#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Dec 2002 (GMT)

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[08:08:34] <wjp> hi
[08:09:48] <Darke> Greetings.
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[08:44:45] <Darke> 'ello.
[08:44:58] <wjp> hi
[08:45:10] <Dominus> hi
[08:46:20] <Dominus> wjp: about the need to be rgistered for attaching savegames, I think I talked once (ages ago) with Fingolfin about it
[08:47:37] <Dominus> I even had a bug report for SF in once that attaching files needed cookies to be enabled (after we got so many empty bug reports)
[08:48:22] <Dominus> that bug report sat there awhile and then came the answer: "we are disabling non-logged-in file attachements anyway" and they closed the bug :-)
[08:54:16] <Dominus> personally I don't like that idea very much
[08:56:14] * Darke understands why they might turn off anonymous file uploads, but still it's not the most convenient thing to do.
[08:57:00] <Dominus> yeah it is a two sided thing
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[13:01:51] <Colourless> hi
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[13:40:05] <wjp> hi
[13:40:12] <Colourless> hi :-)
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[14:11:07] <artaxerxes> hiya!
[14:11:15] <Colourless> hhi
[14:11:57] <artaxerxes> LouisDeFunes: I bettwa you're french! :)
[14:12:11] * Colourless resists posting in the Golden Age thread.... must not argue....
[14:12:35] * artaxerxes holds Colourless's hands from hitting the 'reply' button
[14:13:23] <LouisDeFunes> close :)
[14:13:28] * Colourless gets utterly irritated with the entire Golden Age concept
[14:13:30] <artaxerxes> I've been very loaded of work for the last month, that's why I was fairly quiet, but boy, I've really enjoyed learning new stuff!
[14:13:31] <LouisDeFunes> born there :)
[14:13:47] <artaxerxes> LouisDeFunes: me too!
[14:14:18] <artaxerxes> Colourless: some posts made sense... alas, graphics seem more important than story nowadays
[14:14:32] <artaxerxes> LouisDeFunes: where about?
[14:14:59] <LouisDeFunes> 77
[14:15:08] <LouisDeFunes> i dont live there anymore
[14:15:22] <LouisDeFunes> im in london till end of month, then im gone to tokyo
[14:15:28] <artaxerxes> nice.
[14:15:57] <artaxerxes> I've moved from 51 (Marne, Champagne-Ardennes) to Toronto (Ont, Canada)
[14:17:15] <artaxerxes> about 3 years ago
[14:17:37] <artaxerxes> Colourless: what would you post on the Golden Age thread?
[14:17:57] <Colourless> artaxerxes: it is best not said
[14:19:56] <Colourless> my opinion is basically that games now days are in no way 'worse' than old games. The problem is the gamers themselves
[14:20:28] <artaxerxes> no patience anymore.. want to finish the game in a day or two and then complain it doesn't last.
[14:21:57] <artaxerxes> anyhow... I'm putting back my mind to translation and I'm gonna update the zaurus package soon.
[14:22:14] <artaxerxes> it's been to long since I've touched any of that.
[14:23:52] <Colourless> peoples standards are just way too high
[14:25:29] <artaxerxes> what do you mean?
[14:26:05] <Colourless> it's their memories of the games they used to play. They have convinced themselves that old games are better then they actually are
[14:28:07] <Colourless> What I believe most people remember is not how good a game was, but how much better it was compared to the games that came before it
[14:29:29] <artaxerxes> but then if we follow your line of reasonning, they would also like today's games.
[14:31:05] <Colourless> i disagree. Most games post about 1994/95 have only had somwhat incremental improvement, but have had improvements none the less. The steps are no where near as big, as say the step from Wolf3D to Doom.
[14:32:46] <Colourless> for instance Deus Ex would seem to be a much better game if it weren't for System Shock 2. System Shock 2 would seem like a better game had it not been for Half-Life and so on
[14:34:54] <artaxerxes> I understand your point. I disagree somehow on one thing though: I love to play old games. I'm never tired of it (except if I play it again and again, you know which one I mean). New games have a very little re-playability factor.
[14:35:49] <Colourless> That is something that I can not explain
[14:36:20] <Colourless> (since i do it too)
[14:36:39] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[14:37:13] <artaxerxes> that wasn't long since you said: <Colourless> and then, i don't play 'old' games :-)
[14:37:17] <Colourless> i can spend hours replaying some really old simplistic game, that in all reality, I would have to say doesn't have very sophisticaed gameplay, but I can no do it with more modern games
[14:37:45] <artaxerxes> true.
[14:38:18] <artaxerxes> that's why I loaded back "Flashback". A real marvel. Even on today's standards.
[14:38:50] <Colourless> i really think that Side scrolling platformers are a special condition
[14:38:59] <Colourless> that would be because no one makes them anymore
[14:39:24] <Colourless> Flashback though is a bit of a genre bender though
[14:39:41] <artaxerxes> it's actually not a side-scroller to the real meaning of the word
[14:39:56] <Colourless> yeah, i know, it didn't scroll the screen :-)
[14:39:57] <artaxerxes> more like a side-flipper with some adventure touches
[14:41:23] <Colourless> i guess you'd call it a 2D Platformer
[14:43:21] <artaxerxes> in any case, I'd expressed my interest in porting dosbox to the zaurus. After all, all there is to be done is to check for endianness I guess
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[14:43:59] <Colourless> i don't even know what endian the ARM processors is
[14:46:22] <LouisDeFunes> it can be either
[14:46:35] <artaxerxes> I _think_ it is the opposite of intel
[14:46:46] <artaxerxes> s/intel/intel X86
[14:47:02] <Colourless> that would make it big endian
[14:47:24] <LouisDeFunes> arm can be either endian
[14:47:30] <artaxerxes> what's the bets way to check it?
[14:47:48] <LouisDeFunes> union {
[14:47:52] <LouisDeFunes> unsigned char a[4];
[14:47:54] <LouisDeFunes> int b;
[14:47:56] <LouisDeFunes> } s;
[14:47:57] <artaxerxes> LouisDeFunes: you mean on the fly?
[14:48:00] <LouisDeFunes> s.b = 0x12345678;
[14:48:06] <LouisDeFunes> printf("%02x\n", s.a[0]);'
[14:48:15] <LouisDeFunes> artaxerxes: at factory time, or at reset/reboot time
[14:48:28] <LouisDeFunes> 0x12 and its big, 0x78 and its little
[14:48:56] <Colourless> yep that's the way you can do it
[14:49:16] <LouisDeFunes> i was wondering how "difficult" it is to make a "new adventure" for use with exult
[14:49:35] <Colourless> otherwise you could just do if (s.a[0] == 0x12) printf ("Big\n"); else printf ("Little\n");
[14:50:04] <Colourless> LouisDeFunes: it depends on how involved you want your new adventure to be :-)
[14:50:45] <LouisDeFunes> colour: was thinking fo getting other ultima scripts ported across
[14:51:25] <LouisDeFunes> a wild shot, but do a u6 to u7 converter, if such would be theoritecally possible
[14:51:29] <Colourless> that is at the level of difficulty of: Dont do it unless it's your full time job and you are being paid to do it
[14:51:41] <Colourless> it would be 'very' difficult to write an entire game
[14:52:01] <Colourless> an u6->u7 converter is pretty much impossible
[14:52:10] <Colourless> the engines are just too different
[14:52:14] <LouisDeFunes> oh
[14:52:16] <LouisDeFunes> shame
[14:52:23] <LouisDeFunes> i was hoping they would have similarities
[14:53:55] <Colourless> other than a similar perspective, there is very little similar
[14:54:14] <LouisDeFunes> what about u5->u6 ?
[14:54:15] <Colourless> u7 is closer to u8 than it is to u6
[14:55:30] <Colourless> u5->u6 would be pretty hard since u5 didn't had a dual scale world
[14:55:44] <Colourless> s/u5 didn't/u6 didn't/
[14:55:57] <Colourless> but that's not to say it would be impossible
[14:56:41] <LouisDeFunes> you mean the different "floors" were on the same level?
[14:57:15] <wjp> dual-scale = cities had a different scale than the world map
[14:57:24] <LouisDeFunes> ah
[14:58:12] <artaxerxes> it says 78
[14:58:23] <LouisDeFunes> little endian then
[14:58:32] <artaxerxes> like x86
[14:58:35] <artaxerxes> neat
[14:58:38] <artaxerxes> less work
[14:58:46] <artaxerxes> hi wjp!
[14:59:13] <artaxerxes> how where the dunjeons in u5 ?
[14:59:35] <Colourless> they were 3D
[15:00:02] <artaxerxes> oups
[15:00:15] <Colourless> u6 was the first game that didn't have 3d dungones
[15:00:26] <LouisDeFunes> u5 was my first u
[15:00:28] <Colourless> s/dungones/dungeons/
[15:00:30] <artaxerxes> that'd be a pain too
[15:00:50] <wjp> hi artaxerxes
[15:00:52] <LouisDeFunes> when i first played it i dismissed it totally
[15:00:53] <Colourless> each ultima manages to be sufficently different to the previous games to make proting them to a newer engine is very very difficult. the easiest is actually u7->u8, but you then have the problem of the u8 world isn't continuous
[15:00:53] <wjp> bye :-)
[15:00:56] <LouisDeFunes> "crap gfx", etc.. :P
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[15:01:03] <artaxerxes> bye!
[15:01:13] <LouisDeFunes> but after a while, ig ot enlighted
[15:01:19] <LouisDeFunes> finest u i played
[15:02:01] <artaxerxes> wouldn't a u1->u2->u3 easy to make ?
[15:02:13] <artaxerxes> and maybe even u[1-3] -> u4 ?
[15:03:34] <Colourless> u1 and u2 were similarish
[15:03:46] <Colourless> u3 managed to be a bit different
[15:04:20] <LouisDeFunes> kind of puts down the "reusing code is good" ;)
[15:04:35] <Colourless> each ultima had a rewritten engine
[15:05:10] <Colourless> the only time i know of any extensive code reuse was from Akalabeth to Ultima 1. The same dungeon renderer code was used in both
[15:06:59] <artaxerxes> I find it hard to see any difference between, say, u3 and u4.
[15:07:08] <artaxerxes> besides the spells maybe and the story
[15:07:18] <Colourless> u3 is just different :-)
[15:07:22] <artaxerxes> the moongates too
[15:07:51] --> Niko- has joined #exult
[15:08:04] <Niko-> hi
[15:08:12] <Colourless> hi
[15:08:21] <Niko-> whats up?
[15:08:46] <Colourless> me
[15:08:52] <Colourless> :-)
[15:08:56] <Niko-> well yes? =D
[15:09:50] <Niko-> is there somekinda chance to hit thing in exult?
[15:10:29] <Colourless> yeah there is
[15:10:50] <Niko-> "My guess would be chance-to-hit is too low to hit eachother"
[15:11:05] <Niko-> got this answer yesterday
[15:11:18] <artaxerxes> just d/l gnuwin2.1 (thx to ./)... seems like a nice compilation of open-source projects running on windows!
[15:11:56] <artaxerxes> I wished I had that CD in my univ years!
[15:12:45] <Colourless> too bad you've got to know about it to find it
[15:13:12] <Niko-> is there item list somewhere? i was wondering if i could create bucket of ethical water so i could skip that batlin bug..
[15:13:44] <artaxerxes> there is no such a thing as the batlin bug IIRC
[15:14:02] <artaxerxes> Colourless: ??
[15:14:24] <Niko-> artaxerxes: well can you tell me why batlin cant kill me?
[15:14:25] <Colourless> artaxerxes: you obviously do not know the problem we are talking about :-(
[15:15:04] <artaxerxes> oh I think I do... in the realm of dreams, right?
[15:15:12] <Niko-> nope
[15:15:12] <Colourless> nope
[15:15:14] <artaxerxes> ah
[15:15:17] <Niko-> temple of ethic
[15:15:17] <artaxerxes> sorry
[15:15:56] <Niko-> so any idea?
[15:16:18] <Colourless> Niko-: i don't think exult will allow you to create a bucket of water of ethicallity
[15:16:43] <Niko-> are you sure?
[15:16:51] <Colourless> i'm just checking
[15:17:01] <Niko-> arent there unique item code for each item?
[15:17:41] <Colourless> yes each item does have some way of identifying it, but i don't think exult will allow you to give all the details
[15:17:52] <Niko-> ah
[15:18:16] <Colourless> if i'm not mistaken you need to use a quality value to choose water of ethicallity, and you can't do that 'yet' in exult
[15:18:33] <Niko-> i also tried to load older savegame, but the bug was still @ batlin
[15:19:26] <Colourless> Niko-: however, i have another 'idea'. You could attempt to give batlin a weapon and see if that helps things out
[15:19:39] <Niko-> hmm
[15:19:41] <Niko-> hack mover?
[15:20:14] <Colourless> you'd do that by using Ctrl-B and browsing to a sufficently powerful weapon (such as 2h sword) and creating one using Ctrl-C (when you are back in the game world)
[15:20:28] <Colourless> then item will be created in the avatars Inventory
[15:20:36] <Colourless> then enable 'Pick Pocket Mode'
[15:20:49] <Colourless> double click on batlin and equip the weapon on him
[15:21:02] <Colourless> then turn off pick pocket mode
[15:21:54] <artaxerxes> or even a glass sword
[15:22:23] <Colourless> no, not a glass sword, it need to last more than one hit
[15:22:49] <Niko-> hmm
[15:22:51] <artaxerxes> and you could lower your stats using the cheat screen
[15:23:00] <artaxerxes> and higher Batlin's
[15:23:09] <Niko-> magebane?
[15:23:17] <Niko-> lowering stats doesnt help
[15:23:22] <Niko-> ive already tried that
[15:23:39] <Colourless> yeah magebane should be pretty decent
[15:24:56] <Niko-> hmm so i just browse to magebane, then exit and ctrl c ?
[15:25:05] <artaxerxes> yup
[15:25:05] <Colourless> yes
[15:25:08] <artaxerxes> or insert
[15:25:14] <artaxerxes> depends which version you use
[15:25:33] <Colourless> artaxerxes: please give 'useful' information :-)
[15:25:35] <Niko-> 1.00
[15:25:45] <Colourless> use Ctrl-C
[15:25:48] <Niko-> hmm
[15:26:02] <artaxerxes> with 1.1.0 I had to use Insert (under Linux)
[15:26:19] <artaxerxes> since ctrl-c wasn't originally mapped to create item
[15:26:21] <Niko-> "can only create from shapes.vga"
[15:26:41] <Colourless> what item are you selected on in the browser?
[15:27:06] <Niko-> well theres picture of fire sword
[15:27:19] <Colourless> what file does it say?
[15:27:28] <Niko-> hmm oh theres paperdoll..
[15:27:44] <Colourless> use the 'v' key to change file
[15:28:58] <Niko-> hmm and this pickpocket mode?
[15:29:17] <Colourless> Ctrl-Alt-P
[15:31:13] <Niko-> he cant hurt avatar
[15:31:42] <Niko-> heh funny thing, batlin seems to be woman in paperdoll :)
[15:32:05] <Colourless> yes, that's the default paperdoll
[15:32:13] <Niko-> right :)
[15:34:48] <Niko-> hmm wtf is wrong with this :)
[15:35:02] <Colourless> i have no idea
[15:35:18] <Niko-> and you cant try it yourself?
[15:35:53] <Colourless> i think i could check
[15:36:22] <Niko-> that would be great
[15:37:49] <Niko-> i think i need a beer...
[15:38:43] <Colourless> ok, it is a chance to hit problem
[15:39:00] <Niko-> so what to do now?
[15:39:06] <Colourless> i just modified your stats and he can hurt you
[15:39:24] <Niko-> hmm
[15:40:51] <Niko-> how much did you lower stats?
[15:41:45] <Niko-> 1 to everything seemed to work.. :)
[15:41:50] <Colourless> ok, go into the F2 Menu, edit npc 0, [S]tats then lower [C]ombat Skill
[15:41:54] <Niko-> i tried 20 to each but i quess it wasnt enough
[15:42:08] <Colourless> a level of 12 for combat skill was enough for me
[15:42:38] <Colourless> you will probably want to but your combat skill back up to 30 :-)
[15:43:10] <Niko-> i used trainer in sleeping bull to boost combat up
[15:43:28] <Colourless> i guess i'll add to the bug report what the problem is
[15:44:00] <Niko-> hmm hehh
[15:44:28] <Niko-> does 30 combat skill make avatar immortal? :)
[15:44:44] <Colourless> no, it shouldn't
[15:46:36] <Niko-> maybe this bug happens without exult too?
[15:46:55] <Colourless> i doubt it
[15:47:29] <Colourless> we know our combat damage calc code isn't entirely correct, in fact we know next to nothing about how it worked in the original
[15:47:51] <Niko-> hehhe
[15:47:58] <Niko-> btw, which weapon is "best" ?
[15:48:27] <matto|wookin> the Death Scythe!
[15:49:06] <Niko-> hmm havent seen that yet
[15:49:14] <Colourless> that's BG only
[15:49:25] <Niko-> ok
[15:49:29] <Niko-> in SI?
[15:49:37] <Colourless> in SI, i'm not entirely sure, but Inifinty bows are pretty decent
[15:49:41] <Niko-> this belt of str is weirdo too
[15:50:09] <Niko-> im not even wearing it and theres bonus in str
[15:50:45] <Colourless> it's probably because exult doesn't realize it was removed
[15:51:31] <Niko-> that might be the reason, because i cant put it on either
[15:52:30] <Colourless> you should be able to put it on, are you sure there isn't something else in the belt slot?
[15:52:38] <Colourless> such as a bag, or a weapon?
[15:53:39] <Niko-> ah stupid me, there was a bag.. :)
[15:54:03] <Niko-> belt seems to raise str when hold in hand too
[15:54:34] <Colourless> that sounds like a bug
[15:55:50] <Niko-> yep
[15:55:53] <Niko-> have you tried uo?
[15:56:07] <Colourless> no
[15:56:50] <Niko-> oki
[15:58:51] <Niko-> so you have completed bg too?
[15:59:08] <Colourless> yeah
[15:59:31] <Niko-> is there items such as keyring or reagent ring?
[15:59:56] <Colourless> no
[16:00:11] <Colourless> they are only in The Silver Seed expansion in SI
[16:00:30] <Niko-> and there is no way to transfer them into bg?
[16:01:42] <Niko-> oh but alt k works in bg too i suppose? so you dont really need keyring..
[16:02:06] <Colourless> yes, but that is an exult addition
[16:02:43] <Colourless> in theory the keyring could be transfered but it wouldn't be that simple to do
[16:03:53] <Niko-> okay
[16:03:58] <Niko-> but hey, thanks a lot
[16:04:05] <Niko-> im off to play now :)
[16:04:18] <Colourless> cya
[16:04:19] <Niko-> cya later
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[16:29:58] <Colourless> cya
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[18:28:58] <artaxerxes> flashface.flashmaster.ru
[18:29:05] <artaxerxes> that IS awesome!
[19:01:15] <artaxerxes> gotta go
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[21:06:04] <artaxerxes> hi again
[21:06:15] <artaxerxes> anyone having pb accessing the forum ?
[21:08:27] <artaxerxes> well well... I have to leave again
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[22:07:05] <DominatoR^^^HC> hi to all
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[22:58:12] <Fingolfin> hiya
[22:58:20] <Dark-Star> hi
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