#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[00:13:41] <servus> Great. Got mountain alignment 100% figured out.
[00:14:22] <servus> Gonna need to make a low-level change to how chunks are rendered with tiles. I can't deal with these bright blue squares so I'm going to replace them with the next non-blue tile I can find in the chunk.
[00:23:37] <servus> Should I keep snow on top of the absurdly small mountains?
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[00:54:43] <kozebamze> Hello. I am trying to remove the bird sounds from Ultima VII: Black Gate. They are annoying because the music stops looping when the bird begins to whistle..
[00:55:12] <kozebamze> I don't want any sfx
[00:55:36] <kozebamze> the game is kind of boring without the music
[00:56:09] <kozebamze> where is everybody?
[00:56:39] <kozebamze> I don't know where the files are located
[00:57:37] <kozebamze> nevermind
[00:58:33] <servus> I have to say though, I like how the mountains are looking
[00:58:41] <servus> kozebamze, #define COLOURLESS_HATES_THE_BG_SFX
[00:59:19] <servus> Sorry, #define COLOURLESS_REALLY_HATES_THE_BG_SFX
[00:59:33] <kozebamze> hehe
[00:59:46] <servus> So if you're compiling it on Linux/gcc, add /DCOLOURLESS_REALLY_HATES_THE_BG_SFX to the compile line.
[01:00:11] <kozebamze> I'm not using Linux
[01:00:19] <kozebamze> hehe
[01:00:26] <kozebamze> you're just joking
[01:00:42] <servus> No.
[01:00:45] <servus> What are you on/
[01:00:53] <kozebamze> Windows XP..
[01:01:10] <servus> Hmm, I thought it was the default to have that defined. Did you compile it yourself?
[01:01:25] <kozebamze> Yes, I think so.
[01:02:20] <servus> You'd know if you compiled it yourself :-p I think that the Windows binaries have that already #defined, so other than that, you'll have to ask someone else, like jwp.
[01:02:21] <servus> wjp*
[01:02:42] <kozebamze> ok :D
[01:02:57] <kozebamze> what is he doing?
[01:03:03] <kozebamze> is wjp a busy man?
[01:05:16] <kozebamze> are the sfx files located in the Ultima VII/static/ folder?
[01:06:12] <kozebamze> u7voice.flx
[01:06:29] <kozebamze> hmm
[01:06:59] <kozebamze> I think I found it
[01:07:11] <servus> This is IRC. You can't expect prompt responses. However, there is a:
[01:07:12] <servus> ?log
[01:07:12] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[01:07:13] <kozebamze> ADLIBSFX.DAT
[01:07:26] <kozebamze> logs
[01:08:47] <kozebamze> omg
[01:09:02] <kozebamze> it takes forever
[01:09:29] <kozebamze> goodbye
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[01:09:34] <servus> I'm only actively here because I'm actively working on the project.
[01:09:39] <servus> Errph. Alright.
[01:16:41] <servus> Anyway, mountains are looking great I think :-D
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[01:58:12] <kozebamze> damn.. the Ogg encoded music files won't loop
[01:58:51] <kozebamze> FMSynth loops though..
[01:59:55] <kozebamze> servus: are you still there?
[02:00:15] <kozebamze> omg.. I'm going crazy
[02:01:48] <kozebamze> The Exult3D Project looks very promising
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[02:02:10] <kozebamze> I wish I could contribute with something
[02:02:17] <kozebamze> hi Baastuul! :D
[02:02:35] <kozebamze> Baastuul?
[02:02:42] <Baastuul_> Hi!
[02:02:46] <kozebamze> :D
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[02:02:54] <kozebamze> How are you doing? :D
[02:03:26] <Baastuul> Not bad, not bad. Just a little annoyed at my crappy ISP, but I guess that's just the misfortune of being in a place without broadband. :)
[02:03:33] <kozebamze> hehe
[02:03:36] <kozebamze> yeah..
[02:03:43] <Baastuul> How're you doing?
[02:04:33] <kozebamze> I'm a little tired
[02:04:49] <kozebamze> and I am trying to do something
[02:05:52] <kozebamze> I'm trying to loop the Ogg encoded Music files
[02:06:07] <kozebamze> the music plays only once
[02:06:58] <kozebamze> the music loops when you enable FMSynth
[02:07:08] <kozebamze> hmm
[02:07:42] <kozebamze> I'm looking for midi files too
[02:08:34] <kozebamze> Ogg encoded won't loop so I'll have to loop the midi files instead
[02:09:01] <kozebamze> but I don't have any midi files in the /ultima7BG/static folder
[02:09:32] <kozebamze> ok
[02:09:49] <kozebamze> Baastuul: what are you working on?
[02:10:00] <kozebamze> got any projects?
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[02:25:44] <kozebamze> what is nuvie? :D:D:D
[02:27:55] <kozebamze> I think it's some sort of a program
[02:28:54] <kozebamze> damn, I don't wanna play Ultima VII,, :\
[02:29:03] <kozebamze> Vi
[02:29:08] <kozebamze> Ultima 6
[02:29:25] <kozebamze> the graphics is just eeeeew
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[02:30:58] <shazza> .
[03:15:39] <servus> kozebamze does not like to stay.
[03:16:58] <servus> Why aren't people reading my directions to get the Windows binary working
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[03:28:15] <MagicMop> Hello all!
[03:32:01] <servus> Greetings, person from phorum.
[03:42:27] <servus> Current status of Ultima VII 3D Models: http://rafb.net/paste/results/VsrX7k69.html
[03:53:13] <MagicMop> Cool. Over 200 objects. Good progress.
[03:54:10] <servus> That's the static objects. Including animated objects you have almost twice that...
[03:54:44] <servus> Doing mountains right now. Almost done. There are several dozen mountain shapes... then the special mountain pieces...
[03:55:18] <MagicMop> Are you going to have snowy peaks to your mini mountains? ;)
[03:56:51] <servus> I don't know. I'm deciding upon it right now.
[03:57:05] <servus> I think I might replace the stone with a different type of rock...
[03:58:30] <MagicMop> Which stone? Mountain stone?
[04:02:26] <servus> The mountains, yes.
[04:03:44] <MagicMop> Are you planning on making the camera primarily controlled by the user, or are you going to go for a set of pre-set camera positions?
[04:03:57] <MagicMop> (Or undecided at this point...) :)
[04:04:07] <servus> Undeclared.
[04:04:18] <MagicMop> Gotcha... ;)
[04:09:38] <servus> If you have any suggestions, go ahead
[04:18:08] <servus> Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Mountains. There are a LOT of mountains.
[04:26:56] <MagicMop> Well, as far as camera angles - I think it would be cool if there was two modes: a free camera mode, and a preset position camera mode
[04:27:02] <servus> Mountains line up pretty well.
[04:27:25] <servus> I plan on having a "rubber" 3rd person camera that tries to keep up with your vector of movement but lags a bit, and responds to obstacles.
[04:27:51] <servus> It's completely up in the air.
[04:28:05] <MagicMop> Well, that sounds good too...
[04:29:15] <MagicMop> You could have preset angles like Classic (standard U7 overhead view), Overhead (like Tomb Raider/U9), First Person etc..
[04:35:35] <servus> Yeah.
[04:35:48] <servus> First-person will look acceptable once all non-wall models are created.
[04:37:36] <MagicMop> It'll be pretty wierd playing U7 from a first person point of view. A whole new experience...
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[04:56:22] <servus> Lots of work left to do
[05:00:53] <servus> New mountain theory -- white areas are 32 clicks (4 lifts) higher than non-white areas.
[05:01:54] <servus> Thank goodness for 3D Studio Max!
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[05:18:46] <servus> Hmm, multi-level mountains don't work right because the original artists didn't take care to make all the white portions line up correctly :-( -- they look cool for the most part thoug!
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[05:23:32] <servus> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-34.jpg
[05:23:35] <servus> Ze mountains, ja?
[05:24:18] <Lord_Nightmare> servus: could you add a mario64-style follows-character-but-avoids-obstuctions camera? yes i know its been patented, but exult is free so you wouldn't be making money off of it, therefore patents are useless....
[05:24:53] <servus> Such a thing is not patentable, and I've already been planning that for a while.
[05:25:12] <Lord_Nightmare> not patentable? nintendo was granted the patent.
[05:25:20] <Lord_Nightmare> not enforcable is another story
[05:25:46] <Lord_Nightmare> especially since prior art exists (look at 'die by the sword' for a good example of prior art)
[05:26:01] <servus> That sort of thing is in tons of games. There is no patent, even if someone says there is.
[05:27:06] <Lord_Nightmare> btw speaking of patents and prior art... y'know that patent on block-writing to cdrs and cdr/ws (where new files supercede older versions of files) which was applied for in 1996 or so, hence actually being the first implementation, and being held up in court?
[05:27:22] <Lord_Nightmare> I know of prior art to it by at LEAST 2 years
[05:27:28] <Lord_Nightmare> two words:
[05:27:32] <Lord_Nightmare> Kodak PhotoCD
[05:28:27] <Lord_Nightmare> I was GOING to post that when the big /. article about it came up, but I never got around to registering an account... It really IS prior art though.
[05:29:31] <servus> Who cares about Slashdot? Bunch of people that don't read articles is all they are.
[05:29:52] <Lord_Nightmare> therefore proving the patent isn't unique. however... I think (and likely wrongly but i'm not certain) that if someone points that out in court, it may result in the patent's ownership being given to kodak. and kodak is already in deep business trouble because of digital cameras, so they'd certainly milk that patent for every cent...
[05:30:45] <Lord_Nightmare> i hope SOMEBODY here points this info out to the EFF or something
[05:30:55] <servus> What does this have to do with Exult3D Mountains? :-)
[05:31:00] <Lord_Nightmare> nothing
[05:31:12] <servus> You didn't even look!
[05:31:39] <Lord_Nightmare> whoa, cool
[05:31:46] <Lord_Nightmare> is that a new avatar model?
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[05:32:30] <servus> You haven't seen any screen shots for a long time, huh?
[05:32:36] <Lord_Nightmare> not since 21
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[05:32:53] <servus> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-26.jpg
[05:32:54] <Lord_Nightmare> ooh, the well looks nice
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[05:36:38] <shazza> wow looking from the first exult3d screenshot
[05:36:42] <shazza> it really shows the progress
[05:36:58] <servus> With the coloured blocks? :-)
[05:37:16] <shazza> yes
[05:37:27] <shazza> hehe
[05:37:35] <servus> Well that was just a proof-of-concept.
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[05:41:59] <Lord_Nightmare> what is craque?
[05:42:28] <Baastuul> No idea.
[05:42:30] <servus> French.
[05:42:44] <Lord_Nightmare> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Craque.jpg
[05:42:46] <servus> It's a texture I made.
[05:42:52] <Lord_Nightmare> ah
[05:43:24] <Baastuul> Oh, heh. "Craque" is "crack," duh.
[05:43:47] <Baastuul> Servus, you are doing a great job with U73D. Keep up the good work. :)
[05:43:49] <shazza> I hope Exult3D runs fine on my computer.
[05:43:53] <Lord_Nightmare> is it a dynamic crack engine or something? 'craque' sounds like it'd be the name of such a thing... you feed it material textures and bumpmaps and it cracks them apart and 'cements' the pieces together, and does shadowing...
[05:43:54] <servus> shazza, it won't :_p
[05:44:09] <shazza> Heheh.
[05:44:11] <servus> My typing has gone to heck.
[05:44:11] <shazza> ;)
[05:44:17] <servus> Nah, Lord_Nightmare. Someone bet me that I couldn'
[05:44:17] <shazza> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-33.jpg
[05:44:20] <shazza> Oh my God.
[05:44:26] <servus> Nah, Lord_Nightmare. Someone bet me that I couldn't make a full game-suitable tileable texture in 10 minutes.
[05:44:57] <shazza> Holy hell Exult3D-33.jpg looks awesome.
[05:45:43] <servus> It's getting there.
[05:45:51] <servus> Awesome amounts of work, you mean :-p
[05:46:07] <shazza> Awesome amounts of work, the picture looks great.
[05:46:10] <shazza> I think it is the sky.
[05:46:32] <Baastuul> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-33.jpg <-- Is this the house of the three farmers on Moonglow?
[05:46:34] <servus> After taking the shot, I noticed a rock in the right that I forgot to remodel.
[05:46:49] <servus> I think so, Baastuul. There is precious little corn in the game.
[05:47:06] <shazza> Mmm corn.
[05:47:36] <shazza> Do you think you will be able to do the animations of NPC's okay?
[05:47:55] <servus> Avatar and Iolo animations look fine, and they get the same animations as every other human.
[05:48:13] <servus> I use a skeleton to animate, so all I need to do is make a model and physique it to the skeleton, and it will automagically get animated.
[05:48:49] <shazza> say if you get spark to join or something
[05:48:50] <Lord_Nightmare> what happened to Exult3D-24.jpg?
[05:48:56] <shazza> does it look odd with spark as a normal 2d
[05:48:59] <shazza> and iolo and the avatar 3d
[05:49:00] <shazza> :P
[05:49:15] <servus> What do you mean, Lord_Nightmare? The d in 3d in 25 is lowercase.
[05:49:23] <Lord_Nightmare> aha
[05:49:24] <servus> Probably, shazza. He'd be a small cube.
[05:50:12] <Lord_Nightmare> nah it just goes Exult3D-23.jpg Exult3d-25.jpg Exult3D-26.jpg
[05:50:59] <servus> No, 24 is certainly there http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-24.jpg
[05:51:24] <Lord_Nightmare> oh you
[05:51:25] <Baastuul> Loads for me. Nice well. :D
[05:51:26] <Lord_Nightmare> re right
[05:51:29] <Lord_Nightmare> sorry
[05:51:34] <servus> Thanks
[05:52:36] <Lord_Nightmare> bleh. the preview for 22 and 24 is the same even though the images are different
[05:52:48] <Lord_Nightmare> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/?Time
[05:53:13] <servus> Heh
[05:53:14] <servus> How about that.
[05:53:40] <servus> Fixed.
[05:55:28] <Baastuul> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/hand-illustrated/GROSS.jpg <-- Is this you, Servus? :)
[05:55:35] <servus> That is me.
[05:55:38] <servus> Graaaaaaaaaaaah.
[05:55:51] <servus> My face is a bit stretched...
[05:56:06] <servus> Better pictures of me elsewhere...
[05:57:07] <Baastuul> I have found them!
[05:57:23] <Lord_Nightmare> the tree in Tree.jpg looks a bit scraggly... not enough leaves...
[05:57:55] <servus> The trees are fine.
[05:58:19] <servus> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-32.jpg Lush enough for me.
[06:07:53] <servus> I must be super sexy to look at.
[06:10:30] <Lord_Nightmare> yeah i guess you're right.
[06:10:43] <Lord_Nightmare> when you put 'em together they look nice
[06:10:58] <servus> Not bad for 200-ish polygons I think. *Shrug*
[06:13:31] <Baastuul> Servus, I like those glasses you are wearing in that picture where you are wearing the white shirt.
[06:13:34] <Baastuul> The formal-ish one.
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[06:13:40] <Baastuul> Hi, Malygris.
[06:13:49] <Malygris> Hey.
[06:14:24] <Malygris> So.
[06:14:46] <servus> Are you going to steal them?
[06:16:49] <Baastuul> Yes. I will eat them.
[06:17:01] <servus> You vile pig.
[06:17:33] <MagicMop> Glad I'm not the only one who eats glasses...
[06:18:23] <servus> What good is a glass dagger?
[06:19:42] <Baastuul> PAIN.
[06:19:46] <Baastuul> But time for sleep. Good night!
[06:21:18] <Malygris> Baast showed me some Ultima-related screenshots, including a bunch of Underworld. Is that just Underworld-inspired art, or are you actually remaking the game?
[06:26:48] <servus> Abyss? Underworld-inspired.
[06:27:13] <Malygris> Pity.
[06:28:05] <servus> Hmm
[06:28:22] <servus> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/UW1-1.png You should recognize the layout of this level.
[06:29:49] <Malygris> I was looking at that earlier, actually.
[06:30:12] <Malygris> Very nice. I wish somebody would get on with the job of fully redoing Underworld with a modern engine.
[06:30:47] <servus> http://low.sf.net http://uwadv.sf.net Start programming:)
[06:30:57] <Malygris> Ah, no. I'm no programmer.
[06:31:11] <servus> What are you?
[06:31:26] <Malygris> Cute and witty, mostly.
[06:33:39] <servus> They pay you for that?
[06:35:34] <Malygris> Sadly, no.
[06:35:54] <servus> What do they pay you for?
[06:36:02] <Malygris> Very little, actually.
[06:36:28] <servus> Ah, you must be part of the Exult3D team.
[06:36:36] <Malygris> Not yet! But I could be.
[06:37:18] <servus> What would you do?
[06:38:45] <Malygris> I don't know. I'm not really qualified to do much of anything. But I'm fun to have around on irc, sometimes.
[06:39:14] <servus> Do you do any sort of tricks?
[06:39:57] <Malygris> Not the sort of tricks that are of any value on the net.
[06:41:43] <servus> Can you do the limbo?
[06:45:00] <Malygris> I haven't tried in a long time.
[06:46:01] <servus> Then how did you get in the room?
[06:48:55] <servus> It's upsetting that the original Ultima7 artists did not place mountain peaks so that the white parts line up all the time. They sometimes left things wide open!
[06:48:57] <servus> Gah.
[06:54:43] <Malygris> I don't understand this technical stuff. I just like the game.
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[06:58:55] <servus> Colourless, got double-tiered mountains in.
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[07:09:59] <MagicMop> I can't seem to get to your pictures at 24.205.120.21. Do you have a FQDN ?
[07:11:18] <servus> :81
[07:11:47] <servus> http://sammatthews.com:81/images/screenshots/
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[08:43:01] <Malygris> Thanks for having me. Night.
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[08:49:50] <wjp> hm, busy night :-)
[08:51:16] <servus> is it?
[08:51:18] <servus> Sorry, Exultbot.
[08:51:25] <servus> *Heh*heh*heh*
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[12:49:02] <sbx> hi
[12:49:55] <servus> sbx, http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-34.jpg
[12:51:58] <sbx> servus, eek... that's some rough terrain :)
[12:52:10] <sbx> Did that take long?
[12:52:23] <servus> Not too long.
[12:52:56] <servus> A good modelling programming (3DMax) and experience with it helps a lot.
[12:52:57] <sbx> That's better than I expected them, without making them huge.
[12:53:07] <sbx> yeah
[12:53:10] <sbx> What do dungeons look like?
[12:53:22] <sbx> or dungeon entrances
[12:53:32] <servus> The white parts raise up 32 clicks (4 lifts), but I might undo that because the U7 artists did not make all mountain tops have white parts that line up with each other.
[12:53:36] <sbx> oh you missed a boulder
[12:53:37] <servus> Not modelled yet, that
[12:53:42] <servus> Yeah I know
[12:53:52] <servus> Not missed so much as I'm doing other stuff, honest ;-)
[12:54:44] <sbx> This reminds me that inside houses will still look strange because of low roofs.
[12:55:18] <servus> That can be helped a bit
[12:55:35] <servus> Specifically, that can be helped 7 clicks (7/8 of a lift)
[12:56:07] <sbx> oh
[12:56:13] <sbx> that isn't changing the game?
[12:56:33] <sbx> Oh no, now that you posted the binary on the forum you have to do technical support.
[12:57:03] <servus> Tell me about it =-/
[12:57:11] <servus> I thought I made it very clear that it wasn't expected to work.
[12:59:56] <servus> So I'm not sure what to do about those raised white peaks in the mountain tops.... they look great but darnit the original game messed up =-/
[13:00:21] <servus> Looks good with just a white texture too, but double-level looks much better, imho
[13:00:26] <Fl00der> servus: hi, any new great pics from exult3d? :)
[13:00:34] <servus> Might just add a cap polygon under the mountain peak
[13:01:13] <servus> Fl00der, the last you saw was 31. there is now http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-32.jpg http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-33.jpg and http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-34.jpg
[13:02:09] <Fl00der> hmph, can't get open links
[13:03:46] <servus> I blame Firefox.
[13:04:12] <Fl00der> I have firefox x)
[13:04:33] <sbx> Mine open in IE... even though Opera is my default browser.
[13:05:17] <servus> I was reading your access logs, Fl00der :P
[13:06:22] <sbx> Since when does Milla Jovovich sing?
[13:06:36] <Fl00der> servus: huh?
[13:06:40] <servus> She has a very high-rated album on Amazon.com
[13:06:51] <sbx> Is it any good?
[13:06:56] <servus> There you saw it, Fl00der
[13:07:00] <servus> I think so, sbx
[13:07:07] <servus> My... dog... stinks...
[13:07:38] <sbx> The top song in the UK now just chants the names of major pop/rock singers.
[13:07:55] <servus> What's that? I don't follow popular music
[13:08:57] <sbx> Kill Pop Music? something like that
[13:09:04] <Fl00der> me neither, I just listen it ;)
[13:09:05] <sbx> can't help with the title
[13:09:09] <sbx> hehe
[13:09:25] * servus turns up Miles Davis :-p
[13:09:50] <sbx> someone thinks u7 is boring without music
[13:10:07] <Fl00der> well it's not boring but it's better with music :P
[13:10:16] <Colourless> <sbx> Since when does Milla Jovovich sing? << since always... ok not really 'always'
[13:10:23] <servus> <kozebamze> Ultima 6
[13:10:23] <servus> <kozebamze> the graphics is just eeeeew
[13:10:40] <sbx> Colourless: Oh ok I havn't followed her career. :)
[13:10:46] <servus> Colourless, I'm not going to look it up!
[13:11:19] <sbx> hmm, at least the guy left after that
[13:12:22] <azzahs> I changed from Opera to Firefox about 30minutes ago. :o
[13:13:21] <servus> Firefox has a few annoyances left to work out, like how hovering over an image does not show the alt-text!
[13:13:47] <azzahs> WHAT
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[13:13:51] <shazza> >:(
[13:14:00] <Colourless> firefox has alot of annoyances
[13:14:10] <Colourless> most of them due to the fact i was a long time IE users
[13:14:16] <shazza> 99% chance I will be going back to Opera.
[13:14:18] <shazza> :P
[13:14:18] <Colourless> so i got used to the way ie did things
[13:14:22] <servus> Why would it not show alt tags?
[13:14:24] <sbx> opera doesn't do that either
[13:14:26] <sbx> (alt-text)
[13:14:27] <servus> They are essential!
[13:14:40] <servus> You need to right-click something and go to properties to view it? Ehh?
[13:14:41] <Colourless> shows alt-text for me...
[13:14:48] <sbx> where?
[13:14:51] <shazza> You can easily edit the source to fix it.
[13:14:54] <servus> In a tooltip?
[13:14:55] <shazza> Actually, Opera works fine for me
[13:15:00] <Colourless> yes in a tooltip
[13:15:04] <sbx> tried it on the exult logo
[13:15:11] <servus> shazza, I know all about editting open source software; it's not easy :)
[13:15:14] <sbx> but it shows tooltips for links
[13:15:30] <Colourless> hmm. not on the exult logo
[13:15:39] <Colourless> hmm.
[13:15:42] <Colourless> was on some sites
[13:15:49] <Colourless> not on the exult site..
[13:16:24] <Colourless> i know
[13:16:36] <Colourless> it's showing title properties for images in a tooltip
[13:16:39] <Colourless> not alttext
[13:18:07] <sbx> ah
[13:18:07] <servus> I was on ebay trying to figure out what icons meant, and I had to go to properties on each icons. That is a bad UI decision and it seems like they did it on purpose
[13:18:07] <sbx> there is probably a help page
[13:18:19] <servus> I should have been able to put the mouse over the icons and seen the alt-text that the web developers had put there!
[13:18:33] <Colourless> yeah
[13:18:41] <sbx> Here is Opera's KB page about it (I just searched): http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=26&session=d81a2ee3cbfcbacb5b4c8916edaab845
[13:18:45] <Colourless> probably is a 'plugin' to fix it
[13:19:01] <Colourless> which in someways is a flaw in firefox
[13:19:37] <Colourless> if some aspect of the interface is slightly flawed and someone writes a pluging to fix it, then the dev of firefox might then ignore the problem
[13:20:32] <Colourless> re: alt
[13:20:41] <Colourless> the 'title' property didn't always exist
[13:21:02] <servus> Well titles are special
[13:21:12] <servus> They can be affixed to any block element IIRC.
[13:21:23] <servus> Images should still have their special alt attribute displayed!@
[13:21:50] <Colourless> it could be understood that if there is title, display that
[13:21:56] <Colourless> but if no title, display alt
[13:22:10] <Colourless> alt has been used as info about images for years
[13:22:40] <servus> Every since the first HTML standard I think.
[13:22:45] <servus> Title is CSS2?
[13:23:04] <servus> Any way, bad design decision.
[13:25:01] <Colourless> title is HTLM4 i think
[13:26:49] <servus> Right, HTML 4 Strict.
[13:27:02] <servus> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#h-7.4.3
[13:27:32] <Colourless> IE4 was the first browser to support it...
[13:27:48] <servus> Dog... Stinks... Can't... Breathe.... Literally.
[13:29:14] <Fl00der> :)
[13:37:27] <sbx> When do dogs get modelled?
[13:38:07] <servus> Soon as I wrap mine up in duct tape and ship it out the door
[13:41:00] <servus> This new U2 album sucks
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[13:47:22] <sbx> I'm not sure I care for a permanent first-person camera mode. Maybe you guys that played UW realize it's a good feature.
[13:47:40] <servus> who mentioned permanent first person
[13:47:49] <sbx> you
[13:47:52] <sbx> last week
[13:48:02] <sbx> I know it's "undeclared". :)
[13:48:12] <servus> I doubt it, and if I did, it was a typo
[13:48:22] <servus> Why would I model the avatar if I was planning that?
[13:48:24] <Fl00der> First person would be nice
[13:48:32] <Fl00der> if you could choose
[13:49:02] <sbx> it would only be one mode
[13:49:02] <sbx> by permanent I mean you can play like that
[13:49:02] <sbx> not that there are no other modes
[13:49:05] <servus> Oh, yeah, well sure.
[13:49:34] <servus> Will be kinda chunky though since the avatar will always move in 8-unit steps
[13:49:57] <sbx> It's fine just switching to it temporarily to look around, but maybe UW fans and others want to play like that.
[13:50:40] <servus> Not very feasible to actually move around in first person
[13:51:00] <servus> I'd have to change a lot of infrastructure get smooth movement, but...
[13:51:01] <servus> HMm.
[13:51:15] <servus> I could do it with a hack, actually
[13:51:50] <servus> Keep sub-tile position in the GL manager, and just use it for rendering the camera and, avatar... might be workable, but definitely not an "anytime soon" thing
[13:52:07] <sbx> could just leave that up to someone else to patch in, if they care enough about it
[13:52:41] <servus> what? you mean it's possible to find other people to work on it? :P
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[13:57:21] <sbx> hi Baastuul
[13:58:02] <Fl00der> hi baastuul
[14:01:28] <servus> I need sleep bad. night.
[14:01:58] <sbx> bye
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[21:37:29] <servus> See I shouldn't have released a binary!
[21:44:21] <sbx> hi
[21:46:09] <sbx> I liked Wizardry Dragon's post too. :)
[21:47:26] <sbx> he's just helping document all the bugs for you :)
[22:01:26] <sbx> time to go
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