#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Apr 2002 (GMT)

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[00:09:15] <Colourless> i think i should go
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[07:14:24] <Kirben> Is Jeff working on opengl version of exult ?
[07:17:53] <Darke> I think that's his intent.
[07:20:36] <Kirben> Will be interesting to see once it is done, didn't except such major changes until after 1.0
[07:24:22] * Darke agrees. Certainly interesting.
[07:24:50] <matto> go Jeff!
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[12:26:58] <Darke> Hi.
[12:30:32] <Fingolfin> hi
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[13:17:07] <Colourless> hi
[13:18:27] <Fingolfin> yo
[13:22:15] <Darke> Hi.
[13:22:47] <Colourless> what I wrote in pentagram/docs/design/opengl.txt: "Pentagram will require a substantial amount of texture memory."
[13:22:48] <Colourless> The result of loading all the shapes from Central Tenebrae as 32 bit textures (look at highlighted process): http://www.users.on.net/triforce/glpentagram0.png
[13:25:37] <Fingolfin> ho hom
[13:27:42] <Colourless> being a tad more rational about things i have managed to drop the memory usage down to 34 Mb from 78 which I think is pretty good :-)
[13:27:50] <Fingolfin> my card has 32 mb texture memory I think =)
[13:27:59] <Fingolfin> he
[13:28:16] <Fingolfin> at least with 34 the 64mb cards could support it
[13:28:57] <Colourless> minus about 20 mb from those values to get approx how many mb of textures there actually are
[13:30:41] <Colourless> i can still reduce more memory.
[13:35:19] <Colourless> for instance, using 16 bit textures has reduced memory usage to now only 24 mb.
[13:36:25] <Fingolfin> ok
[13:36:26] <Fingolfin> fine
[13:36:32] <Fingolfin> sounds very good
[13:37:07] <Fingolfin> sadly pentagram is very sluggish over here - probably because SDL in windowed mode is very sluggish on OS X :-/ i.e. when I jump it will "stagger", showing me only 1-3 frames
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[13:47:17] <Dominus> hey ho
[13:47:52] <Dominus> Colourless: nice things you did with mapdisp.
[13:47:54] <Darke> Hi.
[13:47:55] <Dominus> Is it playable yet :-)
[13:48:01] <Colourless> hi
[13:48:05] <Colourless> nope :-)
[13:48:49] <Dominus> hm, I read in yesterdays logs that the z-key is supposed to do something. What exactly as it doesn't seem to for me
[13:49:22] <Colourless> it's supposed to move the avatar up and down along the z axis
[13:51:36] <Dominus> and the noticable effect would be?
[13:52:31] <Dominus> ah, great you updated the readme as well
[13:52:32] <Colourless> the screen shift up and down
[13:53:53] <Dominus> hmpf, forgot about the sdl issue and it only worked when pressing y :-)
[13:54:17] <Colourless> hmmm :-)
[13:59:34] <Colourless> oww... things look 'really' bad when I use texture compression in pentgram
[14:06:41] <Colourless> here
[14:07:13] <Colourless> is an example: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/compressed.png
[14:07:38] * Darke utters the immortal phrase. Ouch!
[14:07:52] * Dominus too
[14:08:40] <Darke> Colourless: We believe you. Compressed textures bad. Normal textures good. All hail lord Colourless.
[14:09:48] <Dominus> Colourless: nice thing I did with my old Voodoo2: http://pub43.ezboard.com/fx3dfxfrm1.showMessage?topicID=9377.topic
[14:10:19] <Colourless> yeah i saw.
[14:10:24] <Colourless> how well does it work?
[14:10:33] <Dominus> quite good
[14:10:45] <Colourless> from what I understand it works as a 2d and d3d device
[14:11:50] <Dominus> I'm using VoodooMovie so media player playback instantly works on my secondary device this way I even have the media player controls on my main screen but the movie in fullscreen on my TV
[14:12:21] <Colourless> ah ok
[14:12:31] <Dominus> I haven't exactly looked at d3d but from what I know voodoomovie uses it
[14:14:01] <Dominus> this was quite fun, I tried for hours to get my Mystique work as secondary device but it wouldn't work, bluescreening me everytime I moved something from the 2nd screen to my 1st screen.
[14:14:16] <Colourless> heh.
[14:14:55] <Dominus> Finally gave up and then looked at the multimonitor page again and saw that article on the V2 and tried again with it and it worked right away
[14:14:56] <Colourless> well i haven't even been about to multimon with my 6k and an old pci riva128. WinXP crashes before it even beings up the loading screen
[14:15:18] <Colourless> i think it's a problem with the pci bridge or something. winxp just gets confused
[14:17:08] <Dominus> I really worked hours on it, trying also different slots. In the end I just put my XP backup back on my drive (which I luckily did just before trying to multimon).
[14:18:19] <Dominus> Those first beta of the W2k V2 driver is just great.
[14:22:00] <Colourless> i never had a v2
[14:22:13] <Dominus> ah
[14:22:41] <Dominus> Before I bought my V5 I only worked with a Mystique 220/Voodoo2 setup
[14:29:42] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[14:30:40] * Darke finally concedes defeat of a kind. Certainly for the main engine we're going to need to use 'raw' usecode, rather then parsing it in memory. 3MB of ram is feasable, 12MB is really not. <grin>
[14:34:23] <Dominus> question to all. Robert Bihlmeyer suggested keeping his man pages nevertheless in CVS as well as the txt versions. I guess this requires a /man dir. But where should that be? in the main structure, in /tools or in /docs ?
[14:34:51] <Darke> IMHO, /docs.
[15:03:31] <Dominus> hm would we need to have /docs/man/man1 to follow some general rule for manpages?
[15:05:35] * Darke doesn't think so. IIRC you can tell libtool to put the man pages into the correct directory manually. But it might be a nice thing for it to happen automatically. The question is, which chapter do they go it? <grin>
[15:06:39] <Dominus> hm, before I do something with it, I'll ask on the mailing list for the others to put in their thoughts
[15:07:11] <Darke> Good idea. It looks like everyone else here is idleing doing more important stuff at the moment.
[15:07:42] <Colourless> or just have no clue themselves
[15:07:53] <Dominus> he
[15:07:58] <Darke> That works too. <grin>
[15:09:15] <Fingolfin> acutally, libtool has nothing to do with manpages/their installation - automake does that
[15:09:35] <Fingolfin> and the confiugre script can be used to override the default man page location
[15:09:49] <Fingolfin> for a game, section 6 is correct, BTW
[15:09:51] <Darke> Thanks.
[15:36:20] <Fingolfin> Dominus: i already got a save game for the bread crash
[15:36:22] <Fingolfin> will attach it
[15:36:30] <Fingolfin> didn#t yet have a chance to look at it myself, though
[15:42:32] <Dominus> ah, okay
[16:09:39] <Darke> http://members.iinet.net.au/~garydep/ultima8.html Note the 'last updated' paragraph at the top of the page. <grin>
[16:10:14] <Darke> In specific to the U8 windows map viewer he's been making... <grin>
[16:10:32] * Darke is not being spiteful, he's just very, _very_ amused at the timing of everything. <grin>
[16:12:11] <Colourless> hmm... pentagram was more advanced back then ;-)
[16:13:23] <Darke> <nod> I wonder if this has anything to do with the Adrian Clark person who contacted me, wanting information about the u8usecode. He mentioned he and an associate were working on a 'windows port' of ultima 8.
[16:14:37] * Darke politely pointed him to the exult/pentagram cvs, noted we had shape/gump/animation and map viewers, and that there were a couple of usecode disassemblers there, along with all the docs we had.
[16:14:58] <Colourless> then what?
[16:16:14] <Darke> Just a response saying (paraphrased) 'thanks for the information, if you find any more data of interest to us, feel free to contact us'.
[16:16:33] * Darke meant to actually CC his reply to exult-general, but forgot.
[16:20:17] * Darke notes on the gcc list, there's two bugs just appeared in relation to gcc3.0.4, one with threading under linux and one relating to potential problems with fstream::open(). Either one could be the cause of that weird crash that he's having with mapdisp.
[16:32:28] <Darke> Think we should drop that U8FAQ from that site into pentagram/docs? It has some useful information in it, but I think all of it is documented in other docs.
[16:34:54] <Colourless> what info?
[16:38:10] <Darke> Even less then I originally thought. It's 90% a walkthrough and has a few useful bits of information on the cheat system and the weapons, both bits of information I just checked are already in other files in the cvs. It also has a few of the odder cheats/easter eggs documented, that may be useful to test once we've got a bit more of a game working. <grin>
[16:38:38] <Dominus> Yeah that u9 preview book is something I never heard about
[16:40:08] <Darke> What interests me most in the note about there being an easter egg to 'enchant' your weapon with a knockback power. If we ever encounter a intrinsic that's only used once, and we have no idea as to it's function, that might be it. <grin>
[16:40:41] <Dominus> of that easter egg I never heard of as well
[16:40:43] <Dominus> interesting
[16:41:18] <Darke> It also apparently changes that weapons name. Which makes me think it's a little dubious, because I thought all the weapon names were hardcoded in usecode.
[16:41:22] <Colourless> Darke: the knock back thing might just set a flag on the avatar
[16:42:06] * Darke nods. Possibly. He can cut & paste the five lines of text if you wish.
[16:42:25] <Colourless> uh, why?
[16:42:43] <Darke> Thought you might like to see the description so as to judge for yourself? <grin>
[16:43:11] <Colourless> see what?
[16:43:38] <Colourless> i don't think it's true
[16:44:04] <Colourless> i searched for instances of Enchanted in the usecode, and no weapon names came up
[16:44:21] * Darke doesn't think it's true either.
[16:45:17] <Darke> Admittedly it's _possible_ it could be a u8.exe internal feature, but given all the work they've put into dumping almost everything into usecode, I don't think so.
[16:46:40] <Colourless> hmm, i doubt that very much
[16:46:57] <Colourless> i don't think the word enchanted is in u8.exe
[16:47:02] <Colourless> in fact it's not
[16:51:04] * Darke thinks we can successfully consider that 'easter egg' to be false. <grin>
[16:51:34] <Colourless> :-)
[16:51:51] <Colourless> what about the ultima 9 one :-)
[16:51:58] <Dominus> just the weapon name or also the "knock back" feature?
[16:52:18] <Colourless> i would say both
[16:52:41] * Darke is minorly surprised that no-one actually checked that before. strings/grep would quite easily prove the string doesn't exist, so it can't be true. <shrug> Oh well.
[16:53:31] <Fingolfin> evere heard about "encryption" ?
[16:54:01] <Fingolfin> I don't want to suggest this is real, but I have XORed string constants in my source code years ago to prevent nosiy snoopers to see all my secret messages =)
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[16:54:08] <wjp> hi
[16:54:10] <Darke> Hi.
[16:54:12] <Fingolfin> hi
[16:54:12] <Colourless> hi
[16:54:15] <Dominus> hi
[16:54:18] <wjp> wow, that was fast
[16:54:29] <Dominus> we are all awake it seems
[16:54:41] * Dominus actually wonders about Darke :-)
[16:54:43] <Colourless> and we were all actually here
[16:54:46] <Darke> Fingolfin: It'll be easy enough to find out. All we need to do first is to get a working pentagram. The rest is easy. <grin>
[16:55:00] <Colourless> hmm
[16:55:06] <Dominus> someone could play U8...
[16:55:27] <Darke> Dominus: I'm rather close to falling asleep at the computer at the moment, so technically, I'm awake. <grin>
[16:55:33] <Colourless> it seems that 'glidexp' isn't all too stable :-)
[16:55:42] <Dominus> he he
[16:56:14] <Dominus> how is the koolsmokey's glide3, btw?
[16:56:20] <Colourless> the opengl pentagram tends to crash in windows xp, but is fine in win98
[16:56:32] <Colourless> s/the//
[16:57:15] <Darke> There's also apparently an 'AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!' easter egg. Feel like doing the honours Colourless? <grin>
[16:58:27] <Colourless> it might not be text though
[16:58:46] <Dominus> and there are sounds like that I think...
[16:59:04] * Dominus never listened to them yet
[16:59:15] <Colourless> oops :-)
[16:59:33] <wjp> huh?
[16:59:50] <wjp> ctcp sound?
[17:00:07] <Colourless> yeah, accidently dragged a wav to the channel window
[17:00:15] <wjp> :-)
[17:00:44] * Darke is thankful he wasn't wearing his earphones at the time. <grin>
[17:01:15] <Colourless> sounds 162, 177, 187 are "arrrrggghhh" type screams
[17:01:48] <Dominus> 162 could be it
[17:01:59] <Colourless> 99 is a "arrggh.... aaaarrrrrrgggghhh"
[17:02:23] <Colourless> 92 is the Avatar's falling "ARRRGGGHHH" sound
[17:02:25] <Dominus> that'S a nice one :-)
[17:02:32] <Dominus> I meant 99
[17:02:40] <Colourless> yeah i guessed as much
[17:03:46] <Colourless> 39 is the same as 92, but falling into water
[17:04:37] * Darke thinks you're having far too much fun listening to the avatar's pitiful screams...
[17:05:12] <Dominus> well, that easter egg could just be the Avatar falling of the map
[17:05:19] <Colourless> yeah could be
[17:05:37] <Colourless> the arrggghhh sound might just be triggered if the avatar falls too far
[17:05:58] <Colourless> if so, it's not an easter egg :-)
[17:06:14] <Dominus> agreed
[17:06:39] <Colourless> i know that it is possible to fall off the map, because i've done it
[17:07:05] * Darke has a mental picture of the 'pentagram team' addon to pentagram, including an 'avatar torture room' where you can poke at his likenesses and listen to all his screams.
[17:07:12] <wjp> lol
[17:07:18] <Dominus> hehe
[17:07:41] <Colourless> hehe
[17:07:52] <Colourless> it might be the only way to get people to download it
[17:07:56] <Darke> Ok... under the consideration that I'm getting _that_ surreal. I really, really think I need to sleep. Night all, and perhaps I shall see a few of you in 6 hours or so. <grin>
[17:08:03] <wjp> night
[17:08:04] <Colourless> cya
[17:08:06] <Dominus> night
[17:08:13] <-- Darke has left IRC ("Inficio-Infeci-Infectum")
[17:08:23] <wjp> latin? huh?
[17:08:42] <Colourless> and it says?
[17:09:00] <Colourless> i would guess it's the same word three times
[17:09:10] <Dominus> just different cases
[17:09:20] <wjp> different tenses of a verb
[17:09:20] <Dominus> but I don't know what it means
[17:09:30] <wjp> roughly "to infect" :-)
[17:09:43] <Colourless> hmm
[17:10:13] <wjp> also things like to mix, to colour, to poison
[17:10:43] <wjp> inficio = first person singular present, infeci = present perfect
[17:10:44] <Dominus> then I guess he meant to colour :-)
[17:11:07] <wjp> that's only an obscure meaning of the word
[17:11:15] <wjp> there's probably better verbs for it
[17:43:51] <Dominus> hmm, the "patches" don't work anymore
[17:44:02] <Colourless> patches?
[17:44:20] <Dominus> like Jeff's Studio Demo
[17:44:24] <Colourless> hmmm
[17:44:44] <Dominus> only hint:
[17:44:45] <Dominus> Error reading saved monsters. Clearing list.
[17:44:46] <Dominus> Exult Exception: Error opening file BLACKG~1\gamedat\schedule.dat
[17:44:46] <Dominus> Trying <STATIC>/schedule.dat
[17:44:58] <Dominus> in stderr
[17:45:32] <Colourless> strange
[17:46:28] <Dominus> I noticed last night and wondered if I did something wrong with the patch I made in January but it still happens with Jeff's
[17:47:32] <wjp> something probably went wrong with the new path stuff
[17:47:58] <Colourless> yeah i'm guessing so... but it looks like it may have been broken for a while....
[17:48:24] <Colourless> i've had a patch setting in my config for a while
[17:48:30] <wjp> Dominus: I'm not sure the schedules error is related
[17:48:36] <Colourless> and i haven't noticed it working
[17:48:38] <Dominus> me neither
[17:48:49] <Colourless> schedules error is expected
[17:50:12] <Dominus> I had it working not too long agao
[17:50:15] <Dominus> ago even
[17:50:23] <Dominus> but I'm not sure when exactly
[17:50:44] <Colourless> someone has messed up the <PATCH> path setting is seems
[17:50:46] <Dominus> it could have happened when wjp introduced hebble's patch
[17:50:56] <Colourless> yeah it was around then it looks
[17:51:12] <Colourless> as it seems related to hebble's mods
[17:51:22] <wjp> I'll see if I can fix it
[17:52:17] <wjp> hm, this looks very wrong
[17:52:19] <Colourless> ok, i see the problem
[17:52:26] <wjp> extra <>'s to the add call?
[17:52:42] <Colourless> <>'s in the wrong places
[17:53:04] <Colourless> move the <>'s from line 172 to line 170
[17:53:13] <wjp> what file?
[17:53:16] <Colourless> no, wait
[17:53:24] <Colourless> let me just see if it works first :-)
[17:54:02] <wjp> hm, we store things in the map with the <> included?
[17:54:25] <Colourless> yeah as far as I know we do
[17:54:31] <wjp> weird
[17:55:23] <Colourless> ok fixed it :-)
[17:55:24] <wjp> ok, fixed
[17:55:47] <Colourless> you can commit :-)
[17:56:07] <wjp> should I output the path settings in that function?
[17:56:12] <wjp> might be nice for debugging purposes
[17:56:16] <Colourless> yeah i guess so
[17:56:20] <Dominus> yup
[17:57:19] * Colourless gets back to hacking at pentagram opengl
[17:57:36] <wjp> screenshots looked pretty cool :-)
[17:57:54] <Colourless> currently it does nothing fancy
[17:58:01] <Colourless> just paints everything as a sprite :-)
[17:58:24] <wjp> what was that compressed textures thing, btw? what exactly does it mean to 'compress' textures?
[17:59:14] * wjp didn't think using them would change image quality
[17:59:14] <Colourless> modern 3d accelerators can use 4/8 bit compressed textures (DXTC/S3TC and FXT1 for 3dfx cards)
[17:59:38] <Colourless> they are generally ok for photo realistic images
[18:00:45] <Colourless> however they kind of fail whenever there are more that 2 colours with differing hues
[18:00:45] <Colourless> per macro block
[18:04:39] <Colourless> i was kind of hoping it would look ok, but really it looked terrible
[18:09:42] <wjp> committed
[19:00:47] <Colourless> restarting.. bbl
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[19:45:32] <Dominus> wow that took you long to restart :-)
[19:45:34] <Dominus> wb
[19:45:41] <Colourless> thanks
[19:45:46] <Colourless> well, i didn't just restart :-)
[20:45:14] <Fingolfin> argh now we get "adult toy" ads
[20:45:23] <wjp> yeah :/
[20:45:29] <Fingolfin> I wonder if I still should laugh or rather should slowly begin to find this annoying
[20:45:49] <wjp> definitely the latter for me
[20:45:54] <Dominus> how many ads did we get yet? 4?
[20:46:08] <Fingolfin> yeah but they are coming in shorter intervals
[20:46:13] <Dominus> that's true
[20:46:50] <Fingolfin> I will ask SF team if we can do something maybe...
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[21:00:26] <wjp> hi
[21:01:05] <Dominus> hi
[21:01:13] <Colourless> hi
[21:01:40] <Wumpus> wow
[21:01:47] <Wumpus> a hi before I even realize I'Ve got here :)
[21:01:47] <Wumpus> hello all
[21:02:06] * Wumpus watches his net connection for the signs of OPN-allergy it was displaying previousl :P
[21:16:41] <Wumpus> ahh, still on rc1
[21:16:53] * Wumpus notes that he hasn't really been away all that long... its felt like it though :-)
[21:36:52] * wjp grins at Jeff's reply to that ADLT ADV
[21:37:23] <Dominus> he he
[21:38:03] <Fingolfin> =)
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[22:10:57] <Dominus> hi
[22:11:04] <armav> hello
[22:11:33] <Fingolfin> yo
[22:16:35] <Dominus> got to go
[22:16:37] <Dominus> bye
[22:16:39] <Colourless> cya
[22:16:40] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
[22:21:55] * wjp has to go too
[22:21:58] <wjp> 'night
[22:22:03] <Colourless> cya
[22:22:06] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[22:35:06] <Wumpus> ywn
[22:35:18] <Wumpus> sleep, soon :) g'night all
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