#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Mar 2012 (GMT)

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[22:13:08] <Cahaan> hi guys
[22:13:23] <Cahaan> I've a big desire to play U7 again...
[22:13:34] <Cahaan> but I've read the thing about disappearing objects
[22:13:48] <Cahaan> are there also disappearing in older versions of Exult?
[22:15:35] <Cahaan> Colourless, Dominus, wjp, any clue ? (sorry for highlighting)
[22:24:07] <Dominus> Cahaan, the possibility is there
[22:24:24] <Dominus> it will probably not hit the older versions.
[22:24:37] <Dominus> but the older versions have other problems of course
[22:27:05] <Cahaan> yes I understand that
[22:27:32] <Cahaan> when do you think the bug first appeared?
[22:27:39] <Cahaan> I guess it's difficult to say
[22:27:42] <Dominus> if you save often and sometimes restart exult you might be safe too
[22:27:55] <Cahaan> hmm good to know
[22:28:18] <Cahaan> thanks :)
[22:28:24] <Dominus> the bug has always been there because in a nutshell we haven'T kept track of items created in the game
[22:29:07] <Dominus> so when schedules became better in Exult more items were produced that weren't being kept tracked off
[22:29:25] <Dominus> when caching in/out an area problems start
[22:30:21] <Cahaan> ok I see. So basically if I keep track of my items during the game and check before saving I should be safe
[22:30:32] <Dominus> no
[22:30:47] <Dominus> it has nothing to do with YOUR items
[22:31:11] <Cahaan> oh ok, it's related to all items in various areas
[22:31:51] <Dominus> yup and that there may be more items than the engine knows about and gets confused on caching in/out anarea
[22:32:42] <Cahaan> then I guess the best thing to do might be to keep various savegames and come back to an older savegame in case of problems (and report a bug if I spot one)
[22:33:06] <Dominus> yes, save often
[22:34:28] <Cahaan> ok thanks a lot :) btw I'm a big fan of Exult since a long time, you did a great job with that engine
[22:34:46] <Dominus> an email from Marzo that explains it probably better if you understand what he writes about :)
[22:34:47] <Dominus> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=19935806
[22:35:00] <Cahaan> nice, thank you
[22:36:53] <Dominus> so Marzo observed this as a possible problem which it then became in 2009/2010
[22:39:08] <Cahaan> okay I've read it all
[22:39:30] <Cahaan> I do cpp everyday at work so I know what he's talking about
[22:40:01] <Cahaan> is he still working on the issue?
[22:40:33] <Dominus> oh, good. I don't actually know much about coding, can only do some basic editing and fiddling so I tend to forget the correct terms he was using
[22:40:34] <sh4rm4> nobody is working on nothing
[22:40:56] <Dominus> sadly Marzo put working on it back on the shelf
[22:41:13] <Dominus> sh4rm4: is sadly right :(
[22:42:06] <Cahaan> I see :s too bad
[22:42:22] <Dominus> I wish someone would take over the project again...
[22:43:14] <sh4rm4> Cahaan, i used exult in 2007 and played through SI without any bug
[22:43:34] <sh4rm4> and i used exult from end of 2011 to play BG and hit multiple bugs
[22:43:43] <sh4rm4> to the point of being unplayable
[22:43:47] <Cahaan> dang
[22:44:17] <Cahaan> now does it come from BG/SI or from Exult version... who knows
[22:44:44] <Cahaan> anyway, I hope that in a few months I will have some free time to help on the project
[22:45:23] <Cahaan> (impossible for me these days,work and evening classes that will be finished in June)
[22:46:24] <sh4rm4> the safest thing to do is probably a rewrite, using the existing exult source as a reference
[22:46:24] <Cahaan> did you it the bugs at the beginning of the game already? (in BG)
[22:46:56] <sh4rm4> Cahaan, i hit them on long journeys in dungeons, so after getting outside of trinsic
[22:47:02] <Dominus> whenever you feel like (or find the time) contributing is fine :)
[22:47:29] <sh4rm4> Dominus, isnt there a java impl of exult ?
[22:47:53] <Cahaan> I played BG further than that with a version from 2009
[22:48:22] <Cahaan> and were those bugs related to disappearing objects sh4rm4?
[22:48:32] <Dominus> sh4rm4: a rewrite of Exult to Java. but it hasn't been touched in ages by Jeff and will probably do the same mistakes
[22:49:26] <sh4rm4> hmm if it wasnt a mere translation it may be better designed, and at least free of spurious memory overwrites
[22:49:59] <Cahaan> rewriting would take too much time imho
[22:50:11] <Dominus> I'm pretty sure it's a translation
[22:50:33] <Cahaan> the game is already playable, the bugs could just be fixed (still imho :)
[22:50:39] <sh4rm4> Cahaan, the bugs i experienced where that the game entered endless loops, then i couldnt teleport anymore, then i couldn't even leave the current scenario anymore
[22:50:39] <Dominus> and the way Marzo proposed is likely to have a performance penalty
[22:51:41] <sh4rm4> Cahaan, i reported everything to sf.net's bugtracker, documented with screenshots
[22:51:55] <Cahaan> sounds good :)
[22:53:16] <Cahaan> is there some documentation on the code architecture?
[22:53:39] <Cahaan> when I'll have some time I'd like to check the code and maybe try to fix one thing or two
[22:56:00] <sh4rm4> Cahaan, if you end up doing a rewrite, please use C without the ++
[22:56:22] <Dominus> sh4rm4: if you start this up again...
[22:56:54] <sh4rm4> well, if he uses C i might join his effort :)
[22:57:06] <Dominus> fixes versus rewrite...
[22:57:37] <sh4rm4> a 100KLOC beast of C++ code is hard to fix for outsiders
[22:57:58] <Dominus> and I'm sure rewriting it in C is much easier for outsiders
[22:58:15] <sh4rm4> indeed
[22:58:49] <sh4rm4> step A) make something like libultima which can parse the data files and scripts (usecode)
[22:59:01] <sh4rm4> step B) glue a frontend on top of that
[22:59:16] <Dominus> sure, get on it then
[22:59:23] <sh4rm4> libultima could be reused by other tools
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