#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Mar 2001 (GMT)

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[00:00:05] <DraX> it's not as relative
[00:00:39] <matt0> I have spent a little time on security
[00:00:42] <matt0> not as much as I could
[00:01:09] <DraX> i will agree linux is at the momment more scalable
[00:01:20] <DraX> but kernel level threading and smp are coming
[00:01:32] <matt0> hehe I am not arguing on behalf of linux
[00:01:35] <matt0> well.. I mean..
[00:01:39] <matt0> I love linux that's why I use it hehe
[00:01:47] <matt0> but I am aware it has room for improvement
[00:01:59] <DraX> and sense the people who develop the kernel also develop the distro, the architecutres that openbsd is ported to, are easily accesable
[00:02:10] <DraX> i often see that the kernel supports a arch in linux
[00:02:15] <DraX> but there are really no distros that do
[00:02:19] <Fingolfin> thats the right attitude, folks: "I like it, but I know it has room for improvements" ;)
[00:02:34] <DraX> sort of like my feelings of exult
[00:02:41] <DraX> best game engine i've ever seen
[00:02:45] <Fingolfin> what I dislike is fantism: "my OS is better than yours in any way, it is the best OS of all" is plain stupid, IMHO
[00:02:46] <DraX> but it needs improvment
[00:02:48] <Kirben> Has anyone noticed exult still seems to get many random crashes with long use ? I'm wondering if they are win32 specific
[00:02:54] <Fingolfin> DraX: true
[00:03:09] <DraX> Fingolfin, i'm not gonna say something sucks, and not prove to you why it uscks
[00:03:11] <matt0> I have been recently excited about getting video working well in linux
[00:03:21] <DraX> but i think ALOT of stuff sucks ;)
[00:03:23] <Fingolfin> DraX: good, too ;)
[00:03:34] <Fingolfin> hehe
[00:03:38] <Fingolfin> stop saying the obvious ;)
[00:03:51] <Fingolfin> you are a clone of me, arenīt you? ;)
[00:03:53] <DraX> which is one of the reasons the atheos deveoper and me don't get along
[00:04:06] <DraX> Fingolfin, possibly
[00:04:14] <DraX> i call alot of stuff crap
[00:04:18] <DraX> and i point out why
[00:04:20] <DraX> and he dosen't like it
[00:04:39] <DraX> he also doesn't beleive he need fix anything
[00:04:43] <DraX> which pisses me off
[00:04:46] <DraX> ugh
[00:04:47] <matt0> well if it's a free project, you shouldn't complain about it, IMO
[00:04:55] <matt0> that isn't very polite to do
[00:05:02] <matt0> you should just fix it hehe
[00:05:05] <DraX> matt0, it's not really free in my definition
[00:05:13] <DraX> he won't let anyone else develop
[00:05:20] <matt0> I just meant in general
[00:05:26] <DraX> and if you submit a patch, and he dosen't like how it's coded
[00:05:28] <DraX> it won't go in
[00:05:42] <matt0> hehe
[00:07:13] <matt0> I might be guilty of that
[00:07:57] <DraX> this is also the guy that threatens to change licenses if it splits
[00:08:02] <matt0> I don't like it when people copy and paste in their code
[00:09:02] <matt0> well it sounds like... I agree with both of your points of view
[00:09:45] <matt0> even if it is a "free" project (depending on your definition) I think the guy who created it and offered it to the public deserves the courtesy of being in charge of its development
[00:10:01] <DraX> matt0, he won't let anyone else help
[00:10:03] <matt0> I think it would be pretty rude for someone to grab his code and fork
[00:10:21] <DraX> but does he have the right to change the license?
[00:10:24] <matt0> I am struggling with these issues myself
[00:11:37] <matt0> if he won't let anyone else help.. why did he open the source code?
[00:11:46] <DraX> i don't know
[00:11:55] <DraX> he has accepted one patch in the entire history
[00:12:00] <DraX> and he basically rewrote the entire thing
[00:12:03] <matt0> strange
[00:12:16] <DraX> he'll put things in the base install
[00:12:24] <DraX> but won't let anyone else work on the code
[00:12:33] <DraX> like my Dvorak keymap is in the base install
[00:13:49] <matt0> hehe
[00:14:11] <Fingolfin> well
[00:14:19] <Fingolfin> he owns the code; hence he actually can change the license
[00:14:30] <matt0> that reminds me of this quake 2 mod I used to work on. THe guy who wrote it had TONS of bugs in his code that he never fixed and he never added anything I wanted to add. So I took his code and made my own modifications to it and ran a server with it and he got mad.
[00:14:35] <Fingolfin> however, older versions stay under the license they are develop under, AFAIK
[00:14:43] <DraX> Fingolfin, thats true
[00:14:47] <Fingolfin> anyway
[00:14:55] <DraX> Fingolfin, and all the already done code is under that license
[00:14:57] <matt0> so what I'm saying is.. I can see both sides of the story
[00:15:09] <Fingolfin> I too considered these issues when I decided to release my app under the GPL...
[00:15:13] <DraX> so to really pull it off he'd have to \rewrite it all
[00:15:18] <Fingolfin> I still am in charge, but I can let people help
[00:15:25] <Fingolfin> bad
[00:15:27] <DraX> i release under BSD, and x11
[00:15:32] <Fingolfin> he is just to untrusting
[00:15:40] <matt0> on one hand if the developer is unwilling to fix his problems or improve on his code, it's frustrating. On the other hand, it's frustrating for the developer to feel like he is being forced to work on his project to prevent people from taking it over.
[00:15:45] <Fingolfin> it is OK that he looks over stuff before taking it into the core
[00:15:58] <DraX> i agree
[00:15:58] <Fingolfin> but its stupid to not accept any changes at all
[00:16:19] <DraX> i mean, we don't take bug fixes into spk without looking over it
[00:16:49] <Fingolfin> sure
[00:16:52] <Fingolfin> what is spk?
[00:16:58] <DraX> Simple Packaging Kit
[00:17:15] <Fingolfin> what is "Simple Packaging Kit" ? ;)
[00:17:21] <DraX> it's a packaging system
[00:17:22] <Fingolfin> please excuse my ignorance
[00:17:27] <Fingolfin> like RPM?
[00:17:32] <DraX> ya
[00:17:53] <Fingolfin> pros?
[00:18:05] <DraX> all packages are put in catagories
[00:18:11] <DraX> XML based config
[00:18:31] <DraX> were working on a new feature
[00:18:33] <DraX> called meta packaging
[00:18:42] <DraX> it allows you to install spks into an rpm system
[00:18:49] <DraX> and installs rpm into spk
[00:19:23] <DraX> it will do the same with dpkg
[00:19:25] <DraX> but rpm first
[00:19:25] <Fingolfin> ah I see
[00:19:33] <Fingolfin> so, will it work on multiple OS?
[00:19:48] <DraX> currently it runs on openbsd, atheos, linux, as tested
[00:19:49] <Fingolfin> like linux, bsd, solaris
[00:19:50] <DraX> it's in perl
[00:19:51] <Fingolfin> cool
[00:20:00] <Fingolfin> so I might be able to port it to OS X eventually?
[00:20:02] <DraX> so it will run on almost anthing that supports perl
[00:20:09] <Fingolfin> how hard would that be, can one give an estimate?
[00:20:12] <Fingolfin> cool
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[00:23:13] <DraX> sor ry
[00:23:16] <DraX> it will porlly port to os x
[00:25:09] <DraX> Fingolfin, 0.80 will be nice and clean
[00:25:15] <DraX> and were going to try to get bug reports
[00:25:18] <DraX> it's also modular
[00:25:18] <Fingolfin> cool
[00:25:23] <Fingolfin> cooler ;)
[00:25:33] <DraX> any programming language that can parse command args can be a module
[00:26:59] <DraX> so, you can write them in obscure dead languages
[00:27:06] <DraX> like i did one in smalltalk for fun
[00:28:20] <DraX> we have stuff done in perl and python
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[00:35:06] <DraX> Fingolfin, here is a paper i wrote on it a while ago: http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/196/
[00:35:55] <Fingolfin> cool, I put it on my TO DO stack and will read it later. right now I am busy with trying to get PythonSDL run on Mac ;)
[00:36:15] <DraX> why python?
[00:37:45] <Fingolfin> because I am helping ShreadWheat on #SDL, he wants to know if pygame runs on mac out of the box and/or which changes are needed
[00:40:50] * DraX is sick :(
[00:45:13] <Fingolfin> :/
[00:45:17] <Fingolfin> you shouldn't
[00:45:20] <Fingolfin> it has no advantage ;)
[00:45:35] <DraX> it sucks
[00:50:31] <DraX> brb
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[01:00:41] <Fingolfin> wb
[01:13:20] * DraX is eating chinese food
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[02:37:11] <Maloh> Hi
[02:39:32] <Maloh> Goodnight all
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[16:10:53] <DraX> hey
[16:12:05] * DraX is compiling qt :(
[16:12:13] <DraX> 2.2.3 so i can compile netraider
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[16:39:35] <DraX> hey
[16:39:44] <DraX> qt compiles slowly.
[16:39:48] <Fingolfin> hiya
[16:40:13] <DraX> what i do to get away from netscape :)
[16:42:28] <DraX> wow, zip drives for $30 a peice
[16:42:32] <DraX> internal ide
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[17:12:57] * DraX is gone. nobody home! (autoaway/30m) (sph/log)
[17:20:14] <DraX> Fingolfin, what is lab schedule anyway?
[17:20:23] <Fingolfin> ?!? sorry
[17:20:25] <Fingolfin> ?
[17:20:33] <Fingolfin> what are you talking 'bout?
[17:20:39] <DraX> it's in the exult schedule stuff
[17:21:15] <DraX> lab_schedule
[17:23:37] <DraX> is it when the magicians mix up stuff in pots etc
[17:28:36] <Fingolfin> no cloue, not from me ;)
[17:29:50] <DraX> i thought you did all the schedule stuff
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[17:31:34] <Colourless> hi
[17:33:43] <Fingolfin> hi ryan
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[17:56:07] <DraX> hello
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[17:57:42] <DraX> hey'lo
[17:57:53] <Colourless> hi
[17:57:57] <DraX> how are you?
[17:58:09] * DraX wants a mac
[17:58:33] <Colourless> i'm ok... mostly
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[18:07:00] <Fingolfin> DraX: why? because of OS X ? :)
[18:09:28] <DraX> ya
[18:10:08] <DraX> brb
[18:12:09] <DraX> back
[18:13:32] <Colourless> you were gone a long time
[18:13:42] <DraX> not really
[18:13:51] <Colourless> I know. All of 2 minues
[18:14:04] <DraX> brb(be RIGHT back) :P
[18:14:33] <Colourless> oooh ;)
[18:16:09] <DraX> i'm building qt
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[18:20:53] <Dominus> hi
[18:20:59] <Colourless> hi
[18:21:28] <DraX> hi
[18:24:52] <DraX> woohoo! qt built correctly
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[19:19:32] <Flyn_Oakplume> Heya!
[19:20:45] <Colourless> hi
[19:20:57] <Flyn_Oakplume> Hows it going?
[19:21:04] <Colourless> ok
[19:21:20] <Flyn_Oakplume> great
[19:21:28] <Colourless> :)
[19:21:56] <Flyn_Oakplume> heh
[19:21:59] <Flyn_Oakplume> I'm bored
[19:22:15] <Colourless> oh
[19:22:28] * Colourless attempts to have a conversation by only saying 2 characters at a time
[19:22:48] * Flyn_Oakplume laughs out loud.
[19:23:37] * Flyn_Oakplume goes off to make some more art for Exult.
[19:23:48] <Colourless> ok
[19:23:50] <Colourless> ;)
[19:23:51] * Flyn_Oakplume Flyn_Oakplume_Art
[19:23:53] <Flyn_Oakplume> hehe
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[19:27:56] <DraX> every box i build qt on it locks up on the same file
[19:28:08] <DraX> every bsd box, never tried it on anything else
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[20:33:38] <wjp> hi guys
[20:33:54] <DraX> hey
[20:35:18] <wjp> so, what did I miss over the weekend?
[20:35:50] <DraX> theres something to miss?
[20:36:02] <wjp> dunno... I was away
[20:36:02] <DraX> corsair ram is obscenely expensive
[20:36:14] <wjp> sdram is obscenely cheap ;-)
[20:36:28] <DraX> well 64mb is $30, where 128mb of generic is $30
[20:38:02] <Fingolfin> hi wjp
[20:38:16] <Fingolfin> I got OS X running ;) but no exult yet...
[20:38:20] <Fingolfin> lacking automake
[20:38:24] <Fingolfin> need to install that first
[20:38:33] <Fingolfin> but right now I am in old MacOS
[20:38:39] <DraX> $53 for a 1u powersupply, god damn
[20:39:52] <wjp> brb
[20:40:46] <DraX> ok i need to stop complaining about corsair prices :)
[20:40:53] <DraX> 32mb of ram for my laptop is $42
[20:52:36] <wjp> b
[21:02:13] * DraX is bored
[21:04:03] * wjp too
[21:08:41] <DraX> go make it os you can disable sound :)
[21:08:43] <DraX> completly
[21:08:51] <wjp> in the build?
[21:08:59] <wjp> or just while running?
[21:09:01] <DraX> ya
[21:09:13] <wjp> which one? :-)
[21:09:17] <DraX> build
[21:09:41] <wjp> ./configure --disable-timidity --disable-libkmid --disable...
[21:09:54] <DraX> what about digitla sound?
[21:10:02] <wjp> hmm
[21:10:06] <wjp> ok, good point
[21:12:20] <DraX> wjp, for my own vanity, can i go in credits.txt :))
[21:13:43] <DraX> does anything other then sound use threading?
[21:17:40] <wjp> hmm... yes, you can, and depends on platform
[21:18:04] <DraX> wjp, unix
[21:18:12] <DraX> wjp, and thanks
[21:19:20] <wjp> the threading is an sdl issue. exult doesn't explicitly use any threads (other than for audio), but sdl might
[21:19:42] <DraX> i gotta upgrade to openbsd -current
[21:19:57] <DraX> i'm almost certain the problem is not exult
[21:20:07] <DraX> and that it's sdl
[21:20:20] <wjp> Alex Botero-Lowry, right?
[21:20:25] <DraX> yup
[21:20:44] <DraX> i'm downloading cvs source to give it one more try before i upgrade openbsd
[21:21:23] <DraX> i really ought to learn to code :)
[21:21:28] <wjp> which version were you using before?
[21:21:41] <DraX> of openbsd or exult?
[21:21:51] <DraX> a2 of exult
[21:21:53] <DraX> and 2.8 of openbsd
[21:23:00] <wjp> I added a disable-sound option somewhere in the last weeks
[21:23:14] <wjp> you'll still need to build with sound, but no audio calls are ever made then
[21:23:19] <DraX> ok, well i'm getting one of kirbens cvs snapshots
[21:24:47] <DraX> and if i ever do get it to work, i'll talk to chris about getting nightly cvs builds going on openbsd :)
[21:25:36] <wjp> chris?
[21:25:48] <DraX> he admins an openbsd box i have an account on
[21:25:57] <wjp> ah, I see. cool :-)
[21:26:13] <DraX> sense this is the coolest project under the sun!!
[21:28:21] <wjp> :-)
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[21:31:07] <DraX> if someone did the art, would it be hard to make a scifi game with the exult engine?
[21:31:18] <DraX> sense there of the same facid and all
[21:32:54] <wjp> at the moment, yes
[21:33:08] <DraX> well once we have some way to modify the plot lines
[21:33:22] <DraX> sense it's just a complete rpg engine really
[21:33:35] <wjp> well, we do plan to get there eventually
[21:33:53] <DraX> i mean in the future not now :)
[21:36:39] <DraX> do any other of the ultima games use the same find of usecode?
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[21:53:40] * DraX installs automake/autoconf :P
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[22:19:20] <DraX> ok, gumps/gump_utils.h needs something
[22:19:47] <DraX> add #ifdef OPENBSD
[22:19:58] <DraX> #include <sys/types.h>
[22:20:05] <DraX> #include <unistd.h>
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