#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Feb 2003 (GMT)

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[04:59:15] <Coren_> Hullo!
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[10:15:21] <Colourless> hi
[10:15:23] <Colourless> you've got to be kidding darke, if you want to convince me that you are sleeping
[10:15:42] * DarkeZzz snoozes.
[10:16:55] <Colourless> you could have aleast attempted at making it seem a little more convincing
[10:17:28] * DarkeZzz needs to write a Bot Of Insufficient Light, so he can pretend to be here, even though he's asleep.
[10:18:26] <Colourless> :-)
[10:23:44] <DarkeZzz> I mean, all it needs to do is to complain about VC++, make random innane comments, and say something usecode related every now and again. How hard could it be? *grin*
[10:41:48] <Colourless> you know what, you could probably just choose a selection of random nouns, verbs, adjectives from a list, string them together and you'd sound about a coherant as normal
[10:47:16] * DarkeZzz ponders. Hmm... maybe. You'd have to weight them appropriately of course, I don't often use the term 'disenfranchise' for example.
[10:48:04] <Yuv422> hi guys
[10:48:24] --- DarkeZzz is now known as Darke
[10:48:28] <Darke> Hiya.
[10:49:29] <Yuv422> I've been busy coordinating a troup of dancing xboxes for you darke. ;)
[10:50:54] <Colourless> :-)
[10:50:57] <Darke> Well... they're not *technically* for me, y'see. So you can deliver them straight to Colourless without involving me, if you want to. *grin*
[10:51:40] <Yuv422> I'm having trouble getting them to dance without legs :(
[10:51:46] <Colourless> i need a short poem. someone want to give me one?
[10:54:05] <Yuv422> you can't go wrong with a Haiku They are always short. *g*
[10:55:05] <Colourless> now, i 'know' that, but you know, i don't want to have to come up with one :-)
[10:55:41] <Darke> What's the syllable count for Haiku again? *grin*
[10:56:26] <Yuv422> is it 4 5 4 ?
[10:57:27] <Yuv422> http://www.poems.com/
[10:57:42] <Darke> I thought it was 5/7/5.
[10:58:05] <Yuv422> hmm yeah that sounds right now I think about it.
[10:58:45] <Colourless> :-)
[10:58:48] --- Colourless is now known as Cless|Away
[11:00:16] <Darke> "Many things just suck/the cpp FlexLexer/is truely one thing."?
[11:00:54] <Yuv422> C/C++ preprocessing is a tricky thing ;)
[11:01:09] <Yuv422> have you ever used flex or bison?
[11:01:24] <Darke> Regularly and unfortunately currently. *grin*
[11:02:12] <Yuv422> are you using both ATM? are you writing a config / scripting system?
[11:03:48] <Darke> Only flex, since you can't encapsulate bison in a class, without significant amounts of post bison processing.
[11:04:23] <Yuv422> hmm I thought bison was C++ friendly?
[11:05:10] <Yuv422> I haven't used bison since my compiler theory course at uni. ;)
[11:05:45] <Darke> Sure. The C bison code is C++ friendly. However it spits out a mess of #defines, structs and raw functions. Flex has a way of outputting a class where everything is wrapped up into it. Bison doesn't have this method. It also can't interface directly to the flex c++ class, so you need to use the C output.
[11:06:21] <Yuv422> so are you writing the parser yourself?
[11:08:16] <Darke> Kind of. *grin* I'm using the C++ output of flex, after much wall-to-head banging, but going to have to write bison's part myself, which isn't difficult. I've written compilers entirely by hand before.
[11:09:01] <Yuv422> recursive desent? or table based like bison?
[11:09:22] <Yuv422> L1LR?? is that what it's called? I forget.
[11:10:34] <Yuv422> LALR1
[11:10:45] <Darke> LALR I believe. Recursive descent, 'cause that's easiest given the class based structure of C++.
[11:13:05] <Yuv422> yeah recursive decent is good (as long as you don't overflow your stack) ;)
[11:16:43] <Darke> If it toasts my stack in C++, then there's *no* way it's going to be able to be a valid usecode script. *grin*
[11:17:04] <Yuv422> :) is this for U8?
[11:17:22] <Yuv422> or are you playing with U7 usecode?
[11:17:40] <Darke> U8.
[11:17:51] <Darke> U7 usecode already has a compiler for it. *grin*
[11:18:03] <Yuv422> is it similar to U7 usecode?
[11:18:44] * Darke is trying to make one that has equal rights as any other 'process' in the pentagram environment, which means bison almost rules itself out by default.
[11:19:27] <Darke> Only in the way that any simple bytecode language is similar to it. *grin* They're not much in the way of similarity, except they it's obvious the coder learned what to do and what not to do with u7's and implemented it in u8.
[11:19:57] <Darke> That and U8's usecode is object orientated, whereas u7's is function orientated.
[11:20:35] <Yuv422> ah k
[11:21:14] <Yuv422> how many objects in the U8 usecode script?
[11:22:38] <Darke> In u8's or potential max number of objects?
[11:23:12] <Yuv422> U8
[11:25:57] <Darke> That 'last' class is 1430. Not all classes actually map to physical objects (they're just base classes of which other ones have derived, or just utility classes), and not all physical objects have a class attached to them (if they don't have any function, then they don't have any code).
[11:26:52] <Yuv422> how's it going? have you worked out most of the usecode details?
[11:27:09] <Darke> There's 516 classes in total.
[11:28:02] <Yuv422> I was going to write a new engine for U6 but didn't like the thought of reverse engineering the program/datafiles.
[11:28:22] <Darke> We know all the opcodes and know exactly how most work, some of the more complex ones are still a bit unknown, since we need to get a 'working' engine to test them all. We've got a disassembler, I've started a decompiler that works for one function which I stopped for a bit to work on the compiler, and we've got parts of a usecode-machine working too. wjp has been fiddling with that.
[11:29:41] <Yuv422> do you know if U6 has a usecode style scripting system?
[11:30:14] <Yuv422> I saw some info on character conversations but it didn't mention how they were strung together.
[11:30:45] <Darke> I'd think it would have to. But I've not really looked into U6 at all, since I can't stand the game. *grin*
[11:32:00] <Yuv422> really, what don't you like? *g* so you wouldn't be interested in helping on a rewrite? ;)
[11:33:25] <Yuv422> so you think that U8 is a better game than U6 discounting graphics etc.
[11:33:35] <Coren_> Yuv422: LALR(1), specifically. And bison's c++ support sucks. :-)
[11:34:20] <Darke> The god-awful interface? *grin* I can't stand the top-down "we'll give you this tiny window into the world" view, it was ok for Tunnels and Trolls way back in the early 1980's but not for a 'cutting edge' game. *grin*
[11:34:46] <Coren_> U6 had a kickass storyline tough. :-)
[11:34:50] <Yuv422> yeah I got my compiler theory book out and checked it out.
[11:35:17] <Yuv422> well a rewritten engine could have a larger gamewindow. :)
[11:35:38] <Yuv422> and better nighttime rendering. :)
[11:35:45] * Darke never got to the story, he got frustrated after playing the game for a couple of days and hasn't touched it since. *grin*
[11:36:01] <Yuv422> did you play it when it was first released?
[11:36:10] <Yuv422> or after U7 was released?
[11:36:55] <Yuv422> I first played U6 on a XT with a monochrome hercules monitor. (green on black) ;)
[11:37:38] <Yuv422> I bought it because it was the only game in the store that would run on my primative hardware. ;)
[11:37:45] * Coren_ chuckles.
[11:38:00] <Coren_> I had an EGA then; so I got all 16 vibrant colors. :-)
[11:38:05] <Yuv422> I've still got the cloth map and rune stone.
[11:38:42] <Yuv422> the book is a bit worse for ware though :(
[11:38:55] <Yuv422> cool EGA. that was hightech
[11:39:06] <Yuv422> did you have an adlib audio card too?
[11:39:39] <Coren_> Nope; but I had my MT-32. :-)
[11:39:52] <Yuv422> ah. nice.
[11:40:00] <Coren_> A Roland LAPC1
[11:40:51] <Yuv422> I was disappointed to find a paper map in my martian dreams box when I opened it up. :(
[11:41:19] <Coren_> Republish? IIRC martian dreams originally had a cloth map too.
[11:41:35] <Yuv422> must have been.
[11:41:40] <Coren_> Though I wouldn't know for sure. I never bought the alternate worlds games.
[11:41:47] <Yuv422> I did get it for $15 AUD *g*
[11:42:00] <Yuv422> and it had 3.5" discs
[11:42:35] <Yuv422> I'm kicking myself for not buying savage empire that day too. :(
[11:42:55] <Yuv422> That was the last time I saw them for sale.
[11:43:47] <Coren_> Is martian dreams any good at all/
[11:43:49] <Coren_> ?
[11:43:57] <Yuv422> yeah a great game.
[11:44:24] <Yuv422> I like that space opera style.
[11:44:31] * Coren_ chuckles.
[11:44:36] <Yuv422> I think they did it well
[11:44:43] <Coren_> Never attracted me.
[11:45:08] <Yuv422> I must admit I like that retro sci-fi stuff alot. :)
[11:45:17] <Yuv422> better than modern sci-fi.
[11:46:10] <Coren_> For different values of 'retro', 'modern', 'sci-fi' and 'better'. :-)
[11:46:44] <Yuv422> that's another plus for rewriting U6 you get the worlds too.
[11:50:18] * Coren_ chuckles.
[11:50:54] <Coren_> You're probably one of those weird ones that watched Voyager so you could see the plot of 'Captain Proton' unfold from season to season? ;_)
[11:51:27] <Yuv422> never a big trek fan. red dwarf is more my style. ;)
[11:53:41] * Coren_ chuckles.
[11:54:05] <Coren_> I hate Red Dwarf.
[11:55:27] <Yuv422> :) each to their own.
[11:56:41] <Coren_> Indeed. THGTTG is more my style.
[12:01:36] <Yuv422> Ouch! Mozilla crashed. That doesn't happen very often. :(
[12:20:12] <Yuv422> I'm off to bed now guys. cya
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[13:28:01] <Colourless> Darke: your C++ FlexLexer poem, while amusing, isn't exactly useful for me :-)
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[13:28:15] <wjp> hi
[13:28:26] <Colourless> hi
[13:40:55] <Darke> Hi.
[13:41:01] <Darke> Colourless: No problem. *grin*
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[17:44:04] <wjp> funny, it seems I can't walk through doors anymore in current CVS
[17:44:13] <wjp> must have something to do with Jeff's rewritten blocking code :-)
[17:45:54] * Darke snickers. Perhaps.
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[17:54:35] <wjp> hi
[17:54:40] <Fingolfin> yo
[17:57:02] <Darke> HI.
[17:59:34] * wjp blinks at latest posts on the forum
[17:59:48] <wjp> why would the NTVDM be involved in running the exult 1.0 win32 installer?
[18:03:38] * Darke knows not, and goes to download the 1.0 installer to see if he can enlighten himself as to why not.
[18:04:12] <wjp> my guess is he got the SF download page saved as an .exe file
[18:04:34] <wjp> the code at IP is '65 63 74 20 61' = 'ect a' (from 'select a mirror'?)
[18:04:39] <wjp> (long shot, I know...)
[18:05:14] <Darke> Heh. Makes sense I suppose though.
[18:05:30] <wjp> I wonder if that string is really at offset 0x119 in the download page
[18:07:59] <Darke> Oh, BTW, flex 2.5.27 works fine. *grin* Still has the annoying warnings, but otherwise I've not noticed any real problems with it.
[18:08:45] <Matt_O> FLEX!!!
[18:09:09] <wjp> hi Matt_O :-)
[18:09:20] <Matt_O> wjp!! :)
[18:09:27] <Darke> Hi! *grin*
[18:09:41] <Matt_O> is it just me, or is flex and bison's documentation awful? hehe
[18:09:42] * Darke watches Matt_O *flex* his punctuation!
[18:09:56] <Matt_O> Darke *fluff* !
[18:09:59] <wjp> hm, there's a 'ect a' string in the installer at 0x9489
[18:10:22] <Darke> flex's documentation is amazingly better with the newer (non 1996) versions. *grin*
[18:12:20] <Matt_O> hmmm ... 'better' doesn't necessarily mean 'good' hehe
[18:14:10] <Darke> Honestly, do you think it could be *any* worse? *grin* It's also info pages now, which is not necessarily better, but it works.
[18:24:26] <wjp> looks like my guess was right... he executed the download page :-)
[18:28:07] * Darke cackles! That's just... well... impressive!
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