#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Jul 2001 (GMT)

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[10:04:25] <Dominus> hi
[10:04:56] <Dominus> Kirben: in your opinion whatīs better/faster for compiling? Mingw32 or Cxgwin?
[10:05:18] <Kirben> Cygwin
[10:05:33] <Dominus> how so?
[10:06:44] <Kirben> A bash shell is easier to work under, would be very little difference speed wise
[10:06:59] <Dominus> ok
[10:07:22] <Dominus> what produced the bigger exult.exe? (this 40kb you mentioned)
[10:07:34] <Kirben> Cygwin
[10:08:22] <Dominus> recently I started building my own snap thatīs why Iīm interested (and found the readme.win32 hopelessly outdated :-))
[10:08:24] <Kirben> Plus there is problem with install method in makefile.win32
[10:08:39] <Dominus> ?
[10:08:41] <Kirben> use my compile guide on site
[10:08:52] <Dominus> I did :-)
[10:09:07] <Dominus> install method problem?
[10:09:51] <Dominus> btw, would you mind if I update that readme with your two guides?
[10:10:22] <Kirben> Well makefile.win32 offers option at start to select install directory but different sections of the install part need to use different backslashs so it fails partly. I should take that out
[10:10:50] <Kirben> Would be best not to currently
[10:11:03] <Dominus> why not?
[10:12:45] <Kirben> Well extra copy intruction for mingw compile should be added but would be better to wait until make in included in new mingw before complete update
[10:13:26] <Kirben> hmm mine is out of date too on that point
[10:13:31] <Dominus> ok
[10:14:38] <Kirben> Using mingw through Cygwin itself isn't really supported either (By Cygwin develoeprs), so better to leave it out of docs for now.
[10:14:57] <Dominus> :-)
[10:29:58] <Dominus> ok, cu next time
[10:30:00] <Dominus> bye
[10:30:02] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Got to play Exult now)
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[12:31:03] <sty_work> ave
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[13:06:43] * Colourless declares ownership of this channel
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[13:08:37] <Nadir> hi
[13:08:43] <Colourless> hi
[13:09:00] <Nadir> colourless: have you ever tried compiling the Exult GIMP plugin on Win32 ?
[13:09:26] <Colourless> no, because I never got round to getting the gimp sdk
[13:09:46] <Nadir> maybe Kirben has tried
[13:11:25] <Colourless> omg....
[13:11:26] <Colourless> http://www.voodooextreme.com/comments.taf?postID=17731
[13:15:44] * Nadir checks the link
[13:16:17] * Nadir is feeling watched
[13:16:55] <Colourless> yeah
[13:19:05] <Nadir> jackchaos is still down
[13:19:40] <Colourless> what do you think is up with that?
[13:20:34] <Nadir> hm. The entire site is blocked... hacked ? crashed ? disabled forever ?
[13:24:51] <Nadir> is there an e-mail address for the owner of Jackchaos ?
[13:25:21] <Colourless> i don't know
[13:29:21] <Colourless> mail servers are running
[13:30:38] <Nadir> is it U*ix ?
[13:31:15] <Colourless> telnet says FreeBSD
[13:32:08] <Nadir> let's mail root@jackchaos.com then
[13:32:35] <Nadir> you can telnet into Jackchaos ? He's left port 23 open ?
[13:32:48] <Colourless> yeah, 23 is open
[13:33:12] <Nadir> ghastly
[13:33:26] <-- sty_work has left IRC (Read error to sty_work[]: Connection reset by peer)
[13:33:41] <Nadir> there is also a webmaster@jackchaos.com
[13:34:04] <Colourless> ftp works
[13:34:06] <Colourless> anonymous
[13:54:00] <Nadir> what do I need to do before leaving Moonshade in SI ? I've killed Rotoluncia, I've given bloodmoss to Pothos, I've even found The Comb of Beauty. When I ring the bell to the north of the island and chant the mantra, the serpent tells me I've forgotten something...
[13:55:29] <Colourless> from memory that is what you need to do, but I've been in the same situation a few time in the original game as well
[13:56:37] <Nadir> exult bug ? It doesn't really look like one
[13:56:58] <Colourless> no, i wouldn't think so
[14:04:42] <Nadir> hmm, Filbercio's barge allows me to travel on ground...
[14:09:13] <Nadir> why does ALT-K need a double-click to work ?
[14:09:25] <Colourless> what does alt-k do?
[14:09:37] <Nadir> keyring-type action
[14:09:49] <Colourless> hmm. lets see
[14:11:19] <Colourless> hmm, so it does
[14:13:48] <Colourless> Alt-K doesn't even work properly for me
[14:14:00] <Colourless> it doesn't unlock the doors
[14:33:30] <Colourless> nice error message written by me here: No midi data in loaded.
[15:07:01] --> wjp has joined #exult
[15:07:03] <wjp> hi
[15:07:10] <Colourless> hi
[15:07:48] <wjp> * Colourless declares ownership of this channel <-- again? ;-)
[15:08:05] <Colourless> yes
[15:08:18] <Colourless> i'm just making sure people know
[15:08:29] <wjp> ;-)
[15:08:32] <wjp> there :-)
[15:08:40] <Colourless> oooh
[15:08:47] <Colourless> having fun?
[15:08:58] <wjp> oh yes :-)
[15:09:48] <wjp> bah, you're no fun ;-)
[15:09:58] <Colourless> why not?
[15:11:12] <wjp> you didn't even complain that I removed you from the auto-op list ;-)
[15:11:36] <Colourless> hehe
[15:12:45] <Colourless> Alt-K isn't working properly BTW.
[15:12:58] <wjp> what was that again?
[15:13:04] <wjp> oh, never mind
[15:13:14] <wjp> try all keys in SI, right?
[15:13:36] <Colourless> yeah
[15:16:02] <wjp> what's wrong with it?
[15:16:56] <Colourless> You press Alt-K, you then click on the thing to unlock. If the thing can be unlocked, it wants another click
[15:17:19] <wjp> hmm, I see
[15:18:03] <wjp> kind of makes sense
[15:18:12] <wjp> we need a 'unlock' function
[15:18:22] <wjp> I was thinking of writing one anyway, as a cheat
[15:25:17] <Nadir> hi wjp
[15:25:19] <wjp> hi
[15:25:42] <Colourless> BG has the same problem
[15:25:47] <wjp> yes
[15:26:42] <wjp> it's because it simply calls the key's usecode function, which expects a click
[15:27:08] <Colourless> yeah
[15:27:33] <Nadir> can't we generate a synthetic click ?
[15:28:02] <Colourless> perhaps, but it would probably just be easier to replicate the usecode
[15:30:56] <wjp> those unlock usecode functions are slightly messy
[15:31:16] <wjp> lots of special cases, it seems
[15:31:37] <Colourless> oh
[15:32:33] <wjp> but on the other hand...
[15:32:50] <wjp> it looks like 0815 is the generic unlock-door function
[15:33:00] <wjp> (for non-magical-locked doors)
[15:35:11] <wjp> oh, and it even locks unlocked doors too
[15:37:02] <wjp> chests are done directly in 0281 (the 'key' usecode)
[15:38:10] <Colourless> there is some wierd stuff in SI's 0281
[15:38:54] <wjp> hmm, there's two doors that cause a flag to be cleared when you unlock it (in BG)
[15:39:07] <Colourless> a call to "Add To Party?"
[15:39:14] <wjp> ??
[15:39:22] <Colourless> i think I know what that's for
[15:39:38] <Colourless> i think it could be for when you rescue npc's
[15:39:52] <wjp> ah, right
[15:40:09] <wjp> the Moonshade-kidnap
[15:40:14] <Colourless> could be
[15:41:30] <Nadir> dupre didn't join my party automatically after I rescue him
[15:41:44] <wjp> hmm, the quality on the door doesn't seem to match either
[15:42:19] <Colourless> it could be for the Order (?) guy you 'rescue' later in the game
[15:42:42] <wjp> quality 117
[15:43:01] <wjp> hmm... entering all game objects into an SQL database begins to sound better and better :-)
[15:43:16] <wjp> select * from object where shape=door and quality=117; :-)
[15:43:38] * Nadir believes wjp should be granted the "Great Idea of the Week" award
[15:43:59] <wjp> :-)
[15:44:01] <Colourless> 'tis an old idea though ;-)
[15:44:11] <Nadir> who had it first ?
[15:44:18] <Colourless> wjp :)
[15:44:20] <wjp> me, but about a month ago
[15:44:55] <Nadir> exultbot: I want search capability in your logs
[15:45:21] <exultbot> yes, I've been considering that too
[15:46:58] <wjp> see the 24 June log
[15:47:32] <wjp> grep SQL * ;-)
[15:47:55] <Nadir> exultbot: I also want you to automatically create links from URLs in the logs
[15:48:09] <Nadir> exultbot: make coffee while you're at it
[15:48:39] <wjp> hehe :-)
[15:49:05] <Nadir> exultbot: jump
[15:49:07] <Nadir> exultbot: sit
[15:49:19] * exultbot ignores Nadir
[15:49:41] <wjp> :-)
[15:50:28] <wjp> linkifying URL's should be doable
[15:53:30] <Nadir> there must be something on CPAN for that.
[15:54:04] <wjp> 117 = mint door!
[15:58:23] <Nadir> WHo's at the mint ?
[16:01:08] <wjp> Selina is added to the party by that call
[16:02:03] <Nadir> aha !
[16:02:48] <Nadir> Paulon Dragon always complains that Exult's lightning is in a disturbing yellowish tint.
[16:03:03] <wjp> didn't Jeff fix that a while back?
[16:04:57] <Colourless> grrr. Kirben broke the Win32 makefile for me
[16:05:34] <Nadir> did he ?
[16:05:38] <Colourless> yeah
[16:06:18] <Colourless> he changes like all of the \\\ to \ which has screwed compiling Exult with Mingw for me
[16:07:33] * wjp takes a look at that Makefile
[16:07:34] <Colourless> opps, i meant \\
[16:08:04] <wjp> -DVESRION=\\\"0.94cvs\\\" ??
[16:08:06] <wjp> ugh
[16:08:10] <Colourless> no, the paths
[16:08:50] <Colourless> in things like: strip $(EXEC) -0 $(U7PATH)\$(EXEC)
[16:09:19] <wjp> which results in escaping the $
[16:09:21] <wjp> bad
[16:09:25] <Colourless> yeah
[16:09:43] <wjp> can't you change them to /'s?
[16:10:00] <Colourless> not for all the calls
[16:10:19] <Colourless> copy doesn't like /'s
[16:10:57] <Nadir> I blame it on Microsoft. Using \ (escape) as file separator was a really stupid thing to do.
[16:11:21] <Colourless> but copy seems to be working fine with only single \'s
[16:11:50] <Nadir> use cp
[16:12:00] <Colourless> HOW?!
[16:12:07] <Colourless> it's not like it have it
[16:12:25] <Colourless> like I have it
[16:12:41] <Nadir> doesn't cygwin have cp ?
[16:12:52] <Colourless> it does, but I don't use cygwin
[16:14:20] <Nadir> jeff fixed lightning 10 days ago according to CVS
[16:14:22] * Colourless scratches his head.
[16:14:41] <Colourless> it appears compiling under msvc isn't quite working properly. Usecode in SI isn't running exactly correctly
[16:15:25] <Colourless> for example, keys and lock picks don't work, but compiling with gcc and mingw works fine
[16:17:01] <Nadir> no optimization ?
[16:17:16] <Colourless> debug build
[16:20:22] <Nadir> odd
[16:23:36] <Colourless> hmmm. Get Item Shape returned the wrong shape
[16:27:16] <Colourless> it's returned the avatars shape when it was supposed to return the chests shape
[16:31:57] <Nadir> msvc build ? is it some memory corruption thing ?
[16:32:26] <Colourless> i'm attempting to find out which function is causing the problem
[16:36:58] <Colourless> i know that the pointer being passed to get_item_shape is the pointer for the chest
[16:37:21] <Colourless> ouch
[16:37:28] <Colourless> have a look at this
[16:37:29] <Colourless> USECODE_INTRINSIC(get_item_shape)
[16:37:29] <Colourless> {
[16:37:29] <Colourless> Game_object *item = get_item(parms[0]);
[16:37:29] <Colourless> // Want the actual, not polymorph'd.
[16:37:30] <Colourless> Actor *act = as_actor(item);
[16:37:31] <Colourless> return Usecode_value(item == 0 ? 0 :
[16:37:33] <Colourless> (act ? act->get_shape_real() : item->get_shapenum()));
[16:37:35] <Colourless> }
[16:38:15] <Colourless> you'd think that would work
[16:38:36] <Colourless> but obviously msvc is thinking that the item is an actor
[16:43:04] <Nadir> curious.
[16:43:19] <Colourless> i think i've fixed the problem...
[16:43:35] <Colourless> i changed a project setting in msvc
[16:44:01] <Colourless> i think it's related to the warning i was getting about dynamic_casts causing unpredictable behaviour
[16:44:58] <Colourless> yeah, it works now
[16:45:38] * Colourless still wonders, why would it matter to get_item_shape if the object was an Actor or not
[16:47:13] <Colourless> hmmm, it doesn't
[16:48:34] <Colourless> ah, it calls get_shape_real
[16:48:46] <Colourless> not get_shapenum
[16:48:56] <Colourless> yes, that would make a BIG difference
[16:50:04] <Nadir> still that guy on the SF forum complaining that Exult isn't useful to him as he doesn't have U7
[16:50:50] <Colourless> hmmmm
[16:51:11] <Colourless> has anyone said anything to him?
[16:51:17] <Nadir> I have
[16:51:20] <Nadir> :)
[16:55:24] <Nadir> Hey, we're #9 most active on SF !
[16:56:18] <Colourless> other projects mustn't be that busy then
[16:57:26] <Nadir> I think it was that checkin Fingolfin made yesterday
[16:58:15] <Colourless> i could imagine how that might make a difference
[16:58:19] <Nadir> and we have nearly 200 downloads every day
[16:58:50] <Nadir> 2000 page views yesterday
[16:59:56] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:06:36] <Nadir> I'm off now
[17:06:51] <Nadir> byedebye
[17:06:51] <Nadir> bye
[17:06:53] <Colourless> cya
[17:06:59] <-- Nadir has left IRC (Read error to Nadir[]: Connection reset by peer)
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[17:09:19] <Fingolfin> boo
[17:10:09] <Colourless> whoa
[17:11:40] <Fingolfin> so, who is accusing our lovely new point scaler of wrongness and faultiness?
[17:14:17] <Colourless> no one here
[17:15:04] <Fingolfin> your luck ;)
[17:15:26] <Colourless> :0
[17:15:45] <Colourless> i see that you've finally gotten a version of cvs that actually works properly ;-)
[17:16:04] <Fingolfin> on OS X? yeah. the problems lies withing configure.in
[17:16:12] <Fingolfin> by chance, I met jameson today in the university!
[17:16:39] <Fingolfin> he will be on vacation for some time starting this evening, but I hope we will be able to make a configure.in that runs on all systems, anyway ;)
[17:16:43] <Colourless> yeah. If you had done that last update with your old version, I would probably still be downloading the emails
[17:17:53] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[17:18:11] * wjp thinks that Fingolfin and Colourless may be talking about different things here :-)
[17:18:36] <Fingolfin> ah right ;)
[17:18:39] <Fingolfin> I think so, too
[17:18:40] <Fingolfin> well
[17:18:54] <Fingolfin> in fact, this CVS update was done with CVS on MacOS X, which is standard CVS (like on any Unix)
[17:25:04] * Colourless decided to break lots of exult, and switch the paperdolls over to Gumpshapefile's
[17:28:23] <wjp> were you here when I mentioned a 'ShapeManager' class to clean up gamewin?
[17:28:32] <Colourless> yeah
[17:29:10] <wjp> if we're breaking lots of exult anyway... :-)
[17:30:17] <Colourless> bah, it's not that much, just most of the gumps
[17:40:34] <Fingolfin> muwahah
[17:40:59] <Fingolfin> "this one line change will not break anything" - Famours last words of a programmer before ruining a project
[17:41:28] <Colourless> care to explain?
[17:43:41] <Fingolfin> ryan: never mind ;) but I think if we change a huge chunk of code, we are on the save side cause we will expect everything to cease working
[17:43:59] <Fingolfin> and in fact, we might be surprised when some stuff still works later on despite our fears ;)
[17:46:15] <wjp> :-)
[17:51:33] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (bbl, dinner now)
[17:51:43] <Colourless> that ShapeManage is beginning to sound like a really good idea
[17:52:45] <wjp> yeah :-)
[17:59:37] <wjp> what's a 'wine decanter'?
[17:59:49] <Colourless> something you put wine in
[18:00:07] <Colourless> like a bottle
[18:00:09] <wjp> hmm, do you remember which frame from shape 616 was named that?
[18:00:17] <wjp> (SI)
[18:00:42] <Colourless> if exult compiles... and runs... i'l try to tell you
[18:00:52] <wjp> I need to find the framenums for 'wine decanter', 'fawnish ale', 'ice wine', 'vintage wine'
[18:01:01] <wjp> fawnish ale == brown bottle, right?
[18:01:07] <Colourless> yeah
[18:01:31] <Colourless> my gump changes seem to be ok
[18:02:34] <Colourless> ice wine is 16
[18:02:41] <wjp> yeah, I got that one too
[18:03:10] * Colourless decides to do it the easy way... and runs the original
[18:04:34] <wjp> hmm, conversation seems very broken
[18:05:37] --> Cless has joined #Exult
[18:05:42] <Cless> 1 is wine decanter
[18:06:11] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout for Colourless[ppp1015.adelaide.on.net.au])
[18:06:12] --- Cless is now known as Colourless
[18:07:35] <Colourless> 9 is fawnish ale
[18:07:45] * wjp nods
[18:08:02] <wjp> just need the 'vintage wine'
[18:08:20] <wjp> 17 and/or 19, I guess
[18:08:40] <wjp> maybe 19 should be ice wine too
[18:09:24] <Colourless> 17
[18:10:15] <wjp> ?
[18:10:50] <Colourless> vintage wine is 17
[18:10:56] <wjp> ok, thanks
[18:11:14] <Colourless> 20 is Everlasting Goblet
[18:11:29] <wjp> yeah
[18:11:49] <wjp> should I make 19 ice wine too?
[18:11:59] <Colourless> no
[18:12:10] <wjp> just keep it at 'bottle'?
[18:12:46] <Colourless> yeah, that's what it is in the original. It's got palette cycling
[18:13:11] <Colourless> icewine doesn't
[18:13:18] <wjp> ok
[18:13:38] <wjp> hmm, interesting one: 'broken glass'
[18:14:48] <wjp> maybe part of the 'broken dish' shape? (546)
[18:15:42] <Colourless> yeah
[18:18:40] <wjp> frames 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15?
[18:18:43] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout for Colourless[ppp584.adelaide.on.net.au])
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[18:21:00] <Colourless> all of 546 are broken dish
[18:21:36] <wjp> hmm
[18:24:54] <Colourless> hmmm. we aren't palette cycling all the colours that are meant to be cycled
[18:26:04] <wjp> we're cycling 3 ranges
[18:26:35] <wjp> 234-241, 242-249, 250-253
[18:26:40] <Colourless> 677 frame 2 cycles in the original and not in exact
[18:26:45] <Colourless> exult
[18:27:03] <wjp> SI?
[18:27:07] <Colourless> yeah
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[18:27:35] <wjp> that one looks horrible in the shape browser
[18:27:54] <freedman> Hi... are conversations broken?
[18:27:56] <wjp> hi Jeff
[18:28:03] <Colourless> hi
[18:28:10] <freedman> Hi.
[18:28:18] <wjp> well, the text runs miles off the screen for me
[18:28:34] <freedman> Good. That's not my fault:-)
[18:28:40] <wjp> maybe I broke the get_text_width() function :-)
[18:28:41] <freedman> I just messed with the faces last night.
[18:29:08] <Colourless> how so?
[18:29:33] <freedman> There's a field in npcs.dat. I'm now saving/restoring it.
[18:29:52] <Colourless> ah
[18:30:18] <freedman> Useful for creating new NPC's.
[18:30:47] <wjp> Jeff: I've got a suggestion for cleaning up gamewin: create a separate 'ShapeManager' (or something like that) class
[18:31:12] <freedman> Yea, I saw that. Seems like a good idea. Shouldn't be any slower, either.
[18:31:35] <freedman> gamewin.cc is getting to be kind of amonster again.
[18:33:06] <freedman> Would it just be a class included in Game_window?
[18:33:39] <wjp> 'included in'?
[18:34:02] <freedman> Er, I mean a class member.
[18:34:34] <wjp> either that, or a singleton, I guess
[18:34:35] <freedman> Or just a separate class with a static 'get_instance()'?
[18:34:46] <wjp> yeah :-)
[18:34:59] <freedman> :-)
[18:35:00] <Colourless> world wrapping is kind of unstable.
[18:35:10] <wjp> yeah, it is
[18:35:14] <freedman> Probably...
[18:35:38] <freedman> But it seems to work when I'm trying to break it:-)
[18:35:41] <wjp> (btw, recompiling fixed conversations. Maybe something got out of synch)
[18:36:12] <wjp> teleporting (alt-t) to the edge almost always creates an infinite loop
[18:36:53] <freedman> World-wrapping problem: There's no strict ordering on integers mod n.
[18:37:37] <wjp> but there is on any subinterval
[18:37:58] <freedman> Right; that's what I tried to do, but not always successfully.
[18:39:19] <freedman> Sheesh, gamewin.h IS huge.
[18:40:40] <wjp> why does sh. 667, fr. 2 look so weird in exult?
[18:40:53] <wjp> (same for the last few cloak(227) frames)
[18:41:53] <freedman> What is it?
[18:42:25] <wjp> there's a huge weird-coloured rectangle over most of the image
[18:42:41] <wjp> (667 = stockings)
[18:43:11] <freedman> Are we doing translucency wrong in SI?
[18:44:46] <wjp> umm, I kind of meant 677
[18:45:53] <freedman> Can't view it at work.
[18:45:55] <Colourless> it looks worse in the Original. In thte original it's just a pulsating Square
[18:46:04] <Colourless> in exult it's just a square
[18:46:20] <freedman> Palette animation?
[18:46:23] <Colourless> yeah
[18:46:50] <wjp> I guess we need to animate 244-247 & 248-251 too
[18:47:20] <Colourless> yeah
[18:47:41] <freedman> Can give it a try.
[18:48:00] <Colourless> i think 244-247 are the teleport platforms in BG, which from memory aren't animated by exult, but should be
[18:48:01] <freedman> Maybe just for SI.
[18:48:31] <freedman> Cool
[18:48:59] <wjp> Colourless: yes, you're right
[18:51:33] <freedman> I'll try to be back later, after lunch. Bye.
[18:51:36] <-- freedman has left IRC (Leaving)
[19:01:35] <wjp> brb
[19:01:44] <Colourless> k
[19:07:58] * Colourless scratches his head
[19:08:30] <Colourless> why does Gump::paint_button(Game_window *gwin, Gump_button *btn) even exist?
[19:08:58] <Colourless> it's not like it's impossible to call Gump_button::paint(Game_window *gwin)
[19:09:16] * Colourless decides to remove paint button
[19:14:46] * Colourless notices that there isn't a Gump_button::paint method
[19:14:51] <wjp> :-)
[19:19:27] * Colourless now has lots of files to change
[19:28:11] <Colourless> everything seems to work
[19:28:46] <Colourless> now to get back to what I was going... the status bars
[20:09:44] <Colourless> bah, i've had enough for today
[20:20:22] <wjp> how's it going?
[20:21:10] <Colourless> things are mostly in the theory stage. Until a few minutes ago I still hadn't thought of the best way to actually get it to work
[20:21:41] <Colourless> thinking of a way of getting it to dynamically update was proving difficult
[20:22:35] <wjp> I see
[20:25:59] <wjp> aren't displayed gumps already updated when hitpoints change?
[20:39:48] <wjp> time for some Diablo 2 :-)
[20:39:51] <wjp> see you later
[20:40:06] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
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