#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 May 2001 (GMT)

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[07:02:42] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
[07:02:42] --- Topic for #exult set by ChanServ at Fri May 11 01:28:42 2001
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[10:44:59] <hancuso4> hallo
[10:45:38] <hancuso4> please.. fix the bug at fawn
[10:47:26] <Kirben> First make sure you are using latest snapshot and if bug continues add it at http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=2335
[10:49:09] <hancuso4> dupre's trail...
[10:49:16] <hancuso4> trial
[10:50:44] <hancuso4> i am so afraid of that others can't understand by my poor english skills..
[10:51:22] <hancuso4> my writing skills too..
[10:51:26] <Kirben> What is your native language ?
[10:51:49] <hancuso4> korean..^^
[10:52:28] <Kirben> I don't think any developers know that one, so will have to use english
[10:53:00] <hancuso4> hmm..
[10:54:18] <hancuso4> I've written it already.. and say it to oter people..^^
[10:55:48] <hancuso4> his name is.. um..
[10:56:09] <hancuso4> I can't remember it..;;
[10:57:17] <Kirben> That bug report looks clear enough, it might take awhile until it is fixed
[10:57:46] <hancuso4> please, say to others for fixing dupre's trial ^^ I need your help..^^
[10:58:59] <Kirben> ok
[10:59:05] <hancuso4> danke~ ^^
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[13:21:47] <Kirben> Jeff, if you read tihs long later check out bug reported at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=423720&group_id=2335&atid=102335 which seems to crash Exult and stop progress in Serpent Isle
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[14:01:16] <wjp|work> hi
[14:01:21] <Colourless> hi
[14:32:07] <wjp|work> argh... I just hate this... I need one lousy CPU fan from storage downstairs but I can't get it because the one person in the institute authorized to sign for it is on vacation for 2 weeks
[14:32:28] <Colourless> heh
[14:33:23] <wjp|work> did you try anything with the plugin btw?
[14:33:31] <Colourless> nope
[14:34:04] <Colourless> i'll probably try doing something a bit later
[14:34:15] <wjp|work> 19645 marta 10 0 550M 466M 465M D 1.1 93.0 37:41 Sqpe
[14:34:28] <wjp|work> <-- ouch! that 550M is memory usage...
[14:34:43] <wjp|work> for one process...
[14:34:47] <Colourless> what is it?
[14:34:58] <wjp|work> Splus, some kind of statistical program
[14:35:16] <wjp|work> good thing that machine has 2Gb of swap :-)
[14:35:54] <Colourless> that sort of memory usage would almost suggest a memory leak
[14:36:04] <wjp|work> or big data sets
[14:37:07] <wjp|work> (+ very memory-inefficient algorithms)
[14:37:38] <wjp|work> it's only using 1% of CPU because it can't get to its data fast enough :-)
[14:38:13] <Colourless> that's a pretty badly written program
[14:38:29] <wjp|work> yeah, looks like it
[14:39:47] <wjp|work> time for a tea break... :-) bbl
[14:39:58] <Colourless> ok
[14:43:10] <wjp|work> b
[14:43:35] <Colourless> quick break
[14:44:07] <wjp|work> I just got some tea... I'm drinking it here :-)
[14:44:59] <Colourless> i wouldn't haven't even said i had left
[14:45:24] <wjp|work> it kind of depended on if anyone else was downstairs
[14:46:11] <Colourless> ah
[16:37:47] <wjp|work> going home... bbl
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[18:09:47] <Dominus> hi
[18:09:52] <Colourless> hi
[18:10:04] <Dominus> Hi freedman,colourless,chimera
[18:10:10] <Dominus> matt0
[18:10:30] <Colourless> heh, i didn't even know that freedman was here. :)
[18:10:51] <Colourless> show how much attention i pay to irc
[18:11:01] <Dominus> freedman: how hard will it be to hunt down those sounds that are BG specific?
[18:11:12] <Dominus> colourless: :-)
[18:20:31] <freedman> Hi. Sorry... it was so quiet that I wandered off:-)
[18:20:39] <Dominus> :-)
[18:21:19] <freedman> BG-specific? Probably a 'grep' for the sfx_play method (whatever it's called) will reveal the handfull of places.
[18:21:43] <Dominus> ?
[18:22:45] <Dominus> somehow I didnīt understand this at all :-)
[18:22:45] <freedman> Looking now..... There's one in objs/animate.cc
[18:23:06] <Dominus> ahh, okay, actually I wanted to offer my help on finding them :-)
[18:24:28] <freedman> Okay. SEarch for play_sound_effect and play_wave_sfx in all the .cc files.
[18:24:52] <Dominus> k
[18:24:58] <freedman> Some are okay. It's the ones with constants that need to be checked and maybe fixed.
[18:25:12] <Dominus> an example?
[18:26:43] <freedman> I see one in drag.cc, a couple in effects.cc, one in gamewin.cc...
[18:27:20] <Colourless> so, who was bad and hasn't been using game::get_resource() ?
[18:27:51] <freedman> Oh, there's a table of them in animate.cc:-(
[18:28:04] <freedman> Colourless: Guess I'm the-weakest-link!
[18:28:16] <Colourless> :)
[18:28:29] <Colourless> YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK!
[18:28:39] <freedman> Are the SFX's set up in the resource list?
[18:29:17] <Colourless> nope, they should be though
[18:29:49] <freedman> I'm working on other stuff at the moment (guards, Wasteland:-))
[18:31:04] <freedman> And I >think< I've fixed the 'Guardian Chipmunk' bug.
[18:32:14] <Colourless> yeah, i got the email
[18:33:10] <freedman> Turned out to be pretty simple.
[18:34:36] <freedman> I saw the post above about the Dupre Trial bug in Fawn. Don't know when I'll get to that... It would help if there were a savegame.
[18:35:33] <Dominus> so maybe if hancuso4 shows up again, we should ask him for one, huh?
[18:35:39] <Colourless> yeah
[18:35:49] <Colourless> i can't even remember what the bug was
[18:35:59] <freedman> Yes, since I haven't played that far.
[18:36:15] <freedman> Colourless: He says it crashes at the start of the trial.
[18:36:18] <Colourless> :) i had no idea that it was even possible to play that far
[18:36:22] <Colourless> ah
[18:36:48] <Dominus> Iīm trying to get some SI playing done tonight, but Iīm running into sound issues and other bugs along the way
[18:37:11] <Dominus> sound issues: trying to come up with an actual table for the sounds
[18:37:16] <freedman> Yes, I had to turn off the SFX's.
[18:37:44] <Dominus> my SI sfx pack is getting better along the way
[18:37:47] <freedman> I saw a funny bug in Fawn where this NPC kept approaching, then teleported away, then approached again, over and over.
[18:38:32] <freedman> Dom: That's what I need. Playing with Midi SFX is terrible. Do you think we should just remove that?
[18:38:48] <Dominus> yep!
[18:39:00] <Dominus> though it is quite okay for SI
[18:39:14] <Dominus> (if your card supports soundfonts) .-)
[18:39:29] <freedman> Okay... maybe I won't for now.
[18:39:29] <Colourless> yeah. The SFX in SI are ok
[18:39:47] <freedman> Does my SB16 support soundfonts? What's a foundfont?:-)
[18:39:52] <Dominus> only those sfx that get called by the BG number... :-)
[18:41:15] <Dominus> only the AWE32/64 and Live series supports soundfonts and I donīt know about other companies than Creative
[18:41:16] <Colourless> soundfont is a wavetable data file used by SB32, SB64 and SB Live. And no, you can't use one
[18:41:54] <freedman> But the SI SFX's don't sound as bad in the original as they do in Exult.
[18:42:46] <Dominus> thatīs becuase in the original you use those digital sounds like the ones Joseph recorded
[18:43:39] <Dominus> the sfx exult plays with the midi sfx are similar to the ones that would get played in the origianl when you select a Roland MT32
[18:44:10] <freedman> Oh. I take it that Dancer didn't know the format of the digital effects?
[18:44:13] <Colourless> that is provided you have a card that can properly play the sfx that exult uses
[18:45:02] <Dominus> I remeber a discussion on the forum about this and that he somehow couldnīt figure them out or something
[18:45:03] <freedman> Maybe it's just as well I've stayed out of the sound code.
[18:45:28] <freedman> Yes. They don't seem to have been in a well-known format.
[18:45:33] <Dominus> colourless was it you or dancer that extracted the SI sfx list?
[18:45:39] <Colourless> twas me
[18:45:53] <Dominus> any idea why it screwed up that much?
[18:46:07] <Colourless> no :)
[18:46:18] <freedman> The first to complain has to fix it:-)
[18:46:39] <Dominus> I am fixing it by hand and hearing right now
[18:47:10] <Dominus> it would only help with the sfx packs knowing the list before I go into the game :-)
[18:47:13] <freedman> It can be tough; a lot of them just sound like clicks and pops on my machine.
[18:47:42] <Colourless> i really have no idea what when wrong. If i re read all the Miles Sound System SDK docs i might be able to get it to work
[18:48:13] <freedman> BTW: Miles himself sometimes posts on Slashdot, and has answered emails from me.
[18:48:29] <Dominus> I play in awindow and have shortcut set to the stderr.txt, whenever an odd sound gets played I try to find out what it was meant to be with the # showing in the log and by what i did in the game
[18:49:02] <freedman> Good plan.
[18:49:38] <Dominus> tedious, especially with those bg # playing (not meaning to bug you)
[18:50:22] <Colourless> I've been tempted to email him, but that wouldn't really do much good. The SFX are in formats that are used by either the AIL Adlib Driver or the MT32 Driver. If they were to be used we'd have to emulate one of them.
[18:50:29] <Dominus> btw, josephs waves for si are in the correct order
[18:51:07] <freedman> With all these nice .wav collections being made, I think more reverse-engineering would be a waste of time.
[18:51:16] <Dominus> true
[18:52:43] <Colourless> yeah. Plus I don't think any of use would really have the knowledge to do all that
[18:53:26] <freedman> I certainly don't. Besides, with my SB16, the original SFX's sound terrible.
[18:54:05] <Colourless> they'd sound exactly the same :)
[18:54:28] <freedman> Funny... M.McIntyre on the 'dragons' Usenet group used to complain about Exult, but is now working on an SFX pack:-)
[18:55:16] <Dominus> heīs the one who brought me on to the bug that didnīt allow to play sound with less than 0.186 s
[18:55:26] <Colourless> people like to complain
[18:55:31] <freedman> Colourless: He's praising the new savegame interface!
[18:55:33] <Dominus> heīs building on top of my sfx pack
[18:55:44] <Dominus> and I built on top of JMīs :-)
[18:55:45] <freedman> Dom: I thought you found that bug.
[18:56:04] <Dominus> I did, but he complained that a lot of his sounds werenīt playing
[18:56:05] <Colourless> as far as I know, everyone has praised the new savegame interface
[18:56:42] <Dominus> except those that need the vintage look
[18:56:42] <freedman> It's a big help for development, since I can keep around all the testcase savegames I need now.
[18:57:19] <freedman> Dom: It'll be easy to give them a 'vintage' option. The old code's still there.
[18:57:20] <Dominus> or helping me to reload specific sound tiggering events :-)
[18:57:48] <Dominus> as I have outlined in the FAQ it is not so hard
[18:58:19] <freedman> True, but we should probably make it simpler... one of these days.
[18:58:31] <Dominus> only have "vintagekebinding files", option to disable Paperdolls before loading and to have the disc icon load the old savegump
[18:58:43] <freedman> At the moment, I'd like to get the Britannians to defend themselves:-)
[18:58:58] <Dominus> have the vintagekeybindings hardcoded
[18:59:10] <Dominus> yeah defending themselves would be great
[18:59:45] <freedman> It's a bit of work. Got to make sure the guards eventually go away if you leave the area.
[18:59:58] * Dominus sees that he forgot to mention in the FAQ that the SI paperdoll can be turned off ingame
[19:00:09] <freedman> It wouldn't be good if everyone continued to hate the Avatar for the rest of the game:-)
[19:00:44] <Colourless> If i'm not mistaken my caching emulation code should automatically do that
[19:00:48] <Dominus> die avatar, die!!!
[19:01:06] <freedman> Colourless: Good! That's what I was hoping.
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[19:01:46] <Colourless> you still need to go a fairly far distance away (2 superchunks)
[19:01:48] <wjp> hi all
[19:01:51] <Dominus> hi
[19:02:01] <freedman> Hi
[19:02:02] <Colourless> hi
[19:02:27] <freedman> Colourless: I'll have to see how far you need to go in the original.
[19:02:58] <wjp> freedman: the invisible man in knight's test is really behaving weird...
[19:03:08] <freedman> So I've heard...
[19:03:26] <Dominus> the man is some kind of machine that is in the crematorium
[19:03:37] <wjp> he keeps turning invisible, visible, invisible, visible...
[19:03:57] <Dominus> wjp: is he a machine for you as well?
[19:04:13] <freedman> Can't figure out how that happened. I haven't done much lately, esp. in SI.
[19:04:15] <wjp> he looks like a machine to you?
[19:04:20] <Dominus> yep
[19:04:28] <wjp> hmm, he's just a pikemen for me
[19:04:31] <Dominus> one moment, il screenshot
[19:04:32] <wjp> (when he's visible)
[19:04:47] <wjp> s/men/man/
[19:05:07] <freedman> wjp: I think he was always doing that before. Maybe he's an 'animated' shape.
[19:05:24] <wjp> well... there's constant puffs of smoke appearing too
[19:05:41] <wjp> and the game slows to a crawl because of tons of debugging output
[19:05:59] <wjp> all in all not a fun area to debug ;-)
[19:06:08] <freedman> Yes, I saw pretty much the same thing. Since it didn't affect the plot, I ignored it:-)
[19:06:27] <Colourless> I think much of SI is probably going to be like that
[19:07:02] <freedman> There's a Usecode function getting called over-and-over. Something I don't understand.
[19:07:13] <freedman> The work-around is to save/restore.
[19:07:59] <freedman> Colourless: Yes, it's happend in other places; I think Fawn. There's probably some process-control function we need to figure out.
[19:08:01] <Dominus> http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/exult/1.jpg
[19:08:10] <wjp> have to go again... bbl
[19:08:38] <freedman> See ya. I've got to go too, soon.
[19:08:51] <Colourless> hah
[19:08:53] <freedman> Dom: That's pretty funny. Haven't seen that!
[19:09:17] <Dominus> and then it behaves like wjp described#
[19:09:30] <Dominus> not funny itīs nt killable
[19:09:36] <Dominus> nt=not
[19:09:45] <Dominus> :-)
[19:10:07] <freedman> :-)
[19:10:16] <matt0> dominus!!
[19:10:23] <Dominus> matt0
[19:10:23] <matt0> freed man!
[19:10:31] <freedman> Hello!
[19:10:32] <matt0> Colourless!
[19:10:36] <matt0> you're all here! hehe
[19:10:43] <matt0> this is indeed a rare occasion hehe
[19:10:49] <Colourless> no we're not
[19:10:53] <Colourless> no fingolfin
[19:10:56] <freedman> I'll be leaving soon, though. It's noon here.
[19:10:59] <Dominus> no dancer
[19:10:59] <Colourless> hi btw
[19:10:59] <matt0> doh
[19:11:09] <matt0> fingolfin ... that guy hasn't been here for a while
[19:11:21] <Dominus> not true
[19:11:22] <freedman> We're all in different timezones.
[19:11:39] <freedman> He's usually here several hours earlier.
[19:11:50] <Colourless> ?seen fingolfin
[19:11:50] <exultbot_> fingolfin left IRC around Mon May 14 20:38:18 2001 (GMT) (Cya)
[19:12:04] <matt0> hrrrmph
[19:12:07] <Dominus> but he has a new job now
[19:12:15] <matt0> fingolfin... I haven't seen that guy for a while
[19:12:15] <Dominus> busy, i guess
[19:12:18] <matt0> is that better? hehe
[19:12:27] <Dominus> :-)
[19:12:42] <Colourless> much
[19:13:41] <Dominus> Iīm still wonderin why my knighttest is screwed up that much and not wjps
[19:14:06] <matt0> I've been wondering that also
[19:14:17] <freedman> Does it happen if you start the test over?
[19:14:33] <Dominus> Iīm just starting a new game to test
[19:14:36] <Dominus> wait
[19:14:47] <freedman> Time to hide...
[19:15:28] <Dominus> it doesnīt happen with a new game
[19:15:38] <freedman> Fixed:-)
[19:15:43] <Dominus> :-)
[19:15:56] <Colourless> bug closed :)
[19:15:57] <freedman> But do you get the strange animations wjp described?
[19:16:56] <Dominus> yep
[19:17:42] <freedman> One of these days... I'm afraid SI is #3 in my priority list, after finishing BG and doing a little work on ExultStudio.
[19:18:21] <freedman> (Actually, my #1 priority right now is lunch.)
[19:22:08] <freedman> See ya.
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[19:35:10] <Dominus> k, have to go as well :-)
[19:35:15] <Dominus> cu
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[20:08:36] * chimera|wookin stumbles into the room
[20:08:38] <chimera|wookin> dang!
[20:09:00] <Colourless> interesting
[20:09:32] <chimera|wookin> you found something?
[20:10:02] <Colourless> no
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[22:10:26] <Colourless> i should be going
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