#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Mar 2003 (GMT)

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[01:29:38] <ShadwChsr> evenin
[01:31:02] <Fingolfin> yo
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[01:34:50] <ShadwChsr> hi
[01:36:57] <Kirben> Hi
[01:45:25] <Servus> hi
[01:52:22] <ShadwChsr> Servus: did some major updating, C:\GameRes is no longer hardcoded, game settings are lodaded dynamically again :)
[01:52:35] <ShadwChsr> Also got some help with more isometric math, so alot of the code is fixed & improved
[01:54:02] <Servus> cool
[01:54:26] <Servus> was gonna remake it into a binary quad tree or something, but my gf just called me and ive gotta talk to her hummm
[01:58:29] <ShadwChsr> remake what?
[01:58:31] <ShadwChsr> your game? :)
[01:58:39] <Servus> my map format
[02:01:52] <Servus> http://4.60.125.19/images/misc/Engine16.jpg
[02:02:02] <Servus> see the zillions of wasted triangles?
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[02:12:38] <ShadwChsr> ooo triangles
[02:12:39] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[02:12:56] <ShadwChsr> its not wasted though, since you get vertex lighting on them :)
[02:13:58] <Servus> it's wasted
[02:14:07] <Servus> im not even gonna use vertex lighting in my final version
[02:14:13] <Servus> gonna use a lightmap
[02:30:43] * ShadwChsr thinks
[02:30:51] <ShadwChsr> oh did you ever get it to compile?
[02:31:29] <Servus> no i dont have .net installed yet
[02:32:34] <Servus> im trying to figure out exactly how to do a quadtree
[02:43:08] <ShadwChsr> :)
[02:45:20] <Servus> http://4.60.125.19/images/misc/Engine17.jpg
[02:45:32] <Servus> that's how the quads are sposed to look, pretty much
[02:46:19] <ShadwChsr> :)
[02:46:42] <ShadwChsr> Thanks for the help last night, btw
[02:46:48] <ShadwChsr> I had math dreams all night! ahhhh
[02:46:48] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[02:47:12] <Servus> hehe, yw, hope it was helpful
[02:47:15] <Servus> i woke up with a headache :-p
[02:47:27] <Servus> see how that will save polygons though?
[02:47:31] <ShadwChsr> nah I dreamed i was in grade 12 math class again
[02:47:41] <ShadwChsr> yeah, but personally I would just render them seperately
[02:47:49] <ShadwChsr> a few ground polys wont hurt
[02:47:56] <ShadwChsr> its the character, tree, building polys that will :)
[02:47:58] <Servus> with a system like that, i can see for miles ahead of me with high FPS, and it'll make it easier to make terrain features far away lower-detail
[02:48:05] <Servus> a few ground polys will hurt
[02:48:13] <Servus> try 100,000 textured polygons vs 2000 :-)
[02:48:55] <Servus> when youre viewing a large, large terrain with unlimited visibility in wireframe mode, you'll notice how there are so many triangles far away that it just looks like a big solid object, there are so many wires
[02:50:04] <Servus> for a terrain to be efficiently rendered, all triangles should take up about the same number of pixels on screen, so close-up triangles will be rendered in fine detail, and far away triangles will be rendered in low detail, ( large patches of ground covered with a single triangle in the background ) this will make all triangles take up more-or-less the same amount of screen-space, preserving the visual fidelity of near-by
[02:53:40] <Servus> as you can see from my picture, i've got a pretty good ( i hope! ) idea of how to do this on a non-interactive level, and i know how to decide if a patch needs to be subdivided or not ( epsilon delta of all face normals in leaf node compared to some error constant ), yet im still struggling with the very concept of how to successfully maintain a quadtree (a sort of binary space partition that works by subdividing a square
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[09:49:51] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: An open-source engine for Ultima 7: The Black Gate and The Serpent Isle; http://exult.sf.net/
[09:49:51] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Mon Jan 27 20:56:39 2003
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[09:50:25] <wjp> hi
[09:50:39] <Yuv422> hey
[09:53:53] <Servus> hihi
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[10:03:25] <Servus> hi
[10:04:27] <Servus> darnit where's telemachos? :-)
[10:17:35] * wjp looks at pretty picture of quadtree
[10:22:00] <Servus> hehe, thanks :)
[10:25:52] <Servus> now... any idea on how to actually implement it? *grin*
[10:27:09] <wjp> I've implemented a couple, yes
[10:27:24] <wjp> but not for use in 3d engines
[10:28:10] <Servus> something similar though? could I see? :-)
[10:28:42] <wjp> code is long gone :-)
[10:29:15] <wjp> the basic idea is just a tree, though
[10:29:17] <Servus> any ideas then?
[10:29:28] <Servus> im not sure how to effectively implement it, im thinking of a linked list but linked lists... icky
[10:30:14] <wjp> I usually use a real tree structure. Each node has either four children or zero children
[10:30:55] <wjp> look-ups are then a matter of descending the tree from the root until you end up at a leaf
[10:30:59] <Servus> yes that's precisely what i want, but how, if you have the time to spare for me? :-)
[10:31:19] <Servus> yes ive got it all planned out on paper, it's just the actual code implementation that leaves itself... ambiguous to me
[10:31:30] <wjp> class Node { Node* child[4]; }; ?
[10:31:50] <wjp> (and add some fields for the actual data, of course)
[10:31:56] <Servus> youve got node 0, which is the ENTIRE map, then nodes 0.0,0.1,0.2,0.3 which are the four quarters of the map, then the top-left quarter (0.0) can be divided into 0.0.0,0.0.1,0.0.2,0.0.3
[10:32:06] * wjp nods
[10:33:00] <Servus> guess ill read up on BSP structures... dammit i'm gonna feel smart for a while :-)
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[12:26:40] <Yuv422> I've got the base map loaded in. and can now scroll around the world. :)
[12:26:55] <Yuv422> Lord B's castle looks a bit bare without objects though ;)
[12:27:06] <wjp> cool :-)
[12:27:28] <Yuv422> let me take a screenshot.
[12:27:29] <wjp> next step: objects? :-)
[12:27:34] <Yuv422> yup
[12:27:42] <Yuv422> and probably animated tiles
[12:28:04] <Yuv422> I've cheated and loaded the whole map in to ram. :(
[12:28:11] <Yuv422> 1024x1024 tiles
[12:28:40] <Yuv422> I'll keep the objects in their super chunks to speed up searching though.
[12:28:56] <wjp> how big are superchunks in u6?
[12:29:12] <Yuv422> 16x16 chunks which are 8x8 tiles.
[12:29:32] <Yuv422> there are only 1024 distinct chunks though. :)
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[12:56:02] <Yuv422> anybody know how to turn key repeats on in SDL?
[12:56:31] <Yuv422> ah found it
[13:17:08] <Yuv422> I'm off to bed. catch you guys later.
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[13:57:48] <Colourless> hi
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[19:55:11] <artaxerxes> hi all
[19:55:32] <artaxerxes> just 10 more !!! I'm getting so excited !
[19:57:35] <artaxerxes> 3 books, 1 pannel, 2 converstations and 4 from SS.
[19:58:39] <artaxerxes> ?logs
[19:58:39] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[20:00:26] <wjp> hi
[20:00:36] <wjp> nice :-)
[20:01:14] <artaxerxes> oups... my mistake.... 3 more conversations and 3 from SS
[20:01:25] <artaxerxes> Beryl is not the mage from SS after all! :)
[20:01:59] <wjp> who is it, then?
[20:02:11] <artaxerxes> the woman in the northern forest
[20:02:17] <wjp> ah, of course
[20:02:40] <artaxerxes> did you follow the outcome of the conversation between Ryan and me about i18n ?
[20:02:45] <wjp> no
[20:03:15] <artaxerxes> He got tons of ideas and proposed exactly what to do but he doesnt have time to do it and my c++ hurts
[20:03:34] <artaxerxes> the logs should say it all
[20:03:42] <wjp> which date?
[20:03:52] <artaxerxes> hmmmm.... about a week ago (?)
[20:05:14] <artaxerxes> 7th
[20:05:25] <artaxerxes> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3?log=7Mar2003
[20:06:14] <artaxerxes> 17h05
[20:09:18] <wjp> hm, yes, sounds reasonable
[20:11:13] <artaxerxes> do you think I should talk to Jeff about it? After all, the translation is almost finished and it is kind of silly to have some english in the text.
[20:12:15] <artaxerxes> I could technically take a snapshot of CVS and translate there too but then I'd have to make version for all those OSes out there... :(
[20:12:35] <wjp> bad idea, that :-)
[20:13:53] <wjp> step one would probably be to get rid of the hardcoded strings
[20:14:04] <wjp> move them to an xml file, probably
[20:14:18] <wjp> then we could add some really simple infrastructure from reading it from another file
[20:14:31] <artaxerxes> that would be kickin'
[20:14:33] <wjp> once that's running nicely would could expand it to include shapes
[20:14:39] <artaxerxes> ohhhh
[20:14:39] <wjp> s/would/we/
[20:15:01] <artaxerxes> like having a pointer to a flex ?
[20:15:14] <artaxerxes> the fun thing is, I never think of those shapes!
[20:16:55] <wjp> they're the annoying part :-)
[20:19:38] <artaxerxes> actually, not really. If them can simply be put in a separate flex, then all I have to do is to provide a replacement for them!
[20:19:59] <wjp> it's the "simply" part that's the annoying part :-)
[20:20:07] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:20:34] <artaxerxes> you say this 'cause some come from the original files? (like save/load)
[20:20:45] <wjp> which flex? how do you know which flex? what happens when it's not in that flex? how/where do we load that flex? ...
[20:20:57] <wjp> lots and lots of tiny annoying implementation details :-)
[20:21:15] <artaxerxes> I see
[20:21:48] <artaxerxes> and not only which flex, but also with object in the flex, right ?
[20:21:54] * wjp nods
[20:24:33] * artaxerxes has done 16% of the 10th file
[20:25:09] <artaxerxes> this is really a colossal task! I hope people will enjoy! :/
[20:26:22] <artaxerxes> brb
[20:29:59] <artaxerxes> b
[20:35:31] <wjp> wb
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[20:37:38] <wjp> hi
[20:38:04] <Dominus> hi
[20:38:23] <Dominus> artaxerxes: can't wait for you to finish your project
[20:38:54] <artaxerxes> hi
[20:38:57] <Dominus> not that I want to play SI in french but I appreciate the effort of you and whoever helped you
[20:39:04] <artaxerxes> thx'
[20:39:27] <artaxerxes> it is my Quest of Courage! :)
[20:39:35] * Dominus wonders if he even mentions the project in the FAQ or elsewhere...
[20:39:50] <artaxerxes> it's in the links of the web site
[20:40:27] <Dominus> yeah but I should mention it where I list the different languages of BG/SI
[20:40:43] <artaxerxes> next step when that's done and totally finished: Century. I've polished the scenario and I think I've got something solid and original
[20:41:00] <artaxerxes> be my guest! :)
[20:41:08] <Dominus> he he
[20:41:43] <artaxerxes> I think I'd more distressed to have no-one using it than having people complaining over the quality!
[20:41:52] <Dominus> Century and whatever Karl is doing are on my list of things to look forward to
[20:42:16] <Dominus> I hope people will make use of it
[20:43:14] <Dominus> I even think we should put a notice on the Exult front page and on the forum so people will notice it
[20:43:47] <artaxerxes> well, when all is done and verified! :)
[20:44:34] <Dominus> puh, exult takes a while to get compiled nowadays
[20:45:13] <wjp> it always did :-)
[20:45:49] <Dominus> yeah, but it seems to take a much longer now...
[20:46:00] <Dominus> a clean one at least
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[21:11:52] <wjp> hi Max
[21:11:57] <Dominus> hi
[21:12:23] <artaxerxes> hi
[21:20:58] <Fingolfin> hiya
[21:21:10] <Dominus> ?version
[21:21:10] <exultbot> The latest official version of Exult is: 0.99.1rc2
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[21:21:25] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: An open-source engine for Ultima 7: The Black Gate and The Serpent Isle; http://exult.sf.net/
[21:21:25] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Mon Jan 27 20:56:39 2003
[21:21:27] <Dominus> he he
[21:21:30] <Dominus> ?version
[21:21:30] <exultbot> The latest official version of Exult is: 1.0
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[21:25:34] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: An open-source engine for Ultima 7: The Black Gate and The Serpent Isle; http://exult.sf.net/
[21:25:34] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Mon Jan 27 20:56:39 2003
[21:28:49] <wjp> bbl
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[21:49:52] <artaxerxes> who is takhisis ?
[21:50:00] <artaxerxes> he's in the list of the dev team.
[21:59:34] <artaxerxes> I got to go too.
[21:59:44] * artaxerxes has done 46% of the 10th file
[21:59:49] <artaxerxes> see ya around!
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