#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Apr 2001 (GMT)

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[00:00:09] <wjp> hi
[00:01:15] <Kirben> wjp: Question, why didn't you use same pointer as original Ultima 7 for teleport cheat ? current one in exult is less accurate when choosing where to teleport too
[00:02:15] <wjp> the ctrl-alt-t one?
[00:02:33] <Kirben> yes
[00:02:46] <wjp> how does the original do it?
[00:03:10] <Kirben> wait a sec, will do screenshot
[00:05:35] <Kirben> http://io.spaceports.com/~kirben/teleport.jpg
[00:06:02] <Kirben> original teleports to exact spot pointer is pointing to
[00:06:57] <DraX> can it do levels?
[00:07:25] <wjp> what does the mouse cursor matter?
[00:08:49] <Kirben> wjp: Well current mouse pointer in exult makes it a little more difficult to choose an exact spot when teleporting due it using center point instead
[00:10:08] <wjp> hmm...
[00:10:18] <Kirben> In other words it is more easier to point a spot then center over a spot
[00:10:31] <DraX> s/more/much
[00:10:46] <wjp> not sure... the green one blocks less of the surrounding map
[00:13:01] <wjp> and you don't have the added confusion about what the 'hotspot' is, the black edge or the end of the finger
[00:15:09] <Kirben> maybe make green one smaller then to make center pointer more clear ?
[00:15:19] <Kirben> center pointer=center point
[00:15:35] <wjp> hmm.. that would require a new mouse pointer
[00:15:55] <wjp> not sure if it's worth the effort to add support for alternate cursors
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[00:28:10] <DraX> anyone have a netscape xpm?
[00:29:20] <Kirben> no
[00:31:17] <DraX> thanks anyway
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[00:37:31] <DraX> wjp, now all the bsd users can play ultima 7 :)
[00:37:41] <Kirben> wjp: Is it alright to use version 0.93cvs now ?
[00:39:24] <wjp> Kirben: yeah, I think so
[00:39:35] <wjp> DraX: netbsd working too?
[00:39:47] <DraX> wjp, i don't know about that one
[00:39:52] <DraX> wjp, i need a friend that uses it
[00:39:57] <DraX> i have netbsd/alpha friends
[00:40:01] <DraX> but no netbsd/i386 friends
[00:40:07] <wjp> :-)
[00:40:54] <DraX> wjp, release a solaris package :)
[00:41:37] <wjp> I don't know enough about Solaris to know if the binary I built would be of any use for anyone else...
[00:42:01] <DraX> wjp, in what way
[00:42:30] <wjp> libraries, anything
[00:42:49] <wjp> and besides, it builds from source without any modifications
[00:43:03] <DraX> so does freebsd
[00:43:12] <DraX> and prolly linux
[00:43:25] <wjp> yeah :-)
[00:46:26] <Kirben> snapshots updated
[00:47:45] <DraX> i think i'm gonna win the auction for the HP-HIL keyboard
[00:47:52] <DraX> and i found a 20" monitor for $65
[00:47:59] <DraX> that will work on the HP
[00:48:37] <DraX> HP-UX port, anyone? :)
[00:49:57] <wjp> :-)
[00:52:22] <DraX> and i will be getting a openbsd/sparc box soon it seems
[00:52:29] <DraX> i like porting :)
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[01:28:47] <wjp> oops... 3:30am
[01:29:06] <wjp> time for bed :-)
[01:29:08] <wjp> bye
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[08:41:45] <Kirben> Just recompile exult again and another new cvs update, happens too often.
[08:43:03] <Kirben> I wonder how much compile speed increase a cpu upgrade would give
[08:43:26] <DraX> Kirben, depends on the upgrade
[08:43:53] <Kirben> Celeron 400 currently
[08:44:05] <matt0> Kirben: those daily windows snapshots, eh? hehe
[08:44:09] <Kirben> would be upgrading to either celeron 800 or 850
[08:44:20] <DraX> Kirben, prolly a major increase
[08:44:35] <matt0> Kirben: no Athlon/Duron ?
[08:44:38] <Kirben> matt0:Well I update more than daily when possible
[08:44:53] <Kirben> I don't like VIA chipsets
[08:47:03] <Kirben> Would be upgrading motherboard at same time to from intel 440bx to intel 815ep too so memory speed will increase too
[08:47:28] <Kirben> Currently have PC100 RAM but only 66 bus
[08:47:48] <matt0> sounds like you will see a decent increase
[08:48:50] <Kirben> Shame most reviews use just game benchmarks
[08:49:22] <matt0> what's bad about that?
[08:49:54] <Kirben> Well there are other uses other computer than games...
[08:50:11] <matt0> you don't think games stress the computer enough?
[08:50:55] <Kirben> Yes some games really stress systems
[08:51:41] <Kirben> But I would have thought a simple compile test would give better rate of cpu power increase
[08:52:26] <matt0> compile test sounds good
[08:53:21] <Kirben> My complete current system info: http://members.optushome.com.au/veemon/sysinfo.html
[08:54:33] <Kirben> I think motherboard/CPU would be best next to upgrade, athough I would really like to find a legacy free motherboard
[08:54:41] <Kirben> first
[08:55:17] <Kirben> ie no ISA/parallel/serial/ps/2 or fdc
[08:56:00] <-- DraX has left IRC (bye? ..(sph))
[08:56:26] <Kirben> Anyone seen anything close to legacy free motherboard around ?
[09:03:37] <matt0> I use parallel/serial/ps2 heavily
[09:03:52] <matt0> and I don't know of a motherboard without that stuff
[09:04:13] <matt0> losing the floppy disk would be risky
[09:07:20] <Kirben> I use none of those anymore and floppy is really obselete now
[09:07:36] <Kirben> Although Win9x still seems to need a floppy drive
[09:07:48] <Kirben> only reason I keep one around
[09:08:33] <Kirben> I used to use zip drive as main replacement for floppy now I have CD ReWriter
[09:08:50] <Kirben> both can be booted off
[09:11:01] <Kirben> Even usb devices can be booted off in recent bios
[10:40:43] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[10:42:23] <matt0> Fingolfin!!!
[10:42:31] <Fingolfin> hiya
[10:42:36] <matt0> mein alt Freund!
[10:42:54] <Fingolfin> wie geht es dir? ;)
[10:42:54] <matt0> hehe... I really should use any German, it will reveal how bad it is hehe
[10:43:08] <matt0> gut, Fingolfin
[10:43:52] <matt0> kennst du Dragon's Lair?
[10:44:35] <Fingolfin> ich habe es nie gespielt. aber ich kenne es ein bisschen
[10:44:40] <Fingolfin> von früher ;)
[10:44:40] <matt0> ich habe das gemacht: http://www.xmission.com/~redflame/comparison.jpg
[10:45:07] <matt0> welche screenshot ist die beste?
[10:45:12] * matt0 winces at his German
[10:45:25] <Kirben> Where is that picture from ?
[10:45:39] <Kirben> Dragons Lair cartoon ?
[10:45:44] <matt0> it's from the dragon's lair laserdisc
[10:46:07] <Kirben> So it is a game or movie ?
[10:46:11] <matt0> it's a game
[10:46:14] <Fingolfin> game
[10:46:15] <Fingolfin> yeah
[10:46:30] <matt0> the game involves memorization and timing, that's about it
[10:46:46] <matt0> however, it captivated me when I was 8 years old
[10:46:52] <Fingolfin> the first two are the best; the first shows more details (the light is better), but the second has better colors. The others are either to dark, or have bad colors, or are blocky
[10:47:02] <matt0> ah HA!!!
[10:47:05] <Fingolfin> or unsharp
[10:47:12] <matt0> you are not the first person to give praise to the second one =]
[10:47:25] <Fingolfin> in fact, the second one is my top choice ;)
[10:47:32] <matt0> the second one was made with my video capture card <grin>
[10:47:45] <matt0> the top one is from the commercial DVD-ROM version
[10:47:50] <Kirben> I agree, second one is best
[10:47:51] <matt0> so it's "supposed" to be the best
[10:48:08] <matt0> I am glad to hear support for the second one
[10:48:17] <matt0> because I have made MANY captures with it of many arcade discs
[10:48:22] <matt0> http://www.xmission.com/~redflame/mpeg.txt
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[10:48:53] <Fingolfin|away> gotta run to fetch somebody, bbl
[10:48:58] <matt0> I think the third one could be the best if it was redone properly
[10:49:08] <matt0> I want to purchase a DC30...
[10:49:12] <matt0> I really like what I've seen from it
[10:49:43] <Kirben> 3 seems a bit too dark
[10:49:55] <matt0> it has the wrong tint, that's for sure
[10:50:12] <matt0> and it probably is a bit dark
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[11:03:19] <matt0> Blackthorne!!!
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[11:03:28] <matt0> lol
[11:04:48] <-- matt0 has left IRC (Laserdisc Arcade Emulation Project: http://daphne.rulecity.com , get your CVS password today! =])
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[13:11:38] <wjp> hi
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[13:41:06] <Colourless> hi
[13:41:12] <wjp> hi
[14:11:30] <wjp> I've been thinking a bit about allowing a semi-infinite nr. of savegames
[14:11:51] <Colourless> intersting
[14:11:51] <wjp> the easy way would be adding up and down arrows to the save gump
[14:12:09] <Colourless> yeah
[14:12:25] <wjp> I could also do a tree structure of some sort, would probably make it more useful
[14:13:12] <Colourless> maybe, but wouldn't the gump need to be completely remade
[14:13:29] <wjp> yeah, it would require 'some' work
[14:14:21] <Colourless> any idea how to actually do such a thing
[14:15:03] <wjp> nothing concrete yet
[14:16:47] <wjp> it would probably look a lot like a directory tree, though
[14:17:20] <Colourless> :) there are no gumps in U7 like that. It would take some programming to do it
[14:17:38] <wjp> yeah :-)
[14:18:05] <wjp> another thing some recent games do is include a small screenshot of the game
[14:18:10] <Colourless> i perseonally would just leave it flat and allow for more information in the save games
[14:18:18] <Colourless> yeah, screenshot is a great idea
[14:19:11] <Colourless> such information might include time spent in the game and maybe date and time saved. Maybe also game save number
[14:19:13] <wjp> something like a two-panel gump? with a list of names on the left, and when you click on it, you get a more detailed description + screenshot on the right>
[14:19:46] <wjp> s/>/?/
[14:20:02] <Colourless> That would probably work best. The 320x200 res is a bit limiting
[14:20:20] <wjp> true
[14:21:08] <Colourless> we should also have an option for deleting save games
[14:22:05] <wjp> yeah
[14:23:30] <wjp> hmm... there's a bug in the input of the current save gump
[14:23:47] <wjp> try a savegame name of wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[14:25:38] <Colourless> hmmm, problem :)
[14:25:59] <Colourless> now start erasing the characters :)
[14:26:15] <wjp> yeah, I noticed :-)
[14:26:22] <wjp> the letters even stay when you close the gump :-)
[14:26:47] <Colourless> the gump needs to check to see if the character you want to add will go past the length of the text field. Fairly simple to fix really
[14:27:21] <wjp> I think the original just imposed a maximum length that would make it fit for all characters :-)
[14:27:56] <Colourless> maybe. i'll go check
[14:31:05] <Colourless> u7run just froze my u7 computer
[14:31:41] <wjp> bad
[14:32:30] <Colourless> the originals had no limit. I can fill the line with i's
[14:33:07] <wjp> k
[14:34:31] <Colourless> i could put 48 i's and only 23 W's (counting might not be accruate)
[14:35:35] <wjp> 30 in exult for both
[14:37:44] <wjp> if we make the gump the full 320 pixels wide, we should have enough room
[14:39:05] <Colourless> yeah
[14:39:25] <wjp> removing the 'check' button on the left would help too
[14:40:26] <Colourless> yeah, it's not really needed
[15:07:55] <wjp> if we leave the input areas the same length, we should have room for a 80x50 screenshot
[15:09:03] <Colourless> 80x50 seems ok.
[15:09:14] <wjp> which is really tiny
[15:09:28] <Colourless> it's 25%
[15:09:32] <wjp> but still seems to show enough detail
[15:11:37] <Colourless> not much though
[15:12:18] <Colourless> it will have to do
[15:12:23] <wjp> maybe we can do 33%
[15:12:51] <Colourless> 120x75?
[15:13:03] <Colourless> thats about 38%
[15:13:09] <wjp> I'm not sure 120 will fit
[15:13:17] <Colourless> how much room is there
[15:13:29] <wjp> about 100
[15:14:07] <Colourless> that's about 31%
[15:14:16] <wjp> shrinking the boxes isn't that much of a problem though
[15:14:42] <Colourless> 30% = 96x60
[15:14:59] <wjp> 1/3 would make the scaler easier :-)
[15:15:32] <Colourless> we could do cropping you know
[15:15:51] <wjp> true
[15:19:49] <Colourless> there's not much that can be done about the detail though.
[15:20:50] <Colourless> it'd be nice to be able to have higher resolution shots at higher res's but that would be too difficult
[15:21:11] <Colourless> i say use a cropped 33% shot
[15:23:09] <wjp> sounds good
[15:23:30] <wjp> what other info should we store? date/time saved would be useful
[15:23:54] <Colourless> save count
[15:24:25] <wjp> how/where would you keep track of that?
[15:24:29] <Colourless> game time elasped
[15:24:50] <Colourless> everytime you save a game, the count increase by 1
[15:25:14] <wjp> so it would be separate for each new game you start?
[15:25:21] <Colourless> yeah
[15:25:34] <wjp> ok
[15:26:00] <wjp> converting world coordinates to a meaningful name would be interesting, but too hard I think
[15:26:45] <Colourless> yeah. you can already write a description
[15:27:11] <Colourless> another thing that might be an idea is for a party list.
[15:27:19] <Colourless> avatar name
[15:27:37] <wjp> good idea
[15:27:38] <Colourless> gender and skin colour in si
[15:28:01] <Colourless> maybe just show the shapes of the part members
[15:28:03] <wjp> maybe by a list of faces? (like in BG)
[15:28:16] <Colourless> wjp: yeah, that's the idea
[15:28:42] * Colourless ponders why he wrote wjp:
[15:28:56] <wjp> heh :-)
[15:29:24] <Colourless> got to wonder about the amount of room that can be used
[15:30:19] <wjp> yeah, I doubt everything will fit
[15:30:57] <Colourless> might be enough. I'm making a little mock up here
[15:31:18] <Colourless> not great, but 100x200 might be enough
[15:32:13] <wjp> including screenshot?
[15:32:18] <Colourless> yeah
[15:32:39] <Colourless> you'll need to use tiny fonts though
[15:35:20] <wjp> the book font?
[15:35:39] <Colourless> yeah
[15:36:18] <Colourless> here's an example shot. As you would see, it's really nothing at all to do with the idea
[15:36:19] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/example.gif
[15:36:52] <Colourless> the six pictures of dupre that i've got down the bottom would be character shapes
[15:37:04] <wjp> don't we need 8?
[15:38:01] <Colourless> SI only allowd 6
[15:38:13] <Colourless> maybe BG allowed 8, i can't remember
[15:41:50] <Colourless> no, you can only have 6
[15:41:56] <Colourless> just checked
[15:42:19] <wjp> are you sure? some people have a max. group size they want to join
[15:43:12] <Colourless> Got Myself, Spark, Iolo, Shamino, Dupre, and Sentri in the party and Julia wont join
[15:43:23] <wjp> try asking Iolo to leave
[15:43:37] <wjp> then get Julia to join, and Iolo back after that
[15:44:42] <wjp> I now have 8 party members in exult
[15:45:09] <Colourless> yeah
[15:45:11] <wjp> (me, julia, tseramed, katrina, jaana, sentri, spark and iolo)
[15:45:23] <Colourless> does allow it
[15:47:53] <wjp> brb
[15:48:04] <Colourless> ok
[15:55:10] <wjp> b
[15:55:17] <Colourless> wb
[15:56:06] <Colourless> have a look at this one
[15:56:07] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/example2.gif
[15:56:21] <Colourless> same dimentions, but more like it would be
[15:56:42] <wjp> looks pretty good
[15:57:07] <wjp> are the party members actual size shapes?
[15:57:14] <Colourless> yeah
[15:57:21] <wjp> good, makes it esaier :-)
[15:57:43] <wjp> easier, even
[15:58:56] <wjp> that's west-Monitor, right?
[15:59:00] <Colourless> yeah
[15:59:05] <wjp> just below the crematorium
[15:59:11] <Colourless> yeah :)
[15:59:17] <wjp> detail is good enough ;-)
[16:02:37] <wjp> how should we store all info/screenshots? maybe an indexfile?
[16:02:42] --> Dominus has joined #Exult
[16:02:50] <Dominus> hi guys
[16:02:55] <wjp> with in it filenames for the actual saves and the screenshot file?
[16:02:59] <Dominus> just read the exultbotlog
[16:03:00] <wjp> hey Dominik
[16:03:05] <Dominus> you are insane
[16:03:11] <Dominus> but great idea
[16:03:13] <Colourless> yeah, just add new files to the savegames
[16:03:17] <wjp> yup, and proud of it ;-)
[16:03:40] <Colourless> should read what you were saying :)
[16:04:03] <Colourless> ignore me "yeah, just add new files to the savegames" comment
[16:04:21] <Colourless> my even
[16:04:26] <wjp> "should read what you were saying" ?
[16:04:54] <Dominus> so you are going to break savegames again?
[16:04:57] <Dominus> :-)
[16:05:04] <Colourless> not if i can help it
[16:05:10] <wjp> breaking savegames is our main goal in life :-)
[16:05:24] <Dominus> I figured that allready
[16:06:20] <Colourless> I propose that we add the extra data to the existing save games as new 'gamedat' files. This will not break existing savegames because we still need to read initgame which will not contain the extra data
[16:07:23] <Colourless> i would say add two files. One being the screenshot the other being the text data (date, time, etc)
[16:07:53] * wjp nods
[16:09:11] <wjp> with the current savegame names we're limited to 100 saves
[16:09:31] <Colourless> not really
[16:09:51] <Colourless> we are using %02d right... that does allow for more
[16:10:11] <Dominus> hex
[16:10:14] <wjp> yeah, true
[16:10:34] <wjp> 2^31 should be enough
[16:10:35] <wjp> :-)
[16:11:01] <Colourless> damn, just looked, wont be that easy :)
[16:11:23] <wjp> which part?
[16:11:42] <Colourless> the game names are exult%02dSI.sav or exult%02dBG.sav
[16:12:03] <wjp> well, lowercase bg and si, but yes
[16:12:14] <Colourless> yeah
[16:12:58] <Colourless> i was just thinking that using handling exult99si.sav and exult100si.sav would be harder, but really it's not.
[16:13:27] <Colourless> si save games would be si.sav and bg savegames are bg.sav
[16:13:48] <wjp> how would we locate the savegames?
[16:14:15] <wjp> with only 10 we could just check them all, but that becomes a lot harder with millions of them...
[16:15:19] <Colourless> findfirst ?
[16:15:32] <wjp> not really cross-platform I think :-(
[16:15:53] <Colourless> well, there has got to be a way of geting a dir list
[16:16:21] <wjp> opendir/readdir
[16:16:25] <wjp> on linux, anyway
[16:18:09] <Colourless> mingw32 allows that
[16:18:27] <Colourless> not ansi though
[16:19:18] <Colourless> looking at the structure, it uses findfirst anyway
[16:19:58] <wjp> scandir is probably useful too
[16:20:48] <Colourless> don't have that :)
[16:20:55] <wjp> :-(
[16:21:08] <wjp> The scandir() function scans the directory dir, calling
[16:21:08] <wjp> select() on each directory entry. Entries for which
[16:21:08] <wjp> select() returns non-zero are stored in strings allocated
[16:21:08] <wjp> via malloc(), sorted using qsort() with the comparison
[16:21:09] <wjp> function compar(), and collected in array namelist which
[16:21:09] <wjp> is allocated via malloc(). If select is NULL, all entries
[16:21:11] <wjp> are selected.
[16:21:48] <wjp> (dir, namelist, select and compar are the parameters to the function)
[16:22:37] <Colourless> those dir functions are not cross-platform
[16:22:45] <wjp> yeah, I know :-(
[16:26:54] <Colourless> what are the limitations with using findfirst?
[16:27:08] <wjp> linux doesn't have it
[16:27:19] <Colourless> that could be a problem :)
[16:27:58] <wjp> I think we'll have to go with some platform-specific code here :-(
[16:28:58] <Colourless> yeah, we might have to.
[16:30:08] <Colourless> the code should probably go in something files/dirlist.cc or something similar
[16:30:28] * wjp nods
[16:34:39] <wjp> how should we organize this? maybe something like: pressing 's' will present a screen with 'save', 'load', and some options. the save/load screen will then be a file list on the left, with the info panel on the right
[16:35:09] <wjp> when you select 'save', an empty entry will be inserted with the screenshot/info already filled out
[16:35:27] <Colourless> In game menu perhaps?
[16:35:35] <Colourless> Load/Save one option
[16:35:39] <Colourless> Quit
[16:35:44] <Colourless> Audio Options
[16:36:08] <Colourless> Return To Exult menu
[16:37:52] <Colourless> Video Options
[16:38:40] <wjp> sounds good
[16:39:54] <Colourless> yeah
[16:42:45] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/savegump.png
[16:43:20] <wjp> don't mind my pencil-drawing or the dutch text ;-)
[16:43:39] <Dominus> looks nice
[16:43:54] <wjp> this is without shrinking the input fields
[16:44:43] <Colourless> yeah. looking good
[16:45:09] <wjp> do we only scrolling down infinitely, even when there are no savegames down there?
[16:45:15] <wjp> s/only/allow/
[16:45:22] <Colourless> i would say no
[16:45:25] <wjp> interesting typo :-)
[16:45:28] <Dominus> no
[16:45:29] <Colourless> allow one free and that's it
[16:45:48] <wjp> and if there's only 1 or 2 savegames?
[16:46:20] <wjp> just remove the rest of the input boxes?
[16:46:23] <Colourless> Have one slot called empty New Savegame or something
[16:47:01] <wjp> oh, and we need a delete button
[16:47:21] <Colourless> yeah
[16:47:36] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/example3.gif for a version of the sidebar with proper colours
[16:47:37] <wjp> that'll easily fit if we shrink the other buttons a bit
[16:47:38] <Dominus> then you have an empty slot in the middle
[16:48:14] <wjp> Dominus: ?
[16:48:33] <Dominus> you have to make sure that it is handled that say exult04bg.sav is missing
[16:48:50] <wjp> yeah, true
[16:49:05] <Dominus> donīt know if that already works in exult
[16:49:07] <Dominus> ?
[16:49:25] <wjp> you have 10 fixed slots, any one of which can be full or empty, currently
[16:49:34] <Dominus> oh, okay
[16:49:44] <Dominus> donīt mind me then :-)
[16:50:08] <wjp> but in the New and Improved(TM) one, that will be an issue, although it should be caught be the functions that get the dir.list
[16:50:18] <wjp> caught by, even
[16:50:23] <wjp> bah, my typing is going downhill
[16:50:45] <Colourless> yeah. that's true. it really shouldn't be a problem
[16:51:03] <Colourless> should we order the savegames by filename, or by date/time
[16:51:29] <wjp> hmm
[16:51:35] <Dominus> by slot number?
[16:51:43] <Dominus> Iīd prefer that
[16:52:19] <Dominus> filename that is :-)
[16:52:49] <Colourless> things will become kind of screwy though once games are deleted
[16:53:02] <wjp> or we could even sort by game & nr. of save in game
[16:53:17] <Colourless> that would be getting a little hard
[16:53:24] <wjp> yeah, but fun ;-)
[16:53:57] <wjp> but I agree it's not really practical
[16:55:12] <Dominus> isnīt it easy to assign exult00bd.sav to slot 1 exult03bg.sav to slot 3 and so on?
[16:55:14] <wjp> oh, btw, re: savegame nr's. How would we handle if someone goes back to an older savegame, and then creates new ones after that? that would create saves with the same nr., right?
[16:55:36] <wjp> Dominus: then you would get holes when you delete savegames
[16:56:19] <Dominus> right but, for me itīs more logical to go by slot number
[16:56:55] <Colourless> we want to allow for hundreds of save games. If you delete 50 throuh 90, you'd have a gap of 40!
[16:57:14] <Dominus> hm, okay, valid point
[16:57:55] <Dominus> then Iīd say go by date
[16:58:07] <Dominus> newest at the top
[16:58:40] <Colourless> The top line would be for a new savegame
[16:58:52] <Dominus> okay :-)
[17:01:18] <wjp> k, I think we covered most things
[17:01:21] <Dominus> next point would be when it gets updated - when you load the gump or also when you do some work on it (delete savegame)
[17:02:06] <wjp> also on delete, I think, otherwise it would be hard to keep track of things
[17:02:15] <Dominus> true
[17:02:55] <Dominus> on the other side, you want to delete some games and between deleting it always updates and you have to scroll down again
[17:03:08] <Dominus> could be annoying
[17:03:22] <wjp> we can just keep the list on the same place when deleting
[17:03:46] <Colourless> yeah
[17:03:47] <Dominus> just to make sure you think of it now :-)
[17:03:53] <wjp> :-)
[17:08:19] <wjp> a savegame is a flex file?
[17:09:30] <Colourless> i think so
[17:09:55] <Colourless> might not be though.
[17:10:13] <Colourless> i think it has the the filenames stored, but it still might be a flex
[17:12:47] <wjp> hmm, file structure appears to be: header, array of {start, length} pairs, files as {filename, data}
[17:12:49] <Colourless> they are flexes
[17:12:58] <Colourless> expack works with them
[17:14:11] <wjp> although the filename part is different
[17:14:24] <wjp> all the extracted object have their filename stored in the first 13 bytes
[17:14:46] <Colourless> yeah
[17:15:39] <wjp> we have to be careful not to make scanning them take too long
[17:16:57] <wjp> maybe store the info & screenshot as the first two files
[17:17:22] <Colourless> yeah, that would speed things up a bit
[17:18:53] <wjp> dinner's ready; bbl
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[17:18:58] <Colourless> cya
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[17:42:59] <wjp> back
[17:43:33] <Colourless> wb
[17:43:36] <wjp> thx
[17:44:20] <wjp> ok, with most of the design issues out of the way, we can start implementing it I guess :-)
[17:45:44] <Colourless> how does this look?
[17:45:45] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/savegump.png
[17:46:18] <wjp> excellent!
[17:46:27] <Dominus> nice
[17:46:29] <wjp> what's the little red thingie?
[17:46:34] <Colourless> slider
[17:46:39] <wjp> ah
[17:47:14] <wjp> 'voorbij' == 'past' in case you're wondering
[17:47:22] <Colourless> ah ok :)
[17:47:42] <Dominus> I guessed as much itīs vorbei in German
[17:47:52] <wjp> yeah
[17:49:06] <wjp> I guess I'll have to create some shapes out of that? :-)
[17:50:11] <Colourless> yeah. we'll need pressed shapes for the buttons
[17:50:37] <wjp> should I keep the black corners on the slider, or make them transparent?
[17:51:12] <Colourless> transparant looks ok
[17:51:22] <Colourless> i'll put up a base image for the gump
[17:54:42] <wjp> hmm... I wonder if I already fixed the problem with the origin in the gimp plugin if it is in a corner
[17:58:03] <wjp> ah well, guess I'll find out if I didn't :-)
[17:58:10] <Colourless> heh
[18:00:47] <Colourless> this is the base: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/savegump_base.png
[18:01:17] <wjp> ok, thanks
[18:01:50] <Colourless> I've marked where the buttons go. You may want to remove it or leave it, it's up to you
[18:06:12] <Colourless> i've changed savegump.png to now have a transparant slider
[18:09:44] <wjp> bah... creating buttons is boring ;-)
[18:09:53] <Colourless> hehe
[18:11:57] <Colourless> we meed to create the ingame menu/gump. I would think that it might be a good idea to bind it to the escape key by default, and to also load with the disk icon
[18:12:26] <wjp> escape is currently close-all-gumps
[18:12:46] <Colourless> ah yes it is.
[18:12:58] <Colourless> how about if no gumps are open open the menu
[18:13:09] <Colourless> but if there gumps open, close them all
[18:13:23] <wjp> should be possible
[18:13:33] <-- Dominus has left IRC ()
[18:13:39] <wjp> this would be a funny keyaction name :-)
[18:14:52] <Colourless> yeah, it would
[18:15:39] <Colourless> something like open_menu_or_close_gumps
[18:15:49] <wjp> yeah
[18:16:21] <wjp> or we could hardcode it to escape, to make sure you can always access it
[18:16:31] <Colourless> yeah
[18:17:14] <Colourless> it might be a good idea, as there should always be a way to quit, and do things like that
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[18:22:54] <wjp> ok, that was the load, save, delete, cancel buttons
[18:23:26] <Colourless> so, who want to make the menu? :)
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[18:27:08] <wjp> hey, why is everybody suddenly looking at me? ;-)
[18:27:24] <Colourless> well, everyone is me :)
[18:27:48] <wjp> ah, that would explain :-)
[18:28:35] <Colourless> for the momenet, it might be an idea to just make something temporary, and redo the menu at a later stage
[18:31:49] <wjp> argh... constantly selecting the right palette is getting annoying
[18:31:59] <wjp> maybe I should hardcode the ingame palette into the plugin
[18:32:57] <Colourless> I wouldn't think that is a good idea :)
[18:33:17] <Colourless> the Exult Menu for example doesn't use the game palette
[18:33:57] <wjp> you can still manually select a different palette, but just as the default. (the default is currently a grayscale palette)
[18:34:13] <Colourless> ah, then it might be a good idea
[18:40:41] <wjp> what should we do with disabled input boxes?
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[18:43:27] <Dominus> back
[18:46:30] <Colourless> wjp: what do you mean?
[18:46:47] <Colourless> dom: wb
[18:47:04] <wjp> some of the slots will be disabled when there's < 14 savegames. Should we just remove the boxes?
[18:49:06] <Colourless> i would think just leave them
[18:49:48] <Colourless> you wont be able to select that slot to load/save/delete
[18:51:36] <wjp> ok, I think I've got everything now. the base, the 8 buttons (pressed & raised) and the slider
[18:52:06] <Colourless> yeah
[18:52:21] <Colourless> do you agree that this stuff should go in exult.flx ?
[18:52:28] <wjp> I think so, yes
[18:53:43] <wjp> I'd better commit the lot right away
[18:55:42] <Colourless> yeah. if you want, i'll do the coding for this
[18:56:18] <Colourless> we'll need the dirlist stuff though done
[18:56:34] <wjp> yeah
[18:57:03] <wjp> I'd say a function that returns a list of filenames or savegame nr.s
[18:58:12] <wjp> as an array of const char *? an array of const char*'s would probably be easiest to interface with the rest of the functions
[18:58:23] <wjp> hmm, that was slightly double :-)
[18:59:15] <Colourless> yeah, sounds like a good idea
[19:00:38] <Colourless> i think it should just be filenames.
[19:00:48] <wjp> probably easiest, yes
[19:01:30] <Colourless> of course we want wildcards and also must be able to specify a directory as well
[19:02:30] <wjp> ideally it would take this from fnames.h, but that won't really work I'm afraid
[19:03:09] <Colourless> i wouldn't think so either
[19:06:44] <wjp> ok, committed
[19:07:45] <Colourless> i'll start work on the new save gump tomorrow.
[19:08:15] <wjp> I might do a bit preliminary work tonight
[19:08:27] <Colourless> ok
[19:08:29] <wjp> (like the mini-screenshot routine)
[19:08:48] <wjp> we should probably make it a .bmp, right? (since SDL can read/write that)
[19:08:58] <Colourless> no :)
[19:09:12] <wjp> raw data?
[19:09:24] <Colourless> just give me a sec
[19:09:35] <wjp> sure :-)
[19:09:57] <Colourless> we want it to be a shape :)
[19:10:24] <wjp> umm
[19:10:30] <Colourless> umm what?
[19:10:39] <wjp> a shape?
[19:10:56] <Colourless> yeah, so exult can easily display it to the screen
[19:12:29] * wjp takes a look at the shape class
[19:12:46] <Colourless> IMO the mini screenshot creator should produce a shapefile and put it into a buffer than can be written to a file on disk
[19:13:43] <wjp> should be doable
[19:15:29] <Colourless> ok, thanks.
[19:17:20] <Colourless> I would recommend cropping the image to 288x180 before scaling (remember not all screens will be 320x200). Then scale to 33%
[19:17:35] <wjp> yeah
[19:17:55] <Colourless> this will produce the 96x60 image
[19:17:57] <wjp> just taking every 3rd pixelline is good enough, right?
[19:18:01] <Colourless> yeah
[19:18:16] <Colourless> filtering in 8 bit is too hard
[19:18:23] <wjp> yeah, much too hard
[19:19:52] <wjp> I'll put it as the first entry in the savegame as "screen.shp", when I have the time
[19:20:06] <Colourless> ok,
[19:20:20] <Colourless> maybe at a later time someone might want to create filtering scaler for the output
[19:21:46] <Colourless> You have to make sure though, that no gumps are drawn on screen for the screenshot
[19:22:14] <wjp> yes, that's what I'm currently thinking about
[19:22:55] <wjp> we could do it everytime someone opens the game menu, or maybe between the game and save menus
[19:23:53] <Colourless> can you just write a method do write the shape from the screen buffer. I have an idea of how to do this
[19:24:34] <Colourless> you'd repain the entire screen with only the world and object, create the shape, then repain everything else
[19:27:19] <Colourless> yeah, that's what you'd have to do
[19:28:26] <wjp> agreed
[19:28:46] <Colourless> Game_window::paint(int x, int y, int w, int h) would just need to be recreated as something like paint_to_saveshape()
[19:32:33] <wjp> paint_map(x, y, w, h) should draw the right things
[19:32:41] <Colourless> yep
[19:32:55] <wjp> although it doesn't do the correct light level
[19:33:52] <Colourless> what do you mean?
[19:34:12] <wjp> the light sources carried by the party are calculated outside of paint_map
[19:34:35] <Colourless> light source will have worse problems :)
[19:34:39] <wjp> yeah, palettes
[19:34:48] <Colourless> exactly
[19:34:51] <wjp> ok, let's just ignore them
[19:34:53] <Colourless> not much can be done ther
[19:34:54] <Colourless> e
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[19:39:48] <wjp> hmm... writing a shape file isn't fun
[19:39:59] <wjp> ny
[19:40:01] <DraX> wjp :(
[19:40:31] <wjp> I think I might just 'forget' about the RLE
[19:40:39] <DraX> RLE?
[19:40:48] <wjp> run length encoding
[19:40:55] <DraX> which is :)
[19:41:01] <Colourless> a type of compression
[19:41:02] <wjp> a form of compression
[19:41:51] <wjp> oh, there's already a create_rle function
[19:41:53] <wjp> great :-)
[19:42:17] <Colourless> where?
[19:42:24] <wjp> void Shape_frame::create_rle
[19:42:31] <wjp> vgafile.cc:210
[19:43:11] <wjp> this doxygen output is pretty cool
[19:43:36] <wjp> all classes and functions are hyperlinks which lead straight to the definition
[19:56:34] <wjp> I can probably safely assume that the screen res. is at least 320x200, right?
[19:56:46] <Colourless> yes
[19:57:38] <wjp> good :-)
[19:57:58] <wjp> if larger, I'll take the center rather than scaling more
[19:58:24] <Colourless> yes
[19:58:31] <DraX> wjp, what exactly are you doing :)
[19:58:41] <Colourless> destroying exult :)
[19:58:47] <wjp> basically, yes :-)
[19:58:53] <DraX> he does that normally
[19:59:02] <wjp> we're creating a new savegame dialog
[19:59:12] <DraX> why?
[19:59:14] <Dominus> show him the gif
[19:59:18] <wjp> which stores a little screenshot along with each savegame
[19:59:21] <Colourless> look here: http://www.users.on.net/triforcet/savegump.png
[19:59:26] <Colourless> 'tis a png
[19:59:27] <DraX> like in fallout
[19:59:31] <wjp> yeah
[19:59:36] <DraX> AWESOME!
[19:59:41] <Colourless> oopps
[19:59:47] <Colourless> that url is wrong :)
[19:59:50] <wjp> triforce :-)
[19:59:53] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/savegump.png
[20:00:20] <wjp> and again, don't mind the dutch :-)
[20:00:32] <wjp> or the good mornings, for that matter :-)
[20:00:34] <DraX> a little buggy i take it :)
[20:00:44] <DraX> and the 8 avatars :P
[20:00:45] <wjp> it's just art, not from the game
[20:01:04] <Dominus> the avatars are placeholders for the companions
[20:01:13] <DraX> you could make it pictures of each of the players
[20:01:47] <DraX> and what is going to be in place of "good morning, to the" :)
[20:02:07] <Colourless> information about the savegame
[20:02:10] <wjp> info like date/time saved, elapsed gametime, ...
[20:02:17] <DraX> thats really cool!
[20:03:35] <Dominus> iīm looking forward to this
[20:03:39] <Colourless> we are also increasing the number of savegames that exult can handle
[20:03:54] <wjp> up to somewhere around 2^31, probably
[20:04:05] <wjp> although you might need a lot of memory for that :-)
[20:04:17] <Colourless> yeah. I think that you'd break your operating system before you'd get that many games
[20:04:20] <DraX> but your not going to run out :0
[20:04:33] <DraX> i always ran out in u7
[20:04:41] <wjp> yeah, me too
[20:04:49] <Dominus> it makes testing U7 easier as well
[20:05:12] <Dominus> having multiple saves of important points
[20:05:48] <Dominus> now having Exult end a game to the Exultmenu would be great as well
[20:05:53] <Dominus> but first things first
[20:06:06] <Colourless> Dom: we are doing that as well :)
[20:06:22] <Dominus> yeah, baby, make my day
[20:06:36] <DraX> add a return to exult menu on the u7 menu :P
[20:06:53] <wjp> that too :-)
[20:06:58] <wjp> but not now :-)
[20:08:17] <DraX> so why the new feature spree?
[20:08:28] <Dominus> bored?
[20:08:41] <wjp> not anymore :-)
[20:09:11] <DraX> so whats the ETA on the new features? :)
[20:09:29] <wjp> 2005 ;-)
[20:09:42] <DraX> :P
[20:09:51] <Colourless> Exult Version 1.0
[20:10:36] <Colourless> we are only up to what version 0.92
[20:11:00] <wjp> oh, we should set it to 0.93cvs
[20:11:29] <Colourless> i've modified the win32 makefiles here, but haven't commited
[20:13:06] <wjp> I'll just commit all of them
[20:13:51] <Colourless> if you want to
[20:13:59] <wjp> :-)
[20:14:02] <wjp> done.
[20:14:29] * DraX should download exult/beos :)
[20:15:07] <Colourless> look what you did :)
[20:15:08] <Colourless> rcsmerge: warning: conflicts during merge
[20:15:08] <Colourless> cvs server: conflicts found in Makefile.cygwin
[20:15:08] <Colourless> rcsmerge: warning: conflicts during merge
[20:15:08] <Colourless> cvs server: conflicts found in Makefile.win32
[20:15:23] <wjp> conflicts?
[20:15:30] <Colourless> yes :)
[20:15:45] <wjp> what did you change it to? :-)
[20:16:12] <wjp> download stats: win32: 181, source: 58, linux rpm: 23, beos: 4
[20:16:14] <Colourless> $(VERSION)
[20:16:29] <wjp> ah
[20:16:34] <Colourless> added VERSION=0.93cvs
[20:16:38] <DraX> no bsd downloads? :(
[20:16:51] <wjp> not yet
[20:17:04] <DraX> did you freshmeat release?
[20:17:58] <wjp> dunno
[20:18:25] * DraX goes to check :)
[20:18:43] <DraX> yes
[20:18:45] <DraX> someone did
[20:18:53] <DraX> jeff
[20:22:05] <DraX> well, 1 openbsd download
[20:22:29] <DraX> i wanna test it on my laptop, sense i don't have audio support in SDL
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[20:27:24] <Dominus> FINGOLFIN
[20:27:30] <wjp> hi Max
[20:27:36] <Colourless> hi
[20:27:44] <Fingolfin> hiya
[20:27:44] <Colourless> get that mac version released NOW!
[20:27:48] <Fingolfin> fullhouse ;)
[20:27:49] <Colourless> :)
[20:27:51] <Fingolfin> uhh
[20:28:08] <Fingolfin> ok ok ok.... but I'll need to reboot ;)
[20:28:21] <Dominus> donīt listen to them - they are insane and were bloody bored (until two hours ago)
[20:28:30] <Fingolfin> first I need to commit some CVS changes to another project I am working on right now, though
[20:28:33] <Fingolfin> lol
[20:28:53] <Fingolfin> btw, Sword Of Truth, volume: Soul of the Fire is half done ;)
[20:28:57] <Colourless> yep. We are well on the way to breaking exults platform portabilitiy :)
[20:29:00] <Fingolfin> I am very slow at it currently, as I am so busy ;)
[20:29:05] <wjp> I just finished Faith of the Fallen for the 2nd time
[20:29:12] <Fingolfin> I saw thatsome save gump stuff was added?
[20:29:25] <-- DraX has left IRC (Ping timeout for DraX[])
[20:29:27] <wjp> yeah, see http://www.users.on.net/triforce/savegump.png
[20:29:37] <wjp> and read today's very interesting logs
[20:29:42] <Colourless> correct url this time: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/savegump.png
[20:29:56] <Colourless> damn yto
[20:29:58] <Colourless> you even
[20:30:12] <wjp> copy-pasting from browser window is pretty fast ;-)
[20:31:49] <Fingolfin> so... when do you add a directory browser that we can use to store save games anywhere, and to locate the data files? ;)
[20:33:15] <Colourless> we first need a way to list directories in a unified method across all platforms
[20:33:23] <Fingolfin> ok, will reboot now, bbs
[20:33:42] <Fingolfin> will talk about that then - BTW, there is / was a thread on this on the SDL ML
[20:33:46] <Fingolfin> over and out!
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[20:33:58] <wjp> there are/were lots of threads about this on the SDL ML...
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[20:44:09] <Dominus> does anybody know if that face shape 297 of SI is ever used?
[20:44:51] <wjp> yikes
[20:44:55] <Colourless> i do not recall
[20:45:02] <Colourless> i don't think so
[20:45:18] <wjp> maybe an easter egg somewhere?
[20:45:33] <Colourless> could be. It's very strange
[20:45:39] <Dominus> maybe itīs the big naga boss
[20:45:51] <Dominus> especially his finger :-)
[20:45:57] <wjp> :-)
[20:46:01] <Colourless> yeah.
[20:46:42] <Colourless> compare 288 and 292
[20:47:47] <Colourless> odd, quite a few faces are repeated
[20:50:42] <wjp> ok, I can now create a RLE'd Shape_frame from the mini-screenshot
[20:50:52] <Dominus> wonder what those origin guys were up to
[20:54:38] * Fingolfin is not yet compiling exult, as he has not yet finished updating to SDL 1.2.0, so bear with him ;)
[20:55:23] <wjp> tsk tsk :-)
[20:55:48] <wjp> ok, now I have a Shape for the screenshot
[20:55:59] <wjp> now to write the Shape to a .shp-file-buffer
[20:58:01] <Colourless> the function's arguements should be (char *&buffer, int &size)
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[20:58:41] <wjp> I'm currently writing a Shape_file::save method for this
[20:58:50] <wjp> and the mini_screenshot returns a Shape_file*
[20:59:11] <Colourless> ok, then just use a datasource
[20:59:43] <Colourless> hmmm... though might have problems with a buffer datasource
[21:00:16] <wjp> hmmm, I've never used these DataSources before
[21:00:17] <Colourless> buffer must be created before the datasource is created, and must be big enough
[21:00:28] <Colourless> doesn't really matter then
[21:02:11] <wjp> when Shape_file::save is called, the buffer size is known, so it could return a BufferDataSource
[21:03:39] <Colourless> problem with that is you might want to write directly to a diskfile. Perhaps create a method for getting the size of the shapefile. Your save method then takes a datasource as it's only input
[21:05:01] <Fingolfin> hm, question: what files do I need in my distributions data directory (besides the three *.flx files) ?
[21:05:11] <Fingolfin> what about myusecode.uc ?!?
[21:05:13] <Fingolfin> is that used?
[21:05:21] <wjp> defaultkeys.txt as an example?
[21:05:28] <Colourless> that's something of jeffs
[21:05:44] <Colourless> exult doesn't use it
[21:05:50] <Fingolfin> 'k
[21:06:07] <Colourless> you should only need the flex files
[21:07:15] <Fingolfin> ok, I just wanted to get it confirmed ;) I'll do a testrun with the distro anyway
[21:07:25] <Fingolfin> argh
[21:07:38] <Fingolfin> I just discovered I forgot to commit some changes recently... <sigh>
[21:07:59] <Fingolfin> I did a fresh checkout now, anyway, based on the Alpha 3 tag...
[21:08:10] <Fingolfin> oh well, it'll all work out ;)
[21:08:38] <Colourless> i going off to bed now. I've got to be up in less than 6 hours :)
[21:08:49] <wjp> ok, goodnight
[21:09:07] <-- Colourless has left IRC (bedtime)
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[21:10:54] <Jammet> Good evening =)
[21:10:58] <Jammet> Or morning or whatever ...
[21:11:06] <wjp> evening :-)
[21:11:10] <Fingolfin> evening ;)
[21:11:19] * Jammet smiles and gives wjp a happy child hug ...
[21:11:37] <Jammet> Hej there .. =) I gotta little problem with Exult, with the sound. =) There's no sound. Um...
[21:11:59] <DraX> Jammet, join the club :P
[21:12:11] <Jammet> DraX, =[ Linux too?
[21:12:15] <DraX> nope
[21:12:16] <DraX> openbsd
[21:12:23] <DraX> openbsd and sound in exult don't get along
[21:12:43] <Jammet> I compiled timidity, got a big fat patch of midi instruments, and compiled Exult with --enable-timidty --disable-kmid and tadaaa... enjoy the silence.
[21:13:30] <Jammet> DraX, sorry =( well I know what it feels like. I just played through Trinsic and am now in Paws, no sound. It's kinda playable but would be more enjoyable with sound.
[21:13:31] <Fingolfin> did I mention that I never coded Midi playback for the MacOS port?
[21:13:37] <Fingolfin> ;)
[21:13:44] <Jammet> Fingolfin, =) No.
[21:14:15] <wjp> Jammet: did you get the XFree3/4 mess sorted out?
[21:14:27] <Jammet> Okay during the compile yesterday it said that it's including a cheapass playmidi support, but today when I enabled timidity things should improve right? I got a kernel that supports sound ... yesterday I hadn't so I didn't care.
[21:14:52] <Jammet> wjp, No I didn't, and I'm getting the feeling that nobody has an idea 'bout Xfree 4's virtual desktop and how it works =(.
[21:15:33] <Jammet> But I can ignore that, Exult is well worth it.
[21:16:09] <Jammet> Can somebody help me with Exult sound support please?
[21:16:25] <wjp> does timidity itself work?
[21:17:18] <Jammet> Yes. I tested it. I've got a vast MIDI collection.
[21:17:35] <Fingolfin> exult runs, packaging now
[21:18:36] <wjp> when you start exult, do you get any midi-related messages?
[21:19:56] <Jammet> wjp, Um, no. Just the message where it finds it's data path.
[21:20:01] <Jammet> I'll test again.
[21:20:24] <wjp> no "Internal cheapass forked timidity synthesiser" message?
[21:20:53] <Jammet> wjp, during compilation it did that once. Yesterday. I compiled again today with enable-timidity and I didn't watch as it compiled, but it finished.
[21:21:36] <Jammet> The timidity is in /usr/local/bin and it's patches and cfg are in /usr/local/share/timidity
[21:21:58] <wjp> is /usr/local/bin in your path?
[21:22:14] <Jammet> I'll check.
[21:22:30] <Jammet> Yes.
[21:22:53] <Jammet> Will it play game music or just sfx?
[21:22:57] <Jammet> Oh wait a sec.
[21:22:58] <Jammet> I think...
[21:23:10] <Jammet> Kill me, I think I had disabled it in the cfg? I'll look.
[21:24:33] <Jammet> Teehee, I got it, it's working!
[21:24:41] <Dominus> :-)
[21:24:56] * Jammet hugs everyone playfully, purrs and runs in circles around wjp =).
[21:24:59] <Jammet> YayYayYay!
[21:25:23] <Jammet> >Nuzzle< We cats just love when things sound nice. =]
[21:25:24] <wjp> heh :-)
[21:25:50] <Jammet> I gotta run now, lotsa treasure huntin' to do, lotsa places to explore, and a game to play through after years of waiting. =D
[21:25:51] <DraX> my sound still dosen't work :(
[21:26:14] <wjp> have fun :-)
[21:26:30] <Jammet> DraX, =) I'm sorry. It'll work eventually. Just you never give up, never surrender...
[21:26:46] <DraX> timidity dosen't work though
[21:27:10] <Jammet> wjp, Hakuna Matata, =) I'll show them smurfy guardian! Pounce!
[21:27:17] <Jammet> Laterz!
[21:27:21] <wjp> bye!
[21:27:23] <-- Jammet has left IRC (Leopard[Cub])
[21:27:39] <DraX> wow, thats can strange guy
[21:27:50] <wjp> hmm... looks like shapes don't store their size... problem
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[21:31:24] <wjp> wb :-)
[21:31:35] <Jammet> =) I'm baack! No I'm not done with that evil hordes yet =). Just came back for a question or two.
[21:31:54] <Jammet> wjp, =) That is, I've got big time nasty sounds in the game...
[21:32:32] <Dominus> opening doors?
[21:32:34] <Jammet> wjp, when I open a door or when I supposedly hear birdies chirping (pounce) I hear weird stuff. Annoying stuff and really loud. Um, I got that wave pack ... a few megabyes.
[21:32:48] <Jammet> Yes, when I open doors it plays something like: TUDELULULULUUU
[21:32:50] <Dominus> sorry, there is one definite answer : FAQ
[21:33:18] <Jammet> Dominus, what about jmsfx.flx?
[21:33:31] <Jammet> Isn't that supposed to replace all those weirdo sounds? I've got it there.
[21:33:31] <Dominus> you have to set the path to it in exult.cfg
[21:33:45] <Jammet> I have.
[21:33:59] <Dominus> does it say so in the error log?
[21:34:10] <Dominus> stderr.txt should say
[21:34:13] <wjp> "Digital SFX's file specified: /data/exult/jmsfx.flx"
[21:34:23] <Dominus> Digital SFX's file specified: ./data/drsisfx.flx
[21:34:23] <Dominus> Loading exult.flx...
[21:34:31] <Dominus> damn
[21:34:34] <Dominus> :-)
[21:34:37] <wjp> sorry ;-)
[21:34:40] <Jammet> =))) Like what?
[21:34:48] <Dominus> and i even had it wrong with my pack
[21:34:53] <Jammet> =) I think I can handle it or fix it somehow.
[21:35:05] <Jammet> Thanks again =) Lotsa pounces
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[21:35:12] <Dominus> oh, and of course the jmsfx pack doesnīt work for SI
[21:35:20] <Dominus> no, come back
[21:36:47] <DraX> i need a freebsd box
[21:36:52] <DraX> so i can do the builds my self
[21:37:08] <DraX> i'm having to ssh to another guys box to do it right now
[21:44:35] <wjp> phew... I _think_ I've got the mini-screenshot function now
[21:45:58] <DraX> wjp, cool
[21:48:12] <DraX> hmm
[21:48:34] <Fingolfin> neat
[21:48:38] * Fingolfin is now uploadin to SF
[21:49:31] <DraX> Fingolfin, OSX also?
[21:50:44] <Fingolfin> nope
[21:51:25] <DraX> di you plan too?
[21:53:45] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (Ping timeout for Fingolfin[pD9504D23.dip.t-dialin.net])
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[22:00:34] <DraX> Fingolfin, any OSX plans?
[22:00:39] <Fingolfin> grr
[22:04:10] <Fingolfin> well
[22:04:18] <Fingolfin> I would release, but first I need to resolve some issues
[22:04:25] <DraX> like? :)
[22:04:44] <Fingolfin> is it "incoming" or "incomming" ??!? I see both spellings here. Always thought it was with a single m...
[22:04:56] <wjp> incoming
[22:05:01] <Fingolfin> the OS X window SDL opens is not brought to the top - it hides behind all other windows
[22:05:02] <DraX> incoming
[22:05:05] <Fingolfin> good
[22:05:24] <DraX> Fingolfin, thats more an osx problem
[22:05:35] <Fingolfin> I was confused - after all, I am not a native english speaker, and the guy who wrote "incommin" is from USA ;)
[22:05:44] <Fingolfin> DraX: that is a SDL problem
[22:05:51] <Fingolfin> DraX: SDL does something wrong
[22:05:54] <DraX> ya, ment sdl
[22:05:57] <wjp> Fingolfin: so? americans can't spell ;-)
[22:06:04] <Fingolfin> wjp: I know ;)
[22:06:11] <DraX> Fingolfin, i mean we spell colour color over here
[22:06:20] <DraX> so you shouldn't except anything from us
[22:06:32] <wjp> and they write except instead of accept? ;-)
[22:06:36] <Fingolfin> wjp: but hey, I at least considered the remote possible the me, the Great Lord Fingolfin, might be slightly misinformed, with all due respect to myself ;)
[22:06:44] <wjp> lol
[22:06:59] <DraX> wjp, there two different words
[22:07:06] <DraX> except is, everything but
[22:07:11] <wjp> DraX: I know :-)
[22:07:13] <DraX> and accept, is to say yes basically
[22:07:21] <DraX> if people get them confused, there stupid
[22:07:33] <wjp> <DraX> so you shouldn't except anything from us
[22:07:48] <DraX> wjp, expect :)
[22:07:56] <DraX> that was a typo
[22:08:01] <wjp> ah, ok, that's possible too :-)
[22:08:11] <DraX> and accept dosen't work in that sentance
[22:08:14] <DraX> so your faulted too :P
[22:08:20] <Dominus> http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/032/098/010413-i1.html
[22:08:39] <Dominus> anuther one of those RG interviews
[22:10:59] <wjp> how fascinating... my 1 frame shape is saved as 105 frame junk
[22:11:37] <DraX> wjp, does the sshot stuff work?
[22:11:51] <wjp> no
[22:13:18] <Fingolfin> ok, MacOS version is up on SF - now I need to update the web page
[22:14:29] <wjp> Fingolfin: I think you can remove the "Other versions coming soon" notice there too
[22:14:40] <Fingolfin> ok
[22:22:45] <wjp> wow, small package
[22:23:09] <DraX> how big
[22:23:14] <wjp> 504K
[22:23:25] <DraX> wow, smaller then fbsd
[22:24:53] <Fingolfin> hehe
[22:24:56] <Fingolfin> yeah, it is small
[22:25:05] <Fingolfin> smaller than 0.91 Alpha 2 in fact ,)
[22:25:22] <wjp> I think it's the only one that's gone down then
[22:25:56] <Fingolfin> maybe cause I got a new compiler?!? or maybe because I use a new version of the compressor app, that squeezes it down a bit more, I guess...
[22:26:56] <wjp> finally... it doesn't crash anymore :-)
[22:26:58] <Fingolfin> we should move stuff from the news page to the history page
[22:27:01] <Fingolfin> wjp: good! ;)
[22:27:12] <wjp> and the shape created is the right size too
[22:27:23] <wjp> it's just filled with junk :-(
[22:27:41] <wjp> maybe I scanned one buffer vertically and the other horizontally while scaling
[22:28:01] <Fingolfin> I'll reboot to OS X, bbs
[22:28:04] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (42)
[22:28:55] <wjp> hmm... even more junk now
[22:29:24] <Dominus> ok, Iīm off now, going to watch the latest Voyager Episode now (719 Q2)
[22:29:27] <Dominus> :-9
[22:29:31] <Dominus> )
[22:29:34] <wjp> which is that?
[22:29:35] <DraX> Dominus, it's not that good
[22:29:45] <DraX> wjp, q's son gets left with janeway
[22:29:47] <Dominus> youīve seen it?
[22:29:52] <wjp> did you pass Unimatrix Zero already?
[22:29:55] <DraX> Dominus, ya, on thursday
[22:29:59] <DraX> wjp, oh ya
[22:30:05] <wjp> in that case: no
[22:30:06] <Dominus> iīm just that much of a Star trek fan
[22:30:17] <wjp> I've seen all the voyager they showed here
[22:30:28] <Dominus> Iīve downloaded a lot (all)
[22:30:28] <DraX> Dominus, i've seen every episode of voyager atleast twice :)
[22:30:29] <wjp> problem is they're stuck at Unimatrix 0, part 1
[22:30:47] <Dominus> the ending of Unimatrix is...
[22:30:52] <Dominus> wonīt tell you
[22:30:52] <wjp> #*&%(#
[22:30:53] <DraX> Dominus, lame
[22:30:58] <wjp> good :-)
[22:31:01] <Dominus> downloading?
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[22:32:02] <Dominus> drax: ?
[22:32:20] <DraX> Dominus, the end of unimatrix 0
[22:32:22] <DraX> is lame
[22:32:29] <Dominus> :-)
[22:32:34] <Dominus> you are right
[22:32:44] <wjp> the 1st part was quite good
[22:32:49] <Dominus> iīm glad they donīt do that much borg eps anymore
[22:33:01] <DraX> i like the borg
[22:33:04] <Dominus> 1st part was great
[22:33:08] <matt0> Dominus!!!
[22:33:11] <DraX> but voyager really made amess of it
[22:33:14] <Dominus> matt0
[22:33:29] <wjp> no spoilers please :-)
[22:33:44] <Dominus> drax: i recently watched the 1st ep the Borg were shown
[22:33:47] <wjp> hey Matt
[22:33:54] <matt0> wjp: what are you up to? =]
[22:33:55] <wjp> Dominus: from TNG?
[22:33:56] <Dominus> and they were a completely different race
[22:33:59] <matt0> wjp: time for bed soon? hehe
[22:34:07] <Dominus> wjp: yep
[22:34:09] <DraX> Dominus, borg was great until 7of9 lame along
[22:34:16] <Dominus> :-)
[22:34:20] <DraX> s/lame/came
[22:34:22] <wjp> intentional typo? :-)
[22:34:22] <Dominus> sheīs sexy
[22:34:36] <Dominus> but gets on my nerves
[22:34:40] <DraX> Dominus, i know
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[22:35:13] <Dominus> the last Voyager ep is supossed to feature the borg queen once more
[22:35:57] <Fingolfin> really?
[22:35:58] <Dominus> www.section31.com
[22:36:00] <Fingolfin> dominus: I have missed all recent Voy eposiodes
[22:36:09] <Fingolfin> dominus: here in germany I mean
[22:36:26] <Fingolfin> last friday, I saw the first 20 mins of one, but gave up - it was just to stupid :/
[22:36:28] <Dominus> I never watched them recently - only my downloads
[22:36:36] <Dominus> which one was it?
[22:36:37] <Fingolfin> I wonder how they can write stories which are so braind dead...
[22:36:38] <wjp> yes! it's working!
[22:36:46] <Dominus> wjp: congrats
[22:37:09] <wjp> note to self: write 'w' when you mean 'w', and 'h' when you mean 'h' ;-)
[22:37:21] <Fingolfin> one of those borg kiddies they have on bord (as I discovered - didn't knew about those) was the central person. Apparantly, they discovered his parents or so...
[22:37:34] <Fingolfin> wjp: where?when?why?who?how?
[22:37:35] <Fingolfin> ;)
[22:37:57] <Fingolfin> w and h are both very important letters ;
[22:38:05] <DraX> Fingolfin, that was a bad one
[22:38:17] <Fingolfin> the episode or the joke? ;)
[22:38:23] <DraX> the episode
[22:38:25] <wjp> pick one :-)
[22:38:26] <Dominus> Fingolfin: as I said (while you were gone) the Voyager Borg eps are boring
[22:38:29] <Fingolfin> <g>
[22:38:33] <Fingolfin> okok ;)
[22:39:11] <Dominus> Drax: Iīll tell you what I think of this ep in about 50 minutes, ok?
[22:39:40] <DraX> Dominus, sure
[22:39:48] <DraX> it's cute, but it's not really that good
[22:39:58] <Dominus> okay, all see you then if you are not sleeping
[22:40:18] <Dominus> one more thing Qīs son is deLaneys (Q) real life son
[22:40:52] <-- Dominus has left IRC ()
[22:46:48] <Fingolfin> Q's sone?!?!?!?
[22:46:55] <Fingolfin> Q has a *son* ?!?
[22:47:04] <Fingolfin> where/how/why/what/when?!?
[22:48:31] <DraX> Fingolfin, it happened with another q
[22:48:40] <DraX> the first child born in the continium
[22:48:47] <DraX> he wanted to have it with janeway, but she refused
[22:48:53] <wjp> oh right, I saw that one
[22:49:55] <Fingolfin> oh my
[22:50:05] <Fingolfin> I saw all TNG & DS9, most several times
[22:50:17] <Fingolfin> but Voyager most of the time makes me sick
[22:51:10] <Fingolfin> with TNG and DS9, there were bad eps, avarage one, good ones, and great ones - with Voyage, I am often happy to find an ep to be "avarage". There are only a very few eps I'd rate "good"
[22:51:29] <Fingolfin> but I haven't seen much after season 3...
[22:51:32] <Fingolfin> maybe it changed
[22:51:48] <Fingolfin> anybody count just how many shuttles they blew? where did they get them?
[22:52:52] <wjp> or what about photon torpedoes... I could've sworn they said somewhere in the beginning they only had a few
[22:53:07] <Fingolfin> quantum torpedoes, but you are right anyway ;)
[22:53:21] <Fingolfin> or the holodeck energy... "incompatible with our normal energy". yeah sure.
[22:53:22] <wjp> the quantums were First Contact
[22:53:27] <Fingolfin> but they changed that nowadays I think
[22:53:46] <Fingolfin> wjp: they are onboard the Voyager, I am 99.99% sure
[22:53:58] <DraX> no
[22:54:05] <Fingolfin> yes ;)
[22:54:07] <DraX> voyager is photon
[22:54:10] <Fingolfin> bah
[22:54:17] <DraX> NCC1701E is quantum
[22:54:18] <Fingolfin> you only want to annoy me ;)
[22:54:37] <Fingolfin> the DS9 Defiant also had quantum, at least in the last season
[22:55:57] <Fingolfin> http://www.escalix.com/freepage/lcdrreames/voyager.html
[22:56:00] <Fingolfin> "There are several phaser arrays mounted on the outer hull, and the ship carries a complement of 38 quantum torpedoes. "
[22:56:07] <Fingolfin> ha!
[22:56:20] <Fingolfin> oh wait
[22:56:23] <Fingolfin> <sigh>
[22:56:25] <wjp> :-)
[22:56:36] * Fingolfin browses through more fan pages, all contradicting each other ;)
[22:56:51] <Fingolfin> "The Intrepid class starship "USS Voyager" was lost before quantum torpedoes
[22:56:51] <Fingolfin> entered service in the fleet so the ship carries no quantum torpedoes."
[22:57:04] <Fingolfin> let's see how many more opinions I can find ;)
[22:57:26] <Fingolfin> ok, I admit, it seems to be photon
[22:57:26] <Fingolfin> sorry
[22:57:28] <Fingolfin> but this is cool:
[22:57:30] <Fingolfin> http://www.strw.leidenuniv.nl/~jansen/st/voyager/photoncount.html
[22:57:40] <wjp> leidenuniv, yay!
[22:57:45] <wjp> :-)
[22:58:06] <Fingolfin> lol, I didn't notice ;)
[22:58:18] <Fingolfin> there are also pages on shuttles and casualities!
[22:58:19] <Fingolfin> great! ;)
[22:58:27] <Fingolfin> but the authors don't bother, of ocurse...
[23:01:31] * Fingolfin hates how "make" re-runs ./configure almost each time he makes a cvs update...
[23:01:37] <Fingolfin> compile everything, yeah :/
[23:01:42] <wjp> static guchar gimp_cmap[768] = { 0x00, 0x00, 0x01, 0x3E .... (lots of chars)... };
[23:01:49] <wjp> that fills gimp_cmap with those chars, right?
[23:01:52] <Fingolfin> could you guys cease modifiyin the makefiles every day? ;)
[23:02:06] <wjp> that's just because of the new release
[23:02:10] <wjp> oh, and the save gump :-)
[23:02:35] <Fingolfin> fills the arrays, yes
[23:02:42] * wjp wonders why it doesn't work then
[23:03:02] <Fingolfin> you can even leave the number (768) away, then it'll autocount. or better, put it in, then it'll complain if items are missing ;)
[23:03:11] <Fingolfin> at least my compiler does complain ;)
[23:03:17] <wjp> yeah, gcc too
[23:03:19] <wjp> (IIRC)
[23:04:24] <wjp> oh... wait... the palette has to be <<2'ed first
[23:04:24] <-- matt0 has left IRC (Read error to matt0[1667079149-yippy.dsl.xmission.com]: Connection reset by peer)
[23:05:36] <wjp> but then values of 0x3E8 or 0x100 seem a bit odd
[23:07:08] <Fingolfin> <isgh>
[23:07:16] <Fingolfin> life isn't easy, hu?
[23:08:47] <wjp> conclusion: palette file is broken
[23:09:16] <wjp> not that I really care, since it's only color nr. 255
[23:10:14] <wjp> time to commit some of this
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[23:43:17] <Dominus> http://www.sftv.ch/hoehl/voy.htm
[23:43:24] <Fingolfin> wb
[23:43:26] <Dominus> for more funny articles on Voyager
[23:43:34] <Dominus> mostly German, though
[23:43:35] <wjp> hi Travis, wb Dominik
[23:43:41] <Dominus> Hi gang
[23:43:45] <Kirben> Hi
[23:44:00] <Dominus> Drax: itīs not very good
[23:44:40] <DraX> Dominus, ya, it's cute, but not that great
[23:44:53] <Dominus> Q eps are always funny
[23:45:10] <Dominus> but this one doesnīt go very deep
[23:45:36] <Dominus> and itīs also just a redo a of a TNG ep
[23:45:38] <DraX> i like q
[23:45:43] <DraX> and the borg
[23:45:55] <DraX> but voyager, messed them up
[23:46:04] <DraX> ya, the one where q is made human
[23:46:12] <Dominus> i like the borg in a way but as in TNG with the Kingons
[23:46:24] <Dominus> it gets boring with time
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[23:47:50] <wjp> hey... x86 isos for darwin?
[23:48:01] <Fingolfin> yeah
[23:48:08] <Fingolfin> they finally got around re-activating that ;)
[23:48:27] <Fingolfin> OpenStep after all run on x86 and 680x0
[23:48:57] <Dominus> Fingolfin: on Sat1 ther is a TOS ep showing
[23:49:02] <Dominus> right now
[23:49:08] <DraX> section31.com is pretty cool
[23:49:12] <Fingolfin> ah, what do you think am I watching???
[23:49:29] <Dominus> :-)
[23:49:35] <Dominus> scream2?
[23:49:47] <Dominus> or Tage der Lust ?
[23:49:50] <Dominus> :-)
[23:50:43] <Dominus> Drax: section31 has a lot of information and sadly spoilers
[23:50:57] <Fingolfin> LOL, tag der lust, sure ;)
[23:51:06] <Fingolfin> no, TOS of course!
[23:51:37] <Dominus> :-)
[23:52:02] <DraX> the "Races" section is really cool
[23:52:15] <Dominus> yep