#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Jul 2002 (GMT)

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[00:00:05] <sbx> hi Darke
[00:00:15] <sbx> wjp: np
[00:00:45] <sbx> i actually had to change it to fit the automaton body
[00:00:52] <sbx> then i remembered BG doesnt have automotons
[00:00:55] * sbx shrugs.
[00:01:08] <wjp> :-)
[00:01:30] <wjp> ok... that was the MAIN branch, now the devel-1-00 branch
[00:01:35] <sbx> whee
[00:08:01] <sbx> what happens when theres a conflict in merging files from cvs?
[00:08:32] <wjp> the unfortunate soul who was planning to commit something will have to resolve those conflicts :-)
[00:09:06] <wjp> you can't commit a file without having updated it to the most recent version, so any merge conflicts are resolved in your local copy
[00:10:49] <sbx> oh okay
[00:11:12] <sbx> i mean for updating though
[00:11:21] <sbx> if you edit your files
[00:11:25] <sbx> and then do cvs update
[00:11:31] <sbx> it gives me warnings
[00:11:52] <wjp> just edit the file then
[00:12:09] <wjp> it will have marked what your version was, and what the server's copy was
[00:13:31] <sbx> hmm
[00:13:40] <sbx> i have just deleted my own files when it gave a conflict warning
[00:21:58] <sbx> ?
[00:22:05] <sbx> did lilo not already add a server with that quote?
[00:22:27] <wjp> hm?
[00:22:32] <wjp> wallop?
[00:22:37] <sbx> -lilo`/Wallops- "I lift this clavicle to worlds without number, and bring a new light to the Way, guiding this gate that all may prosper, those who guide and are guided, who light the Way and bask in the light so given....Behold, I open a new world."
[00:22:37] <sbx> [19:23:14] -lilo`/Wallops- Please welcome gerrold.openprojects.net, an IPv6-only server in Berlin, Germany!
[00:22:56] <wjp> ipv6 only? cool :-)
[00:23:19] <Darke> Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. *grin*
[00:23:24] <sbx> hmm thats not really related to the quote but ok :-)
[00:23:30] <-- sbx has left IRC ("X-Chat [1.6.4]")
[00:23:34] <wjp> they must be trying to limit bandwidth usage :-)
[00:24:09] * Darke snickers. That's one way of putting it. *grin*
[00:24:10] <wjp> hm, I think I have an IPv6 address here in my uni's range
[00:24:24] <wjp> (tunneled and all that)
[00:24:29] --> sbx has joined #exult
[00:24:31] * sbx can not even resolve the hostname.
[00:24:31] * wjp should try that sometime
[00:24:41] <wjp> yeah, it doesn't resolve for me either
[00:38:15] * sbx laughs at Dominus' Exult forum thread.
[00:39:01] <wjp> hehe :-)
[00:39:39] * Darke snickers.
[00:39:52] --- wjp gives channel operator status to Darke
[00:39:53] --- wjp gives channel operator status to sbx
[00:39:57] <wjp> time for me to go
[00:40:00] <wjp> g'night
[00:40:10] * Darke wonders if we should 'upgrade' out forum and have a section just for that. *grin*
[00:40:11] <Darke> Night!
[00:40:17] <wjp> lol
[00:40:23] <sbx> nite
[00:40:26] <sbx> why am i op?
[00:40:30] <Darke> "Random jokes".
[00:40:34] <wjp> what was the suggestion again? "Ignitus' and Snowy's playground"? :-)
[00:40:38] <Darke> wjp was feeling kind. *grin*
[00:40:41] <Darke> Yep. *grin*
[00:40:54] * sbx feels wjp's kindness.
[00:41:09] <wjp> sbx: enjoy your new power ;-)
[00:41:11] <wjp> bye
[00:41:14] <Darke> Bye!
[00:41:15] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[00:41:17] * sbx kicks wjp.
[00:41:17] <sbx> jk
[00:41:27] <sbx> wow
[00:41:30] <sbx> i feel the power!
[00:41:37] * sbx throws lightning bolts in random directions.
[00:41:44] --> wjp has joined #exult
[00:41:44] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[00:41:48] <wjp> * sbx kicks wjp. ?!
[00:41:48] * sbx stops.
[00:41:49] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[00:41:50] --- wjp takes channel operator status from sbx
[00:41:53] <wjp> there :-)
[00:41:54] <sbx> hehe
[00:41:59] <wjp> hi Dominus
[00:42:03] * sbx feels wjp's vengeance.
[00:42:07] <sbx> hi Dominus
[00:42:08] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[00:42:10] * Darke giggles. ReHi wjp. Hi Dominus.
[00:42:14] <Dominus> hi
[00:42:44] <Dominus> we can't have that
[00:42:56] --- Dominus gives channel operator status to sbx
[00:43:01] <wjp> uh oh
[00:43:01] * wjp runs
[00:43:03] <wjp> night
[00:43:07] <-- wjp has left IRC (Client Quit)
[00:43:09] <sbx> whee
[00:43:13] * sbx kicks w... nm
[00:43:14] --- Dominus takes channel operator status from sbx
[00:43:23] <Dominus> he he
[00:43:50] <Dominus> sorry for the forum post but these guys really are getting annoying
[00:44:02] <sbx> i like it
[00:44:03] <sbx> the forum post
[00:44:33] <sbx> 'Why not just rename the forums to Ignitus and Snowy's playground? "We turn every thread into the Sparks Ass Thread :D"'
[00:44:43] <Dominus> :-)
[00:45:10] * sbx waits for reply.
[00:45:19] * Dominus too
[00:48:32] <sbx> Dominus: aren't you here at an odd hour?
[00:48:56] <Dominus> welll
[00:49:12] <Dominus> kind of :-)
[01:15:21] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
[01:17:22] <sbx> :-(
[01:20:52] * sbx notices how empty the channel looks now that Dominus and wjp left.
[02:03:07] <-- sbx has left IRC ("X-Chat [1.6.4]")
[10:25:13] --> wjp has joined #exult
[10:25:13] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[10:25:15] <wjp> hi
[10:25:22] <Darke> Hi.
[10:38:59] * Darke bows and hops off to sleep. Night!
[10:39:01] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[10:39:04] <wjp> night
[11:42:09] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[11:42:38] <Fingolfin> yo
[11:42:40] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[11:43:28] <wjp> hi
[13:39:45] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[13:39:45] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[13:39:50] <wjp> hi
[13:39:55] <Colourless> hi
[14:13:20] <wjp> time to collect the waters of chaos...
[14:13:28] <wjp> *sigh* :-)
[14:13:57] <Colourless> :-)
[14:15:49] <wjp> really silly... Mortegro trapped by a barrier of water two steps wide :-)
[14:19:32] <wjp> there sure is a lot of gold in that temple... pity it has no use whatsoever anymore :-)
[14:26:22] <Colourless> ah, but can't you still use it in the silver seed?
[14:26:29] <wjp> hm, true
[14:26:52] <wjp> I wonder if the mage there has the two spells I still miss
[14:31:08] <wjp> haha, I'm beating Batlin in the Test of Ethicality
[14:31:29] <wjp> of course, he's protected by tournament mode and all that, but still :-)
[14:33:10] <wjp> oh bah... Temple of Logic
[14:33:12] <wjp> I hate mazes
[14:33:24] <Colourless> it's not 'that' hard :-)
[14:33:37] <wjp> sure, but it's hardly fun :-)
[14:33:45] <Colourless> true
[14:34:23] <wjp> it doesn't really help that my party keeps saying "Where are we?" "We are lost, Avatar" :-)
[14:34:46] <Colourless> heh, especially since you are most likely not lost
[14:35:03] <wjp> yeah, they always say that when you're close to the first puzzle :-)
[14:35:53] <wjp> strange... while sorting this mess of bodies/stuff some of them disappeared when I dropped them
[14:36:03] <wjp> including the book I was looking for for the clues
[14:37:54] <Colourless> odd
[14:43:59] <wjp> ok... let's see... I have the 3 soul prisms, the waters of order, and the repaired black sword
[14:44:14] <wjp> and I looked through the Web of Fate
[14:44:24] <wjp> so that should be enough to go recapture those banes
[14:44:49] <Colourless> you've got to use the black sword on them
[14:45:01] <wjp> I know :-)
[14:45:01] <Colourless> (attack with)
[14:49:02] <wjp> wow, 182 savegames already
[14:50:02] <Colourless> 182 files, or is that your save count?
[14:50:07] <wjp> 182 files
[14:50:17] <wjp> save count is 280
[14:50:34] <Colourless> good thing our savegames are small
[14:50:51] <wjp> hmm... what was supposed to happen in the mirror room?
[14:50:56] <wjp> (castle of the White Dragon)
[14:51:36] <Colourless> one of the banes appeasr, mirrors smash, avatar clones are created, turn into chaosmen
[14:51:59] <wjp> Iolo appears, mirrors smash, mirrors disappear
[14:51:59] <Colourless> the chaosmen part may not occur. i can't remember... been too long
[15:15:12] <wjp> ...isle of the dead...
[15:15:46] <Colourless> you started playing last weekend right?
[15:16:18] <wjp> about a week ago, yes
[15:31:05] <wjp> hm, where exactly was I supposed to cast summon shade?
[15:31:46] <Colourless> just outside the building
[15:32:11] <Colourless> of course i can't remember which temple it was
[15:32:18] <wjp> no, the other one
[15:32:20] <wjp> I thikn
[15:32:27] <wjp> s/kn/nk
[15:32:37] <wjp> hmm... maybe I have the order of some things messed up
[15:32:45] <wjp> I'm at the isle of crypts right now
[15:32:53] <wjp> got the chaos serpent eye
[15:33:02] <wjp> but wasn't I supposed to talk to the last great hierophant here?
[15:33:03] <Colourless> ah, it's a secret chamber 'somewhere'
[15:34:10] <wjp> yes :-)
[15:40:17] <wjp> ah, there it is
[15:53:34] <wjp> wow, this is actually the first time I properly summoned the Chaos Hierophant
[16:13:44] <wjp> next maze... the Shrine of Chaos
[16:20:19] <Colourless> i always remember the room of infinite magic goblins :-)
[16:21:18] <wjp> yeah, me too :-)
[16:21:28] <wjp> at the wall of lights now, btw
[16:22:10] <wjp> hm, flames on the altars aren't working
[16:23:48] <wjp> oh, wait
[16:24:02] <wjp> I _first_ need to open the wall of lights :-)
[16:29:50] <wjp> ok.. Sunrise Isle
[16:29:54] <wjp> almost there :-)
[16:41:07] <wjp> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[16:41:13] <wjp> I left the blackrock serpent in the shrine of chaos
[16:41:23] * wjp flings some random curses at himself
[16:42:08] <Colourless> :-)
[16:42:23] <Colourless> well, with the jawbone it's not exactly difficult to get back
[16:42:34] <wjp> walking all the way through the shrine of chaos again?
[16:42:37] <wjp> no thanks :-)
[16:42:58] <wjp> ok, got it back
[16:56:19] <-- wjp has left IRC (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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[16:56:19] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[16:56:19] <-- Darke|afk has left IRC (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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[17:18:52] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[17:19:12] <Colourless> k
[17:38:04] <wjp> back, and confused
[17:38:40] <wjp> I'm doing that puzzle where you have to press tons of buttons to open tons of gates
[17:38:46] <wjp> with the two separate 'building's
[17:39:44] <Colourless> wb
[17:39:56] <wjp> the gates don't always seem to open properly
[17:39:56] <Colourless> where?
[17:40:00] <wjp> near the end
[17:40:20] <Colourless> bah, i always just used telekinesis on that puzzle
[17:41:14] <wjp> :-)
[17:46:58] <wjp> "Slay Me! Slay me with the serpent sword and send my soul back into the Void!"
[17:47:03] <wjp> a.k.a, The End(tm)
[17:49:07] <wjp> "Or perhaps you would join me in a different world altogether? We do have a score to settle!"
[17:49:10] <wjp> whee, all done :-)
[17:49:35] <wjp> so, who's going to volunteer to play through The Black Gate before 1.0? :-)
[17:50:05] <Colourless> you got pretty far today
[17:50:17] * wjp nods
[17:50:39] <wjp> from passing Gorlab to the end in 5-6 hours
[17:51:19] <Colourless> do the save games record how much real time has been spent playing, or just the game time?
[17:51:33] <wjp> only game time
[17:51:40] <wjp> I think
[17:51:59] <Colourless> i'm pretty sure it's only game time as well
[17:52:01] <wjp> 16 days of game time
[17:52:10] <Colourless> game time includes sleeping thouhg
[17:52:25] <wjp> yeah
[17:52:27] <wjp> lots of sleeping :-)
[17:52:32] <Colourless> so you can't work out how much real time has been spent playing
[17:52:40] <wjp> "meet me in my room at midnight"
[17:52:43] <wjp> *looks at time*
[17:52:45] <wjp> grr... 9am
[17:52:49] <Colourless> hehe
[17:53:13] <wjp> first save: 7-7, 17:00
[17:53:37] <Colourless> 9 days
[17:53:47] <wjp> last save that day: 1:30am
[17:53:56] <wjp> first save next day: 17:00
[17:54:25] <wjp> last save that day: midnight
[17:54:47] <wjp> then a gap of three days
[17:54:55] <wjp> first save 12-7: 22:00
[17:54:56] * Colourless wonders if he should add a time played option to the save games
[17:55:11] <wjp> it won't count reloading when things go wrong, though
[17:55:29] <wjp> last save that day: 23:15
[17:55:31] <Colourless> well, no, it's not exactly possible to add that
[17:55:40] <wjp> first save 13-7: 20:00
[17:56:19] <wjp> last save that day: 3:15am
[17:56:28] <wjp> first save today: 13:45
[17:56:40] <wjp> last save today: 19:45
[17:57:35] <wjp> that's 39 hours
[17:57:44] <wjp> but I didn't exactly play full time these periods :-)
[17:57:54] <wjp> I guess it would be about 30
[17:58:21] <wjp> ack, that's more time than I spend on an average exam :-)
[17:58:31] <Colourless> :-)
[17:58:36] <Colourless> odd that
[18:32:27] --> sbx has joined #exult
[18:32:31] <sbx> hi
[18:32:47] <wjp> hi
[18:33:32] <Colourless> hi
[18:34:06] <sbx> devel1.00 is the stable one right?
[18:34:15] <wjp> yeah
[18:34:48] <sbx> drat
[18:34:55] <sbx> ill just get it then
[18:35:49] <sbx> what should i call the directory?
[18:35:59] <wjp> what directory?
[18:36:03] <sbx> i have ~/build/exult/exult-dev already
[18:36:09] <sbx> for the stable branch
[18:36:18] <sbx> the one i have is the head branch
[18:36:48] <wjp> I named the directory 'devel-1-00'
[18:36:55] <sbx> hmm
[18:37:01] <sbx> i know what to call it!
[18:37:04] <sbx> ~/build/exult/dev-exult
[18:37:05] <sbx> :-)
[18:37:24] <wjp> lol
[18:37:28] <wjp> nice and confusing :-)
[18:38:30] <Colourless> i have "exult" and "exult-devel-1-00" :-)
[18:38:54] <wjp> 'exult', 'clean', and 'devel-1-00' here
[18:39:08] <sbx> is pentagram dead?
[18:39:08] <wjp> (exult = messy local copy of HEAD, clean = HEAD, devel-1-00 is, well, guess :-) )
[18:39:15] <wjp> no, not at all
[18:39:21] <wjp> we had one whole email to the ML last week :-)
[18:39:30] <Colourless> pentagram is forever in the planning stage
[18:39:33] <wjp> which is infinitely more than the week before :-)
[18:40:18] <sbx> is the pentagram module of exult dead?
[18:40:23] <Colourless> it's going to be looked at in years to come as the ideal way to program a game engine. People will learn about it in universities and study just how perfect it is :-)
[18:40:40] <wjp> and all that without a single line of code :-)
[18:40:42] <Colourless> yes the pentagram module in exult is dead
[18:40:59] <Colourless> wjp: no code = no bugs ;-)
[18:41:17] <Colourless> no bug = perfect
[18:41:41] <wjp> maybe we should start some code or something
[18:41:55] <wjp> some utility classes would be nice
[18:42:05] <wjp> I'd probably start with the filesystem
[18:42:07] <Colourless> yes.
[18:42:22] * Colourless thinks the PentagramFileSystem class should come first
[18:42:23] <wjp> then the display classes
[18:42:40] <wjp> (or more generally I/O classes?)
[18:42:46] <sbx> what about Kernel?
[18:43:08] <wjp> that can wait a while... needs more planning :-)
[18:43:14] <Colourless> the Kernel design hasn't really be greatly thought about
[18:43:43] <sbx> I don't even know what that is, I just remembered you talking about it
[18:44:16] <wjp> it's the thing that handles all the multithreading and stuff
[18:44:33] <sbx> yeah
[18:44:37] <sbx> will you have kernel modules? :)
[18:44:51] * sbx extends Pentagram with his U9 driver.
[18:45:00] <wjp> hehe :-)
[18:45:18] <Colourless> do no mention such things to darke... such things could happen :-)
[18:45:51] <wjp> lol
[18:46:23] * sbx pokes Darke|afk.
[19:00:28] <sbx> Warning: Supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /home/groups/e/ex/exult/htdocs/forum/db/ mysql.php on line 159
[19:01:03] <wjp> just a glitch probably
[19:01:10] <sbx> it was at the top of the search results page in the Exult forum
[19:14:34] * Fingolfin recently implemented a new GUI system for ScummVM from scratch, and learned some nice things from it, whihc might (or might not) be helpful for pentagram one day
[19:33:28] <sbx> :-)
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[20:03:00] <sbx> Making all in data
[20:03:00] <sbx> make[4]: Entering directory `/home/sbx/build/exult/dev-exult/usecode/ucxt/data'
[20:03:00] <sbx> make[4]: *** No rule to make target `u7bgintrinsics.data', needed by `all-am'. Stop.
[20:03:40] <sbx> i guess head2data needs to run
[20:03:45] <sbx> but it didnt build that
[20:04:05] <wjp> hmm.. maybe build order is wrong again
[20:04:17] * wjp throws some curses at automake
[20:04:31] <sbx> in /home/sbx/build/exult/dev-exult/usecode/ucxt...
[20:04:38] <sbx> it says Nothing to be done for `all-am'
[20:05:02] <wjp> is head2data built?
[20:05:15] <sbx> no
[20:05:20] <sbx> there is head2data.cc
[20:05:43] <wjp> hm, how did you call configure exactly?
[20:05:55] <sbx> ./configure --prefix=/home/sbx/ultima7/exult-stable --disable-compiler --disable-tools --disable-gimp-plugin --disable-exult-studio --enable-debug --disable-sdl-parachute --disable-kmid --disable-timidity --disable-exult-studio-support
[20:06:15] <sbx> i wondered if there was a disable-ucxt but didnt see it
[20:06:30] <wjp> ah... disable-tools
[20:06:45] <wjp> head2data only builds if tools are enabled
[20:06:47] * wjp wonders why
[20:06:58] * sbx thinks ucxt should not try to be built then
[20:07:44] <sbx> i already have built ucxt in the head branch so i dont need another one
[20:08:16] <wjp> well, ucxt won't be built
[20:08:22] <wjp> it's the data files that are the problem
[20:09:41] * sbx copies his other head2data into the directory.
[20:11:31] <sbx> i dont think it even tried to run head2data, so i had to do it manually
[20:12:05] * wjp browses some more makefile.am's
[20:12:14] <wjp> ah.. the data files are also only built when tools are enabled
[20:12:30] <wjp> but they're always in ucxt_DATA
[20:12:35] <wjp> and in EXTRA_DIST
[20:13:26] <sbx> so you remove them and it is fixed?
[20:14:14] <sbx> i mean, it just shouldn't try to do anything in that directory then
[20:14:20] <wjp> maybe I should just put a conditional in the main dir
[20:15:45] <sbx> why is automake used here? just for libs and install?
[20:17:14] <sbx> i used automake in a couple of projects so i could get multiple source directories compiled easily, but then i decided to just make my own makefile.ins using the ones already there as a base :)
[20:17:33] <wjp> automake really doesn't handle directories properly
[20:18:34] <sbx> i don't know much about it
[20:45:35] <sbx> Oooh it's linking
[20:46:01] * sbx cheers.
[20:50:48] <sbx> wjp: did you have a fix for the problem with installing exult studio data files?
[20:51:00] <wjp> no
[20:51:06] <wjp> it just won't work with automake 1.4
[20:51:32] <sbx> ok
[20:52:04] <wjp> I do have a fix for the ucxt-without-tools problem
[20:52:12] <wjp> or at least, I think I do
[20:52:20] <wjp> I'm just rebuilding it from scratch to see if it works
[20:52:37] <sbx> i thought you just took the files out of EXTRA_DIST
[20:53:27] <wjp> no, I put the 'SUBDIRS = blah blah' command in the main ucxt mainfile in a conditional
[20:54:46] <sbx> oh
[20:55:17] <sbx> is the automake thing is documented? what version should i get
[20:55:58] <wjp> getting it to work in 1.4 is easy, btw
[20:56:20] <sbx> that is a fix isn't it?
[20:56:26] <wjp> IIRC, just remove the "/estudio/new" part from the 'estudionewdir =' line in data/Makefile.am
[20:56:32] <wjp> no, it breaks 1.5+
[20:56:35] <sbx> hehe
[20:57:02] <wjp> <sarcasm>don't you just love automake?</sarcasm>
[20:58:27] <sbx> do you know of a way to get the automake version?
[20:58:34] <sbx> then you can make a conditional
[20:58:59] <wjp> well, I think there is a way to get it to work in both
[20:58:59] <sbx> hmm, you can get it from configure
[20:59:03] <sbx> ok
[20:59:14] <wjp> but when I tried it it didn't work
[20:59:25] <wjp> but that may have been a glitch in the version I had
[20:59:40] <wjp> since it was the first one that attempted to support files in subdirs
[21:00:04] <wjp> sbx: yes, getting it from configure would work
[21:00:32] <sbx> what version did you use?
[21:00:39] <wjp> not sure
[21:00:47] <wjp> I upgraded to RH7.3 since then, and that comes with 1.4 again
[21:01:06] <wjp> I think 1.5
[21:05:16] <wjp> hm, it should be possible to have both automake 1.4 and 1.6.x installed
[21:05:19] <wjp> (at least Darke has that)
[21:05:52] * wjp should look into that
[21:05:52] <sbx> Darke uses Gentoo
[21:05:57] <sbx> he is superior
[21:07:07] <wjp> yeah, I know :-)
[21:07:08] <wjp> hey... I have automake 1.4 and 1.5 installed too
[21:07:13] <wjp> cool, so RH supports that 'out of the box' too
[21:07:28] <wjp> now I just need to figure out how to switch between the two :-)
[21:08:12] <sbx> you just installed them in different locations?
[21:08:14] <sbx> i can do that
[21:08:22] <sbx> i think
[21:08:49] <wjp> hm, the binary is 'automake-1.5'
[21:09:26] <wjp> the 1.4 binary is 'automake-1.4'
[21:09:34] <wjp> with 'automake' symlinked to the 1.4
[21:09:39] <sbx> heh heh
[21:10:22] <wjp> the problem is that you can't just change that symlink, since the symlinks for aclocal, autoconf, autoheader, etc... also have to be changed
[21:10:52] <sbx> hey automake is a perl script i didnt know that
[21:11:13] <wjp> yeah
[21:12:31] <sbx> anyway... if you get it's version in a test from configure, you can use AM_CONDITIONAL() to set an automake version variable, and then in automake use an if/else to change the SUBDIRS depending on what that variable says
[21:12:42] <wjp> yeah, I know
[21:12:53] * sbx just found out
[21:12:57] <wjp> (btw, SUBDIRS wasn't the problem with the estudio data files)
[21:13:31] <sbx> hmm :)
[21:13:47] <sbx> i meant estudionewdir
[21:14:27] <sbx> but here is a thought
[21:14:37] <sbx> why does it need to install estudio files if I disabled that? :-)
[21:15:16] <wjp> umm.. well... uhh...
[21:15:43] <wjp> because our current build system is a big mess?
[21:17:21] * sbx shrugs. "If you say so ^.^"
[21:17:42] <wjp> we should probably take a good look at it before releasing 1.0
[21:17:43] <sbx> i just remember that making those directories myself lets it get past that part of install
[21:18:35] <sbx> now it stops when it tries to install the gnome stuff because im not root
[21:18:42] <wjp> it's _so_ annoying not being able to just run 'make' in data/ because it doesn't "know" how to build expack from there
[21:18:57] <wjp> ok, that's bad too
[21:20:01] <sbx> most of the other apps i have that install gnome items put them in <prefix>/share/gnome
[21:20:25] <wjp> we install into `gnome-config --datadir`
[21:21:43] <sbx> maybe you should just change it if the user specifies a prefix
[21:21:58] <wjp> not sure if you can detect that
[21:22:07] <wjp> (cleanly, that is :-) )
[21:24:28] <sbx> how about a --with-gnome option?
[21:24:40] <sbx> to override the location for those files
[21:24:50] <sbx> --without-gnome(default) == use prefix
[21:24:58] <sbx> or dont install them at all in that case
[21:25:07] <wjp> hm... I think I'll go check how some gnome projects do this
[21:25:38] <wjp> hm, $(datadir)/gnome
[21:25:45] <wjp> and $(datadir)/pixmaps
[21:25:52] <wjp> I guess that's good enough then
[21:26:49] <sbx> ok :)
[21:26:57] <wjp> ok, --disable-exult-studio doesn't install data files anymore now
[21:27:02] <sbx> i would say gnome-config is more for testing where gnome files are when you need to access them to compile?
[21:27:20] <wjp> yeah, I think so
[21:27:42] <sbx> and thats what a --with-gnome option wouldve been for too so you didnt need that :)
[21:27:55] <sbx> i dunno why i mentioned it
[21:28:35] <wjp> yeah, a --with-gnome option might be nice
[21:28:47] <wjp> hmm... why not :-)
[21:29:17] <sbx> :|
[21:29:22] <wjp> I'll make it default to $(datadir), though
[21:29:25] <sbx> heh
[21:29:27] <sbx> no no no
[21:29:28] <sbx> aah
[21:29:37] <sbx> i meant that --with-gnome is not good at all
[21:29:43] <wjp> datadir = prefix/share
[21:29:46] <sbx> it is similiar to gnome-config
[21:30:55] <sbx> so i meant that you didnt need it
[21:31:24] <wjp> don't need it, no; but I wonder if it would be useful to have
[21:32:03] <sbx> i guess if you want to install those files outside your specified 'prefix'
[21:32:11] <sbx> but
[21:32:22] <wjp> if we make it default to $(datadir)/gnome, it will install files to the wrong place if you don't specify a prefix (/usr/local/share/gnome)
[21:33:11] <sbx> well thats the default
[21:33:37] <sbx> but you would do '--prefix=/opt/gnome' or whatever if you wanted it there
[21:34:06] <wjp> exult in /opt/gnome?
[21:34:23] <sbx> ...
[21:34:37] <sbx> ...
[21:34:43] <wjp> gnome in /opt/gnome? :-)
[21:35:40] <sbx> i just checked gaim
[21:35:48] <sbx> and it uses --with-gnome to set want_gnome
[21:36:32] <sbx> and it uses gnome-config if want_gnome is true
[21:38:02] <sbx> but gaim is a gnomeable app that has gnome bits
[21:38:36] <sbx> exult is not
[21:38:45] <sbx> how do other non-gnome apps put stuff in gnomedir?
[21:39:36] <wjp> what might also work is always having it (try to) install things in 'gnome-config --datadir', but not aborting if it fails
[21:40:27] <sbx> yeah
[21:40:40] <sbx> but putting it in my --prefix location would be so nice :)
[21:41:24] <wjp> does gnome read from ~/share/gnome?
[21:42:28] <sbx> i dont have a ~/share/gnome to test
[21:44:02] <wjp> ok... how about just doing this:
[21:44:59] <wjp> a --with-gnome-data=<directory> option, which defaults to $(prefix)/share
[21:45:30] <wjp> that way it would install into /usr/share/gnome properly when packaging, and into ~/share/gnome when installing to your homedir
[21:46:02] <sbx> im not installing in my home dir, im installing in --prefix
[21:46:11] <sbx> hey
[21:46:13] <wjp> that'll work too :-)
[21:46:20] <sbx> what was the original objection to just putting it in --prefix? :)
[21:46:26] <sbx> i mean
[21:46:30] <sbx> $(datadir)/gnome
[21:46:37] <wjp> well, --prefix defaults to /usr/local
[21:46:52] <wjp> so it installs into /usr/local/share/gname by default if you just do "./configure"
[21:47:27] <sbx> how about "--datadir=DIR read-only architecture-independent data [PREFIX/share]"
[21:47:39] <sbx> oh nm
[21:48:39] <sbx> it seems on slackware, all of gnome enabled apps are in /opt/gnome/bin
[21:48:42] <sbx> so i never noticed that problem
[21:49:31] <sbx> hmm xchat isnt in there... ill look at it
[21:50:22] <sbx> are the estudio options going to be removed when 1.00 is released?
[21:50:30] <sbx> or
[21:50:32] <sbx> 1.0.0
[21:51:08] <Colourless> they should probably be removed now in the devel-1-00 branch
[21:51:28] <sbx> yeah
[21:51:33] <sbx> i mean sometime before the release :)
[21:51:55] <Colourless> win32 builds have had the exult studio stuff removed for some time now
[21:52:20] <sbx> from the project files?
[21:52:29] <Colourless> no, the makefile
[21:53:53] <sbx> oh for mingw
[21:54:41] <Colourless> yeah. exult studio never worked with msvc, not that I even tried to get it to work. of course the exult.exe built by msvc can still communicate with exult studio
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[21:56:29] <Colourless> hi Kirben
[21:56:32] <sbx> hi
[21:59:09] <sbx> wjp: truth is most apps with gnome files do put them in the --prefix dir if you have one
[21:59:51] <Kirben> Hi
[21:59:52] <sbx> and packagers copy the files to the appropriate location for their package (maybe using gnome-config in a script)
[22:02:06] <sbx> i was looking at xchat.spec file but i don't understand the format :)
[22:03:26] <wjp> xchat.spec just installs them in the location they were installed by make install
[22:10:07] <sbx> eh
[22:10:18] <sbx> so why not do --prefix=/usr ?
[22:10:30] <wjp> that's what I do in exult.spec :-)
[22:11:14] <sbx> so... there ya go, tell people they have to do that or copy their gnome files by hand (thats what other applications do anyway) :-)
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[22:22:07] <Dominus> hi
[22:22:34] <Colourless> hi
[22:22:36] * Dominus congratulates wjp for completing SI
[22:22:38] <sbx> hi
[22:22:45] <wjp> thx :-)
[22:23:34] <Dominus> Fingolfin: so scummvm has a gui now?
[22:23:49] <Colourless> hey dom, i've release glidexp 1010 now. got a few more fixes over what I gave to you. download it here http://www.users.on.net/triforce/glidexp/
[22:24:03] <Dominus> thx
[22:25:42] <Fingolfin> Dominus: yes and no. there always was the in game save load dialog. the code for that was one horrific mess. We have implemented a new (IMHO rather elegant) GUI system (with alpha blending BTW <g>). We are now working on converting the internal dialogs to all be based on the new GUI
[22:25:46] <Fingolfin> then after that
[22:25:56] <Fingolfin> a "game GUI" is planned, i.e. where you can select the game you want to play etc.
[22:26:20] <Fingolfin> which will be esp. useful for Mac and Win ports, where people are not happy if they have to deal with the command line to play their old games :-)
[22:26:36] <Dominus> yes, count me in those too
[22:26:37] <Dominus> :-)
[22:26:46] <Fingolfin> sure :-)
[22:26:55] <Dominus> but otoh I have only The Dig to play anyway :-)
[22:27:05] <Fingolfin> which is not yet really supported
[22:27:15] <sbx> has someone made an engine for sierra adventure games?
[22:27:19] <Fingolfin> but I can recommend all LucasArts adventures :-)
[22:27:23] <Fingolfin> sbx: yes
[22:27:24] <Dominus> I check on how far it is from time to tim
[22:27:29] <Colourless> there are a few sierra game engines out there
[22:27:42] <sbx> ok
[22:27:43] <Colourless> hell if i can remember their names though
[22:27:43] <Fingolfin> sbx: FreeSCI and Sarien
[22:27:46] * Fingolfin points to http://scummvm.sourceforge.net/links.php
[22:27:47] <sbx> i dont have any lucasarts games :)
[22:27:52] <sbx> thx
[22:28:08] <Fingolfin> Christoph Reichenbach, who once worked on the Exult port to Alpha is actually current project lead of FreeSCI I believe
[22:28:16] <Fingolfin> they used to hang out in #freesci here on OPN
[22:28:21] <Fingolfin> just like we also have #scummvm :-)
[22:28:36] <Colourless> so Fingolfin, do you want to design a Pentagram web site, of course it's not like it needs to be done anytime soon :-)
[22:28:46] <Fingolfin> lol
[22:29:00] <Dominus> I think a nice pentagram site would be nice
[22:29:06] <Fingolfin> gee, dunno, I am not really an artist, more a techincian :-)
[22:29:08] <sbx> :-)
[22:29:10] <Fingolfin> Dominus: you said that nice
[22:29:27] <Dominus> lol
[22:29:35] <Dominus> I just noticed hw nice
[22:29:35] <Colourless> stating the obvious it's called. Something that is nice, is nice :-)
[22:31:26] <sbx> theres a link to Zak256 :: The Zak256 Project here
[22:31:34] <sbx> thats what that guy yesterday was asking for in here
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[22:31:51] <Colourless> how could we forget :-)
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[22:37:20] <wjp> ok... how about I just install stuff in $(datadir)/gnome?
[22:37:44] <sbx> that is my opinion
[22:38:10] <sbx> the pixmap in pixmaps
[22:38:17] * wjp nods
[23:18:32] <Colourless> time for me to go
[23:18:35] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("cya")
[23:18:36] <sbx> cya
[23:24:58] <sbx> any plans to move .exult.cfg to ~/exult?
[23:25:13] <sbx> ~/exult/exult.cfg
[23:25:49] <wjp> yes
[23:26:04] <wjp> they kind of stranded on the current conf/ interface, though
[23:28:10] <Dominus> wel, well, sony's vaio laptops are just a pain (I'm setting one up right now)
[23:29:01] <Dominus> some nice updates for it, along with bios updates - problem is that it comes without floppy by default
[23:29:45] <Dominus> it supports botting from CD but now I have to make a boot-cd on my main pc...
[23:31:12] <sbx> what about your OS boot cd?
[23:31:17] <wjp> aren't most OS install CD bootable?
[23:32:03] <sbx> :-)
[23:32:08] <sbx> wjp: should i play with cheating on or off?
[23:32:12] <sbx> when i go through bg
[23:32:19] <Dominus> problem is that I need to make boot cd with the boot image that sony wants to write to floppy
[23:32:19] <wjp> off, preferably
[23:32:33] <sbx> ok
[23:32:34] <wjp> and you have to submit at least as many bugreports as I did for SI ;-)
[23:32:41] <sbx> :S
[23:32:52] <wjp> hehe :-)
[23:33:05] <sbx> BG could be perfect in every way for all I know
[23:33:14] <Dominus> if you don't submit as many bug reports we make a patch add-on for BG where we blow up a character fashioned after you
[23:33:26] <sbx> no not that!
[23:33:27] <wjp> lol
[23:33:39] * sbx will try
[23:34:06] <Dominus> yoda says: there is no try
[23:35:58] * sbx will do
[23:36:06] <Dominus> better
[23:36:08] <Dominus> :-)
[23:36:31] * sbx submits bug, "There is no Yoda in Trinsic" :P
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[23:49:27] <sbx> exult prints "Data path = /usr/local/share/exult" even if i havnt installed it :-)
[23:51:00] <Dominus> phew, that was heart-stopping, updating the bios, not looking and suddenly it turned off the laptop...
[23:52:20] <Dominus> but it seems to have worked...
[23:52:30] <sbx> yes that would probably give my heart a jolt
[23:53:02] <wjp> yes, data path is compiled into the binary
[23:54:30] <sbx> save games can have punctuation in their names now
[23:54:31] <sbx> joy!
[23:55:54] <wjp> yes, but proper punctuation only works in the HEAD branch
[23:56:18] <sbx> did you add it?
[23:57:04] <wjp> well, I fixed the text input in the main brnach
[23:57:12] <wjp> s/brna/bran/
[23:57:26] <wjp> you could always use punctuation AFAIK, but shift just didn't work
[23:57:38] * sbx thanks wjp.
[23:57:53] <wjp> np :-)
[23:58:14] <wjp> I think I should probably 'backport' it devel-1-00 too
[23:58:21] <wjp> it _is_ kind of a bug, after all
[23:58:31] <wjp> anyway... I should go get some sleep or something
[23:58:34] <sbx> it is
[23:58:36] <sbx> okay
[23:58:42] <wjp> enjoy BG :-)
[23:58:47] <wjp> bye
[23:58:48] <sbx> cya
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