#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Jan 2003 (GMT)

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[00:54:29] <jameson> Hi!
[00:55:52] <jameson> Just one quick question: Is there some way for working around the copy protection schemes in BG and SI, or could one be implemented?
[01:02:38] <-- jameson was kicked from #exult by Kirben (No warez)
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[01:15:10] <jameson_> Hi again... OK, let me re-phrase that last question:
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[01:17:05] <jameson_> Hypothetically, assuming someone had gotten prior written permission from Origin for selling (under license) a CD containing U7 plus Exult, would that person have a reasonable way for disabling the copy protection, provided that (again, hypothetically) Origin Systems, Inc. had given him explicit written permission to do just that? I don't want to know how complicated that would be or how it should be done, just whether or not it woul
[01:17:41] * Servus_ . o O ( wow look what i walked into )
[01:18:32] <jameson_> Preferrably without being kicked for asking a "warez" question regarding a game I bought twice and still happen to have the manual to.
[01:18:48] <Servus_> according to a supreme court ruling, C++ code is considered 'art' and the actual game data is the most heavily controlled in a legal sense, except for specific cases of code-licensing, such as id licensing out an engine
[01:19:08] * Servus_ . o O ( i bought the game 3 times :)
[01:20:05] <Kirben> Origin basically just ignore us and would never give permission to do something like that anway.
[01:20:51] <Servus_> if you really wish to pursue a new marketing drive for ultima 7, consider citing examples such as Counterstrike's role in keeping half-life sales up
[01:21:26] <jameson_> I don't personally want to do that, I've just been discussing that with a person who is trying to do that with some other game engine re-implementations...
[01:22:18] <jameson_> ...but I'll tell him about that and leave the technical part open.
[01:22:26] <jameson_> Thanks!
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[01:22:39] <Servus_> shrugs... i am utterly useless:)
[01:24:50] <Kirben> I still think that sounded like someone trying to provide a warez CD, asking exact same quesiton on #scummvm
[01:27:34] <Servus_> i dont think theres anything wrong with the concept of marketing a new and improved version of an old game however
[01:28:08] <Servus_> and ultima7 is almost no longer warez due to its not being sold as a unique item anymore
[01:29:16] <Kirben> The idea of a re-release for EA themselves would be good but he mentioned an outside release which doesn't make sense. Don't even mention the term abandonware.
[01:30:56] <Servus_> well i bought the game two and a half times so dont worry about me :)
[03:09:29] <Fingolfin> Kirben: note that jameson = jamieson = our ex-Alpha porter, and somebody I know from RL - don't think he's after warez
[03:09:39] <Fingolfin> oh he's also FreeSCI lead developer I think :-)
[03:10:13] <Kirben> yes, worked it out on #scummvm anyway.
[03:10:19] <Servus_> whats the mvm stand for?
[03:10:56] <Kirben> Scumm Virtual Machine I think
[03:11:20] <Servus_> what an appetizing acronym
[03:17:51] <Matt_O> yes he is involved with FreeSCI
[03:20:21] <Fingolfin> studies on the same university as me
[03:20:40] <Fingolfin> well, only that neither of us is studying there right now, but anyway <g>
[03:21:04] <Matt_O> hehe
[03:21:14] <Matt_O> how long do you expect to be "at" that university?
[03:22:05] <Fingolfin> which one?
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[10:25:21] <Servus_> Yeeeeeeeeeeep
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[12:50:09] <Colourless> hi
[12:53:48] <Servus_> hello
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[14:07:00] <Fingolfin> hiya
[14:07:07] <Colourless> hi
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[16:00:39] <wjp> hi
[16:00:51] <Colourless> hi
[16:11:02] <Fingolfin> hi
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[19:38:49] <jerbear> hola
[19:43:32] <jerbear> if any of you dev-types are around -- I had a question regarding add'l data files... I was interested in dorking around with developing another sound pack for Exult
[19:44:36] <jerbear> as you've got the original soundblaster fm-style and the mt-32 -- I wanted to develop a pack consisting of real sound effects
[19:48:28] <jerbear> ...just needed a pointer in how to go about getting documentation on what sound effects exult points to
[19:49:26] <jerbear> (I played with the flx extraction briefly and got numbered wav files, I was hoping that there might be an explaination of each sound... some are obvious, but some arent :)
[19:51:53] * jerbear idles
[20:03:36] <wjp> your best bet would probably be asking on the forums or on the ML
[20:03:52] <wjp> I really don't know much about the audio stuff in Exult
[20:04:55] * jerbear nods
[20:08:21] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[20:08:28] <Dominus> hey ho
[20:08:29] <Fingolfin> hi Dominus
[20:08:32] <Dominus> long time no see
[20:08:49] <Dominus> jerbear still there?
[20:10:33] <Dominus> in the sourcecode we have a file called serpentsfx.txt in /docs
[20:11:31] <Dominus> and in /audio take a look at conv.cc (those are the ones of BG you just need to add numbers to them so you see which is which)
[20:13:05] <jerbear> i am
[20:13:36] <jerbear> swell
[20:13:38] <Dominus> alternatively I made an amalgam of the fm-sfx and the sfx from UO and U9
[20:13:48] <Dominus> just need to find my link
[20:13:59] <Dominus> http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/exult/drsfx.zip
[20:14:35] <jerbear> nice... never played uo myself, but i was going to poke through ultima9's sound resources
[20:14:44] <Dominus> a bit outdated as on my hd I have a slightly better version but not in a state I'd like to put up (not to mention the missing time to do so)
[20:16:13] <Dominus> I'm moving on Thursday to another apartment and there is so much to do still
[20:17:52] <jerbear> what have you got left to do? if you need a hand, I may be able to assist...
[20:18:10] <Dominus> he he
[20:18:27] <Dominus> for a moment i thought you offered help for moving :-)
[20:18:35] <jerbear> Heh :)
[20:19:02] <Dominus> problem is I haven't looked at it for ages and therefor don't know what is up with it...
[20:19:35] <Dominus> but I have no problem with someone else taking my pack on and change it
[20:20:16] <Dominus> after all I haven't done anything original with it (save for a flame-on sound done with some matches)
[20:20:41] <jerbear> nice :)
[20:21:56] <Dominus> I think we have one issue with the sfx that it won't play 44,1 khz files (not sure though)
[20:22:15] <jerbear> yeah, im a fan of hi-fidelity myself
[20:22:37] <jerbear> but you work in 44k and downsample to test if and/or when that gets resolved
[20:24:06] <jerbear> not too shabby
[20:24:44] <jerbear> I can probably get my hands on the sound-ideas general 6000 library
[20:25:15] <jerbear> going to check out those files you mentioned in the source
[20:25:29] <Dominus> actually we would very much like to have another alternate sfx-pack done with LEGITIMATE sfx
[20:26:15] <jerbear> thats no problem
[20:26:34] <jerbear> theres a fair amount of copy/paste sound effects in ultima9 that are probably in the general 6000 library
[20:27:16] <jerbear> << wanna-be sound designer
[20:27:27] <Dominus> so that general 6000 library is free for use?
[20:27:39] <jerbear> its a royalty-free sound effects library
[20:27:50] <Dominus> that sounds good
[20:27:53] <jerbear> lots of game development studios use it
[20:28:07] <Dominus> hmm
[20:28:08] <jerbear> a lot of the original sounds from DOOM came from it
[20:28:13] <Dominus> he he
[20:28:24] <jerbear> doors, platforms, some of the demon sounds -- they were straight copy-and-paste
[20:29:02] <jerbear> its a 40-cd library with all kinds of sound effects
[20:30:30] <jerbear> but yeah, using it and distributing the sounds should be perfectly legit and legal
[20:31:01] <jerbear> http://www.sound-ideas.com/6000.html
[20:31:57] <jerbear> and for legal use, http://www.sound-ideas.com/licenses.html
[20:33:07] <Dominus> 40 CDs...
[20:33:34] <jerbear> Heh.
[20:33:40] <jerbear> they have 'extensions' too
[20:33:58] <jerbear> I'm attempting to get a job in the game industry doing sounds
[20:34:20] <jerbear> So the more projects I can put under my belt the better...
[20:34:31] <jerbear> and I'm happy to do it in my free time...
[20:36:29] <Dominus> we'll be happy if you do some :-)
[20:36:35] <jerbear> Swell :)
[20:36:36] <Dominus> so we are all happy
[20:41:42] <jerbear> cool -- looking at conv.cc, it seems those are the black gate sound effects
[20:44:18] <Dominus> aehm, that's what I meant before :-)
[20:44:34] <Dominus> it is actually a conversation table for the Si sounds :-)
[20:44:54] <jerbear> ah, i see
[20:45:25] <Dominus> BG sfx #1 = Si sfx #12 (bow twang)
[20:46:05] <jerbear> ah, i see -- bg2 = si0, bg3 = si9
[20:46:26] <Dominus> should be
[20:46:42] <jerbear> well, it starts from 0, right?
[20:46:49] <jerbear> so what you said would really be bg0 = si12
[20:46:59] <Dominus> oh, oops
[20:47:02] <jerbear> :)
[20:47:05] <Dominus> right
[20:47:08] <jerbear> cool
[20:48:35] <Dominus> can you accept dcc?
[20:48:47] <jerbear> nossir, firewall...
[20:48:51] <Dominus> I have some better listing
[20:48:58] <jerbear> but my email can accept rather large attachments
[20:50:19] <Dominus> sent
[20:50:23] <jerbear> thanks
[20:51:33] <Dominus> but even that si sfx listing might be incorrect as Mungo (our mt32 recorder and ogg file supporter) changed one or two in the conv.cc and I might have forgotten to update the list
[20:51:47] <jerbear> gotcha
[20:54:09] <jerbear> cool
[20:55:23] <jerbear> this should be awsome
[20:55:31] <jerbear> err, awesome even :|
[20:56:07] <Dominus> you might have to compare the si-list to the conv.cc
[20:56:14] <jerbear> yeah, ive made a copy
[20:56:35] <jerbear> checking out that zip you posted
[20:56:43] <jerbear> the readme in particular
[20:56:46] <jerbear> on building the set
[20:57:10] <jerbear> im assuming that expack reads the textfile (drbg, or drsi)
[20:57:16] <Dominus> yep
[20:57:17] <jerbear> and compiles it in to an flx
[20:57:23] <Dominus> yep
[20:57:49] <jerbear> the flx is just a numbered index of files then? theres no internal 'name' reference?
[20:58:01] <Dominus> right
[20:58:04] <jerbear> so it calls 'lump 0' from the flx for the bow sound, for example
[20:58:22] <jerbear> nice
[20:59:27] <jerbear> the first entry is the filename of the compiled flx
[20:59:29] <jerbear> okay
[21:00:36] <Dominus> (I wonder if there is a need to answer any of your questionsas you seem to manage on your own quite well :-))
[21:01:01] <Dominus> When you download expack there is a readme for that program
[21:01:24] <jerbear> heh, i just like to half think out loud
[21:01:28] <jerbear> i guess for confirmation :P
[21:02:03] <jerbear> by gump -- that when a 'window' pops up, like the character window or an entity's inventory?
[21:02:08] <Dominus> oh and of course the readme for expack is in /tools of the cvs
[21:02:19] <Dominus> yep
[21:02:22] <jerbear> okeeday
[21:03:20] <jerbear> do you work on the audio engine?
[21:03:40] <Dominus> nope, I'm just the lazy documentation guy
[21:03:45] <jerbear> heh
[21:03:47] <jerbear> sweet :)
[21:04:24] <Dominus> and when I tried to do a sfx pack for si I found the original sisounds.txt quite faulty
[21:06:39] <jerbear> would you be the person who knows what parts of the game triggers some of these sounds?
[21:07:03] <jerbear> example being 'surfs up' -- that'd be like the crashing waves or something?
[21:07:19] <Dominus> yep
[21:07:28] <jerbear> or 'forge' being a blacksmith forging or something to do with the 'forge of virtue' pack
[21:07:46] <Dominus> forging
[21:07:52] <jerbear> (i killed too many hours goofing around in ultima7 to actually beat it and know each individual sound, hehe)
[21:08:04] <jerbear> swell
[21:08:22] <Dominus> when you look at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/exult/exult/audio/conv.cc
[21:08:57] <Dominus> you can press difff on each revision of conv.cc to learn what was changed (to put the si-sfx up to date)
[21:09:13] <jerbear> okay
[21:12:03] <matto|wookin> DOMINUS!!!!!!!!
[21:12:14] <Dominus> matto|wookin!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:12:19] <matto|wookin> ladies and gentlemen, we are in the presence of greatness!
[21:12:32] <Dominus> bla bla bla :-)
[21:12:36] <matto|wookin> hehe
[21:12:48] <matto|wookin> Dominus : I forget... are you a wheel of time fan?
[21:12:57] <Dominus> nope
[21:13:28] <Dominus> who reads such a book anyway?
[21:13:32] * Dominus ducks
[21:13:46] * Dominus hopes wjp and Fingolfin don't pay attention
[21:13:51] <matto|wookin> I do!
[21:14:08] <matto|wookin> you read Sword of Truth didn't you?
[21:14:13] <matto|wookin> read as in past-tense
[21:14:30] <Dominus> yep
[21:14:38] <matto|wookin> but you didn't read wheel of time?
[21:14:46] <Dominus> exactly
[21:14:48] * Fingolfin is more tolerant than Dominus and doesn't care
[21:14:51] <matto|wookin> ahh...
[21:15:05] <Dominus> sniff
[21:15:20] <matto|wookin> I am reading book 10 of wheel of time right now..
[21:16:00] * Dominus read the logs and knows everything there is to know about that topic here :-)
[21:16:25] <Dominus> Fingolfin got it before xmas (one day or so), wjp and you got it recently
[21:16:38] * Dominus feels like a stalker :-)
[21:16:41] <matto|wookin> well, yes :)
[21:17:49] <matto|wookin> well if you don't care to discuss books, then perhaps you'd be interested to know that I just installed a fresh Debian with GNOME2 and for the first time, I think the fonts actually look great
[21:18:20] <matto|wookin> oh but you're a windows user aren't you
[21:18:22] <matto|wookin> errhmmm ...
[21:18:25] <Dominus> he he
[21:18:27] <Dominus> exactly
[21:18:53] <Dominus> actually I shouldnt discuss anything as I should pack up my belongings
[21:19:11] <Dominus> but just don't want to atm
[21:21:47] <jerbear> Dominus: do you know off hand if expack allows for directories? when compiling it able to have weapon/bow.wav
[21:22:04] <jerbear> (at work so im trying to get my research out of the way :)
[21:22:12] <Dominus> no idea
[21:22:21] <jerbear> ill give it a whirl then and wont count on it
[21:22:30] <jerbear> << anally organized
[21:33:12] <Dominus> ok, I have to work now. jerbear if you have more specific sound code questions, either contact Simon Quinn (on our "About Us" page) or post in the forum (I might be unavaillable for another 45 days :-))
[21:33:23] <jerbear> okeeday
[21:33:25] <jerbear> good luck with your move.
[21:33:33] <Dominus> thanks
[21:33:34] <jerbear> and thanks for all your assistance
[21:33:38] <jerbear> heaps
[21:33:39] <Dominus> have fun with the sounds
[21:33:42] <jerbear> aye
[21:33:44] <Dominus> no problem
[21:33:53] <Dominus> bya all
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[21:58:18] <wjp> time for me to go; g'night
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[22:04:24] <pyomy> hi
[22:05:41] <pyomy> can someone help me with a compiler error?
[22:06:45] <Dark-Star> depends on the error :-)
[22:07:30] <pyomy> No rule to make target 'snprintf.o', needed by 'expack.exe'.
[22:08:24] <pyomy> make error, not compiler
[22:08:39] <Dark-Star> assuming you're on windows with VC6 ... that's only for the tools package, try only building the main executable ...
[22:09:31] <pyomy> i'm using msys + gcc
[22:09:54] <pyomy> trying to do make install
[22:10:20] <Dark-Star> you don't really need "make install". if your exult.exe exists then you're fine
[22:10:47] <Dark-Star> just copy exult.exe and the data files over your old version (i.e. if you have an old version of exult installed)
[22:10:56] <Dark-Star> that's how I do it ...
[22:11:36] <pyomy> exult.exe isn't getting built
[22:12:39] <Dark-Star> hmmm... strange...
[22:12:50] <Dark-Star> try "make exult" or "make exult.exe"
[22:13:43] <pyomy> there it goes
[22:17:04] <pyomy> although i've got some compiler errors onw
[22:17:05] <pyomy> now
[22:17:26] <Dark-Star> hmmm... what kind of errors?
[22:21:34] <pyomy> exult_flx.h
[22:21:37] <pyomy> not found
[22:21:46] <Dark-Star> hmmmmmm
[22:22:14] <Dark-Star> you sure you have a complete source tree? i.e. no missing files?
[22:22:36] <pyomy> no, i'm not sure
[22:22:41] <pyomy> i don't appear to have that file
[22:22:58] <Dark-Star> did you get the sources from CVS?
[22:23:53] <pyomy> no, i have the 1.00 source .tar.gz from the downloads page
[22:25:09] <pyomy> i guess i'll do that instead
[22:25:33] <Dark-Star> yes, if you know how to do it then try CVS (sourceforge has a quick intro on each projects's CVS page)
[22:26:03] <pyomy> yeah i just have to get cvs
[22:26:23] <Dark-Star> doesn't msys include a cvs client?
[22:26:46] <pyomy> maybe it's in the binutils, i'm not sure
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