#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Jan 2002 (GMT)

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[00:02:30] <[LK]> Uhm
[00:02:39] <[LK]> I have 3 fellowship thingies..
[00:05:11] <Dominus> [LK]: you really should get a walkthrough and start again. what you are doing seems to be the quick and dirty way... .-)
[00:48:49] --- Amy|sleep is now known as Amy
[00:48:49] <-- [LK] has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[00:49:52] <Amy> I'm pretty sure there's only two ways to kill LB.
[00:50:02] <Dominus> :-9
[00:50:20] <Dominus> I seem to dimly remember another way...
[00:50:51] * Amy has this bizarre urge to install Wine and see if U9 works.
[00:51:01] <Dominus> he he
[00:51:07] <Amy> Well, no.
[00:51:17] <Amy> I have htis urge to install Wine and see if U9 works as well as it did in Windows.
[00:58:43] <Amy> Though, someday, I should play through U7.
[00:59:13] <Dominus> I think playing through U7 is more important and maybe nicer :-)
[01:02:19] <Amy> Yeah.
[01:02:27] <Amy> But I like to laugh at U9.
[01:02:42] <Dominus> he he
[01:02:50] <Amy> Instead of learning from U8, they took everything about it that was bad, stripped out what was still good, and made something worse.
[01:03:03] <Dominus> it is quite nice with the dialog patch
[01:03:09] <Amy> Hmm?
[01:03:13] <Amy> Dialog patch?
[01:03:20] <Dominus> www.fansforultima.com
[01:03:25] * Amy looks.
[01:03:47] <Dominus> it adds a bit more consistency to the plot
[01:03:53] <Amy> .. Neat.
[01:04:00] <Amy> The plot was pretty broken, initially.
[01:04:50] <Dominus> the problem is that the people doing the patch were restricted to the original length of the dialogs
[01:05:01] <Dominus> and of course speech is not recommended with the patch
[01:05:09] <Amy> Of course.
[01:05:21] <Amy> The voice acting was bad, anyway.
[01:05:32] <Dominus> wanna paarty?
[01:06:26] <Amy> .. Show me your wares.
[01:07:20] <Dominus> I actually started a new game a while back with the dialog patch but then got bored again, playing this stupid game
[01:07:28] <Dominus> all looks and no brain :-)
[01:14:59] <Dominus> got to go now. see you
[01:15:14] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
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[07:26:21] * Wumpus waves to amy and the probably-not-here matto
[07:27:28] <Amy> WHEEE!
[07:27:54] <Amy> I'm reading JPMorris' anti-walkthrough of Serpent Isle.
[07:29:35] <Wumpus> hehe, i've seen that mentioned, couldn't get to the URL at the time though... you got the address there?
[07:32:40] <Amy> http://lightning.prohosting.com/~jpmorris/starless.htm
[07:32:43] <Amy> It's priceless.
[07:33:00] <Amy> He actually manages to break the game at several points.
[07:33:32] <Amy> Though, his U9 stuff is almost enough to make me want to try installing the game.
[07:39:11] <matto> Wumpus: hey
[07:49:59] <Amy> Wheee.
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[08:12:25] * Darke bows. "Hi."
[08:17:55] <Amy> Heyo.
[08:19:10] * Wumpus returns from reading
[08:19:14] <Wumpus> hehe :)
[08:19:27] * Wumpus bows to darke, and wows at matto actually saying something :-)
[08:19:45] <Darke> Wumpus: It is rather rare, isn't it.
[08:20:28] * Wumpus notes that there is a whole backpack full of all the endgame quest items in the Great Shrine of Balance.... which could be accessed normally except that there's scenery in the way :|
[08:24:49] <Amy> Heh.
[08:27:42] <Amy> There are a disturbing number of Ultima 'remakes' out there.
[08:28:37] * Darke nods. "In what way do you find them disturbing? Just the sheer number of them? <grin>"
[08:29:09] <Amy> No, mostly I find disturbing the /way/ they intend to go about it.
[08:29:26] <Amy> For instance, I've seen two projects with 'screen shots' that were nothing more than Dungeon Siege screenshots.
[08:29:36] <Amy> If you don't have anything to show, why bother?
[08:30:10] <Darke> Agreed. And the fact they're organising something, for a game that's currently unreleased, that they know almost nothing of the capabilities of.
[08:30:22] <Amy> Yeah.
[08:30:30] <Amy> So far, only /one/ project shows any project of the set.
[08:30:36] <Amy> Er, promise.
[08:31:27] <Amy> Interestingly enough, some of the people working on this stuff are obviously talented.
[08:31:35] <Amy> The Ultima 1 remake looks nice.
[08:32:01] * Darke nods. Agreed, on both counts.
[08:32:05] <Amy> Claims to be using a new engine, but it looks disturbingly like U9.
[08:32:41] <Amy> I had a thought, earlier.
[08:33:07] <Amy> What's to keep an exult-like engine from doing 90-degree rotations?
[08:33:18] <Amy> So that a little more can be seen.
[08:33:44] <Darke> So you can see what is currently hidden 'behind' walls?
[08:34:01] <Amy> Yeah.
[08:34:17] <Darke> Lack of artwork, AFAIK.
[08:34:20] <Amy> I mean, it wouldn't be hard to do simple one-for-one substitutions of objects, as needed.
[08:34:36] <Amy> Most things can be flipped or dropped in with a perpindicular replacement.
[08:35:14] <Amy> What's in the favor of the engine here is that everything represents a 'solid' object.
[08:35:27] <Amy> So dimensions aren't an issue.
[08:36:50] <Amy> I suppose the renderer makes some heavy assumptions on the arrangement of data for sanity.
[08:37:01] <Amy> Since the data itself is lacking much of the latter.
[08:37:22] * Darke guesses so, but he doesn't know enough of the internals to say for sure.
[08:37:51] * Amy briefly ponders looking at the source.
[08:38:58] <Amy> We lack a 'HACKING' document.
[08:39:38] * Darke thinks most of our documents are currently HACKING documents... <grin>
[08:39:48] <Amy> c.c
[08:40:01] <Amy> I was mostly referring to a document describing the purpose of each file.
[08:40:51] <Darke> <grin> Perhaps add that to the 'feature requests' list, and someone will start hacking one together when they're a little bored?
[08:41:05] <Amy> Sure.
[08:41:13] <Amy> In the meantime, I'm looking through gamerend.cc
[08:44:23] <Amy> Which apparently is not what I want.
[08:45:49] * Amy eyes some of the ifdefs.
[08:46:14] <Amy> I don't like c++.
[08:48:15] <Amy> Okay.
[08:48:19] <Amy> I need some education.
[08:48:26] <Amy> What is the -> operator?
[08:48:42] <Amy> Some sort of assignment?
[08:49:05] <Darke> Pointer redirection. It's the same as 'foo.bar', except if 'foo' is a pointer, you do 'foo->bar'.
[08:50:04] <Amy> Okay, I'm obviously going to need an example to grasp that.
[08:50:15] <Amy> For instance.. I'm seeing in the source:
[08:50:17] <Amy> map->read_map_data(); // Gather in all objs., etc.
[08:51:52] <Amy> Without worrying about what exactly the function call does, can you tell me what is transpiring, in relation to the -> operator?
[08:51:57] <Darke> It's the same thing as map.read_map_data(); Except, instead of map being declared as say 'Map map;', it was declared first as 'Map *map;', then had an object attached to this pointer (what the * indicates), with 'map = new Map();' (I don't know what the type of map is, I'm just guessing it's Map.)
[08:52:10] <Amy> I don't know what the . operator does, mind.
[08:52:41] <Amy> Saying 'it's the same thing as' is usually pointless, with me.
[08:52:56] <Amy> Meanwhile, I'm reading the rest of your statement.
[08:53:26] <Darke> Umm... do you know of any other object orientated programming languages?
[08:53:28] <Amy> Okay, I understand that 'map' is a pointer, and that we're doing something with it under the assumption that it's a pointer.
[08:53:51] <Amy> No. I've tried, but I've never really been able to understand any of them.
[08:54:04] <Amy> I did some work with Pascal a while back, but the OO elements always confused me.
[08:54:23] <Amy> As a quick aside, I like assembly. It makes sense.
[08:55:21] <Amy> Now, I know a lot of the CONCEPTS, I think, but I don't know the terms, or any of the language-specific dressings.
[08:56:21] <Darke> Ok. The basic principal is, an OO language allows you to create your own types, say like a 'unsigned int' or a 'char', except it allows for more complex types. A part of the language allows assigning 'functions' to each, like how you can add to unsigned int's together the unsigned int '+' operator is a function. You can allow your own types to have this function as well, to you can ...
[08:57:08] <Darke> ... 'add' one, 'string' or 'vector' to another, as easy as you can add two ints together with the 'foo + bar', syntax.
[08:57:18] <Amy> Okay.
[08:57:59] <Amy> So, with that concept, it'd be something like number1.add(number2) ?
[08:58:11] <Amy> Leaving out types for simplicity?
[08:58:28] <Darke> After all that preamble and confused explanation, <grin> you can also assign 'functions' to be part of an object, that allow you to reference them in the form of 'foo.bar()'. It's 'effecitavely' the same way as if you call the function bar and pass the object foo to it ('bar(foo)').
[08:58:45] <Amy> Got it.
[08:59:50] * Amy thinks.
[09:00:30] <Darke> It makes more sense, then the way I explain it. <grin>
[09:12:38] <Amy> Hmm?
[09:12:45] <Amy> What does?
[09:14:38] <Darke> General OO stuff. <grin>
[09:15:12] <Amy> c.c
[09:15:50] <Darke> Incidentally, what is that emote? Rolling your eyes? I don't encounter many people using the 'anime style' emotes. <grin>
[09:16:35] <Amy> Glancing to the side, usually with amusement.
[09:16:39] <Amy> 9.9 is rolling the eyes.
[09:20:29] <Amy> Hmph.
[09:20:31] <Amy> Okay.
[09:20:35] <Amy> There's two main ways to go about this.
[09:20:48] <Amy> I'm not sure as of yet which is better.
[09:21:17] <Amy> One is to generalize the rendering algorithm, so it can render objects in all four orientations.
[09:21:24] <Amy> The other is to munge the data before it gets there.
[09:21:34] <Amy> Problem with the first one is complexity.
[09:21:38] <Amy> Problem with the second is performance.
[09:22:16] <Amy> Rather.
[09:22:43] <Amy> The second has a higher potential performance hit. In the standard orientation case, there will be little to no performance hit, but there will be a large one in the other three cases.
[09:23:06] <Amy> The first has a constant performance hit regardless of which case, but it much smaller.
[09:24:24] * Darke nods.
[09:24:35] <Amy> Also, it's less invasive.
[09:24:59] <Amy> But that performance hit will be noticable when rotating, as for every frame it'll end up recreating the dataset.
[09:26:02] * Amy thinks.
[09:26:14] <Darke> The 'easiest' way, would be to calculate four 'tables', the first of which would be the list of all the objects in it's 'original' form, and each of the others, listing the object as it's appropriately translated counterpart. Then just pass the appropriate 'table' to the function when you call it. Theoretically minimal performance hit.
[09:26:36] <Amy> Hmm.
[09:26:44] <Amy> I see.
[09:26:56] <Amy> It's like doing matrix calculations.
[09:26:56] <Darke> This presumes there's some sort of chunklist array, that's integer referenced.
[09:27:26] <Amy> Yeah.
[09:28:36] <Amy> Who's most recently been working on the rendering algorithm?
[09:29:20] <Darke> Umm... no idea. You could look at the online cvs logs, I think they'll tell you who last modified which file.
[09:29:52] <Amy> I'm looking at the changelog, now.
[09:32:31] <Amy> I'm really confused.
[09:33:35] <Amy> Okay, there it is.
[09:36:13] * Wumpus rolsl back again
[09:38:10] * Amy hmmmms.
[09:38:21] <Amy> I think I see.
[09:38:53] <Amy> Given the nature of the data arrangement, couldn't it just be read in a different order to get the same result?
[09:39:43] <Amy> In the 180 degree case, it would (theoretically) just be reading the data backwards.
[09:40:02] <Amy> For chunks, anyway.
[09:40:52] <Amy> Object locations are just simple math, then.
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[09:43:33] <Amy> Wheee.
[09:43:56] * Amy does weird stuff to her source tree, for fun.
[09:44:59] <Nadir> hi
[09:45:15] <Amy> This ought to be interesting.
[09:45:34] <Nadir> I installed a cvs snapshot of gcc 3.1, and now I'm having trouble compiling Exult
[09:45:54] <Amy> Ick.
[09:46:38] <Nadir> hash_set and hash_map are no longer in namespace std
[09:47:14] <Amy> o.o
[09:52:12] * Wumpus wanders off to party thingie... gotta love making these things up at the last moment :)
[09:52:14] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("No windows for this server")
[09:53:13] <Amy> I can't wait to see what happens with this build of Exult.
[09:53:27] <Amy> I fully expect to see Stupid Things.
[09:53:51] <Darke> (hash_*) Weird. Any idea why not?
[09:53:54] <Nadir> Amy: finally got music going on your system ?
[09:54:02] <Amy> Nah. Never bothered setting up timidity.
[09:54:14] <Nadir> Darke: hash_* are now officially "GNU extensions". Therefore in namespace __gnu_cxx
[09:54:26] <Amy> Gay.
[09:54:33] <Nadir> gay?
[09:54:43] <Darke> Nadir: Ahh... that makes sense then.
[09:54:52] <Amy> Sorry, working on something here.
[09:56:10] * Nadir is getting Exult to compile with gcc >3.0 while merging the AmigaOS/MorphOS patches
[09:56:23] <Amy> Cool.
[09:56:32] <Darke> Ick. <grin> Good luck!
[09:56:39] <Nadir> gcc 3.1 is even stricter than 3.0
[09:56:52] <Nadir> In file included from ../gamewin.h:36,
[09:56:52] <Nadir> from Gump_manager.cc:29:
[09:56:52] <Nadir> ../vec.h: In member function `void Exult_vector<T>::remove(const T&)':
[09:56:52] <Nadir> ../vec.h:77: warning: `typename std::vector<T, std::allocator<_CharT>
[09:56:52] <Nadir> >::iterator' is implicitly a typename
[09:56:53] <Nadir> ../vec.h:77: warning: implicit typename is deprecated, please see the
[09:56:55] <Nadir> documentation for details
[09:57:34] <Amy> Sheesh.
[09:57:35] * Darke hopes that at least all these warnings he's trying to remove will help a little in the future with that sort of stuff.
[09:57:47] * Darke likes it! <grin>
[09:57:54] <Nadir> In file included from /usr/include/g++-v3/backward/iostream.h:31,
[09:57:54] <Nadir> from ucloc.cc:29:
[09:57:54] <Nadir> /usr/include/g++-v3/backward/backward_warning.h:32:2: warning: #warning This file includes at least one deprecated or antiquated header. Please consider using one of the 32 headers found in section 17.4.1.2 of the C++ standard. Examples include substituting the <X> header for the <X.h> header for C++ includes, or <sstream> instead of the deprecated header <strstream.h>. To disable this warning use -Wno-deprecated.
[09:58:27] <Darke> Cool! Perhaps I should grab the gcc3.1 version...
[09:58:36] <Nadir> gcc version 3.1 20020106 (Red Hat Linux Rawhide 3.1-0.16)
[09:58:39] <Amy> At least it's verbose.
[10:01:07] * Amy runs her new executable.
[10:02:01] <Amy> Nope, didn't work.
[10:02:05] * Amy does something else for a while.
[10:17:36] <Nadir> I'm getting segmentation faults on loading/starting a game
[10:18:58] <Nadir> Chunk_cache::set_blocked(int, int, int, int, int, int, bool) (this=0x8410fc8,
[10:18:59] <Nadir> startx=139172464, starty=278344928, endx=141207722, endy=2207, lift=0,
[10:18:59] <Nadir> ztiles=141207552) at chunks.h:81
[10:18:59] <Nadir> 81 blocked[ty*c_tiles_per_chunk + tx] |=
[10:21:29] * Darke earperks. Odd.
[10:23:11] <Amy> I certainly can't help. =>
[10:26:11] * Darke is doing some benchmarking on the file reading code, to determine which of ifstream::get() or ifstream::get(char &) is faster. <grin>
[10:56:40] <Amy> WHEE!
[11:00:40] * Amy plays with bochs, just because.
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[11:04:46] <wjp> hi
[11:07:41] <Amy> Yo.
[11:09:54] <Darke> Hello.
[11:13:34] <-- Nadir has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:14:21] * Amy grumbles.
[11:14:29] <Amy> I need a Win95 or 98 boot floppy.
[11:14:37] <wjp> you do? why?
[11:14:58] <Amy> Installing Win98 in bochs. Can't get it to boot the Cd.
[11:15:06] <Amy> So I need to sys the HD.
[11:15:22] <wjp> ah, I see
[11:15:25] <Amy> That, or just run one of the floppies with cdrom support, and run Win98 setup off of the Cd.
[11:15:37] <Amy> I found a site that has a win95b floppy with cdrom support... But it's an EXE. >.<
[11:15:48] <Amy> Which really does me very little good, in this case.
[11:15:52] <wjp> can wine handle it?
[11:16:26] <Amy> ... I don't know. I don't have any blank floppies, and I don't know how to coerce wine into writing floppy stuff to a file.
[11:17:24] <Amy> Ah. Here's a zipped one.
[11:17:51] <Amy> ...... which unpacks to an exe.
[11:20:08] <Amy> Got one, I think.
[11:22:13] <Amy> Yeah.
[11:37:22] <Darke> Useless datum: With a 300Meg file, on my machine, with a version of Read1 using ifstream::get() it takes about 67 seconds to read the entire file, whereas using the original Read1, using ifstream::get(char &), it takes about 74 seconds.
[11:38:33] <Amy> Okay.
[11:38:47] <Amy> Well, that states which one is more efficient. This helps how?
[11:40:16] <Darke> No reason. I was just rather... curious, and decided to do a bit of testing. It's like me writing that regression thing for the Read* functions last night. <grin>
[11:41:13] <Darke> Read4, same setup, the ::get() takes 59 seconds, the ::get(char &) takes 64 seconds. Perhaps a little change or two is in order. <grin>
[11:41:53] <Amy> Heh.
[11:42:31] <Darke> <grin> At least it gives me a purpose for the actual existance of the regression tool anyway.
[11:43:08] <Amy> Heh.
[11:45:58] <Darke> It also has the additional benefit of removing some casting warnings as well, which is why I actually started looking at this file... so I eventually got to what I wanted, in a somewhat round about way. <grin>
[11:46:20] <Amy> Neat.
[11:46:33] <Amy> I should go to bed in a moment.
[11:46:40] <Amy> I need to get up in, like, 5 hours.
[11:46:53] <wjp> g'night
[11:47:18] <Amy> Said I need to. Didn't say I was. =>
[11:47:46] * Darke snickers.
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[11:52:37] <Amy> Even my mighty Athlon strains under the load of bochs.
[11:53:01] <Amy> Of course, it doesn't help that I throttled down my ram a while back, thinking I had memory problems. I need to put that stuff forward again.
[11:53:57] <Amy> On the bright side, I found a win98 image, and windows setup is running.
[11:54:05] <Amy> Floppy image, that is.
[11:54:11] <Darke> Nice!
[11:54:37] <Amy> Once it starts installing, I'll probably go to bed.
[11:55:02] <Amy> Right now, it's sitll doing all the pre-install crap.
[11:55:54] * Darke nods.
[11:55:55] <Nadir> can you people update from CVS and see if everything works
[11:56:25] * Amy shies away from CVS.
[11:56:36] <wjp> that was the amiga port merge, I guess?
[11:56:39] <Darke> What have you changed? <grin> I'm in the middle of testing something at the moment.
[11:56:50] <Nadir> plus gcc 3.1 compatibility
[11:57:13] <Nadir> I'm not concerned with the Amiga stuff, but with the hash_utils.h changes
[11:57:22] <Nadir> You need to rerun configure
[11:58:46] <Darke> I'll wait a bit then. <grin> I'm editing files/utils.h, and would rather just make sure that the problems I cause are my problems. I'll get a chance to test it in about 30 minutes or so.
[11:59:12] <Nadir> wjp:?
[11:59:13] <wjp> files/utils.h? uh oh...
[11:59:23] <Amy> Heheheheh.
[11:59:30] <wjp> another full recompile... yay :-)
[11:59:36] * Darke grins.
[11:59:45] <Amy> I've been playing games with the rendering algorithm, myself.
[11:59:57] <Amy> But I don't use CVS, so nobody need fear! =>
[12:00:12] <Amy> I managed to totally break it, too.
[12:00:41] <Darke> wjp: It's to fix up all the casting mess in there that isn't using the proper static_cast<>, plus a few optomisations of the file reading functions, it's in the logs. <grin>
[12:06:13] <Nadir> s/opto/opti/
[12:07:23] * Amy ponders writing an email explaining her intentions to the list, or if she should just let people read the chat logs.
[12:07:31] * Darke knows, his fingers keep randomly spelling it either with the 'i' or the 'o', for reasons he can't understand.
[12:07:52] <Amy> Just practice. ioioioioioioio
[12:08:27] <Darke> Amy: Your intentions? To try and get exult to rotate with 4 views?
[12:08:57] <wjp> heh :-)
[12:09:00] <Amy> Yeah.
[12:09:19] <Amy> I have some more thoughts I might elaborate on later, after I wake up, assuming I ever sleep.
[12:09:38] <Darke> Feel free. <grin> I'm sure you'll get some discussion going anyway.
[12:10:05] --- Amy is now known as Amy|sleep
[12:10:14] <Amy|sleep> I better lay down while I have enough time to sleep before work.
[12:10:16] <wjp> night (again :-) )
[12:11:23] <Darke> Night!
[12:32:05] <wjp> oh, compilation finished
[12:32:09] <wjp> (wasn't paying attention...)
[12:32:23] <wjp> so it seems to work
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[13:00:26] <wjp> hi
[13:00:28] <Colourless> hi
[13:07:08] <Darke> Hello.
[13:19:04] <Colourless> wjp, the xforms in pentagram are looking great. especially now that all those 'editor' shapes are not translucent
[13:19:12] <Colourless> s/not/now/
[13:19:38] <wjp> yeah, those editor shapes look kind of cool now
[13:19:57] <wjp> I hope I have the right flag from typeflag.dat, though
[13:20:12] <wjp> there are some shapes with pixels in the [8,14] range that don't have it set...
[13:21:23] <Colourless> well, there is the case of spark in u7... the flag isn't set, but it still needs to be drawn trans
[13:21:54] <wjp> oh, I forgot to update u8typeflag.txt
[13:24:09] * Darke would rather not, remember Spark in U7 thanks... <grin>
[13:25:39] <Colourless> hopefully i'll have the sorting finished tonight.
[13:25:53] <wjp> great; looking forward to it
[13:29:47] <wjp> I also think I found the field that specifies if an object has quality/quantity
[13:30:14] <Colourless> great
[13:30:16] <wjp> the high half of byte 1 seems to be 1 for quality, 2 for quantity, 6 for containers
[13:30:48] <wjp> (a usenet post from Jason mentions that the quality field is also used as a contents pointer for containers)
[13:31:14] <Colourless> index of item in the world?
[13:31:16] <wjp> although there's no sign of that at all in nonfixed.dat
[13:31:24] <wjp> yeah, I guess
[13:32:03] <Colourless> i saw the post myself and wasn't sure of how it was supposed to work
[13:33:36] <wjp> it made some sense, but it didn't really match with the contents of fixed.dat/nonfixed.dat
[13:33:52] <wjp> (the 'next' field did, incidentally)
[13:34:42] <wjp> the 'next' fields show that objects were stored into a linked lists for each 'chunk', and that items were added to the front of the list when read.
[13:34:51] <wjp> s/lists/list/
[13:35:21] <Colourless> yeah, he said they did that
[13:35:28] <wjp> it also apparently had a fixed array of objects. the 'next' field is an index into that
[13:36:00] <Colourless> hm, perhaps then the pointers are not to the objects, but to the 'chunk'?
[13:36:24] <wjp> which pointers do you mean exactly?
[13:36:32] <Colourless> containers
[13:37:06] <wjp> the container's 'next' pointer just points to the next object in the chunk normally
[13:37:28] <wjp> but the 'quality' field is always 0, unlike what Jason said in that post
[13:37:36] <Colourless> hmm
[13:37:41] <Colourless> always?
[13:37:55] <wjp> well, I only looked at a couple of maps
[13:38:22] <wjp> it looks like we should just use the 'x' field to detect container contents
[13:39:26] <wjp> together with the 'family' I mentioned earlier
[13:40:48] <Colourless> how does that work?
[13:40:57] <Colourless> what has x got to do with it?
[13:41:27] * Nadir is upgrading to a more recent snapshot of gcc 3.1
[13:42:13] <wjp> the x coordinate is the 'depth' of an item for contents
[13:42:27] <wjp> x == 1 means it's in a container, x == 2 means it's in a container in a container, etc...
[13:42:40] <Colourless> ah ok
[13:42:54] <Colourless> so how do you work out what container to put something in?
[13:43:05] <wjp> contents immediately follow the container
[13:43:13] <wjp> in nonfixed.dat
[13:43:44] <Colourless> ah ok
[13:43:48] <wjp> so when you see a container, you start reading contents until the x value doesn't match anymore
[13:43:53] <wjp> (recursively)
[13:44:11] <Colourless> perhaps he was talking about crusader?
[13:44:27] <Nadir> what is currently possible with pentagram's display ? any special keys apart from arrows ?
[13:44:44] <wjp> hm, I can't remember him mentioning crusader in that post; only U8
[13:44:49] <wjp> Nadir: no, just arrows
[13:45:11] <Colourless> ah ok. he did mention something somewhere the they changed how containers worked in crusader
[13:45:16] <Nadir> what are those transparent boxes I see all around ?
[13:45:36] <Colourless> where abouts?
[13:45:40] <Colourless> on top of cliffs?
[13:45:55] <wjp> some probably indicate you can't pass
[13:47:02] <wjp> I'm guessing it would be pretty easy to find the "completely invisible" flag for those
[13:47:36] <Nadir> yes
[13:48:27] <Colourless> they are useful though for me. all neatly stacked, they are good for checking object sorting
[13:49:05] <wjp> heh, did you see these "reflect" shapes under mirrors? :-)
[13:49:13] <Colourless> yeah I have
[13:49:35] <Nadir> how do I choose another map ?
[13:49:43] <wjp> ./display <mapnumber>
[13:49:57] <Nadir> where mapnumber in {...} ?
[13:50:03] <wjp> 0..255
[13:50:05] <Colourless> use docs/maps.txt to find out which one to use
[13:50:16] <Nadir> ah
[13:52:36] <wjp> I think I missed a few in there, btw
[13:52:45] <Colourless> which ones
[13:53:22] * wjp cross-references against fixed.dat's contents
[13:54:03] <wjp> 33
[13:54:05] <Colourless> nadir, the 'c' key will recentre the avatar to the 'start' position on the map (the music egg)
[13:54:22] <wjp> 56
[13:54:33] <Colourless> can't find anything on 33
[13:55:07] <Colourless> 56 is like many of the other 'strangeness' maps
[13:56:41] <Colourless> in my local version i added skip lift keys and also a keys to limit the 'max shape z' size
[13:57:07] <Darke> Nadir: exult just failed to build under gcc3.0.3, when I grabbed the latest version. Want me to cut&paste the error?
[13:57:18] <Nadir> 3.0.3 ^
[13:57:20] <Nadir> sure
[13:57:28] <Darke> In file included from ../game.h:25,
[13:57:28] <Darke> from Audio.cc:37:
[13:57:28] <Darke> ../hash_utils.h:47: `hash_set' not declared
[13:57:46] * Darke guesses it's something to to with the compiler version checking.
[13:57:50] <Nadir> Indeed. You need to update from CVS, where I have committedd a fix
[13:58:03] <Nadir> Darke: no
[13:59:59] <Nadir> Darke: can you tell me what namespace gcc 3.0.3 puts hash_set in ? (top of /usr/include/g++-v3/ext/hash_set)
[14:00:17] <Nadir> under 3.1cvs it is __gnu_cxx
[14:00:27] <Nadir> previously it was std
[14:00:40] <Darke> I'm pretty sure it's under std::, I'm checking now.
[14:01:03] <Colourless> hash_set isn't actually std is it?
[14:01:08] <Nadir> no
[14:01:52] <Colourless> what advantage do hash_set and hash_map have over set and map?
[14:02:08] <wjp> speed when sizes get larger
[14:02:10] <wjp> (I guess)
[14:02:13] <Nadir> yep
[14:02:14] <Darke> Nadir: namespace std
[14:02:42] <Nadir> Darke: have you updated from CVS ?
[14:03:10] <Darke> Cutting edge, 5 seconds ago version.
[14:03:57] <Nadir> [W]ith a well chosen hash function, hash tables generally provide much better average-case performance than binary search trees, and much worse worst-case performance. So if your implementation has hash_map, if you don't mind using nonstandard components, and if you aren't scared about the possibility of pathological cases, you'll probably get better performance from hash_map.
[14:04:11] * Darke just reconfigured again to double check, and still the same problem.
[14:05:15] <Nadir> Darke: does config.h have a #define HAVE_EXT_HASH_SET 1 ?
[14:05:33] <Darke> Yep.
[14:06:06] <Nadir> oops, my bad
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[14:07:12] <Dominus> hi
[14:07:20] * Darke considers it's probably a good thing for the team members to have such... varied versions of gcc, it'll ferret out a few more bugs. <grin>
[14:07:21] <Colourless> hi
[14:07:25] <wjp> hi
[14:07:26] <Nadir> Darke: I'm committing something
[14:07:28] * Darke bows, "Hi!"
[14:07:53] <Nadir> hi dom
[14:08:02] <Nadir> Darke: update now
[14:08:02] <Dominus> Nadir: funny thing is that I wanted to ask you how the amiga/morph stuff is coming along the next time I see you :-)
[14:08:17] <Nadir> I preempted you :)
[14:08:36] <Nadir> ruediger sent me the stuff yesterday
[14:08:51] <Dominus> ah, I thought you already had it
[14:09:13] <Nadir> Dominus: aha, you thought I was slacking :)
[14:09:18] <Darke> Nadir: Cool. Looks like it worked.
[14:09:22] <Nadir> good
[14:09:41] <Nadir> (Side note: for those of you wondering, "Why wasn't a hash table included in the Standard in the first #!$@ place?" I'll give a quick answer: it was proposed, but too late and in too unorganized a fashion. Some sort of hashing will undoubtedly be included in a future Standard.
[14:09:47] <Dominus> Nadir: no, I would never think that. I thought it was more complicated and you had more pressing matters on your mind :-)
[14:09:50] <Nadir> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libstdc++/ext/howto.html
[14:09:54] <Darke> Until it hits path.cc... which looks more complicated.
[14:09:59] <Nadir> tell me
[14:10:42] <Darke> path.cc:291: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `hash_set' with no type
[14:10:43] <Darke> path.cc:291: template-id `hash_set<Search_node*, Hash_node, Equal_nodes>' used
[14:10:43] <Darke> as a declarator
[14:10:43] <Darke> path.cc:291: parse error before `;' token
[14:11:36] <Nadir> hmmm
[14:12:54] <wjp> ok... I found a couple of new flags
[14:13:14] <wjp> byte 6, bit 4: editor shape
[14:13:23] <wjp> byte 6, bit 5: only set on the flaming oils
[14:13:32] <wjp> byte 6, bit 6: non-blocking?
[14:13:50] <wjp> byte 6, bit 7: only set on the 'blue field passage gem'
[14:14:24] <wjp> umm, no, byte 5, sorry
[14:14:33] <Dominus> wjp, Colourless, my wishlist for pentagram: include the skip lift stuff from your local version :-) and perhaps als make shpdisp show the gumps file as well with a switch (I noticed it somewhere in the logs
[14:14:35] <Dominus> )
[14:15:29] <Dominus> btw, I added the savegame for the broken banquet scene in monitor to the bug tracker
[14:18:46] <wjp> feature requests? already? ;-)
[14:18:57] <Dominus> he he
[14:19:17] <Colourless> hell, i would have though he would have requested that we make it 'playable' :-)
[14:19:33] <Dominus> oh, well, I saved this for tomorrow
[14:20:41] <Colourless> how about sound :-)
[14:20:48] <Colourless> hehe
[14:21:13] <Dominus> I think sound is a bit more complicated, I won't ask for this (regarding sfx and speech)
[14:22:39] <Colourless> i am actually pretty sure that u8 uses an unmodified version of the sonarc lib. the reason why sonarcx can't decompress them is because the header is wrong
[14:22:57] * Dominus agrees
[14:23:37] <Dominus> finding a reference to sonarc.c in u8.exe confirms this somehow I guess
[14:24:20] <Colourless> not only that, the sonarc doc mention the name of the library function to decompress a 'frame' and that is also in u8.exe
[14:24:58] * Colourless curses himself for being unable to write the letter s when he is supposed to
[14:26:08] <Dominus> I think Jason Ely should give us the source :-) (not that I think he or someone else ever will)
[14:26:30] <Nadir> Darke: oopps
[14:26:39] <Colourless> there is about a 1% chance that pentagram will ever be able to directly read the compressed sounds. chances are a front end would have to be written to decompress the sounds and put them in a flex
[14:27:01] <Dominus> right
[14:27:08] <Nadir> Darke: cut'n'paste problem
[14:27:48] <Dominus> Colourless: maybe the sonarc thing is also the reason the sound/speech is so bad in NT72k/XP
[14:28:46] <wjp> nah, sonarc is just a (de)compression algo.
[14:29:33] <Nadir> Dominus: I believe that is because u8's sound library does funny things with DMA
[14:29:47] <Dominus> for crusader they used something else. the files are almost in wave format
[14:30:20] <Dominus> asfx is the header
[14:30:25] <Colourless> almost?
[14:30:56] <Nadir> ../vec.h: In member function `void Exult_vector<T>::remove(const T&)':
[14:30:56] <Nadir> ../vec.h:77: warning: `typename std::vector<T, std::allocator<_CharT>
[14:30:56] <Nadir> >::iterator' is implicitly a typename
[14:30:56] <Nadir> ../vec.h:77: warning: implicit typename is deprecated, please see the
[14:30:56] <Nadir> documentation for details
[14:31:06] <Nadir> how can I remove the previous warning ?
[14:31:41] <Colourless> how else are they different?
[14:31:46] <Dominus> Colourless: you have to guess a bit probably but the files are clearly in some sort of wave format when you look at them in goldwave
[14:32:20] <Colourless> ah ok, so the are uncomressed pcm?
[14:32:37] <Dominus> probably
[14:32:41] <Darke> Nadir: Not sure. I don't suppose the documentation actually has anything interesting to say about it?
[14:32:54] <Nadir> The implicit typename extension has been deprecated and will be
[14:32:55] <Nadir> removed from g++ at some point. In some cases g++ determines that a
[14:32:55] <Nadir> dependant type such as `TPL<T>::X' is a type without needing a
[14:32:55] <Nadir> `typename' keyword, contrary to the standard.
[14:33:17] <Colourless> i find it odd that origin went kind of backwards. u8 used a lossless compression algorithm, while ultima 9 used lossy adpcm
[14:33:58] <wjp> Nadir: it sounds like it wants a "typename" keyword there, although I wouldn't know what that is
[14:34:13] <Dominus> Colourless: when I load the crusader files with settings pcm, 8bit, mono, signed 11025 Hz they play fine :-)
[14:35:07] <Colourless> signed 8bit is a little unusual
[14:35:36] <Colourless> most 8bit is always unsigned
[14:35:55] <wjp> Nadir: ah, according to Stroustrup you have to use 'typename' to tell the compiler that std::vector<T>::iterator is indeed a type. (because of the template parameter, if I understand correctly)
[14:36:24] <wjp> "The typename keyword is required whenever a type name depends on a template parameter."
[14:36:45] * Darke ickfluffs, that does make sense in a twisted sort of way.
[14:37:09] <Dominus> Colourless: but that's what they used (i tried unsigned)
[14:37:14] <Nadir> so, where should that go ?
[14:37:31] <Darke> "typename std::vector..." I guess.
[14:37:35] <wjp> for (typename std::vecotr<T>::iterator X = begin(); X != end(); ==X)
[14:38:58] <wjp> s/vecotr/vector/, even
[14:39:56] <Nadir> that works
[14:41:08] <Colourless> will that break support for any other compiler ? :-)
[14:41:52] <wjp> argh... s/==X/++X/ too
[14:41:55] <Darke> Colourless: It shouldn't, it appears gcc was just being 'smarter' then it should be. <grin>
[14:42:08] <Nadir> no, because it's enclosed in a __GNUC__ #ifdef
[14:42:26] <Nadir> gcc is smarter ISO-wise than most other compilers
[14:42:53] <Nadir> however, it seems that precompiled headers won't make it in 3.1
[14:43:04] <wjp> strange, the #else there seems to assume that a) iterators are pointers, b) vectors are arrays
[14:43:07] <Nadir> ISO C++ that is
[14:45:55] * Darke will be disappearing for a bit, he needs to drop a hdd into his machine to test it's 'deadness'. Back soon.
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[14:46:16] <Colourless> so why didn't you just copy and paste?
[14:46:16] <Colourless> couldn't?
[14:46:16] <Colourless> wjp: how could you....
[14:46:16] <Colourless> c:\uc\pentagram\viewer\shapemanager.h(64) : warning C4800: 'int' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)
[14:46:57] * Colourless changes it to an int for now
[14:50:02] <wjp> hm?
[14:50:34] <wjp> oh, implicit cast
[14:51:31] <Colourless> binary & does not give you a bool :-)
[14:53:45] <wjp> yeah, I know. I guess I should cast it to a bool
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[14:57:10] * Darke bows, "Hello again."
[14:57:42] <wjp> wb
[14:57:45] <Colourless> hi :-)
[14:58:17] <Dominus> hi
[14:59:54] <Nadir> I'm getting crashes...
[15:00:38] <Nadir> Exult crashes during starting/loading a new game
[15:04:54] <wjp> hm, again?
[15:04:58] <Dominus> works for me
[15:05:09] <Nadir> don't know if it's gcc 3.1cvs's fault
[15:05:18] <Nadir> but I suspect it might be so
[15:05:56] <Darke> Nadir: Consistant or random?
[15:07:13] <wjp> works for me too
[15:07:18] <Darke> Me too.
[15:08:45] <Nadir> consistent
[15:08:54] <Nadir> I'm going to compile with no opt
[15:09:45] <Dominus> Colourless: how do you compile, forcing 44,1 kHz?
[15:10:22] <wjp> uh oh... /usr: no space left on device
[15:10:35] <Colourless> you need to define FORCE_44KHZ
[15:11:21] <Dominus> set EXTRA_OPTIONS= -Force_44KHZ ?
[15:12:55] <Colourless> set EXTRA_OPTIONS=-DFORCE_44KHZ
[15:13:18] <Dominus> okay, thanks
[15:14:12] <Colourless> you need to use -e on the command line for make though
[15:14:43] <Dominus> I still know this from the time you told me how to compile with midi sfx :-)
[15:14:45] <Colourless> so instead of doing "make -f Makefile.win32" you need to do "make -f -e Makefile.win32"
[15:15:04] <Colourless> opps "make.exe -e -f Makefile.win32 Audio.o"
[15:15:24] <Colourless> ok :-)
[15:15:57] <Dominus> the make.exe -e -f Makefile.win32 Audio.o if I don't make a full compile, I guess?
[15:16:31] <Colourless> yeah that will compile Audio.o
[15:16:52] <Colourless> you need to run make again to link exult.exe
[15:17:08] <Colourless> you need to delete Audio.o first
[15:17:08] <Colourless> so really, you could just delete it, then just run make :-)
[15:17:18] <Dominus> :-)
[15:17:23] <Dominus> thanks
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[15:54:36] --- Topic for #exult is: USECODE! the secret Power of Ultima 7 (and Ultima 8!) and Exult! Or how to waste $ 3,080,278 ! Vote for exult at http://linuxformat.co.uk/awards!
[15:54:36] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Fri Jan 11 14:46:43 2002
[15:54:39] <Colourless> in bg it's 127
[15:54:55] <Colourless> in SI it's 31
[15:54:57] <[LK]> but it goes up to like 30000
[15:55:07] <[LK]> if I use more it goes negative.. :P
[15:55:13] <Colourless> yes, but it wont get saved in the save games
[15:55:21] <Dominus> he he
[15:55:39] <[LK]> are all stats 127?
[15:55:46] <Colourless> i think so
[15:56:22] * Darke wonders why everyone made such a fuss at exultbot's disappearance, but has said absolutely nothing at it's reappearance.
[15:57:21] <-- Darke was kicked from #exult by Colourless (don't question our actions)
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[15:57:45] <Darke> Colourless: Speaking of which... why did you kick me? <grin>
[15:57:54] * Darke anticpates being kicked again... <giggle>
[15:58:57] <Colourless> so wjp, what would your guess be as to the usage of 'anim.dat'
[15:59:08] <[LK]> Uh..
[15:59:25] <[LK]> I grabed the stuff, but it only increased weight.
[15:59:33] <[LK]> It didnt go on armor or in backpack..
[16:00:06] <Dominus> maybe you have bag on your belt?
[16:00:24] <[LK]> Ohh... I had lots of stuff in that bag! o.0
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[16:01:50] * Dominus doesn't want to see what [LK] collected so far
[16:02:17] <wjp> Colourless: good question... it seems to contain tons of 6 byte entries
[16:02:18] <[LK]> Its filles of stupid things..
[16:02:31] <[LK]> I have 2 parrots, one fence thingy..
[16:02:35] <[LK]> lots of food stuff
[16:02:50] <[LK]> like 15 fellowship-medals (looted from people I killed ;))
[16:03:05] <Colourless> yeah. i think it might be used to to all the in game animations that aren't controlled by usecode
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[16:03:30] <wjp> there's an offset table at 0x2000
[16:04:02] <Colourless> note the bytes 4 to 7
[16:04:13] <Colourless> 00 20 00 00
[16:04:23] <Colourless> which would be 0x2000
[16:04:26] <wjp> hmm, in fact, it looks like the first 0x200 or so bytes are an offset table too
[16:04:43] <wjp> or maybe the first 0x2000
[16:04:55] <wjp> yes, that's why I think it's an offset table
[16:05:01] <[LK]> Argh
[16:05:11] <wjp> and 1 is the avatar, which is the first animated object in there
[16:05:12] <[LK]> Not I got error in it again!
[16:05:22] <[LK]> Sigh! All cheats must be remade! Ahhhh!
[16:05:56] <Colourless> ok, the offset table is for all the shapes obviously
[16:06:08] <Colourless> 0 = no animation obviously
[16:06:17] * wjp nods
[16:06:21] <wjp> the second non-zero is 73
[16:06:26] <wjp> ...which are eggs
[16:07:50] <Colourless> seems to be offset tables within offset tables
[16:09:09] <wjp> yes, the last offset in the table at 0x2000 is just before the start of the table at 0x7C04, so that matches our guesses too
[16:09:10] <Colourless> at location 0x7c04 (eggs) there is another offset table containing 2 entries, pointing to just a little further along the file (7d04 and 7d38)
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[16:19:57] <Colourless> hmm
[16:19:57] <Colourless> i guess the fireplace just cycles
[16:19:57] <[LK]> I think Im invissible..
[16:19:57] <[LK]> How do I get vissible again?
[16:19:57] <Colourless> maybe there is a flag
[16:19:59] <Darke> Take off the invisibility ring or wait for the spell to wear off?
[16:20:00] <wjp> maybe it's only NPCs, monsters
[16:20:00] <[LK]> Uhm
[16:20:05] <[LK]> I drank from a fountain..
[16:20:10] <Dominus> if you are invisible the screen is in grayshades
[16:20:14] <[LK]> yeah
[16:20:19] <Dominus> just wait a bit
[16:20:26] <[LK]> Im white, like a ghost, and screen is gray.. :P
[16:20:30] * Darke nods, it should wear off soon.
[16:20:30] <wjp> 1 = avatar, 73 = eggs, 76 = kith, 81 = that green water monster
[16:20:40] <wjp> 83 = troll
[16:20:42] <Dominus> don't drink anything yourself, always let your companioms drink first
[16:20:57] <wjp> 96 = demon
[16:22:08] <Colourless> something to do with npcs obviously :-)
[16:22:08] <wjp> 119 = skeleton
[16:22:08] <wjp> 120 = thorax
[16:22:08] <wjp> 137 = Devon
[16:22:08] <wjp> 142 = ghoul
[16:22:08] <Colourless> care to stop? :-)
[16:22:08] <[LK]> Are gems any good? =D
[16:22:08] <wjp> 143 = what's her name (executioner)
[16:22:28] <wjp> Colourless: ah... ok... :-)
[16:22:32] <Dominus> [LK]: yeah you can sell them
[16:23:06] <[LK]> how much?
[16:23:24] <Dominus> don't know
[16:23:44] <Dominus> doesn't matter the way you seem to be playing right now
[16:23:53] <Darke> 50 gold, IIRC, but I haven't done that in... umm... years.
[16:24:14] <Colourless> robbing the mint is more fun :-)
[16:24:35] <[LK]> Bleh!
[16:24:41] <[LK]> Can I use more than one backpack?
[16:24:48] <[LK]> Nothing will fit in mine anymore..
[16:24:49] * Dominus has no real use for the money you get for selling things. either I cheat anyway or I loot all the places (including stealing)
[16:25:10] <Dominus> [LK]:as wjp said yesterday, time to clean out your bag
[16:25:24] <Colourless> i never buy arms and armour in u7
[16:25:43] <Dominus> [LK]: make the roof of the castle britannia your headquarter and leave stuff there
[16:25:50] <wjp> reagents are probably the only useful thing you can buy
[16:25:53] <[LK]> ARGH! The magic boomerang I found disapeared!
[16:26:11] <Dominus> [LK]: known bug, it is fixed in the snapshot
[16:26:13] <wjp> LK: known bug, I think it has been fixed recently
[16:26:24] <wjp> :-)
[16:27:40] <[LK]> wow
[16:27:46] <[LK]> I found mundo gold! :P
[16:28:14] <Dominus> [LK] as you are cheating anyway how about using ctrl-m ?
[16:28:48] <[LK]> Uhm..
[16:28:50] <[LK]> How?=P
[16:29:06] <Dominus> hm, by pressing it? :-)
[16:29:06] <wjp> by pressing&holding ctrl and then pressing m? :-P
[16:29:18] <[LK]> it just says "item created"
[16:29:20] <Dominus> wjp: beat you again to it :-)
[16:29:35] <Dominus> [LK]: look into your backpack
[16:29:36] <wjp> Dominus: I should stop looking at anim.dat, I guess... it slows me down ;-)
[16:29:38] <[LK]> object*
[16:30:14] <[LK]> Bah
[16:30:20] <[LK]> The bow disapeared too.. :P
[16:30:28] <[LK]> Avatar doesnt like magic items, huh?
[16:30:37] <wjp> the _bow_ disappeared? hmm, that's weird
[16:30:50] <[LK]> lol
[16:30:52] <[LK]> it didnt
[16:30:58] <[LK]> it appeared UNER the backpack thingy
[16:31:01] <[LK]> lol
[16:31:09] <[LK]> not under, but down from it
[16:32:27] <Dominus> [LK]: don't want to be rude, but you crack me up :-) so that'S how U7 is played from a total newbie :-)
[16:32:59] <Dominus> you seem to be lost in a feature crazyness :-)
[16:33:03] <[LK]> lol
[16:33:25] <[LK]> how do I open the stupid locked chest?
[16:33:51] <Dominus> either with a key or a lockpick or by hacking at it
[16:34:12] <[LK]> my keys dont work at it..
[16:34:12] <Dominus> the same way you would open a chest in the real world
[16:34:37] <Dominus> hacking=attack it
[16:34:38] <[LK]> but how often do you see pink-white chests?
[16:34:38] <[LK]> :P
[16:34:48] <wjp> Colourless: it looks like the 6 byte entries form frame sequences, of length [1st byte in 4byte header]
[16:34:48] <Colourless> ??
[16:34:59] <Dominus> pink-white chests?
[16:35:07] <[LK]> yeah..
[16:35:10] <Darke> Dominus: A newbie with people who know Far Too Much about the game advising him on how to do things in some of the more... estoric ways. <grin>
[16:35:39] <[LK]> its looks like me when Im invissible..
[16:36:29] * Darke is about to commit, and attempt to _not_ break cvs for everyone. <crossesclaws>
[16:36:39] <Colourless> you sure it's not a 2 byte header?
[16:37:04] <wjp> no
[16:37:58] <Colourless> hm, ok, because i'm seeing some things like this HH 01 00 XX XX XX XX 02 00 XX XX XX XX
[16:38:15] <wjp> but no 03 00 after that, right?
[16:38:17] <[LK]> DAMN!
[16:38:18] <Colourless> s/HH/HH HH/
[16:38:23] <[LK]> Now that magic chect disapeared!
[16:38:26] <[LK]> chest
[16:38:39] <Colourless> hm, no 033
[16:38:43] <[LK]> You know in the cave near the city?
[16:38:43] <Colourless> 03 even
[16:38:51] <[LK]> Where is magic boomerang and magic bow
[16:38:56] <wjp> Colourless: it does look like there could be a 2 byte trailer
[16:38:57] <[LK]> and there are 4 red dragons
[16:39:06] <[LK]> and theres a chest..
[16:39:13] <[LK]> how do I open that chest?
[16:39:23] <[LK]> It disapeared now thou.. :P
[16:39:34] <Dominus> with your lockpicks I guess
[16:39:41] <wjp> after you turned visible again or after you attacked it?
[16:39:54] <[LK]> I cant attack it..
[16:39:59] <[LK]> I tried both as vissible and invissible
[16:40:08] <[LK]> doesnt work.. but its gone now.. lol
[16:40:27] <Dominus> you can attack it, just go into combat mode and doubleclick it
[16:40:32] <[LK]> I tried..
[16:40:35] <Dominus> but now that it is gone somehow...
[16:40:35] <wjp> Colourless: last bytes of the avatar's first block are "03 XX XX XX XX XX 06 02"
[16:40:39] <[LK]> it doesnt do anything..
[16:40:53] <[LK]> I know I can attack it, cause I attack all doors to make them disapear.. :P
[16:42:17] <wjp> hmm, I still think it's a 4 byte header and no trailer
[16:42:35] <Colourless> yeah 4 byte make more sense
[16:43:06] <wjp> framenum would then be the first byte of the entries
[16:44:21] <wjp> the first sequence of the avatar's first block is A-B-C-D-E-F-10-11-A
[16:44:39] <wjp> which is the avatar walking (or maybe running) north
[16:45:24] <wjp> second sequence of 9 is walking NE (14-..-1B-14)
[16:46:11] <Nadir> dake: I wonder what paranoid warnings is going to tell me under gcc 3.1
[16:46:39] <Colourless> wjp: note how for the first avatar sequence they all end in 2
[16:46:52] <Colourless> all, looking at it, they all end in 2
[16:47:07] * wjp nods
[16:47:56] <Colourless> no idea what it all means though
[16:48:11] <Colourless> there are probably flags such as when to play a footstep sound
[16:48:13] <wjp> yow... shpdisp is using 400Mb of memory
[16:48:24] * wjp thinks there might be a memory leak somewhere :-)
[16:48:56] * wjp wonders if he ever deletes anything in there
[16:49:28] <Colourless> no you don't :-)
[16:49:36] <Colourless> sh = new Shape(data, shapenum);
[16:49:39] <wjp> yeah
[16:49:41] <Colourless> doesn't have a delete anywhere
[16:49:44] <wjp> I now delete it after displaying it
[16:50:06] <Darke> Nadir: No idea. <grin> paranoid-warnings are pretty much every warning I could concieve of being useful, gcc3.1 could be... interesting.
[16:50:31] <wjp> Colourless: the first block of the avatar's offset table contains all the 'walking' animations. (all 8 directions)
[16:50:59] <wjp> second block has the 'running' animations, it seems
[16:51:09] <Nadir> how many frames x direction ?
[16:51:12] <Colourless> i guess that it's the same for everynpc
[16:52:30] <wjp> Nadir: avatar has 8 frames/dir for both walking and running
[16:52:46] <wjp> Colourless: yes, but the order doesn't seem to be the same
[16:53:02] <Colourless> it's not?
[16:53:14] <wjp> the thorax has the NW frames first
[16:54:45] <wjp> thorax also reuses the walking frames as running shapes
[16:55:05] <wjp> all the thorax' 6 byte entries end with 0x22, not 0x02, btw
[16:55:16] <Colourless> you know, everything in this engine seemed to make sense... until now ;-)
[16:55:23] <wjp> s/all/some of/
[16:56:22] <Dominus> maybe it's only different for npcs and monsters
[17:03:30] * Darke decides to disappear now. "Night all."
[17:03:40] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
[17:08:15] <[LK]> Why does my picks brake all the time? =D
[17:08:32] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[17:08:46] * Wumpus drops by just for the sake of dropping by at some ridiculous hour of the morning :-)
[17:09:00] <wjp> *grin*
[17:09:06] <wjp> hi
[17:09:06] <Colourless> wjp, you relize your memory leak fix causes other poblems :-)
[17:09:11] <Colourless> hi
[17:09:13] <wjp> Colourless: it does?
[17:09:17] <Wumpus> (just came back from mini-party thingie ;-p)... `lo all
[17:09:26] <Colourless> try changing frames :-)
[17:09:31] <wjp> oh, oops
[17:09:52] <Colourless> i'll commit a 'real' fix. delete the shape before creating the new one :-)
[17:09:56] <Nadir> Wumpus: morning ? it's 18.00 here
[17:10:07] <Wumpus> 4:11am here :)
[17:10:57] <[LK]> Can I train myself in lockpicking (read: cheat)?
[17:11:48] <wjp> LK: dexterity is used for lockpicking
[17:12:40] <wjp> There are some chests/doors that can't be picked, though
[17:13:07] <[LK]> But I got 127 dex!
[17:13:29] <Wumpus> and some of the chests don't give the `strange that didn't work' thing, which is damn annoying :P
[17:13:30] <[LK]> But theres alot of chests in this cave, and I found 12 lockpicks on ground..
[17:13:31] <[LK]> :P
[17:13:58] <wjp> try pressing Ctrl-D while the mouse cursor is on a chest
[17:14:05] <Wumpus> aaanyway, sleeepies for me.... yes, it was frivolous to come by, but hey :P
[17:14:07] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("Zzzz")
[17:14:18] <Colourless> oi!
[17:14:46] <wjp> oi?
[17:14:53] <Colourless> ctrl-d
[17:15:01] <[LK]> IS there a bank?
[17:15:12] <[LK]> I have like.. well.. 5k gold in backpack
[17:15:21] <Colourless> there is no bank
[17:16:11] <Colourless> ah, so ctrl-d will dump the objects on the ground :-)
[17:16:32] <wjp> yeah
[17:16:39] <Colourless> doesn't work on npcs :-)
[17:16:52] <wjp> NPCs are never really deleted
[17:16:55] * Nadir is leaving
[17:16:57] <Nadir> bye
[17:16:58] <Colourless> cya
[17:16:59] <wjp> bye
[17:17:02] <-- Nadir has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
[17:17:58] <[LK]> Hmm
[17:18:10] <[LK]> Cant you make a cheat that gives you a key to everything?
[17:18:30] <Colourless> just use ctrl-d :-)
[17:18:42] <Colourless> and delete everything that's in your way :-)
[17:21:31] <Colourless> hmm, they used quite a bit of shape reflection
[17:21:49] <Colourless> many of the npcs only have n, ne, e, se and e shapes
[17:21:58] <Colourless> s/and e/and s/
[17:22:43] <Dominus> [LK]: use the roof of castle britain as your bank, and there is a key that opens all doors and chests that don't require a special key
[17:23:53] <Colourless> i never noticed they did that either. you'd think with npcs such as the executioner who has the axe over one of her shoulders that the flipping of frames would be noticable
[17:25:15] <Dominus> I think I noticed some skipping motions on some npcs but then this is something you tend to forget
[17:25:58] <Dominus> not that you noticed much of the npcs movement in the game except for the avatar
[17:26:26] <Dominus> I never followed them around their schedules like in U7
[17:34:14] --- Dominus is now known as Dominus|away
[17:34:28] <Colourless> after running u8, it's really quite noticable really :-)
[17:34:49] <Dominus|away> he he
[17:35:08] <Dominus|away> like I said it's one of the things you tend to forget
[17:35:24] <Dominus|away> but now I'm really away :-)
[17:35:26] <wjp> IIRC, the bartender's wooden leg switches from left to right as well
[17:35:31] <Colourless> hehe
[17:35:35] <Colourless> even better :-)
[17:36:27] <Colourless> i wonder if jenna's sword does too
[17:42:58] <[LK]> I love this game! :D
[17:43:07] <[LK]> But where does all the guards come from?
[17:43:16] <[LK]> I attacked the king
[17:43:21] <[LK]> and he
[17:43:32] <[LK]> And there just came like 50 guards.. P
[17:43:32] <Colourless> hehe
[17:44:08] <Colourless> you can't kill him... (at least not normally)
[17:47:48] <[LK]> im talking to a three headed dragon.. :P
[17:47:49] --> sbx has joined #exult
[17:47:49] <sbx> hello
[17:47:49] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[17:47:52] <Colourless> hi
[17:48:02] <[LK]> hello :P
[17:49:16] <sbx> [LK]: in Drasnik I went to a prison by teleporter, and also found a town that started with H(by going south along the east coasT)
[17:49:48] <sbx> Dransik, whatever its called :
[17:49:50] <sbx> )
[17:52:26] <[LK]> Hmm
[17:52:28] <[LK]> Hothbra?
[17:52:32] <sbx> yeah
[17:52:37] <[LK]> Okey.. :)
[17:52:48] <sbx> only one person was there
[17:52:49] <[LK]> Thats the second city, as I cll it.. :P
[17:52:51] <sbx> It was early
[17:52:53] <sbx> oh
[17:53:16] <[LK]> Jeel is the first town I saw, otbra seccond, and Varg or Vrethpool third.
[17:53:22] <[LK]> Korelth was not there when I started
[17:53:34] <[LK]> and then it came, but it looked VERY different from now.. :D
[17:53:54] <sbx> Is anything accessible from Jeel by road?
[17:54:27] <[LK]> Nopp.
[17:54:48] <[LK]> hang on
[17:56:15] <sbx> I only stopped in briefly. I need to go. :-)
[17:57:01] <[LK]> Ohh. :)
[17:57:21] <[LK]> I killed the thre headed dragon in U7
[17:57:21] <[LK]> What I do now?
[17:57:30] <sbx> Get the stuff
[17:57:32] <wjp> get the caddellite he's guarding
[17:57:37] <sbx> Cadellite
[17:57:39] <sbx> Caddellite
[17:57:41] <[LK]> It only dropped a body, that contained a body, that contained a firebolt?
[17:57:43] <sbx> heh
[17:57:53] <sbx> Its not on him
[17:58:49] <[LK]> But theres only an empty room
[17:58:56] <[LK]> exept for the three bodies and the firebolt
[17:59:09] <sbx> [LK]: The Black Gate is really fun if you play it in plot-order/doing the occasional sidequest. Much more fun than doing it "freeform" as you seem to be doing, IMHO. :P.
[17:59:46] <[LK]> Oooh... I just run around and kill everyoen I see.. :)
[17:59:59] <sbx> x_x
[18:00:30] <sbx> Well I'll see you all later.
[18:00:33] <sbx> :O
[18:00:35] <-- sbx has left IRC ("...")
[18:00:35] <[LK]> bye
[18:06:32] <[LK]> Where do I get that.. uh,.. caddelite stuffP?
[18:07:32] <wjp> walk south from the Hydra
[18:07:45] <[LK]> Duh
[18:07:46] <[LK]> lol
[18:07:48] <[LK]> thanks
[18:10:54] <-- Colourless has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[18:12:34] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[18:12:44] <[LK]> uh
[18:12:51] <[LK]> and with that blue thing i do...?
[18:14:38] * Dominus|away is briefly here
[18:14:45] <Dominus|away> forget the caddelite
[18:14:59] <Dominus|away> you don't need it unless you are playing seriously
[18:15:39] <Dominus|away> You should really consider playing it seriously as there is only so much fun had with U7 otherwise
[18:16:42] <Dominus|away> it's good getting accustomed to the way of the game like this but then you should really play it
[18:16:53] * Dominus|away is away again
[18:19:38] <[LK]> “key.. P
[18:19:46] <[LK]> I need to get a "grip" of it first.. :P
[18:19:51] <[LK]> But how do I sell stuff?
[18:19:58] <[LK]> I want to sell weapons.. :/
[18:27:52] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:28:03] <wjp> you can't sell weapons
[18:32:00] <[LK]> *I was jailed! o.0
[18:35:39] --- wjp is now known as wjp|studying
[18:45:59] <-- matto has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[18:46:22] --> matto has joined #exult
[18:49:59] <[LK]> My Exult crashed again!
[18:50:26] <matto> [LK]: have you debugged the crash yet?
[18:50:36] <[LK]> No?
[18:50:40] <matto> oh
[18:50:48] <[LK]> How do I do that? =P
[18:51:00] <matto> with a debugger
[18:51:01] <matto> :)
[18:51:21] <wjp|studying> if you haven't restarted exult yet, you can take a look at stderr.txt/stdout.txt
[18:51:53] <[LK]> I still have it "running" just that I cant get it up, and it says "no answer" when I check open programs
[18:53:33] <[LK]> But I dont know anything about debugs etc.
[18:53:37] <[LK]> You want me to do something?
[18:53:51] <wjp|studying> take a look at stderr.txt/stdout.txt. They should be in the exult directory
[18:54:07] <wjp|studying> also, what were you doing when it crashed?
[18:54:39] <[LK]> I talked to a troll in the jail!
[18:54:55] <[LK]> Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
[18:55:04] <[LK]> This is the last thing stderr says
[18:55:19] <[LK]> and the other one I cant open, because "its already in use"
[18:55:36] <wjp|studying> anything above that line?
[18:56:44] <[LK]> Setting Shape to 721
[18:56:55] <[LK]> but it says that like.. over 100times.. :P
[18:58:54] <[LK]> So what do I do?
[18:59:17] <wjp|studying> hm, could you see if you can get it to happen again?
[18:59:26] <[LK]> Uh
[18:59:27] <[LK]> Ill try
[18:59:44] <[LK]> I MUST start SAVE more often!
[18:59:49] <wjp|studying> oh, were you using beta1 or a recent snapshot, btw?
[18:59:58] * wjp|studying forgot
[19:00:02] <[LK]> I dont know.. o.0
[19:00:12] <[LK]> I think its some kind of beta.. not sure..
[19:00:26] <wjp|studying> it should show in the bottom right corner when you start exult
[19:00:38] <wjp|studying> or otherwise press 'v' in-game
[19:01:07] <[LK]> v0.91beta1 I think it says
[19:01:15] <wjp|studying> 0.96beta1, probably
[19:01:16] <[LK]> 96
[19:01:23] <[LK]> yeah
[19:01:29] <wjp|studying> you could try to upgrade to a recent snapshot
[19:02:39] <wjp|studying> anyway, back to number theory for me
[19:35:46] <[LK]> Uhm
[19:35:51] <[LK]> I was supposed to get a book.
[19:35:56] <[LK]> From a golem...
[19:36:01] <[LK]> but I never got the book? o.0
[19:41:39] --> Kharza-kzad has joined #exult
[20:03:45] <[LK]> wow
[20:03:50] <[LK]> I found alot of cool stuff!!
[20:12:13] --> Sslaxx has joined #exult
[20:12:44] <[LK]> I think something is messed up.. :P
[20:12:47] <[LK]> Im on an island
[20:12:49] <Sslaxx> Hi.
[20:12:59] <[LK]> found a soul cage in a nigthstick or something
[20:13:02] <[LK]> Hello!
[20:13:09] <Kharza-kzad> gday :D
[20:13:10] <[LK]> Do you know alot about U7?
[20:13:15] * Sslaxx gives folks Strawberries.
[20:13:18] <Kharza-kzad> lk: I'm replaying u7
[20:13:20] <Kharza-kzad> arigato
[20:13:25] <[LK]> I need help! :P
[20:13:36] <Sslaxx> What's up?
[20:13:41] <[LK]> I found this nightstick or something with ALOT of magic stuff
[20:13:51] <[LK]> and then I moved the soulcage all the way to like a deathcastle
[20:14:05] <Kharza-kzad> sounds like your farther along than me hehe
[20:14:11] <[LK]> and when I moved it inside the deathcastle, some skelleton said "dont move that"
[20:14:19] <Sslaxx> What colour's this 'nightstick'?
[20:14:22] <[LK]> But I BROUGHT it there! :D
[20:14:41] <[LK]> And then came guards!
[20:14:50] <Sslaxx> Guards in Horance's castle?
[20:14:52] <Sslaxx> Yikes!
[20:14:54] <[LK]> Where the hell did those guards come from? Im on somekind of DEATHISLAND!
[20:15:00] <Sslaxx> Skara Brae.
[20:15:26] <[LK]> lol
[20:15:35] <[LK]> the guard walked out on the water and disapeared! :P
[20:15:49] <[LK]> no wait, its outside the castle.. :P
[20:15:53] <Kharza-kzad> I haven't been there yet
[20:15:54] <Sslaxx> Sounds like some more work is needed there.
[20:15:59] <Kharza-kzad> ah I think stealing is kinda iffy
[20:16:02] <[LK]> Want me to show you a screenie?
[20:16:06] <[LK]> Ill take one..
[20:16:18] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[20:17:12] <[LK]> And I dont know who is saying the "stop that, or else" thing
[20:17:22] <Sslaxx> Hi, Dominus.
[20:17:26] <[LK]> cause the text isnt over any ghost.. it comes in the air!
[20:17:34] <Dominus> just a note to everyone else [LK] is just goofing around in BG and not following any plot so don't bother with plot related stuff :-)
[20:17:40] <Dominus> hi Sslaxx
[20:17:44] <Dominus> hi Kharza-kzad
[20:17:58] <Kharza-kzad> gday Dominus :D
[20:18:18] <[LK]> one question
[20:18:22] <Sslaxx> Fair enough, Dominus.
[20:18:25] * Sslaxx chuckles.
[20:18:28] <[LK]> how do I look into peoples inventories?
[20:18:40] <wjp|studying> you want the 'pick pocket' cheat
[20:18:44] <wjp|studying> look at Ctrl-H for the key
[20:18:46] <Kharza-kzad> kill them and double click the body
[20:18:52] <wjp|studying> Kharza-kzad: lol
[20:18:54] <[LK]> I dont want to kill :P
[20:19:01] <wjp|studying> [LK]: you don't?
[20:19:08] <[LK]> Like that lolo guy, if Im in attack mode and doubleclick them
[20:19:42] <Kharza-kzad> I totally goofed a quest earlier
[20:19:42] * Dominus points to the docs with all the cheats listed (again)
[20:19:42] <[LK]> docs with cheats? o.O
[20:21:01] <Dominus> http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#exult_cheats
[20:21:20] <Dominus> now [LK] please do me a favor and read the docs and the FAQ
[20:22:07] <[LK]> haha
[20:23:46] <Dominus> and while you are at it update to the latest snapshot
[20:24:24] <[LK]> hehehe
[20:24:44] <[LK]> U7 rocks! And Exult rocks too cause its cheatfilled!!
[20:24:53] <[LK]> <-- loves cheats!
[20:25:03] <Dominus> the original had as many cheats
[20:25:16] <Dominus> okay, not quite as many
[20:25:42] <[LK]> Why is Horace's castle filled with guards?
[20:26:13] <Dominus> because you stole something (at least the steal flag got set on some item you moved or took)
[20:26:19] <Dominus> and someone called the guards
[20:28:23] <Dominus> Kharza-kzad: what quest did you goof up?
[20:28:34] <Kharza-kzad> the paws serpent venom theft thing
[20:28:45] <Kharza-kzad> I gave the venom back to the dealer before confronting the kid
[20:28:46] <Dominus> what went wrong there?
[20:28:51] <Dominus> he he
[20:29:06] <Dominus> normally it should work nethertheless
[20:29:15] <Dominus> not sure though
[20:29:35] <Kharza-kzad> well he and the kids dad think it went well, the kid and the farmer wife & son don't know anything happened
[20:29:36] <wjp|studying> it's always been kind of a problematic quest. Both in the original and in exult
[20:29:43] <Kharza-kzad> they are still in the "we are innocent" mode
[20:30:00] <Kharza-kzad> had a great runthru though, been talking to tons of npcs I never met before
[20:30:12] <Dominus> there is some flag you have to set by talking to some people that is somehow hard to get
[20:30:14] <Kharza-kzad> not done yet but no bugs really to speak of
[20:30:28] --- Amy|sleep is now known as Amy
[20:30:29] <Kharza-kzad> I have noticed that they don't get the tired icon on the ztats
[20:30:39] <Kharza-kzad> my whole party has been awake for like 4 days
[20:30:40] <Dominus> who?
[20:31:01] <Dominus> maybe you are in god mode?
[20:31:03] <Amy> I never saw any of them get tired in the original.
[20:31:18] <Kharza-kzad> I have cheats off
[20:31:38] <Kharza-kzad> Amysan: They may not get tired in the original, not sure
[20:31:51] <Dominus> me enither
[20:32:03] <Kharza-kzad> It's been great fun this time though, I am doing lots of side stuff I never did the first time
[20:32:30] <Kharza-kzad> U7 I think I've only done thru once, whereas most of the other ultimas I've done many times
[20:32:43] <Kharza-kzad> It's been long enough that I've forgotten most so it's like a new game
[20:33:12] * Dominus has done BG too often
[20:33:18] <Kharza-kzad> What a fantastic game it is too, wish there were more of them
[20:33:43] <Dominus> me too
[20:34:00] <Amy> I still haven't played through U7.
[20:34:24] <Amy> I start tinkering around with little things, and never get any further.
[20:34:46] <Amy> Farthest I've gotten was when I made the black sword in my last play through, before my stuff started getting unstable, which has since been fixed.
[20:34:47] * Dominus hasn't played through BG with Exult yet
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[20:45:05] <[LK]> How to talk to them when I have stealing thing in?
[20:45:43] <Dominus> ?
[20:45:51] <Dominus> ah
[20:45:54] <Dominus> turn it off
[20:46:07] <Dominus> it's either not both
[20:49:16] <[LK]> ok :P
[20:49:26] <[LK]> And I dont have music.. am I missing alot? =P
[20:50:01] <Dominus> yep, read the docs
[20:53:11] <[LK]> wow
[20:53:25] <[LK]> You said gold is staccable to 100
[20:53:30] <[LK]> but I found a pile of 103
[20:54:35] <Kharza-kzad> that's a neat trick hehe
[20:54:35] <Dominus> you still can't stack above 100
[20:54:52] <[LK]> But why is there one aboce 100?
[20:55:00] <Dominus> in the original it was possible to stack to 127 or so
[20:55:10] <[LK]> okey
[20:55:13] <Dominus> and there are some stacks that go above it
[21:01:51] <[LK]> I crashed it again..
[21:02:12] <[LK]> 0.o
[21:02:25] <[LK]> I didnt! It just froze it for 10 seconds.. :P
[21:09:29] <[LK]> is this fellowship evil or good? =P
[21:09:43] <Dominus> what do you think by listening to them
[21:10:12] <[LK]> They sound like a sect..
[21:15:53] <-- Kharza-kzad has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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[21:18:28] <Dominus> [LK]: and what do we know about sects?
[21:24:09] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[21:24:15] <wjp|studying> hi
[21:24:30] <Dominus> hi
[21:24:54] <Fingolfin> lo
[21:25:01] <Fingolfin> wjp is studying it seems :)
[21:25:08] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[21:25:21] <wjp|studying> yeah.. umm... I'm studying the complicated social interaction in an average IRC channel...
[21:25:32] <Fingolfin> interesting interesting
[21:25:37] <Fingolfin> anything usefuly been revealed so far?
[21:25:45] <wjp|studying> no :-)
[21:26:07] <wjp|studying> well, except for the fact that some people seem to use IRC as an excuse not to study for a number theory exam
[21:26:18] <wjp|studying> *cough* *cough* :-)
[21:26:53] <Fingolfin> ah, intersting theory
[21:27:10] <Fingolfin> I thought some people would use it in order to not have to solve some tedious partial differential equations?
[21:27:16] <Fingolfin> *cough*
[21:27:27] <wjp|studying> :-)
[21:27:49] <wjp|studying> Colourless and I figured out the main structure of u8's anim.dat earlier today, btw
[21:28:34] <Fingolfin> cool
[21:28:39] <Dominus> btw, did you make a note of this in the pentagram docs?
[21:28:57] <wjp|studying> no
[21:29:14] <wjp|studying> still too many unknowns
[21:49:50] <[LK]> Ahh... Where do all these guards come from?
[21:50:20] <Dominus> ?logs
[21:50:20] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[21:51:16] <[LK]> Why cant I get music in game?
[21:51:33] <[LK]> I have all douns/music enabeled, still no sound
[21:53:15] <Dominus> do midis make a sound on your windows? what soundcard?
[21:53:56] <Kharza-kzad> yea go to a web page with music, such as : http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~rahjr79/ninja.htm
[21:54:02] <Kharza-kzad> and see if you hear anything
[21:54:16] <Dominus> "see if you hear music" :-)
[21:54:27] <Kharza-kzad> hahaha hear if you hear music
[21:54:43] <Dominus> or look for *.mid files on your comp
[21:56:45] <Dominus> and...?
[21:57:39] <Dominus> oh my, Kharza-kzad, what is that webpage? :-)
[21:57:56] <Kharza-kzad> it's a great ninja page
[21:58:02] <Kharza-kzad> the movie scripts are wonderful
[21:59:21] <Dominus> he he
[22:05:06] <[LK]> Uh
[22:05:14] <[LK]> I hear listen to midi music alot..
[22:05:15] <[LK]> :D
[22:05:29] <Dominus> ok, what soundcard do you have
[22:05:59] <[LK]> I donno :P
[22:06:14] <Dominus> well, then I dunno about your problem
[22:07:06] <Dominus> if you have a windows keyboard with windows keys, press that with the break key
[22:07:31] <[LK]> break key?
[22:07:52] <Dominus> it's above the scroll up key
[22:08:12] <[LK]> I have an european keyboard, doesnt look the same as Us one
[22:08:14] <[LK]> US
[22:08:24] <[LK]> Uh
[22:08:27] <Dominus> I have a german keyboard
[22:08:29] <[LK]> And I have a weirdo keyboard
[22:08:33] <[LK]> lol
[22:09:05] <[LK]> I found pause key.. is that the same?
[22:09:10] <Dominus> right
[22:09:29] <[LK]> its located to the left of my keyboard near the internet butons.. :P
[22:09:38] <Dominus> oh, wherever
[22:09:59] <Dominus> just please press that one along with the windows key
[22:10:39] <Dominus> then you should have the device manager and please tell em what device is listed there under Audio...
[22:10:39] <[LK]> ok
[22:10:42] <[LK]> yeah
[22:11:25] <[LK]> Is it PCI something?
[22:11:56] <Dominus> noo, audio or something
[22:12:01] <[LK]> yeah
[22:12:07] <[LK]> It says audio blah
[22:12:16] <Dominus> and then what devices are in this
[22:12:21] <wjp|studying> Dominus: that's a shortcut for the device manager? neat
[22:12:27] <wjp|studying> (win-break, I mean)
[22:12:39] <[LK]> and then it says PCI 338-A3d Audio
[22:12:48] <Dominus> wjp|studying: yep! only in 2k or XP you have to click sth again
[22:13:14] <Dominus> LK
[22:13:28] * wjp|studying fights evolution's build mechanism
[22:13:46] <wjp|studying> ugh... and all I wanted was a 'reply to list' button on the toolbar...
[22:13:59] <Dominus> [LK]: please get a snapshot tomorrow and try again
[22:14:13] <wjp|studying> 15 libraries and 5 full rebuilds further...
[22:14:25] <Dominus> and while you are at it get newer drivers for your soundcard
[22:14:37] <Dominus> wjp|studying: I pity you
[22:15:12] <wjp|studying> ah well, I should've just used the .rpm which worked instantly
[22:15:19] <wjp|studying> but no, I had to build from source...
[22:15:21] * wjp|studying hits self
[22:15:27] <Dominus> he he
[22:17:25] <wjp|studying> ah well, at least I can study while it's compiling :-)
[22:18:29] <matto> hi :)
[22:19:05] <Dominus> matto!!!!!!!!
[22:19:06] <wjp|studying> hi
[22:19:14] <matto> DOMINUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:19:21] <Dominus> uargh
[22:19:28] <matto> WJP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:19:37] <-- matto was kicked from #exult by wjp|studying (shut up ;-))
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[22:19:44] <wjp|studying> sorry :-)
[22:19:49] <Dominus> lol
[22:19:51] <Fingolfin> :)
[22:19:55] <matto> arrgh
[22:20:03] --- Fingolfin gives channel operator status to matto
[22:20:08] <wjp|studying> uh oh
[22:20:11] --- wjp|studying is now known as wjp
[22:20:17] * Fingolfin watches wjp study
[22:20:26] <Fingolfin> matto: go go go
[22:20:33] * Dominus watches what matto is going to do
[22:20:45] <matto> I'm not going to do anything
[22:20:59] <wjp> /kick Fingolfin traitor
[22:20:59] <Dominus> boring boring
[22:21:09] <Fingolfin> muwahaha
[22:21:35] <-- Dominus was kicked from #exult by Fingolfin (Fingolfin)
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[22:21:40] <Fingolfin> better? :)
[22:21:51] <Dominus> hrmpf
[22:22:12] <Dominus> :-)
[22:22:15] <Fingolfin> to childish? :)
[22:22:28] <Dominus> nope
[22:22:49] <Dominus> I wasn't kicked from the channel before. My first !
[22:24:54] <[LK]> lol
[22:25:01] <[LK]> Now music came!
[22:25:02] <Fingolfin> really?
[22:25:13] <Fingolfin> Dominus: that's cool, not even once? :)
[22:25:16] <[LK]> Why did I get music all of a sudden?
[22:25:23] <[LK]> I didnt change anythin!! :D
[22:25:32] * Fingolfin things a good kick fest from time to time is good for body fitness
[22:26:28] <Dominus> LK: maybe you enabled midi again
[22:26:45] <Dominus> Fingolfin: well you kicked a dominus ghost the other day
[22:26:50] <Fingolfin> ok
[22:27:03] <[LK]> Dominus, I didnt change anything
[22:27:20] <Dominus> maybe your os is just wrong somehow
[22:27:24] <Fingolfin> Dominus: I hope it didn't hurt to much, feel free to retalitate at any time (though it's most effective when I am not expecting it =)
[22:27:34] <wjp> Dominus: it's windows... of course it's wrong :-P
[22:28:13] <Dominus> hey hey, I found Win9x very fine (as long as I reinstalled it every two or three months :-))
[22:28:42] <matto> hehe
[22:51:14] <[LK]> My friend found cheerleaders... how?
[22:51:26] <wjp> ARGH... it tries to strip a SCRIPT and then aborts because strip doesn't recognize the file type...
[22:55:25] <[LK]> what does an egg do+
[22:59:09] <wjp> there's several different kinds of eggs
[22:59:19] <[LK]> is it where things spawn?
[22:59:23] <wjp> some create monsters, some are traps, some change the weather, some play music, etc...
[22:59:33] <[LK]> ooh.. heh
[22:59:42] <[LK]> I just wanna find the cheerleaders..
[22:59:43] <[LK]> ;)
[22:59:51] <wjp> aren't those in serpent isle?
[22:59:52] <Dominus> no cheerleaders in bg
[23:01:10] <[LK]> oh ok lol
[23:10:07] <[LK]> How can I get on a roof? =)
[23:10:35] <wjp> by building a staircase of crates
[23:10:40] <wjp> (or other objects)
[23:11:48] <[LK]> How can I create a crate?
[23:12:12] <wjp> press Ctrl-B
[23:12:28] <wjp> then use PgDown/PgUp and Up/Down until you find shape number 804, which is a crate
[23:12:33] <Dominus> you don't create one you look for them, you can use chests as well
[23:15:45] <wjp> finally... a "Reply to List" button... all done :-)
[23:18:00] <[LK]> Argh
[23:18:10] <[LK]> It doesnt wokr building a stair of craters
[23:18:35] <Dominus> oh yeah it does - patience is a virtue
[23:18:50] <Fingolfin> Dominus: how wise
[23:18:56] <[LK]> But I have the craters in the same line as the roof
[23:19:01] <[LK]> and he just cant get to the roof
[23:19:23] <Dominus> one more then
[23:19:26] <wjp> hint: you need crates, not craters ;-) (crates go up, craters go down ;-) )
[23:19:36] <Dominus> lol
[23:19:38] <[LK]> lol
[23:19:43] <[LK]> Im using crates sorry :P
[23:26:33] <wjp> I should go
[23:26:35] <wjp> night
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[23:28:52] * Dominus whistles innocently
[23:35:15] <[LK]> What to use? Lightningwhip, hoe of destruction, juggernaut hammer, magic axe, hawk, or the death scytche?
[23:36:32] <Dominus> whatever you like. (although the hawk is weak)
[23:41:10] <[LK]> What does prisma do?
[23:41:39] <Dominus> don't bother unless you are doing the plot.
[23:42:06] <[LK]> ok
[23:42:53] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("night")
[23:42:54] <Dominus> and I tell you again, when you play the plot don't bother with the prism at that cheat room. Or you don't have to bother playing the g<me
[23:52:13] <[LK]> But I always cheat when playing games.. :)
[23:53:21] <Dominus> yeah, but those prisms are the things you shouldn't cheat with
[23:53:44] <Dominus> the other stuff is okay as long as you follow the plot
[23:53:46] <[LK]> but if I would play the game
[23:54:03] <[LK]> then I wouldn only get like god mode and inra vission etc.
[23:54:05] <[LK]> no items..
[23:54:08] <[LK]> infra
[23:57:23] <Dominus> and as I said, U7 is only real fun when you play the game and don't fool around. The plot is the best thing about the game