#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Mar 2002 (GMT)

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[08:02:01] <V0|D> hi
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[12:14:30] <Colourless> hi
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[12:25:45] <Colourless> hi
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[12:35:28] <Colourless> hi
[12:40:32] <Fingolfin> yo
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[12:40:49] <Fingolfin> Colourless: an interview, is it? =)
[12:45:50] <Colourless> yeah
[14:02:07] <Colourless> argh, according to exultbot, only 3 words longer than 2 letters have been said all day (except for now of course)
[14:02:25] * Colourless attempt to correct that horrible statistic
[14:03:47] <Colourless> the other words were hi (4x), yo (1x), an (1x), is (1x) and it (1x)
[14:04:20] <Colourless> the 3 'long' words were Colourless, interview and yeah :-)
[14:04:32] * Colourless enjoys screwing with the signal to noise ratio
[14:18:02] <Fingolfin> noise noise noise signal
[14:18:09] <Colourless> indeed
[14:18:13] <Fingolfin> signal signal noise noise signal noise
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[17:49:52] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult v0.98 RC1 Now Available! Download it NOW! http://exult.sf.net
[17:49:52] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Wed Mar 13 20:23:47 2002
[17:50:02] <Colourless> shifts too might be an idea :-)
[17:50:32] * Dominus would like to see Siderweb develop a game using the Exult engine :-)
[17:50:43] <Dominus> ?seen Darke
[17:50:43] <exultbot> darke left IRC around Thu Mar 7 13:54:10 2002 (GMT) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:50:44] <Colourless> the inital problem would be converting usecode16 into usecode32. you couldn't do it with wud and wuc. another tool would need to be used
[17:51:15] <wjp> or add an option to wuc to use the new opcodes?
[17:52:02] <Colourless> wuc itself would easy be able to use the new opcodes.
[17:52:19] <wjp> yeah
[17:52:46] <Colourless> what i meant was you wouldn't be able to disassemble using wud and manually convert the opcodes by just changing the opcodes
[17:53:20] <wjp> ah, no, that wouldn't really work
[17:57:28] <Colourless> since exult's usecode is already mostly 32 bit, only a small amount of work would actually be required to add 32 bit integers to usecode itself. really, the only change would need to be 32bit push opcodes
[17:57:54] * wjp nods
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[18:00:25] <Colourless> a more complete implementation would also include anything that uses Read2
[18:00:25] <wjp> not too many, luckily
[18:00:25] <wjp> well, do we really need 2^32 local vars? :-)
[18:00:35] <Colourless> not at the moment
[18:00:44] <Colourless> and really i doubt ever
[18:00:48] <wjp> would you _ever_ need more than 2^16? :-)
[18:00:55] <Colourless> unless, for example, we wanted to increase the size of the world :-)
[18:01:18] <wjp> that still wouldn't require more locals
[18:01:25] <wjp> more globals maybe, though
[18:01:29] <Colourless> well, no
[18:01:34] <wjp> oh, speaking of which: do we want global data?
[18:01:44] <wjp> (more than just a boolean, I mean)
[18:02:11] <Colourless> well, we already store the bools as 32bit ints afaik
[18:02:25] <Colourless> but, they can only be accessed as being true or false at the moment
[18:03:03] <Colourless> actually they are unsigned chars
[18:04:13] <Colourless> hmm, global data could be added if required
[18:08:39] <wjp> how about putting all new opcodes >= 0x80?
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[18:08:54] <Colourless> yeah, that's a good idea
[18:08:55] * wjp checks which ones we'd need...
[18:09:02] <wjp> JNE, JMP, CMPS
[18:09:26] <wjp> PUSHS
[18:09:45] <Colourless> CALLE
[18:09:47] <wjp> do we want _BIG_ arrays? (more than 64K elements)
[18:09:48] <wjp> if so, ARRC
[18:09:59] <wjp> PUSHI
[18:10:15] <Colourless> 0x46
[18:10:20] <Colourless> it's not named!
[18:10:32] <Colourless> (it's an array opcode)
[18:11:08] <Colourless> CALLI and CALLIS too ????
[18:11:13] <wjp> 0x4C, 0x4D
[18:11:37] <wjp> intrinsic calls? nah, why?
[18:12:27] <Colourless> they read an offset
[18:12:40] <wjp> isn't that really an intrinsic num?
[18:12:42] <Colourless> but those 2 and CALLE probably don't need 32 bit
[18:13:03] <Colourless> yeah it is
[18:13:10] <wjp> of course we could just make everything 32 bit for consistency
[18:13:51] <wjp> LOOP
[18:13:54] <Colourless> yeah, it's not like we are adding a huge amount of extra opcodes
[18:14:39] <wjp> we could add 0x80 to the opcodes for the 32 bit variants? (or just group them logically right behind 0x80)
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[18:16:17] <Colourless> can't really, answer that one. I would imagine that adding 0x80 would seem like a fairly logical thing to do
[18:19:22] <wjp> I'll write up a small email to the ML about this
[18:19:49] <Colourless> yeah
[18:25:28] <wjp> sent.
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[18:25:32] <wjp|dinner> I'll bbl
[18:41:44] <Colourless> looks like we are go for 32 bits :-)
[18:42:23] <Dominus> cool
[18:44:18] <Fingolfin> ok, I am now using SDL CVS, and indeed, what I assumed did happen: now it works. We had some cranky mouse moved event handling code in 1.2.3
[18:44:35] <Fingolfin> so, I guess I'll make a new binary, like 0.98rc1-a or so, for OS X
[18:44:48] <Dominus> I vote for that
[18:45:13] <Colourless> i would guess so
[18:45:17] <Colourless> remove the old one
[18:45:42] <Fingolfin> yup
[18:45:44] <Fingolfin> building it now
[18:45:46] <Colourless> i would also recommend that you don't include the changes that jeff made today
[18:46:14] <Fingolfin> nah
[18:46:16] <Colourless> just be be consistant with the rest of the releases, even though jeff's changes are likely not going to do anything
[18:46:20] <Fingolfin> this is straigh RC1 CVS
[18:46:20] <Fingolfin> no updates
[18:46:33] <Colourless> ah ok good
[18:47:05] <Dominus> and what is with the resolution switch crash on OSX?
[18:47:07] <Colourless> you should probably make a note on the homepage that you've updated the macosx release
[18:51:02] <Fingolfin> will do once I did
[18:51:23] <Fingolfin> Dominus: will loook into that now, but I am not sure I can do much about it... then, maybe the SDL CVS helps here as well...
[18:51:51] <Dominus> I just thought you might want to investigate before releasing your Rc1a
[18:52:13] <Fingolfin> yeah
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[18:54:56] <Fingolfin> full screen works fine for me. There is a bug, though, when switching back to window mode: the exult mouse posiion is out of sync with the real mouse
[18:56:27] <Fingolfin> hm, weird
[18:56:50] <Fingolfin> I can't move the window over the full screen range; seems to be limited to (guess) 1024x768 subpart of my 1280x1024 screen
[18:56:56] <Colourless> sounds to me like sdl is a little buggy
[18:57:18] <Colourless> heh, win9x got those sorts of bugs quite often if a program crashed :-)
[18:59:31] <Dominus> so, Colourless, about that GlideXP/3dfx-U thing. How is it going?
[19:00:11] <Dominus> do they really make progress or is it only a bit better?
[19:00:49] <Colourless> hell if I know what 'they' do. i haven't done much to glidexp, but I want to find that bug which is crashing the likes of ultima 9
[19:01:15] <Colourless> i'm going to attempt to find it this weekend and maybe make another release
[19:01:54] <Dominus> if you want you can use me as guinea pig as well (as always). build 1005 worked fine only 1006 crashed me
[19:01:54] <Colourless> i know kind of where the crash is occuring, but don't know it's exact cause
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[19:09:33] * Colourless is leaving soon
[19:09:54] <Dominus> sleep well
[19:09:58] <wjp> g'night
[19:10:23] <Colourless> cya
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[19:47:03] <Fingolfin> Dominus|away: when you come back
[19:47:35] <Dominus|away> when I have watched the latest off that truck
[19:47:38] <Fingolfin> oh no, I take that back
[19:47:41] <Fingolfin> hehe
[19:47:41] <Dominus|away> THAT truck
[19:47:47] <Fingolfin> I know =)
[19:47:51] <wjp> *grin*
[19:47:56] <Fingolfin> wjp: I meant you, actually
[19:47:56] <Fingolfin> please ssh into CVS
[19:48:00] <Fingolfin> argh
[19:48:05] <Fingolfin> ssh into SF
[19:48:20] * Fingolfin is a bit .... weird currently, as usual
[19:48:21] <Fingolfin> then just run the "update.sh" script, so that it fixes your files to have g+w access as well
[19:48:28] <wjp> they don't?
[19:48:34] <Fingolfin> (like in the images section)
[19:48:41] <Fingolfin> -rw-r--r-- 1 wjpalens exult 124561 Jan 11 07:10 alagnar.gif
[19:48:41] <Fingolfin> etc.
[19:48:57] <Fingolfin> and Dominus|away and Kirben should do that, too
[19:48:57] <wjp> hm
[19:49:17] <Fingolfin> I think using update.sh whenever one did some changes might be good, to get the access rights correct of all files
[19:49:21] <Fingolfin> (it just runs a chmod -R g+w .
[19:49:21] * wjp wonders why he even touched that file
[19:50:24] <Fingolfin> should I put a note on the fixed OS X binary to the front page, or just in the forum?
[19:50:33] <wjp> front page
[19:52:53] <wjp> we should probably keep local var indices 16 bit, right? Not much of a point in changing those to 32 bit. Would only increase file size
[19:55:40] <Fingolfin> guess so
[19:55:53] <Fingolfin> nobody should use so many local vars anyway =)
[19:56:00] <Fingolfin> (famous last words of a programmer)
[20:00:07] <Fingolfin> hmm.. <g> do we rate http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=5282&t=5282 as "funny" or as "censored" ? =)
[20:00:24] <wjp> the 'important notice'?
[20:00:31] <Fingolfin> aye
[20:00:49] <wjp> hm, killing that thread might be a good idea
[20:01:07] <wjp> it could be considered kind of offensive
[20:01:34] <Fingolfin> yeah
[20:01:53] <wjp> I'll censor it
[20:01:54] <Fingolfin> should we close https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=530347&group_id=2335&atid=102335 ?
[20:02:01] <wjp> which one's that?
[20:02:09] <Fingolfin> "Total Crash"
[20:02:18] <Fingolfin> no information in it whatsoever
[20:02:18] <kefka> ahahah the BSD devil is giving it to Tux
[20:02:21] <Fingolfin> i.e. what OS/exult version/system/etc.
[20:02:37] * Fingolfin wonders if there is anybody here who could make a BSD binary *cough*
[20:03:23] <wjp> yeah, close that one
[20:03:48] <wjp> it's been a while since we had any "It doesn't work! (TM)" bugreports
[20:10:10] <Fingolfin> =)
[20:20:11] <wjp> hm, opcode 0x31 has a 16 bit offset, but we don't have a clue what the silly thing does
[20:20:21] * wjp wonders if he should add a 32 bit version of it
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[20:39:01] <wjp> ok, that should do it...
[20:39:12] * wjp more or less finished adding 32 bit opcode support
[20:39:31] * wjp thinks Darke isn't going to like this :-)
[20:41:50] <wjp> Clock Nova seems to like the new OSX version
[20:44:04] <Fingolfin> he does?
[20:44:04] * Fingolfin goes to forum
[20:44:49] <Fingolfin> he does like it, it seems =)
[20:47:07] * wjp starts hacking wuc
[20:50:50] <Fingolfin> go willem go! =)
[20:51:07] <wjp> ugh... this isn't going to be pretty
[20:55:43] <wjp> hm, doesn't x86 handle 'multi-mode' opcodes by adding an extra mode byte to the front?
[20:56:24] <Fingolfin> yes
[20:56:45] <Fingolfin> it also has tons of other mode bytes...
[20:56:56] <Fingolfin> resulting in opcode lengths between 1 and 20 bytes I think =)
[20:57:04] <wjp> we probably don't want that, do we? :-)
[20:58:23] <Fingolfin> well.... you want my honest opinion?
[20:58:45] <Fingolfin> it's: no!!!
[20:58:46] <wjp> of course
[20:58:48] <Fingolfin> =)
[20:58:53] <Fingolfin> but then, a single prefix byte isn#T that bad
[20:59:03] <Fingolfin> we just shouldn't let it get out of hand as with Intel
[20:59:42] <Fingolfin> i.e. if we double everything from 16 to 32 bit, we also increase the total data size... might not want this. not sure
[20:59:47] <wjp> hm, on second thought... all code ucc produces will be entirely filled with these prefixes
[21:02:00] <wjp> OTOH, that does depend on how the compiler is implemented
[21:10:16] <wjp> hmm, did you see the mandrake compile error in the bug tracker?
[21:15:06] <Fingolfin> nope
[21:15:09] * Fingolfin goes looking
[21:15:19] <wjp> kind of strange... it sounds like something configure should catch
[21:17:09] <Fingolfin> yeah
[21:19:27] <wjp> does mandrake 8.1 include gcc 3.0.1 by default?
[21:19:33] <wjp> somehow I doubt it...
[21:20:01] <Dominus|away> how is it coming along? broke Exult or exult compile yet? :-)
[21:20:28] <wjp> nah, Exult is now running with a usecode file with one extended header
[21:20:55] <wjp> the extended opcodes should Just Work(tm)
[21:21:12] <Dominus|away> he he
[21:21:17] <wjp> now I just need to update wuc to actually produce the new opcodes... *sigh*
[21:24:01] <wjp> hm, maybe I should first try to patch the >64Kb book usecode function manually
[21:26:00] <Dominus|away> let'S see how it will work
[21:28:07] * wjp disects usecode with dd
[21:28:11] <wjp> this is fun :-)
[21:29:51] <Fingolfin> Dominus|away: you are away, you can#t talk
[21:30:04] <Fingolfin> wjp: =)
[21:30:13] <wjp> woohoo! French SI! :-)
[21:30:44] <wjp> (the last few books won't work as I haven't actually updated the book displaying code yet, though)
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[21:30:56] <wjp|away> bbl (~1 hour)
[21:31:00] <Dominus|away> I'm glad I'm not the only one that produces # and capital letters following :-)
[21:31:18] <wjp|away> capital letters?
[21:31:44] <Dominus|away> like that#S
[21:31:59] <Dominus|away> or that'S
[21:35:17] <Fingolfin> hehe
[21:35:34] <Fingolfin> keyboard issue, ' = Shift-# on my KB
[21:36:45] <Dominus|away> on mine as well
[21:40:20] <Dominus|away> ok, I fixed some of the properties on our webpage dir
[21:50:13] * Dominus|away is away now again
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[22:31:08] <wjp> strange... I wonder if our 'book hack' is correct for SI
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[22:32:57] <wjp> argh... this is too much... those books are all over the place
[22:34:53] <Fingolfin> wjp: it's not as if you had to read them all, is it? =)
[22:35:45] <wjp> books with quality 213 are actually in two different usecode functions
[22:41:33] <Fingolfin> a hack to get around size restrictions?
[22:43:19] <wjp> well, that's the reason why there's several usecode function for the books, yes
[22:43:42] <wjp> (but WHY couldn't they use a simple 'switchboard' usecode function?! ARGH)
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[22:45:17] <wjp> these are the usecode functions with book texts in them: (flood warning...)
[22:45:20] <wjp> //SI: 0x63b: 182, 184, 201, 209, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217,
[22:45:22] <wjp> // 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 250
[22:45:22] <wjp> // 0x62a: 213, 220, 241
[22:45:22] <wjp> // 0x638: 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 127, 138, 141, 150
[22:45:22] <wjp> // 0x2c1: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,89,75,62,88,67,82,87,91,81,93,98,96,97,99,
[22:45:22] <wjp> // 100,101,111,120,125,130,213,92,73,79,80,83,84,85,61,63,64,
[22:45:23] <wjp> // 94,95,65,66,68,69,70,71,72,76,77,151
[22:45:24] <wjp> // 0x282: 0,24,25,39,44,47,61,62,63,64,67,68,69,70,71,73,74,75,76,
[22:45:26] <wjp> // 78,79,80,83,90,91,92,98
[22:45:56] <wjp> 0x282 and 0x2c1 are the actual book shapes
[22:47:41] <wjp> if you assume that it makes at least a little sense, 0x638 can't be used for the same books as 0x2c1. (both have 120, 125)
[22:48:04] <wjp> so 0x638 would be used for 0x282 when 120 <= quality <= 150
[22:48:38] <wjp> (which is what we do now, in fact)
[22:49:05] <wjp> 63b and 62a clash, so those won't be in the same shape either
[22:49:42] <wjp> what a mess
[22:55:18] <wjp> anyway, the new 32 bit stuff seems to work
[22:56:38] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[22:57:55] <Fingolfin> uhmpf
[22:58:06] <Dominus> ?
[23:15:38] * wjp wonders why wud uses shorts for everything
[23:18:03] * Dominus tries some script and will return in a second
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[23:19:50] <Dominus> once again
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[23:21:07] <Dominus> argh
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[23:23:42] <wjp> *grin* all those control characters in french really screw up wud's output in places :-)
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[23:26:37] <Dominus> hmpf, I tried out some script for automatically identify me when I change my nick back... didn't work as I wanted...
[23:29:27] <Fingolfin> he
[23:30:32] <wjp> my little perl script does do that :-P
[23:30:50] <wjp> (well, it just identifies when nickserv asks it to, actually)
[23:30:59] <Dominus> Trillain has some scripting but I don't get it yet...
[23:31:27] <Dominus> trying once more
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[23:33:22] <Dominus> hm, doesn't take the script
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[23:35:12] <Dominus> argh, damn Trillian doesn't find the script
[23:37:35] <wjp> I should go
[23:37:39] <wjp> night
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