#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Feb 2010 (GMT)

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[00:01:23] <wepy> http://pastebin.ca/1797820
[00:01:30] <wepy> no..
[00:02:06] <Marzo> That could be the problem
[00:02:22] <Marzo> Also, out of curiosity: what does gcc --version return?
[00:02:56] <wepy> 3.3.5
[00:03:02] <wepy> (propolice)
[00:03:53] <wepy> ./autogen.sh[38]: test: an: unexpected operator/operand
[00:03:54] <wepy> Provide an AUTOMAKE_VERSION environment variable, please
[00:04:22] <wepy> I can define versions.. pain
[00:05:24] <Marzo> You need autoconf, automake and libtool to make Exult on unix-like systems
[00:05:55] <Marzo> Unless you want do be forced to define several dozen macros which are generated by it
[00:06:22] <wepy> configure: error: conditional "GCONF_SCHEMAS_INSTALL" was never defined.
[00:06:33] <wepy> I have them..
[00:06:55] <wepy> I got further along the autogen process after I defined the versions..but it stopped at the GCONF problem
[00:07:29] <Marzo> Hm, that shouldn't have been fatal
[00:07:37] <Marzo> Can you post the error log?
[00:07:52] <wepy> that is when I ran ./configure I think
[00:08:25] <wepy> yes..
[00:08:36] <Marzo> it should be ./configure.log
[00:08:44] <wepy> ok 1 sec
[00:08:48] <Marzo> (or ./config.log, I can never remember)
[00:12:37] <wepy> http://pastebin.ca/1797827
[00:12:40] <wepy> that's config.log
[00:16:00] <wepy> I just ran svn checkout.. but when I ran autogen a few weeks ago, it was OK
[00:17:21] <Marzo> Try this: in ./configure.ac, line 728, insert the following line:
[00:17:25] <Marzo> AM_CONDITIONAL(GCONF_SCHEMAS_INSTALL, false)
[00:18:18] <Marzo> (there were some changes in ./configure.ac; a properly configured automake system automatically picks up on that and reruns the appropriate tools)
[00:20:43] <wepy> same error..
[00:21:01] <Marzo> did you re-run autogen.sh?
[00:21:13] <wepy> it's in GIMP plugin.. i'll move that line down
[00:21:16] <wepy> no :)
[00:21:23] <wepy> sorry.. not so familiar with auto tools
[00:22:59] <wepy> OK that fixed configure
[00:23:28] <wepy> but the common_types.h problem is still there (I put it back though)
[00:23:34] <wepy> I'll force define EX_TYPE_INTPTR
[00:23:47] <Marzo> Send me the new config.log
[00:24:44] <Marzo> ./configure should be defining SIZEOF_INTP among others, which would make common_types.h work
[00:26:15] <wepy> http://www.pastebin.ca/1797837
[00:26:25] <wepy> i see
[00:27:11] <wepy> ./autom4te.cache/traces.1:m4trace:configure.ac:191: -1- AH_OUTPUT([SIZEOF_INTP], [/* The size of `int*\', a...
[00:27:38] <wepy> ./autom4te.cache/output.1:@%:@define SIZEOF_INTP $ac_cv_sizeof_intp
[00:29:25] <wepy> there are a few other hits for SIZEOF_INTP..
[00:29:33] <wepy> but I think those are the most relevant
[00:29:52] <wepy> traces.1 also has an #undef SIZEOF_INTP])
[00:31:05] <Marzo> Can you check if config.h exists and whether it has SIZEOF_INTP?
[00:31:23] <Marzo> (I am guessing: yes it exists, but no, SIZEOF_INTP is not in it)
[00:33:49] <wepy> config.h exists, but it doesn't have SIZEOF_INTP
[00:33:58] <wepy> though it has other SIZEOF_INT things ;)
[00:34:22] <Marzo> Right; in it, change SIZEOF_INT_ to SIZEOF_INTP
[00:34:46] <wepy> typo? ;)
[00:34:52] <wepy> _ is really close to P
[00:35:24] <wepy> so.. what is config.h compared to configure.ac?
[00:35:33] <wepy> which comes first?
[00:35:37] <Marzo> just try to compile after
[00:36:14] <Marzo> (no need to run ./autogen.sh or ./configure; they would only spoil what I just told you to try...)
[00:36:49] <wepy> also, on OpenBSD in the past I've always had to rm libtool; cp /usr/local/bin/libtool .
[00:37:10] <wepy> is there a way to make configure use my system's libtool?
[00:37:25] <Marzo> You know, if I were to guess at all I would have guessed you were on BSD
[00:37:51] <Marzo> It will take someone with more experience with BSD than me
[00:39:09] <wepy> do you run Linux?
[00:39:22] <wepy> I even tried to run ultima in freedos :(
[00:39:28] <Marzo> One Windows XP box, one Ubuntu box
[00:39:37] <wepy> but the memory management's still an issue
[00:39:44] <Marzo> In neither I ever had as much trouble compiling as people in BSD seem to have
[00:40:43] <Marzo> If you have access to Win98's DOS, you can make a kick-ass configuration with about 639KB (IIRC) of free conventional memory in most recent systems
[00:41:22] <Marzo> It will be far too fast, though
[00:41:48] <Marzo> DOSBox, on the other hand, works wonders, but it is demanding
[00:42:33] <Marzo> (I also tried in FreeDOS, but it never really worked well with Voodoo)
[00:42:45] <wepy> i wonder if dosbox can play Twinsen's odyssey
[00:42:54] <wepy> it's another old game that's good..
[00:43:13] <Marzo> They have a compatibility list in their site
[00:44:18] <Marzo> But the game isn't even in their list
[00:45:04] <Marzo> Actually, it is, under the original name
[00:45:12] <Marzo> Are you from Brazil, by any chance?
[00:45:17] <wepy> yea i see ultima 7
[00:45:35] <wepy> same shapevga.cc error
[00:45:45] <Marzo> Hm, now I see that in the US it also has that name
[00:46:24] <Marzo> Can you post the result of gcc --version? (if your compiler is GCC)
[00:47:08] <Marzo> Ah, nevermind, found it in the log
[00:47:23] <Marzo> That is old
[00:47:38] <wepy> no type "in" heh
[00:47:42] <Marzo> I am guessing this is the latest gcc for BSD?
[00:47:45] <wepy> it's gcc.. i'll paste
[00:48:08] <wepy> gcc (GCC) 3.3.5 (propolice)
[00:48:12] <wepy> then a copyright notice
[00:49:00] <Marzo> I know that it compiles with gcc 3.4.5, but I seem to recall now that template support in 3.3.x was really spotty.
[00:49:19] <Marzo> (it = Exult)
[00:49:38] <wepy> aw..
[00:49:53] <wepy> OpenBSD is considering a switch to pcc
[00:49:57] <wepy> the old BSD compiler
[00:50:02] <Marzo> It seems that the kind BSD folks decided to keep a broken version of GCC
[00:50:15] <wepy> they don't like gcc
[00:50:24] <Marzo> Seems that their motto is: "Broken by design!" :-)
[00:51:30] <Marzo> With that, I now officially remember why folks have so much trouble compiling Exult on BSD
[00:51:50] <wepy> hah
[00:52:08] <wepy> there aren't many developers, so it's hard to keep up with GNU in some ways
[00:52:11] <wepy> (I suppose)
[00:52:34] <wepy> Marzo: is there any way for me to fix a template issue like this without getting a newer gcc?
[00:52:49] <Marzo> Doubtful
[00:53:09] <wepy> can I use a binary?
[00:53:49] <Marzo> It would have to be from another BSD system with the exact same library versions you have
[00:54:26] <Marzo> BSD does not use the Linux kernel, so it can't be a Linux binary
[00:54:32] <wepy> actually..
[00:54:49] <wepy> it has a linux compatibility capability
[00:54:55] <wepy> but I need the linux libraries
[00:55:02] <Marzo> It might work in that case
[00:55:03] <wepy> there's a fedora-base set of libs
[00:55:37] <Marzo> I don't think I'd be able to help here as my system is 64-bit
[00:55:50] <wepy> so maybe I can use the fedora 1.2 rpm perhaps? then find the right SDL/timidity libs?
[00:55:56] <Marzo> (and, according to your config.log, yours is 32-bit)
[00:56:01] <wepy> yea..
[00:56:29] <Marzo> It is possible that the rmp works
[00:57:20] <Marzo> I'd recommend trying to grab a 1.4.x snapshot, but it doesn't seem likely as these distros don't like anything but release versions
[00:57:57] <wepy> there's no RPM for 1.4...
[00:58:01] <wepy> ah
[00:58:15] <wepy> yea there's no RPM
[00:59:43] <wepy> is there anyone who can build an RPM for it?
[01:00:53] <Marzo> BTW: it seems that there is some dissatisfaction with the BSD folks for not upgrading GCC, binutils and several other tools and "boneheadedly" insisting on using ancient versions of those and their own homebrew compiler (pcc)
[01:01:15] <wepy> not sure..
[01:01:37] <Marzo> ("PCC cannot seriously be considered. Its design is stuck in the seventies.(...)"
[01:02:06] <Marzo> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2009-January/002043.html
[01:02:46] <wepy> hah
[01:03:37] <Marzo> So yeah, it seems that "broken by design" does a fair good job of describing BSD if you want any software written recently
[01:04:48] <Marzo> (even Windows has GCC 4.x... how much further behind they want to be?)
[01:06:12] <Marzo> (maybe "crippled by design": matches better with some design decisions they make)
[01:06:19] <wepy> hehe
[01:06:21] <wepy> maybe..
[01:06:24] <Marzo> Sorry by not being very helpful
[01:06:34] <wepy> I just like how it works otherwise..
[01:06:38] <Marzo> But I am trying to amuse myself out of a horrible headache
[01:06:46] <wepy> but yea, compatibility with new linux software is bad ;\
[01:06:49] <wepy> I can't even run wine
[01:07:17] <wepy> but the ports/package system works well
[01:07:27] <wepy> and the system is very stable compared to linux
[01:07:35] <wepy> at least compared to the last linux I used hehe
[01:07:58] <wepy> and the tools are much more mature.. for instance, ifconfig works well with wifi/ethernet devices
[01:08:06] <wepy> and the drivers are well documented too..
[01:08:07] <Marzo> In over 3 years of using Ubuntu, I never had any stability issues
[01:08:21] <wepy> I hear Ubuntu's good.. I might try that
[01:08:28] <wepy> that uses apt-get right?
[01:08:44] <Marzo> With some new user interface software
[01:09:30] <Marzo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center
[01:09:39] <wepy> Last time I ran linux I had Gentoo and Centos.. bleh
[01:09:46] <wepy> Fedora was ok
[01:09:54] <Marzo> And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_package_manager
[01:11:01] <Marzo> So far, my experiences were RedHat (the ancient precursor to Fedora), Slackware in CoLinux and Ubuntu
[01:11:20] <Marzo> RedHat sucked, Slackware was OK and Ubuntu rocks :-)
[01:12:08] <Marzo> Well, there are some boneheaded decisions they make (such as not updating software between releases except for security reasons), but it is great otherwise
[01:14:55] <wepy> heh
[01:15:24] <wepy> nowadays everyone's virtual anywa
[01:15:30] <wepy> I should get w98..
[01:18:44] <Marzo> I have my doubts if U7 will work in a virtual machine
[01:19:32] <Marzo> The Voodoo memory manager uses a dirty trick to enable a nonstandard processor mode which doesn't work well in virtual machines
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[01:22:52] <wepy> hm
[01:23:11] <wepy> to make exult did you have to rewrite the game engine?
[01:23:20] <wepy> and then make it interpret the game's default data files?
[01:23:23] <Marzo> Exult is a new game engine
[01:23:27] <wepy> wow
[01:23:34] <wepy> how did you find out the format of the data files?
[01:23:34] <Marzo> It only uses the original data
[01:23:40] <Marzo> The hard way
[01:23:45] <wepy> hexdump?
[01:24:02] <Marzo> Hexediting, seeing what happened differently, etc
[01:24:07] <wepy> neat
[01:24:24] <wepy> can you write a completely new Ultima-like game with exult?
[01:24:32] <Marzo> Although a good chunk of the work had been done before I joined the team
[01:24:37] <Marzo> Yes
[01:24:45] <wepy> why hasn't anyone made a new game with it?
[01:24:50] <Marzo> We even have Exult Studio and UCC for it
[01:25:16] <Marzo> There have been a few mods (mostly by yours truly), but there are some folks doing far more
[01:26:04] <Marzo> There is a Savave Empires->Exult remake in progress, for example
[01:28:17] <wepy> savave empires?
[01:28:31] <Marzo> s/savave/savage
[01:29:01] <Marzo> It is an U6-engine-based game from the Ultima series
[01:30:36] <wepy> it would be nice to port exult to use crystal space 3D
[01:31:07] <wepy> neat
[01:31:15] <Marzo> It would also be overkill
[01:31:54] <wepy> but a wider audience would play maybe..
[01:32:16] <Marzo> I can't see what difference it would make
[01:32:36] <Marzo> It is not like U7 had 3d graphics, so it wouldn't be an attractive
[01:33:20] <wepy> did you play u9?
[01:33:29] <Marzo> Yes
[01:33:37] <wepy> i didn't like it :(
[01:33:42] <wepy> it was _ok_
[01:33:51] <Marzo> As far as Ultimas go, nobody did
[01:34:02] <wepy> but maybe it's possible to get u7 gameplay in 3d...
[01:34:02] <Marzo> As far as *games* in general go, some people liked it
[01:34:39] <Marzo> There was an Exult3D fork which aimed to do just that
[01:35:06] <Marzo> With several 3d models and a homebrew 3d engine
[01:35:28] <Marzo> There have been some attempts at resurrecting it
[01:36:07] <wepy> hm
[01:36:34] <wepy> maybe it's a matter of whether or not the game data format is worth preserving..
[01:36:44] <wepy> I suppose there are some newer structures that are better
[01:37:29] <Marzo> In many cases, we have already changed some file formats
[01:38:04] <Marzo> But the requirements of being able to play the original games with the original data make it hard to deviate too much from it without losing the primary purpose of Exult
[01:38:56] <wepy> yea
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[02:47:33] <wepy> dosbox works ;)
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[07:52:26] <servus> Any word on the new Exult3D stuff? I haven't been following that recently.
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[17:07:37] <Marzo> wepy: just to add insult to injury, I found out that even DOS has GCC 4.4 (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.msdos.djgpp/browse_thread/thread/50b4c6d2b3fb5a06)
[17:07:54] <Marzo> It would seem that the FreeBSD folks are bent on obsoleting the system...
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[19:24:13] <Malignant_Manor> About the Exult 3D question more than 10 hours ago, Exult 3D is only up to revision 6060 (out of 6142) with a few back ported fixes. It cannot be updated further by me because of quite a few changes to Open GL. No one with enough coding knowledge has attempted to update it further.
[19:25:33] <Malignant_Manor> Also, there is no tool to convert 3d images to the one used by Exult 3D. None of the people that had them, have supplied them.
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[21:01:43] <Dominus> wow, and I thought I had problems on os x...
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