#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Dec 2001 (GMT)

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[00:41:50] <wjp> hi
[00:52:11] <S|NOTLOVE> bye
[02:20:57] * wjp has to go
[02:20:57] <wjp> bye
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[03:43:39] --- Topic for #exult is: exult: exult? exult! (... that you don't get dropped every 30 minutes... <fluff> or just go play Ultima7)
[03:43:39] --- Topic for #exult set by Darke at Tue Dec 11 14:56:41 2001
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[03:55:06] <comat0se> being on split servers sucks
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[04:13:14] <comat0se> man, peeps who attack OPN are lame...
[04:13:19] <comat0se> man, peeps who attack OPN are lame...
[04:13:26] <comat0se> um
[04:13:27] <comat0se> yeah
[04:13:51] <comat0se> of all the people they attack, gotta attack open source...
[04:14:47] <comat0se> |=
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[04:31:02] <comat0se> if (GAME_BG) {
[04:31:02] <comat0se> // set Spark to translucent. Otherwise his pant will palette-cycle
[04:31:02] <comat0se> info[489].tfa[2] |= (1<<7);
[04:31:02] <comat0se> info[489].set_tfa_data();
[04:31:02] <comat0se> }
[04:31:20] <comat0se> sparkle sparkle
[04:42:01] <comat0se> Shine on, you crazy Spark, shine on.
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[07:41:16] * Darke greetingsbows.
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[08:04:01] <Darke> Hello.
[08:36:28] <sbx> hi
[08:38:50] <sbx> [04:28:58] --> comat0se has joined #exult
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[08:38:50] <sbx> [04:31:02] <comat0se> if (GAME_BG) {
[08:38:50] <sbx> [04:31:02] <comat0se> // set Spark to translucent. Otherwise his pant will palette-cycle
[08:38:50] <sbx> [04:31:02] <comat0se> info[489].tfa[2] |= (1<<7);
[08:38:51] <sbx> [04:31:02] <comat0se> info[489].set_tfa_data();
[08:38:53] <sbx> [04:31:02] <comat0se> }
[08:38:55] <sbx> [04:31:20] <comat0se> sparkle sparkle
[08:38:57] <sbx> [04:42:01] <comat0se> Shine on, you crazy Spark, shine on.
[08:38:59] <sbx> [04:47:10] <-- comat0se has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[08:39:05] <sbx> ... ?
[08:43:54] <Darke> I don't know. One of those shiny pants people I presume.
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[08:45:12] <Darke> Hmm...
[08:45:29] * sbx pawwaves at Darke.
[08:46:11] <Darke> Hello again. Had to drop because the server was throwing errors at me, every time I tried to say something.
[08:46:23] <Darke> There it goes again.
[08:46:52] <sbx> --- IDLE :Unknown command
[08:46:59] <sbx> is that it?
[08:47:05] <Darke> Yep.
[08:47:34] <sbx> Topic for #openprojects is Welcome to the Open Projects network administration channel! || http://openprojects.net/ Please try and ignore the IDLE messages for the time being... we'll try to have them fixed and gone as soon as we're able. Thank you.
[08:48:12] <Darke> Ahh... that could be the reason. <grin>
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[09:03:31] <es_bee_eks> "SB-X can also be translated as An Wis, No Brains."
[09:14:04] * Darke snickers.
[09:15:33] <es_bee_eks> that was in "Question about Ultima" :-)
[09:25:28] <Darke> <grin> I know, I saw that thread.
[10:01:27] <es_bee_eks> Darke
[10:04:28] <es_bee_eks> nevermind
[11:59:44] <es_bee_eks> netscape sucks
[12:00:06] <es_bee_eks> relatively speaking
[12:12:31] <Darke> Mozilla is better. <grin> Except for the last build, which apparently broke quite a few things badly.
[12:14:01] <es_bee_eks> I've tried NS6 but found it to be a hog... I figured Mozilla was the same but I read that as they reach release version they will optimize it.
[12:15:01] <es_bee_eks> When I said "netscape sucks" I meant version 4.something... and was referring to not being able to load a Flash document because I didn't have Flash installed(although I think Flash sucks too).
[12:22:07] <es_bee_eks> I know you probably think NS6 is not as bad as I think it is, seeing that you run KDE and KDevelop together with ease... but my computer is slow.
[12:22:14] <es_bee_eks> :-)
[12:33:49] * Darke grins and proceeds to look... umm... computationally deprived.
[12:34:19] * es_bee_eks gives Darke a carrot.
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[12:35:17] * Darke thankfulfluffs and nibbles on the carrot as he bows to Colourless. "Hi!"
[12:35:57] <es_bee_eks> hi
[12:37:10] <Colourless> hi
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[12:52:50] <wjp> hi
[12:53:06] <Colourless> hi
[12:53:27] <Darke> Hello.
[12:54:18] <es_bee_eks> hi
[12:56:32] * Darke is currently playing "sort 70Gigs of files" like he has been for the last few days. He wishes there was some sane sort of backup medium for this amount of files.
[12:56:58] <Colourless> another hard drive :-)
[12:57:01] <wjp> well, there was a /. story on this last week
[12:57:10] <wjp> yes, another hard drive was a popular suggestion :-)
[12:57:59] <Darke> <grin> That's pretty much my only option, yes. I'm still waiting to get my 30Gig IBM harddrive back from RA.
[13:01:13] * es_bee_eks stil plans to move the contents of his 8G to his 30G... when he gets around to it.
[13:02:48] <Darke> sbx: I forsee, within 6 months, that 30Gig will be completely full, and you'll be wanting to purchase another hd to dump junk on. <grin>
[13:07:20] * Darke is continually amazed at the junk he's finding. A gig of avi's of StarTrek TNG, which I copied accidentally from a friends hd... 10 months ago? Now deleted.
[13:08:56] <es_bee_eks> Well normally I am conservative about it and it would take a lot longer than 6months... but with a lot of free space I guess I might stop deleting things just because I think there is no way it will ever fill up.
[13:09:10] <es_bee_eks> are you on cable Darke?
[13:09:19] * Darke watches sbx Get The Point(tm). <grin>
[13:09:26] <es_bee_eks> hehe
[13:09:28] <Darke> Yep. I'm on cable.
[13:10:08] <Darke> This is why I'm currently digging through my drives deleting and sorting stuff. So far I've managed to cull about 12 Gigs worth of junk.
[13:10:18] <es_bee_eks> Yes, I cannot imagine "accidentally copying" a gigabyte of data at ~26.4kbps.
[13:10:29] <wjp> sbx: lol
[13:11:09] <es_bee_eks> Still you should have sent them to me. :D
[13:11:31] * es_bee_eks takes junk as well.
[13:12:26] <Darke> At the last place I was staying with, with friends we had a collective fileserver for drivers and games and $stuff. So when we went out seperate ways I made a copy of the fileserver, all 20 Gigs of it. This is what I've been sorting through now, and where I deleted those TNG episodes from.
[13:13:18] <Darke> A .chm help file that claims to be a MCSE Training Kit for Win2k Server... deleted.
[13:14:35] * es_bee_eks remembers having to delete stuff on a 640MB disk years ago, and feeling sick afterwards.
[13:15:08] * Darke nods and agrees, except his was 240MB.
[13:16:11] <es_bee_eks> hehe maybe you want to wait for the new HD before deleting your /important/ files? :-)
[13:16:19] <Darke> That's right, I just deleted a futurama episode, a third the side of the harddisk I used for about 6 years or so. <grin>
[13:16:44] * Darke hasn't deleted anything of importance yet. <grin>
[13:16:55] <es_bee_eks> ST TNG and Futurama is important
[13:16:58] <es_bee_eks> :P
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[13:17:35] * es_bee_eks downloaded a Futurama ep yesterday.
[13:20:21] * Darke shrugs, he dislikes most of the ST franchise, although Voyager had a couple of good moments.
[13:20:21] <Darke> This was just the pilot episode, it's everywhere abouts. And if I do happen to want to watch it sometime in the future, I just have to harrass a friend and get it back off him.
[13:20:44] <wjp> ...unless he deleted it too expecting to be able to get it back from you ;-)
[13:22:29] * Darke giggles, he just tripped over a pdf copy of "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Amazing Sex". We're teaching them how to procreate?!? Why? The world needs less idiots! <grin>
[13:22:56] <Darke> wjp: Not likely. <grin> He knows of my... lack of ethusiasm for watching TV in general, and those shows in specific.
[13:23:10] <wjp> :-)
[13:25:07] * es_bee_eks has a document titled "The Complete Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge in Fantasy Role-Playing Games."
[13:25:13] <Darke> I've just deleted my 7th copy of the win98se installation cab files, the 5th copy from that fileserver. I get the impression no-one ever sorted that server's directory structure out.
[13:25:46] <Darke> sbx: <grin> I've got that floating around somewhere as well, I haven't seen it for years. IIRC, it was quite a fun document to read.
[13:27:12] <Darke> Ahh... here's the important stuff. 3Gig of MacGyver mpegs.
[13:28:39] <es_bee_eks> "Thank you senor MacGyver! Once again you have saved our village." "Don't thank me, thank the moon's gravitational pull."
[13:29:48] * Darke giggles, he never remembers MacGyver being _that_ modest. <grin>
[13:46:41] --- Colourless is now known as Cless|busy
[13:48:50] <wjp> hmm, looks like for at least 3 people on the forum exult crashes on starting a new si game
[13:48:52] <wjp> not good
[13:49:33] <es_bee_eks> i wonder why
[13:50:48] <es_bee_eks> i really thought it was the 'gamedat' thing
[13:51:01] <es_bee_eks> (being corrupted)
[13:57:03] <Darke> Anything in common with all of them?
[13:57:35] <wjp> well, at least have spaces in the path to SI, but I'm not sure that could cause it
[13:57:45] <wjp> s/at least/at least 2/
[13:58:55] <Darke> Beta or latest snapshot? I might as well try it on my doze machine as well.
[13:59:06] <wjp> beta
[13:59:40] <wjp> hmm, would exult crash if you still have a gamedat dir from the original?
[14:00:14] <Cless|busy> it will crash if you attempt to continue the game
[14:00:23] --- Cless|busy is now known as Colourless
[14:00:45] <Colourless> i don't have any problems starting a new game here
[14:01:00] <wjp> they're starting a new game according to their stdout's
[14:01:07] * Darke nods, he's just trying too add another datapoint.
[14:01:36] <wjp> Kurt has emailed me his gamedat dir., btw. No problems with it, but it does contain both SI & exult data
[14:01:53] <wjp> (and newgame.ver contains 'Unknown')
[14:02:30] <Colourless> odd
[14:02:52] <Colourless> you are saying they have spaces in the path names?
[14:02:57] <wjp> yeah
[14:03:08] <wjp> is_installed: d:\games\ultima vii - part i - black gate/static/endgame.dat
[14:03:42] <wjp> (and similar for SI)
[14:05:54] <Colourless> no problems with spaces here
[14:06:57] <Colourless> do they still have problems after deleting gamedat?
[14:07:22] <wjp> well, Kurt claims he does, but he seems to be mixing up gamedats
[14:08:08] <Darke> It works for me with 'c:\program files\exult\ultima 7' and 'c:\program files\exult\serpent isle' although it did lock up with a black screen upon first attempt to run.
[14:08:50] <Colourless> which version of windows?
[14:10:19] <Darke> win98se, patched up to 'current' with windowsupdate. It crashed just after outputting 'Data path = data' in stdout and nothing in stderr. It ran fine on it's second run.
[14:16:38] <es_bee_eks> completely unrelated but found on alt.os.linux and amusing: "Don't worry, the Wine effort has been succussful in running a few virus (but, alas, with reduced effectiveness). With more effort, they should be able to get a majority of them working."
[14:18:55] <wjp> yeah, I read about that :-)
[14:21:33] <Darke> <grin> I know, it's rather... impressive. For weird values thereof.
[14:34:39] * wjp is trying to figure out U8's usecode... (just for fun)
[14:34:52] <wjp> why did they have to shuffle all opcodes around?
[14:35:10] <Darke> wjp: Sure. Right. _Just_ for fun. <nod> Absolutely. <grin>
[14:35:13] <es_bee_eks> jsf wanted to make a u7 map viewer (just for fun) no?
[14:35:30] <wjp> *grin*
[14:35:33] <wjp> sbx: yeah :-)
[14:36:01] <Darke> (opcodes) No doubt because they re-wrote the engine. You have to admit the current 'sorting' of opcode numbers to functions, doesn't exactly group them together all that well.
[14:36:23] * wjp doesn't see much of an improvement in the order
[14:37:00] <Darke> They don't group all the pushes together or all the string functions together or all the comparison functions together?
[14:37:18] <wjp> well, the pushes do seem to be together
[14:37:29] <wjp> (0A = push byte, 0B = push short, 0D = push string)
[14:37:41] <wjp> (haven't seen a 0C yet)
[14:37:59] * Darke nods.
[14:38:02] <es_bee_eks> how do you know what each number does?
[14:38:11] <wjp> you guess
[14:38:18] <wjp> and then you guess some more
[14:38:29] <wjp> and then you find some guesses actually make sense
[14:38:34] <es_bee_eks> i thought you just started
[14:38:42] <wjp> last night
[14:38:55] <wjp> I've been staring for about 4 hours now
[14:38:59] <es_bee_eks> oh
[14:39:16] <wjp> oh, they also moved strings to inside the actual code
[14:39:29] <Darke> Then things make more sense and you can make a couple more guesses, then you find one or two of your guesses were based on a flawed hypothesis and then... <grin>
[14:39:37] <wjp> right :-)
[14:39:51] <Colourless> STOP NOW!
[14:39:56] <Colourless> DO NOT CONTINUE!
[14:39:59] <Darke> (strings) Sounds like a good thing, it makes it a bit easier not having to worry about data and code segments.
[14:40:00] <Colourless> YOU WILL REGRET IT!
[14:40:14] <Colourless> :-)
[14:40:15] <Darke> (guessing) I've reverse-engineered a few file formats over the years. <grin>
[14:40:19] <wjp> /kick Colourless kill the caps :-)
[14:40:49] <Darke> YOU MEAN IF I TALK LIKE THIS, THEN I CAN GET COLOURLESS TO KICK ME?
[14:40:51] <wjp> Darke: yeah, those strings also help a lot with getting the first few ideas
[14:40:58] <-- Darke was kicked from #exult by wjp (no, me)
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[14:41:05] <wjp> ;-)
[14:41:11] * Darke giggles.
[14:41:46] <wjp> sorry about that :-)
[14:42:32] <Colourless> you are not sorry!
[14:42:39] <wjp> that's true :-)
[14:42:51] <Darke> <grin> Have you worked out enough of the file format that I can hack a 'read' function for it into ucxt, so you can start creating a opcodes.txt for u8?
[14:42:53] <Colourless> :-)
[14:43:14] <wjp> Darke: no, I don't have a clue about the global file structure yet
[14:43:50] <wjp> well, other than that bytes 4-7 are the filesize :-)
[14:44:52] <Colourless> isn't it a flex?
[14:44:58] <wjp> yeah
[14:45:11] <wjp> I meant the files/objects inside the flex
[14:45:40] <Darke> wjp: Well, get working then. <grin> I'm interested in how flexable this frame work I made is. Plus it will almost certainly flush a few of the more... interesting bugs out into the open where I can kill them.
[14:46:12] <wjp> maybe I should write a quick'n'dirty disassembler
[14:46:20] <wjp> might help to make it a bit more readable
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[14:47:14] <es_bee_eks> Darke: does it decompile C64 BASIC yet? :-) or whatever you started it for
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[14:47:25] <wjp> I wish I knew how to connect an object to a usecode function
[14:47:34] <es_bee_eks> shapenum?
[14:47:42] <wjp> no, tried that
[14:47:43] * Darke nods, "That's kind of the theory I was working on. Bootstrap ucxt into dumping something vaguely more readable out. But creating a quick hack would probably be... quicker."
[14:47:56] <Colourless> hmm, that was really odd. i think i just accidently logged myself out of windows.
[14:48:29] <Darke> sbx: (basic) Not yet. <grin> This is currently more interesting.
[14:49:33] <wjp> Colourless: accidently? how?
[14:49:42] <wjp> Colourless: windows equivalent of X's Ctrl-Alt-Backspace?
[14:49:55] <Colourless> i think i hit the windows key by accident while typing
[14:51:21] <wjp> hmm, maybe it _is_ shapenum after all, but slightly translated
[14:51:41] * wjp notices the code for the abacus (sh. 375) is in 377.u7o
[14:51:49] <wjp> umm, u8o, sorry :-)
[14:51:59] * Darke snickers.
[14:53:26] <wjp> hmm, the code for the abacus looks like a goldmine
[14:54:07] <Colourless> question: why are you doing this? :-)
[14:54:15] <wjp> it's fun :-)
[14:54:26] * Darke agrees with wjp.
[15:12:11] <wjp> hmm, I think I just figured out the global file format
[15:12:35] <wjp> it seems there's a bunch of pointers at the start of the file that correspond to what we call 'eventid's
[15:13:19] <Darke> <grin> Sounds like they did another thing somewhat 'saner'.
[15:13:23] <wjp> yup
[15:13:56] <wjp> gets rid of the necessary switch (eventid) statement
[15:15:11] * Darke nods.
[15:27:41] * wjp looks at the code for the divination spell
[15:27:54] <wjp> funny... "The focus reads that I am at Progammer's Playland!" ?
[15:28:26] <wjp> (my typo, btw)
[15:29:01] * Darke blinks. Weird. Any idea what that means? I 'secret' debugging thing?
[15:29:30] <wjp> I'll see if I can find the map number that that corresponds too
[15:29:37] <wjp> s/too/to/
[15:29:55] * wjp can then use his "just for fun" map viewer to take a peek :-)
[15:30:10] * Darke snerks.
[15:30:45] <es_bee_eks> next you will find a message somewhere in there "How to keep a person who is reverse engineering this file busy? See function xxx"
[15:30:56] <wjp> :-)
[15:31:18] <Colourless> of course, you'd have the code actually not do that :-)
[15:34:24] <wjp> pity... it seems that 'programmer's playground' map is empty
[15:37:40] <es_bee_eks> A single chest lies in the center of Programmer's Playland. Inside is a scroll which reads "Avatar, this is Smith! I have sent this enchanted scroll to Pagan with an important clue: 'Find the Black Gate and stop the Guardian from entering Britannia'. Not sure what it means!"
[15:38:07] <wjp> hehe :-)
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[15:45:10] <es_bee_eks> :-(
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[15:49:27] <es_bee_eks> :-)
[15:49:30] <Colourless> got to disconnect. be back soon
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[15:49:45] <es_bee_eks> :-(
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[15:57:43] <es_bee_eks> :-)
[15:59:22] <-- es_bee_eks has left IRC ("Push push push, add jmp mul pop, push call sub mod, in smth say...")
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[16:02:27] <es_bee_eks> got to go
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[16:05:25] * Darke must disappear for sleep now. He expects wjp to have completed working out the file format by tommorrow, so he can implement it. <grin> "Bye all!"
[16:06:06] <-- Darke has left IRC ()
[16:06:07] <Colourless> cya
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[20:26:53] <matto> ?seen freedman
[20:26:53] <exultbot> freedman left IRC around Tue Dec 4 21:00:19 2001 (GMT) ("Leaving")
[20:27:14] <matto> I found a slashdot post by me that freedman replied to
[20:27:25] <matto> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21628&cid=2303629
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[23:43:44] --- Topic for #exult is: exult: exult? exult! (... that you don't get dropped every 30 minutes... <fluff> or just go play Ultima7)
[23:43:44] --- Topic for #exult set by Darke at Tue Dec 11 14:56:41 2001
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