#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Sep 2003 (GMT)

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[02:20:25] <Zxcvb> anyone alive in here?
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[03:27:02] <Zxcvb_> anyone up?
[03:35:36] <Zxcvb_> does anyone know why the time stop spell won't work?
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[13:39:26] <Colourless> hi
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[15:44:01] <artaxerxes> hi all
[15:44:12] <wjp> hi
[15:44:18] <Colourless> hi
[15:44:20] <Colourless> wb
[15:44:25] <artaxerxes> thx! ;-)
[15:44:34] <artaxerxes> I've been kinda zombying
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[15:45:41] <artaxerxes> you guys have a clue about the beta3 release? I'm gonna be on holidays starting the 4th of Octobre and my port is still lingering on my hd
[15:46:32] <Colourless> octobre what strange month is that
[15:46:56] <wjp> dunno, never heard of it
[15:46:57] <artaxerxes> ah... french spelling....
[15:46:59] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[15:47:02] <wjp> :-)
[15:47:10] <Colourless> we speak english here, not french
[15:47:14] <artaxerxes> ...like colorless. ;-)
[15:47:25] * artaxerxes is gonna get kicked any minute
[15:47:56] <-- artaxerxes was kicked from #exult by wjp (if you insist :-))
[15:48:05] <Colourless> keep you american basardizations of the english language away form this place :-)\
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[15:48:35] <artaxerxes> well, I was expecting it from Colourless! ;-)
[15:48:49] <Colourless> keep you american basardizations of the english language away form this place :-)\
[15:49:04] <wjp> Colourless: and you didn't even correct the typo? :-)
[15:49:10] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[15:49:16] <artaxerxes> bastardisation!!!!!
[15:51:05] <artaxerxes> anyhoo... about that beta3 release, what's left to be done?
[15:51:14] <wjp> dunno
[15:51:24] <wjp> it kind of got stalled by some bad bugs
[15:51:36] <artaxerxes> hey did you people notice the CVS problem with sf lately?
[15:51:46] <wjp> there's an SF CVS problem?
[15:51:59] <wjp> anon or devel?
[15:52:07] <artaxerxes> anon
[15:52:28] <artaxerxes> was trying to get the latest dosbox and it just wouldn't work
[15:53:33] <artaxerxes> I cleared my .cvspass and triple-checked my command and it just died. Several bug report could be found in alexandria (SF's project page for SF)
[15:53:45] <wjp> seems to work here, albeit slowly
[15:53:53] <artaxerxes> that was a few days ago
[15:54:05] <wjp> there was a cvs server crash 6 days ago
[15:54:15] <artaxerxes> ugh
[15:54:30] <wjp> or rather, it was fixed 6 days ago
[15:54:35] <artaxerxes> also did you heard about the latest 0-day SSH remote exploit
[15:54:48] <artaxerxes> (from today)?
[15:54:50] <wjp> yes
[15:55:05] <wjp> it's on /., anyway
[15:55:37] <Colourless> slashdotcomma never heard of it
[15:55:56] <wjp> probably redirects to sitefinder.verisign :-)
[15:56:20] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[15:57:02] <artaxerxes> kinda fun though to call it slashdot... I use ./ much more often that /.
[15:57:38] <artaxerxes> s/that/than/
[15:58:54] <wjp> dosbox cvs update (and compile) completed successfully
[16:02:55] <artaxerxes> still not working
[16:02:57] <artaxerxes> I get
[16:03:05] <artaxerxes> cvs [checkout aborted]: reading from server: Connection reset by peer
[16:03:10] <wjp> just try again, then
[16:03:13] <wjp> that's quite normal to get
[16:03:27] <artaxerxes> now it works...
[16:03:37] <artaxerxes> I removed the -z3 and it works
[16:04:01] <wjp> coincidence
[16:04:15] <artaxerxes> ah
[16:04:26] <artaxerxes> those guys did a tremendous job though
[16:05:16] <artaxerxes> weird to se win32 files in dosbox!
[16:06:04] <wjp> heh, interesting article on slashdot... apparently downloading music for private use is legal in canada :-)
[16:06:36] <wjp> (because of legislation passed because of lobbying by the music industry, ironically)
[16:07:18] <artaxerxes> I'm glad I live there!
[16:07:28] <artaxerxes> (although I don't d/l music)
[16:08:23] <wjp> uhh... hmmm... "A small levy on storage media, say a penny a megabyte, would..."
[16:08:30] <wjp> that's a _small_ levy?!
[16:09:49] <artaxerxes> $7 for a CD!
[16:10:22] <wjp> $45 for a dvd :-)
[16:10:59] <wjp> if storage media includes harddisks, $400 for a 'small' 40Gb HD :-)
[16:12:10] <artaxerxes> crazy, eh?
[16:12:41] <wjp> ah well, it was just a comment on the side in the article
[16:19:51] <artaxerxes> I've worked more on my new NPC. The character has now a back and it is shown when walking north and east
[16:26:35] <wjp> that helps :-)
[16:35:24] <artaxerxes> it's amazing how much work there is in producing even one NPC
[16:35:52] <artaxerxes> I'm really feeling total respect for the team who produced BG/SI.
[16:36:15] <wjp> yes.. designing and actually creating such huge worlds is quite an accomplishment
[16:36:37] <Colourless> the u8 team had it 'easy'
[16:36:46] <artaxerxes> do we know how many people were in those teams?
[16:36:52] <artaxerxes> and how long they worked?
[16:36:57] <Colourless> they 3d rendered their sprites :-)
[16:37:07] <Colourless> of course we know
[16:37:09] <wjp> a fairly complete list of people is in the credits
[16:37:13] <artaxerxes> could you details what you mean Colourless ?
[16:37:14] <Colourless> cue the credits :-)
[16:37:34] <artaxerxes> how'bout length?
[16:37:40] <wjp> how long they worked.. not sure
[16:37:58] <Colourless> usually it works like this. one game finished, begin the next
[16:38:16] <artaxerxes> when I think they got paid for it!
[16:38:27] <Colourless> with some preliminary work (usually programming) done while the first game is still being made
[16:38:28] <artaxerxes> sure is a nice motivation
[16:38:51] <artaxerxes> Colourless: could you detail what you said about 3d rendering?
[16:39:06] <Colourless> the sprite in ultima 8 were created in 3d studio as 3d models
[16:39:31] <Colourless> the were then rendered from all 8 (or 5 + mirrored) views for each frame
[16:39:32] <wjp> they definitely have a "3d" look
[16:39:50] <artaxerxes> are they in 8 bit format?
[16:40:00] <wjp> (as in, way-too-correct gradients and reflections in places)
[16:40:05] <Colourless> this allowed them to have a really excessive number of frames for the avatar (in excess of 1200)
[16:40:07] <wjp> yes, 8 bit
[16:40:20] <artaxerxes> wao
[16:40:24] <wjp> I assume they were higher colour originally
[16:40:38] <artaxerxes> I'm still battling with the Gimp to make Marie Curie walk!
[16:40:41] <Colourless> they would have been 24 bit
[16:40:54] <wjp> yeah, easiest format to work with :-)
[16:41:22] <artaxerxes> I must admit I'm a bit behind when we are talking about more-than-8-bit colours
[16:41:28] <Colourless> i've actually got the original pyros model here. can download it from denis loubets site. also got the avatar too
[16:41:37] <Colourless> or more specifically 'had' the avatar
[16:41:41] <Colourless> i think it's gone missing
[16:42:04] <artaxerxes> so there is one palette for the whole game, a la u7?
[16:42:18] <Colourless> yes. ultima 8 only had 1 palette
[16:42:27] <artaxerxes> nice.
[16:42:48] <wjp> creating such a palette is a moderately interesting task
[16:42:50] <artaxerxes> I know how hard it is to make a palette from scratch that covers pretty much all the colours you need. It never does!
[16:43:14] <wjp> one way is probably to start with everything in 24bpp
[16:43:15] <artaxerxes> I've made one for Century and that's the one I've used for Marie Curie but I constantly adjust it
[16:43:18] <Colourless> usually the way you do things is this. create all your source art exactly as you want
[16:43:27] <wjp> and then somehow generate a global palette from that
[16:43:33] <wjp> and reduce all art to that palette
[16:43:35] <Colourless> then put all the relevant stuff into 1 image and then autogen a palette from them
[16:43:39] <wjp> (and manually touch up afterwards)
[16:43:55] * artaxerxes is hearing double! ;-)
[16:44:06] <Colourless> :-)
[16:44:48] * artaxerxes wonders is making new characters should be done a la u8 then
[16:44:51] <wjp> you had it in march 2001 according to the logs :-)
[16:45:01] <artaxerxes> ?logs
[16:45:01] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[16:45:18] <wjp> I googled for the model and the logs came up, to be specific :-)
[16:45:50] <artaxerxes> you know what day?
[16:46:09] <wjp> closed the window already
[16:46:16] * wjp tries again
[16:46:19] <wjp> 29 march
[16:46:24] <wjp> (2001)
[16:47:40] <wjp> try http://www.io.com/~dloubet/3dstudio/meshes/avatar.zip
[16:48:58] <artaxerxes> wjp: I hope you'll take you site with you when/if you leave leidenuniv.nl!
[16:49:21] <wjp> oh, I'll most likely be there for another 4 to 5 years
[16:49:26] <artaxerxes> so many times I've seen university pages from students haunting the web
[16:49:29] <wjp> (if all goes well :-) )
[16:49:55] <wjp> and I can get a phd position and all that :-)
[16:50:40] <wjp> if not... well... I'd rather not think about that :-)
[16:51:01] <artaxerxes> Dr. Wjp... reminds me of Exult's lead! ;-)
[16:52:27] <Colourless> that avatar.zip from loubet's site isn't the same one that i originally had
[16:52:54] <Colourless> that's a 3d studio project file. the one that he originally had up was just a 3ds file
[16:53:22] <Colourless> i can't load the prj, but i could load the 3ds. And of course, i've long lost the 3ds file as far as I know
[16:55:05] <Colourless> ah well, doesn't really matter. the original modes have excessively high polygon counts, so their usefulnes is.... limited
[16:55:19] <Colourless> of course, the avatar mode did come with some textures, which oddly enough, i still do have :-)
[16:55:59] <wjp> s/mode/model/ ? (twice?)
[16:56:10] <Colourless> yes
[16:57:08] <wjp> almost afraid I was lacking even more 3d terminology than I thought :-)
[17:09:14] <artaxerxes> you guys know of free software similar in concept to 3d studio?
[17:09:49] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[17:09:51] <wjp> maybe blender?
[17:09:54] <artaxerxes> bon appetit
[17:10:01] <artaxerxes> will have a look
[17:11:27] <Colourless> there is a free version of 3d studio out there, but it's not full function, and has watermarks and all sort of irritants
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[18:06:21] <artaxerxes> btw, for exult, there is a colour that's translucide, isn't it?
[18:06:31] <artaxerxes> the one used for the glass stuff
[18:06:43] <Colourless> yes
[18:06:55] <artaxerxes> does it have to be at a special place in the palette? that's how it is recognized?
[18:07:28] <Colourless> i... can't remember exactly how u7 engine xforms are handled
[18:07:49] <Colourless> for u7 the last 8 colours are the transparent ones
[18:12:08] <wjp> u8?
[18:12:22] <Colourless> what about it?
[18:12:47] <wjp> or were those last two statements far apart in time?
[18:12:54] <wjp> (they kind of contradict eachother :-) )
[18:13:16] <Colourless> ok, that wasn't entirely clear what i intended to say
[18:13:37] <Colourless> i can't remember if the xform numbers were hard coded into u7
[18:13:44] <Colourless> but i know what the colours are
[18:13:49] <wjp> ah, ok :-)
[18:14:13] <Colourless> in u8 though. it does appear the xform numbers are hard coded as far as i can tell
[18:52:53] <Lord_Nightmare> Colourless: how goes the sysex stuff?
[18:53:23] <Colourless> haven't looked at it
[18:53:39] <Lord_Nightmare> darn
[18:55:57] <Lord_Nightmare> i can point toward which file in scummvm handles mt32 sysex stuff, if that would help...
[18:56:29] <Colourless> not really required
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[20:35:31] <wjp> hm, I have to get up just a bit early tomorrow, so I should be going.. *sigh*
[20:35:37] <wjp> night
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[21:05:45] <artaxerxes> gotta go too
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[21:42:07] <Zxcvb> is anyone here?
[22:10:57] <Lord_Nightmare> yes
[22:14:56] <Zxcvb> any idea why time stop and imbalance don't work?
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[22:31:01] <Zxcvb> armav: do you have any idea why time stop and imbalance don't work?
[22:32:07] <armav> sorry, i don't
[22:32:23] <armav> i'm not a developer
[22:32:54] <Zxcvb> oh well, apparently weather can prevent the anti-magic dust just as well
[22:33:35] <armav> maybe you could ask on the forums
[22:36:01] <Zxcvb> I did
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