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[19:51:31] <frob> Hello
[19:55:00] <frob> I am thinking of Forking Exult and moving the project to github. Mostly to see that can spur some involvement. I wanted to know if this is worth my effort. I wanted to know if the people that are involved would have an issue with that. I have read the forum and posted in the thread, but when I saw that there was an irc channel I wanted to bring it up here.
[20:06:44] <wjp> I'm not sure I follow your reasoning
[20:10:43] <wjp> but if you want to work on exult, and prefer to work in git (who doesn't :-) ), you're welcome to do that in a github repo
[20:57:07] <frob> @wjp isn't that a case in point for my reasoning?
[20:57:32] <frob> go to where the people are, SourceForge is a grave yard
[20:58:39] <frob> Do we have a list of contributers and their github account usernames?
[21:13:02] <wjp> I think you're severely overestimating the effect a detail like repository hosting has
[21:14:54] <wjp> if you want to draw people in, write code :-)
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[21:34:31] <Dominus> frob, Exult was losing momentum close to stand still waaaayyyyy before github was anywhere
[21:35:27] <Dominus> frob, there are already a couple of mirrors and oneminor fork on github
[21:53:24] <frob> I understand all that, and I am not expecting massive up swing just because of a move to github. I expect the issue is much more that my generation is likely the last that even knew Ultima was a thing when it was a thing and my generation is getting older.
[21:54:27] <frob> But at the same time, I would like to contribute from time to time, and even 10 years ago sourceforge was a clumsy solution.
[21:55:28] <frob> What I would like to do is start a github group for exult and add the contributors to it. Then add the repo to it. Then add a clone of the site as a github page to it.
[21:57:04] <frob> But I want the people that are still here to continue to be involved, I don't want to step on toes by doing any of this.
[21:58:16] <Dominus> *I* think if *you* do it, you will just alienate the left over devs
[21:58:27] <Dominus> alienate is probably expressed much too strong :)
[21:58:42] <Dominus> two repositories is not the right way
[21:59:03] <frob> that is what I want to avoid and why I am here on irc before making any movement
[22:02:53] <Dominus> the reasonings in the thread are still valid. Moving off SF will make everything less smooth, except for those that can't use SVN for some reason
[22:03:07] <frob> two repositories isn't ideal, and isn't a solution. The eventual solution is full movement. I don't want to see the project linger on till eventual silent death.
[22:03:43] <frob> I have seen many projects move to github. It isn't the smoothest, but it does work.
[22:04:09] <frob> this involves moving from svn or other git hosts.
[22:04:20] <frob> not involves, includes
[22:04:44] <Dominus> the move svn->git is the least of the problems, that's not much
[22:04:45] <frob> by reasoning, do you mean 1,2 and 3?
[22:06:41] <Dominus> well, so far we have a homepage on SF, mailinglist on SF, a useful tracker on SF, repository on SF
[22:08:21] <frob> aside from the mailing list (which could me moved to mail chimp for free, if need be) all of that is available on github
[22:09:08] <Dominus> useful tracker?
[22:09:12] <frob> along with automated test, ci, and the homepage support is much better.
[22:09:46] <frob> the tracker is useful if managed.
[22:10:01] <frob> it also gives wiki and doc pages
[22:10:06] <wjp> all these things are secondary to people actually working on the project itself
[22:10:29] <wjp> the infrastructure they/we use should be determined by the people actually using it
[22:11:01] <frob> it should also be determined by the people that want to work on it.
[22:11:27] <wjp> hypothetical people are actual people?
[22:11:31] <frob> the sideloading happening on the installers should be enough
[22:11:34] <wjp> s/are/or/
[22:12:10] <frob> yes, hypothetical people are actual people. A move to gitbug has come up more than once.
[22:12:52] <wjp> would you contribute code if we moved to github?
[22:13:11] <wjp> do you know anybody for who us being on SF is a blocking issue?
[22:13:12] <frob> yeah, I would
[22:13:30] <wjp> great, so start a github repo and contribute code :-)
[22:14:24] <Dominus> frob, https://github.com/alagner/Exult is an almost up to date fork
[22:14:38] <Dominus> which had two or three changes
[22:14:52] <Dominus> https://github.com/rofl0r/exult is a mirror
[22:15:17] <Dominus> https://github.com/litchie/exult-ios <- is the iOS fork which I'm contributing to
[22:15:52] <frob> All that this does is prove that people would contribute more if the project moved to github
[22:16:03] <frob> one or two changes
[22:16:16] <frob> two or three changes
[22:16:26] <frob> did they ever get merged?
[22:16:37] <Dominus> frob, actually, it proves to me that except for Alagner, no one has worked on anything
[22:16:47] <Dominus> the iOS port is not mergable
[22:17:14] <frob> with the exception on projects that cannot be merged.
[22:17:57] <Dominus> so, that leaves *ONE* other guy on github...
[22:18:45] <Dominus> so, go ahead, fork and contribute :)
[22:18:53] <Dominus> prove us wrong
[22:19:06] <wjp> yup, would be great
[22:19:28] <Dominus> who knows we *might* actually one day move the repository to git (be it github or elsewhere)
[22:19:35] <frob> I am sorry, I didn't mean to argue or be combative
[22:19:52] <Dominus> yeah, you can see me knee jerking, sorry for that
[22:19:57] <Dominus> :)
[22:21:00] <frob> I am trying to help, and I am currently having a similar time moving projects from svn to git where I work.
[22:21:35] <wjp> I absolutely love git, but infrastructure is really not so important right now
[22:21:40] <wjp> code is
[22:22:08] <frob> smooth out the infrastructure and lower the barrier to entry.
[22:22:14] <frob> code will follow
[22:22:22] <wjp> no
[22:22:31] <wjp> that's not how things work :-)
[22:22:39] <wjp> not for significant efforts
[22:22:58] <wjp> the barrier to entry really isn't the repository
[22:23:11] <frob> its more the code, I know
[22:23:17] <frob> I have been reading it
[22:23:20] <wjp> it's reverse engineering, the existing code base, knowing the games like you mentioned, etc
[22:23:37] <frob> It will be a week of looking through things before I would be able to contribute anything useful
[22:24:15] <frob> you said something about a useful issue tracker. Where is it?
[22:24:25] <frob> nm found it
[22:25:07] <wjp> anyway, please don't take our scepticism the wrong way. We'd love to see new activity and contributions, and if you want to do that in a git repository, please do
[22:25:14] <frob> In all honesty, you all should be applauded to keeping this project alive for so long.
[22:25:44] <frob> there are bugs in the bug tracker that date back to 2002
[22:25:48] <Dominus> what wjp said, I'm just a bit too trigger happy on knee jerking :)
[22:26:16] <Dominus> yes, Exult is mostly at the fine tuning without breaking everything else stage :)
[22:26:22] <frob> I work in OSS, I wouldn't still be doing it if I didn't have somewhat thick skin
[22:26:43] <frob> is there any unit testing going on?
[22:27:29] <wjp> most things are too tightly coupled for significant room for that, sadly
[22:28:28] <wjp> a lot of the code was written while we were reverse engineering the games, so in hindsight things aren't as properly designed as they could be
[22:29:03] <frob> is there any legacy code from the old sprite viewer still hanging around?
[22:33:19] <Dominus> I don't think we had this
[22:33:26] <Dominus> we had this for pentagram
[22:33:46] <Dominus> exult evolved from a map viewer
[22:33:54] <frob> right
[22:33:58] <frob> that is what I meant
[22:34:07] <frob> I thought it was a sprite viewer
[22:34:28] <frob> it has been a long time since I have looked at exult
[22:35:07] <wjp> the current sprite and graphics code are from pretty early IIRC
[22:35:41] <frob> I was showing someone ultima and I was amazed that the project was still around.
[22:35:51] <frob> That is how all this came about
[22:43:07] <frob> out of curiosity, is anyone here parking the name org name exult on github?
[22:44:07] <wjp> yes
[22:44:18] <frob> good
[22:55:55] <wjp> Good night
[22:57:32] <frob> good night
[22:57:42] <Dominus> good night as well :)
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