#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Apr 2002 (GMT)

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[00:12:29] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz....")
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[06:12:34] <Darke> Hi.
[06:13:21] <flurotube> heya darke :)
[06:13:23] <flurotube> wassup?
[06:15:20] <Darke> The sky? <grin> Nothing much.
[06:15:46] <flurotube> heh
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[06:47:08] <sb-x> Hi.
[06:47:41] <Darke> Hi.
[06:48:01] <sb-x> id software is old
[06:48:24] <sb-x> I posted that in reply to you.in the Exult forum.
[06:48:41] <sb-x> but they don't make rpgs
[06:49:49] <Darke> Thanks, I'd forgotten them. There's also Apogee/3drealms I remember now.
[06:51:06] <Darke> Microprose is dead, as is Mythos, and Simtex.
[06:51:15] <sb-x> Ooh yeah...
[06:51:21] <sb-x> What happened to Microprose?
[06:51:46] <Darke> Bought by a bigger company and gutted, IIRC.
[06:52:33] <Darke> By Hasbro, the TM's now owned by Infograms, I think. BICBW.
[06:54:37] <sb-x> Hey, do the guys that ate up the other guys count? :) EA is obviously there still.
[06:54:42] <Darke> SSI got borged recently. I think that's most of the companies of games I used to play.
[06:55:00] <sb-x> I can't remember the companies who made the games I've played.
[06:55:03] * Darke wouldn't really count EA as the 'original' anymore. <grin>
[06:55:06] <sb-x> I used to play a lot of console games.
[06:55:31] <sb-x> hehe
[06:55:43] <sb-x> They embraced and extended Origin.
[06:55:46] <sb-x> :P
[06:56:04] <Darke> Yeah, the MS of the game publishers. <grin> 3DO too.
[06:56:43] <sb-x> MS is the MS of game publishers. :|
[06:58:03] <Darke> AFAICT, MS has been reasonably 'nice' to the companies it publishes their games under. <grin>
[06:58:58] <sb-x> Yes... Yes... besides the fact that they try to make it seem that every game they publish is a new in-house MS innovation. :)
[06:59:27] <Darke> But they do that with everything they publish or acquire, so it's 'expected' of them. <grin>
[06:59:37] <sb-x> "embrace"
[06:59:41] <Darke> They can't even innovate _that_! <grin>
[06:59:51] * sb-x laughs.
[06:59:54] * sb-x starts to mention Maxis, but then remembers they are owned by EA.
[07:00:40] <Darke> I'd say Maxis are still one of the 'original' companies. NWC is owned by 3DO, and until recently the 3DO suits had played 'hands off' with it.
[07:02:17] <sb-x> hmm
[07:02:26] <sb-x> What is Atari doing these days? :D
[07:03:04] <Darke> Owned by Infogramms, no idea as to their 'state', but I would guess the original team no-longer exists.
[07:03:41] * Darke seems to remember Atari being 'dead' for a few years until they revived it's brand. BIBCW.
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[07:03:58] <wjp> hi
[07:04:02] <Darke> Hi.
[07:04:03] <sb-x> Hi.
[07:04:38] * sb-x wonders how long will it be now until AOLTimeWarner buys out the bigger game companies.
[07:04:43] <Darke> Welcome to our discussion of the life and death of game production houses. #exult, always on topic, all the time. <grin>
[07:04:52] <wjp> :-)
[07:05:17] <sb-x> It is on topic. Hasn't EA decided to start developing Exult????
[07:05:19] <Darke> Not sure. Apparently 3DO is on shaky financial ground at the moment.
[07:07:17] * sb-x nods.
[07:07:32] <sb-x> some of their games are getting really indecent promotion
[07:07:37] <sb-x> i guess so they can save money
[07:08:25] <sb-x> indecent=very little if any
[07:09:09] * Darke does wonder sometimes why EA doesn't do something like: "Here's a million. Add a opengl 3d front end to exult, and we'll provide the artists to create textures and models for everyone and everything." *poof* A new 'remake' of a classic game (which is popular at the moment) they can sell for full price. <shrug>
[07:10:15] <Darke> I mean, it would, of course, entail us seperating the 'rendering' part of it, from the GPLed 'back end'. But it's doable I think.
[07:13:16] <sb-x> Fire an email off saying you have some "Very promising development" progressing and tell them to look in the /opengl directory. :D
[07:15:33] * Darke snickers.
[07:17:57] <sb-x> On a related note, can anyone tell me what the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey means?
[07:26:04] * Darke hasn't watched it, nor read the book.
[07:29:15] <sb-x> :)
[07:29:34] * sb-x saw it a week ago. It may have no real meaning. Much like the end of Ultima 8.
[07:31:29] <Darke> wjp: In relation to u8 usecode, do you have any idea what the data is between the end of the functions, and what's called 'maxOffset' in disasm.cc?
[07:34:56] <Darke> wjp: It seems to be 128 bytes in each case. Mostly null, but some have data. I don't _think_ I'm reading the next class header and such, because it doesn't look like it, BICBW.
[07:44:30] * sb-x just read a paragraph on a website about Star Trek: TNG, that used the terms "black, hand-sized deviceamajig" and "sensormajig".
[07:47:39] * Darke umms... errs... and hmms...
[07:50:06] <wjp> Darke: there's data there?
[07:50:24] <Darke> Yep. Want me to cut&paste some in here? It's a bit spammy.
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[07:50:53] * wjp|work has to go replace a HD first; brb
[07:51:02] * Darke guessed there was due to a note in the u8usecode.txt file.
[07:51:06] <Darke> No problem.
[07:51:13] <wjp|work> feel free to post it in the meantime, though :-)
[07:51:34] <Darke> <grin> It's quick to post. I'll wait until you return.
[08:06:13] <Darke> disasm.cc is also subtracting 0x0C from maxOffset when loading, however there's at least another 0x0C of null data after all the functions. Removing it breaks disasm.cc though.
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[08:11:25] <Darke> Hi.
[08:13:54] <sb-x> Hi.
[08:15:01] <Kirben> Hi
[08:15:51] <Darke> wjp|work: False alarm. I was misreading one class. All the classes do seem to be pushed together with no space between them.
[08:19:48] * Darke had forgotten to account for the 128 bytes taken up by the event id pointer table.
[08:24:51] * sb-x gives Darke a carrot.
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[08:38:23] <Colourless> hi
[08:38:41] <sb-x> Hi.
[08:38:45] <Darke> Hi.
[08:38:50] * Darke carrotnibbles.
[08:40:07] <Colourless> enjoy my rather large pentagram commit :-)
[08:40:32] <wjp|work> ooh, scalers :-)
[08:41:06] <Colourless> aye
[08:42:28] <Colourless> the scalers work with everything that is based on the Application class... which is like everything :-)
[08:47:12] * Darke earperks. Nice!
[08:48:41] <Colourless> i've already tested that robustness of the engine... much like exult stupid scale factors and resolutions can be used and work
[08:48:59] <Darke> For reference ucfiddle takes up 3MB of memory if it loads up all the usecode in raw mode.
[08:49:36] <Colourless> one thing i didn't mention in the commit message is I changed the way movment works in display. It now works as would be expected in the game
[08:49:53] * Darke snickers and figures it'll be much easier to generate screen shots of each map in pentagram, rather then in exult.
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[09:01:48] <wjp|work> hi
[09:01:52] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[09:01:56] <Dominus> hi
[09:01:58] <Darke> Hi.
[09:04:55] <Dominus> Kirben: any idea, why my studio compile fails or better is it fixable?
[09:05:27] <Dominus> yesterdays log 13:50
[09:06:25] <sb-x> Hi Dominus.
[09:07:14] <Kirben> trying a console compile now
[09:11:21] <Kirben> odd no problems here
[09:11:38] <Dominus> hm...
[09:11:55] <Dominus> any other lib besides freetype that has changed?
[09:12:30] <Kirben> Dominus: can you paste your link line of exult studio ?
[09:12:39] <Kirben> no others libs required
[09:13:11] <Dominus> link line? (me is showing his ignorance again)
[09:13:23] <sb-x> Is there a way to decompress a broken zip archive, without the index?
[09:13:34] <Kirben> The g++ exult_studio.exp -o... line
[09:13:52] <Dominus> ok, one moment
[09:14:14] <Darke> sb-x: Not that I know of.
[09:14:25] <wjp|work> there are some zip repair tools, but I'm not sure if it can repair that
[09:15:27] <sb-x> What if I know it has only one file?
[09:16:04] <wjp|work> dunno :-)
[09:16:25] <wjp|work> I'd say make a backup copy of the .zip and try it :-)
[09:16:30] <Dominus> Kirben, problem solved. I had tried the experimental mingw-runtime-2.0-20020412 and that was what failed for Studio (but not for Exult or Pentagram)
[09:17:13] <sb-x> thanks
[09:17:15] <wjp|work> LOL @ top /. story
[09:17:23] * sb-x should probably just wait for it to download though.
[09:17:23] <Kirben> I using mingw-runtime 1.3 myself
[09:17:34] <wjp|work> "patent granted on sideways swinging"
[09:17:46] <Kirben> mingw-runtime 2.0 beta should not be required and sounds risky
[09:18:10] <Dominus> Kirben: yeah, that's what I just found out :-)
[09:22:27] * sb-x got part of the zip file's contents with 'funzip'.
[09:24:01] <sb-x> okay this mpeg is really corrupted :>
[09:31:07] * Darke thinks that patent must have been filed as a joke. <grin>
[09:31:24] * Dominus thinks that too
[09:32:09] <Dominus> hm, it seems that Exult has or had a problem creating the gamedat folder on Win9x... (accrding to the forum)
[09:32:47] * Darke notices that someone wants Dominus to create a 'usecode faq'. <grin>
[09:33:14] <Dominus> I read that and I'm fairly certain that I won't do that
[09:34:13] <Dominus> though I started somewhat on the Studio docs but I would certainly need help from experienced uusecode users like Darke, wjp|work or Jeff
[09:43:50] * Darke is quite happy to help, he has more problems finding questions, rather then answers. <grin>
[09:44:38] <Dominus> :-)
[09:44:53] <Dominus> hm, the scalers in pentagram really don't seem to do much
[09:45:05] * Darke curses a certain os, with a certain case-insensitive file system.
[09:47:39] <Darke> The scalaers are nice in the glob/shape/animation displayers.
[09:48:41] <Dominus> I actually take it back. running with off and one iayou actually see the difference
[09:50:16] * Darke still can't get ./display to work. The crash still seems to be in fseek. <sigh>
[09:51:15] <Dominus> and since when can you press "b" to change the background? nice
[09:57:32] <Dominus> Hm, U8 seems to have a little too "hard" edges in some shapes
[10:02:18] * Darke thinks the Avatar is a bit blocky, but it really doesn't look too bad.
[10:04:17] <Darke> And the walls seem to size 'nicely', although some of the objects have a thick black line around them that really stands out.
[10:04:32] <Dominus> that's what I meant
[10:04:53] <Kirben> Ultima 8 looks so good now and with full screen too.
[10:05:20] <Kirben> Any progress on gameplay ?
[10:05:22] <Dominus> yeah it does and contrary to what I first said it looks really good with scalers
[10:09:58] <Dominus> where is the + and - key on the us keyboard (I hate sdl's unicode support and programmers that use +/- )
[10:10:26] <Dominus> actually not the programers
[10:11:22] <Kirben> next to 0 key (shifted)
[10:11:33] <wjp|work> and they're on the numpad
[10:12:11] <Dominus> yeah but if someone assignes different commands to normal +/- and keypad +/- ?
[10:12:26] <Dominus> like with display of Pentagram
[10:12:41] <Dominus> (I'm updating the readme of the viewers a little atm)
[10:15:30] <Dominus> wjp|work: how should I call animdisp? Animation viewer? and what is the syntax or just say navigate with arow/pguppgdown?
[10:15:33] <Kirben> hmm what does alt-x do ? noticed lights came on
[10:16:14] <Dominus> Kirben: it's actually just x and means "no-xforms" (whatever that means)
[10:19:23] <Kirben> ok
[10:21:40] <sb-x> does this have bounding box view?
[10:22:01] <sb-x> where you see the 3dish outlines of the objects' boundaries
[10:22:08] <Dominus> sb-x: only the shape viewer
[10:22:45] <Dominus> s key
[10:22:51] <sb-x> ok
[10:40:57] <Dominus> updated readme in /viewer of Pentagram
[10:54:43] <Kirben> hmm is Ultima 1-9 worth $89.95 AUS ?
[10:55:15] <Dominus> how much is the $ AUS in relation to US $?
[10:55:27] <Kirben> An online shop still has Ultima 9 Dragon Edition left but never goes down no matter how long I wait.
[10:55:34] * Darke paid that much for it.
[10:55:35] <Kirben> $us would be half
[10:56:28] <Dominus> hm, then I don't think it's worth it. I would really first try Ebay
[10:56:45] <Dominus> or better even my offer for the UC still stands
[10:56:52] <Dominus> free of costs :-)
[10:57:49] <Kirben> ebay seems too high priced juding by recent ultima news groups threads.
[10:58:06] <Kirben> and I don't want you to have to pay a high postage.
[10:58:13] <Dominus> and I'm very positive that you can get U9 a lot cheaper somewhere (I saw some boxes on my last visit to the us in february)
[10:58:21] <Dominus> no australian ebay?
[10:59:08] <Dominus> judging from those newsgroup posts I'd say the us-ebay is insane (the bidders that is)
[10:59:12] <Kirben> there is
[11:00:31] <Kirben> But don't know what quality will be like with those types of places.
[11:01:05] <Kirben> Just bought a used game from shops by mail and CDs are very good quality.
[11:01:18] <Kirben> are=aren't
[11:03:37] <Dominus> the problem with the DE is that the docs that came with it for the UC are very poor
[11:04:20] <Kirben> aren't they all on CD ? or you mean the Ultima 9 manuals ?
[11:05:03] <Dominus> the original UC had all kinds of maps and other manual stuff printed out along with the passowrds. the uc that comes with the DE only has the manuals on CD and those are only revamped versions of the originals
[11:05:28] <Kirben> I prefer acrobat files myself, shame ultima 7 aren't color though.
[11:05:32] <Dominus> you don't really need those printed out ones but they are sure nice
[11:05:49] <Dominus> the UC comes with nice help files in colour
[11:08:44] <Kirben> Is that just for troubleshooting or full docs too ?
[11:09:30] <Dominus> the full manual, apparently scanned in again and put into a helpfile but let me check, one moment
[11:11:43] <sb-x> Thou shalt donate half thy income to charity, or thou shalt have no income.
[11:11:47] <-- sb-x has left IRC ("ZzzzZZZZzzzz....")
[11:14:35] <Dominus> okay, it's always the full docs that came with the game in hlp, doc and txt format
[11:15:25] <Dominus> not much colours used beside the cover scane and the maps (but then in the original manuals there wasn't much colour anyway)
[11:16:11] <Kirben> I'm surprised EA went to all that trouble.
[11:16:56] <Dominus> yeah and besides that you got the paper manuals with the maps of all the games (b/w)
[11:18:17] <Dominus> and a 48 pages manual with a lot of help on configrung and installing as well as keyboard commands, copy protection answers, spell descriptions and so on
[11:18:34] <Dominus> those two manauls are not with the UC that comes with the DE
[11:21:04] <Dominus> My special UC is just crapping out and I giuess needs to be burnt again (I put the other Ultima Games I have on it as well (MD, SE, UW1+2, the C64-roms)).
[11:21:46] <Darke> Hmm... I wonder if since we already need an additional 'installation' step of decoding the sound, if it'd be worth adding another step at installation of resizing the graphics to say twice or four times their original size (as suggested by a forum poster that we do with exult), this way it'd be easy for others to come along and create high resolution graphics to replace the ones in the game.
[11:23:06] <Dominus> Darke: I think that would be question for Colourless as he seems to be planning something in regard to his opengl stuff
[11:24:26] * Darke was thinking so too. Since he remembers Colourless also mentioned that the opengl stuff would look better at a higher resolution, but the 2d tiles would look blocky.
[11:28:47] <Darke> In the shape viewer, with shape 578, some of the latter frames (around 50+) look like they're having palette problems.
[11:29:30] <Darke> It could just be that they were never used, so they weren't properly coloured, but I'd thought I'd best note it just in case. <grin>
[11:30:12] <Dominus> yeah, you are right
[11:30:34] * wjp|work doesn't have them here, but are you sure they're not translucent colours or something?
[11:30:57] <Dominus> if that shows as "greenish" then it is
[11:31:06] <Darke> 583 too. Anything but the 0th frame has large amounts of white.
[11:31:45] <wjp|work> the translucent colours are somewhere early in the palette
[11:31:55] <wjp|work> is the palette still shown at the top?
[11:31:58] <Darke> It's an explosion going from red/black in a torus, with a 'ring' of pure white around it, then an outer and inner ring of green.
[11:32:01] <Darke> Yep.
[11:32:17] <wjp|work> oh, that one. I think that's translucency, yes
[11:33:04] <Darke> Cool. So 583 will also likely be translucency, since it looks like a 'stone' rising off the floor.
[11:37:13] <Darke> Ooooh. 685 is _very_ pretty.
[11:37:26] * Darke thinks there's lots of nice shapes in u8.
[11:39:05] <Dominus> I find 666 somewhat disturbant
[11:39:47] <Dominus> and 667 as well (if you "animate it") :-)
[11:40:21] * Darke giggles and looks _completely_ innocent. He has absolutely no idea as to what you're talking about.
[11:41:45] <Darke> Eww... I didn't know they had plastic imitation pot plants in Pagan. (753)
[11:42:36] <Dominus> frame 4 of that is really GREEN
[11:43:41] <Darke> Yeah. I first cringed at frame 1 though. Almost every other shape I've seen has been coloured nice and 'realistically', except for these. <grin>
[11:44:50] <Dominus> the best thing about the pentagram viewers is that you see all the exceptional art that was used in u8 (except for a few ones that are odd)
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[11:46:21] <Darke> And the worst thing is all the really, really bad art, that would just not be noticed in a mix of all the good art in the real game, _really_ stands out. <grin>
[11:46:33] <Dominus> he he
[11:47:23] <Darke> Things like the nice, repetitive checkered floor tiles that my first thought was "Hey, even _I_ can draw that!". <grin>
[11:48:15] <Darke> Hmm... the blue 'magical glowie lines' around the weapons also stand out, just like the black lines in the shapes.
[11:49:22] <Dominus> the black lines are just ugly
[11:51:34] <Darke> The artists must really have had fun in u7/u8, just drawing all the little things that don't get drawn in 'normal' games. Like the little desk picture frames (831), the dozen different piles of cloth, all the little utensils and things (829 among others). Rather then the standard weapons/armour/walls.
[11:52:13] * Dominus wonders what Darke's definition of fun is
[11:53:15] <Darke> Ok, 847 really looks like there's a problem with the palette. It's a teleport pad, but there's a mixture of blue/pink/yellow/red/white below it, which doesn't really look right. BICBW.
[11:54:31] * Darke 's definition of fun is coding, and practicing what little l33t dr4w1ngz sk1llz he has when he gets the chance. <grin>
[11:55:43] <Darke> Hmm... looks like I crashed shpdisp, on shape 851.
[11:56:11] <wjp|work> you're probably just past the end of file
[11:56:15] <wjp|work> 851 is the last one, IIRC
[11:56:47] <Darke> You hit 851 and it freezes, you can't scroll back, nor can you look at any of the frames of it, except the first.
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[11:57:49] <Colourless> hi
[11:57:53] <Darke> Hi.
[11:57:54] <wjp|work> hi
[11:58:03] <Dominus> welcome, oh exulted one
[11:59:54] * Darke wonders if they'll be any complaints if he changes 'display' to either 'mapview' or 'mapdisp', he's getting sick of colliding with 'display' from ImageMagick, and it'd be nice for the name to be consistant with what it does. <grin> The other option is to change it to 'pentagram'...
[12:00:13] <Colourless> no, display is not pentagram
[12:00:48] <Colourless> dominus, the tools no longer want the files in the current dir... they want them in the normal subdirs that u8 uses
[12:01:24] <Dominus> ah, oversight in the readme
[12:02:00] <Dominus> I knew that but was so focused on finding all the key commands that I totally overlooked that
[12:02:14] <Colourless> there are config setting though that can override that though
[12:07:54] <wjp|work> Darke: colliding? pentagram's display = ./display; im's display = display
[12:09:35] <Darke> wjp|work: Yeah, I have this annoying tendancy to miss the './' bit. <grin>
[12:09:45] <Colourless> darke: you mentioned prescaling in the logs.... i was actually planning on doing that at run time for opengl
[12:10:13] <Dominus> the viewers could use a bit better error handling if they don't find themselves in the u8 directory structure
[12:12:07] <Darke> (prescaling) I was thinking that it'd be good to be able to prescale at installation, since we already need to have an installer (or tell people) to decompress the sounds, why not do that once at installation? Is there any advantage to doing it at runtime?
[12:12:37] <Colourless> well, it would just save diskspace is what i was thinking
[12:13:00] <Colourless> also, it would allow people to pick and choose when in the game what algorithm to scale with
[12:15:23] <Dominus> Colourless: can you choose from all the same scalers that are used with Exult?
[12:15:46] <Darke> But then you've got the extra slowdown either ingame, or at level loading. You've also got the overhead of the scaling algorythm, theoretically people without fast enough processors could use 2xSAI with prescaling, whereas without they may not be able to.
[12:15:48] <Colourless> yep
[12:15:57] <Colourless> (that was to Dominus)
[12:16:02] * Darke nods.
[12:16:36] <Colourless> well, what I can just do is enable both :-)
[12:17:33] <Darke> So if you've already got a prescaled set of textures of the appropriate size, you set the scaling to x1/point and it renders them 'as is'?
[12:17:37] <Colourless> for people who want to they can to run time prescaling, however if people want to they could do the scalling on install
[12:18:08] <Darke> If you don't you set x2/SaI (or whatever) and it's scaled on loading and at runtime.
[12:18:43] * Darke likes that idea. <grin>
[12:18:47] <Colourless> well we can't draw 32bit in software
[12:19:09] <Colourless> in OpenGL it will probably just have an option use scaled shapes or something
[12:19:42] <Colourless> i was going to have quite a few different settings for opengl
[12:19:57] <Colourless> including arbitrary x and y scaling
[12:20:47] <Colourless> that really just means running in any res you want, and then setting an effective screen size of say 320x200
[12:21:21] * Darke nods.
[12:21:55] <Colourless> the prescaled shapes would only be used if the x and y dims are both being scaled by more than 2
[12:23:56] <Darke> How would the system handle, say someone taking an X.Y floor tile and making a high resolution 3X.3Y size floor tile, and replacing it?
[12:24:18] <Colourless> OpenGL itself wouldn't care
[12:24:31] <Darke> Neat.
[12:24:48] <Dominus> Colourless: check out the readme again
[12:25:34] <Colourless> texture coords are normalized (0 to 1) and are resolution independant
[12:26:47] * Darke nods.
[12:30:32] <Colourless> Dominus: good
[12:31:56] <Dominus> I mainly did this as I forgot all the keybaord commands that are mentioned in the changelog
[12:32:06] <Dominus> Uhm, I missed the b-key
[12:32:34] <Colourless> :-)
[12:32:56] <Colourless> you missed shpdisp's p key.... but it doesn't work too well :-)
[12:33:14] <Colourless> it's what animdisp was created from :-)
[12:33:29] <Dominus> does the same as the animdisp key, right?
[12:33:35] <Colourless> yeah it does
[12:33:44] <Dominus> or should at least :-)
[12:34:24] <Colourless> Darke: about renaming display, i think that mapdisp would be a good name that is consitant with the other tools
[12:35:16] <Dominus> Colourless: also about animdisp, I wrote:
[12:35:18] <Dominus> animdisp <shapenum>
[12:35:25] <Dominus> (you can leave out shapenum it may even be better to leave it out)
[12:35:34] <Dominus> good or bad?
[12:36:14] <Darke> Colourless: (display) Thanks. I'll change that next commit. It is certainly more consistant. <grin>
[12:36:46] <Colourless> dominus: telling people to give a shapenum is possibly asking for problems. most shapes don't have anims
[12:37:04] <Dominus> okay, will leave it out
[12:48:45] <wjp|work> there's only a few of them, so you can easily reach them all by simply 'scrolling'
[12:53:37] <Darke> Does animdisp only display 'creature' animations? Or (presumably) are all the 'object' animations (chests, doors, etc) handled by usecode?
[12:53:50] <Colourless> those are usecode afaik
[12:53:58] * wjp|work posts a rather sarcastic reply to "U7run for WinXP"
[12:55:55] <Dominus> I'm rather stumped by the latest reply to the pocket-pc thing
[12:57:38] * Darke just read that, "The one about where you 'put something on and it shows it on your character on the screen'? I think he's talking about how if you put a shield into your Avatar's hand, it shows on the paperdoll, but it doesn't show on your character icon you move around."
[12:58:13] <Dominus> I understood the post at least but I'm still puzzled if it
[12:58:18] <Dominus> is worth a reply
[12:58:47] * Darke thinks silence is the best reply for the moment.
[12:59:37] <Darke> wjp|work: Nice sarcastic reply. <grin>
[12:59:45] <wjp|work> I thought so :-)
[13:00:25] * wjp|work doesn't really like skutarth's attitude
[13:00:40] <Darke> wjp|work: What's the bet he'll completely miss the sarcasm, if he does actually acknowledge the reply? <grin>
[13:00:45] <Dominus> me neither, I posted that he can disable all our features
[13:00:50] * Darke doesn't like his attitude either.
[13:01:50] <Colourless> hmm... such individuals are generally described as immature
[13:03:01] <wjp|work> what's a "GM bar"?
[13:03:25] <Dominus> Game Master - has nothing to do with U7
[13:03:41] <wjp|work> yeah, but what's the bar part?
[13:04:27] <Dominus> well either a pub or whatever the bar is in UO. Have no exact idea either
[13:04:30] <Dominus> :-)
[13:05:03] <Dominus> Skutarth is beginning to annoy me with only a couple of posts
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[13:06:22] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[13:06:22] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Tue Apr 2 07:38:10 2002
[13:06:32] <Dominus> ?pentagram
[13:06:53] <Colourless> ?version
[13:06:53] <exultbot> The latest official version of Exult is: 0.98rc1
[13:07:00] <Colourless> better
[13:07:25] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[13:07:25] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[13:07:25] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Tue Apr 2 07:38:10 2002
[13:07:32] <Dominus> ?pentagram
[13:07:32] <exultbot> I know absolutely nothing about that. Really.
[13:07:41] <Dominus> that's better
[13:07:43] <Dominus> :-)
[13:11:39] * Darke suspects this Skutarth creature is used to being on l33t b0ardz where you have to trash talk and act arrogant to be with the 'in' crowd.
[13:19:52] <Dominus> Damn, I'm really annoyed right now. I'm waiting for a parcel to get delivered all day now. Told that delivery company that I'll be at home from around 10 to early afternoon. They have 20 more minutes to show up.
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[13:24:09] <artaxerxes> hi
[13:24:14] <Dominus> hi
[13:24:25] <artaxerxes> nice documentation on ES, Dominus
[13:24:26] <Colourless> hi
[13:24:32] <artaxerxes> hi Colourless
[13:24:55] <artaxerxes> I think I've found sth interesting in the uc function #011C
[13:25:05] <Dominus> artaxerxes: thanks, but it is in no way complete and I need to write tons of more text for it
[13:25:13] <-- Darke has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[13:25:16] <artaxerxes> Dominus: nice start
[13:26:00] <artaxerxes> and thx you guys for the mention of Si-french on your news page... our counter hit the roof!
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[13:26:56] <artaxerxes> In 011C, L001B, you'll notice what seems to be a missing precompiler work from the origin SI team
[13:27:00] <Darke> Hi artaxerxes.
[13:27:05] <artaxerxes> Hi Darke
[13:27:28] <artaxerxes> @^<Avatar>, I believe the important part of the word sundial'
[13:27:28] <artaxerxes> db ' is `sun'.@
[13:28:44] <artaxerxes> Probably the ^<Avatar> is replaced by the code to show the name of the avatar by the precompiler. Maybe sth to think of when making a usecode compiler.
[13:30:00] <Colourless> perhaps... but what characters does the font have got for ^, < and >
[13:30:33] <artaxerxes> let me look.
[13:30:34] <Darke> Possible, but I wonder why it wouldn't have been replaced. Perhaps ^ is a typo and it should have been &? <grin> Since we know from the debugging infor in the SI spanish that & references a function that returns a value (IIRC).
[13:31:07] <artaxerxes> and they are beside each other on a US keyboard
[13:31:21] * Darke nods. That's how he made the connection.
[13:31:41] <artaxerxes> The SI spanish ??? What is that ?
[13:32:21] <artaxerxes> I thought SI was only released in English
[13:32:36] <Colourless> so did we... until we found out about si spanish
[13:32:52] <wjp|work> artaxerxes: hi, and you're welcome :-) (for the link)
[13:32:59] * Dominus even mentions it somewhere in the FAQ
[13:33:07] <artaxerxes> hi wjp
[13:33:20] <Darke> It has debugging opcodes inserted all the way through it. You can tell what opcodes were 'clumped' together to form a statement from them.
[13:33:23] <artaxerxes> oups.... I thought I read the FAQ at least 5 times....
[13:33:24] <Colourless> si spanish doesn't seem to be an offical support
[13:33:40] <Colourless> s/support/port/
[13:33:58] <wjp|work> no, compiling debugging-mode usecode doesn't sound too official
[13:34:06] <artaxerxes> :)
[13:34:52] <artaxerxes> and btw there is an Italian version of BG on its way. I've been contacted by a guy and gave him information he needed to translate.
[13:35:20] <Darke> wjp|work: If they can release a copy of pagan with all the debugging info in it and call it 'official', I'm sure they can release a copy of SI, with debugging information in the usecode. <grin>
[13:35:24] <artaxerxes> He's done text.flx and I think he applied our fonts.vga patch.
[13:35:48] <wjp|work> Darke: true :-)
[13:36:03] * Dominus just wants to notify that he just received his parcel
[13:36:15] <artaxerxes> aren't you glad they relesed a version of U8 with debugging info though? Makes it easier to understand.. :)
[13:36:59] <Colourless> well, we are only really using it for 1 thing... and we could have worked it out anyway fairly easily without them
[13:37:12] <Darke> artaxerxes: The problem is they forgot to release it with the debugging information in the usecode too. <grin>
[13:40:19] <artaxerxes> how's pentagram going, btw ?
[13:40:55] <Colourless> improving on a daily basis
[13:41:00] <Darke> ?pentagram
[13:41:00] <exultbot> I know absolutely nothing about that. Really.
[13:41:42] <artaxerxes> what'd be the status, you'd say ?
[13:41:52] <Colourless> unfinished
[13:41:55] <Colourless> :-)
[13:42:01] <Colourless> unplayable
[13:42:41] <Colourless> still a long way to go yet
[13:43:00] <artaxerxes> You guys are aware there are foreign version of U8 out there.. are you going to code so that those version are supported ?
[13:43:29] <Dominus> should be the same as with Exult, I guess
[13:43:51] <Dominus> minor glitches
[13:43:53] <Colourless> actually it would be a little different. i think u8 has different filenames for different languanges
[13:44:08] <artaxerxes> I've got u8 in french just here.
[13:44:37] <Colourless> is your usecode called fusecode.flx ?
[13:45:37] <artaxerxes> I have to unzip my archive... gimme 1/2 hour (2 GB zip).
[13:45:42] <Colourless> oh
[13:45:50] <artaxerxes> :)
[13:45:52] <Colourless> never mind
[13:47:47] <Dominus> but even with that small obstacle I don't think it would make too much problems
[13:48:27] <Colourless> we may want some translations for program options and stuff though :-)
[13:48:45] <artaxerxes> true.. and valid for SI too..
[13:48:55] <Dominus> In that I see a huge problem :-)
[13:49:12] <Colourless> heh, not with pentagram i would think :-)
[13:49:18] <artaxerxes> All those graphics (load/save/combat etc) need to be translated. And I am sure they can't all be of the same width.
[13:49:25] <Colourless> pentagram is designed the 'right' way from the start :-)
[13:49:56] <artaxerxes> Even the text "with the help of the Exult team" should technically be translated.
[13:49:59] <Dominus> yeah, after the 1.0 release of Exult there should be made some effort to localize the games
[13:50:26] <artaxerxes> like in the usecode interpreter... there are a few strings hardcoded.
[13:50:39] <artaxerxes> but I said that earlier
[13:54:34] <artaxerxes> may I ask what are you guys working on wrt exult at the moment ?
[13:54:58] * Colourless looks around and doesn't see any exult work being done
[13:55:26] <Dominus> all that is done on Exult is more like patchwork
[13:55:45] <Dominus> except for Darke's mysterious work and wjp's usecode debugger
[13:55:50] <Darke> Exult Studio and the occasional bug fix at the moment. We don't really want to do much else we'll likely just add more bugs to the code waiting for the 1.0 release.
[13:56:56] * Darke didn't know he had any 'mysterious work', except for trying to write a usecode parser for u8usecode to plug that into ucxt.
[13:57:05] <Dominus> artaxerxes: what's interesting is the latest change on where Exult looks for the paths. The last silent update of our documentary mentions it
[13:57:35] <artaxerxes> you mean directory paths or pathfinding in the game ?
[13:57:45] <Dominus> directory paths
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[13:58:24] <Colourless> that incidently is another thing pentagram is doing right from that start. all of the parts can be overridden by config
[13:58:34] <Colourless> hi Fingolfin
[13:58:40] <artaxerxes> hi
[13:58:46] <Fingolfin> yo
[13:58:51] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[13:58:51] <Colourless> a/parts/paths/
[13:58:51] <Dominus> hi
[13:58:54] <Darke> Hi.
[14:00:05] <Fingolfin> damn I can't compile pentagram
[14:00:05] <artaxerxes> how many opcodes are in u7 ?
[14:00:18] * Fingolfin install SDL to change that
[14:00:40] <Colourless> artaxerxes: just over a hundred from memory
[14:01:15] <Colourless> i could be way off though :-)
[14:01:30] <artaxerxes> I was wondering how much would be involved in making a compiler for usecode.
[14:01:47] <artaxerxes> where you write C-style code and outputs functional usecode
[14:01:49] <wjp|work> artaxerxes: we already have one
[14:01:54] <Colourless> ucc
[14:01:55] <artaxerxes> no kidding ?
[14:01:57] <wjp|work> (semi-working, even)
[14:02:21] <Darke> artaxerxes: 79ish.
[14:02:29] <artaxerxes> I'd love to have a look at ucc.
[14:02:40] * artaxerxes digs his CVS tree
[14:02:46] <Darke> exult/usecode/compiler is where you want to look.
[14:04:55] <artaxerxes> I'm a bit confused when I study usecode and stumble on a sloop.
[14:05:27] <artaxerxes> talking about weird thing, look at 0235.uc#064D
[14:05:52] <artaxerxes> it seems the bartender of Monitor says:
[14:06:03] <artaxerxes> L0135: db '"Thou art the woman of my dreams! I have never felt so refre'
[14:06:03] <artaxerxes> db 'shed. What an experience..."'
[14:06:28] <artaxerxes> and then gives the gwani cloack
[14:06:42] <artaxerxes> s/cloack/cloak/
[14:07:20] <Dominus> hm, isn't that sex scene with a male in Monitor if you play as female?
[14:07:38] <Colourless> yeah
[14:07:43] <Colourless> Brendann
[14:08:18] <artaxerxes> I've never played as a girl.. maybe that's why... where does the scene happen ?
[14:08:20] * Dominus never played with any other Avatar then the blondish one
[14:08:32] <Dominus> male one even
[14:08:47] <artaxerxes> german-style: blond, blue eyes and tall ?
[14:08:50] <Dominus> artaxerxes: I doubt it happens
[14:08:50] <artaxerxes> :)
[14:09:00] <Fingolfin> Dominus spiel immer Arier, hm? <g>
[14:09:02] <Dominus> hey that's me!!!
[14:09:14] <Fingolfin> s/spiel/spielt/
[14:09:16] <Colourless> yeah... really looks like you :-)
[14:09:19] <Dominus> (except for the blond and blue eyes) :-)
[14:09:24] <Fingolfin> indeed =)
[14:09:48] <artaxerxes> who guys should put pictures of yourselves somewhere
[14:09:56] <Fingolfin> The Who ?
[14:10:11] <Colourless> :-)
[14:10:16] <Fingolfin> I think there are pictures of them someplace =)
[14:10:27] <Dominus> artaxerxes: I plan to once ES manages to use multiple maps
[14:10:51] <Dominus> SF-Island is "planned"
[14:11:10] <Dominus> there is some text on it in the exult/docs/
[14:11:16] <artaxerxes> patch for BG or SI ?
[14:11:23] <Dominus> BG
[14:12:04] <Dominus> Just some more in the style of the existing patch by Jeff
[14:16:21] <artaxerxes> there are some very scary pictures that come up when you search images.google.com on Jeff Freedman
[14:17:09] <wjp|work> hehe, the exult main menu :-)
[14:17:20] <Dominus> yeah
[14:17:43] <artaxerxes> it seems there is a pb with the phorum
[14:17:52] <wjp|work> there is?
[14:17:54] <artaxerxes> lost my login cookie and can't login back
[14:18:08] <artaxerxes> just happened as I was reading posts
[14:18:26] <artaxerxes> says the username/password do no match but I am sure I typed it right
[14:19:09] <wjp|work> what's your username?
[14:19:20] <artaxerxes> artaxerxes
[14:19:31] <artaxerxes> oh
[14:19:33] <artaxerxes> Artaxerxes
[14:19:43] <Dominus> yeah usernames/passwords are not that good with phorum
[14:19:55] * artaxerxes gumbles...
[14:20:03] <artaxerxes> even with a capital A it doesn't work
[14:20:03] <Dominus> he he
[14:20:13] <artaxerxes> s/gumbles/grumbles/
[14:20:48] <Dominus> I lost all my post counts as I changed my password in Admin without loging out previously and that just screwed things up
[14:21:13] <Colourless> trailing slashes on dir names = Bad news
[14:21:36] <artaxerxes> can you help me fix it ?
[14:21:40] <Dominus> how did it get screwed up?
[14:21:49] * Dominus is talking to Colourless
[14:22:03] <Colourless> Dominus: the path name config option changes it seems.... i tihnk
[14:22:12] <wjp|work> your username is lowercase a, btw
[14:22:32] <artaxerxes> user profile shows capital A though
[14:22:40] <Dominus> wjp|work: you could just delete him and he can create his login again
[14:22:51] <wjp|work> no, that's name, not username
[14:22:56] <artaxerxes> ah
[14:23:48] <artaxerxes> I don't want to loose my post count though
[14:23:54] <artaxerxes> can you just reset my password ?
[14:24:06] <Colourless> the problem might be on your end btw
[14:24:19] <Colourless> your cookie might have become screwed up
[14:24:32] <artaxerxes> let me try on another machine
[14:24:36] <Dominus> artaxerxes: post count is not much worth on our phorum as it is not shown
[14:24:50] <artaxerxes> yeah, but it's personal pride... :)
[14:25:09] <Colourless> ooh, my win98 machine crahsed on gamedat creation...
[14:25:18] <wjp|work> woohoo :-)
[14:25:20] <artaxerxes> hold on
[14:25:21] <Dominus> wow
[14:25:31] <Colourless> lets see what happens if i remove those trailing slashes
[14:25:32] <artaxerxes> it worked on Konqueror
[14:25:49] <artaxerxes> ... maybe it's my machine then,..
[14:25:59] * artaxerxes grumbles even more... I hate Windows
[14:26:37] <Dominus> look for the cookie admin@forum[*] and either delete it or move it elswehere
[14:26:47] <Dominus> if you are using IE that is
[14:28:54] <artaxerxes> I guess I'll reboot windows, remove all cookies and index.dat and start IE again..
[14:33:42] <Dominus> got to go bbl
[14:33:46] <wjp|work> bye
[14:33:51] <Darke> Bye.
[14:33:51] --- Dominus is now known as Dominus|away
[14:33:53] <artaxerxes> bye
[14:34:14] <artaxerxes> and I'll go back to work/translation
[14:34:21] <artaxerxes> see ya all
[14:34:24] <Darke> Bye,
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[14:36:04] <Colourless> hmm... get_system_path only works if the <NAME_OF_PATH> bit has a / after it...
[14:37:35] <wjp|work> that's strange
[14:37:39] <Colourless> i think i'll change it to look for < and >
[14:37:40] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[14:37:51] <Colourless> pos = new_path.find('/');
[14:37:51] <Colourless> // If there is no separator, return the path as is
[14:37:51] <Colourless> if(pos != string::npos)
[14:37:59] <wjp|work> yeah, I'm just looking at it
[14:38:31] <Colourless> that behaviour is why the trailing /'s got added
[14:56:49] <Colourless> ok, it created gamedat now :-)
[14:59:46] <wjp|work> good :-)
[15:02:54] <Colourless> ok, lets commit
[15:05:55] <Colourless> done
[15:06:05] <wjp|work> going home; bye
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[15:31:42] <wjp> hi again
[15:32:16] <Darke> Welcome back.
[15:32:18] <Colourless> wb
[15:32:28] <wjp> thx
[15:59:56] * Darke decides to heed the call of the 'Z'. Night all.
[16:00:04] <wjp> g'night
[16:00:04] <Colourless> cya
[16:00:07] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
[16:52:27] <Colourless> time to go
[16:52:29] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("no comment")
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[18:16:53] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
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[20:07:43] * Sslaxx hands out strawberries. "Hi, all."
[20:08:31] <wjp> hi
[20:08:54] * wjp has some strawberries. Yum!
[20:09:29] <Sslaxx> How is everyone?
[20:09:51] <wjp> busy, but ok :-)
[20:10:22] * Sslaxx nods.
[20:12:49] <Fingolfin> yyumm
[20:12:56] <Fingolfin> thanks, Sslaxx
[20:13:26] * Sslaxx is fine. Watching a 21MB download on a v90 is fun. Not.
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