#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Jun 2002 (GMT)

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[00:45:23] <-- bj0ern has left IRC ("All shall greet me as flesh, or as dust.")
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[04:56:51] <DoubleOBond> hi
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[09:15:22] <Kirben> Would VPATH variable be supported on all platforums ?
[09:18:52] <Darke> I don't know. I think there's something similar in the autoconf/automake system.
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[10:30:02] <sb-x> hi
[10:30:30] <Darke> Hi.
[10:33:25] * Darke sleeps. *grin* Night/Bye!
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[10:35:23] <sb-x> Hmm
[10:35:38] <sb-x> I'm going to see if the "no throwing up" bug happens in the original.
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[11:12:23] <Dominus> hi
[11:13:02] <Dominus> interesting stuff you are doing Kirben
[11:17:12] <Kirben> I got the idea from Fingolfin , who did it first for scummvm.
[11:17:24] <Kirben> Should be all done now I hope...
[11:17:45] <Dominus> the idea is good
[11:19:27] <Dominus> btw, how active is our amiga porter over there at scummvm?
[11:19:35] <Dominus> tomjoad?
[11:20:39] <Dominus> I think I have to write some ML posts and ask for a rc2 amiga port - would be nice to have on our download page
[11:21:22] <Kirben> Seems fairly active judging from cvs logs.
[11:22:04] <Dominus> is he in the scummvm channel sometimes?
[11:22:11] <Kirben> I might give it a try via emulator (winuae)
[11:22:33] <Kirben> I don't know, since I don't know his nick
[11:22:49] <Dominus> and you don'T have a bot over there, right?
[11:23:22] * Dominus is trying to compile exult now
[11:23:28] <Kirben> yes lechuck
[11:23:39] <Kirben> See http://bots.enderboi.com/scummvm/
[11:23:58] <Kirben> bbl
[11:24:15] <Dominus> ok
[11:24:16] <Dominus> thx
[11:52:54] <Dominus> Kirben: little error in readme.win32 you wrote http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mingw/bunutils-2_12_90-20020518-1.tar.gz
[11:53:08] <Dominus> should be http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mingw/binutils-2_12_90-20020518-1.tar.gz
[11:53:25] <Dominus> note the binutils/bunutils mistake
[11:53:55] <Dominus> I also get an error compiling:
[11:54:48] <Dominus> -c -o zip.o ./files/zip/zip.c, ...) failed
[11:58:56] <Kirben> can you paste the complete error ?
[11:59:30] <Dominus> one moment, closed the console already
[12:00:13] <Dominus> I fixed the text in readme.win32 (you also refered to the binutils..html... stuff in the extract order)
[12:00:50] <Kirben> thanks
[12:02:06] <Dominus> my problem may be related to me having all the compile stuff in the mingw dirs but it worked befor you changed stuff with the makefiles
[12:04:50] <Kirben> actually the bunutils bit wasn't a mistake
[12:04:58] <Dominus> no?
[12:05:20] <Kirben> See http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2435&release_id=90402
[12:05:23] <Kirben> I thought I had done a copy and paste.
[12:06:01] <Dominus> oops, you are right
[12:06:48] <Dominus> an error with their release, I guess :-)
[12:08:23] <Dominus> I fixed it, should I comitt?
[12:08:37] <Kirben> already commited
[12:09:32] <Dominus> still compiling...
[12:09:48] <Dominus> accidently I started a clean install
[12:09:52] <Dominus> sorry
[12:11:35] <Dominus> process_begin: CreateProcess((null), cc -DVERSION=\"1.1.0cvs\" -DEXULT_DATADIR=\
[12:11:35] <Dominus> "data\" -DDEBUG -DSIZEOF_SHORT=2 -DSIZEOF_INT=4 -I./imagewin -I./shapes -I./file
[12:11:35] <Dominus> s -I./files/zip -I./gumps -I./objs -I./tools -I. -I./audio -I./conf -I./pathfind
[12:11:35] <Dominus> er -I./headers -I./usecode -I./usecode/ucxt/include -I./usecode/compiler -I./dat
[12:11:35] <Dominus> a -I./server -I./sdl/include -DUSE_EXULTSTUDIO -DHAVE_PNG_H -I./zlib-1.1.4 -DHAV
[12:11:36] <Dominus> E_ZIP_SUPPORT -c -o zip.o ./files/zip/zip.c, ...) failed.
[12:11:36] <Dominus> make (e=2): Das System kann die angegebene Datei nicht finden.
[12:11:36] <Dominus> make: *** [zip.o] Error 2
[12:11:54] <Dominus> german words: system can't find the specified file
[12:17:41] <Dominus> any idea?
[12:17:59] <Kirben> I see problem
[12:18:27] <Kirben> add cc=gcc to top of makefile
[12:18:45] <Dominus> makefile.win32 ?
[12:18:56] <Kirben> yes
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[12:21:22] <Dominus> without clean make, I get the same error
[12:21:31] <matto> Dominus!
[12:21:36] <Dominus> matto!!!
[12:21:41] <matto> hi!
[12:21:46] <Dominus> Kirben: should I do a clean make?
[12:21:49] <Colourless> hi
[12:21:52] <Dominus> hi
[12:22:00] <Kirben> a make clean should not be needed
[12:22:01] <matto> today is my first day at my new job :)
[12:22:14] <Kirben> try cvs update to be sure it is in right spot.
[12:23:27] <Dominus> now it works, I had cc in small letters
[12:24:45] <Dominus> in studio compile I get a couple of warnings:C:/Programme/Div/Curios/MinGw/include/gdk/gdkdnd.h:99:8: warning: extra tokens at end of #endif directive
[12:26:25] <Kirben> ignore it
[12:26:35] <Kirben> will get a stack of those
[12:27:17] <Dominus> ok, I just noticed and wanted to report dutifully :-)
[12:27:32] <Dominus> other than that it compiles ok
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[14:15:41] <Kirben> Colourless: what opengl headers/libs should I use with pentagram opengl ?
[14:15:56] <Kirben> performance seems a bit too slow for opengl
[14:19:03] <Colourless> what res are you running ?
[14:19:08] <Colourless> fullscreen?
[14:19:26] <Kirben> wait, just noticed I had to enable it in config.
[14:19:39] <Colourless> opengl in pentagram is pretty damn slow in high resolutions
[14:20:09] <Kirben> speed seems alright unless I switch between windows and full screen
[14:20:52] <Colourless> you can use the 'o' key to toggle opengl mode, but i don't advise you use it
[14:21:24] <Colourless> there is a bug that causes pentagram to attempt to load all the shapes into 3d card memory if you use the o key. this is really slow :-)
[14:22:50] <Colourless> also, my code isn't exactly 3d card friendly at the moment. it's just a 'test' of sorts to see if it can be made to work
[14:23:16] <Kirben> seems fine to me, other than problem I just mentioned
[14:23:45] <Colourless> chances are it's same bug as the o key
[14:25:11] <Colourless> i could be wrong though. did you start in fullscreen or did you switch to fullscreen while mapdisp was running?
[14:25:51] <Kirben> I tried both ways, start with window to full screen and start with full screen to window
[14:26:07] <Colourless> so, it's always slow with fullscreen?
[14:26:08] <Kirben> is it ok if I leave opengl enable in cvs and snapshot ? but leave it disabled in bundled config file
[14:26:33] <Colourless> uh, no. leave it disabled, i don't want it enabled by default at the moment
[14:26:46] <Kirben> no, only slows down after I switched between.
[14:27:40] <Colourless> that's good that it's only after you switched as I know what the problem most likely is :-)
[14:28:23] <Colourless> try running at 800x600 and tell me how it runs
[14:29:55] <Kirben> with scalling off ?
[14:30:12] <Colourless> it would be a good idea to turn scaling off with opengl
[14:31:44] <Kirben> speed still seems very good.
[14:32:35] <Colourless> heh. what cpu and card?
[14:34:01] <Kirben> Celeron 850 GeForce 2MX
[14:34:39] <Colourless> probably the GeForce with it's hardware tnl
[14:34:55] <Colourless> in 800x600 things really slow to a crawl for me in opengl
[14:37:34] <Kirben> Thatis a real bonus than, I rarely use the hardware tnl on card.
[14:38:05] <Kirben> Will the new Pentagram code be opengl too ? or software only ?
[14:38:43] <Colourless> it will most definitely be opengl
[14:39:48] <Colourless> i should probably test out the speed of pentagram on another machine i've got here that's got a geforce2mx in it
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[15:40:21] <wjp> woohoo! last exam done :-)
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[15:54:58] <Dark-Star> Hi
[15:58:07] <Dark-Star> If I do a "cvs update" in my pre-RC2 exult source tree, will I get the stable branch or the development branch?
[15:58:32] <Colourless> developerment branch
[15:59:05] <Dark-Star> ok thanks.
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[16:15:28] <wjp> anyway, now that I finally have tons of free time available, it's time to tie up some loose ends...
[16:15:37] <wjp> let's start with a simple homepage for pentagram
[16:16:24] * wjp wonders what to do with it
[16:16:30] <wjp> copying the exult homepage sounds tempting :-)
[16:17:27] <wjp> might be a nice idea to put most of the doc/ dir online too, at this stage of development
[16:23:59] <wjp> hm, we didn't have a logo yet, did we? :-(
[16:26:26] <Colourless> no logo yet
[16:55:31] * wjp wonders what e-mail Nadir replied too
[16:55:34] <wjp> must've been an off-list reply
[18:25:04] <Colourless> which email?
[18:25:30] <wjp> the last on "memory saving idea"
[18:25:37] <wjp> Tristan replied to Jeff
[18:25:51] <wjp> but I don't have any emails from Jeff in that thread
[18:30:03] <Colourless> you should have
[18:30:18] <Colourless> jeff's sent 3
[18:30:59] <Colourless> but, i haven't gotten any from the mailing (despite the fact the email address is in the header)
[18:58:22] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[19:03:28] <Dominus> I'm back
[19:03:42] <wjp> wb
[19:03:48] <Colourless> wb
[19:03:50] <wjp> how's your hand doing, btw?
[19:04:07] <Dominus> quite ok, I just saw my doctor to check on it
[19:04:30] <Dominus> and she put awy with the bandage and now I only have a huge ....
[19:04:42] <Dominus> band-aid? (don't know the word)
[19:05:05] <Dominus> but I can move my hand now again
[19:05:11] <Dominus> type and move the mouse
[19:05:30] <Dominus> I didn't expect to become so good at left-moving the mouse
[19:07:24] <Dominus> so, does anyone knoe hoe to set the path for digital music? <digital music>?
[19:07:45] <wjp> <music>?
[19:07:54] <wjp> not sure
[19:08:34] <Dominus> simon's reply was a bit harsh...
[19:10:00] <Colourless> Dominus: was a little
[19:10:16] <Colourless> s = get_system_path("<DATA>/music/" + s);
[19:10:18] <Dominus> :-)
[19:10:54] <Dominus> so the path can't be set individually, right, only global?
[19:10:58] <Colourless> yep
[19:11:13] <Colourless> must be in a music dir under data
[19:11:28] <Dominus> ah
[19:11:57] <Dominus> so simon hasn't yet made it configurable for the individual games...
[19:12:47] <Colourless> nope
[19:13:23] * Dominus wonders why he asked the same thing twice :-)
[19:50:28] <Dominus> ah, as I noticed on the forum there is a question about volume curve being set to f in the unstable branch - I wanted to ask this for a couple of days but always forget...
[19:50:44] <Colourless> f?
[19:51:12] <wjp> yes... f...
[19:51:15] <wjp> I just read too
[19:51:20] <wjp> strange
[19:51:33] <wjp> it's 16.00000 for me, though
[19:51:37] <Dominus> running the usntable exult once set it to this
[19:52:01] <Colourless> snprintf issue
[19:52:04] * Dominus wonders what a usn table is...
[19:52:23] <wjp> usn table? what context?
[19:52:32] <Dominus> <Dominus> running the usntable exult once set it to this
[19:52:33] <Colourless> it seems out version of snprintf doesn't support floating point
[19:52:42] <Colourless> s/out/our/
[19:52:47] <wjp> heh
[19:55:08] <Colourless> * The following is specifically NOT supported:
[19:55:08] <Colourless> * - flag ' (thousands' grouping character) is recognized but ignored
[19:55:08] <Colourless> * - numeric conversion specifiers: f, e, E, g, G and synonym F,
[19:55:08] <Colourless> * as well as the new a and A conversion specifiers
[19:55:39] <Colourless> what should I do?
[19:56:20] <wjp> hacking it in looks like it could be annoying
[19:56:36] <wjp> round it?
[19:56:38] <Colourless> yes very
[19:56:53] <wjp> what kind of precision do you need?
[19:57:21] <Colourless> not much :-)
[19:57:33] <Colourless> probably just 1/100
[19:57:44] <wjp> multiply all values by 100?
[19:57:54] <Colourless> that will break things
[19:57:56] <wjp> of course, backward compatibility will be 'broken'
[19:57:57] * wjp nods
[19:58:16] <Colourless> i know
[19:58:32] <Colourless> %d.%02d
[19:58:46] <Colourless> i 'hack' it
[19:58:57] * wjp nods
[19:59:02] <wjp> sounds good
[20:00:46] <wjp> I wonder how much money lilo is getting through these 'ads'
[20:15:51] <wjp> should Ctrl-Alt-M start exult studio in winME?
[20:16:11] <Dominus> yeah
[20:16:15] <Colourless> yes... but it wont with the RC2 release (exult studio support not compiled in)
[20:23:04] <wjp> Dominus: 'disbale' ES support? ;-)
[20:23:08] * wjp fixes that
[20:23:17] <Dominus> he he
[20:23:51] <Dominus> and intorduced...
[20:27:16] <Dominus> nice answer :-)
[20:27:30] <wjp> :-)
[20:28:07] <Dominus> it's about time they learn what the difference between stable/unstable is :-)
[20:32:07] <Colourless> and why do you say that?
[20:33:19] <Dominus> so everybody knows what to expect from the unstable branch
[20:33:30] <Dominus> bugs en masse
[20:33:37] <Dominus> but also beautifull enhancements...
[20:41:48] <Dominus> and because today, I should keep my mouth shut, or at least not say anything judgemental...
[21:10:46] <Dominus> argh, just when I recompiled Exult :-)
[21:24:59] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[21:25:25] * Darke returns. 'Morning'. *grin*
[21:26:00] <Colourless> hi
[21:26:51] <Dominus> good morning
[21:35:08] <wjp> morning
[21:39:20] <Colourless> time to go
[21:39:31] <wjp> night
[21:39:35] <Darke> Bye.
[21:39:40] <Colourless> cya
[21:39:41] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("no comment")
[21:39:45] <wjp> hm, I have to go too, actually
[21:39:47] <wjp> bye
[21:39:58] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[21:51:35] <Dominus> I'll be off now as well
[21:51:38] <Dominus> bye
[21:51:44] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
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[22:20:31] <sbx> hi
[22:22:18] <Darke> Hi.
[22:22:36] <sbx> You scared everyone off Darke?
[22:22:45] <sbx> except matt-o
[22:26:19] <Darke> Apparently. *grin*
[22:29:41] * Darke was about to regale them with his exciting tales of daringdo getting the debugging usecode in TGWDS1 v1.21 to work correctly with disasm/fold. Oh well. *grin*
[22:30:00] <sbx> fold?
[22:30:42] <Darke> The decompiler. I need to find some more inventive names for things. *grin*
[22:33:45] * Darke called the file 'fold.cc' because originally he was just trying to see how difficult it was to 'fold' the three opcodes that consist of all the data for a 'call/calli' function call, back into a single function call. Then decided to see how difficult it was to try and create the proper parameters for said function, and then it kind of went downhill from there. Fast. *grin*
[22:38:49] <Darke> So now I can say things like, how intrinsic 0x6F in Remorse is actually called like this: `this->unknown_006F()` and it returns a byte. *grin* Of course the output currently looks _nothing_ like that, but hopefully soon...
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[22:40:55] <Roman-> hi
[22:41:14] <Darke> Hi.
[22:41:26] <Roman-> whats the good word
[22:41:57] <Darke> Hmm... that pharlap dos extender has quite a few parameter switches. I wonder if we'd be able to fiddle with them to get Remorse to work on a machine with more then 128Meg of ram...
[22:42:27] <Darke> I would guess the word would be 'exult', or possibly 'ultima', given the channel. *grin*
[22:42:56] <Roman-> mmm...possibly
[22:46:03] * Darke blinkblinks. It looks like crusader.exe has an imbedded mouse driver from the strings inside it. I suppose that's one way of getting around people forgetting to load a mouse driver.
[22:46:13] <Roman-> that game is great
[22:46:35] * Darke has never played it. It looks fun though.
[22:46:46] <Roman-> aww man, it was the game during its time
[22:46:54] <Roman-> no remorse and no regret
[22:46:56] * Darke has been meaning to finish setting vmware up to actually play it.
[22:47:19] <Roman-> hey what ever happened to lindows
[22:47:21] <sbx> hm
[22:47:26] <sbx> it still is the game!
[22:47:26] <sbx> damn
[22:47:34] <Darke> I never heard a peep about it in .au. *grin* I only ever remember seeing it on the shelves maybe three years later as a budget product.
[22:47:36] <sbx> i must have played constantly for 3 days last weekend
[22:48:06] <Roman-> my personal fav from back in the past is gladiator
[22:48:10] <Roman-> that or genderwars
[22:49:04] <Darke> Crusader commandline options: -debug, -setver, -vesatest, -asylum, -warp, -skill, -mapoff, -egg, -demo. Weird. There doesn't appear to be a '-record' flag like there is in u8.
[22:49:05] <Roman-> of course u7 isn't in the past, because I never stop killing townies in that game
[22:49:22] <Roman-> why is that weird?
[22:49:40] * Darke wonders if what the debugging output would look like if you ran it with -debug when trying to play it with too much ram. Might give a hint as to the problem.
[22:50:17] <Roman-> that could be why its there
[22:50:25] <Roman-> then you could always look up the problem on the net
[22:50:33] <Roman-> I am sure you aren't the first with the problem
[22:50:42] <Darke> Roman-: The record/demo are a pair of options. The record dumps everything you do in the game into a 'demo' file, and the -demo option plays it back. Colourless & I figure it must have been for 'demo purposes' when they were demonstrating the game to the upper-ups.
[22:50:43] <sbx> only ones i knew about were -warp -skill -egg
[22:50:53] <Roman-> oh yeah, I know that
[22:51:01] <Roman-> I wasn't thinking about demos
[22:51:14] <sbx> huh
[22:51:17] <sbx> u8 has a demo?
[22:51:21] <Darke> AFAIK, there's no 'solution' to the 'too much memory' problem. I've searched everywhere.
[22:51:40] <Darke> sbx: No. You can create one using the 'record' option. *grin* Fiddle a little with them.
[22:51:49] <sbx> well, thats what i meant
[22:51:50] <sbx> im tired
[22:51:57] <sbx> im going to do that with exult
[22:52:08] <sbx> make it record and play demos
[22:52:17] <sbx> even though everyone i talked to is uninterested :P
[22:52:41] <Darke> AFAIK, it just records any changes to ingame datastructures to disk as a 'block' of memory, then just blats them back into memory to 'play' it. It's about as ineligant as the savegame 'feature'. *grin*
[22:53:33] <sbx> thats pretty good
[22:53:36] * Darke is vaguely interested, it's just 1) he doesn't really have much of a use for it and 2) It's likely to be something very non-trivial to do. *grin*
[22:53:36] <Roman-> please...demos are soo much better than the save game feature ;)
[22:53:55] <sbx> you want it to be able to do what the player did originally... so that the person watching can stop the demo and start playing from that point
[22:53:56] <sbx> like zsnes
[22:54:16] <Darke> AFAIK, you can't interrupt it in u8.
[22:54:26] <Roman-> you can't interupt it in hl
[22:54:34] <sbx> i know
[22:54:38] <sbx> about hl
[22:54:44] <sbx> i watched a demo of Super metroid in zsnes where the person went all through the game
[22:54:57] <sbx> and at the end i took over and finished myself :)
[22:55:01] <Roman-> trhat much time on your hands huh
[22:55:18] <sbx> you can finish that game in 15 minutes
[22:55:25] <sbx> in the demo anyway, ive never been able to
[22:55:52] <Roman-> 15 minutes??? isn't that called shareware
[22:56:15] <sbx> Hmm, I guess you've never played. :)
[22:56:39] <Roman-> nope...I was busy playing u7 and any rpg on snes
[22:57:00] <sbx> does zelda3 count as an rpg?
[22:57:16] <sbx> i did something similiar with a demo of that
[22:57:20] <Roman-> eh, kinda
[22:57:29] <Roman-> more like ff3
[22:57:35] * Darke can't remember the last shareware game he played that he played for only 15 minutes. Then again, the last shareware game he played was a 'RPG', "Castle of the Winds", he probably played it almost as much as U7.
[22:57:36] <Roman-> well, I gotta go
[22:57:44] <Darke> Bye.
[22:57:52] <sbx> bye
[22:58:04] <sbx> only demo i saw of ff3 was somebody beating kefka :)
[22:58:05] <Roman-> no the last shareware I played was doom2
[22:58:17] <Roman-> gotta jet
[22:58:24] <-- Roman- has left IRC ()
[22:58:45] <Darke> s/doom2/doom/ IIRC doom2 was never shareware. *grin*
[22:59:35] <sbx> lol Darke
[22:59:39] <sbx> i think he knows what he meant to type :)
[23:00:01] <sbx> doom2 was shareware
[23:00:04] <sbx> i have doom2 se
[23:00:22] <sbx> i remember the screen at the end telling me if i didnt pay for it i would go to hell
[23:01:28] <Darke> Weird. I just remember a magazine interview with Carmak at the time where he was mentioning something about there not being a shareware version of it being released since doom 1 was the 'demonstration' of it. I know I never saw a shareware version. *grin*
[23:02:26] <sbx> quake was shareware also
[23:03:01] <Darke> http://doomworld.com/files/shareware.shtml This has only shareware 'doom' not 'doom2'.
[23:03:45] <Darke> It may be a coverdisk version you've got. *grin*
[23:03:55] <sbx> ill have to look at it
[23:04:04] <Darke> *nod* Quake and Doom1 _definately_ had shareware versions of them.
[23:06:09] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[23:06:20] <sbx> yo
[23:06:38] <Fingolfin> yo
[23:06:43] <Darke> Hi.
[23:11:00] <sbx> bye
[23:11:03] <-- sbx has left IRC ("sleep")
[23:11:04] * Darke wonders if the usecode debugger is still enabled in Remorse1.21, since they forgot to remove the usecode debugging, they may have forgotten to remove the debugger too.
[23:11:05] <Darke> Bye.
[23:11:24] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")