#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Jan 2003 (GMT)

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[01:36:27] <Servus> lalala
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[07:15:15] <Servus> hello
[07:16:23] <Darke> Hiya.
[07:16:28] <Servus> indeed!
[07:16:43] <Servus> youre the first person to speak in here for five and a half years, counting interest
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[07:26:24] <Servus> hello
[07:26:38] <Kirben> Hi
[07:27:00] <Servus> bloody boring in these set of rooms lately
[07:27:42] <Darke> As per usual. *grin*
[07:27:53] <Servus> :(
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[07:35:22] <Servus> hi... again
[07:43:54] <Kirben> re
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[07:47:49] * Servus no more his for the frequent-flier
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[08:02:18] <Servus> 'elo
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[09:08:30] <wjp> hi
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[09:16:58] <Darke> Hi!
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[09:18:22] <Servus> hello
[09:18:34] <Servus> no one spoke at ALL yesterday, iread the log
[09:22:03] * Darke wasn't really here at all yesterday to talk to anyone. Whilst he can't really say he has a 'life', it certainly must be closely approaching one if that's the case. *grin*
[09:25:00] <wjp|work> Servus: if the only thing you're doing here is complain about the lack of activity, please do it somewhere else
[09:25:08] <wjp|work> we have other things to do than entertaining you
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[09:29:49] <Servus> unfortunately, that is the only thing _here_ to do... i am quite busy doing other work... but i can take it elsewhere
[09:32:03] <wjp|work> I wouldn't say complaining is the only thing to do here :-)
[09:32:30] <Servus> well until someone else speaks there's not much else... and as a matter of fact im working very hard on the ultima underworld remake
[09:33:11] <Darke> wjp|work: Sure there is! There's sleeping! I do that a *lot*! *grin*
[09:33:25] * Servus noticed
[09:33:26] <wjp|work> :-)
[09:33:36] <Servus> im making a big flying brain with teeth, what do you expect
[09:33:42] <Darke> Oooooh! And don't forget idling too!
[09:33:43] <Servus> actually i think it's pretty spiffy
[09:33:54] <wjp|work> those UW2 brain monsters?
[09:34:45] <Servus> yes, its 99% done
[09:35:14] <Servus> wanna see?
[09:35:20] <wjp|work> sure :-)
[09:35:32] <Servus> just a sec
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[09:38:29] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/brainiac.jpg
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[09:38:46] <Servus> little bit of texturing problems, but nearly done
[09:39:18] <wjp|work> cute :-)
[09:39:32] <Servus> cute?!?! it's a ferocious man eating BEAST! those type of things aren't cute!!!
[09:39:39] <Servus> (or something:P)
[09:40:34] <wjp|work> kawaii, then? :-)
[09:40:52] <Servus> kawaii?
[09:41:21] <wjp|work> a.ka. cute :-)
[09:42:50] <Servus> but it's a ferocious man-eating beast!
[09:42:59] * Darke oooohs and agrees with the 'cute' statement!
[09:43:03] <Servus> now i'll have to change it in the game to kill you in one hit just to make up for the "cute" factor:(
[09:43:22] <Servus> There! i gave it really big teeth! ferocious, non-cute teeth!
[09:44:03] * Darke suggests changing the texturing of it so it doesn't look like a big fluffy, flying gerbil or something.
[09:44:47] * Darke guesses Servus hasn't seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail then. *grin*
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[09:45:28] <Servus> i own it
[09:45:34] <Servus> thats what i was thinking of, actually
[09:45:46] <Servus> but... it really does look like a brain! honest! ill get a side-shot to prove it
[09:46:32] <slacked> Servus
[09:46:43] <slacked> linux rules
[09:46:47] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/brainiac2.jpg
[09:46:49] * slacked waits for another argument to brew
[09:47:08] <Servus> i develop for linux (SDL) but i dont run it due to personal preferences ;)
[09:47:41] <slacked> :P
[09:47:50] <slacked> oh btw, i got wine working
[09:48:01] <slacked> turns out CVS winex is broken or something
[09:48:05] <Servus> whats wrong with pabst blue ribbon
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[09:48:52] <slacked> hows the uw2 project going?
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[09:50:39] <Servus> no idea, i never ever see coren so i dunno if he's working on it... as far as everything else i know, im the only one working on it (?), and as soon as im done modeling everything i will work on the programming, or email-bomb coren to see where he is
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[09:51:00] <slacked> hehe
[09:51:15] <Servus> wjp did you see the new pic?
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[09:52:51] <Servus> but slacked, if coren is too busy in his personal life, i'll never get it done myself because i always start focusing on tiny details, then i never get anything big done :)
[09:54:24] <slacked> yeh
[09:54:27] <slacked> I do that too
[09:54:32] <slacked> :/
[09:54:35] <Servus> :)
[09:54:49] * slacked remembers all those failed attempts at making duke3d levels and halfllife levels
[09:54:58] <Servus> yes! yes!
[09:55:00] <slacked> I just wanted to make the room look good!
[09:55:02] <slacked> dammit
[09:55:08] <slacked> I'd spend all day on it
[09:55:09] <Servus> ive gotta make this FIREPLACE look FANTASTIC
[09:55:13] <slacked> yes!
[09:59:14] <Servus> i started in doom and wolfenstein 3d :)
[09:59:44] <slacked> yeh
[09:59:53] <slacked> I made wolfenstein levels once
[10:00:06] <slacked> when i got the spear of destiny, i started becoming interested
[10:02:07] <Servus> ja, those were the days... i remember early '92, my big brother had walked in a blizzard 15 miles to radioshack and 15 miles back, just for a shareware disk of Wolfenstein 3d, and when we loaded it up, it was with baited breath, and we all started whooping and hollering quite a bit "whoaaaaaa!"
[10:02:18] <slacked> never made them for doom, it looked too complex at the time
[10:02:28] <slacked> lol
[10:02:37] <slacked> hehe
[10:02:44] <slacked> those are the days...
[10:02:53] <slacked> when games made you really feel excited
[10:03:39] <slacked> when i started making duke3d maps I was so clueless
[10:04:00] <slacked> took me ages to understand what effects do
[10:04:21] <Servus> heh
[10:04:29] <Servus> yea but my biggest problem is always that attention to detail
[10:04:34] <slacked> it was about 1 and a half years of making maps that failed to get finished, and I finally produced my first map
[10:04:49] <slacked> it was a deathmatch map, and it was pretty good
[10:05:02] <Servus> i finished some maps:)
[10:05:08] <slacked> I payed lots of attention to detail
[10:05:15] <slacked> creating shadows
[10:05:16] <slacked> ...
[10:05:32] <slacked> then in half-life I didn't have that pleasure of creating shadows
[10:05:45] <slacked> I even attempted to make someones house once
[10:05:53] <slacked> i got stuck in one room
[10:06:00] <slacked> wouldn't stop adding stuff to it :P
[10:06:08] <Servus> hehehe yea it took me so long to learn how they did it
[10:06:26] <Servus> heres a tip though : get 1,000 sheets of REALLY REALLY big paper, and get a small pencil, and draw:)
[10:06:39] <slacked> now days, there are too many fps's to really bother I reckon
[10:07:09] <Servus> creating shadows = billboard a sprite, lay it flate, and colour it black
[10:07:15] <slacked> they should ban half-life all togethor and port all the descent mods to the Q3 engine, it's much more supiror
[10:07:24] <slacked> hehe
[10:07:39] <slacked> in duke3d
[10:07:44] <slacked> I just split the ground up
[10:07:51] <slacked> and shaded that part of the ground
[10:08:15] <Servus> half-life = counterstrike, and counter-strike on quake3 would suck, just because i dont prefer to play quake3 :)
[10:08:48] <slacked> yeh either do i
[10:08:59] <slacked> but the engine is like %100 better for fps
[10:09:34] <Servus> yeah... but it just doesnt have that je ne'sai quo (major SP) that half-life has and that keeps half-life intersting even today
[10:10:15] <Servus> "je ne sais pas ce qui"
[10:10:43] <slacked> yeh
[10:10:49] <slacked> half-life is good for single player
[10:11:19] <slacked> but to butcher it with thousands of mods when quake3 is better (netcode-wise) for mulitplayer games, it's just silly
[10:11:22] <Servus> counter-strike is still the best online shooter ive played, even though nowadays it gets worse with each patch
[10:11:34] <slacked> yeh it does
[10:11:39] <Servus> actually in my personal experience, quake3 sucks on the net and it has no single player :(
[10:11:47] <slacked> like how they screwed jumping
[10:11:55] <slacked> but CS is lame now
[10:12:00] <Servus> it took me FOREVER to get on a SINGLE quake3 game, and it wasnt even fun :|
[10:12:01] <slacked> so it doesn't really bother me
[10:13:17] <Servus> well it bothers me when i cant even start a game:)
[10:13:44] <slacked> best online fps ive played is operation flashpoint despite how they release 1 patch every year that introduces new bugs into the game
[10:14:57] <Servus> never played it
[10:15:06] <slacked> its really good on multiplayer
[10:15:07] <Servus> medal of honour allied assault is alright
[10:15:11] <slacked> lots of places to explore
[10:15:32] <slacked> hrrm
[10:15:39] <slacked> there really are too many fps games
[10:15:52] <slacked> they are have pretty good graphics too
[10:16:00] <slacked> but i just dont have time to play them all
[10:16:16] <Servus> because theyre easy to makew
[10:16:42] <slacked> well when they recycle the same engine over and over and over, its easy to so why
[10:16:42] <Servus> the Suits upstairs say "Adventure games take 5 times as much time and budget to make as quake-clones, so let's make quake-clones and shovel them out the door"
[10:16:54] <Servus> yea
[10:16:59] <Servus> quake3 engine is $250,000 right now :O
[10:17:08] <slacked> really?
[10:17:32] <Servus> www.idsoftware.com yes, quake2 is free though, and once doom3 comes out, quake3 will probably be free
[10:17:41] <slacked> hrrm
[10:17:50] <Servus> you can download FULL quake2 source...
[10:17:58] <slacked> yeh i know
[10:18:25] <slacked> brb
[10:18:44] <Servus> ok
[10:38:24] <slacked> back
[10:39:25] <Servus> wb
[10:39:43] <Servus> did you see my brain picture? do you think it looks like a huge flying fluffy herbivorous gerbil?
[10:47:07] <Servus> ?
[10:50:08] <Darke> Yes!
[10:51:20] <slacked> umm
[10:51:24] <slacked> nah it looked like a brain
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[12:51:37] <Colourless> hi
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[13:36:28] * jerbear yawns
[13:37:35] <Colourless> shh! quiet!
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[14:07:34] * Darke waves.
[14:07:43] <Colourless> wwb
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[15:21:11] <Colourless> mmx is kind of neat. rewrote some image dumping (from a hardware framebuffer) and combining functions using mmx and the speed up was pretty impressive
[15:23:07] <Colourless> mmx functions are about 3x faster than the c versions
[15:23:24] <Colourless> if not more
[15:37:02] <jerbear> speed is good.
[15:46:51] * timofonic hates x86 technology
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[16:37:37] <wjp> hi
[16:38:28] <Colourless> hi
[16:39:03] <jerbear> hi
[16:41:13] <timofonic> Colourless: ...
[16:41:19] <timofonic> Colourless: x86 ? bad thing
[16:41:46] <Colourless> it's not too bad
[16:41:50] <timofonic> no
[16:41:56] <timofonic> is TOTALLY BAD
[16:41:58] <timofonic> x86 sux
[16:42:16] <timofonic> x86 is a shit
[16:42:39] <jerbear> timofonic: ...in comparison to what?
[16:42:49] <timofonic> PPC is better
[16:43:09] <timofonic> i prefer 68k than x86
[17:14:09] <jerbear> there is an exult mailing list, no?
[17:19:37] <wjp> yes
[17:20:02] <wjp> address is at the bottom of our homepage
[17:22:55] <jerbear> aye
[17:22:56] <jerbear> danke
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[17:46:42] <pyomy> is the cvs at sourceforge working right now?
[17:47:25] * wjp checks
[17:48:14] <wjp> seems to work
[17:49:03] <pyomy> my cvs client just hangs after the password, and the web based viewer doesn't work at all
[17:49:39] <wjp> it did wait 10-20 seconds after logging in here, but it worked after that
[17:49:44] <wjp> but SF has been a bit flaky the last week
[17:50:08] <pyomy> i've been waiting several minutes
[17:50:36] <wjp> that's too long, yes
[17:51:53] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[18:13:24] <wjp> b
[18:14:20] <Colourless> wb
[18:18:24] <wjp> hm, I get a connection refused for anonymous CVS
[18:18:56] <Colourless> cvs doesn't seem to be working here
[18:19:10] <Colourless> can't use the web interface
[18:24:48] <wjp> any idea if template<class T> class X { ~X<T>(); } is valid syntax for a destructor? (i.e., the <T> part)
[18:24:56] <wjp> scummvm seems to use it in some classes
[18:25:17] <Colourless> exactly like that... not sure
[18:25:26] <Colourless> i wouldn't normally think so
[18:25:45] <wjp> I always just say '~X()'
[18:25:59] <Colourless> yeah so do i
[18:26:09] <matto|wookin> good evening guys
[18:26:18] <wjp> hi matto
[18:26:37] <matto|wookin> wjp : what linux flavor are you running these days? more specifically, have you tried GNOME 2?
[18:26:49] <wjp> gentoo, and yes
[18:26:57] <Colourless> i actually think that is totally wrong, but hey, i could be mistaken
[18:27:13] <matto|wookin> I finally got it working yesterday and I am really impressed by how nice the anti-aliased fonts look
[18:27:26] <matto|wookin> previous attempts have yielded rather 'blah' looking anti aliased fonts
[18:27:29] <wjp> Colourless: yeah, that was my first thought too. gcc3 seems to accept it, though
[18:27:43] <wjp> AA fonts are looking so-so here
[18:28:28] <matto|wookin> I suspect it will get better
[18:29:03] <Colourless> the only time you need to include the <T> is if you are calling another function, or you are doing this
[18:29:04] <Colourless> template<class T> X<T>::~X()
[18:30:23] * wjp nods
[18:30:55] <Colourless> i'm sure there are other obscure cases that i'm forgetting :-)
[18:31:23] <wjp> we are talking about C++, yes :-)
[18:31:44] <wjp> read the story about 'D' on /. a while back, btw?
[18:31:53] * matto|wookin raises hand
[18:31:54] <matto|wookin> I did!
[18:32:07] <matto|wookin> it seemed to be started on windows, whichi seemed unsual
[18:32:16] <Colourless> D?
[18:32:45] <wjp> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/
[18:34:21] <pyomy> what is exult_flx.h?
[18:34:40] <Colourless> it's a auto generated header
[18:34:55] <wjp> corresponding with exult.flx
[18:35:09] <Colourless> made by expack
[18:35:16] <wjp> and generated when you create exult.flx
[18:35:18] <wjp> :-)
[18:35:30] <pyomy> when i do what? is this in the docs?
[18:35:46] <Colourless> well, no, it's part of the build system
[18:35:57] <pyomy> ok
[18:36:06] <wjp> it should 'Just Work(tm)'
[18:36:29] <pyomy> it isn't for some reason
[18:36:56] <wjp> how are you trying to build exult?
[18:37:45] <pyomy> with the latest snapshot from the download page
[18:37:50] <pyomy> make install
[18:37:57] <pyomy> using mingw
[18:38:19] <wjp> did you do a 'make' first?
[18:38:28] <pyomy> no
[18:39:20] <wjp> technically it should work without it, but you could try it
[18:39:46] <pyomy> ok, it seems to be happier now
[18:40:52] <wjp> strange
[18:41:46] <wjp> install depends on $EXEC
[18:42:12] <wjp> and $EXEC depends on exult_flx.h
[18:42:45] <pyomy> i think i did 'make exult' first, would that matter?
[18:43:07] <wjp> hm, did that do anything?
[18:43:20] <Colourless> were you just getting some warnings? or actual errors?
[18:43:45] <pyomy> file not found errors on exult_flx.h etc
[18:44:12] <jerbear> i've got a question for you guys -- do you normally mix your wave output and your 'midi' synth at the same level on your systems?
[18:44:32] <wjp> 'make exult' shouldn't do anything, looking at Makefile.mingw, Makefile.common
[18:44:46] <jerbear> ...or at least for exult
[18:45:12] <wjp> jerbear: depends on what midi driver exult is using, I think, but I'm not sure :-)
[18:45:29] <Colourless> jerbear: yeah i do. full max
[18:45:33] <pyomy> someone here suggested i do 'make exult' yesterday, when i was having problems
[18:46:09] <wjp> that would work in linux, but it wouldn't do much in windows, AFAICT
[18:46:27] <jerbear> i know on windows i've been playing / testing with both wav and midi at the exact same level
[18:46:38] <jerbear> im trying to get a bearing on volume levels for .wav sound effects :P
[18:46:46] <matto|wookin> I like the 'dead bodies' midi song :)
[18:47:27] <jerbear> oh... and ive got a great body 'hit' sound... nice and mushy when you're in battle
[18:47:38] <matto|wookin> hehe...
[18:47:40] <matto|wookin> sick
[18:47:49] <jerbear> it works pretty darn well...
[18:47:58] <Colourless> wjp: D would remove the preprocessor. Heresy I say! It would make it near impossible to do something like this
[18:47:58] <Colourless> #define PT_FUNC_EX(name,ret,args,argb) \
[18:47:58] <Colourless> typedef ret (APIENTRY * PFN##name) args; \
[18:47:58] <Colourless> extern PFN##name imp_##name; \
[18:47:58] <Colourless> extern "C" ret APIENTRY _##name args;
[18:48:12] <Colourless> :-)
[18:48:28] <jerbear> oh, and i notice that there is always a delay in triggering the sound effects -- i cant remember if it was that way with the original u7 or not...
[18:48:28] * wjp re-reads that
[18:48:34] <wjp> twice
[18:48:39] <jerbear> like a door opening sound triggers like .5 to 1.0 second later.
[18:49:00] <jerbear> activating it opens it immediately though -- there is no delay in the animation.
[18:49:09] <wjp> we have that much latency?
[18:49:13] <jerbear> anyone else notice that?
[18:49:35] <jerbear> 1.0 on windowsxp here... i think i tried to compensate with silence at the beginning of the wav and it just made the delay longer
[18:49:38] <Colourless> we probably have more latency with SDL mixer than i would like
[18:49:43] <jerbear> aye
[18:50:01] <jerbear> the realistic sounds ive got so far add real depth to the game i think
[18:50:21] <jerbear> if you can add any more depth to a game like the black gate :)
[18:50:25] <jerbear> jej
[18:53:01] <Colourless> the latency was playing havok with the FM Synth. I had to re-think how to implement things to get around it. The result is pretty good IMO. I can't remember exactly how many samples that SDL mixer wanted at a time, but it was 'lots'
[18:53:31] <wjp> wasn't the buffer size a parameter to some function?
[18:53:52] <Colourless> yeah it is
[18:54:32] * wjp looks through his SDL mailbox... there's a _lot_ of messages containing 'latency' in there
[18:54:43] <jerbear> jahah
[18:54:49] <wjp> popular topic, it seems :-)
[18:55:37] <Colourless> Mix_OpenAudio has the arg
[19:10:22] <wjp> does that have much of an effect on the latency?
[19:10:40] <Colourless> my tests suggested not much
[19:15:43] <wjp> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352&group_id=1#cvs
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