#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Jan 2011 (GMT)

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[00:27:02] <Getty> help..... i just installed exult new but used my old u7 directory
[00:27:09] <Getty> in there is a bunch of .sav but i cant load them
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[00:41:11] <eviltar> you mean you cant load your original saves from ultima7?
[00:41:36] <Getty> no my exult saves
[00:41:57] <Getty> exult00bg.sav ........ exult55bg.sav
[00:42:00] <Getty> those are them, or?
[00:42:05] <eviltar> they dont show up in exult?
[00:42:11] <Getty> nope
[00:42:29] <eviltar> start a new game and save it, and see where that went
[00:42:33] <Getty> but definitly could be a version difference of exult, dont know from which time i made them
[00:42:47] <Getty> actually i cant see it ;) that is my other problem
[00:43:01] <eviltar> are you on windows 7?
[00:43:04] <Getty> yes
[00:43:06] <Getty> let me guess...
[00:43:08] <eviltar> it messed me up too
[00:43:24] <eviltar> let me tell you what folder i found that stuff in
[00:43:29] <Getty> somewhere roaming?
[00:43:33] <eviltar> i couldnt find the ini it was using
[00:43:45] <Getty> got it
[00:44:48] <eviltar> drive:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Exult
[00:48:38] <Getty> yeah already found it :)
[00:48:39] <Getty> thanks anyway
[00:48:44] <Getty> the hint was important
[01:12:59] <Getty> do i get ultima 7 support here, too? ;) lol
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[03:27:02] <eviltar> heh, so you're all sorted out then? good :)
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[12:23:45] <Dominus> getty, we have it in the FAQ http://exult.sourceforge.net/faq.php#savegames_gone
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[12:36:28] <Malignant_Manor> Dominus: , before you update the docs, what other options should be in the menu?
[12:37:09] <Dominus> let me see..., good call on the paperdolls option, btw
[12:37:22] <Malignant_Manor> Also, I may look into having a different configuration file system.
[12:38:10] * wjp suggests pentagram's
[12:38:18] <Dominus> I suggest that too
[12:38:33] <Malignant_Manor> Does Pentagram actually write to the file?
[12:38:47] <Malignant_Manor> I didn't think any options saved.
[12:38:57] <wjp> it does
[12:38:59] <wjp> and they do
[12:39:01] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: as for the options, the mouse scroll one in misc should probably be placed with the other mouse options
[12:39:54] <Malignant_Manor> All the gameplay options are probably jumbled around without much though.
[12:39:58] <Dominus> and either cheats, speed or smooth scrolling into misc
[12:41:19] <Malignant_Manor> Exult already has a plain text file read and write but it kills comments on write.
[12:41:38] <wjp> it does?
[12:41:46] <wjp> ah, for plain text
[12:41:57] <Malignant_Manor> The paperdoll info and shape data
[12:42:12] <Malignant_Manor> It is somewhat like an ini.
[12:42:41] <Malignant_Manor> I'm just wondering if it is practical to use or not.
[12:43:18] <wjp> if switching to a completely new format, I'd far prefer pentagram's over exult's current text format
[12:43:58] <Malignant_Manor> I'm just looking at options and for suggestions of where to look.
[12:44:20] <wjp> scummvm also has an ini-based system
[12:44:22] <Malignant_Manor> Hopefully, I can actually integrate them.
[12:44:54] <Malignant_Manor> I'm also thinking about allowing adding new games in the menu.
[12:44:54] <wjp> FWIW, pentagram also uses the .ini system for storing some de-hardcoded tables
[12:45:48] <Malignant_Manor> That probably would not be too hard considering we already have text writing in the notepad and Avatar name.
[12:46:15] <wjp> convenient directory selection is probably the hardest part there
[12:46:21] <Dominus> we do support comments in pentagram.ini, right?
[12:46:21] <Malignant_Manor> I don't know about a proper file explorer
[12:46:36] <wjp> Dominus: yes, but I have no idea how clever it is
[12:47:23] <Dominus> a clever one like Dosbox' would be really helpful, so I can clutter the ini with useless information from the documentation....
[12:47:36] <wjp> Dominus: at a quick glance, it just attaches all comments to the next key=value following it
[12:47:51] <wjp> (or the next section start)
[12:48:56] <Malignant_Manor> I probably won't look into the explorer since that is really platform dependent and I don't want to add another dependency to Exult.
[12:49:37] <wjp> scummvm has one, but it would involve pulling in a _lot_ of scummvm
[12:49:40] <Dominus> yes, an explorer could be ripped from Scummvm
[12:49:44] <Dominus> :)
[12:49:50] <Dominus> wjp beat me to it
[12:49:50] <Malignant_Manor> *wishes he actually knew how to code*
[12:50:11] <Dominus> ah, you're doing fine, you know much more than me
[12:51:05] <Dominus> but an explorer is a real "would be nice to have but not really needed yet" thing
[12:51:14] <Malignant_Manor> I'm looking into another color scheme for menu gumps that are visible at all the persistent palettes.
[12:51:51] <Malignant_Manor> I have a decent looking blue one.
[12:51:58] <Dominus> I'm not sure I like a different color scheme for the BG and SI games
[12:52:03] <Malignant_Manor> But I may try brown again
[12:52:06] <Dominus> while using the original gump style
[12:52:36] <Malignant_Manor> The combat stats are visible at night palette.
[12:52:39] <Dominus> a game independant menu style with proper tabs, explorer and such would be better in the long term
[12:53:08] <Dominus> mostly just ripping ScummVM's stuff off :)
[12:53:19] <Malignant_Manor> My first brown one, if I remember correctly, was not that good.
[12:53:22] <wjp> this would be really easy in pentagram... separate palettes for individual gumps :-)
[12:53:58] <Malignant_Manor> Right now, you are extremely limited in color schemes.
[12:54:15] <Malignant_Manor> Most choices that work are horrible looking.
[12:54:56] <Malignant_Manor> It would be nice to have user settable values.
[12:55:24] <Malignant_Manor> Use virtual gumps instead. We already do that for text buttons.
[12:56:15] <Malignant_Manor> wjp, rewrite Exult now.
[12:56:33] <Malignant_Manor> We need a better core engine.
[12:57:00] <Dominus> yes, please, if you start now you could be done when you leave work for home...
[12:58:02] <Malignant_Manor> Also allow several backends like Allegro, SDL 1.2, SDL 1.3, SFML ...
[12:58:17] <wjp> porting more of pentagram to exult has been on my to-do-when-I-have-a-free-year list for years now :-)
[12:58:37] <Malignant_Manor> Use a better build system like CMake
[12:59:18] <Malignant_Manor> Just leave out the Avatar pathfinding dying part of Pentagram.
[12:59:50] <wjp> hm?
[12:59:55] <Dominus> wishes... :)
[13:00:13] <wjp> but anything gameplay related from pentagram wouldn't be usable at all
[13:00:32] <Malignant_Manor> It could with heavy modification.
[13:00:39] <wjp> nah
[13:00:48] <wjp> it's too completely different
[13:00:56] <Dominus> and while you'e at it, backport marzo's changes to how files are handled (config, default paths for savegames...) to Pentagram from Exult :)
[13:01:24] <wjp> the linux paths in pentagram are just fine :-)
[13:01:50] <Malignant_Manor> i still need to find a good way to get soundfx packs editable in menus.
[13:02:19] <Dominus> wjp: yes, on osx it's fine, too. The Windows part is not good :)
[13:02:32] <Malignant_Manor> Right now, it selects the BG ones, and I'm not sure where it saves to.
[13:03:22] <Dominus> malignant, you mean in the exult menu, before a game is chosen?
[13:03:27] <Malignant_Manor> Yeah
[13:03:42] <Dominus> this should probably turned off in the exult menu
[13:03:46] <Malignant_Manor> I don't want to disable it though.
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[13:04:20] <Malignant_Manor> but the fact that Exult can autodetect sfx may mean it really isn't needed there.
[13:04:40] <Dominus> yes, it really isn't
[13:05:05] <Malignant_Manor> It would only be needed if the user manually turned them off.
[13:05:38] <Dominus> don't make it too complicated. I see that it would be nice to configure them on the exult menu, but probably it's best to leave that to the in-game menu
[13:10:17] <wjp> yeah
[13:11:18] <wjp> (it autodetects sfx packs now? nice)
[13:11:32] <Dominus> he he
[13:11:48] <Malignant_Manor> It has a bad side effect of killing the absolute path though.
[13:12:09] <Dominus> yes, when they are in the data folders at least the sb and mt32 pack are found and selectable
[13:12:16] <Malignant_Manor> So having multiple folders of Exult screws up when saving the audio tab.
[13:12:39] <Malignant_Manor> I think it also might look in the Exult directory.
[13:14:50] <Dominus> is it important when it destroys the absolute path? the path is given by the data folder, right?
[13:15:16] <Malignant_Manor> it just saves the sfx pack name.
[13:15:35] <Dominus> yes, but only when it finds it in the data path, right?
[13:15:37] <Malignant_Manor> That is mostly a problem for developers
[13:15:41] <Malignant_Manor> No
[13:15:56] <Malignant_Manor> It always does this.
[13:17:38] <wjp> why?
[13:17:55] <wjp> there should be no need to touch the value entered there, right?
[13:18:28] <wjp> if only a filename/pack-name -> search for it, if a full path -> use that. And when setting default values, just store the filename/pack-name
[13:18:45] <Malignant_Manor> Maybe, I can change it so it doesn't mess with the path if it is custom.
[13:18:55] <Malignant_Manor> and saving to custom.
[13:19:37] <Malignant_Manor> I think absolute paths are choice custom, but I need to check.
[13:22:04] <Dominus> while we are at it *maybe* we can add a another folder to data, data/sfx and let it lok there also for sfx files, since sustom packs are lost and need to reentered manually when switching packs
[13:23:35] <Malignant_Manor> That' probably too complicated for me. The custom name could be the flx name minus .flx
[13:25:02] <Dominus> what I mean is a custom pack works fien and is shown in the audio gump, but only when entered manually in the cfg and when you switch around packs the manual entry is lost in the gump and you need to reenter the sfx pack
[13:25:28] <Dominus> but, yes if too complicated... no need to change it for now.. not like there are many custom packs
[13:26:22] <Malignant_Manor> Maybe after the cfg gets changed to something more easily editable and commented.
[13:26:29] <Malignant_Manor> Right now I will just have a fix on not changing the sfx pack name if it is custom.
[13:26:49] <Malignant_Manor> Plus excluding it when in the Exult menu.
[13:27:15] <Dominus> sounds good, so when custom patch is NOT the data path, don't strip the path?
[13:27:38] <Malignant_Manor> when there is a custom path at all
[13:28:12] <Malignant_Manor> It could be in the data folder of an older Exult stable and someone is trying a snapshot.
[13:29:16] <Dominus> ok, NOW I get the problem
[13:29:18] <Dominus> right
[13:29:38] <Malignant_Manor> Color scheme patch https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3107154&group_id=2335&atid=352335
[13:29:55] <Malignant_Manor> I'd ignore night_menu.zip
[13:30:41] <Malignant_Manor> I'll probably look into a better brown choice though.
[13:30:59] <Malignant_Manor> At least, until we have a proper release.
[13:31:22] <Malignant_Manor> Then maybe new menu system. (big maybe with my limited skills)
[13:31:37] <Dominus> :)
[13:32:43] <Malignant_Manor> too much to do in Exult, not enough time and skill
[13:33:37] <Malignant_Manor> wjp: , do you have time to look into a major problem with objects disappearing?
[13:33:54] <wjp> not right now
[13:34:23] <Malignant_Manor> I think it happened when we changed shape pointer handling
[13:34:51] <Malignant_Manor> https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=127417248.663209.1292265459568.%40core-dbc002c.r1000.mail.aol.com&forum_name=exult-general
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[13:36:56] <Malignant_Manor> Just for later reference, https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=48909C19.7020400%40model.com&forum_name=exult-general
[13:37:04] <Malignant_Manor> https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=62151.XQYODQtBEwU%3D.1216976275.squirrel%40webmailer.hosteurope.de&forum_name=exult-general
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[13:53:13] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: the blue color gump looks funny :)
[13:53:38] <Dominus> but too blue bright when a full window gump like the save gump is displayed
[13:54:22] <Dominus> the brownish one is nicely tuned, not too bright not too dark, I guess
[13:54:45] <Malignant_Manor> If I remember, it looked kind of nasty.
[13:54:53] <Malignant_Manor> I'll have to look again.
[13:55:10] <Malignant_Manor> Darn menu is Game type blackgate.
[13:56:23] <Dominus> with brownish I meant the default one
[13:56:43] <Malignant_Manor> The default one is too dark at night palette.
[13:57:01] <Malignant_Manor> You can't read anything.
[13:57:51] <Malignant_Manor> Well, except for the saved game names
[13:58:14] <Getty> playing ultima 7 is always cool... just need to say it
[13:58:49] <Malignant_Manor> The problem is, most colors are too dark when in night palette so you don't have a lot of choices.
[14:00:33] <Malignant_Manor> It wouldn't be a problem if we weren't using bitmap fonts.
[14:00:42] <Malignant_Manor> We could just change the font color.
[14:01:10] <Malignant_Manor> I don't want to include a color modified font from Ultima into Exult.
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[14:16:38] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: http://exult.sourceforge.net/ - The open source engine for Ultima 7
[14:16:38] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Fri Sep 12 00:40:42 2008
[14:16:52] <wjp> more specific please :-)
[14:16:58] <Getty> Official - v1.4.9 rc1
[14:17:14] <Malignant_Manor> Try the SVN snapshot from the download page.
[14:17:41] <Getty> i cant sadly reproduce it, but it happens so often that i give report later
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[14:24:18] <Getty> ok setup gets killed :-/
[14:24:51] <Malignant_Manor> what does that mean?
[14:25:47] <Getty> the setup of the variables was killed i had to setup the stuff new, not important but i was happy to found a good display setup
[14:26:37] <Malignant_Manor> There are new settings for windows.
[14:26:56] <Malignant_Manor> The fullscreen setting should be intact
[14:28:16] <Getty> the new version makes big trouble with my synergy setup
[14:28:22] <Getty> the old one didnt had a problem with that
[14:30:32] <Dominus> how was it killed (you exited Exult and then the settings were gone, for example)?
[14:30:52] <Dominus> and what do you mean by synergy setup
[14:31:13] <Getty> i use synergy a software to link monitors
[14:31:24] <Getty> and killed as in: when i installed the new version and started up the setup was gone
[14:31:31] <Getty> (but the savegames are, so its using the right dir)
[14:32:25] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: couldn't we use a different approach? save the palette when opening menu, setting bright palette and when exiting menu, reset to the saved palette
[14:33:11] <Malignant_Manor> What do you mean by synergy setup?
[14:33:17] <Getty> hey game question, how can i reveal invisible dragons?
[14:33:52] <Getty> Malignant_Manor: [15:31:04] <Getty> i use synergy a software to link monitors
[14:34:00] <Dominus> getty, are different things being kept in the cfg? We use a new cfg location, so there might have been something lost and we use a new way to display alltogether
[14:34:16] <Getty> some are still there, yes
[14:34:20] <Getty> or lets say
[14:34:22] <Getty> it seems so
[14:34:28] <Getty> could be wrong, i didnt saved it in my brain full ;)
[14:34:39] <Getty> but someone could tell me how i reveal invisible dragons ;)
[14:34:54] <Dominus> trouble with synergy are likely caused by SDL. or you could describe the problems more
[14:35:02] <Malignant_Manor> The problem with adjusting brightness for the menu is that the game is shown too.
[14:35:06] <Dominus> vas an ex?
[14:35:13] <Getty> Dominus: which is this?
[14:35:25] <Getty> Dominus: which spell? i'm rusty cant remember the spells by spell lol ;)
[14:35:59] <Malignant_Manor> reveal
[14:36:01] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: I know, but frankly I don't care much about spoiling stuff too much.
[14:36:33] <Getty> damn i dont have it
[14:36:35] <Malignant_Manor> *longs for pentagram's separate palette for gumps"
[14:36:36] <Dominus> it seems to me we have to die some way, either we have hardly visible menu or we spoil the game just a little bit
[14:36:56] <wjp> what did the original do?
[14:37:05] <Malignant_Manor> Dark
[14:37:21] <Malignant_Manor> Exult is not the original game though
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[14:39:12] <Dominus> or use a different gump when palette is night time :)
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[14:39:40] <Dominus|away> I'm gone for a little bit
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[14:41:02] <Malignant_Manor> Exult doesn't currently have a way to detect the palette number (as far as I know).
[14:41:12] <Malignant_Manor> It also adds a lot of extra space.
[14:41:24] <Malignant_Manor> The text buttons would also need recolored.
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[15:52:46] <Getty> i cant remember, cant i sell weapons and shit somewhere?
[15:53:11] <Malignant_Manor> Not in BG. You can in SI.
[15:53:19] <Getty> mh bad
[15:53:25] <Getty> why i carry the shit on my carpet storage
[15:53:36] <Getty> btw, is it still the best tactic to head on "all magic axe equipped"?
[15:54:21] <Getty> oh wait, i dont even know if i can buy them
[15:54:23] <Getty> damn, too much U5
[15:55:04] <Malignant_Manor> They aren't buy-able in BG. I'm not sure about SI.
[15:56:14] <Getty> damn
[15:56:58] <Getty> btw, when i sleep does the hit points heal from my team member? i feel like it doesnt, but i also feel rusy
[15:57:01] <Getty> rusty ;)
[15:57:38] <Malignant_Manor> It will heal all npcs that aren't poisoned, starving, freezing, etc
[16:00:28] <Getty> thx
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[16:24:03] <Getty> is there some speciality in exult to display the stats of all players beside the number-keys?
[16:24:57] <Malignant_Manor> z for individual stat gumps
[16:25:07] <Dominus|away> or face stats in the gameplay options
[16:25:14] <Dominus|away> for an aproximate view
[16:25:19] * Dominus|away is still gone
[16:25:24] <eviltar> were any one you guys workign with exult before sdl_mixer was removed?
[16:25:49] <Dominus|away> yes, all of us
[16:25:55] <Dominus|away> though malignant not official
[16:26:04] <Dominus|away> dmn, I'm gone :)
[16:26:25] <eviltar> what's your estimation on how much work it would be to merge against an old ver to put it back in, if i were to do that?
[16:27:07] <eviltar> *i know, its workign great, on my pc 1.4.9 is better than ever
[16:27:27] <eviltar> but 'why' aside..
[16:27:34] <Malignant_Manor> I don't know how many changes there were.
[16:27:49] <Malignant_Manor> There was a separate branch for awhile.
[16:28:07] <Malignant_Manor> no_sdl_mixer or something
[16:28:11] <eviltar> yep
[16:28:16] <eviltar> thats what i started with
[16:28:22] <eviltar> 1.405 nomixer
[16:29:31] <eviltar> i'll have to scan throught the changelogs and see what version was the last one that still was dependant on it
[16:31:18] <Malignant_Manor> That was quite awhile ago. Most of the new code hasn't been audio though.
[16:34:38] <eviltar> hopefully at least around 1.2
[16:35:35] <Malignant_Manor> It wasn't that far back.
[16:35:43] <Malignant_Manor> 1.4 svn most likely
[16:35:52] <eviltar> cool thanks
[16:36:11] <eviltar> gives me a better idea where to start looking
[16:53:50] <Getty> lol my dude had -3 hits but was still standing
[16:53:53] <Getty> dupre for the win!
[16:55:55] <Getty> crashed again
[16:55:58] <Getty> the same style
[16:56:09] <Getty> it hangs, windows says "no response" (very fast) music still playing
[16:56:41] <Getty> it happens mostly in fights, but i had 1-2 cases where it happened out of the sudden (but it was always in town or dungeon even tho mostly there hehe)
[17:20:14] <Dominus|away> getty, sounds like a bad bug I encountered before and am scheduled to debug with wjp some time :)
[17:20:28] <Dominus|away> eviltar, we do have a changelog :)
[17:21:46] <Dominus|away> just search there for merge...
[17:21:59] <eviltar> thank you :)
[17:22:21] <Dominus|away> and I know, not to ask why.. but why the painful remerging?
[17:22:34] <eviltar> b'c when i play a sfx
[17:22:45] <eviltar> i end up crashing in kernel
[17:22:56] <eviltar> i dont have the symbols for
[17:23:02] <Dominus|away> and it works with SDL_Mixer?
[17:23:06] <eviltar> yep
[17:23:08] <Getty> oh yes, should probably say that i use the Roland soundset
[17:23:17] <Getty> COULD be if its involved with sounds no idea
[17:23:39] <Dominus|away> getty if it is the bug I encountered, music does not play a role :)
[17:23:41] <eviltar> i even went so far as to change teh wav's to big endian and repack them in an flx and try that
[17:24:48] <Dominus|away> hmm, maybe if you really care you could try figuring out the difference why it crashes without SDL_Mixer... could be a problem down the road for trunk, too
[17:25:00] <eviltar> but I have super mario wars up and running 100%, with sdl_mixer and sdl
[17:25:08] <eviltar> once i get sounds working in a build
[17:25:17] <eviltar> i'll share any thing i find
[17:25:31] <eviltar> i've been keeping my sources public
[17:26:57] <Dominus|away> SDL_Mixer came *after* Exult was able to play sfx from the packs, so the *why* would really be important
[17:27:28] <eviltar> another peice of that puzzle
[17:27:40] <eviltar> would be why does the speech work fine
[17:27:49] <eviltar> but the sfx kill it?
[17:27:58] <eviltar> ***in my build
[17:28:03] <Malignant_Manor> speech is .voc (I think)
[17:32:11] <Getty> Dominus: no, the roland soundset, i guess this is not the music, or?
[17:32:22] <Getty> Dominus: lets say it feels like its just the sounds, the music feels the same like in the past
[17:32:31] <Getty> and if it crashs there is no sound anymore ;)
[17:32:41] <Getty> just music!
[17:32:41] <Getty> ;)
[17:38:42] <eviltar> well as far as my build goes
[17:39:33] <eviltar> i think im going to merge the latest release with 1.4 with mixer, and add the changes i needed to get it up and running and go from there
[17:39:41] <eviltar> but that sounds like work :P
[17:49:41] <-- Malignant_Manor has left IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
[18:05:30] <eviltar> dominus: it could very well be a problem in my build only specific to my platform
[18:05:46] <eviltar> but adding more endian safety never hurts
[18:06:56] <eviltar> if only I could just define MAC, hit go, and be done :P
[18:09:14] <eviltar> well, not could very well, it IS a problem related to the backwardness of this platform i'm building for
[18:09:37] <eviltar> but maybe down the road there might be other devices liek this
[18:09:58] <Dominus|away> you could try and check what got changed when SDL_Mixer got brought in as a dependency (Simon Quinn merged the ogg trunk in), when SDL_Mixer got cut out...
[18:10:22] <Dominus|away> there must be something to see why it misbehaves
[18:10:44] <eviltar> well im goign to start over from a fresh grab off the svn
[18:10:53] <Dominus|away> @getty, I meant sfx and music are not relevant to this crashing bug *probably*
[18:11:19] <Dominus|away> the test case for this kind of crash I have crashes reliably with or without music/sfx enabled
[18:12:56] <Getty> wasnt there a trick how to get so strong to move "anything"?
[18:13:02] <Getty> a corpse moved "under a carpet"
[18:13:04] <Getty> damn it ;)
[18:13:09] <Dominus|away> hackmover cheat
[18:13:21] <Getty> how todo so?
[18:13:47] <Dominus|away> please read the fine manual
[18:19:46] <eviltar> what was that , the old way, with Ultima7 -abcd (alt+255)e ?
[18:21:40] <eviltar> getty, the build I'm working on isnt much like the pc build so dont let what i'm saying about my build make you think there are problems with exult
[18:26:59] <Getty> i know exult since many many years.... do i have any choice overall? ;)
[18:28:36] <eviltar> heh
[18:28:48] <eviltar> i've loved it for quite a long time as well
[18:29:13] <eviltar> 'F2' opens your cheat menu
[18:41:38] <Getty> any suggestion for how to gain experience points?
[18:41:53] <Getty> or is slaying dragons already good way?
[18:42:57] <eviltar> i like the big cyclops
[18:43:02] <Getty> where?
[18:43:12] <Getty> you mean in this little dungeon?
[18:43:19] <Getty> who let the world vibrate all the time?
[18:43:27] <eviltar> maybe
[18:43:30] <Getty> are they better than dragons?
[18:43:33] <Getty> dragons give lots of money
[18:43:34] <Getty> 8-)
[18:43:53] <eviltar> yeah but theyre hard to kill
[18:44:03] <Getty> not really.... so far ;)
[18:44:14] <Getty> my crew is already level 6 (and one level 7)
[18:44:21] <Getty> they are slaughtered!
[18:44:23] <eviltar> cyclops give gold nuggets, adn they arent far from the exchange in brittian
[18:44:47] <Getty> yeah but you get 2 nuggets from a cyclops max, which means 20 gold
[18:45:01] <Getty> for a dragon i get 0-8 gems, 30 gold each
[18:45:05] <Getty> HUGE difference 8-)
[18:45:07] <eviltar> so kill a bunch of them
[18:45:17] <Getty> i do already, thought someone got a better hint
[18:45:17] <eviltar> and your party wont get slaughtered
[18:45:19] <Getty> its grwoing slowly
[18:45:24] <Getty> or lets say i cant even see it really
[18:45:39] <eviltar> you have cheats on?
[18:45:52] <Getty> not anymore
[18:46:20] <Getty> used it for the hackmover now to get the magic axe which was fallen "under the carpet"
[18:48:22] <eviltar> idk just follow along with the story, youll get plenty of experience and gold :P
[20:38:41] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[20:39:37] <Dominus> wjp: like I said earlier, I'd really like to taggle the crash in chunks when in combat. So, whenever you have time... :)
[20:42:24] <Dominus> log of http://log.usecode.org/exultlog.php?log=14Dec2010
[20:58:20] <Getty> i guess you guys can explain me the XP concept more detailed, i never thought much about it, but i wanted to make some calculation and a dragon makes 59,89andsoon XP ;) which i dont believe
[21:04:12] <Getty> http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Juggernaut_Hammer
[21:04:24] <Getty> the guy who made the screenshot thought he is funny i guess ;)
[21:11:38] <eviltar> http://dylan.fwdmpg.com/sweeeet.jpg
[21:11:55] <eviltar> oops
[21:12:00] <eviltar> try this one http://dylan.fwdmpg.com/sweeeeeet.jpg
[21:18:35] <Getty> do i miss the joke?
[21:23:48] <eviltar> just one of my favorite things in U7
[21:24:00] <Getty> ok thats a reason ;)
[21:24:03] <eviltar> theres lots of easter eggs
[21:24:12] <Getty> on my one, if you didnt notice, there are no pants ;)
[21:24:54] <eviltar> a hidden chest right outside trinsic, so get good armor right off the bat
[21:25:03] <Getty> yeah i know that
[21:25:09] <Getty> you also know the secret shortcut? ;)
[21:25:20] <eviltar> to ?
[21:25:29] <Getty> the end of the game, directly from the start without leaving trinsic
[21:25:36] <eviltar> lol, no
[21:25:41] <eviltar> i didnt know that one
[21:26:03] <Getty> i must remember exactly but you must stack some cases so that you get a letter to get on the roof
[21:26:15] <Getty> yeah it was the roof of the damaged locksmith house
[21:26:21] <Getty> then you get into the chimney
[21:26:38] <Getty> and you are in a secret room where you get all kind of shit to get beamed directly to the last room
[21:26:55] <eviltar> wow, i didnt know that one
[21:27:14] <Getty> i definitly know i did it with exult once, so it should work with it
[21:30:38] <Dominus> that is the most known easter egg of U7, AFAIK :)
[21:31:06] <Getty> there are soooooooooooooooooooooo many
[21:31:09] <Getty> 8-)
[21:31:31] <Getty> i would even bet there are some which are not found so far, even tho i guess exult coder should know after some analyze ;)
[21:32:50] <Dominus> I don't think we found much more with Exult. In SI we found a stash of stuff right before the final room where you finish the game and that was not wildly known
[21:33:19] <Getty> just curious was there ever a plan for a complete new interface?
[21:33:46] <Getty> i mean not redo the gfx of the game, but all the technical handling (storages, points, probably a team roaster display, shortcut keys for spells)
[21:34:09] <Getty> so like Bards Tale style or U5 ;)
[21:34:47] <Dominus> a team roaster display? like the status faces?
[21:35:09] <Dominus> spells can be shortcut if you really like but you need to do that manually
[21:35:11] <Getty> yeah, so not only the "game area" some sidebar or headbox
[21:35:26] <Getty> oh really? cool, sounds interesting
[21:35:33] <Getty> but you know what i mean?
[21:35:43] <Getty> like an interface info where you see your money in the crew
[21:35:55] <Getty> or that you can make notices on the map for mark positions of left stuff
[21:35:59] <Getty> and so on and so on
[21:36:07] <Getty> just make playing ultima 7 fucking awesome ;)
[21:36:13] <Dominus> ah, no not really. since the original game window doesn't allow much
[21:36:21] <Getty> yeah but you could go around it
[21:36:25] <Getty> shouldnt be hard, or?
[21:36:33] <Getty> sidebar with info of the team for example
[21:37:38] <Dominus> could be done but, honestly, *I* don't need much more than the face stats to see how healty the party is and how much mana the avatar has
[21:38:01] <Getty> what you need with the face stats?
[21:38:09] <Getty> exactly?
[21:38:25] <Dominus> http://exult.sourceforge.net/images/screenshots/stats2.png
[21:38:36] <Getty> how i get it?
[21:38:44] <Getty> that would be good start for me :)
[21:39:00] <Dominus> told you before to read the manual :)
[21:39:15] <Dominus> or actualy told you before here to turn it on via game options
[21:39:37] <Getty> i got tooth pain, i'm not 100% working lol
[21:40:04] <Dominus> the option has been there forever, probably before Exult 1.2 :)
[21:40:05] <Getty> ah, after the "z", i didnt read more, sorry
[21:40:12] <Getty> hey probably i even had used it
[21:40:17] <Getty> i play exult every 3-4 years
[21:40:25] <Getty> mostly when i'm ill
[21:40:42] <Getty> gives me good feelings
[21:41:55] <Getty> oh btw.. got a new problem suddenly........
[21:41:58] <Getty> i see the mouse?!
[21:42:09] <Getty> yeah clear, now its gone again.... forget it
[21:43:29] <Getty> i check on the shortcut stuff now, sounds interesting
[21:43:50] <Getty> btw, a group moving feature would be awesome LOL ;)
[21:43:55] <Getty> "mark" ;)
[21:44:15] <Getty> or a "plunder" button for victim chests
[21:44:20] <Dominus> a group moving feature?
[21:44:31] <Getty> yeah mark several objects in a bag and move it over to another one
[21:44:31] <Getty> you know
[21:44:37] <Getty> from your real computer interface ;)
[21:44:40] <Getty> select
[21:44:42] <Getty> and stuff
[21:45:07] <Getty> (also an "order this storage" button ;) hehe)
[21:45:07] <Dominus> you can do this with Exult which has Exult Studio support
[21:45:24] <Getty> Exult Studio? did i missed something?
[21:45:41] <Getty> i should install this, eh?
[21:45:53] <Dominus> http://exult.sourceforge.net/studio.php
[21:47:01] <Getty> interesting
[21:47:15] <Getty> but then it really looks like this when i play?
[21:47:21] <Getty> or what you mean specific?
[21:48:22] <Dominus> if you really want to spend your playtime with sorting stuff, and mark more than one object you need Exult with Exult Studio support built in, meaning a snapshot
[21:48:39] <Getty> i use right now the exult svn snapshot
[21:49:03] <Getty> or do i need the Exult Studio Windows snapshot?
[21:49:39] <Dominus> you coud try without, enable cheats, enable exult studio mode and try if you can use the special keys
[21:50:01] <Getty> testing
[21:50:14] <Dominus> http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#studio_keys
[21:50:31] <Dominus> ctrl works as it does in windows
[21:50:36] <Getty> "enable exult studio mode"?
[21:50:57] <Dominus> read the fine manual
[21:51:00] <Getty> ah cheat menu
[21:51:04] <Getty> just guessed it myself
[21:51:20] <Dominus> cheat menu? oh well
[21:51:27] <Getty> then let me read manual ;)
[21:51:28] <Getty> :-P
[21:53:12] <Getty> you mean --edit?
[21:55:03] <Getty> oh dear, everything changes 8-)
[21:56:19] <Dominus> actually it's easier to enter studio mode than --edit. Read the keys section...
[21:59:37] <Getty> i cant find the term "studio mode" really, do you mean that what i have with --edit?
[22:01:06] <Dominus> It's map editor mode http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#studio_keys
[22:01:21] <Dominus> that's what you get with --edit
[22:01:25] <Getty> ah ok
[22:01:28] <Getty> yeah that was very very different
[22:01:30] <Getty> 8-)
[22:10:24] <Getty> oh shit, just deactivated paperdolls... oh my god..... i remember 8-)
[22:11:09] <Getty> yes paperdolls was the most common reason why i played SI, even tho the storyline/the game itself is so much more sucking (in the original time on the old PCs), these day with exult i never played SI... i guess i tested it once, but i hate SI somehow
[22:11:12] <Getty> its so "arcade"
[22:11:21] <Getty> like "hey, you made a good game, make another one, NOW!"
[22:13:51] <Getty> ok! i do a huge inventory reorganization now! putting it all on the street, all stuff on all storages! lol
[22:15:14] <Getty> oh what i can do with honey?!
[22:15:43] <Getty> ah and i got a "bug" in handling
[22:16:09] <Getty> when i right click on some gamearea while some storage is open, the avatar never stops running, till i close the storages and then rightclick again somewhere
[22:19:01] <eviltar> getty
[22:19:14] <eviltar> theres an option in the menu to make gumps pause the game
[22:19:42] <Getty> yeah but if i dont want it to pause, shouldnt the handling still be the same of the game area?
[22:19:50] <Getty> (sure thats an option, right)
[22:20:09] <eviltar> the who?
[22:20:26] <Getty> normally if you right click on the game area, the avatar moves to this point
[22:20:41] <eviltar> ok
[22:20:44] <Getty> if you have gumps and you right click on the game area (and you dont have pause on gumps) then he never stops walking
[22:21:02] <Getty> you cant stop him walking, till you close all gumps
[22:21:07] <eviltar> if you click once he takes off that direction and doesnt stop?
[22:21:11] <Getty> yes
[22:21:19] <Getty> while the gumps are open
[22:21:25] <eviltar> thats a new one to me
[22:21:27] <Getty> he goes on walking when i close them
[22:21:32] <Getty> i must right click again
[22:21:35] <Getty> then he stops there
[22:21:37] <Dominus> can't reproduce
[22:21:43] <Getty> mh, i reproduce it here
[22:21:58] <Getty> i got it all the time, bothered me, i can reproduce it
[22:22:11] <eviltar> you click with which botton, what version of exult, 2 or 3 button mouse?
[22:22:13] <Getty> i dont play fullscreen
[22:22:24] <Getty> right click
[22:22:36] <Getty> its a mouse with a wheel, i guess it technical has 3 buttons, but i dont use the third
[22:22:46] <eviltar> v is version i think
[22:23:06] <eviltar> i shoudl check before i tell u tho
[22:23:25] <Getty> its the current snapshot
[22:23:31] <Getty> wait let me check version
[22:23:41] <Getty> aehm yes "svn" ;) lol
[22:23:53] <Getty> so the current binary snapshot from the webpage
[22:23:55] <Getty> for windows
[22:23:57] <Getty> on a windows 7
[22:25:35] <eviltar> did you say something about fullscreen?
[22:25:44] <Getty> no fullscreen
[22:25:53] <eviltar> does it change that behaivior if its fullcreen/windowed?
[22:26:02] <Getty> i got triple-head setup, fullscreen no good
[22:26:08] <Getty> i cant even go into fullscreen
[22:26:14] <Getty> without having the biggest hazard of my life
[22:26:24] <Getty> so please dont force me todo so
[22:26:43] <eviltar> go into 3000x800 res lol
[22:26:51] <Getty> lol
[22:26:56] <Getty> if that would ever work in fullscreen of games
[22:26:59] <Getty> i would be so happy
[22:27:05] <eviltar> sure it would
[22:27:17] <eviltar> why do you use a 3rd party app to manage your displays tho
[22:27:23] <Getty> mh?
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[22:27:30] <Dominus> 3000x800 can be done with exult
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[22:27:32] <Getty> i never saw that DirectX took over more than the first head
[22:27:36] <Getty> over several displays?
[22:27:37] <eviltar> instead of the nvidia/catalyst controls?
[22:27:46] <Getty> i use just the windows control
[22:27:55] <eviltar> i have 2 lcd on my desk
[22:28:00] <Getty> i have 3 heads
[22:28:08] <eviltar> plus 1080p tv
[22:28:08] <Getty> laptop screen + display on vga + display via USB
[22:28:25] <Dominus> what happens if you cut one off? do you grow another one or two or three?
[22:28:29] <Getty> my TV is another computer connected with synergy (which also hates exult, i had to deactivate it)
[22:28:43] <Getty> Ha ha ;)
[22:28:51] <eviltar> see what is synergy?
[22:29:06] <eviltar> why do you use it instead of letting windows manage your displayes
[22:29:24] <eviltar> -e
[22:30:26] <Dominus> anyway can't reproduce with current SVN on OS X, container open, right click, avatar moves there and is standing still
[22:30:40] <Getty> he?
[22:30:48] <Getty> synergy is just for connecting ANOTHER computer
[22:30:51] <Getty> checkout what synergy is ;)
[22:30:52] <Getty> its awesome
[22:30:59] <eviltar> like VNC?
[22:31:06] <Getty> VNC without the display
[22:31:08] <Getty> just keyboard mouse
[22:31:17] <eviltar> a shell?
[22:31:22] <Getty> you leave your 1. computer on the right and you jump over to the 2. computer on the left
[22:31:26] <Getty> even tho those are 2 different OS
[22:31:32] <Getty> but you still have one keyboard and one mouse
[22:31:37] <eviltar> ohh
[22:31:42] <eviltar> like a kvm switch
[22:31:42] <Getty> its synergy, its unique for this
[22:31:48] <Getty> somehow, but more cool
[22:31:52] <Getty> synergy is very very known
[22:32:01] <Getty> there is just "win2vnc" and "x2vnc" which does the same
[22:32:02] <Getty> but use VNC
[22:32:07] <Getty> or better misuse VNC
[22:32:10] <eviltar> a kvm cable is cheap
[22:32:11] <Getty> but synergy is awesome, it owns
[22:32:15] <Getty> checkout synergy
[22:32:16] <eviltar> and doesnt interfere with anything
[22:32:22] <Getty> trust me synergy rulez
[22:32:26] <Getty> you dont know what you talk about
[22:32:39] <Getty> you got one cursor over all desktops
[22:32:44] <Getty> you dont need to explicit "switch"
[22:32:48] <Getty> its just one movement
[22:33:02] <eviltar> i think i understand
[22:33:06] <Getty> you forget that you got several computers, you use it all as one unit
[22:33:14] <eviltar> but i use pc's differently
[22:33:15] <Getty> its just sad that you cant move the tasks over ;
[22:33:16] <Getty> ;)
[22:33:24] <eviltar> I just run Virtual machines
[22:33:46] <Getty> i like to splitup "working" from the media computer but still use the media computer normal with mouse and keyboard for stuff
[22:33:47] <eviltar> instead of having 3 computers on :P
[22:33:54] <Getty> hehe i just have
[22:33:54] <Getty> 2
[22:34:07] <Getty> thats ok, one for media and one for working
[22:34:18] <Getty> (and a server, but iof course no display, so not caring LOL)
[22:34:29] <eviltar> vnc has a web interface you could use
[22:34:35] <Getty> not really ;)
[22:34:40] <Getty> synergy rulez
[22:34:46] <Getty> you dont want anything else if you start using it
[22:34:51] <Getty> its like a drug
[22:34:57] <eviltar> until i cant play exult :P
[22:35:06] <Getty> yeah there is a order of pleasure
[22:35:12] <Getty> exult is prior to synergy
[22:35:13] <Getty> so its dropped
[22:35:18] <Getty> and i connected a mouse to the media PC
[22:35:19] <Getty> ;)
[22:36:09] <Getty> damn it feels like i miss a cathelletic helmet....
[22:36:11] <eviltar> well, there is more than one way to skin a cat
[22:48:45] <eviltar> and i tried in win7, turned off gumps pause game, opened a container, clicked, and only moved to where i clicked at
[22:50:33] <Dominus> ok, now I've finally found the culprit. My system can finally make os x snapshots and upload them when my Mac is turned on and I receive a SVN update mail (for trunk only)! Hooray!
[22:50:46] <Dominus> eviltar: thanks for testing
[22:52:01] <eviltar> np
[22:52:55] <eviltar> i had ppl reporting bugs on my latest super mario wars build
[22:53:06] <eviltar> that were using the beta release
[22:53:34] <eviltar> derp
[22:56:11] <eviltar> i was thinking abotu the talk abotu gump visibility in dark area's
[22:56:32] <eviltar> it the darkness an overlay?
[22:56:44] <Dominus> not AFAIK
[22:56:59] <eviltar> or there's no z index for the layers?
[22:57:10] <Dominus> it's a palette change which affects all of the rendered stuff :(
[22:57:19] <eviltar> ah
[22:57:34] <Dominus> I could be wrong though, not 100% sure since I'm not actually a coding dev
[22:57:46] <Dominus> (mostly just a writing dev)
[22:57:54] <eviltar> i'm inclined to take your word for it
[22:58:10] <eviltar> if it was as easy as changing the index for layers
[22:58:20] <eviltar> i think someone would have thought of that already
[22:59:23] <eviltar> well, th mouse cursor is still bright green :\
[23:00:29] <eviltar> so its not effecting ALL rendering, unless sdl puts it on top of the game layer
[23:01:33] <Dominus> it's actually not bright green
[23:01:47] <Dominus> or not as bright as when it is bright light
[23:02:16] <Dominus> easy test, when in the dark turn on infravision (alt+i) and off and look at the cursor
[23:02:27] <Dominus> well, anyway, Malignant broke the snapshot
[23:03:31] <eviltar> dammit, yeah you're right
[23:03:46] <eviltar> its just so f'n bright green it still looks bright in the dark
[23:07:53] <Dominus> yes, that's why Malignant was searching for a good color to paint the gumps in, so they stay more visible
[23:24:37] --> Malignant_Manor has joined #exult
[23:24:45] <Malignant_Manor> Menus work fine on my end.
[23:25:37] <Malignant_Manor> I guess I can add make sure it the bool is initialized when you don't go in the menu.
[23:30:55] <Malignant_Manor> How about this patch? http://pastebin.com/XNfGjBXD
[23:34:23] <Dominus> a moment, need to compile (4 minutes)
[23:47:24] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: that works
[23:47:41] <Malignant_Manor> Why are Macs so stable?
[23:48:06] <Dominus> because they follow standards better :)
[23:48:30] <Malignant_Manor> Then why do they keep failing when Windows doesn't?
[23:48:32] <Dominus> probably would have failed on linux as well
[23:48:43] <Malignant_Manor> Most likely.
[23:48:57] <Dominus> just because Windows accepts it doesn't make it right :)
[23:49:05] <Dominus> like IE :)
[23:54:18] <Malignant_Manor> I need to get a virtual machine setup.
[23:55:57] <Malignant_Manor> Does the Exult menu properly exclude the sfx packs?
[23:56:20] <Dominus> yes, but let me double check
[23:56:53] <Dominus> yes
[23:57:31] <Dominus> a virtual machine might annoy you when you already are complaining about the speed of your PC
[23:57:41] <Dominus> how long does it take you to build exult?
[23:58:07] <Malignant_Manor> I'm not sure. I'm doing no optimizations when I build.
[23:59:17] <Malignant_Manor> 2.4 ghz P4