it worked in the other case i found too
[23:04:14] <wjp> then it was most likely the same bug
[23:04:49] * wjp is still rather confused about Palos being dead while he walks towards you
[23:05:13] <t12> i havent cheated any
[23:05:13] <t12> heh
[23:05:20] <t12> though i'm sure i did some storyline stuff out of order
[23:05:31] <wjp> ah, yes, you did
[23:05:37] <t12> maybe its cause i already killed batlin
[23:05:38] <wjp> you've already been to the wall of lights
[23:05:40] <t12> yeah
[23:05:49] <wjp> how did you get there without going past Palos?
[23:05:56] <t12> serpent teeth
[23:06:19] <t12> dunno where i got that one though...
[23:06:20] <t12> heh
[23:06:23] <t12> brb sec
[23:09:55] <wjp> strange
[23:15:08] <t12> also oddly
[23:15:10] <t12> once i do that
[23:15:14] <t12> they dont stay and fight
[23:15:18] <t12> they just talk and disappear
[23:15:34] <wjp> palos and the other henchmen?
[23:16:54] <t12> yeah
[23:17:01] <t12> the ones it would have crashed with
[23:17:10] <t12> when i fought selena, it was just her and some cyclopses
[23:17:11] <wjp> I'm not sure if they're supposed to fight
[23:17:18] <wjp> oh, there
[23:17:47] <wjp> hm, I would guess they're not teleported there until after they tried to lure you into traps
[23:18:46] <t12> i wonder if they're there again
[23:18:49] <t12> oh heres a question
[23:18:53] <t12> how can you locate a given item ?
[23:19:09] <wjp> hm, that wouldn't be easy
[23:19:19] <wjp> any particular item?
[23:19:37] <t12> a specific one
[23:19:46] <t12> i think i forgot gwennos body somewhere :
[23:19:47] <t12> :)
[23:20:02] <wjp> that's impressive :-)
[23:20:09] <t12> heh
[23:20:23] <t12> somehow i've never managed to play u7/u72 in order
[23:22:28] <t12> can you create an object like that?
[23:22:35] <wjp> bodies are somewhat special
[23:22:59] <WishStone> I'd say.
[23:25:13] <t12> i guess i can searcxh
[23:25:22] <t12> i left the corpse somewhere i'd 'remember'
[23:28:43] <wjp> I might be able to find it in your savegame
[23:29:54] <wjp> Stefano's house
[23:29:58] <wjp> (Moonshade)
[23:30:32] <t12> yup
[23:30:32] <t12> found
[23:30:58] <t12> you know, somehow i never got the hang of the u8/uo interface
[23:31:04] <t12> i always liked 7's better
[23:32:35] <wjp> in which way?
[23:34:35] <t12> i dont really know how to quantify it. maybe i'm just more used to it
[23:35:18] * wjp phews; the musket art is in now
[23:45:30] <WishStone> *heh*
[23:48:42] <t12> heh
[23:48:44] <t12> further problems :(
[23:48:51] <t12> Should teleport to (1797, 630)
[23:48:51] <t12> Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
[23:49:16] <wjp> the "should teleport" isn't an error
[23:49:58] <t12> this is in walking up the stairs from the acid in the shrine of disciple (i think thats what its called)
[23:50:17] <wjp> oh, I fixed that one earlier this evening
[23:50:19] <t12> i can produce another save if you'd like
[23:50:57] <wjp> no workaround for this other than cheating, as far as I know
[23:51:23] <t12> whats the bug?
[23:52:23] <wjp> hm, it teleported away while looping over some items in the area and didn't stop looping after the teleport
[23:52:38] <wjp> (even though the relevant items were gone)
[23:52:51] <t12> the cheat would just be to teleport out?
[23:53:01] <wjp> it's a two-line patch if you want to recompile exult
[23:53:31] <wjp> or you can send me your savegame, I can walk up the stairs, and I'll send it back :-)
[23:54:46] <t12> http://www.bloomcounty.org/~t12/exult09si.sav
[23:54:59] <t12> er
[23:55:03] <t12> yeah.
[23:56:36] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exult201si.sav
[23:56:49] <t12> 201? :)
[23:57:01] <wjp> that's just an empty spot... they go up to 320 :-)
[23:57:23] <t12> hehe