#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Feb 2002 (GMT)

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[08:48:52] * Darke bows, "Hi!"
[08:54:46] <Kirben> Hi Darke
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[11:06:15] <wjp> hi
[11:06:46] <Darke> Hello.
[12:18:35] --> Avatar has joined #exult
[12:18:39] <Avatar> hi
[12:18:47] <wjp> hi
[12:18:59] <Avatar> ich habe Delphi 5.0
[12:19:04] <Avatar> ist ganz gut
[12:19:28] <Avatar> kann ich damit irgendwas mit ultima machen?
[12:19:36] <Avatar> oder wirklich nur mit C++
[12:20:02] <wjp> what do you mean with "mit ultima"?
[12:20:12] <Avatar> with ultima
[12:20:23] <wjp> I know what it means, but I don't know what you mean by it
[12:20:37] <Avatar> can i make for example a multiplayer mode with delphi or only with C++
[12:20:54] <wjp> a multiplayer mode for Exult? You'll need C++ for that
[12:21:07] <Avatar> ohh
[12:21:13] <wjp> if you want to write a completely new game, without using Exult's code, you can of course use delphi
[12:21:15] <Avatar> can i do nothing with Delphi
[12:21:26] <Avatar> good
[12:21:34] <Avatar> i am working at a roleplaying game
[12:21:43] <Avatar> the title is "Ultima World"
[12:22:05] <Avatar> its complete to 5%.. Verson 0.0.0.1
[12:22:06] <Avatar> hehe
[12:22:18] <Avatar> good yeah?
[12:23:51] <Avatar> ok
[12:23:55] <Avatar> see you late
[12:23:57] <Avatar> bye
[12:24:02] <Avatar> i must work on
[12:24:04] <Avatar> BYE
[12:25:24] <Darke> Hi! Bye! <grin>
[12:26:15] <Avatar> <grin> ???
[12:26:40] <Darke> s/<grin>/*grin*/
[12:26:50] <Darke> s/*grin*/;)/
[12:27:08] <Darke> It's an emote.
[12:27:10] <Avatar> are you crazy?
[12:27:13] <Avatar> oh
[12:28:22] * Darke nods. Yes, he's crazy, that's already been established by most of the inhabitants of #exult. *grin*
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[13:33:56] <Colourless> hi
[13:33:58] <wjp> hi
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[13:41:00] <Darke> Hello.
[13:46:45] * Darke flicks through his desktops and notices he has one still that is covered with INTERCAL related webpages, documents and xterms, and decides to close them all before they drain yet more time from him.
[13:46:58] <Colourless> hehe
[13:47:08] <Colourless> it's almost been an entire DAY
[13:47:52] <Darke> So you're saying it's almost time for another discussion on the evils of INTERCAL?
[13:48:03] <Colourless> hmmm, not at all
[13:48:51] <Darke> Good. I was afraid I would have to get out my sign that says "I can't HEAR YOU!" otherwise. <grin>
[13:55:18] * Darke considers it's actually not his sign, he's only borrowing it, and he's been hit over the head by it once already today, so maybe it's not a good idea to threaten others with it.
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[14:47:57] * Darke wonders why this 'Avatar' creature seems to be so annoyed at the fact there's very few people who seem to be interested in 'his' idea of a multiplayer U7.
[14:55:29] <Colourless> my eternal optimisim summed it up best I think :-)
[14:57:02] <Darke> The post where you say it's 'NEVER' going to happen? *grin* I suspect I agree with you there.
[14:57:10] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[14:57:35] <Colourless> in my mind i think I meant to write NOT going to happen, but NEVER came out :-)
[14:59:25] <Colourless> i think that if a multiplayer u7 project really got going, there would be an incredible amount of bickering about what sort of game to actually make.
[14:59:53] <Colourless> there would be people who want to play in the actual U7 story
[14:59:54] <Darke> IMO, 'never' does sound a bit over the top, but I can't see the problem in relation to being so forceful. <grin> We've had enough people say "why doesn't someone make one?" that maybe if we say 'no' loud and long enough people will get the hint.
[15:00:09] <Colourless> there would be people who want a different story
[15:00:19] <Colourless> there would be those who want a MMORPG
[15:00:32] * Darke nods, he can see _so_ many problems in relation to it. It would be pretty much have to be an entire new game.
[15:00:34] <Colourless> there would be those who would want a lan type game
[15:01:51] <Darke> And others who would just want to use it as a social game, and not really care about the 'story' just wandering the world and talking with friends.
[15:02:10] <Colourless> aye
[15:02:40] <Colourless> there is no way to actually manage to satisfy all of the people. I think you'd get 25% at best :-)
[15:03:28] * Darke wonders if there's a mention in the FAQ, that none of the exult developers are considering writing a multiplayer exult at all, and that if they want to make one, their best bet is to grab the code from the cvs, and start coding. If there isn't, perhaps there should be.
[15:04:43] <Darke> Agreed. I think we could get about 75% if we were very flexible with the configuration options. And perhaps that's something to consider in relation to the design of pentagram, design it so that having 'n' avatars wandering the world won't hurt things too much.
[15:05:37] <Colourless> pentagram is probably going to be designed quite a bit differently to exult
[15:06:15] <_Kreed_> yawn
[15:06:18] * Darke notes he didn't mention actually coding multiplayer into it, just that it might be a good idea to make sure that potential trouble areas where you reference 'one' avatar, are easily modified to reference the 'current' avatar. <grin>
[15:06:29] * Darke nods.
[15:06:42] * _Kreed_ notes that Darke loves talking in 3rd person
[15:07:03] <Colourless> well the ultima 8 usecode is quite a beast.
[15:07:05] * Darke covers Kreed's mouth with a paw. It's rude to yawn in public without doing so.
[15:07:27] <Darke> Agreed. <grin> I LIKE u8's usecode.
[15:10:32] * Darke points out to Kreed that he's used to talking in third person because he's used to roleplaying online. Where writing poses that combine thinking and talking tend to all happen within an 'action'. So it's more convenient. *grin*
[15:10:34] <Colourless> due to the way the animation/movement system works in u8 having multiple input's would probably be fairly simple
[15:11:10] <Colourless> but handling the usecode will just be a pain in the ass
[15:12:04] * Darke nods, and nods, and grins. "Agreed. Multi-threaded usecode. What fun!"
[15:13:07] <Colourless> :-)
[15:14:29] <Darke> One potential 'evilness' with the usecode could be that some of the threaded function calling opcodes could 'fork' a new copy of the 'class'/stack, whilst others could run with the same 'class'/stack as the parent. But I don't think that would be at all sane.
[15:15:13] <Darke> It would possibly explain the existance of the 'class' concept though, unless there is another speculated reason for it that I don't know about.
[15:16:03] <Colourless> the class concept is pretty simple... it's just an oo language
[15:16:28] <Colourless> each entry in the usecode file is just a class.
[15:17:23] <Colourless> there are 2 distinct type of functions in the classes. Routines (things static method) and Processes (think normal method)
[15:17:39] <Colourless> the processes can be spawned and create another thread, the routines can't
[15:17:47] * Darke nods.
[15:19:19] <Colourless> the processes definitly have 'this' passed as the first param when called.
[15:19:55] <Darke> So, at the point where it spawns another thread, any idea if it: a) Makes a copy of the current 'stack' and passes it to the new thread. b) They both share the same 'stack', or. c) A new 'stack' is created.
[15:20:25] * Darke nods. That would make sense.
[15:21:09] <Colourless> good question. it's not really obvious, but it's not b. I tend to think a new stack is created with just the params passed on it.
[15:22:01] <Colourless> i really don't think it matters if it's a or c
[15:22:31] <Darke> Another wierd question. <grin> Are any of the static methods identical in multiple classes? I'm just thinking of them kind of like 'inlined' library functions.
[15:22:34] <Colourless> under no circumstances should a function attempt to pop values off the stack that weren't passed to it
[15:22:59] * Darke has a suspicion that would have been enforced by their compiler.
[15:24:27] <Colourless> i haven't looked at the usecode close enough to see any thing like that, but the display item name functions would be pretty similar between classes
[15:26:00] <Darke> Actually s/identical/similar/ it's also possible they were a kind of template function. Which would also make sense if they're designing it 'C++ like' as I'm guessing they are.
[15:35:46] <wjp> display item name functions are similar yes. The differences are mostly in shapes for which different frames have different names; or NPCs (who can be known or unknown, dead or alive, etc...)
[16:29:14] <wjp> btw, Colourless, did you see the bug report for the status bars I added?
[16:30:10] <wjp> hm, s/for the status bars I added/I added for the status bars/ to phrase it a little better :-)
[16:40:57] <Colourless> yeah i saw it
[16:41:44] <wjp> how are face shapes associated with NPCs?
[16:41:54] <wjp> through the paperdoll_info?
[16:42:05] <Colourless> yeah by shape using paperdoll_info
[16:42:17] <Colourless> there should be extra checking
[16:42:37] <Colourless> if the npc isn't supposed to produce gumps, it shouldn't have a face either
[16:42:53] <Colourless> it's really 2 problems, not just 1
[16:43:06] <wjp> as an aside: maybe we should add some ghosty faces for Rowena and Forsythe
[16:46:28] <wjp> hehe: "If you feel the need to make a version of LaTeX that differs from the standard version in ways that are not possible using the above [...], the you should first read "Modifiying LaTeX" [...]; this will probably make you realise that you do not have any such need."
[16:47:30] * wjp is curious what kind of horrible document Modifying LaTeX is :-)
[16:48:06] <Colourless> wjp: about the faces, i'll fix them up a little later
[16:50:01] <Darke> wjp: If you're sufficiently curious... http://www.latex-project.org/guides/modguide/modguide.html
[16:50:26] <wjp> Darke: I know, I'm reading it now
[16:50:50] <wjp> (well, /usr/share/texmf/doc/latex/base/modguide.dvi, actually)
[16:52:06] * Darke grins. He got curious as well.
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[17:48:28] <wjp|dinner> bbl
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[18:02:39] <Dominus> hey ho
[18:02:45] <Colourless> hi
[18:03:00] * Dominus is back in freezing Austria
[18:03:28] * Dominus has to download all of exult CVS again now...
[18:03:36] <Colourless> :-)
[18:04:50] <Dominus> any news regarding that glidexp and opengl stuff ?
[18:05:01] <Colourless> nope
[18:05:02] <Dominus> i#m hopelessely out of touch
[18:17:35] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:17:39] <wjp> hi Dominik
[18:17:47] <Dominus> hi
[18:17:52] <Colourless> wb
[18:18:05] <Dominus> I read you've almost finished the Otherland series
[18:18:11] <wjp> 3/4
[18:18:16] <wjp> still waiting for part 4...
[18:18:17] <Dominus> seems you liked it :-)
[18:18:41] <wjp> slightly weird, but pretty good :-)
[18:19:06] <Dominus> imagine being immersed like he describes it...
[18:20:48] <wjp> a direct neural connection to the net doesn't sound exactly... safe... either
[18:21:01] <wjp> DoS gets a whole new meaning... :-)
[18:21:24] <Colourless> well, cyberpunk really couldn't work otherwise
[18:21:40] <Dominus> there is a great writer (whose name is lost on me now), in one of his short stories he has a funny idea
[18:22:13] <wjp> Dominus: wow, two "RTFF" question to welcome you back :-)
[18:22:16] <wjp> s/ion/ions/
[18:22:22] <Dominus> in a windows version that is connected to your brain you could disable a vital function via a secret registry entry
[18:22:29] <wjp> (on the forum, I mean)
[18:22:30] <Dominus> sth like disable dreams
[18:22:41] <Colourless> hehe
[18:22:49] <Dominus> the problem was it couldn't be reversed...
[18:22:55] <Colourless> take up too much processing time. only eyecandy :-)
[18:23:01] <Colourless> os would need to be reinstalled :-)
[18:24:13] <Dominus> wjp: well, I thought people expected me to say RTFF
[18:24:41] <wjp> Dominus: that's why they welcomed you back this way ;-)
[18:24:51] <Dominus> it's not my fault if people refuse to read the FAQ :-)
[18:25:10] <Dominus> but I hope Jeff figures out combat sometime in the future
[18:25:40] <Dominus> now let's see if Exult still compiles for me
[18:25:44] <wjp> combat isn't a priority for Jeff. (or me, for that matter)
[18:25:50] <Colourless> or me
[18:26:01] <Colourless> or fingolfin, or anyone else for that matter
[18:26:25] <Dominus> actually the only thing I would love to see fixed is the spellbook combat
[18:27:01] <wjp> was that actually usable in the original? The one time I tried it, it fired up all my mana on fireballs in half a second
[18:27:12] <Dominus> he he
[18:27:20] <Dominus> actually I never used it :-)
[18:27:49] <Dominus> but it would be nice in god and archwizard mode :-)
[18:29:01] <Colourless> i never used it either
[18:29:50] <Colourless> i only used a cupple spells in the games. healing, cure, awaken, sleep, create food, create automaton and death vortex were about it
[18:30:10] <Colourless> and translate, and chill too thinking about it
[18:30:21] <Dominus> yeah, U7 really wasn'T about combat
[18:30:31] <Dominus> Colourless: how about unlock magic?
[18:30:40] <Colourless> yeah, that too
[18:30:50] <wjp> serpent bond? :-)
[18:30:56] <Colourless> yes of course
[18:31:04] <Dominus> only once :-)
[18:31:19] <wjp> false coin was nice, too
[18:31:24] <Colourless> and create worm prism
[18:31:42] <wjp> and that seance spell :-)
[18:31:50] <Colourless> aye
[18:31:57] <Dominus> but false coins was pretty useless in SI - there is so much cash around and so few opportunities to spend it
[18:32:00] <Colourless> but still, only 1 combat spell
[18:32:17] <Colourless> all those others weren't combat spells (except maybe sleep)
[18:32:43] <wjp> hm, I usually picked up False Coin from beneath the inn, used that to create tons of money, buy all spells, and then forget about money for the rest of the game
[18:33:10] <Colourless> buying spells was pretty much the only thing you needed money for
[18:33:30] <Dominus> actually strange that there is no "cheaters" spell book in SI
[18:33:40] <Dominus> with all the spells in it
[18:33:58] <Colourless> perhaps there is, but it just hasn't been found
[18:33:59] <Dominus> ok, exult compiled on to studio
[18:40:35] <Dominus> nice to see the SI endgame with sound
[18:40:45] <Colourless> :-)
[18:40:50] <Dominus> the thunder in the intro is very bad
[18:41:00] <Dominus> I remember it a bit better
[18:41:07] <Dominus> still it is there now
[18:41:15] <Dominus> thanks Colourless
[18:42:17] <Dominus> hm, problem with make tools : make: *** No rule to make target `head2data.o', needed by `head2data.exe'. Stop
[18:46:55] <_Kreed_> hello Dominus
[18:47:05] <Dominus> hi
[18:47:29] <_Kreed_> webpage updated just a bit :)
[18:47:53] <_Kreed_> updated some missing links
[18:48:01] <_Kreed_> i think they're all fixed now
[18:48:18] <Dominus> he he
[18:52:01] <Dominus> he he Colourless, check out http://elektron.its.tudelft.nl/~dalikifa/#news
[18:52:59] * _Kreed_ hides
[18:53:03] <Colourless> Kreed: the answer is forgotten
[18:55:48] <Dominus> nice reminder
[19:23:40] <Dominus> ok, I'm off for now. Update time :-)
[19:23:46] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
[19:42:15] <Colourless> time for me to go
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[20:23:41] <Dominus> hi again
[20:23:47] <wjp> hi
[20:23:49] <_Kreed_> hi
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[22:25:22] <sb-x> hi
[22:25:47] <Dominus> hello
[22:25:53] <wjp> hi
[22:26:16] <sb-x> ?date
[22:26:17] <exultbot> It is now Sat Feb 16 22:26:17 2002 (GMT).
[22:28:02] <_Kreed_> ?hello
[22:28:11] <_Kreed_> ?name
[22:28:11] <exultbot> Greetings Avatar. I am called Exultbot.
[22:28:17] <_Kreed_> ?wife
[22:28:25] <_Kreed_> ?job
[22:28:25] <exultbot> My job is to write down everything you say.
[22:28:35] <_Kreed_> hm..
[22:28:51] <_Kreed_> there aren't many standard ultima questions except for name and job and bye
[22:28:55] <_Kreed_> ?bye
[22:28:55] <exultbot> Goodbye, Avatar.
[22:28:56] <sb-x> ?fellowship
[22:29:01] <sb-x> ?join
[22:29:01] <exultbot> I would be honored to join thee, Avatar, but I'm already in #exult's party.
[22:29:05] <_Kreed_> lol
[22:29:06] <sb-x> hehe
[22:29:07] <_Kreed_> ?leave
[22:29:12] <_Kreed_> ..
[22:29:18] <_Kreed_> leave you annoying boy
[22:29:19] <_Kreed_> bot
[22:29:24] <_Kreed_> :)
[22:31:39] <-- exultbot has left #exult ()
[22:32:34] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[22:32:34] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult! An engine to play Ultima7: Black Gate and Serpent Isle! Exult!
[22:32:34] --- Topic for #exult set by Darke at Sun Jan 27 04:05:44 2002
[22:32:35] <sb-x> gee thanks _Kreed_
[22:32:41] <sb-x> ?hello
[22:32:48] <sb-x> exultbot: hello
[22:32:48] <exultbot> Hi sb-x!
[22:32:55] <sb-x> heh
[22:33:00] <_Kreed_> haha
[22:33:12] <_Kreed_> ?buy
[22:33:21] <_Kreed_> hm..
[22:33:27] <_Kreed_> how do the merchant dialogs go again?
[22:33:34] <_Kreed_> ?yes
[22:33:51] <wjp> I think you already saw all the conversation options
[22:34:13] <sb-x> we were hoping there were some new ones :)
[22:34:29] <sb-x> ?version
[22:34:29] <exultbot> The latest official version of Exult is: 0.96beta1
[22:34:31] * exultbot is open to suggestions ;-)
[22:37:41] * sb-x has none.
[22:40:28] <_Kreed_> ?23*2
[22:40:34] <_Kreed_> ..
[22:40:41] <_Kreed_> mathematically challenged
[22:40:42] <exultbot> 46? ;-)
[22:41:04] <wjp> integer arithmetic is below exultbot ;-)
[22:41:27] <wjp> he's more suited for abstract algebraic proofs
[22:41:36] <_Kreed_> ?P=NP
[22:41:48] <wjp> that isn't algebra :-)
[22:41:53] <_Kreed_> ..
[22:42:06] <_Kreed_> algebra can be derived from logic
[22:42:08] <exultbot> solutions: N = 1 or P = 0
[22:42:12] <_Kreed_> haha
[22:42:14] <_Kreed_> noooo
[22:44:02] <wjp> brb
[22:44:43] <_Kreed_> besides, complexity theory is kinda mathematic too :)
[22:49:18] <wjp> b
[23:12:55] <wjp> I have to go
[23:12:57] <wjp> goodnight
[23:12:59] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[23:17:11] <Dominus> going as well
[23:17:13] <Dominus> bye
[23:17:16] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
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