#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Nov 2001 (GMT)

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[04:46:02] <Waz> ?logs
[04:46:02] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
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[09:01:26] <sbx> ?help
[09:01:31] <sbx> ?exult
[09:01:31] <exultbot> Exult is a project to create an Ultima 7 game engine that runs on modern operating systems, capable of using the data and graphics files that come with the game. See http://exult.sourceforge.net/ for more information.
[09:01:48] <sbx> ?exultbot
[09:01:48] <exultbot> Exultbot is written in Perl by Willem Jan Palenstijn.
[09:01:58] <sbx> ?version
[09:01:58] <exultbot> The latest official version of Exult is: 0.94alpha5
[09:02:01] <sbx> ?url
[09:02:01] <exultbot> The official Exult homepage is at: http://exult.sourceforge.net/
[09:02:08] <sbx> ?faq
[09:02:08] <exultbot> You can find the official FAQ at: http://exult.sourceforge.net/faq.php
[09:02:56] <sbx> ?homepage
[09:02:56] <exultbot> The official Exult homepage is at: http://exult.sourceforge.net/
[09:02:59] <sbx> ?ultima
[09:02:59] <exultbot> Ultima is an epic RPG game series created by Origin.
[09:03:09] <sbx> ?log
[09:03:09] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[09:03:31] <sbx> ?snapshot
[09:03:31] <exultbot> You can find daily windows snapshots at: http://exult.sourceforge.net/download.php
[09:03:42] <sbx> ?time
[09:03:42] <exultbot> It is now Fri Nov 16 09:03:42 2001 (GMT).
[09:03:45] <sbx> ?date
[09:03:45] <exultbot> It is now Fri Nov 16 09:03:45 2001 (GMT).
[09:04:19] <sbx> ?help
[09:04:34] <sbx> ?wjp
[09:04:42] <sbx> ?seen
[09:04:45] <sbx> ?seen wjp
[09:04:45] <exultbot> wjp left IRC around Thu Nov 15 23:32:50 2001 (GMT) ("[x]chat")
[09:04:47] <sbx> :-)
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[09:50:24] * SharpTooth bows. "Hi."
[09:50:49] * sbx bows. "Hi."
[09:51:23] <sbx> i was just playingExult
[09:52:18] <sbx> are you patrick burke?
[09:52:35] * SharpTooth is just grabbing the lastest exult from the cvs, and predicts that wjp will be on 'soon'.
[09:52:55] <SharpTooth> <bow> In another 'character' I am. <grin>
[09:53:51] <sbx> do you work on ucxt mostly?
[09:54:28] <SharpTooth> Mostly. I do occasinally fix a bug here or there, and verify others bugs.
[09:55:36] <sbx> do any of the tools correctly assemble usecode-assembly yet?
[09:59:08] <SharpTooth> The simplest answer is no. The closest to an assembler we have is wuc, and it is very sensitive to work with. <grin> As you no doubt have found out. Jeff's ucc compiler is currently broken, because it was written before the conversation opcodes were implemented 'correctly' in exult, so it needs to be fixed. And hopefully near when that occurs, ...
[09:59:37] <SharpTooth> ... I'll have ucxt working to the point where you can disassemble usecode-binary straight into the usecode-script language, so you can use the compiler on it.
[10:00:00] <sbx> whats the difference between ucxt and ucdump
[10:00:05] <sbx> ]oh
[10:00:29] <SharpTooth> What exactly are you wanting to do anyway? If you can code, it might be simpler to write something of your own that can turn the usecode-assembler output into a usecode binary file.
[10:01:21] <sbx> i dont think what i could code would be any better than the tools already there, but that is what i wanted to do basically :)
[10:02:07] <sbx> something like "dissassemble usecode function.txt; assemble function.txt" should be possible
[10:02:32] <sbx> but if its not now i can wait till the assembler/compiler is improved
[10:03:43] <sbx> heh that is what i tried to do
[10:04:02] <sbx> i did wud and then tried to put its output back in with wuc
[10:04:18] <sbx> <:-)
[10:05:18] <SharpTooth> <grin> That's what wud/wuc _should_ do. However it doesn't seem to work at the moment.
[10:06:26] <sbx> if i thought i could help with *anything*, it would have to be the tools, because I don't know C++
[10:06:38] <sbx> and they are in C arent they?
[10:07:41] <sbx> ?seen exultbot
[10:07:41] <exultbot> That's me!
[10:09:50] <SharpTooth> <nod> wuc/wud are in C. ucxt is written in C++. <grin> The usecode-script, is a C-like language.
[10:10:40] <SharpTooth> IMNSHO, if you can write in C, you can write in C++ with a bit of effort/guessing. <grin> It's how I learnt it.
[10:10:45] <sbx> yeah i mean the things in tools
[10:10:55] <sbx> erm no
[10:11:10] <sbx> i already tried guessing what the exult code meant ;-)
[10:12:26] <sbx> you have to know the advanced C++ concepts, and the keywords, and the formatting looks like C with a bunch of extraneous characters thrown in
[10:12:28] <SharpTooth> <grin> The exult code is somewhat non-trivial to understand. You should try something just a bit smaller. I wouldn't recommend ucxt either, since it's just plain convoluted, but you're free to poke around with it.
[10:12:57] <sbx> ive looked at gamewin.cc and schedule.cc and exult.cc and the headers
[10:13:04] <sbx> exult.cc i barely understand
[10:13:07] <SharpTooth> Do you use a keyword highlighting editor?
[10:13:19] <sbx> yes
[10:13:25] <sbx> well usually
[10:13:31] <SharpTooth> Start with the smaller directories, like conf/* which houses the 'xml' configuration file stuff.
[10:13:33] <sbx> i was just looking at these with 'less'
[10:14:00] <SharpTooth> <nod> Colour hightlighting (IMHO) really makes C++ code easier to understand, especially if you're learning.
[10:14:12] <sbx> hrmm i think i dont want to learn C++ just yet lol
[10:14:50] <sbx> examining how exult ticks is interesting though
[10:15:10] <sbx> i think even Max aka Moscow Dragon is impressed
[10:16:07] <SharpTooth> I'm impressed with exult, and I dig through it's internals regularly. <grin>
[10:16:36] <sbx> if i can ask, where are all the business activities? in the schedule.cc i just saw bake and sew and lab and forge and some walking around stuff
[10:20:50] * sbx performs street maintenance.
[10:20:57] --- sbx is now known as SB-X
[10:21:33] <SB-X> "This need not be on!"
[10:21:41] <SB-X> "There. 'Tis better!"
[10:21:42] <SharpTooth> Hmm... I'm not sure where they are, I would have thought they would have been in schedule.cc...
[10:22:20] <SB-X> maybe they are but i cant comprehend the file good enough :-)
[10:22:52] <SB-X> have you noticed how the populace of Britannia suffers chronic back problems?
[10:23:02] <SB-X> "Oh my aching back"
[10:25:14] <SharpTooth> With a quick look, it seems that most schedules are in there. <grin> And yes, I have noticed their back problems. Perhaps they need to invent ergonomic chairs.
[10:26:02] <SB-X> that reminds me, were the chairs in Skara Brae and the blacksmiths shop in trinsic supposed to move?
[10:27:18] <SB-X> thanks for looking
[10:27:52] <SB-X> ill have to improve my skills to read it further
[10:28:52] <SharpTooth> No problem. And I don't know if those chairs are supposed to move, I haven't played U7 under dos in quite a while. <grin>
[10:29:47] <SB-X> hopefully they are, otherwise either exult has a bug or my computer is haunted :-)
[10:31:11] <SB-X> any idea what the origin peeps used to make the usecode?
[10:38:22] <SB-X> ?seen SharpTooth
[10:38:22] <exultbot> sharptooth is right here!
[10:38:26] * SB-X gives SharpTooth a carrot.
[10:45:17] <SharpTooth> It would have been some sort of script like language (from the looks of it like basic or shell scrips), and they would have used a compiler to translate it into binary usecode.
[10:45:25] * SharpTooth is a bit idle surprisingly enough. <grin>
[10:48:48] * SB-X grins.
[10:48:59] <SB-X> i have another question, where is bgintrinsics.h?
[10:50:11] <SB-X> included in uctools.h
[10:53:03] <SharpTooth> Under usecode/ IIRC.
[10:54:09] <SB-X> thank you
[11:00:56] <SB-X> ?logs
[11:00:56] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
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[11:41:14] <SB-X> SharpTooth: are you good with maths?
[11:43:46] <SB-X> nevermind i got it :D
[11:43:54] <SB-X> ?seen wjp
[11:43:54] <exultbot> wjp left IRC around Thu Nov 15 23:32:50 2001 (GMT) ("[x]chat")
[11:57:27] * SharpTooth hmms... and should probably try to be less idle.
[12:03:27] * SB-X gives SharpTooth a carrot.
[12:12:42] * SharpTooth thankfulfluffs and nibbles on the carrot.
[12:24:07] <SB-X> ?date
[12:24:07] <exultbot> It is now Fri Nov 16 12:24:07 2001 (GMT).
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[12:44:51] <Colourless> hello all my loyal subjects ;-)
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[12:48:55] <SB-X> hello Lord Colorless... uh Colourless
[12:49:57] <Colourless> you be careful
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[16:12:55] * SharpTooth listens to the crickets chirping. Quiet 'night' today.
[16:13:08] <Colourless> aye
[16:16:12] <SB-X> :-)
[16:21:08] <SharpTooth> For those who feel like cringing, an "Attack of the Clones" trailer: http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/forbidden/index.html <cringe>
[16:21:31] <Colourless> i think i'll pass
[16:21:59] * SharpTooth 's current mantra is "I'm so _glad_ there isn't a version of QuickTime for Linux." <shudderfluff>
[16:22:07] <SB-X> i dont have QT
[16:22:16] <SB-X> heh
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[17:05:44] <wjp> hi
[17:05:51] <Colourless> hi
[17:05:53] <SharpTooth> Hi. <bow>
[17:13:02] <SB-X> hi
[17:19:58] * SharpTooth bows. "Night all."
[17:20:05] <wjp> night
[17:20:06] <Colourless> cya
[17:20:44] <SB-X> bye
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[17:51:44] <Colourless> sigh. the Serpent Isle map is annoying. I've been implimenting Ice Dungeon Rendering and due to the way the map was construted around the 320x200 res limit, there are rendering errors everywhere in higher res's
[17:52:07] <wjp> there was a problem with ice dungeon rendering?
[17:52:34] <Colourless> yeah, we didn't do it :-)
[17:53:29] <wjp> we didn't?
[17:53:35] * wjp takes a peek
[17:53:38] <Colourless> nope.
[17:53:54] <wjp> never noticed that :-)
[17:56:29] * SB-X never got that far in SI so wouldn't notice anyway.
[17:56:29] <Colourless> :-)
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[18:13:27] <SB-X> does high fps use more CPU?
[18:13:33] <SB-X> 10
[18:13:45] <Colourless> no idea. probably, but not much
[18:14:22] <SB-X> why is it an option?
[18:15:02] <SB-X> what do you think optimum fps is?
[18:15:13] <Colourless> speeds up walking i think
[18:15:20] <SB-X> oh... i cant tell the difference :-)
[18:15:46] <Colourless> it's up to you
[18:15:49] <SB-X> but i havnt used highest much yet
[18:16:03] <SB-X> ok thanks
[18:17:10] <Colourless> i can notice the difference
[18:19:02] <SB-X> me too since you told me what the difference is
[18:19:20] <SB-X> i just noticed a typo too: Switching to fullcsreen mode.
[18:27:30] <SB-X> OMG! hehe
[18:27:44] <Colourless> what?
[18:27:44] <SB-X> telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
[18:28:57] <Colourless> eh
[18:29:34] <SB-X> someone had too much time on their hands
[18:30:00] <Colourless> that thing has been around for a while
[18:30:24] <SB-X> i just found out about it from http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=810&t=810
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[18:37:48] <Dominus> hi
[18:38:04] <Colourless> hi
[18:39:03] <Dominus> Colourless: I just had a thought on the windows installer
[18:39:41] <Colourless> yes
[18:39:45] <Dominus> you allow people to either enter the paths to the games when installing or afterwards
[18:39:56] <Dominus> by executing install again, right?
[18:40:03] <Colourless> yeah
[18:40:17] <Dominus> how about adding the same options for the sound packs
[18:40:18] <Dominus> ?
[18:40:21] <SB-X> hi Dominus
[18:40:46] <Dominus> with some explanation where to download those packs from
[18:41:00] <Colourless> well, the sound packs aren't standard so I'm hesitant to do it
[18:41:54] <Dominus> I know, but having it oprional and saying this at install that it is OPTIONAL :-) might help with people reporting sfx does not work :-)
[18:42:25] <Dominus> after your install program there was a definite decrease of people having problems with the paths
[18:42:48] <Dominus> maybe this will help decreasing thos unnecessary pleas for help
[18:45:16] <Colourless> adding in the sfx stuff would be pretty difficult really.
[18:45:43] <SB-X> moreso than adding <waves></waves> to the config file :-)
[18:45:50] <Dominus> another approach would be a logic test in Exult itself that it wonīt allow enabling the sfx without a pack specified and really checking if there is one
[18:46:34] <SB-X> you can use sfx without a sound pack i thought
[18:46:53] <Dominus> SB-X: no you canīt!
[18:47:13] * Dominus mutters unless you re-enable sfx through midi
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[18:47:33] <Dominus> but that has been scratched as it proved to difficult to support
[18:47:39] <SB-X> i forgot it had been disabled
[18:49:10] <Dominus> Colourless: itīs not really important, I just wanted to ask if it was possible BEFORE we do a beta release
[18:50:06] <Colourless> it would pushing it.
[18:50:19] <Colourless> ...would BE pushing...
[18:51:30] <Dominus> it's your call
[18:52:01] * Dominus apologizes to SB-X that he used the wrong apostroph again before :-)
[18:53:11] <SB-X> heh no problem!
[18:54:37] <Dominus> ok, I just wanted to hop in for a second and ask Colourless that. Have to go again :-)
[18:54:40] <Dominus> bye
[18:54:47] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")
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[19:10:25] <wjp> SB-X: I just fixed the 'fullcsreen' typo. thanks
[19:12:11] <SB-X> cool
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[19:19:36] <wjp> hi
[19:19:37] <Nadir> hi
[19:19:48] <Colourless> hi
[19:19:50] <Nadir> I was reading the logs...
[19:19:51] <SB-X> hi
[19:20:19] <Nadir> ...and noticed that Dominus mentioned something that I really wanted to implement...
[19:20:55] <Nadir> ...disabling the sound effects option when it is not possible to produce sfx
[19:22:05] <Nadir> ...and a nice visible icon to show next to the BG/SI entries in the Exult menu informing the user that sfx are/aren't available
[19:24:21] <SB-X> a tiny megaphone?
[19:25:01] <SB-X> with sound waves coming out of it :-)
[19:25:22] <Nadir> yep
[19:25:39] <Nadir> willing to draw one using the Exult menu's palette ?
[19:26:42] <SB-X> willing: yes, able: no but i can copy another one and convert it heh
[19:31:37] <SB-X> what kinda things are you guys gonna implement before Beta if i may ask?
[19:51:36] <wjp> before beta? hmm, not much, I guess
[19:53:35] <SB-X> i see
[19:54:06] <wjp> (since Jeff wants to go beta next week :-) )
[19:54:58] <SB-X> maybe Colourless have SI ice dungeons by then? :-)
[19:55:09] <Colourless> yeah easy
[19:55:43] <wjp> I might implement keyboard shortcuts for spells
[20:56:37] <Colourless> i should leave
[20:56:41] <SB-X> :-|
[20:56:49] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("bed")
[20:56:58] <SB-X> :-(
[20:58:32] <SB-X> Nadir
[21:01:33] <SB-X> did you make that icon you mentioned yet?
[21:31:15] <Nadir> nope
[21:32:26] <Nadir> gotta go
[21:32:27] <Nadir> bye
[21:32:30] <wjp> bye
[21:32:31] <SB-X> bye
[21:32:45] <-- Nadir has left IRC ("Pleasant dreams, Avatar... hehehehehe")
[21:33:08] <wjp> hmm, I wonder what an SFX icon should look like
[21:33:13] <SB-X> i made him an icon but i dunno if he will like it :-)
[21:33:21] <wjp> can I see?
[21:34:23] <SB-X> im not sure what an SFX icon looks like either
[21:34:37] <wjp> hmm, is it supposed to be orange?
[21:34:42] <SB-X> no
[21:34:47] <wjp> thought so :-)
[21:34:48] <SB-X> it uses exult0.pal
[21:34:51] * wjp extracts the right palette
[21:35:09] <wjp> oh, we have our own palette?
[21:35:22] <SB-X> hehe
[21:35:42] <SB-X> frame 0 does not have red "sound lines(tm)" in case you think those are ugly or something
[21:35:44] <wjp> much better :-)
[21:36:11] <wjp> (ie. blue looks a lot better than orange :-) )
[21:36:17] <SB-X> yes it is supposed to match the menu
[21:36:49] <wjp> hmm, looks like exult0.pal is only half-used
[21:37:06] <wjp> no, a lot less than that, actually
[21:37:21] <SB-X> 4 colors?
[21:37:29] <SB-X> i dont remember how many colors it is
[21:37:39] <SB-X> but such a small graphic doesn't need many
[21:37:45] <wjp> no, I meant the palette itself
[21:37:59] <SB-X> oh
[21:38:18] <wjp> you know... we also need a paperdoll icon ;-)
[21:39:31] <SB-X> hmm
[21:39:39] <SB-X>   o
[21:39:42] <SB-X> >-|-<
[21:39:47] <SB-X>  / \
[21:39:49] <wjp> lol
[21:39:49] <SB-X> there :P
[21:40:03] <wjp> maybe add a sword? ;-)
[21:40:30] <wjp> \  o
[21:40:33] <wjp>  >-|-<
[21:40:38] <wjp>   / \
[21:41:13] <SB-X> you took my idea :-)
[21:41:23] <wjp> :-)
[21:48:55] <SB-X> v           /|  o
[21:48:58] <SB-X> | /         \|>-|-<
[21:49:03] <SB-X> o|--===        / \
[21:49:07] <SB-X>   \             /\________
[21:49:11] <SB-X>  /\_______     |_Avatar!?_|
[21:49:14] <SB-X> |__Ooof!__|
[21:49:17] <SB-X>
[21:49:29] <wjp> LOL
[21:49:41] <wjp> let me guess... Iolo? :-)
[21:49:49] * SB-X nods. ;-)
[21:50:56] <wjp> maybe I should put some <pre> tags around these things in exultbot's logs
[21:52:22] * SB-X shrugs.
[21:52:27] <SB-X> the log looks like abstract art
[21:55:50] <wjp> there, that's better
[21:59:31] <SB-X> "There, 'Tis better!"
[22:00:11] <SB-X> but you couldve just made everything in the log view get put inside <pre></pre>
[22:00:27] <SB-X> nevermind i dont know how it works
[22:06:59] <wjp> I have to go
[22:07:01] <wjp> g'night
[22:07:09] <SB-X> good night
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[22:45:48] <Nadir> b
[22:47:20] <Nadir> SB-X: I believe you have a SFX icon for me :)
[22:48:50] <SB-X> hi
[22:49:15] <SB-X> i guess, if you think its ok...
[22:49:24] <Nadir> send it over
[22:51:55] <Nadir> hmm, maybe the "waves" should be blue as well
[22:51:59] <Nadir> but it looks good
[22:53:04] <SB-X> ok thanks
[22:53:32] <SB-X> it is 2 frames
[22:54:05] <Nadir> ah
[22:55:07] <Nadir> hmm, maybe frame 0 should be with a red cross over it and frame 1 with blue "waves" as I said earlier
[22:55:22] <Nadir> the paperdoll one would be good too
[22:55:36] <matto|wookin> hey nadir
[22:55:46] <Nadir> matto|wookin: hi
[22:56:20] <SB-X> if frame0==disable and frame1==enable that is a good idea :-)
[22:56:42] <SB-X> but red cross is from game graphics isnt it?
[22:56:56] <Nadir> why do you say that ?
[22:57:01] <SB-X> nm i wasnt thinking
[22:57:02] <SB-X> hehe
[23:10:04] <Nadir> compiling...
[23:12:12] <Nadir> bugfixing...
[23:12:43] <Nadir> compiling...
[23:14:09] <SB-X> i made a second icon with small red x over frame zero(from pointers), and dark blue lines(maybe too dark)
[23:15:38] <Nadir> checking
[23:16:05] <Nadir> looks good
[23:17:04] <SB-X> yay
[23:17:10] <SB-X> heh
[23:17:33] <Nadir> paperdoll ?
[23:18:04] <SB-X> hmm
[23:18:19] <SB-X> a cutesie icon would be to use blonde avatar's head
[23:18:26] <SB-X> extremely shrunken version
[23:18:28] * SB-X shrugs.
[23:18:46] <Nadir> we'd need to change exult0.pal to have good colours for it
[23:19:50] <SB-X> where would a paperdoll icon go?
[23:20:02] <Nadir> exult menu. next to sfx icon
[23:20:24] <Nadir> (to show that Exult will use paperdolls, because it has found SI)
[23:20:25] <SB-X> does each game item have a sfx icon? only need 1 paperdoll icon
[23:21:48] <SB-X> suggestion: since sfx icon is 18pixels tall you can put 1 by each game name, but since you either have paperdolls or not, you only need 1 icon somewhere on the screen
[23:22:25] <Nadir> yes, because SI will always have paperdolls
[23:23:15] <SB-X> people using it should know you can't have paperdolls without SI :)
[23:23:21] <Nadir> :)
[23:23:35] <Nadir> it's ok. I will finish it up tomorrow and commit it.
[23:23:51] <Nadir> I need to add you to the credits. Who are you ?
[23:23:52] <SB-X> did you put in anything to CVS today?
[23:23:56] <Nadir> nope
[23:24:10] <SB-X> you dont need to add me I just made a silly icon
[23:24:19] <Nadir> yes I do
[23:25:04] <SB-X> hmm SB-X or Joseph Applegate my alter ego
[23:25:06] <SB-X> or both
[23:25:11] * SB-X shrugs.
[23:25:45] <Nadir> done
[23:26:25] * SB-X bows.
[23:26:28] <SB-X> thanks!
[23:26:49] <Nadir> going now. see you
[23:26:54] <SB-X> bye
[23:26:58] <-- Nadir has left IRC ("Pleasant dreams, Avatar... hehehehehe")
[23:41:54] <SB-X> bye matto|wookin
[23:41:57] <SB-X> exultbot: bye
[23:41:57] <exultbot> goodbye!
[23:42:02] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("...")
[23:48:55] --> Waz has joined #exult
[23:49:39] <matto|wookin> Waz up!
[23:49:46] <Waz> hey matto
[23:49:48] <Waz> :)