#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Mar 2001 (GMT)

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[03:02:21] --> NuclearTonic has joined #exult
[03:02:30] <NuclearTonic> Hello anyone there?
[03:02:57] <NuclearTonic> Please answer if anyone is there... need help on 2000 problem.
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[14:42:19] <wjp|studying> hey Ryan
[14:54:01] <Colourless> hi
[15:42:29] <Colourless> bbl
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[16:01:03] <Flyn_Oakplume> Hello
[16:02:15] <Flyn_Oakplume> hello?
[16:02:25] <Fingolfin> hm?
[16:02:31] <Fingolfin> hi flyn
[16:02:48] <Flyn_Oakplume> Hows it going?
[16:03:42] <Fingolfin> fine, you? ;) wjp is busy learning for his exams
[16:04:38] <Flyn_Oakplume> Great ;-)
[16:04:41] <Flyn_Oakplume> What exams?
[16:05:26] <Fingolfin> hm, dunno exactly...
[16:05:33] <Fingolfin> comp-sci? math?
[16:05:47] <Fingolfin> I mean, I know what he studies, but not what exams he's taking ;)
[16:06:02] <Flyn_Oakplume> Ah
[16:06:33] * Flyn_Oakplume wonders if time to finish the Fellowship staff.
[16:07:00] <Flyn_Oakplume> BTW
[16:07:19] <Flyn_Oakplume> What is the other artist, Philip Gottschalk, drawing?
[16:08:05] <Fingolfin> I think he's drawing the charachter faces...
[16:08:17] <Flyn_Oakplume> Ah
[16:09:14] <Flyn_Oakplume> Time for some UO
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[16:09:28] <Flyn_UO> Laters ;-)
[16:11:55] <Fingolfin> have fun ;)(
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[16:42:16] <Nadir> hi
[16:43:41] <-- Nadir has left IRC (I feel like dumping a core)
[16:43:42] <Fingolfin> hi nadir!
[16:43:45] <Fingolfin> eeek
[16:43:49] <Fingolfin> I was too late :(
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[16:59:45] <wjp|studying> hi
[16:59:50] <wjp|studying> btw, statistics exam
[17:00:16] <Fingolfin> hehe
[17:00:29] <wjp|studying> *gone again*
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[17:23:10] <Colourless> back
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[17:54:24] <freedman> Hello
[17:54:30] <wjp> hi Jeff
[17:54:34] <freedman> Studying?
[17:54:38] <Colourless> hi
[17:54:38] <wjp> yeah
[17:54:41] <wjp> exam tomorrow
[17:55:05] <freedman> It's been a long time...
[17:55:24] <freedman> Math?
[17:55:39] <wjp> btw, Jeff, did you CC a copy of the "Re: Hi" mail to the sender?
[17:56:10] <freedman> No. Doesn't he read the list?
[17:56:29] <Fingolfin|shopping> back
[17:56:31] --- Fingolfin|shopping is now known as Fingolfin
[17:56:35] <Fingolfin> hi jeff, wjp
[17:56:35] <wjp> dunno
[17:56:37] <wjp> wb
[17:56:39] <Fingolfin> hi colourless
[17:56:40] <Fingolfin> ;)
[17:57:55] <freedman> Hi
[17:57:55] <Fingolfin> hm, nadir was in here today for a minute, he dropped out again in the second I wanted to say hello :(
[17:57:55] <freedman> Looks like he checked in for 30 secs., then gave up.
[17:58:23] <Fingolfin> yup
[17:58:30] * Fingolfin was not quick enough
[17:58:40] <freedman> Anyone know where to get royalty-free sound effects?
[17:58:59] <wjp> not a clue, sorry
[17:59:05] <freedman> I'll search around game sites in a little while.
[17:59:45] <freedman> It would be really nice to get a fountain, surf, and running water. Maybe I could just go around with a tape recorder.
[18:00:21] <freedman> (Playing with audio is kind of addictive.)
[18:02:38] <Fingolfin> hmm
[18:02:47] <Fingolfin> wait I ask somebody who might have an idea ;)
[18:09:19] <freedman> Anyone see that post about Exult messing up Win2000 (on our mailing list)?
[18:09:39] <wjp> how recent?
[18:09:53] <freedman> Just this morning.
[18:10:12] <freedman> Is the list having time-warp problems again?
[18:10:59] <Colourless> would you mind repeating the problem here?
[18:11:37] <freedman> Re: Windows 2000 Exult problem.
[18:11:37] <freedman> From: Jeff Freedman <jsf@cypress.com>
[18:11:37] <freedman> To: "Shawn Ellis" <sjeoht@epix.net>
[18:11:37] <freedman> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:24:30 -0800
[18:11:37] <freedman> On Tuesday 13 March 2001 19:01, you wrote:
[18:11:37] <freedman> > > Hello,
[18:11:39] <freedman> > I'm using windows 2000 and after using the exult program and
[18:11:41] <freedman> > exiting, the screen pops a little. (makes a funny noise) then looks like
[18:11:43] <freedman> > everything's find after shut down. Then when booted up again I get "the
[18:11:45] <freedman> > blue screen of death." Then after shutting down and starting AGAIN,
[18:11:47] <freedman> > everything runs fine. This happens every time I shutdown my computer now...
[18:11:49] <freedman> > when I load up it I get "the blue screen of death." whether I run exult or
[18:11:51] <freedman> > not. Is there something exult does to windows that could mess it up?
[18:12:19] <freedman> I wonder what Nadir will say:-?
[18:14:04] <freedman> I can think of a couple suggestions: RedHat, SuSE:-)
[18:14:15] <Colourless> odd.
[18:14:50] <freedman> Yes. I've had no problems on Win95, even when it was freezing.
[18:15:15] <wjp> probably his own configuration
[18:16:00] <freedman> I thought Win2000 was 'rock-solid'.
[18:16:03] <Colourless> No problem for me in 2000. I do all my work on 2000, only ever use 98 for 3d games
[18:16:38] <Colourless> it is. :)
[18:16:41] <freedman> Maybe bad graphics driver? Or even a bad card?
[18:16:51] <Colourless> Depends though if the rock is chipped. :)
[18:17:09] <Colourless> it's kind of both, by card doesn't have official 2k drivers, and really screws up.
[18:19:09] <freedman> We'll see if anyone else reports this. If so, we'll have to warn against using Exult with Win2K.
[18:20:02] <wjp> I seriously doubt anything exult could do would cause BSOD's on _every_ bootup
[18:20:49] <freedman> Yes. Seems almost impossible.
[18:21:27] <Colourless> Exult shouldn't ever cause a BSOD, even when it's running
[18:22:55] --> Dis has joined #exult
[18:23:05] <Dis> Hello!
[18:23:12] <freedman> Hi!
[18:23:46] <Dis> Can I ask a few question about the planned support for wav files?
[18:23:58] <Colourless> hi
[18:24:02] <freedman> Go ahead. This is my main interest now.
[18:24:22] <Dis> SDL support wav files directly, right?
[18:24:41] <freedman> Yes, they have a function for reading one in. I've used it.
[18:25:17] <Dis> Does SDL support all the different compression types? (ADPCM, for ex.)
[18:25:55] <freedman> I don't think so. You should visit their web site.
[18:26:38] <Dis> OK. I was just wondering how we could reduce the size of the wav files...
[18:27:26] <freedman> It would be worth looking into. Perhaps we could use another library to do the decompression.
[18:27:57] <freedman> ...Going to to SDL's site now.
[18:28:09] <Dis> I'm curious: What bit depth/sample rate did you have in mind for the wav files? 16 bit, 22 KHz?
[18:28:13] <Fingolfin> what about SDL_mixer, BTW?
[18:28:16] <Colourless> argh. ADPCM is shocking for quality really.
[18:28:31] <Fingolfin> dis: why nto support all if possible? :=)
[18:28:37] <Dis> colourless, if adpcm is a bad choice, what about other compression methods?
[18:29:00] <freedman> SDL does converstion from differnt sample rates. 16-bit would be nice.
[18:29:26] <freedman> Okay, here's what it says: Currently raw, MS-ADPCM and IMA-ADPCM WAVE files are supported.
[18:29:38] <Dis> fingolfin - yes, it would be great to support all depths/rates, so you wouldn't be forced to record all samples at the same quality.
[18:29:43] <Colourless> dir: no idea really.
[18:30:44] <freedman> The code we have now seems to work with all depths/rates; SDL provides a function to do the conversion.
[18:32:59] <freedman> What is ADPCM, and what's wrong/right with it?
[18:34:17] <Dis> adpcm doesn't store a set of samples; instead, it stores only the first sample, and then a set of delta values.
[18:34:32] <Dis> (iiic)
[18:34:44] <freedman> So there's no loss of data?
[18:35:24] <Colourless> Yeah. Also, each delta is affected by the previous one. It's a very lossy form of compressions
[18:35:55] <Colourless> depending on the sound it can be better or worse than 8 bit
[18:35:58] <Dis> the delta's use only 4 (or even 2) bits, so there usually is a loss od quality.
[18:36:03] <Colourless> ADPCM is normally 4 bit
[18:36:03] <freedman> Of course, anything will sound better than the original U7 SFX's.
[18:36:35] <freedman> Isn't there a better scheme?
[18:36:43] <Dis> freedman - only if you're referring to the Adlib SFX. The MT-32 SFX were ok (but not great :)
[18:37:34] <Colourless> everyone loves MP3, but how to get exult to play them :)
[18:37:34] <freedman> It's whatever I'm getting with my SB16, probably the Adlib. Most of the effects sound like pops, beeps, or white noise.
[18:38:00] <freedman> SDL_mixer?
[18:38:31] <freedman> Would MP3's make sense for SFX's? Can we mix them?
[18:38:45] <wjp> what about that new ogg vorbis format?
[18:39:05] <Dis> is the ogg format portable/widely supported?
[18:39:25] <wjp> dunno, haven't had any experience with it
[18:39:45] <freedman> Me neither; but at least it's open-source.
[18:40:18] <freedman> Still, for now, .wav's are easy to deal with. J.Morris's set is only about 5Mb.
[18:40:33] <-- Dis has left IRC (Gotta go. Someone else wants to use this internet connection :))
[18:40:44] <freedman> See ya!
[18:40:58] <wjp> how did you create it? If uploading it is a problem I can easily do it tomorrow from the univ.
[18:41:42] <wjp> I tried the link JM sent a while back, but it's a 404 now
[18:41:56] <Fingolfin> sdl_mixer allows us to play several audio formats....
[18:42:01] <freedman> Used expack with a script to get them in the right order. If I fail tonight, I'll send you the script.
[18:42:05] <Fingolfin> e.g. MP3. Ogg vorbis, Wave...
[18:42:29] <freedman> Fingolfin: Maybe that's what we should be using. I'll start reading about it.
[18:42:36] <Fingolfin> and it does mixing
[18:42:39] <Fingolfin> and it plays MODs
[18:42:43] <Fingolfin> and it works cross platform
[18:42:57] <Fingolfin> and most bigger SDL apps that I know code-wise use it (except exult <g>)
[18:43:01] <freedman> One reason why Dancer did his own: He had to put in some custom code to deal with U7's speech.
[18:43:30] <freedman> ... and it works on the Mac:-)
[18:44:22] <Fingolfin> freedman: now that you mention it.... ;)
[18:44:28] <Fingolfin> ho hum
[18:44:31] <Fingolfin> U7 speech...
[18:44:46] <wjp> Jeff: do you have an URL for JM's .wavs?
[18:45:08] <freedman> wjp: No, just the one in the old list posting.
[18:46:52] <wjp> hmm... interesting... when I use wget at the univ. I get a 404
[18:46:57] <wjp> but here using netscape it works
[18:47:27] <wjp> ah, lynx can d/l it
[18:47:34] <wjp> ah... 200Kb/sec :-)
[18:48:22] <wjp> a zipped rar file?
[18:49:30] <Colourless> good old lynx :)
[18:49:49] <wjp> yeah :-)
[18:50:34] <Colourless> i've used it probably more than I'd want to admit
[18:50:39] <wjp> oooh.... lot's of .wavs
[18:50:49] <wjp> I tend to use 'links' more, lately
[18:51:04] <wjp> Jeff: just stick them in a .flx in the right order?
[18:51:15] <wjp> (right = 0 1 2 3.... 100-something?)
[18:54:52] <freedman> Yes: But there are a few that are numbered funny, and a few missing in the 9x range (so I repeated one to fill in the gaps).
[18:55:16] <Colourless> some numbers aren't use
[18:55:20] <Colourless> d
[18:56:54] <freedman> Right. But I don't think expack allows empty spots. Or does it?
[18:57:06] <Colourless> not as far as I know
[18:57:16] <wjp> ok, I duplicated 91 into the 92-96 range
[18:57:30] <wjp> hmm, there's 76 and 76-b
[18:57:44] <freedman> Wjp: I also included the script, and a README giving J.Morris credit.
[18:58:14] <wjp> I didn't really use a script
[18:58:27] <wjp> just a loop that outputs 0-114 into a file
[18:59:06] <freedman> I'm thinking of a '-i' script for expack, where the 1st line is the output name, and the others are the inputs.
[18:59:15] <wjp> ok, I now have a 5903102 wavsfx.flx
[18:59:24] <wjp> yes, that's what I did
[18:59:48] <wjp> insert 'byte' somewhere in that sentence :-)
[19:00:25] <freedman> Sounds about right. You can try it out by adding the appropriate path in .exult.cfg (which I changed last night; see Audio.cc)
[19:00:38] <wjp> I have to download it first :-(
[19:01:13] <freedman> Well, I'll try to upload my version again tonight if you haven't already done so.
[19:01:38] <wjp> I can upload it easily. (If I know whereto)
[19:01:59] <wjp> (and if it's possible to do it from a command-line)
[19:02:04] <freedman> If everything's working, you should hear birds chirping during the day, and crickets at night:-)
[19:02:36] <Colourless> heh, those are midi tracks
[19:03:30] <freedman> ER, guess I did that wrong, then...
[19:04:13] <Colourless> my converter doesn't work on them, because the instruments in the are custom instruments
[19:04:36] <freedman> Are those among the other midi tracks?
[19:05:16] <Colourless> yes. they are 'songs' 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8
[19:05:42] <freedman> So we could just play the appropriate one when nothing else is playing?
[19:05:59] <Colourless> yes, but it will quite literally sound like crap
[19:06:23] <Colourless> also 52 is the in cave/dungeon track
[19:06:40] <freedman> Okay, I'll just stick with the random chirps that I added last night (class Background_noise)
[19:07:21] <freedman> Is there any way we can get the info. to play the tracks correctly? What do we need?
[19:08:11] <Colourless> not really.
[19:09:14] <Colourless> i was going to add support for the track for people who are using a music flx that had been modified. I've got some fairly decent sounding conversions of the tracks
[19:09:15] <freedman> Oh, well. It might be fun to record our own original tracks.
[19:10:41] <freedman> Anyway, I should be getting my mind back to work. Later.
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[19:10:55] <wjp|studying> back to work for me too...
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[20:03:40] <Colourless> i'm going now
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[21:28:37] <wjp|studying> wow... we're getting quite a lot of downloads
[21:28:42] <wjp|studying> 1000's of 'em
[21:29:38] <wjp|studying> 636 MacOS downloads?!? I'm impressed
[21:30:16] <wjp|studying> and 1400 BeOS downloads of alpha1
[21:30:48] <wjp|studying> not bad... not bad at all
[21:56:50] <Fingolfin> woa
[21:56:55] <Fingolfin> I am impressed, too ;)
[21:57:04] <Fingolfin> how's your studying going?
[21:57:10] <Fingolfin> when do you write the exam exactly?
[21:57:10] <wjp|studying> so-so
[21:57:14] <wjp|studying> tomorrow
[21:57:23] <wjp|studying> 11am :-(
[21:57:24] <Fingolfin> you are not really studying, are you? just pretending, right? ;)
[21:57:28] <Fingolfin> tsa
[21:57:30] <wjp|studying> atm, yes :-)
[21:57:38] <Fingolfin> I will wish you good luck when I get up ;)
[21:57:44] <wjp|studying> thanks :-)
[22:00:28] <chimera|work> AH HA!!!
[22:00:37] <chimera|work> just as I thought! no work is being done in this channel! hehe
[22:00:45] <chimera|work> it's all fun and games!
[22:02:10] <wjp|studying> shhh! nobody's supposed to know that! ;-)
[22:02:40] <chimera|work> oh sorry =]
[22:03:07] <wjp|studying> :-)
[22:08:23] <Fingolfin> games....
[22:08:28] <Fingolfin> except exult of course ;)
[22:08:39] * Fingolfin is implementing transposition tables in his LoA AI right now
[22:08:39] <wjp|studying> hehe :-)
[22:08:58] <wjp|studying> LoA? ok, so it means Lines of Action... but what is it?
[22:09:21] <chimera|work> yes what is it?
[22:09:22] <chimera|work> dangit!
[22:10:01] <wjp|studying> :-)
[22:10:16] <chimera|work> are you doing AI for exult?
[22:10:21] <chimera|work> or some unrelated project
[22:10:28] <wjp|studying> school project
[22:10:33] <chimera|work> hmmm...
[22:10:38] <wjp|studying> (or univ.)
[22:10:47] <chimera|work> I think I am going to take the AI class next year
[22:10:53] <wjp|studying> speaking of which... I should go back to studying :-)
[22:11:00] <chimera|work> yes, get wookin, boy!
[22:11:21] <wjp|studying> silly statistics exam tomorrow
[22:11:22] * wjp|studying sighs
[22:17:57] <Fingolfin> Lines of Action is a nice board game...
[22:18:02] <Fingolfin> search on Google for description
[22:18:07] <Fingolfin> or I can give you an URL I guess ;)
[22:24:00] <chimera|work> no that's ok
[22:24:18] <chimera|work> I was just wondering if you were making the Utima 7 monsters smart =]
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