#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Jan 2002 (GMT)

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[00:23:55] <artaxerxes> see ya all
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[08:07:46] * Darke bows. "Hi."
[08:08:31] * matto bowfluffs. "Hello and good day to you."
[08:10:51] * Darke earperks, and wonders where matto got all that fluff from. <innocent-query-wiggle>
[08:11:09] <matto> from the birds around here
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[08:42:27] <Amy> Wheeeee.
[08:42:56] <Amy> Hey, Darke.
[08:43:08] <Amy> I got bored, and looked at Worldforge again, for the first time in like two years.
[08:51:28] <Darke> Hello again. Worldforge?
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[08:52:24] <Kirben> anyone able to still compile exult studio ?
[08:52:25] <Darke> Ahh... that opensource MMORPG thing?
[08:52:42] <Darke> Just a sec. I'll try.
[08:53:06] <Kirben> I get this error on link myself:
[08:53:07] <Kirben> shapewrite.o(.text+0x75c):shapewrite.cc: undefined reference to `Armor_info::wri
[08:53:07] <Kirben> te(int, ostream &)'
[08:59:39] <Darke> I've got errors in shapewrite.cc too... just a sec, they look easy to fix.
[09:04:11] <Darke> Hmm... ok, looks like I've got something similar.
[09:05:22] * Amy unidles.
[09:05:30] <Amy> Yeah. Worldforge has progressed a lot in the last couple of years.
[09:05:40] <Amy> In particular, I think some of their work could be useful for Exult.
[09:06:58] <Darke> <nod> It's been... ages since I looked at it as well.
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[09:34:26] <Amy> In particular, their HUGE collection of reusable art.
[09:34:42] * Darke earperks. He didn't see that.
[09:36:42] <Darke> Kirben2: exult_studio 'works' for me, after a couple of minor fixes. I'll commit in a moment.
[09:41:38] <Kirben2> ok thanks
[09:41:38] --- Kirben2 is now known as Kirben
[09:43:19] <Darke> Just commited. Like the ChangeLog comment says, it 'seems' to work. <grin>
[09:53:50] <Amy> Yeah. All of their art (and nice art it is) is under the GFPL.
[09:53:58] <Amy> Check out the Acorn screenshots.
[09:55:31] <Kirben> odd same error on win32
[10:06:32] <Darke> Try adding this to shapewrite.cc: void Armor_info::write(int shapenum, std::ostream& mfile) {};
[10:07:28] <Darke> It looks like Armor_info::write was declared in Armor_info, and just not implemented. I don't have any idea if it'll solve your problem though, since I can't reproduce it here.
[10:08:08] <Kirben> that worked
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[10:12:23] <Kirben2> So Armor_info isn't declared at all, odd that error only occurs on win32.
[10:16:02] <Darke> It looks like it. If it's not actually referenced in the code, theoretically it shouldn't have to be declared. I've used that 'feature' a number of times to add 'prototype' functions that I've needed to remember to code sometime in the future.
[10:25:15] <Amy> Weird.
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[11:27:34] <Fingolfin> hi
[11:27:51] <Darke> Hello.
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[12:50:59] <Colourless> hi
[12:51:43] <Darke> Odd... using std::strstream is 0.15 seconds slower (under testing with ucxt) then using std::stringstream. I would have expected it to be the other way around...
[12:51:47] <Darke> Hi Colourless. <bow>
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[13:05:23] <Fingolfin> one is for char*
[13:05:28] <Fingolfin> the other for std::string
[13:05:31] <Fingolfin> I think
[13:05:43] <Fingolfin> oh, an hi ryan =)
[13:05:49] <Colourless> hi
[13:06:12] <Fingolfin> strstream is also deprecated
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[14:29:35] <Dominus> exultbot: hi
[14:29:35] <exultbot> Hi Dominus!
[14:30:12] <artaxerxes> hi exultbot
[14:30:40] <artaxerxes> Actually, never mind the link I gave... It is a remake of u6, not the original...
[14:34:32] * artaxerxes found a better link at www.geocities.com/xenerkes
[14:36:26] <Dominus> ah, ultimatrix
[14:48:51] <Colourless> grr, stupid initialized variables!@
[14:52:23] <Colourless> shapeinfo now works
[14:55:32] <Dominus> bah I hate those porn icq messages
[14:58:40] <Darke> Agreed. Along with all the other annoying spam messages.
[14:58:55] <Colourless> i rarely get any
[14:59:10] <Dominus> I get one or two icq spams a day
[14:59:23] <Dominus> and about three email ones a day
[14:59:45] <Colourless> i get quite a few emails
[14:59:57] <Dominus> especiall "This really works!" gets on my nerves
[15:00:19] * Darke only gets about one a day, both icq and email.
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[15:01:49] <Dominus> trying to compile exult-studio I get g++: cannot specify -o with -c or -S and multiple compilations
[15:01:50] <Dominus> make: *** [chunklst.o] Error 1
[15:02:11] <Colourless> yeah
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[15:02:19] <Colourless> that sort of things is a problem :-)
[15:02:27] <Colourless> the solution is really simple :-)
[15:02:53] <Dominus> don't try to compile it? :-)
[15:03:27] <Colourless> if you go into the make files you'll the lines for GTK_INCLUDES, GTK_LIBS, LIBGLADE_INCLUDES and LIBGLADE_LIBS
[15:04:13] <Dominus> I see them
[15:04:14] <Colourless> the makefile is setup to automatically work these out using the pkg-config program.
[15:04:32] <Colourless> This doesn't work unless you are using the cygwin shell
[15:04:40] <Dominus> ah
[15:05:08] <Colourless> so you need to maually run pkg-config with the correct options and manually set the 4 options
[15:05:23] <Dominus> bah
[15:05:45] <Colourless> if you don't want to you don't have to edit the make files
[15:06:10] <Colourless> you can use the same method as enabling the midi sfx in exult and forcing 44khz sound
[15:07:16] <Dominus> like GTK_INCLUDES=path to it?
[15:07:48] <Colourless> you run this at the command prompt: pkg-config --cflags gtk+-1.3-win32-production
[15:08:10] <Colourless> you copy it's output and do GTK_INCLUDES=(the output from the command)
[15:08:46] <Dominus> ok and this for all the pkg config stuff
[15:08:53] <Colourless> yeah
[15:09:04] <Dominus> okay
[15:09:10] <Colourless> you just run the commands between the 2 `
[15:09:24] <Colourless> and use the output as the definition
[15:09:37] <Dominus> k, I'll try now
[15:17:47] <Dominus> ok that puts out an error that the application (pkg-config?) can't start because it can't find libglib-1.3-12.dll
[15:18:12] <Colourless> did you copy the dlls into the bin dir?
[15:18:55] <Dominus> nope, I just extracted the files to the dirs Kirben said in the instructions and set my path to include the lib dir
[15:19:33] <Kirben> did you read instructions ?
[15:20:13] <Dominus> yup
[15:20:33] <Kirben> then try moving *.dll to bin
[15:21:50] <Dominus> there is only one dll
[15:22:04] <Dominus> libintl-1.dll
[15:22:33] <Colourless> you'll need to download them
[15:23:21] <Dominus> are the ones that come with the packaged exultstudio okay?
[15:23:42] <Colourless> yeah, that should be them
[15:24:09] <Dominus> Kirben: those were missing from your instructions and the files to download
[15:24:48] <Kirben> they should be included in the dev packages
[15:25:15] <Kirben> all except libxzml.dll which you only need ot run
[15:25:40] <Colourless> not included
[15:25:51] <Dominus> yep, they aren't
[15:26:07] <Colourless> just checked myself, no dlls in the zips
[15:26:43] <Dominus> alltogether there were just glade-0.17.dll and libintl-1.dll in all the files
[15:32:59] <Kirben> did you donwload right files ?
[15:33:30] <Kirben> nevermind your right
[15:33:40] * Kirben slaps Kirben around a bit with a large trout
[15:35:18] <Kirben> I'm forgot because the older dev packages included the dlls
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[15:38:59] <sbx> artaxerxes!
[15:39:10] * Darke bows. "Hi."
[15:39:15] <Dominus> hi
[15:39:41] <sbx> et al
[15:39:41] <sbx> :-)
[15:40:15] <sbx> when is the linuxformat awards over?
[15:40:22] <sbx> So we can find out if Exult won.
[15:44:28] <Darke> No idea, I'm sure slashdot will have a mention of it when it is though. <grin>
[15:47:05] <Dominus> Problem with compile, still persists
[15:47:48] <Dominus> pkg-config --cflags gtk+-1.3-win32-production gives out two paths
[15:48:10] <Colourless> i've made a program and bat file that should automatically fix your problem
[15:48:27] <sbx> Is it a "good thing" for Exult to be /.'ed? ^_^
[15:48:50] <Dominus> you could try to dcc but better put it on your webspace (our slow connect always)
[15:49:04] <Darke> Hmm... A haiku: Problem with compile; still persists; exult studio. (Don't mind me, it's just that silly time of night. <grin>)
[15:49:24] <Dominus> he he
[15:49:32] <Darke> sbx: Yes. It'll knock us to the top of sourceforge.net. <grin>
[15:50:20] <Darke> Dominus: It just lacks a reference to a season... but I don't know how to add that wilst retaining the context.
[15:50:45] <Colourless> just use the bat file to compile exult studio
[15:51:20] <Colourless> kirben, you should probably put it up on the webpage
[15:52:00] <Dominus> he he
[15:52:08] <Kirben> ok dcc
[15:52:09] <Dominus> should be make .... install
[15:52:17] <artaxerxes> sbx!
[15:53:04] <Colourless> make_studio install wont work 'properly' since it uses cp and mkdir -p
[15:55:07] <Dominus> but this way it only builds exultstudioico.o
[15:55:37] <Colourless> yeah, you'll need to edit the make file to fix that
[15:56:11] <Colourless> move the "exultstudioico.o : ..." section to below yjr "$(EXEC): ..." section
[15:56:25] <Colourless> s/yjr/the/
[15:56:53] <Colourless> i should commit all my changes so things work more properly
[15:58:11] * sbx yjr's.
[15:58:12] <Dominus> g++: Flat.o: No such file or directory
[15:58:12] <Dominus> g++: Flex.o: No such file or directory
[15:58:16] <Dominus> and so on
[15:58:45] <Colourless> do a make clean on exult
[16:00:03] <Dominus> shapewrite.o(.text+0x75c):shapewrite.cc: undefined reference to `Armor_info::wri
[16:00:03] <Dominus> te(int, ostream &)'
[16:00:03] <Dominus> make.exe: *** [exult_studio.dll] Error 1
[16:00:20] <Colourless> blame jeff for that
[16:00:50] * Dominus follows Colourless instructions and blames Jeff
[16:00:52] <Dominus> :-)
[16:01:15] <Colourless> edit shapes\shapeinf.h line 168 and change it to: void write(int shapenum, std::ostream& mfile) { }
[16:01:37] <Colourless> note that the only change is the ; has been changed to { }
[16:02:07] <Colourless> you'll need to do a clean, then recompile
[16:04:07] <Darke> Colourless: As a random question, any idea why that error appears on win32, but not under unix? I just found it... umm... puzzling. <grin>
[16:04:35] <Colourless> have you tried to compile exult studio?
[16:04:55] <Colourless> more specfically, today with current cvs?
[16:05:08] * Darke nods. From today's cvs, it apparently compiles
[16:05:25] <Colourless> well, Armor_info::write is definately missing
[16:05:46] <Darke> Is it actually called though?
[16:05:51] <Colourless> in exult studio
[16:06:05] <Darke> Ahh... despite the fact it does nothing. <grin>
[16:06:18] <Colourless> jeff didn't commit one file
[16:06:22] * Darke goes to make clean
[16:06:28] * Darke goes to make clean; make... just to check things.
[16:08:46] <Darke> Odd... exult_studio compiles fine. Maybe I fixed it in my local copy. I don't think so though.
[16:09:36] <Colourless> ah, i know why
[16:10:16] <Colourless> the call to the missing Armor_info::write is done in Shapes_vga_file::write_info, which isn't actually called by anything
[16:14:36] * Darke is not sure whether that's a 'bug' or a 'feature' under unix... <grin>
[16:15:42] <Colourless> the windows should do it to, except for the hack required to get auto-connect to work
[16:16:05] <Colourless> s/the windows/windows/
[16:19:50] * Darke nods.
[16:27:09] * Darke must sleep. "Night all."
[16:27:14] <Colourless> cya
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[17:05:10] <wjp> hi all
[17:05:23] <Dominus> hi
[17:05:23] <Colourless> hi
[17:06:43] * wjp is puzzled at Colourless' last 3 emails
[17:06:50] <sbx> hi
[17:07:19] <Colourless> :shapewrite.o(.text+0x754):shapewrite.cc: undefined reference to `Armor_info::write(int, ostream &)'
[17:07:38] <wjp> "only a problem when compiling it in windows" ?
[17:07:51] <Colourless> yeah, it's not causing a problem for Linux
[17:08:00] <wjp> kind of weird
[17:08:32] <Colourless> could be to do with the way automake works
[17:08:47] <wjp> broken build order?
[17:09:11] <Colourless> ??
[17:09:36] <wjp> automake is really broken wrt dependencies between directories
[17:10:35] <wjp> hm, is Armor_info::write actually called anywhere?
[17:10:41] <Colourless> yeah it is
[17:10:49] <Colourless> in Shape_info::write
[17:10:54] <Colourless> but that isn't called
[17:12:04] <wjp> strange
[17:13:10] <Colourless> when automake creates a library for each dir, it probably doesn't check for undefined references. since Shape_info::write isn't called, it isn't included in the final executable when linked, so Armor_info::write never gets reference
[17:13:37] <wjp> oh, that's what you meant.
[17:14:18] <wjp> no, gcc/ar/whatever doesn't (and can't) check for undefined references when creating the libraries
[17:20:24] <Colourless> using ar to create an .a out of shapewrite.o and then linking with shapewrite.a worked
[17:20:59] * wjp is starting to get more and more annoyed at the way automake handles subdirs
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[17:30:27] --- Topic for #exult is: USECODE! the secret Power of Ultima 7 (and Ultima 8!) and Exult! Or how to waste $ 3,080,278 ! Vote for exult at http://linuxformat.co.uk/awards!
[17:30:27] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Fri Jan 11 14:46:43 2002
[17:30:51] <Dominus> see this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1321631347
[17:31:33] <wjp> lol
[17:32:01] <Dominus> that was posted on the x3dfx forum
[17:48:56] <Dominus> now why is only the dll made by compiling exult studio?
[17:49:10] <Colourless> wait a minute or 2
[17:49:19] <Dominus> okey dokey
[17:49:56] <Colourless> i'm going to commit all sorts of new things that will no longer require a dll to be created at all
[17:50:24] <Dominus> okay (and make the makefile a bit less of a pain?) :-)
[17:50:48] <Colourless> umm, kind of, but not too much :-)
[18:02:36] <Colourless> if you want to compile it all, do make_studio install
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[18:15:40] <sbx> hi
[18:15:50] <Colourless> hi
[18:18:51] <Colourless> ok, dominus, i've committed my changes
[18:20:08] <Colourless> one of the changes is that exult will now be compiled with exult studio support. while the communications still need to be written, Ctrl-Alt-M will now lanuch exult studio. Remember though, exult_studio.exe needs to be in the same directory as exult, and exult_studio.glade needs to be in the data dir
[18:20:27] <Dominus> yeah, okay
[18:35:00] <Dominus> okay, works (save for mkdir but then I know how to do handle that)
[18:35:28] <Colourless> i personally just edited the bat file to do that install stuff itselfg
[18:46:06] <sbx> gotsta go :-)
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[19:08:33] <Dominik> got to go now
[19:08:34] <Dominik> bye
[19:08:38] <Colourless> cya
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[19:20:03] <artaxerxes> anyone has tried VDMS to play music for DOS games on WinNT ?
[19:20:10] <Colourless> i have
[19:20:17] <Colourless> well, on Win2k and WinXP
[19:20:23] <artaxerxes> did you manage to make it wokr?
[19:20:26] <Colourless> yeah
[19:20:32] <artaxerxes> s/wokr/work/
[19:20:40] <Colourless> which game are you trying?
[19:20:57] <artaxerxes> when I want to play savage empire, there is no sound and SE says: no EMS detected.
[19:21:12] <Colourless> does it need ems?
[19:21:32] <artaxerxes> it needs ems to play music.
[19:22:29] <Colourless> ok, setting up ems is easy
[19:22:38] <artaxerxes> Ahhh.. I am all ears
[19:23:11] <Colourless> do you attempt to run it doing a right click, the "Run with VDMS"?
[19:23:21] <artaxerxes> yup
[19:23:54] <Colourless> ok, this is pretty easy. go into your vdms dir (usually c:\program files\vdmsound)
[19:24:15] <Colourless> right click on vdmsrun and get properties
[19:24:39] <artaxerxes> ok
[19:24:42] <Colourless> in memory chose the options you want. I have it set to 8192 for XMS, EMS and DPMI
[19:25:12] <artaxerxes> HMA on ?
[19:25:17] <Colourless> also make sure you know the sound card configuration that VDMS is using to emulate. all the setting are in vdms.ini
[19:25:22] <artaxerxes> Protected ?
[19:25:46] <Colourless> HMA yeah. proctected probably isn't needed
[19:28:24] <artaxerxes> humm.. doesn't work
[19:28:37] <Colourless> what is happening?
[19:28:58] <Colourless> what music decive did you choose?
[19:29:34] <artaxerxes> it says "No EMS found; no music possible."
[19:29:59] <artaxerxes> I configured SE to play SB sounds... I am sure that has nothing to do with it.
[19:31:09] <Colourless> did this: go into your winnt\system32 dir and find command.com. Right click on it and choose "Run with VDMS"
[19:32:11] <Colourless> then at the prompt type mem
[19:32:47] <artaxerxes> ok
[19:32:53] <artaxerxes> I've got an error
[19:33:02] <artaxerxes> a pop up comes up and says:
[19:33:18] <artaxerxes> VDMSound 2.0.4 - DOS prompt
[19:33:31] <artaxerxes> Error while setting up environment for the application
[19:33:42] <Colourless> ok, try doing it to cmd.exe
[19:33:43] <artaxerxes> Then there is 2 buttons: Terminate and Ignore
[19:33:54] <Colourless> you'll still get the error
[19:33:57] <Colourless> then doing it a second time
[19:34:01] <artaxerxes> same with cmd.exe
[19:34:20] <Colourless> yeah, then type mem again. cmd shouldn't exit after the error
[19:34:29] <artaxerxes> when I do it a second time it works, but I bet I've lost VDMS
[19:34:38] <Colourless> yeah you should have.
[19:34:40] <Colourless> what does mem say?
[19:34:59] <artaxerxes> 655k of total conv. mem
[19:35:06] <artaxerxes> 655k avail to dos
[19:35:15] <artaxerxes> 581k largest exec.
[19:35:33] <artaxerxes> 1048k total contin. extended mem.
[19:35:45] <Colourless> ok
[19:35:50] <artaxerxes> 0k avail. contiguous extended mem.
[19:36:03] <Colourless> that didn't work as I would have liked
[19:36:03] <artaxerxes> 931k avail. XMS memory
[19:36:24] <artaxerxes> same feelings here.... :)
[19:38:09] <artaxerxes> maybe I should downgrade my version of DVMS
[19:38:15] <Colourless> no, do this
[19:38:26] <Colourless> right click on mem and do run with vdms. that should work
[19:38:56] <artaxerxes> ok:
[19:39:22] <artaxerxes> 655k total conv. mem 655k avail. to dos, 625k largest exec.
[19:39:46] <artaxerxes> 16777k (16M) total cont. extended mem.
[19:40:05] <Colourless> hmm no ems reported
[19:40:06] <artaxerxes> 0 k avail. contiguous extended mem.
[19:40:21] <artaxerxes> 8323k avail xms mem
[19:40:49] <artaxerxes> my autoexec.vdma and config.vdms have NO reference to ems
[19:40:57] <artaxerxes> no even a ems386
[19:41:08] <artaxerxes> s/no/not/
[19:41:18] <Colourless> yeah, they wont
[19:41:51] <Colourless> what is in your config.vdms?
[19:42:31] <artaxerxes> START OF FILE
[19:42:39] <artaxerxes> dos=high, umb
[19:42:42] <artaxerxes> emm=RAM
[19:43:03] <artaxerxes> device=%systemRoot%\system32\himem.sys
[19:43:09] <artaxerxes> files=40
[19:43:15] <artaxerxes> buffers=40
[19:43:22] <artaxerxes> fcbs=4,0
[19:43:30] <artaxerxes> stacks=9,256
[19:43:32] <artaxerxes> END OF FILE
[19:44:22] <Colourless> same here. can you double check the vdmsrun shortcut and be sure that the values in the memory tab are correct
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[19:45:06] <artaxerxes> Colourless? are you still here?
[19:45:33] <artaxerxes> Conventional mem: Total = Auto ; Initial Env = 4096
[19:45:42] <artaxerxes> Not protected
[19:45:57] <artaxerxes> Expanded (EMS) mem: Total = 8192
[19:46:20] <artaxerxes> Extented (XMS) mem: Toal = 8192, Uses HMA = on
[19:46:39] <artaxerxes> MS-DOOS protected mode (DPMI) mem: Total = 8192
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[19:50:48] <artaxerxes> Welcome back
[19:50:56] <artaxerxes> Let me repeat what you missed:
[19:51:01] <artaxerxes> Conventional mem: Total = Auto ; Initial Env = 4096
[19:51:05] <artaxerxes> Not protected
[19:51:10] <artaxerxes> Expanded (EMS) mem: Total = 8192
[19:51:13] <artaxerxes> Extented (XMS) mem: Toal = 8192, Uses HMA = on
[19:51:21] <artaxerxes> MS-OOS protected mode (DPMI) mem: Total = 8192
[19:51:23] <Colourless> do uses HMA = yes
[19:51:54] <artaxerxes> It is on
[19:52:18] <Colourless> ah ok :-)
[19:52:24] <Colourless> i thought you wrote no :-)
[19:52:27] <artaxerxes> :)
[19:52:56] <Colourless> what's in your autoexec.vdms
[19:53:14] <artaxerxes> START OF FILE
[19:53:24] <artaxerxes> @echo off
[19:53:31] <artaxerxes> set classpath=
[19:53:38] <artaxerxes> ser include=
[19:53:43] <artaxerxes> (sorry: set include)
[19:53:49] <artaxerxes> set lib=
[19:53:57] <artaxerxes> set msdevdir=
[19:54:19] <artaxerxes> lh %systemroot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe
[19:54:24] <artaxerxes> END OF FILE
[19:54:32] <artaxerxes> (I skipped the REM lines).
[19:54:48] <artaxerxes> I had to activate the CD to play Monkey Island 1
[19:55:48] <Colourless> ooh, i see the problem
[19:56:10] <Colourless> add this to the file:
[19:56:10] <Colourless> lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx.exe
[19:56:24] <artaxerxes> yes?
[19:56:38] <Colourless> yeah
[19:57:19] <artaxerxes> I had it but I REM'd it because I read on the VDMS forum that could help some games.
[19:57:26] <artaxerxes> let's try again
[19:57:33] <Colourless> yeah, but it's needed by most :-)
[19:57:51] <artaxerxes> still no EMS
[19:59:43] <artaxerxes> and VDMS on cmd.exe and command.com and running mem produce the same error as before
[20:05:56] <Colourless> yeah, they will
[20:06:28] <Colourless> it's strange
[20:08:03] <artaxerxes> WinNT sp6
[20:08:15] <artaxerxes> I wish I could run that game on linux
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[20:13:08] <Colourless> i don't know how to help. the problem has to be something small and silly really
[20:13:57] <artaxerxes> Woohoo... I've got Dune running fine
[20:14:29] <artaxerxes> It used to be choppy and unplayably slow but it got great when I turned debug messages offf
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[20:16:11] <Colourless> heh
[20:16:14] <Colourless> hi
[20:18:46] <artaxerxes> it is really weird.. and annoying at that.. I would love to hear again the sound of SE
[20:19:17] <Colourless> just keep working at it. you'll probably get it eventually
[20:21:20] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[20:41:51] <artaxerxes> when I think about it, I've got 3 floppies with dos 6.22 on it (setup disks)... anyone knows if I can use those disks to run dos on linux?
[20:42:02] <artaxerxes> xdos is the command I think.
[20:42:18] <artaxerxes> but it needs a dos to execute (comes with dr-dos)
[20:44:49] <Fingolfin> how about FreeDOS ?
[20:45:13] <Fingolfin> http://freedos.org/
[20:45:20] <artaxerxes> after verifying, it is running FreeDos... but FreeDos and dr-dos are the same anyways
[20:46:57] <Fingolfin> hu?
[20:47:53] <artaxerxes> dr-dos stopped (now affiliated to Caldera) and Freedos continued from where they stopped.
[20:48:02] <Fingolfin> artaxerxes: that is not correct, AFAIK
[20:48:11] <Fingolfin> quote: "FreeDOS is not a derivation of MS-DOS - we are not using or referring to any Microsoft code. We are instead using the description of the MS-DOS program as given in publications (such as the user manual) to create a program of our own that follows that spec."
[20:48:34] <Fingolfin> can you point me to some place where it says that FreeDOS is based on DR-DOS ?
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[20:52:33] <artaxerxes> I think I made a booboo.... It is not FreeDos but dosemu....
[20:52:38] * artaxerxes ashamed of himself
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[21:20:55] <Colourless> hi
[21:21:35] <Colourless> goodbye :=_
[21:21:37] <Colourless> :-) even
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[21:31:07] <Fingolfin> hi wjp
[21:31:10] <Fingolfin> damn netsplits
[21:31:14] * Fingolfin is back =)
[21:38:23] <artaxerxes> hi
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[22:06:24] <wjp> hey Max
[22:06:42] <Fingolfin> hiya again
[22:06:52] * Fingolfin just experienced his very first kernel crash on OS X
[22:06:57] <Fingolfin> albeit caused by his own stupidity
[22:07:19] * wjp 's only kernel crash was caused by running an athlon kernel on a pentium :-)
[22:07:26] <wjp> (silly me :-) )
[22:07:44] <wjp> so, what did you do?
[22:07:49] <Fingolfin> let's say... it has some negative impact if you forcefully remove a HW driver for a device that you are using right now (even though it was just a typo, I mean, one could think, people would double read, no)?
[22:08:01] <Fingolfin> *cough*
[22:08:04] <Fingolfin> people being me in this case =)
[22:08:13] <wjp> "forcefully remove"? :-)
[22:08:50] <Fingolfin> ah, I installed a beta mouse driver from Macally, the vendor of my mouse. The thing is, I don't actually use any of the added functionality, so I wanted to unload it
[22:09:20] <wjp> unload a mouse driver? hmm... does osx have any virtual consoles?
[22:09:26] <Fingolfin> but instead of flagging it for removal after reboot, I removed it, and my system didn't like this in the least, sigh
[22:09:53] <Fingolfin> the thing is, the UI was gone... it said, though, that it was waiting for a serial connection =)
[22:10:00] <Fingolfin> guess the whole USB stack crashed down alongside
[22:10:07] <wjp> ouch
[22:10:07] <Fingolfin> I have no serial port anyway, though =)
[22:10:19] <wjp> isn't the 'S' in USB serial?
[22:10:49] <wjp> (ok, slightly far-fetched... I doubt it meant that)
[22:11:21] <Fingolfin> Universal Serial Bus, indeed =)
[22:11:27] <Fingolfin> he, it didn't
[22:11:57] <Fingolfin> I could get e.g. a PCI card with serial (as in RS-232 :) etc. on it, but why would I want to ?
[22:12:34] <wjp> not a clue
[22:16:36] <wjp> hmm, on the forum they ask if pentagram supports the jumping patch? :-)
[22:16:39] <wjp> easy to do... I guess ;-)
[22:17:12] <wjp> funny thing is, we could actually implement it in the current state... (jumping to mouse cursor instead of fixed distance in a fixed direction)
[22:19:36] <Fingolfin> with animation? :)
[22:19:42] <wjp> *cough* *cough*
[22:19:44] <wjp> sure :-)
[22:20:00] <wjp> well... actually.. we'd just have to figure out the offset in anim.dat...
[22:20:07] <Fingolfin> who did jumping work again? did one have to double click? I forgot :(
[22:20:10] <Fingolfin> he
[22:20:12] <wjp> (anim.dat contains the frame sequences used for animations)
[22:20:20] <wjp> double-right-click, IIRC
[22:20:33] <Fingolfin> ah, so instead of hardcoding them we could read them of there? cool
[22:20:51] <wjp> yeah, each NPC has a section in it
[22:21:20] <wjp> we still have to figure out what sequences correspond to which actions, but that shouldn't be too hard
[22:21:32] * Fingolfin finally has a working CVS verison of gcc 3.1 (from the Apple GCC CVS that is)
[22:21:37] <Fingolfin> sure
[22:21:48] <Fingolfin> we now the frames after all, and can back guess from that
[22:21:56] <wjp> hmm, I heard somewhere they postponed PCH. Is that true?
[22:22:02] <wjp> indeed
[22:22:29] <wjp> I might implement an animation feature in shpdisp... would have a high coolness factor :-)
[22:23:29] <Fingolfin> PCH ? pre compiled headers?
[22:23:34] * wjp nods
[22:23:50] <Fingolfin> apple has its own implementation of that, and has so for quite some time
[22:24:01] <wjp> in gcc?
[22:24:02] <Fingolfin> I am not sure if that is one of the thigns they are trying to get merged into FSF gcc
[22:24:05] <Fingolfin> yeah
[22:24:08] <Fingolfin> i.e. I have it :)
[22:24:12] <wjp> nice :-)
[22:24:39] <Fingolfin> I believe they want to get as much as possible back into FSF, since it ease maintaince for them a lot (the weekly CVS merges are less likely to break this way :)
[22:24:49] <wjp> *grin*
[22:25:04] <Fingolfin> the thing is, they have to make it very clean for the FSF to accept those, which is a problem with engineering forces, but overall, they are doing fine
[22:25:22] <Fingolfin> this includes Objective C++, btw... with some look, 3.1 or a following version will support that on all platforms
[22:25:42] <wjp> Objective C++?
[22:25:50] <wjp> Objective C with extras?
[22:25:57] <Fingolfin> yeah. ObjC and C++ are orthogonal mostly, you know
[22:26:06] <wjp> no, I don't, actually :/
[22:26:07] <Fingolfin> no - C++ and ObjC in one file
[22:26:10] <Fingolfin> very useful to bridge code
[22:26:13] <Fingolfin> he
[22:26:14] * wjp hasn't had any experience with ObjC
[22:26:19] <Fingolfin> ok
[22:26:27] <wjp> large parts of OSX were ObjC, right?
[22:26:49] * wjp could be confused here, though
[22:26:55] <Fingolfin> yeah, the whole Cocoa API is ObjC - which allows for very rapid GUI development, since its a true dyanmic linked language
[22:27:32] <Fingolfin> it is a bit like a mix between C and Smalltalk =)
[22:27:51] <Fingolfin> anyway, ObjC++ means that I can develop my GUI in ObjC, but the backend code in C++ easily
[22:27:55] <wjp> ok, Smalltalk I've seen a bit more of, although only in textbooks
[22:28:12] <Fingolfin> one can do that anyway, of course, but w/o ObjC++, you need to bridge C++ and ObjC using a C files "in the middle"
[22:28:12] * wjp nods. sounds good
[22:28:17] <wjp> best of both world :-)
[22:28:21] <wjp> s/ld/lds/
[22:28:24] <Fingolfin> exactly!
[22:28:46] <Fingolfin> the hacked 2.95.2 version Apple uses curretnly has it, but you wouldn't want to look at its sources <shudder>
[22:29:01] * wjp is confused at the "direction picture" in display.cc
[22:29:29] <wjp> N != up on screen, in U8
[22:29:39] <Fingolfin> to quote README.Apple: "In practice, there are a number of missing options and functionality. We're not even sure what all of them are, because the existing compiler has many undocumented changes inherited from 10 years of NeXT and Apple hacking, and nobody knows what some of them are for. "
[22:29:45] <Fingolfin> hu
[22:29:55] <wjp> lol
[22:29:55] <Fingolfin> N = upper right ?
[22:29:58] * wjp nods
[22:30:07] <wjp> that's the _official_ statement? :-)
[22:31:38] <Fingolfin> well, that's from Apple's readme in their gcc 3.1 CVS, talking about their hacked up 2.95.2
[22:31:51] <Fingolfin> so it's so-to-say "official"
[22:31:56] <Fingolfin> why should they lie? :)
[22:32:04] <wjp> I'm starting to understand why they're having trouble getting some changes into the main gcc tree :-)
[22:32:07] <Fingolfin> it goes on "So our new policy is not to add anything
[22:32:07] <Fingolfin> unless we can explain why, which means that your code may be the
[22:32:08] <Fingolfin> evidence for the value of some feature.
[22:32:08] <Fingolfin> "
[22:32:16] <Fingolfin> no no
[22:32:21] <Fingolfin> they are actually redoing everything from scratch
[22:32:27] <Fingolfin> and FSF already took a lot into their CVS
[22:32:28] <wjp> ah, ok
[22:32:31] <matto> obviously someone forgot to add comments explaining why they did what they did.. I hate that!
[22:32:50] <Fingolfin> but some changes they won't, e.g. MacOS needs a special way to declare pascal like strings: "\pThis is a pascal string"
[22:32:57] * matto seethes with anger at Fingolfin's quote
[22:33:02] <Fingolfin> they also added altivec support, which FSF doesn't like
[22:33:13] <wjp> altivec?
[22:33:21] <wjp> some architecture?
[22:33:28] <Fingolfin> matto: well, yeah, I think Stan is a bit annoyed by it, too (Stan Shebs, head gcc 3.1 developer at Apple)
[22:33:41] <matto> have you talked to him before?
[22:33:45] <Fingolfin> AltiVec is, so to say, the PowerPC version of MMX/SSE
[22:33:58] <Fingolfin> matto: I am on the apple gcc3 mailing list, sure
[22:34:01] <wjp> ah, ok
[22:34:06] <matto> I assumed as much :)
[22:34:28] <matto> ?
[22:34:30] <matto> no more x-chat?
[22:34:42] <matto> and after all that work you did to port it :)
[22:34:52] <wjp> "Snak"? weird name
[22:35:05] <wjp> scandinavian word, maybe?
[22:35:29] <matto> maybe he was so hungry that he couldn't think straight and spelled it "snak" before rushing off to eat
[22:35:31] <Fingolfin> no idea :)
[22:35:37] <Fingolfin> I am also sometimes runnign xchat 1.8.7
[22:35:41] <Fingolfin> he
[22:36:09] <wjp> www.fertnel.com seems to like the word...
[22:36:17] <Fingolfin> http://www.snak.com/
[22:36:36] <wjp> yeah, that was the first hit on google, but it sounded boring :-)
[22:36:56] <Fingolfin> snak has the advantage that I can use it w/o X11, and that it is better integrated into the system
[22:37:19] <Fingolfin> wjp: he
[22:37:35] <Fingolfin> damn, no kinch1 left (author of Snak), i wanted to ask him if he would sue fertnel =)
[22:39:20] <wjp> :-)
[22:48:48] <artaxerxes> ciao
[22:48:51] <wjp> bye
[22:48:54] <-- artaxerxes has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[22:55:37] <Fingolfin> hm, code size sure is increased :/
[22:55:42] <wjp> ?
[22:55:50] <Fingolfin> with my gcc 3.1
[22:56:05] <wjp> gcc's output, you mean?
[22:56:13] <Fingolfin> yeah
[23:01:06] <wjp> brb
[23:19:31] <wjp> b
[23:19:57] <Fingolfin> wb