#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Dec 2002 (GMT)

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[00:34:31] <Dominus> hi Kirben
[00:34:38] <Kirben> Hi
[00:56:14] <Fingolfin> hi Dominus, Kirben
[00:57:19] <Kirben> Fingolfin: Could you check my dependancy tracking change to exult if you have time ? not sure if its working right.
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[03:14:44] <ShadwChsr> Hey :)
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[06:22:02] <MeatShield> any new news on combat features for 1.1?
[06:28:09] <Kirben> no
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[09:10:30] <ShadwChsr> 'evening
[09:10:39] <Darke> Hiya!
[09:11:22] <ShadwChsr> Getting better at the whole c++ thing... I think having that help last night got rid of most of my frustration :)
[09:11:41] <ShadwChsr> Building the shell of the game engine right now, before I start porting the "real" code :)
[09:11:48] * Darke yays!
[09:11:59] <ShadwChsr> It's amazing how much a simple visio diagram helps when you do that ;)
[09:12:33] <ShadwChsr> 13 source files right now, all hooked up to each other :)
[09:12:41] <ShadwChsr> And the window message loop code is done and happy
[09:13:02] <ShadwChsr> Kind of simple, yeah, but then again I've only been coding c++ for.. 3 days ;)
[09:13:24] <ShadwChsr> what do you know about the STL string class?
[09:13:48] <Darke> It's neat? *grin* I use it all the time, what do you want to know about it?
[09:14:14] <ShadwChsr> I hear all the time about nasty issues with pointers to char arrays
[09:14:21] <ShadwChsr> overruns, underruns, etc etc etc
[09:14:26] <ShadwChsr> how "safe" is the string class?
[09:14:35] <ShadwChsr> is it fool proof?
[09:14:51] <Darke> Pretty much.
[09:14:56] <ShadwChsr> can I do stringA = stringA + stringB; and it wont overrun? :)
[09:15:15] <Darke> The only problem you might have is doing a string::data() which returns a char*.
[09:15:21] <Darke> Yep! That's why strings are good. *grin*
[09:15:26] <ShadwChsr> excellent :)
[09:15:38] <ShadwChsr> is it multibyte?
[09:15:45] <ShadwChsr> or a wrapper for an array of chars?
[09:16:09] <Darke> Wrapper for an array of chars. IIRC, there's a multibyte string, but I haven't used it. Just a sec and I'll check.
[09:17:03] <ShadwChsr> Just need single-byte for now since i'm using it to hold a path (which can only be multibyte, i think.. i hope ;-), but later I want the system to be multibyte compatible from the start - less issues porting it that way
[09:18:53] <Darke> `wstring` is the multibyte alternative.
[09:19:08] <ShadwChsr> thanks :)
[09:19:20] * Darke admits he hasn't used it though, but it 'should' work just like a std::string.
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[10:46:04] <Darke> Hi!
[10:46:19] <Colourless> hi
[10:57:07] <Colourless> is calling c++ virtual functions really 'that' slow?
[10:58:01] <Darke> Umm... no. It just requires another indirection. As if you were calling a pointer to a function.
[10:58:32] <Colourless> yeah i know, it's 2 indirections, rather than 1 for a func pointer
[11:00:12] * Darke nods. There really isn't 'much' overhead to it, unless what you're doing with it is in a tight loop, the function you're calling is small, and the loop is executed a significant amount of times. AKA, in almost all situations there's no penalty.
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[11:01:22] <Colourless> i really want something a little more abstracted for the rendering code
[11:02:00] <Colourless> just wondering what penalty using virtual functions would have.
[11:02:34] <Colourless> but then i think that for the sorts of things that i want to be doing, virtual functions are too 'limited'
[11:03:42] <Colourless> but then again, i could just make the entire RenderSurface class a template :-)
[11:03:54] <Darke> That works! *grin*
[11:04:24] <Colourless> i really don't like the function pointer 'hack' that I use at the moment
[11:06:45] <Darke> Ah! The only major disadvantage of virtual function calls is that you can't inline them. But given that you tend to do non-trivial stuff in virtual function calls, most of the time they won't be inlined anyway.
[11:07:03] <Colourless> the code isn't going to be inlined
[11:07:28] <Colourless> i think i'll just end up using templates and virtual functions. I think our systems are fast enough to handle 2 indirections per RenderSurface->draw() call
[11:08:28] <Colourless> our modern cpus will probably end up caching the vtable anyway
[11:08:45] <Colourless> and the RenderSurface object too
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[11:30:27] * Jett pokes gingerly at the edge of the channel. He thinks he's stable for a bit. Hopefully.
[11:39:03] <Colourless> :-)
[11:40:30] * Jett ties a cable around his waist, and hooks the other end around the Etherial Bolt holding this channel together. That should hold him. *nodnod*
[11:42:28] <Colourless> hmm, yes that should do
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[15:11:51] <Zxcvb> is there a bug with the ship handling code?
[15:11:59] <Zxcvb> i just noticed it is very hard to get the ship into port
[15:12:15] <Zxcvb> when i try to go west and south, sometimes it will go northeast instead
[15:12:24] <Colourless> bug not really, controls not optimal, more likely :-)
[15:12:41] <Zxcvb> why is it going northeast when i try to go west and south?
[15:12:57] <Zxcvb> is it trying to be "helpful" by helping you around the other ship in the port?
[15:12:58] <wjp> is it really going NE or is the camera position just acting up?
[15:13:09] <Zxcvb> wjp: really going NE
[15:13:13] <Colourless> hmm, it should do that
[15:13:27] <Zxcvb> wjp: i got the ship from vesper, and tried to put it in britain's port
[15:13:28] <Colourless> s/should/shouldn't/
[15:13:58] <Zxcvb> wjp: but when i get in close to the bottom port, it goes north and east, as if it is trying to help me around the other ship
[15:14:21] <Zxcvb> guess i will have to buy all the ships
[15:14:23] <wjp> I don't think we have any 'helping' code in there
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[15:14:50] <Zxcvb> wjp: in the real ultima 7, you could walk or sail straight into an obstruction
[15:15:00] <Zxcvb> wjp: apparently exult tries to get you around it
[15:15:22] <wjp> oh, that.. the original did that for walking too
[15:15:30] <Zxcvb> wjp: not for sailing
[15:15:56] <Zxcvb> wjp: made it much easier to enter port without buying and moving all the ships
[15:16:41] <Zxcvb> are there any known bugs with too many items in one area?
[15:16:58] <wjp> don't think so
[15:16:59] <Zxcvb> just want to make sure i can still use the silver seed keep as a storage area
[15:17:30] <Zxcvb> in ultima ix without the unofficial 1.19f patch, too many items in one area would crash
[15:17:43] <wjp> this isn't u9 :-)
[15:18:12] <Zxcvb> in the real ultima 7, having too much gold would either crash, or cause wierd things like the castle not to have a roof
[15:18:18] <Zxcvb> has that bug been fixed?
[15:18:37] <wjp> I don't think exult suffers from that
[15:19:00] <wjp> I'm not aware of any object-count limits, anyway
[15:19:40] <Zxcvb> but who needs 129,600 gold anyway
[15:19:49] <wjp> it wasn't really a bug, btw. More of a design issue
[15:20:26] <Zxcvb> so exult is fully protected mode
[15:20:49] <wjp> it's just a native win32, linux, whatever app
[15:20:52] <Zxcvb> in u7, if you got 129,600 gold, it would crash with 'out of near memory'
[15:29:13] <Zxcvb> also, how do you get the musket bullets from the skeleton north of trinsic?
[15:29:22] <Zxcvb> each time i try, it says it can't reach them
[15:30:57] <Zxcvb> or is there some other place to get bullets?
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[16:06:35] <Dominus> VDMS for Win9x : http://vogons.zetafleet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=900
[16:07:11] <Colourless> pretty cool
[16:10:00] <Colourless> i wonder what ultima 8 does to it :-)
[16:13:05] <Dominus> yeah, will try later myself
[16:13:12] <matto|wookin> VDMS, eh?
[16:14:38] <Dominus> http://ntvdm.cjb.net/
[16:14:46] <Dominus> another SF project
[16:15:22] <Dominus> which aim it is to emulate sound cards for use in NT-console
[16:15:43] <Colourless> and now win9x it seems too :-)
[16:17:19] <Dominus> oh, btw, hi all :-)
[16:20:08] <Dominus> funny thing to do with IE: http://www.chl.chalmers.se/~eb/tmp/die/
[16:20:22] <Dominus> (only flash, no worry)
[16:20:51] <Colourless> well, if that happened to me in WinXP there would be a real problem :-)
[16:21:16] <Dominus> he he
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[17:03:22] <wjp> hi again
[17:05:19] <Dominus> wb
[17:06:25] <wjp> hm, it seems my @users.sourceforge.net address got subscribed to that 'artprice' ML
[17:07:06] <Colourless> wb
[17:07:52] <Colourless> my triforce@merlin account too
[17:08:03] <Dominus> he he
[17:09:42] <Colourless> i really shouldn't be using that email address any more. my isp sent out a email saying that they were going to suspend all the @merlin.net.at accounts (because of the amount of spam) unless you asked for more time to update email addresses
[17:10:16] <wjp> hm, you have a different address now?
[17:10:24] * wjp checks some headers
[17:10:44] <Colourless> i've been using colourles@users.sourceforge.net
[17:10:49] * wjp nods; so I see
[17:11:12] <Colourless> that redirects to triforce@internode.net.au
[17:12:02] <Colourless> i've been changing everything to the users.sf.net address since it will protect me just a bit from another address change
[17:13:11] <Colourless> i am just reluctant so far to my merlin suspendened as i know there are a number of things i've got accounts for that still point to the merlin address
[17:13:23] <Colourless> s/to my/to have my/
[17:13:45] <wjp> yikes, CVS is even slower today than yesterday
[17:14:29] <Colourless> dominus and i noticed
[17:14:48] <Colourless> "[03:00] <Colourless> is it just me, or is cvs running really really really really slowly?"
[17:14:55] <Colourless> "[03:03] <Dominus> and it is veeery slow"
[17:15:03] <Colourless> "[03:10] <Colourless> wtf??? cvs diff: [08:40:08] waiting for colourles's lock in /cvsroot/pentagram/old"
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[18:13:33] <Dominus> hmm, I wonder what happens if you have two spellbooks in BG or SI and you press 'b'
[18:13:47] <wjp> it'll pick the first it finds I think
[18:14:04] <Colourless> yeah
[18:14:11] <Dominus> can you have only one spellbook in a container?
[18:14:29] <wjp> no, don't think so
[18:14:31] <Colourless> no, you can have as many as you want
[18:14:51] <Colourless> but when you press 'b' the code only searches for the first spellbook it finds
[18:14:56] <Dominus> so it might be pure chance which one gets opened?
[18:15:02] <wjp> yes :-)
[18:15:08] <Colourless> this should always be the same book
[18:15:22] <Colourless> (assume the code acts somewhat logically)
[18:15:25] <wjp> hm, couldn't it change randomly when objects are added/removed?
[18:15:45] <Colourless> well, yes if things are changed then anything could happen :-)(
[18:16:21] <Colourless> it wont be random though :-)
[18:16:44] <Dominus> the reason I ask is because in .series someone asked if you could combine spellbooks and someone asnwered that you can't but still use both and that got me wondering :-)
[18:17:21] <Colourless> both spell books are independant of each other
[18:17:54] <Colourless> you can bring both of their gumps up by double clicking on them
[18:17:54] <Dominus> sure, still wondered which one gets opened...
[18:18:19] <Colourless> but, the 'b' key will open which ever was probably added first to your inventory
[18:18:37] <Colourless> and even then, if they are in containers in different ready spots in your inventory things will act different again
[18:18:38] <Dominus> k
[18:20:19] <Colourless> even moving the spellbooks around in the backpack might change the order
[18:20:53] <Dominus> that's what I'm thinking as well
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[21:21:30] <Dominus> hi Fingolfin
[21:21:37] <Fingolfin> hi
[21:21:47] <wjp> hi
[22:42:03] <wjp> time for me to go
[22:42:06] <wjp> g'night
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