#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 17 Jan 2002 (GMT)

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[02:36:31] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
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[05:15:59] <Amy> Whee.
[05:23:40] <Amy> Hallooo?
[05:33:45] <Kirben> Hi
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[05:40:30] <Darke> Hello.
[05:41:39] <Kirben> Hi Darke
[05:42:34] <Kirben> See my last message on mailing list ?
[05:44:15] <Kirben> I'm just curious to what that code actually does, I can't believe that libglade autoconnect was fixed so easily.
[05:49:24] * Darke boggles.
[05:49:48] <Darke> That's an extremely easy fix... I'd love to know why it works.
[05:50:32] <Kirben> me too
[05:51:59] <Kirben> in meantime would it be safe to submit ?
[05:52:59] <Kirben> to remove that ugly hack
[05:54:43] <Amy> Wheeee.
[05:56:49] * Amy builds snapshot.
[05:56:52] <Amy> Time for my second run.
[05:56:59] <Amy> At testing estudio, that is.
[05:57:24] <Kirben> Amy: does exult studio ever crash for you ?
[06:09:21] <Amy> Frequently.
[06:10:14] <Kirben> Thats good to know, at leasts its not just win32.
[06:13:06] <Amy> It's pretty unstable.
[06:13:13] <Amy> Jeff asked me to run it under GDB, but I don't know how.
[06:15:25] * Amy vows to harm Jeff.
[06:15:50] <Amy> Is there a way to do a recursive touch?
[06:16:03] <Kirben> gdb exult_studio I think
[06:16:13] <Kirben> to use gdb
[06:17:07] * Amy nods.
[06:21:58] <Darke> Kirben: (commit) It should be safe to commit, if you haven't done so already.
[06:22:11] <Kirben> ok
[06:24:41] <Darke> Amy: Recursive touch, `find . -exec touch {} \;` should work, but untested.
[06:25:09] <Darke> (Starting in the appropriate directory of course.)
[06:28:24] <Darke> Also for gdb, you execute gdb with `gdb exult_studio`, then type 'run' at it's command line.
[06:29:59] <Amy> Thanks.
[06:30:10] <Amy> I'm typing up another reply on my findings for editing.
[06:30:18] <Amy> The footprints Jeff coded up help A LOT.
[06:32:47] <Kirben> oops
[06:32:50] * Kirben slaps Kirben around a bit with a large trout
[06:33:21] * Darke earperks.
[06:33:21] <Kirben> was using wrong exult studio
[06:33:30] * Kirben feels like a fool
[06:34:53] * Darke grins, he spent and entire day debugging the 'wrong copy' of ucxt, due to problematic symlinks, or rather the fact a symlink that should have been there, wasn't.
[06:43:32] <Amy> Well that, surprisingly, works.
[07:00:08] * Darke is surprised that his changes recently have cause no complaints, and no bugs. He's either doing something right, or the only people working on exult, are the ones fidding with exult_studio. <grin>
[07:11:00] <Amy> Heheheheh.
[07:11:10] <Amy> I was just surprised that something worked with estudio.
[07:11:46] <Amy> I wonder if Jeff's gonna get tired of me. =>
[07:12:49] * Darke grins.
[07:41:52] <Amy> WHeeeeee.
[07:42:57] <Amy> The height-specific footprint will help even more, I imagine.
[07:44:13] <Darke> It should. It'll be nice to have an 'easy to use' editor for exult sometime in the future. <grin>
[07:45:10] <Amy> Well, the progress is visible.
[07:45:23] <Amy> I suppose I should run exult-studio with gdb and try to recreate those crashes.
[07:45:29] <Amy> Oddly, it's not crashing today.
[07:45:35] <Amy> Not that this means anything.
[07:50:00] <Amy> Well, that freaked it out nicely.
[07:50:17] <Amy> That's a nice consistent way to get a segfault.
[07:51:09] <Amy> I resized estudio to take up all nine desktops. =>
[07:51:11] <Amy> It choked.
[07:51:20] * Darke giggles. Impressive.
[07:51:23] <Amy> Now what?
[07:51:25] <Amy> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[07:51:25] <Amy> 0x4005133b in XMoveResizeWindow () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6
[07:51:25] <Amy> Current language: auto; currently c
[07:51:25] <Amy> (gdb)
[07:51:42] <Darke> `bt` and see what it dumps.
[07:51:53] <Amy> GAAAH!
[07:52:01] <Amy> Should I quote here, or in an email?
[07:52:47] <Darke> I can't really help with it, so perhaps the entire thing posted to the ML would be best.
[07:52:53] <Amy> 'Kay.
[07:53:10] <Amy> Of course, there's the minor hindrance that the damned window is still covering all 9 desktops.
[07:54:24] <Darke> Type `kill` in the gdb session and it should kill it.
[07:56:10] <Amy> Yay.
[07:56:45] <Amy> Sent.
[07:57:13] <Amy> I see that Jeff has awakened.
[07:58:30] <Amy> Meanwhile, I think I'm going to play GBA stuff.
[07:58:55] <Darke> Yep, looks like he has.
[07:59:06] <Amy> He should drag his lazy butt in here.
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[08:45:28] <Darke> Hi Wumpus. <bow>
[08:49:40] <Amy> Heyo.
[09:32:47] <Amy> Wheeeeee.
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[10:24:56] <Amy> About time for me to perish.
[10:31:17] <Darke> Hmm... well, have fun dying then. <grin>
[10:36:49] <Amy> I always think about one of the BG quotes.
[10:36:56] <Amy> 'I'd like to minimize the downside to being dead.'
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[11:25:17] <Wumpus> hello dominus
[11:25:17] <Dominus> hey ho
[11:25:21] * Wumpus wanders off to bed ;-p
[11:25:26] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("zzzzz")
[11:25:29] <Dominus> ah, finally we meet again
[11:25:35] <Dominus> and off you are :-)
[11:25:37] <Dominus> lol
[11:30:06] * Darke giggles. "Hi Dominus. <grin> A bit eager to escape from you was he?"
[11:30:15] <Dominus> yeah
[11:30:39] <Dominus> I think he is still upset as I had SF mail him those hundreds of mails
[11:30:41] <Dominus> :-)
[11:30:53] * Darke grins.
[11:30:58] <Dominus> when I deleted attached savegames from closed bugs
[11:31:45] * Darke nods, he remembers that. <grin>
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[11:32:17] * Dominus thinks that Jeff really gets hundred of those when I am on a delete hunt
[11:32:38] <Darke> It wouldn't surprise me.
[11:32:41] <Dominus> hi Kirben, oh master of the Win32 port of Exult Studio!!!
[11:32:47] <Kirben> Hi
[11:33:13] <Kirben> no not master, or I would have had it working long ago...
[11:33:18] <Dominus> he he
[11:34:36] <Kirben> does it seem to be working well though ?
[11:34:36] <Dominus> if you have time you could update the readme.win32 file with instructions to build it
[11:34:50] <Dominus> need to check latest build out
[11:35:08] <Dominus> especially with it in the right dirs
[11:35:58] <Kirben> I was planning to but have not got around to it, I need to put some libglade/libxml libs online too.
[11:36:19] <Dominus> yeah, I figured, as I'm just reading yesterdays logs
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[11:37:21] <Colourless> hi
[11:37:38] <Dominus> hi
[11:37:51] <Darke> Hello. <bow>
[11:38:58] <Dominus> nice icon for Srudio
[11:39:03] <Dominus> studio
[11:39:12] <Colourless> thanks
[11:40:38] <Dominus> now did this starting of Exult Studio work automatically when going into map editor mode?
[11:41:50] <Colourless> yeah
[11:42:33] <Dominus> hmm, didn't work for me right now (with the build on the download page)
[11:43:11] <Colourless> no, it wont. exult needs to be compiled with exult studio support
[11:43:27] <Dominus> ah
[11:43:33] <Dominus> how to do that
[11:43:45] <Colourless> can't at the moment
[11:43:46] * Dominus looks at makefile.win32
[11:43:55] <Colourless> needs a few modifications in the source to work
[11:43:55] * Dominus stops looking
[11:44:11] <Dominus> he he
[11:44:29] <Colourless> compiling with exult studio support assumes you have X11
[11:47:44] * Colourless wonders should he make Win32 communications between Exult and Exult Studio only work on WinNT based systems.... it would be easier if he did
[11:47:55] <Dominus> he he
[11:48:16] <Dominus> would be nice
[11:48:47] <Dominus> considering that on the long run the Win9x systems are meant to die out it wouldn't be too bad
[11:48:51] <Darke> What area in specific are you wondering about?
[11:49:06] <Darke> Just the socket type code?
[11:49:13] <Colourless> Win9x doesn't support async writing to pipes.
[11:49:32] <Colourless> exult studio and exult will both lock if they both attempt to write to the pipe at the same time
[11:49:39] * Darke icks. He'd forgotten that... feature.
[11:49:44] <Colourless> if things are running async
[11:49:53] <Colourless> s/are/are not/
[11:50:00] <Darke> Perhaps have two pipes then?
[11:50:05] <Colourless> doesn't help
[11:50:33] <Colourless> if things are runing in sync mode, the WriteFile function only returns when the other side of the pipe completes its ReadFile call
[11:50:46] <Kirben> Colourless: did you get sources from mark ?
[11:50:46] <Darke> Ow.
[11:50:52] <Colourless> yeah I've got them
[11:51:49] <Colourless> one way around it is to create a new thread to do the writing to the pipe. not exactly an elegant solution, but it would work
[11:51:49] <Kirben> I thoought he did that (make Exult Studio start through map edit mode in exult)
[11:52:30] <Colourless> Kirben: He said he did, and it's not exactly a difficult thing to do
[11:53:03] <Colourless> the only things that stop exult from compiling with EXULT_STUDIO_SUPPORT defined is the xdrag code
[11:53:48] <Kirben> I'm still hoping latest gtk+ has better dnd support
[11:54:13] <Kirben> so will be easier to change
[11:54:46] * Darke nods.
[11:57:10] <Colourless> the Win32 Named Pipe is an interesting beast, it can be used to communicate between not only 2 different processes on the 1 computer, but also between 2 different computers!
[11:57:36] <Dominus> yeah, multiplayer Exult!!!
[11:57:46] <Colourless> so, it would be possible to run exult studio on a different computer to exult and they would still be able to communicate :-)
[11:58:00] <Kirben> cool
[11:58:02] <Dominus> which would be very intersting
[11:58:48] <Darke> Weird... I don't suppose it's possible to point a named pipe into a file on, say a nfs share under unix... hmm...
[11:59:06] <Colourless> no
[11:59:52] <Colourless> only works between windows computers as far as I know. the name of a pipe is like this \\compname\pipe\pipename
[11:59:57] <Darke> I wonder why. I presume because it wasn't in the spec. <grin>
[12:00:22] <Colourless> doesn't create an actual file
[12:01:09] <Colourless> a socket could probably be used for such things :-)
[12:01:12] <Darke> Nifty. I presume you could have multiple computers linked in a ring like that. <grin>
[12:02:01] * Darke nods, he would suspect the reason it isn't a 'feature' of unix, is because unix had inbuilt sockets for a lot longer then windows has. <grin>
[12:02:46] <Colourless> :-)
[12:14:30] <Kirben> Is that what we need for gtk+ dnd ? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gimpwin-dev/message/1879
[12:16:35] <Colourless> no, we need inter app dnd
[12:16:53] <Kirben> oh :(
[12:17:30] <Kirben> in that case better intergrate mark's ole dnd
[12:17:38] <Colourless> yeah
[12:18:19] <Kirben> want me to do it or would you rather do it ?
[12:19:00] <Colourless> you can if you want.
[12:19:53] <Kirben> ok will do
[12:23:48] <Kirben> exult studio doesn't use libxml directly, right ? but through libglade
[12:24:02] <Colourless> yeah
[12:24:14] <Kirben> odd, he linked in xml
[12:28:20] <Dominus> bbl
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[12:31:43] * Darke has been compelled by Dominus' signoff to Exult!
[12:42:17] <Kirben> hmm this hack isn't much better
[12:42:26] <Kirben> needs a .def file to build dll
[12:42:52] <Kirben> so still need to list all on_... functions
[12:59:06] <Colourless> i would keep yours
[13:02:45] <Kirben> ok
[13:06:27] <Kirben> although mine requires more work, need to add two lines
[13:08:47] <Colourless> the other creates and extra files
[13:12:28] <Kirben> I mean it would be easier to add say on_loc_chunk_down_clicked to studio.def instead of adding:
[13:12:29] <Kirben> glade_xml_signal_connect(app_xml, "on_loc_chunk_down_clicked",(void(*)())on_loc_chunk_down_clicked);
[13:12:29] <Kirben> extern "C" void on_loc_chunk_down_clicked(GtkButton *button, gpointer user_data);
[13:13:24] <Colourless> ah, ok]
[13:19:04] <Colourless> do you have the .def file?
[13:23:04] <Kirben> no, i just created one
[13:23:11] <Colourless> ok
[13:31:54] <Colourless> chances are using __declspec(dllexport) could be used instead of a def
[13:37:31] <Kirben> how exactly do I use it ?
[13:37:57] <Colourless> just add it to the start of a function
[13:38:20] <Colourless> so instead of extern "C" void
[13:38:43] <Colourless> you would use extern "C" __declspec(dllexport) void
[13:40:43] <Colourless> if you get it to compile and work as a DLL, I 'might' be able to get it to work as an exe.
[13:47:31] <Kirben> nevermind not needed after all
[13:47:46] <Colourless> why?
[13:48:12] <Kirben> I forgot it has auto import now, so only need main_win32 in def
[13:49:04] <Colourless> ij
[13:49:06] <Colourless> ok
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[14:09:25] <Dominus> hi again
[14:09:28] * Darke bows, "Hello again."
[14:09:30] <Colourless> hi
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[14:21:36] <sbx> hi
[14:21:41] <Dominus> hi
[14:21:42] <Colourless> hi
[14:21:47] <Darke> Hello.
[14:21:57] * sbx delivers Amy|Corpse to the Crematorium.
[14:22:21] <Colourless> did you get any gold?
[14:22:27] <sbx> no :P
[14:22:30] <Kirben> Colourless: could you create a log redirect for exult studio ?
[14:22:56] <Kirben> Colourless: so errors are logged to file and not console
[14:22:56] <Colourless> log redirect?
[14:23:00] <sbx> heh
[14:23:23] <Colourless> yeah, easy
[14:23:34] <Kirben> thanks
[14:23:35] <Colourless> just need to get it to use SDL_main
[14:23:59] <sbx> Did freedman come here any in the last couple of days?
[14:24:17] <Colourless> he was here a few days ago
[14:24:26] <Dominus> ?seen freedman
[14:24:26] <exultbot> freedman left IRC around Thu Jan 10 20:37:20 2002 (GMT) ("Leaving")
[14:24:38] <sbx> oh i remember that(from the logs)
[14:34:56] <Kirben> submitted autoconnect fix
[14:36:31] <Kirben> hmm is there any point in adding dnd yet ? since networking isn't ready for win32
[14:36:59] <Colourless> no, not yet
[14:37:14] <Kirben> ok well done then for now
[14:38:05] <Colourless> good.
[14:38:10] <Kirben> or should I add him to author now too ?
[14:38:43] <Colourless> somewhere he does need to be credited with what he did
[14:39:14] <Kirben> if now author then where else ?
[14:40:14] * Colourless notes that not even you are in authors :-)
[14:40:29] * Kirben isn't really a developer
[14:40:59] * Dominus thinks that Mark should be mentioned in credits
[14:41:10] * Dominus isn't a developer as well
[14:42:03] <Kirben> amiga porter is missing too
[14:44:13] <Colourless> yeah, put him there, and yourself. should also get put in the credits.txt file
[14:44:13] <Colourless> oh well. you do help maintain the windows port
[14:44:13] <Colourless> especially the makefiles
[14:44:13] <Colourless> but really. mark isn't on the team either
[14:44:13] <Colourless> data/credit.txt is the place
[14:44:14] <Colourless> yeah
[14:44:47] * Dominus nods
[14:47:04] <sbx> Darke: I actually think that the colours of the expack screenshot you posted are "Ok", in moderation. :-)
[14:50:09] * Colourless notes that at the bottom of the "CreateNamedPipe" function reference is the following - Windows 95/98/Me: Unsupported
[14:51:47] <Colourless> i think it's pretty obvious that I can't use them in Win9x, so there is no point in attempting to work around not being able to use async WriteFile
[14:58:44] <Kirben> Dominus: check out http://members.optushome.com.au/veemon/exult_studio.html
[14:59:01] <Dominus> ah, thanks
[14:59:20] <Colourless> kirben, some more things might be needed as well
[14:59:45] <Colourless> i had to download more than what you told me to get yesterday
[15:00:26] <Kirben> Colourless: what others ? I think that pages includes all
[15:00:28] <Colourless> i needed pkgconfig-0.80-tml-20020101.zip
[15:00:39] <Kirben> ah forgot that one
[15:00:43] <Colourless> and libintl-0.10.40-20020101.zip
[15:01:26] <Dominus> wow, studio needs a lot of stuff :-)
[15:02:11] <Colourless> gee, that's already on the list :-)
[15:02:14] <Kirben> I must have forgotten to mention that one, is on page already
[15:02:19] <Kirben> page updated
[15:04:23] <Kirben> Colourless: So add Rüdiger Hanke and me to authors file ?
[15:05:34] <Kirben> I will leave credits.txt for someone else to edit, weird formating in there. And BTW I'm already in that one
[15:06:08] <Dominus> see you, have to go
[15:06:10] <Dominus> bye
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[15:06:30] <Kirben> cya
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[15:08:44] <Kirben> <Kirben> Colourless: So add Rüdiger Hanke and me to authors file ?
[15:08:45] <Kirben> <Kirben> I will leave credits.txt for someone else to edit, weird formating in there. And BTW I'm already in that one
[15:09:14] <Colourless> did you get my comments in reply?
[15:09:38] <Kirben> no
[15:09:53] <Colourless> the authors files is meant for The Exult Team.
[15:09:58] <Colourless> that would be the regular contributers i guess
[15:12:12] <Kirben> so was that a no ?
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[15:39:06] * Darke unidles and notices Colourless is bouncing again.
[16:02:51] * sbx waves.
[16:02:55] <-- sbx has left IRC ("^_^")
[16:30:24] * Darke bows, "Must go. Goodnight all."
[16:30:28] <Colourless> cya
[16:30:29] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
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[20:17:48] <[LK]> Yay! Hay!
[20:34:00] --- Amy|Corpse is now known as Amy
[20:35:25] * Amy yawns.
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[20:55:39] <Fingolfin> hiya
[20:57:23] <Colourless> hi
[20:59:15] <Amy> Whee!
[20:59:19] <[LK]> Heya
[21:00:53] * Colourless is so very tired
[21:03:43] <Fingolfin> he
[21:03:53] <Fingolfin> maybe you should go to bed then? I was told this sometimes helps
[21:04:13] * Amy looks at Worldforge screenshots, and blinks.
[21:04:20] <Amy> When did they actually start making progress?
[21:05:26] <Colourless> bed... what a fascinating idea
[21:08:13] <Colourless> time for my to go
[21:08:17] <Colourless> bye all
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[21:30:00] <dto> hola folks
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[22:34:24] <artaxerxes> Hi all
[22:34:40] <dto> hi
[22:34:51] <artaxerxes> I would just like to point something about Exult studio on Win32
[22:35:07] <dto> ok shoot
[22:35:25] <artaxerxes> You guys mention that the missing key ingredient is good dnd support... and that gtk+ isn't great at it
[22:35:34] <artaxerxes> What about using SDL's dnd ??
[22:39:54] <artaxerxes> or even using copy/paste
[22:40:27] <artaxerxes> ... there is a demo on the sdl site http://www.libsdl.org/projects/scrap/index.html
[22:40:57] <artaxerxes> At least it says it runs on Windows and Linux...
[22:43:11] <Fingolfin> there is no such thing as SDL drag & drop
[22:43:28] <Fingolfin> copy & paster is a different thing
[22:46:14] <artaxerxes> what is THAT different?? After all, drag puts all the info it needs in the clipboard (windows or linux) = cpoy and drop just paste that info...
[22:46:27] <artaxerxes> s/cpoy/copy/
[22:48:03] <artaxerxes> So you could do a CTRL-leftclick on the item you want to dnd, put the mouse cursor on the map and do another CTRL-leftclick... it simulates dnd and is portable.
[22:50:06] <Fingolfin> it is quite different from a techincal level, though - I am not saying it shouldn't be done, or can't be done or whatever, but it *is* difference
[22:50:14] <Fingolfin> at least on windows/linux :)
[22:51:06] <artaxerxes> I see.... Now honestly, is there some kind of concensus that says it *OUGHT* to use dnd instead of copy/paste ?
[22:52:08] <artaxerxes> because otherwise it would solve the problem
[22:58:04] <Fingolfin> it should support both from a usability point of view I guess
[22:58:11] <Fingolfin> feel free to write a suggestion to the mailing list
[23:01:41] <-- dto has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[23:05:28] <artaxerxes> When I think about it, I've known and used exult from the time Dominus was not even in the picture and still, this is my 2nd time on irc and I've never used the mailing list!
[23:05:36] <artaxerxes> ...
[23:12:57] <Amy> Wheee.
[23:14:22] <Amy> Dragging is more useful than c&p in some cases.
[23:15:19] <artaxerxes> in what intance?
[23:15:29] <artaxerxes> s/intance/instance/
[23:15:50] <Amy> Currently, there's no provision for seeing exactly where an object will go unless you drag it.
[23:16:54] <Amy> It's also a little more hit-and-miss with a paste feature, even if the footprints are present. Less precision.
[23:25:24] <-- [LK] has left IRC ("Leaving")
[23:26:22] <Amy> Oh, and we already have a paste feature.
[23:28:04] <artaxerxes> well... I was just proposing...
[23:28:11] <Amy> Oh, certainly.
[23:28:20] <Amy> It was a perfectly valid suggestion.
[23:28:33] <Amy> I've been working with Jeff on the usability items.
[23:28:41] <Amy> i.e., I demand, and he eventually supplies. =>
[23:29:03] <artaxerxes> I use Linux to play U7... so I have access to ES... it's just that I don't like win32 user to be in the same position I was with linux when no one made stuff for it
[23:29:17] <Amy> There's actually progress being made on Win32 EStudio.
[23:29:23] <Amy> It's all on the mailing list. =>
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[23:38:17] <Amy> Hi again.
[23:38:44] <[LK]> Hello!
[23:38:56] <artaxerxes> yo
[23:39:08] <[LK]> You can be really nasty with your U7 char..
[23:39:26] <[LK]> He likes sheeps, woman and if you "cheat", even men.. lol
[23:40:03] <[LK]> like be a man, then change gender to woman, talk to Brendan or what the name is, then change back gender.. lol
[23:40:34] <Amy> ...
[23:40:47] <Amy> Another topic, please?
[23:41:21] <[LK]> lol
[23:41:41] <[LK]> I mean, the makers must have been... Okey.. nevermind..
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[23:54:04] <freedman> Hi dudes; dudettes.
[23:54:59] <artaxerxes> yo
[23:55:47] <Fingolfin> hi jeff
[23:55:59] <freedman> Hi Max
[23:57:20] <artaxerxes> Jeff... what d'ya think of my post regarding the combat bug? makes sense?
[23:57:53] <freedman> Yes. But I think the original report was about the cases where the hostile NPC just stands there.
[23:58:09] <artaxerxes> fun... I didn't understand it the same way
[23:58:46] <freedman> Anyway, I probably won't mess with combat for a while. It's too easy to make things worse.
[23:58:55] <artaxerxes> :)