#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Nov 2001 (GMT)

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[07:58:34] <wjp> hi
[07:59:50] <Dr_Zaius> hi
[08:01:11] <Dr_Zaius> i can play TiMidity in the background and then run exult and its smooth, but timidity forked from exult is choppy
[08:01:20] <Dr_Zaius> o_O
[08:01:59] <wjp> hmm, guess our mixer needs some optimizing
[08:03:26] <Dr_Zaius> and the scalar engines, but you guys knew that :-)
[08:04:09] <wjp> those just take a lot of processing power. It's unlikely to be greatly improved by optimizations
[08:05:03] <Dr_Zaius> i have a DOS program that runs 2xSai fast
[08:06:08] <Dr_Zaius> maybe cause its done in assembly i dunno
[08:07:07] <wjp> hmm, yes, I seem to remember something about an assembly version
[08:08:02] <Dr_Zaius> what do i have to have to get compressed savegames?
[08:08:08] <wjp> zlib
[08:08:15] <Dr_Zaius> configure said i dont have zip.h but i do have some library
[08:08:25] <wjp> you need zlib.h and zutil.h
[08:08:32] <Dr_Zaius> oy
[08:08:53] <Dr_Zaius> why do you have to have those? is zip technology not free
[08:09:03] <wjp> yes... so?
[08:09:17] <Dr_Zaius> you could just put it in the distro
[08:09:24] <wjp> why?
[08:09:30] <Dr_Zaius> cause im lazy
[08:09:46] <wjp> not good enough ;-)
[08:09:51] <Dr_Zaius> :)
[08:10:23] <wjp> anyway, zlib should be a common library
[08:11:31] <Dr_Zaius> i have /usr/include/zlib.h
[08:12:20] <wjp> no zutil.h?
[08:12:57] <Dr_Zaius> /usr/local/qt-2.3.0/src/3rdparty/zlib/zutil.h
[08:13:00] <Dr_Zaius> /usr/src/linux-2.4.4/fs/cramfs/inflate/zutil.h
[08:13:14] <Dr_Zaius> what if i moved one of those to /usr/include?
[08:13:23] <wjp> would work
[08:13:36] <Dr_Zaius> is the library libz?
[08:13:41] <wjp> yeah
[08:13:51] <Dr_Zaius> yay
[08:13:56] <wjp> it's called zlib, but the library files are libz.a/so
[08:14:29] <Dr_Zaius> ive got 113
[08:16:08] <Dr_Zaius> do i have to recompile this whole thing?
[08:16:45] * wjp nods
[08:27:52] <matto> ?seen fingolfin
[08:27:52] <exultbot> fingolfin left #exult around Wed Nov 14 23:25:20 2001 (GMT)
[08:28:50] <matto> blast
[08:29:20] <Dr_Zaius> indeed
[08:29:32] <matto> fingolfin has been in the news recently, I wanted to talk to him about it :)
[08:29:42] * matto does a double take
[08:29:48] <matto> Dr_Zaius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[08:30:21] <Dr_Zaius> ...
[08:30:25] <matto> wjp: only a few more days until the new Terry Goodkind.. mmmmm
[08:31:36] <Dr_Zaius> wjp: in fact i did not have to recompile the whole thing, this is fortunate since that would take so long
[08:32:42] <Dr_Zaius> how long does it take you to compile exult+studio+tools matto?
[08:35:19] <Dr_Zaius> matto
[08:39:49] <Dr_Zaius> well... it takes me about an hour :-)
[08:41:36] <matto> Dr_Zaius: I've never tried compiling it, actually
[08:44:25] <matto> hmm.. dr zaius.. what does that sound familiar to me ...
[08:46:46] <Dr_Zaius> dr zaius dr zaius
[08:48:46] <matto> planet of the apes?
[08:49:12] <matto> I can picture Charlseton Heston saying "Dr Zaius" hehe
[08:49:59] <Dr_Zaius> hrmm yes that is what it is from but it makes me think of the Simpsons instead :)
[08:50:11] <Dr_Zaius> someone posted to the forum about this
[08:50:20] <matto> a simpson episode I missed?
[08:50:58] <Dr_Zaius> Troy McClure in Planet of The Apes: The Musical
[09:03:37] <wjp> what was Max in the news about, btw?
[09:04:08] <matto> wjp: well ther was a story on slashdot and max's email was linked
[09:04:18] <matto> http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/11114/100/7045848/
[09:04:37] <matto> apparently Max has his fingers in a lot of Mac projects :)
[09:04:58] <wjp> yeah :-)
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[09:07:51] <wjp> hi
[09:10:28] <Dr_Zaius> hi
[09:10:51] --- Dr_Zaius is now known as SB-X
[09:11:07] * matto reads the exult discussion
[09:11:13] <matto> I had forgot you could ride a giant turtle in SI! cool!
[09:21:22] <matto> looks like Max aka Moscow Dragon is very interested in exult :)
[09:22:23] <wjp> yeah
[09:28:10] <SB-X> :)
[09:41:54] <psyquark> this is no fun, saving crashes exult after one point in the game :(
[09:42:12] <wjp> what point is that?
[09:42:21] <matto> sounds like a dominis bug :)
[09:42:36] <wjp> also: what version of exult and OS are you using?
[09:43:36] <psyquark> in freedom mountain in the final test after pushing the lever you are teleported to, CVS version from Nov 14 on linux
[09:43:51] <psyquark> i can play past that but not save
[09:44:15] <wjp> any messages on the stderr/stdout when it crashes?
[09:44:24] <psyquark> Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
[09:44:54] <matto> ah.. the dreaded sdl parachute
[09:45:05] <wjp> anything before that?
[09:47:08] <psyquark> only monsters looking for a foe... strangly after crashing exult 5 times it works now
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[09:48:29] <SharpTooth> <bow> Hello all.
[09:48:31] <wjp> hi
[09:48:35] <SB-X> hi
[09:49:23] <matto> SharpTooth!!!!
[09:51:35] * SharpTooth blinkblinks. "Umm... hi. I take it this is part of the Matto Greeting(tm)?" <grin>
[09:51:50] <matto> it is indeed
[09:52:12] <SB-X> hmm he yelled at me too :O
[09:52:37] <matto> hehe
[09:52:48] <matto> I wasn't yelling at you
[09:52:53] <matto> I was overjoyed to see you!
[09:53:44] <SB-X> i dont go by Dr Zaius usually tho :)
[09:54:06] <matto> yes, I read a message posted by "SB-X" on the exult forum
[09:54:08] * SharpTooth noddlenods and hops slowly away from the 'matto' creature. "Don't startle matto, he may bite." <grin>
[09:54:28] * matto forgot about sharptooth's "cutesie" actions
[09:55:45] * SB-X pickpockets SharpTooth and steals some beef.
[09:56:10] * SharpTooth innocentwiggles and wonders why he had beef in his pockets. <puzzledfluff>
[09:56:46] * matto binkbonk's sharptooth on the hizzlehead and slopslaps him around a bit with a trick-or-trout
[09:57:23] * SharpTooth feels rather dizzy.
[09:58:43] <matto> ok I'm going to go schlozzle-sleep now
[09:58:48] <matto> giggy-good-night
[09:58:54] <matto> hehehe
[09:58:59] * SharpTooth thinks that matto creature is a bit weird.
[09:59:01] <wjp> bye
[09:59:04] <SharpTooth> Night. <bow>
[09:59:36] <SB-X> bye
[10:09:58] <SB-X> SharpTooth: have you played a MUD?
[10:10:27] <SharpTooth> SB-X: A couple, not for long though, and it was quite a while ago.
[10:10:40] <SB-X> a furry MUD i mean
[10:12:11] <SharpTooth> Nah. Never been on any.
[10:12:38] <SB-X> i was on one a long time ago and i got scared and left :-)
[10:14:02] <SharpTooth> <grin> Any particular reason? Or was it just because you encountered too many weirdo's like myself? <innocentwiggle>
[10:14:56] <SB-X> the latter
[10:15:33] * SharpTooth grins and bows.
[10:15:49] <SB-X> a cat girl teleported to me and wanted me to look at her fluffy tail :-)
[10:16:30] <SB-X> actually i think i played 2 MUDs like that but not very long
[10:17:13] * SharpTooth earperks and nods. "Fair enough."
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[10:28:45] <SB-X> do you guys put libraries you compile and install manually in /usr or /usr/local?
[10:28:58] <wjp> in /usr/local, generally
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[10:58:15] <SharpTooth> Hmm... if it keeps netsplitting at this rate, there's going to be more lines of leaving/joining messages in exultbot's log then there are actually lines of conversation. <grin>
[10:58:53] <wjp> well,
[10:58:54] <wjp> we
[10:58:54] <wjp> should
[10:58:55] <wjp> fix
[10:58:56] <wjp> that
[10:58:57] <wjp> I
[10:58:59] <wjp> guess
[10:58:59] <wjp> ;-)
[10:59:11] <wjp> of
[10:59:11] <wjp> course
[10:59:12] <wjp> ,
[10:59:13] <wjp> typing
[10:59:14] <wjp> this
[10:59:15] <wjp> way
[10:59:16] <wjp> is
[10:59:17] <wjp> really
[10:59:20] <wjp> annoying
[11:00:42] * SharpTooth considers setting up an automagical troutbot that slaps wjp once every rand()+5 minutes. <grin>
[11:00:49] <wjp> hehe :-)
[11:01:07] * SharpTooth hmms... it looks like his client strips percentages...
[11:01:11] * SharpTooth considers setting up an automagical troutbot that slaps wjp once every rand()%10+5 minutes. <grin>
[11:01:11] * exultbot slaps SharpTooth with a large trout
[11:01:17] <SharpTooth> Ahh! That's better.
[11:01:42] * SharpTooth glares at exultbot. Evil creature.
[11:02:51] <SB-X> would exultbot look like an Automaton?
[11:04:01] <SharpTooth> In the 'reality' which is this irc channel, most likely. <grin> Perhaps an addition to SFIsland?
[11:06:25] <SB-X> He can be a bartender, similiar to Denton in Serpents Hold. :-)
[11:07:58] <SB-X> "The center of this island is at exactly 14 degrees west latitude..."
[11:09:03] <SB-X> longitude... you get the idea :-)
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[11:17:39] * SharpTooth nods. "A really, _really_ bored bartender." <grin>
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[11:26:39] <Colourless> hi
[11:28:03] <SharpTooth> Hi. <bow>
[11:31:22] <SB-X> hi
[11:40:30] <wjp|work> hi
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[11:58:03] <wjp> well, OPN seem to be having a bad day
[11:58:28] <wjp> anyway, I have to go
[11:58:29] <wjp> bye
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[13:48:41] <SB-X> hehe
[13:48:54] <Colourless> what?
[13:49:59] <SB-X> when i think about it its not that funny... nevermind :-)
[13:50:23] <SB-X> hopefully they will get the network fixed :-)
[13:51:01] <Colourless> aye
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[14:27:53] <Dominus> hi
[14:27:57] <SharpTooth> Hello.
[14:28:05] <Colourless> hi
[14:28:34] * Dominus wonders what matto meant when he mentioned a Dominus style bug ? :-)
[14:29:17] <Dominus> Colourless: reading the logs of yesterday I wondered if you have timidity working with Exult and how you set it up
[14:30:22] <Colourless> I had it working once, but it's not really possible to do it now.
[14:30:35] <Dominus> ah, why not?
[14:30:43] <SB-X> hi
[14:30:48] <SB-X> Dominus
[14:30:50] <Dominus> hi
[14:30:59] <Colourless> the code has been changed and the timidity driver to exult no longer compiles in windows
[14:31:42] <Dominus> Colourless: sniff, I would have liked to hear it with timidity (as everyone said how good it sounds)
[14:31:48] <Colourless> additionally, the way the driver functions and the way win32 piping works, exult has to be a console application... it's not
[14:32:08] * Dominus understands somewhat
[14:32:19] <Colourless> Dominus, you have a SB Live.... trust me, the Live is better :-)
[14:32:24] <SB-X> does standalone timidity compile in windows?
[14:32:29] <Colourless> yes
[14:32:48] <SB-X> so you can just extract the midi files and play them
[14:32:53] <Dominus> Colourless: the live! is better? Good, so I donīt have to think about that one anymore
[14:33:07] <SB-X> lol
[14:33:12] <SB-X> :-)
[14:33:17] <Colourless> sb-x: theoretically you could do that.
[14:34:01] <Dominus> Colourless: next week, you will have to tell me how to enable midisfx.flx again (as I got it working just fine on my system and wonīt ask stupid support questions)
[14:34:31] * Dominus is currently not at home so canīt digest information properly :-)
[14:34:36] <Colourless> dominus: yeah it is. Timidity has some lag when playing the song, it takes up CPU power, and the processing is only done at 22khz from memory
[14:34:57] <SB-X> hmm
[14:35:12] <SB-X> the end of your sentences get cut off in my window dominus
[14:35:29] <SB-X> at where apostrophe should be
[14:35:41] <SB-X> but if i highlight the text it shows up
[14:35:48] <Colourless> odd
[14:35:58] <Dominus> SB-X: he he, I knoew why it's because of that damn apostroph used on German keyboards
[14:36:19] <Colourless> i thought you were going to stop using that
[14:36:27] <Dominus> Kefka who was here a lot already complained about it
[14:36:36] <SB-X> oh.. i saw that apostrophe :)
[14:36:53] <SB-X> i am using x-chat
[14:37:01] <Dominus> Colourless: I try but it's hard to change my ways
[14:37:21] <Dominus> SB-X: you saw it because I'm trrying hard to type the right one
[14:37:29] <SB-X> where is ' on a german keyboard?
[14:38:29] <Dominus> SB-X: too much hassle to tell :-)
[14:38:38] <Colourless> dom: enabling the midi sfx is actually pretty easy. there are 2 ways of doing it
[14:38:51] <SB-X> on my keyboard it is right next to the ;
[14:39:26] <SB-X> and <Enter>
[14:39:42] <Dominus> SB-X: the German layout is a lot different (I always notice when I have no keybaord driver loaded in DOS and have to type stuff and guess where the American key is)
[14:40:20] <Dominus> SB-X: that's actually where it is on the German layout as well
[14:40:42] <SB-X> hehe then maybe i dont want to know :O
[14:40:49] <Dominus> only you have to type "shift+#" to get it
[14:41:10] <SB-X> :O
[14:41:16] <Dominus> and the one I use to use is just one key it looks like ` only other way round
[14:41:32] <SB-X> `
[14:41:38] <SB-X> oh
[14:41:43] <Dominus> and it's two keys right from 0
[14:42:06] <Dominus> and that's why I'm used to use it :-(
[14:42:49] <Colourless> ha, I can type it too ī :-)
[14:42:57] <Colourless> by pressing 4 keys :-)
[14:43:47] <Dominus> SB-X: my sfx pack for Exult is at http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/exult/drsfx.zip (you asked yesterday, didn't you?)
[14:44:20] <Dominus> 6.5 MB big
[14:44:33] <Dominus> and you have to build it with expack
[14:45:29] <SB-X> yes i did thanks
[14:46:04] <SB-X> i never played U9 so i dont know what the sounds will sound like yet
[14:46:08] <Dominus> Colourless: can you mail me what to change to get midisfx again? gigdr@tesionmail.de
[14:46:19] <Colourless> can do
[14:47:20] <Dominus> SB-X: IMO a much better than the one used in the original U7, but my pack is not yet really finished as it uses often one sfx if there should be different nuances of the sfx
[14:47:44] <Dominus> but Exult doesnīt use all of the sfx anyway so I didnīt finish it yet
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[14:48:12] <Dominus> Colourless: thanks
[14:48:18] <Dominus> Nadir: hi
[14:48:23] <SB-X> Nadir: hi
[14:49:04] <Nadir> <Colourless>Timidity has some lag when playing the song, it takes up CPU power, and the processing is only done at 22khz from memory
[14:49:19] <Nadir> I agree with the first two, but are you sure about the last one ?
[14:52:12] <Colourless> yeah I'm pretty sure exult mixes at 22khz
[14:52:17] <Colourless> hi
[14:55:14] <Colourless> at least it used too. might be different now
[14:56:31] <Dominus> Colourless: another q: what soundfont do you use for Exult? I use a 25MB gs-something font
[14:58:06] <Colourless> something of my own creation. it's 44mb
[14:58:24] <Dominus> sounds interesting
[14:58:44] <Dominus> hm, but unfortunately you have that lousy connection, right?
[14:58:50] <Colourless> yeah
[14:59:07] <Dominus> well, if that ever changes, tell me :-)
[14:59:20] <Colourless> :-)
[15:01:32] <Nadir> can't we mix at 44Khz ? I changed the code a while ago to mix at 16bit instead of the default 8
[15:01:42] <Dominus> ok, Iīll have to go now (running on my mom's lousy connection right now). Bye
[15:01:57] <Colourless> i think it might actually be mixing at 44Khz
[15:02:01] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")
[15:02:30] <SB-X> bye
[15:02:39] <SB-X> oh he's gone
[15:02:56] <Nadir> shouldn't it mix at the default of the device ?
[15:03:31] <Colourless> what device?
[15:05:09] <Nadir> SDL's. Anyway: it mixes at 22Khz under Win32 and 44Khz under everything else. exult/audio/Audio.cc:69
[15:05:44] <Colourless> yeah I saw that.
[15:06:10] <Nadir> have you tried changing that ? when was that change introduced ?
[15:06:31] <Colourless> nope I didn't even know it existed to just then :-)
[15:06:56] <Nadir> Dancer ?
[15:07:48] <Colourless> i've no idea. I would guess so, because it wasn't me that's for sure
[15:08:47] <Nadir> But Dancer only uses Linux...
[15:12:12] <SB-X> so what do you guys like best about C++ over C?
[15:14:06] <SB-X> i am only curious
[15:14:15] <SB-X> :-)
[15:14:24] <Colourless> overloading
[15:15:04] <Colourless> being object orientated doesn't hurt either :-)
[15:15:23] <SharpTooth> The humble ampersand. Throwing const references around is the main reason I use it over C. Better type safety, overloading and
[15:15:32] <SharpTooth> The humble ampersand. Throwing const references around is the main reason I use it over C. Better type safety, overloading and 'object orientated' are also nice.
[15:15:36] <Colourless> operator overloading is just so useful
[15:16:43] <SharpTooth> I very rarely use operator overloading. Mainly because I very rarely create 'simple' types that it would be useful for.
[15:16:58] <Colourless> Vector maths :-)
[15:17:47] <SharpTooth> Vector maths is up the hallway behind the door marked 'EVIL' in 6 inch high letters. <grin>
[15:18:19] <Colourless> bah, it's not evil
[15:19:05] <SharpTooth> <grin> Most of the code that I've tried to use that has involved vector maths is evil. I don't mind it if it's not code related vector maths.
[15:19:42] <Colourless> I guess you'll never work in 3d then :-)
[15:20:08] * SharpTooth quite likes maths, to a point. Once it hits that point it tends to transform into a shambling mass of horrible formulae. <grin>
[15:21:24] <SharpTooth> Nope. I fully intend not to have to work on a 'base' level 3d library. I have no problems working with a 3d library (for example Crystalspace on sourceforge), but writing one? No way. <grin>
[15:22:40] <Nadir> I woduld really like C++ to be more OO, where everything inherits from an Object class. A bit like smalltalk.
[15:22:47] <Nadir> s/woduld/would/
[15:24:07] <SharpTooth> I'd prefer to steal the dynamic binding (IIR-TheTermonology-C) from smalltalk.
[15:24:37] <Colourless> dynamic binding?
[15:26:28] <Nadir> I love what you can do with Java's Introspection/Reflection...
[15:26:54] <Nadir> Load a class at runtime and discover methods and type dynamically
[15:27:12] <SharpTooth> Colourless: I'm trying to find a webpage that can describe it better then I. <grin>
[15:28:21] <Colourless> :-)
[15:28:51] <Nadir> Colourless: you know Java introspection/reflection ?
[15:29:20] <Colourless> nope, I don't know jave
[15:29:27] <Colourless> java ;-)
[15:29:37] <Nadir> Smalltalk will select methods to fire at run time based on object type. This dynamic binding enables polymorphism, or the ability to send different objects the same message and let the objects figure out how best to handle it. OO COBOL supports dynamic binding.
[15:29:47] <Nadir> By default, C++ has only static binding. Declaring virtual functions in C++ provides partial support for dynamic binding with a performance penalty. Furthermore, the ability to specify method parameter types at runtime requires using C++ templates. "... Templates are a step beyond the current linker and environmental tools technology," causing problems for the C++ expert that are quite beyond the capabilities of the average application programmer
[15:29:47] <Nadir> .
[15:30:11] <Nadir> obviously this is a bit slanted
[15:30:32] <Nadir> anyway dynamic binding and introspection/reflection are similar
[15:30:45] <Colourless> indeed. I would imagine that the dynamic binding would be slower that virtual funtions :-)
[15:30:56] <Colourless> s/that/than/
[15:31:02] <SharpTooth> Nadir: Thanks. <bow>
[15:31:22] <Nadir> yes, of course, but you gain in readability flexibility and other ...bilities
[15:31:28] <Colourless> :-)
[15:32:38] <Colourless> i can imagine how it would be quite useful
[15:32:54] <SharpTooth> Colourless: It also varies, average case is worst, but in 'best case' it can be the same speed. <grin> But then again it's just the age old trade off of programmer time vs. cost of machines to run it.
[15:33:03] <Nadir> it's all about abstraction. It depends if you need/prefer it over performance
[15:33:43] <Nadir> Java is actually a hybrid where you also have "native" types, which are further optimized by the VM
[15:34:52] <SharpTooth> <nod> And you can also go one step further and optomise further as it's running as well if you've got a sufficiently intelligent VM. IIRC this is what Smalltalk used to do, what, 20 years ago?
[15:35:35] <Colourless> well, a really fast Java VM would be nice as well. Just out of interest, is Java Little Endian or Big Endian?
[15:36:07] <SharpTooth> Big IIRC.
[15:36:09] <Nadir> you don't need to know
[15:37:37] <Colourless> yeah I know you don't need to know because you dont have access to pointer. I was just wondering because Little endian would cause a huge performance penalty on x86. I would be surprised if it is big because isn't network byte ordering little?
[15:38:04] <Nadir> the recent Java VMs from Sun (with hotspot) and the ones from IBM are quite fast.
[15:38:24] <Colourless> so was Microsofts :-)
[15:38:44] <Nadir> they don't blindly JIT all of the code, but only code which is in loops, or is used frequently
[15:38:49] <SharpTooth> Colourless: MS's Java VM wasn't Java.
[15:38:52] <Nadir> Microsofts is EOL'd
[15:39:38] <Colourless> yeah, because sun kicked up a fuss over it and ms then said, fine we wont have it at all :-)
[15:40:08] <SharpTooth> On a MS/Java related amusing note: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/22840.html
[15:40:11] <Nadir> which is better for all of us. We don't want Microsoft polluting things
[15:40:34] <Colourless> but they are doing that anyway with C#
[15:40:52] <Nadir> Not really.
[15:41:19] <Colourless> you don't think so?
[15:41:36] <SB-X> is C# just for .Net?
[15:42:27] <Colourless> C# is Microsoft's alternative to Java
[15:42:37] <Colourless> it is meant for .Net
[15:43:00] <Nadir> no, because Java won't disappear. There are so many STRONG vendors doing A LOT of business with J2EE
[15:43:15] <Nadir> Java is great for server-side programming
[15:44:12] <Colourless> well, that's on non MS servers :-)
[15:44:15] <Nadir> I'm referring to products such as BEA WebLogic, Macromedia JRun, IBM WebSphere, IPlanet IAS, etc
[15:44:41] <Nadir> We see lots of implementations of BEA on W2K Server ...
[15:48:53] <Nadir> back to exult...
[15:49:02] <Colourless> ok
[15:50:40] <SB-X> what makes C++ especially good for Exult?
[15:53:09] <SharpTooth> Umm... all the coders on the team know it? <grin> My best guess.
[15:54:25] <Colourless> because it's easy to do the things we do than if Exult was done in Ansi C :-)
[15:55:10] <Colourless> really though, you'd have to ask Jeff that question because he started Exult on his own, before it even became a game
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[15:56:30] <wjp> hi
[15:56:37] <SharpTooth> Hello.
[15:57:17] <SB-X> hi
[15:57:18] <Colourless> hi
[16:07:25] <Nadir> SB-X: the answer to your question is - "Because Jeff chose C++"
[16:09:34] <SB-X> i knew that
[16:10:26] <SB-X> of course: Jeff is especially good for Exult, he chose C++ to code it in, therefore C++ is especially good for Exult :-)
[16:11:10] <Nadir> :)
[16:13:37] <SharpTooth> SB-X: I'm impressed, that sort of logic is actually useful! Normally it's just used to prove that all elephants are pink. <grin>
[16:16:04] <SB-X> thank you
[16:16:35] <Nadir> That could be a quote
[16:17:26] <Nadir> SharpTooth: your nick is not in the credits file. It just says "Patrick Burke"
[16:19:43] <SharpTooth> Nadir: <nod> I appear to be in bits and pieces everywhere. <grin> If it really bothered me I'd fix it, but I kind of like this 'excentricity', of being, yet not being, yet part being.
[16:20:06] * SharpTooth considers most people would be driven insane by this.
[16:21:13] <Colourless> you're a rabbit for crying out loud :-)
[16:21:57] <Colourless> with sharp teeth though
[16:22:03] * SharpTooth innocentwiggles.
[16:22:16] <Nadir> weren't they "pointy" as well ?
[16:22:47] <SharpTooth> Nadir: Technically yes. I've got a mpeg of that particular scene around here somewhere...
[16:24:47] <Nadir> http://www.montypython.net/cgi-bin/dl2/grail.cgi?rabbit.wav
[16:25:03] <Nadir> ...and...
[16:25:05] <Nadir> http://www.montypython.net/cgi-bin/dl2/grail.cgi?pointy.wav
[16:25:52] <SharpTooth> "Nasty, big, pointy teeth" is the particular phrasing.
[16:26:13] <Colourless> :-)
[16:26:37] <Nadir> Exactly
[16:26:40] <SharpTooth> "What behind the rabbit?" "It is the rabbit!"
[16:27:23] <Nadir> Rabbits also have a special meaning in SI... coincidence ???
[16:28:15] <SharpTooth> IIRC the start of the game is triggered by a bunny. That the special meaning? Or is there another? <grin>
[16:30:23] <Nadir> someone mis-spelled colourless on the forum ...
[16:31:04] <wjp> hmm, yes, toad'sMoke
[16:31:12] <Colourless> oh no!
[16:31:25] <wjp> the "something to try" thread
[16:34:12] * Nadir is waiting for colourless' retaliation
[16:34:45] <Colourless> i replied, nothing too special :-)
[16:35:31] <SharpTooth> Retaliation is at paw. And it's part pun. <grin>
[16:37:47] <Colourless> i could have said something like, "Colorless' cheat menu... what's that????? Oh, silly me, you missed out the letter 'u'. I know see that you mean Colourless' cheat menu. Please don't confuse me again in the future and make sure you spell MY name CORRECTLY! ;-)"
[16:39:01] <Nadir> you disappoint me...
[16:39:03] <SharpTooth> "Isn't the Colorless' cheat menu the one in black-and-white?"
[16:39:28] <Colourless> sorry :-)
[16:39:41] <Colourless> let me change the reply :-)
[16:40:01] <Colourless> actually the menu isn't actually black-and-white. it's got some colour and is actually yellow in SI
[16:42:03] <SharpTooth> <bow> Fair enough. I only use it to turn hack mover on and I don't remember actually using it in SI, so that's perhaps why I didn't notice. <grin>
[16:42:19] <Colourless> :-)
[16:42:20] <wjp> hack-mover is ctrl-h, btw
[16:42:57] <wjp> no, not that
[16:43:14] <wjp> alt-h, sorry :-)
[16:43:27] <Colourless> i actually find it easier to do F2, H, ESC rather than pressing multiple keys at the same time
[16:44:12] * wjp is kind of used to pressing multiple keys at once; I use emacs ;-)
[16:44:50] <SharpTooth> Colourless: <grin> As do I, actually it's more of "Press one combination of keys. Nope that didn't work. Press another. Well that didn't work either. How about this set. Yay!". I'm a vi user rather then an emacs user. <grin>
[16:45:11] <Colourless> well so am I really. Alt-H isn't the easiest combination... Ctrl-H is worse. :-)
[16:45:26] <Colourless> of course, that is doing it one handed
[16:49:41] <SharpTooth> On a completely unrelated note, the XBox has a green screen of death. Microsoft must have gotten sick of blue. <grin>
[16:49:59] <SB-X> anybody ever wonder why Iolo doesn't care how messy his house is?
[16:50:06] <Colourless> not true, and you know it
[16:50:13] <Colourless> ;-)
[16:50:25] <SB-X> i am tired of all the green XBox stuff
[16:50:36] <Colourless> well, Iolo doesn't actually seem to live there
[16:51:31] <SB-X> if you tell him to leave and tell him to go to Yew he does
[16:51:35] <SharpTooth> I've been ignoring all the XBox stuff, I just tripped over an image of a GSOD on a webpage. I just though it was a bit weird.
[16:51:50] <Nadir> It is a bit more stylish than the BSOD
[16:51:55] <Colourless> yeah, it's from a DevKit though
[16:52:01] <SB-X> he walks around and sits down without a care for the garbage :)
[16:52:16] <SB-X> SharpTooth: heh me too
[16:52:58] <Nadir> The XDK !
[16:53:05] <Nadir> Problem is Oracle has an XDK as well...
[16:53:26] <Colourless> :-)
[16:53:26] <SB-X> ...
[16:56:10] <Nadir> search on google for xdk...
[16:56:28] <Colourless> why?
[16:56:43] <Colourless> ah
[16:57:01] <Nadir> well, xdk is either "Oracle XML Development Kit" or "Microsoft XBox Development Kit".
[16:57:23] <Nadir> Has Larry Ellison said anything about it ? ;)
[16:58:04] <Colourless> well, he is obviouslt foolish to have not trademarked it :-)
[17:05:41] <Nadir> :)
[17:08:07] <Nadir> gotta go. bye !
[17:08:16] <SharpTooth> Bye.
[17:08:31] <wjp> bye
[17:09:03] <Colourless> bye
[17:09:33] <SharpTooth> Erk. I need to disappear as well. <bow> Good night.
[17:09:44] <Colourless> cya
[17:10:44] <SB-X> bye whoever leaving
[17:12:22] <-- Nadir has left IRC ("Pleasant dreams, Avatar... hehehehehe")
[17:15:10] * wjp just compiled a new kernel.
[17:15:18] <wjp> I'll (hopefully) be back after a quick reboot :-)
[17:15:23] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[17:15:53] <Colourless> sigh
[17:16:11] <SB-X> bye
[17:16:11] <SB-X> oh he's gone
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[17:18:45] <SB-X> wb wjp
[17:18:48] <wjp> thx
[17:18:58] <wjp> I wonder if this new VM is as good as it's supposed to be :-)
[17:19:16] <Colourless> wb
[17:19:59] <wjp> my old kernel (2.4.7) had occasional 2-second freezes while it was swapping heavily (for no apparent reason)
[17:23:48] <Colourless> i would imagine though if you are getting heavy swapping, things would be generally slow regardless
[17:24:11] <wjp> hmm, maybe that sentence was a bit unclear. I meant the swapping was for no apparent reason
[17:24:42] <Colourless> ah ok :-)
[17:26:47] <Colourless> what was your memory usage like at the time
[17:27:40] <wjp> well, it happened kind of regularly
[17:28:30] <wjp> swap is generally partly used, but I tend to be using only one or two programs actively
[17:28:33] <Colourless> so, how long does it take to compile the kernel
[17:29:00] <wjp> dunno, I started it on another workspace and checked after 20 minutes
[17:29:23] <wjp> (I guess, I wasn't keeping track of the time)
[17:29:36] <SB-X> 20 minutes? that rocks
[17:29:56] <wjp> well, probably less
[17:30:03] <SB-X> how long does it take you to compile Exult+Studio+Tools?
[17:30:03] <Colourless> what language is it written in? c?
[17:30:08] <wjp> yeah, c
[17:30:21] <wjp> exult? hmm, I guess about 15 mins
[17:30:32] <SB-X> it takes me an hour
[17:30:54] <Colourless> so, are we going to attempt to get exult compiling to become a system benchmark? :-)
[17:31:02] <SB-X> 45min-1 hour
[17:31:03] <SB-X> hehe
[17:31:04] <wjp> heh :-)
[17:32:10] <Colourless> and MSVC and Metroworks Code Warrior are strictly not allowed, because they have percompiled headers and well, lets just say it wouldn't be pretty for gcc :-)
[17:33:12] <wjp> lol
[17:33:33] <wjp> there's a PCH patch available for gcc 3, IIRC
[17:33:56] <wjp> should be 'officially' merged in gcc 3.1, I think
[17:34:31] <Colourless> so I hear. Someone going to try it with exult?
[17:35:07] <wjp> hmm, don't really feel like it. Compiling gcc tends to be very time consuming
[17:35:22] <wjp> I could of course just start a gcc compile here while I'm at the univ or something
[17:48:27] <wjp> kernel compile takes about 14 minutes for me, btw. (with a medium feature set, I guess)
[17:49:49] <wjp> Colourless: seen the reply to your reply? :-)
[17:50:10] <Colourless> can't say I have
[17:52:40] <Colourless> ooog
[17:52:47] <Colourless> now I'm mad :-)
[17:53:19] <wjp> isn't Tenchi german?
[17:53:46] <wjp> shouldn't he speak proper english then?
[17:53:56] <Colourless> you'd think so
[18:00:52] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[18:07:04] <Colourless> replied
[18:08:28] <SB-X> what did you say?
[18:09:44] <Colourless> you can check it out yourself. it's in our forum
[18:11:15] <SB-X> i had already seen the original, i'll check in a bit :-)
[18:13:58] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:14:12] <wjp> nice reply :-)
[18:15:13] <Colourless> you know, i find myself doing this at every forum :-)
[18:15:29] <SB-X> :-)
[18:16:56] <Colourless> of course, it's more fun when your a moderator.
[18:17:50] <wjp> you're not abusing your power, are you? ;-)
[18:18:36] <Colourless> no, not yet anyway ;-)
[19:00:00] <-- SB-X has left IRC (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
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[19:47:32] <Colourless> time to go
[19:47:42] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("gone")
[19:48:24] <SB-X> :-(
[20:47:42] <SB-X> im going to sleep soon see you Exult guys later :-)
[20:47:45] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("...")
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[22:55:25] <Sslaxx> Hello?
[22:55:27] <wjp> hi
[22:55:49] <Sslaxx> Hi, WJP!
[22:55:52] <Sslaxx> How goes, all?
[22:56:05] <wjp> not bad
[22:56:20] * Sslaxx gives folk Strawberries.
[22:56:31] <matto|wookin> Sslaxx!!!
[22:56:34] <wjp> :-)
[22:56:39] <matto|wookin> :)
[22:57:17] <Sslaxx> How goes, Matt?
[22:57:28] <matto|wookin> good Sslaxx
[22:59:05] * Sslaxx is glad to hear it.
[22:59:50] <matto|wookin> oh and thx for the strawberries
[23:01:57] * Sslaxx grins.
[23:02:03] <Sslaxx> Busy?
[23:04:34] * Sslaxx ohmigods at a game he's found.
[23:08:29] <wjp> ?
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