#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 17 Jun 2002 (GMT)

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[10:43:46] <bj0ern> hi
[10:46:27] <Darke> Hi.
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[13:07:11] <wjp> hi
[13:08:12] <bj0ern> hi
[13:29:42] * wjp has to go again :-)
[13:29:42] <wjp> bbl
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[13:52:13] <Colourless> hi
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[14:43:33] <wjp> hi again
[14:43:40] <Colourless> hi
[15:10:06] <Colourless> oh yay. Embedded Visual C++ 3.0 doesn't support C++ exceptions. Version 4 (comming soon) will
[15:12:20] <wjp> it what?!
[15:12:31] <wjp> ugh... not good
[15:12:51] <Colourless> not good indeed
[15:12:59] <wjp> don't tell me that'll mean you have to download another 300+Mb when that is released?
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[15:13:22] <wjp> hi
[15:13:48] <Colourless> heh, probably :-)
[15:13:52] <Suxebs> lo
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[15:14:01] <Colourless> hi
[15:14:25] <sbx> would the digital music go in share/exult/music ?
[15:14:34] <sbx> the readme says exult\data but i dont have a exult\data
[15:14:49] <sbx> exult/data/music
[15:14:52] <sbx> ?
[15:17:51] <Colourless> bah, embedded visual tools 4.0 is already out. and it's even bigger! 333 mb
[15:18:12] <wjp> sbx: share/exult/music, yes
[15:18:14] <sbx> what made you decide to dl that sdk and do the pocket pc version Colourless?
[15:18:16] <sbx> okay
[15:18:26] <wjp> share/exult is the data dir on default installs
[15:18:47] <sbx> that is where i thought it would go, but I had to be difficult and bother you
[15:18:51] <sbx> :)
[15:18:58] <wjp> about the failing install: you may need automake 1.5
[15:19:32] <sbx> oh... okay
[15:19:37] <sbx> does it just effect exult studio now?
[15:20:08] <sbx> if so, i can just move the directory and ignore it
[15:20:20] <sbx> everything else installed correctly
[15:20:45] <wjp> you can ignore that directory if you don't use exutl studio
[15:20:48] <wjp> or just copy it
[15:21:00] <wjp> the actual location doesn't even really matter, I think
[15:21:36] <sbx> i see
[15:21:37] <sbx> aah
[15:21:42] <sbx> digital music works
[15:21:52] <sbx> does simon quinn come in here?
[15:23:33] <sbx> this is great!
[15:24:29] <wjp> occasionally
[15:24:59] <Colourless> restarting
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[15:25:08] <sbx> ?
[15:25:20] <wjp> '?' ?
[15:25:36] <sbx> why is he restarting?
[15:25:47] <wjp> he's using windows; does he need a reason? ;-)
[15:26:00] <sbx> heh oh yeah
[15:26:07] <sbx> have you used the digital music?
[15:26:21] <wjp> yeah
[15:26:22] <wjp> it's great
[15:26:58] <sbx> why won't it make it to 1.0?
[15:28:27] <sbx> hmm, the music stops when i move out of the exult window
[15:28:31] <sbx> that seems kinda strange
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[15:30:25] <wjp> wb
[15:30:29] <sbx> wb
[15:30:30] <wjp> sbx: yes, very annoying, isn't it
[15:30:33] <Colourless> thx
[15:34:19] <sbx> wjp: it is intended?
[15:34:27] <wjp> yes
[15:34:41] <wjp> it'll be an option in the future
[15:35:05] <sbx> that is reasonable
[15:39:29] <Colourless> [15:25:36] <sbx> why is he restarting?
[15:39:57] <Colourless> i had to restart because i tried uninstalling a program while i was still running it (without knowing i was still running it)
[15:40:16] <Colourless> i then wanted to reinstall it
[15:40:25] <wjp> ok, I see how that would be a problem :-)
[15:41:04] <sbx> i dont remember ever doing that in win
[15:41:42] <sbx> Colourless: what made you decide to work on Exult for Pocket PC?
[15:42:16] <sbx> before you said the dl was too large
[15:42:24] <Colourless> i was bored
[15:42:30] <Colourless> :-)
[15:42:39] <Colourless> the download is too large :-)
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[15:43:35] <sbx> hi
[15:43:35] <Dominus> hi
[15:43:36] <wjp> hi
[15:43:44] <Colourless> especially now that i've got to download another 300+ mb because i downloaded the 'wrong' version. I swear that ms's site doesn't mention the updated version anywhere. all of the pages say download version 3
[15:43:46] <Dominus> sbx: <audio><disablepause>yes might stop pausing of music
[15:43:56] <wjp> I just posted a "ATTN: Having trouble with MIDI in Windows?" thread on the forum
[15:43:56] <sbx> Colourless: i think thats how a lot of programming projects get started- being bored :>
[15:44:14] <Dominus> wjp: good idea
[15:44:16] <wjp> lots of people seemed to be hit by the volume_curve==f thingie
[15:44:16] <sbx> i will try that dominus
[15:44:36] <wjp> Colourless: don't you know anybody nearby with broadband?
[15:44:42] <Dominus> btw, was that post rc2 bug or was it in there as well?
[15:44:49] <wjp> Dominus: dunno
[15:45:13] <sbx> Dominus: the option was already in the config file in fact, it was just set to no
[15:45:38] <Dominus> sbx: I know :-)
[15:46:30] <Dominus> btw, if you want to make a total new game with ES the files you have problem with need to be in the default location
[15:46:39] <Colourless> wjp: i 'sort of' know one person with boardband.
[15:46:54] <Colourless> but i don't exactly know them well
[15:47:28] <Dominus> well, if they have broadband 300 mb shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless they are metered
[15:47:50] <wjp> most (all?) australian broadband ISPs have caps, don't they?
[15:48:11] <Colourless> i believe so
[15:48:57] <Colourless> if i was 'really' desperate i could ask darke or kirben to download it and mail me a cdr :-)
[15:49:03] <sbx> Dominus: i copied the files to the appropriate dir
[15:53:59] <Dominus> I'm going to write the Docs and FAQs tonight so the Digital Music stuff is explained.
[15:54:19] <Dominus> expect these in the source but not on the webpage
[15:54:48] <sbx> the readme in the audio directory doesnt mention drsfx
[15:55:10] <Dominus> drsfx is not an official sfx pack :-)
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[16:14:16] <Fingolfin> hi
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[16:15:22] <Dominus> hi
[16:15:22] <Colourless> hi
[16:15:22] <sbx> hi
[16:15:34] <Colourless> our website looks like crap on a pocket pc. it's just a tad too wide. If it weren't for the screenshot on the homepage it wouldn't be too bad :-)
[16:15:57] <Fingolfin> so, what are you proposing?
[16:16:04] <Colourless> nothing :-)
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[16:38:14] <Colourless> just fyi, this is what it looks like: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/homepage_ppc.png
[16:39:21] <wjp> hi Fingolfin
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[17:00:34] <wjp> wb
[17:03:23] <Fingolfin> thx
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[18:02:19] <wjp> Colourless: I integrated your volume_curve post into the mine, btw
[18:02:49] <wjp> s/the //
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[18:08:32] <wjp> hm, do you know/remember if MS has actually been convicted in the anti-trust case?
[18:09:03] <wjp> it seems (top /. story) there's some counties in the US that prohibit from companies convicted under state/federal antitrust statutes
[18:09:22] <wjp> s/prohibit from/prohibit purchasing from/
[18:10:09] <Colourless> hmm, can't remember.
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[19:17:51] <Colourless> hmmm. it appears that the x86 compiler that comes with embedded visual c++ 3 actually does support c++ exceptions... most useful at it means i will be able to do some of the work before i've downloaded the new version
[19:19:09] <Dominus> and at the speed you are able to download you might actually get quite far before it's there :-)
[19:22:12] <wjp> what cpu does the pocketpc use?
[19:25:23] <Colourless> depends which one. they can use a variety of different cps. Pocket PC 2002 all use Intel StrongARM's
[19:26:12] <Colourless> original PocketPC's can used StrongARM, SH3 and MIPS
[20:00:19] <Colourless> hmmm... most useful... i can access the files on my hard drive using windows network paths
[20:00:57] <Dominus> the next thing is that you will get a pocket PC :-)
[20:01:41] <Colourless> i couldn't justify doing that :-)
[20:02:06] <Dominus> well, take it out of our treasury
[20:02:27] <Colourless> too bad we don't have one :-)
[20:46:51] <Colourless> uh oh. embedded visual c++ doesn't have the c++ stl headers :-)
[20:48:29] <Colourless> i think it's obvious what that means
[20:58:01] <wjp> um, no STL?
[20:59:11] <Colourless> no
[20:59:20] <Colourless> but someones made an adaptation
[21:00:23] <Colourless> of course i just realized that embedded visual c++ 4.0 can't be used with pocketpc's
[21:00:53] <Dominus> hehe, the logs of today are quite funny
[21:01:11] <Dominus> I got it, no I don't, it works,, no it doesn't
[21:01:22] <Dominus> :-)
[21:02:05] <Colourless> so, i've got stl now, but no exception handling. this is going to be mighty interesting. we could probably get away with no exception in pentagram, but in exult, its going to be most interesting
[21:03:56] <Colourless> grrr: No stream library (iostream, iostream.h, etc. are missing).
[21:04:20] <wjp> hm, wasn't there something called... umm... setjmp?
[21:04:35] <wjp> no iostream?!
[21:04:52] <wjp> what about fstream?
[21:05:23] <Colourless> no streams at all
[21:05:29] <wjp> bah...
[21:05:57] <wjp> hm, any way of using libstdc++ or something?
[21:07:06] <Colourless> dunno, maybe
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[21:10:31] * Darke bows. 'Morning'.
[21:10:54] <Colourless> hi
[21:11:07] <Dominus> hi
[21:11:14] <wjp> morning
[21:11:36] <Darke> IE in a PocketPC is rather... cute.
[22:10:04] <Dominus> Question, is it possible to assign an action to the Insert key in defaultkeys.txt?
[22:10:26] <Dominus> what is the correct "name" for insert to use in there?
[22:12:43] <wjp> insert
[22:12:50] <Dominus> thx
[22:13:36] <wjp> time for me to go
[22:13:38] <wjp> g'night
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[22:13:42] <Darke> Night!
[22:31:35] <Dominus> Darke: do you know if the timidity.cfg file is also needed in the dir where exult executable is with the devel 1.0 branch?
[22:32:14] <Darke> Dominus: I don't know. I don't think it is though, IIRC, it's just a SDL_mixer 'problem'.
[22:32:55] <Dominus> ok, just wondering what I need to put into the devel 1.0 docs/faq
[22:32:56] <Dominus> thx
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[23:13:29] <Kirben> Dominus: does the ogg music work for you ?
[23:13:47] <Dominus> hi Kirben
[23:13:52] <Dominus> yes it does
[23:13:52] <Darke> Hi.
[23:13:54] <Dominus> why?
[23:13:55] <Kirben> Hi
[23:14:52] <Kirben> Doesn't work on my system.
[23:15:07] <Dominus> not at all?
[23:15:23] <Dominus> you did see the volume_curve problem?
[23:15:27] <Kirben> Not at all when I last tried, not at home right now.
[23:15:32] <Kirben> Yes
[23:15:51] <Kirben> MIDI music worked but not ogg.
[23:16:05] <Dominus> and you downloaded the package and extracted into /data/music ?
[23:16:10] <Kirben> yes
[23:16:34] <Kirben> Dominus: your still doing own compiles with dynamic sdl_mixer right ?
[23:16:41] <Dominus> yep
[23:16:56] <Kirben> Could you try out my last snapshot ?
[23:16:59] <Dominus> I could try your snapshot to see if that is the problem
[23:17:03] <Dominus> :-)
[23:18:37] <Dominus> one moment...
[23:22:10] <Dominus> it's definitely not working with your build
[23:23:01] <Kirben> Thats bad, is odd how it compiles without problems though.
[23:23:50] <Kirben> In that case it won't be working until I get an updated installer.
[23:24:44] <Kirben> thanks for checking that out.
[23:25:05] <Dominus> or if we temporally provide sdl_mixer.dll seperately for downloading on the snapshot page
[23:26:24] <Kirben> good idea, that could be a temporary solution. I still won't be able to update snapshot until tonight though
[23:26:49] <Dominus> no problem I guess
[23:26:55] <Kirben> I really should setup some kind of shell access at home.
[23:27:10] <Kirben> than I could do snapshots from anywhere
[23:27:29] <Dominus> I'm going to have to update the webpage anyway with new FAQ/Doc and I can put a zipped dll in there
[23:28:20] <Dominus> what'S the problem with setting one up?
[23:28:22] <Kirben> ok just use a generic filename like exult_sdl_mixer.zip
[23:28:30] <Dominus> ok
[23:28:43] <Kirben> and include the required readme file too.
[23:29:17] <Kirben> I just have not got around to looking into setting up shell access.
[23:30:05] <Dominus> btw, Kirben, I noticed in the scummvm changelog that it now support opengl, right?
[23:30:12] <Kirben> yes
[23:30:15] <Dominus> is that enabled in the snapshot?
[23:30:50] <Kirben> no, since I have to compile as either opengl or sdl only.
[23:31:03] <Dominus> ah, ok
[23:31:25] <Dominus> is there anything special needed for compiling it with opengl from the source
[23:31:26] <Dominus> ?
[23:31:31] <Kirben> is easy to compile if you want to check out scummvm cvs though.
[23:31:44] <Kirben> no
[23:32:06] <Dominus> I guess if I can compile Pentagram with opengl it should work with scummvm then, right?
[23:32:29] <Kirben> It just needs an extra sdl directory like exult unless you change paths in Makefile.
[23:32:32] <Kirben> yep
[23:33:04] <Dominus> ok, will look at that later
[23:34:00] <Kirben> I might add an extra scummvmgl.exe to next scummvm snapshot.
[23:34:13] <Dominus> that would be ideal :-)
[23:37:03] <Darke> Incidentally, do we know if there exists a spanish U7:BG?
[23:38:19] <Darke> I know I located a spanish U7:SI, which is mentioned in the FAQ...
[23:38:21] <Dominus> I'm pretty sure there is one (at least as stated in the FAQ :-))
[23:38:42] <Darke> *nod* Only SI is mentioned though, not BG. *grin*
[23:38:43] <Dominus> but I'm not sure
[23:39:32] <Dominus> I have written it in a way that is not completely certain :-)
[23:40:47] <Dominus> I just made sure that the volume_curve problem didn't exist in the RC2 :-)
[23:40:50] <Dominus> phew
[23:41:32] <Dominus> I wonder if I should really bother with mentioning it in the FAQ...
[23:42:08] * Darke is pretty sure we only knew the existance of SI.es. It's just he just saw something that's claiming to be a copy of BG.es about to fall off the back of a truck, and he's currently prodding it with a Pointy Stick(tm).
[23:42:09] <Kirben> Yes, the problem only occured in gcc 3.1 compiles, due to using the snprintf.o replacement
[23:43:46] <Dominus> Darke: I wrote:" However there are reported problems with the localized versions of the game (French, German and Spanish)..."
[23:44:07] <Dominus> and I'm pretty sure, that when i first wrote that we didn't even have support for SI
[23:44:48] <Dominus> there were localized copies for these languages but only BG standalone
[23:44:59] <Darke> *nod* We didn't. SI had debugging opcodes in their usecode that was breaking things. AFAICT, it's not an 'offical' Origin release, but certainly a licenced release.
[23:45:04] <Dominus> that'S why it was so astonishing to hear of a spanish version
[23:45:07] <Darke> *nod* SI was standalone.
[23:45:12] <Darke> Yep. *grin*
[23:45:28] <Kirben> BTW is multi-language support to be in 1.0 or later ?
[23:45:40] <Dominus> Kirben: later
[23:45:54] <Dominus> in the unstable branch
[23:46:03] * Darke is more interested to find out if this is just BG or BG+FOV, the former he thinks. But there's always hope. *grin*
[23:46:25] <Dominus> AFAIK there was no localized version of FOV
[23:47:11] <Dominus> everyone who bought a localized version of BG was fucked over by ORigin with this as the English FoV was not compatible
[23:48:10] * Darke figures. He wonders if there's any way to acquire the FoV patch by itself, it may be useful to see if it's possible to merge the patch into the localised versions.
[23:48:50] <Dominus> all guides that I read say it isn't possible and we recently had a discussion on this in the .series newsgroup
[23:48:58] <Darke> FYI, 'juegos' is 'games' in spanish. *grin*
[23:49:31] <Darke> 'descarga' appears to mean 'download'.
[23:49:50] * Dominus thinks Darke'S truck has strange names
[23:50:37] <Dominus> But again, I'm pretty sure we knew of the spanish BG version
[23:50:40] <Darke> _Very_ strange names. It's rather interesting to try to read spanish/italian/french/german language websites when you only know a smattering of the last three, and none of the first. *grin*
[23:51:13] * Darke just remembers postulating it's existance, but not knowing if there was a copy out there.
[23:51:58] <Dominus> I think we even had bug reports on it way back, before you jumped into the team (on the Jackchaos board)
[23:52:31] <Darke> Cool. One 'problem' with webboards is there tends to be no 'backups' of them.
[23:52:34] <-- matto has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[23:53:01] <Dominus> yeah, I'd still like to know what happended to Jackchaos
[23:54:16] <Dominus> ok, in the devel branch FAQ, I have three new things:
[23:54:35] <Dominus> 1.bug reports with attached savegames only by registered users
[23:54:50] <Dominus> 2. branches explained as on the main page
[23:54:55] * Darke would like to know too. He only started reading it just before it disappeared.
[23:55:26] <Dominus> 3. no Studio support in RC2 and snapshots
[23:55:33] <Dominus> of the stable branch
[23:56:44] <Kirben> Well 3 isn't right yet, should I recompile 0.99.2cvs without studio support now too ?
[23:57:35] <Dominus> I think yes
[23:57:46] <Dominus> otoh, I'm not sure
[23:59:14] <Kirben> ok, that should be best option since 0.99.2cvs only no longer changing. I will remove the last es 0.99.2cvs snapshot as same time too.