#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Mar 2002 (GMT)

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[00:53:18] --> ShadwChsr has joined #Exult
[00:53:21] <ShadwChsr> hi :)
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[01:58:28] <Valliant> Hi everyone
[01:59:17] <Valliant> Oookay, a bunch of idle peep's ... this looks like fun. :-)
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[02:34:38] <ShadwChsr> no one here?
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[02:41:08] <sb-x> hi
[02:43:18] <ShadwChsr> hi
[02:43:21] <ShadwChsr> :)
[02:43:24] <ShadwChsr> Fan or developer? :)
[02:43:36] <sb-x> fan
[02:43:51] <sb-x> Well, not really a fanatic, but I do like Exutl a lot. :)
[02:43:55] <sb-x> Exult
[02:44:02] <sb-x> the developers get ops I think
[02:44:07] * ShadwChsr nods
[02:44:13] <ShadwChsr> Do you program at all?
[02:44:26] <ShadwChsr> I'm working on my own project so I come here for inspiration
[02:44:34] <sb-x> Yeah. I do plain C but I think I could work on Exult a bit if I had the time.
[02:44:52] <sb-x> inspiration?
[02:45:07] <ShadwChsr> well I get stuck in some areas with the code
[02:45:08] <ShadwChsr> :P
[02:46:23] <sb-x> what language are you coding with?
[02:46:50] <ShadwChsr> Delphi
[02:47:01] <ShadwChsr> But lower-level.. just using the language not the GUI stuff
[02:47:10] <ShadwChsr> Its very powerfull
[02:47:53] <sb-x> I never saw any code but I heard it has uses similiar to Pascal.
[02:48:16] <ShadwChsr> Yeah
[02:48:43] <ShadwChsr> I like it more than C... My boss says it perfect... C was meant for writing operating systems by super-geniuses, not for writing reliable code ;)
[02:49:06] <ShadwChsr> And lots of popular games are written in delphi... so that's my justification so no raggin on me
[02:49:07] <ShadwChsr> hehehehe
[02:49:29] <ShadwChsr> I'm trying to get a team together to build (make that finish) a game engine
[02:49:41] <ShadwChsr> It's gotten pretty far but I'm stuck on the render order and NO one has any clue.. most just idle
[02:50:14] <sb-x> If I knew anything about Delphi I could help, since I'm stalled on my current project.
[02:50:33] <ShadwChsr> what are you working on?
[02:50:48] <sb-x> a clone of a card game
[02:50:52] <ShadwChsr> Delphi is easy to learn - and best of all, its free
[02:51:03] <ShadwChsr> Think c++ but in pascal
[02:51:25] <ShadwChsr> interested?
[02:51:57] <sb-x> is there a delphi on linux?
[02:52:06] <ShadwChsr> It's called kylix
[02:52:22] <sb-x> oh im at the page
[02:52:30] <ShadwChsr> But right now I'm using Direct-X so a port won't work. I'm coding all the direct-x stuff independant, however so we can port it later
[02:52:50] <sb-x> exult uses SDL
[02:53:01] <ShadwChsr> 100% of the opensource games are developed on linux, so I wanted to focus on Windows
[02:53:17] <sb-x> heh
[02:53:21] <sb-x> 100%? :)
[02:53:53] <ShadwChsr> 99% then ;)
[02:54:13] <ShadwChsr> www.sourceforge.net/projects/lupercalia
[02:54:23] <ShadwChsr> I have screenshots too if you're interested
[02:54:52] <sb-x> It would be too slow to send since I'm downloading an episode from an anime show
[02:54:59] <sb-x> all my bandwidth is in use
[02:55:35] * ShadwChsr nods
[02:55:41] <sb-x> but I'm going to the sf page
[02:56:07] <sb-x> cool
[02:56:09] <sb-x> isometric
[02:56:25] <sb-x> I like that but it seems a lot of people I know dont :\
[02:57:01] * ShadwChsr nods
[02:57:19] <ShadwChsr> I decided on 2D since 3D is over my head righ tnow
[02:57:33] <ShadwChsr> I thought I'd fail after a week.. but I picked it up real fast
[02:57:49] <sb-x> Hmm
[02:57:50] <ShadwChsr> I have a map editor, a flexible resource file format, and the game executable itself
[02:58:10] <sb-x> I've started a 3D engine.
[02:58:12] <ShadwChsr> Right now I can walk & run around the map, simple collision detection, buildings, etc
[02:58:15] <ShadwChsr> and a lot of backend code.
[02:58:22] <sb-x> heh
[02:58:32] <ShadwChsr> Well what I want to do is build the core in 2d and put 3d overtop for effects
[02:58:36] <sb-x> Last time I worked on my program (months ago), all it had was the GUI
[02:58:46] <ShadwChsr> Then as I learn 3d transition the original game
[02:58:48] <sb-x> so I still have a long way to go
[02:58:50] * ShadwChsr nods
[02:58:55] <sb-x> hmm
[02:59:10] <sb-x> ultimately I have the similiar goals as you
[02:59:18] <ShadwChsr> Interested in helping? I want to get a group of people together - if at the very least to share ideas and concepts
[02:59:28] <ShadwChsr> theres **nothing** on making good isometric games
[02:59:35] <ShadwChsr> just simple ones ie/ player jumps between tiles
[02:59:36] <ShadwChsr> :)
[03:00:00] <sb-x> do you intend to start a MUD/MMORPG type game in the future?
[03:00:12] <ShadwChsr> Well I'll give you an idea of the plan
[03:00:21] <ShadwChsr> Right now I'm working on the engine
[03:00:35] <ShadwChsr> To start - just graphics & simple gameplay (open doors, etc)
[03:00:44] <ShadwChsr> No AI or single player game code
[03:01:14] <ShadwChsr> Once the engine is at a playable level, no matter how simple (for example I might not have multiple floors at that point) I want to build some usecode
[03:01:34] <ShadwChsr> Going to take one of the opensource UO server simulators and rework it for the engine
[03:01:40] <sb-x> <-- has designed Modular Object bytecode language :)
[03:01:42] <ShadwChsr> Put the scripting game code into it
[03:01:45] <ShadwChsr> Woohoo! :)
[03:01:56] <sb-x> ooh
[03:01:57] <ShadwChsr> Then you can have a MMORPG game
[03:02:08] <sb-x> are you going to stay with the UO server?
[03:02:26] <ShadwChsr> Eventually I'll take the usecode out of that and put it into the single player game.. so the same engine can work for single player and multiplayer games
[03:02:35] <ShadwChsr> I'm going to start with it, but break compatibility
[03:02:48] <ShadwChsr> Since maps, etc will be a different structure
[03:02:53] <ShadwChsr> and I don't want EA mad at me :)
[03:03:21] <ShadwChsr> Most projects that I've seen start big... ie/ we want to clone every feature in UO's client
[03:03:30] <sb-x> If you continue working on it, where do you see yourself in <10 years? A server with hundreds of players and several single player games out?
[03:03:37] <ShadwChsr> I'm going to start with reasonable goals (I want houses ;) and build on them as I succeed on the original goal
[03:03:53] <ShadwChsr> (now that houses are done I'll add multiple floors, spell effects, etc, etc)
[03:03:58] <sb-x> I am having houses, but in a much different fashion then UO I think
[03:04:32] <ShadwChsr> What I want to do is once the engine has progressed to a certain level, finish designing the world (I've started the basics)
[03:04:51] <ShadwChsr> And have that as the first game server. I won't release server binaries yet, but all the source will be available
[03:05:19] <ShadwChsr> That way the "core" game will get popular. If I release the server binaries right away every 12 year old will make a server and there'll be 1,000 servers with 3 players each :)
[03:05:40] <ShadwChsr> Gotta get the core world popular so you don't get that fragmentation - if that happens it wont get popular and the project will go unnoticed
[03:05:46] <sb-x> my goal is to have one server, not to keep it popular, but because I want to have a unified world rather than "shards"
[03:05:53] <ShadwChsr> Yes, 100% unified
[03:05:54] <ShadwChsr> no shards
[03:06:06] <ShadwChsr> What i'm going to do is build an authentication server that I/we/team controls
[03:06:08] <sb-x> I've got a world map drawn but no name :)
[03:06:18] <ShadwChsr> That way "good" servers can hook into that server network
[03:06:30] <ShadwChsr> So when you boot up the game to that authentication server, it brings up a list of games
[03:06:54] <ShadwChsr> There's benifits that way - think of the UO simulators. You need to register for an account, wait a week, and THEN find out their server sucks ;)
[03:07:04] <sb-x> I havn't played UO
[03:07:17] <sb-x> only know what I heard
[03:07:20] <ShadwChsr> If the servers group together into a single network, they all trust a single account server and you signup once. Each server you hit you get different players
[03:08:12] <sb-x> I figured I could tie several servers together to host the same world, but different sections
[03:08:13] <ShadwChsr> So you could have an account - "Eric" with a password. Login, then select the server I want to play (mabye not the core one, mabye a futuristic one). Once I'm there it auto-signs me up and I create the player there
[03:08:15] <sb-x> If I needed
[03:08:18] <ShadwChsr> Me too
[03:08:43] <ShadwChsr> The same way U7/exult transitions between superchunks (maps), you could do the same for server connections
[03:08:55] <ShadwChsr> as you get ~1 map away from the next server it starts loading the connection
[03:09:11] <sb-x> My world is divided into "grids" instead of "maps"
[03:09:12] <ShadwChsr> once you hit the map edge and seemlessly move to the next map, the "main" server connection swaps
[03:09:17] <ShadwChsr> Would work like an IRC network
[03:09:22] <ShadwChsr> Well what you call a grid I call a map :)
[03:09:28] <ShadwChsr> The "maps" are designed to be seemless
[03:09:45] <sb-x> The "grids" are designed to be streaming
[03:09:50] <sb-x> you can download them in chunks
[03:09:59] <sb-x> and it will show whatever you have downloaded
[03:10:01] * ShadwChsr nods
[03:10:14] <sb-x> they are only 2D, but they simulate 3D with layers
[03:10:17] <ShadwChsr> Mine will download the entire map, but they will be small and load in the background so you don't wait
[03:10:29] <ShadwChsr> I want to add streaming though
[03:10:44] <ShadwChsr> Right now it has 3 layers - ground, overlay (ground transitions), and objects/players/etc
[03:10:56] <ShadwChsr> Later on I'll add height effects to the ground
[03:11:03] <ShadwChsr> I have some stretching routines I can use
[03:11:25] <ShadwChsr> The server will likely be written in C
[03:11:28] <sb-x> I should mention that most of this is in my head.
[03:11:33] * ShadwChsr nods
[03:11:34] <sb-x> You havn't written the server?
[03:11:35] <ShadwChsr> (brb 1 sec)
[03:11:37] <sb-x> ok
[03:12:05] <sb-x> the "server" is basically the only thing I have now :) like I said, my 3D client only got to the GUI stage
[03:13:03] <sb-x> heh is suraimu a dev?
[03:13:23] <ShadwChsr> (back)
[03:13:29] <ShadwChsr> no idea
[03:13:32] <ShadwChsr> I
[03:13:36] <ShadwChsr> I'm the only developer so far
[03:13:39] <sb-x> oh
[03:13:42] <sb-x> I was looking at your forum
[03:13:45] <ShadwChsr> I have "groupies" who are interested but they dont want to work
[03:13:45] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[03:13:48] <sb-x> and saw a post
[03:13:48] <sb-x> oh
[03:14:02] <ShadwChsr> Isn't suraimu a developer for exult?
[03:14:05] <sb-x> no
[03:14:17] <sb-x> I know his name because he posts to the exult discussion forum
[03:14:23] <ShadwChsr> ahh thats where I heard it too
[03:14:37] <ShadwChsr> I think I should really send you a screenshot
[03:14:41] <sb-x> If you continue with your plans, we will be in competition with eachother in the future won't we?
[03:14:45] <sb-x> yeah
[03:14:52] <ShadwChsr> what do you mean?
[03:15:03] <sb-x> since we're doing the same thing basically
[03:15:07] * ShadwChsr nods
[03:15:51] <ShadwChsr> I really wanted to join an existing project and work with them
[03:15:56] <ShadwChsr> Exult is probably the best so far
[03:16:18] <ShadwChsr> But.. I wanted to build something unique, not on someone else's game
[03:16:39] <ShadwChsr> All the "unique" opensource rpg projects are way too ambitious and I have a feeling they'll fail
[03:16:43] <sb-x> me too
[03:16:47] <ShadwChsr> So I got frustrated and started coding
[03:16:47] <sb-x> hmm
[03:16:50] <sb-x> how so?
[03:16:57] <ShadwChsr> Well take worldforge for example
[03:17:07] <ShadwChsr> They want to build a server that works for 3d, 2d, and text clients
[03:17:49] <ShadwChsr> Because everyone who's part of that project has a different idea, the project wants to do everything to make everyone happy
[03:18:04] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[03:18:04] <ShadwChsr> I'd rather focus a team's efforts on one idea, and build on the successes
[03:18:18] <ShadwChsr> It's not easy building a team that way though, because everyone has a different vision
[03:18:29] <ShadwChsr> That's why I'm focusing on the engine itself and not the world yet.
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[03:19:02] <ShadwChsr> Even if other developers don't want to join me, I at least want to get a group of developers together with simmilar goals to help overcome obsticles
[03:19:28] <sb-x> Hmm
[03:19:37] <sb-x> I never knew that worldforge wanted to do the same thing I do :)
[03:20:07] <ShadwChsr> Its a cool idea but I doubt it will work
[03:20:17] <ShadwChsr> how do you define a 3d object for a 2d client?
[03:20:20] <ShadwChsr> Like a building?
[03:20:23] <ShadwChsr> On the same map?
[03:20:24] <ShadwChsr> You cant
[03:20:27] <ShadwChsr> :)
[03:20:35] <sb-x> buildings are a part of the grid
[03:20:45] <sb-x> objects have bounding box information
[03:20:57] <ShadwChsr> You end up with the same problems as web developers have
[03:21:06] <ShadwChsr> A game designer would have no control over the presentation of the game
[03:21:17] <ShadwChsr> mabye they want that object to look /just right/ but the 3d client turns it to chopped liver
[03:21:23] <ShadwChsr> :)
[03:21:26] <sb-x> I don't need it. In HTML the user should control what they see too
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[03:21:45] * Darke bounces in and bows. "Hi."
[03:21:51] <ShadwChsr> The user shouldn't have control - the developer must always have control of the presentation of the game
[03:22:01] <ShadwChsr> People like 3d cause its the thing to do :)
[03:22:17] <sb-x> I plan to write complete documentation on my net/object protocol for that specific reason in fact. Because I want people to be able to write their own clients to connect.
[03:22:19] <sb-x> Hi Darke
[03:22:20] <ShadwChsr> 2D is better (right now) for opensource for a few reasons -
[03:22:34] <ShadwChsr> I can download lots of free 3d models and render them for the game graphics, and use them no problem
[03:22:39] <ShadwChsr> Even buy models and use them
[03:23:12] <ShadwChsr> With 3d, you cant, since you'd be distributing the originals. So you need to develop everything "in-house", and theres a serious lack of game artists who want to work for free :)
[03:23:47] <ShadwChsr> Diablo 2 is an awesome game and it's 100% 2d
[03:24:02] <ShadwChsr> What I want to do is transition the client later on to 3D so it doens't gather dust
[03:24:13] <ShadwChsr> Mabye swap the 2d players for 3d players
[03:24:16] <ShadwChsr> add lighting effects
[03:24:40] <ShadwChsr> Then take the dungeon seige/neverwinter concept of tiles for 3d and swap those in
[03:25:03] <ShadwChsr> 3d is ^3 more difficult than 2d ;)
[03:25:16] <sb-x> My project is the only thing I really want to do, a goal that I'm dedicated too. It isn't an opensource project developed on the web by hobbyists... so I don't think it will "fail".
[03:25:24] <sb-x> tiles for 3d?
[03:25:29] <sb-x> what does that mean?
[03:25:37] <ShadwChsr> Well theres 2 types of 3d games really
[03:25:59] <ShadwChsr> In the "quake" type, you model the entire map, every vertice, then you load the entire thing into the client and start processing it all
[03:26:06] <ShadwChsr> that destroys RPG games. Just look at Ultima 9 :)
[03:26:19] <ShadwChsr> A new concept is to model each "tile", just like you would for a 2d game
[03:26:41] <ShadwChsr> You model a mesh for a river next to grass, one for a house on a lawn, etc
[03:26:43] <ShadwChsr> And texture them
[03:26:56] <ShadwChsr> When you work on the map, you just select the tile and place it next to another
[03:27:06] <sb-x> Ah, yeah I wasn't sure what you meant. The second concept is what I'm doing (but instead of tiles I'm calling the segments of the grids "blocks").
[03:27:26] <ShadwChsr> Drop down a ravine tile, then a grass tile, then a forest time. Just like 2d - Except since they're smaller meshes you can do vast outdoor areas no problem at all
[03:27:42] <ShadwChsr> So I take it you're completely developing 3d?
[03:28:31] <sb-x> I planned on making a 2D client sometime if I had the chance, or getting someone else too
[03:28:37] <ShadwChsr> Why?
[03:28:43] <ShadwChsr> You're already building a 3d client
[03:28:50] <sb-x> After it's done I mean
[03:28:53] * ShadwChsr nods
[03:28:57] <sb-x> If I wanted to
[03:29:04] <sb-x> I guess "planned" wasn't the proper word
[03:29:18] <sb-x> I mean I "could", because like worldforge the grids would work in 2D or 3D I think
[03:29:25] <ShadwChsr> Well it's too bad your ideas are alot different from mine
[03:29:49] <ShadwChsr> theres 100 developers all working on 110 projects ;)
[03:29:59] <ShadwChsr> 108 of which will fail ;)
[03:30:18] <ShadwChsr> give up hope, get stuck, run out of time, no resources, etc
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[03:34:19] <ShadwChsr> *shrug*
[03:34:56] <sb-x> yeah
[03:35:09] <sb-x> nice screen
[03:35:39] <ShadwChsr> Thanks
[03:36:03] <sb-x> does it rotate?
[03:36:22] <ShadwChsr> No
[03:36:32] <ShadwChsr> But I have some cool ideas on seeing behind walls
[03:36:39] <sb-x> it makes me think of the 4th coming
[03:36:42] <ShadwChsr> I have two "levels" of wall - Large & half size
[03:36:48] <sb-x> in that game the walls were translucent
[03:36:57] <ShadwChsr> when the player is "behind" a wall, the wall renders as half size
[03:37:01] <ShadwChsr> sort of like a cut-away
[03:37:01] <ShadwChsr> :)
[03:37:12] <sb-x> oh
[03:37:14] <ShadwChsr> I was on the beta-test for 4th coming
[03:37:21] <ShadwChsr> It was OK :)
[03:37:40] <sb-x> for walls I havn't decided on 3 heights or something greater
[03:37:41] <ShadwChsr> Thats the kind of idea I'm after, just with more variety - like good 'ole U7, not just hacknslash
[03:39:46] <ShadwChsr> Sure theres no way I can get you on-board? :)
[03:40:04] <ShadwChsr> In the end it's all about gameplay not presentation (2d vs 3d)
[03:40:41] <sb-x> are there already npcs?
[03:41:33] <ShadwChsr> Just renders of them. All the NPC code will be handled by the server, which is why it's not written
[03:42:12] <ShadwChsr> I have a huge collection of renders I've made
[03:42:33] <ShadwChsr> I've been gathering support in the 3d community and getting authorization for using renders based on their work in the game
[03:42:52] <ShadwChsr> I think I have enough now to make a game, but I'll keep collecting :)
[03:43:15] <ShadwChsr> I've been using poser - yeah it's not a good 3d app, but one of the best features is that I can apply the same animation to multiple characters
[03:43:32] <ShadwChsr> Thats what I'm going to use to do armour, clothing, and weapon "overlays"
[03:43:56] <ShadwChsr> So the character's appearance changes when the armour or weapon equipped changes
[03:44:15] <ShadwChsr> I've done some test renders and tested using layers in photoshop, it worked perfectly
[03:44:52] <ShadwChsr> I'm going to program support for that in "Stage 2". Stage 1 I just have an option to select a character apperance type and it has the pre-rendered npcish version
[03:45:10] <ShadwChsr> Stage 1 won't be for general use, just a development goal stage
[03:46:13] <sb-x> how many stages are there?
[03:46:30] <ShadwChsr> Right now, 1 written, more in my head
[03:46:35] <ShadwChsr> I dont see an end in sight.
[03:46:41] <ShadwChsr> But I'll explain..
[03:46:55] <ShadwChsr> Stage 1 (client) is to have a nice walkable map. I think I'm 70% there
[03:47:10] <ShadwChsr> I want a player to run, walk around a map, enter buildings, go through forests, etc and have it render perfectly
[03:47:25] <ShadwChsr> Then I want to hook that up to a server and have multiple people walking around said map
[03:48:11] <ShadwChsr> Stage 2 is to add interaction - I want to have stairs you can walk up, doors to open and close, objects to move
[03:48:39] <ShadwChsr> Stage 3 will be seemless transitions between maps.. having nearby maps load in background, etc. I have a plan for that all worked out
[03:49:10] <ShadwChsr> After that... it's basically whatever I feel like :) Stage 3 the game will be playable in a pretty good state, I can see a world built in that
[03:49:13] <-- MisterP has left IRC ("W00t!!!")
[03:50:06] <ShadwChsr> After that I'll just add additional features depending on how the game goes
[03:50:36] <ShadwChsr> I don't want a complete engine plan since it will depend on what can be done and the design of the underlying systems
[03:51:07] <ShadwChsr> Games like "furcadia" (horrible free little thing) have a huge following and a very simple graphics engine
[03:51:26] <ShadwChsr> Does that make sense?
[03:57:28] <sb-x> Sorry I left the room for a momeny.
[03:57:30] <sb-x> moment
[03:57:52] <ShadwChsr> ahh
[03:58:10] <sb-x> Have you played Dransik?
[03:58:13] <ShadwChsr> no
[03:58:16] <sb-x> It's graphics are like UltimaV
[03:58:24] <ShadwChsr> ahh
[03:59:06] <sb-x> You're going to make this into single-player game(s)?
[03:59:12] <sb-x> this engine
[03:59:48] <ShadwChsr> Thats the eventual plan
[04:00:13] <ShadwChsr> :)
[04:00:58] <ShadwChsr> I have tons of ideas
[04:01:08] <ShadwChsr> My biggest complaint with other games is continuity
[04:01:15] <ShadwChsr> Even RG failed at that
[04:01:34] <ShadwChsr> With U 7-9 he built a continuity, but let people change it - the result - U8 and U9 ;)
[04:02:13] <ShadwChsr> I dont want magically appearing continents or time travel or all sorts of other nasty continuity problems
[04:02:29] <ShadwChsr> The "world" will be surrounded by ocean
[04:02:33] <ShadwChsr> known world, that is ;)
[04:02:43] <ShadwChsr> that solves the landmass expansion problem
[04:05:42] * ShadwChsr shrugs
[04:05:49] <sb-x> How big is the world?
[04:05:58] <sb-x> Is it round?
[04:06:11] <ShadwChsr> No, you cant travel from one edge to the other
[04:06:11] <sb-x> spherical
[04:06:15] <ShadwChsr> Size depends on popuarlity
[04:06:15] <sb-x> a planet
[04:06:21] <ShadwChsr> It will be surrounded by endless water
[04:06:41] <ShadwChsr> If you sail off into it.. the ocean map just loops back on itself in one direction until you turn around
[04:06:54] <sb-x> creepy :)
[04:07:07] <ShadwChsr> Well it gives the illusion of a large ocean (one way) :)
[04:07:14] <sb-x> will you tell people that so they don't attempt long journeys?
[04:07:24] <ShadwChsr> Mabye nothing ;)
[04:07:29] <sb-x> I'm the type of person who would decide to go on such a journey
[04:07:33] <ShadwChsr> Probably will be in a FAQ
[04:08:02] <ShadwChsr> and I'm sure smart people will figure out what's going on REAL fast when they turn around and are suddenly back at land in 1 minute when they've been travelling for 1 hour ;)
[04:08:27] <ShadwChsr> I might have a comment like the party in U7 used to make
[04:08:35] <ShadwChsr> "Avatar thou art lost at sea lets go back"
[04:08:43] <ShadwChsr> ;0
[04:08:46] <ShadwChsr> hehehe
[04:09:34] <ShadwChsr> I'll just replace portions of the "endless ocean" with landmasses later on
[04:10:04] <sb-x> "Avatar thou art wasting it!"
[04:10:08] <ShadwChsr> LOL
[04:10:09] <sb-x> "It is about time!"
[04:10:13] <ShadwChsr> "I hate snakes!"
[04:10:26] <ShadwChsr> "Why couldn't we go to a place called 'daisy isle' instead?"
[04:11:56] <ShadwChsr> Do you have any experience programming isometric games?
[04:12:01] <ShadwChsr> or coding concepts?
[04:14:47] <ShadwChsr> I'm stuck with the evil render order :( :(
[04:16:03] <sb-x> no
[04:16:10] <sb-x> wjp and co. are working on Pentagram
[04:16:51] <ShadwChsr> Yeah but how do I contact them?
[04:17:00] <sb-x> Ultima VIII map viewer
[04:17:03] <sb-x> the mailing list
[04:17:13] <ShadwChsr> mailing list?
[04:17:29] <sb-x> exult-general@lists.sourceforge.net
[04:17:50] <ShadwChsr> What should I post? Hello I'm a dork working on a project and have no idea what I'm doing? :) hehehe
[04:18:01] <sb-x> heh
[04:18:02] * sb-x shrugs.
[04:18:08] <ShadwChsr> how do I join it?
[04:18:28] <sb-x> I think all the devs are subscribed so if you ask about Pentagram there everyone who is anyone will know what your talking about.
[04:18:33] <sb-x> hmm, that I forgot
[04:18:42] <sb-x> ?faq
[04:18:42] <exultbot> You can find the official FAQ at: http://exult.sourceforge.net/faq.php
[04:28:57] <ShadwChsr> There I'm on the list and email is away
[04:32:13] <sb-x> ah ok
[04:32:41] <ShadwChsr> the instructions were on the sourceforge dev site
[04:33:00] <sb-x> Yeah I was going to paste the link to the page but I started watching television. :)
[04:33:27] <sb-x> I hope they don't mind discussion about the U8 map viewer.
[04:33:55] <ShadwChsr> I'm a little worried they'll think of it in the same way they think of "multiplayer exult"
[04:34:02] <ShadwChsr> I could get flamed off the list but it's worth a try
[04:34:03] <ShadwChsr> hehehehe
[04:35:48] <sb-x> Since your a developer asking about rendering techniques, and not a user demanding they make a U8 exult, they might not mind.
[04:37:04] <sb-x> Darke: Have you been able to integrate 32bit extensions without any problems?
[04:37:59] <Darke> It doesn't look like they'll be any problems, but I haven't done more then refaimilarise myself with my 'load a function'
[04:38:09] <Darke> code. I haven't touched it in probably 6 months. <grin>
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[04:47:36] <sb-x> Is everything going to be 32bit capable now?
[04:48:03] <sb-x> Or just things dealing with offsets?
[04:48:45] * sb-x realizes he could just read that new usecode text file.
[04:48:49] <Darke> Just offsets.
[04:48:59] <Darke> docs/usecode32.txt IIRC. <grin>
[04:50:30] * Darke is thankful that usecode doesn't allow for dynamically calculated jumps. That. Would. Be. Icky.
[04:57:35] <sb-x> Ok THAT was strange, as usual.
[04:57:53] <sb-x> I was watching The Outer Limits
[04:57:57] <sb-x> o_O
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[05:00:00] <sb-x> It's completely dark in here and they got that weird music goin so it seems even more strange. :P
[05:01:04] * Darke blinkblinks. Fair enough.
[05:08:29] <sb-x> Not that it's not completely cheesy, and cliche... and the narrattor makes me laugh...
[05:08:38] <sb-x> ... but that doesn't mean it isn't "strange". :-)
[05:12:10] * Darke grins.
[05:15:02] <sb-x> What else is strange is this WindowsXP theme I just got for the Blackbox Windowmanager.
[05:16:51] <sb-x> I am repulsed by the similarity to WinXP and Microsoft, but at the same time attracted to the pretty blues of WinXP. :P
[05:17:02] * sb-x decides to keep it.
[05:17:45] * Darke evilgiggles. He sees the MS mind control lazers are functioning correctly.
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[05:19:30] * Darke actually thinks the WinXP colour scheme looks rather ugly. <shrug> But to each, their own. <grin>
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[05:21:32] * sb-x gets lost in the light grey menus with blue hi-lights and doesn't hear a word Darke says.
[05:30:55] * Darke paints sb-x light grey with blue highlights, since he's so distracted.
[05:38:16] * sb-x attempts to find his taskbar.
[05:38:27] * sb-x suffers fatal exception 0E at E82A:4983AB42 and is forced to restart.
[05:39:20] <sb-x> :\
[05:39:22] * sb-x gives Darke a blue carrot.
[05:44:31] * Darke grins, then nibbles on the oddly coloured carrot.
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[06:50:12] <sb-x> Who is MisterP?
[06:50:43] <ShadwChsr> Darke - are you a developer for the game?
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[06:53:45] <Darke> ShadwChsr: Technically yes. <grin> Although I've been a bit 'idle' in development for the last month or so due to Real Life(tm).
[07:06:38] <ShadwChsr> :)
[07:06:45] <ShadwChsr> Oh no it's trademarked now?
[07:06:52] <ShadwChsr> What areas of development were you in?
[07:06:58] <ShadwChsr> Everything & anything?
[07:07:21] <sb-x> ucxt
[07:07:25] <sb-x> at least
[07:07:29] <ShadwChsr> what's that?
[07:07:31] <sb-x> to my knowledge
[07:08:22] <sb-x> decompiles usecode bytecode to assembly or C type code
[07:08:58] <ShadwChsr> ahhhh
[07:09:07] <ShadwChsr> I'm having trouble with render order
[07:09:18] <ShadwChsr> Was hoping some guru would be around to help :)
[07:17:52] * Darke also is general breaker of things, from conf/ to utils.h. *grin*
[07:24:14] <ShadwChsr> ;)
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[09:47:47] <Dominus> hi all
[09:47:59] <matto> dominik!!!!
[09:48:13] <Dominus> matt!!!!
[09:48:34] <matto> how are you doing?
[09:48:46] <Dominus> quite good
[09:49:07] <matto> oh yeah?
[09:49:16] <Dominus> yeah, why not?
[09:49:16] <matto> not just pretty good but _quite_ good, eh?
[09:49:18] <Dominus> :-)
[09:49:36] <Dominus> never be too optimistic :-)
[09:49:37] * Darke bows, "Hi Dominus!"
[09:50:13] <matto> Dominus: hehe
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[10:30:39] <Kirben2> Dominus: shape plugin working fine now ?
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[11:01:54] <Dominus> Kirben2? are you there? I wrote a small readme for the Gimp plugin that should go with your snapshot
[11:02:22] <Kirben2> yes
[11:02:29] <Kirben2> ok dcc
[11:03:10] <Dominus> check how it read for you
[11:04:25] <Dominus> how should I call the download link for the Gimp plugin?
[11:04:47] <Dominus> "The Gimp Plug-in (Windows)"?
[11:06:09] <Kirben2> Gimp Plugin (For Windows)
[11:07:11] <Kirben2> install section of readme.txt could use an alter, change copy u7shp.exe section to change installers path
[11:08:50] <Dominus> huh? just change it if you want (that file will probably have to go into the source /mapedit as Gimpreadme.win32 or something llike that)
[11:09:51] <Kirben2> ok in that case nevermind
[11:11:00] <Dominus> I still didn't get what you meant with alter and so on ... Will you change it and commit to the source or should I do it?
[11:12:48] <Kirben2> I just meant the gimp plugin snapshot allowed install directory to be chosen so no need to copy u7shp.exe manually. I will let you comit file.
[11:13:46] <Dominus> oh right, will change this (I always extract selfextracting files manually - forgot about this)
[11:14:22] <Dominus> the link is now on the download page
[11:15:53] <Dominus> Problem with the instructions is that people will only read them after they extracted the file so I'm not sure how to write this... :-)
[11:17:50] <Dominus> how should I call it? /docs/gimpwn32.txt or /mapedit/gimpwin32.txt ?
[11:18:54] <Kirben2> gimpwin32.txt
[11:19:08] <Dominus> in docs or mapedit?
[11:19:41] <Kirben2> mapedit
[11:19:46] <matto> where is kirben1 and what have you done with him
[11:19:57] <Dominus> ok, will come shortly
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[11:25:12] <Dominus> hi Colourless
[11:25:28] <Colourless> hi
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[11:30:35] <Dominus> ok, file comitted
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[11:38:43] <Fingolfin> yo
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[11:38:48] <Colourless> hi
[11:41:12] <Dominus> hi
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[12:10:54] * Darke bows. Hello again.
[12:11:21] * Darke grumbles in the general direction of his isp.
[12:13:12] <Colourless> hi
[12:14:20] <Dominus> wb
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[12:36:02] <Dominus> what's up today? Porn day? I get about one spam mail every 10 minutes
[12:38:37] <Darke> Hmm... you must be getting all my spam today. *grin* Not a single piece.
[12:38:46] <Dominus> hrmpf
[12:39:09] <Colourless> none here either oddly enough. this is 'very' rare :-)
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[12:39:40] <Nadir> yay
[12:39:41] <Dominus> hi
[12:39:54] <Darke> Hi.
[12:39:56] <Colourless> hi
[12:39:58] <Nadir> So Dominus: you are now a GIMP user !
[12:40:11] <Dominus> actually not really
[12:40:22] <Nadir> :)
[12:40:31] <Dominus> I'm too bad with graphics
[12:40:38] <Dominus> too impatient
[12:40:40] <Nadir> The GIMP was in fact the 1st open source app I worked on
[12:40:53] <Nadir> I did the 1.0 preference dialog
[12:41:06] <Nadir> 1.2 has a different (better :) one
[12:41:19] <Dominus> he he
[12:41:40] <Dominus> but I'm glad we can point people to an open source, free program to use
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[12:44:11] <Dominus> I may even take a look at some of the art we are missing but then other people are probably much better suited for this...
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[13:20:30] <Nadir> Check the second post from http://happypenguin.org/show?Exult#comments
[13:21:36] <Dominus> he he, very nice
[13:22:58] * Darke fails in his attempt to translate 'spunk of a good texture' into something he can understand.
[13:23:11] * Colourless fails too
[13:24:02] * Dominus thinks that if you come from 3dshooters you will probably say something like that :-)
[13:24:46] <Dominus> but your reply sums it up
[13:24:46] <Colourless> no, if you came from 3dshooters you would never use the word spunk :-)
[13:25:22] <Dominus> :-)
[13:28:16] <Darke> 'game has no girth' is also somewhat puzzling, but at least it kind of translates to 'the game is not well rounded'. <blinkblink> It kind of sounds like someone trying to speak 'Engrish' and failing. <grin>
[13:28:57] <Colourless> girth is so not a word that people would generally use when talking about a game
[13:30:21] * Darke nodnodnodnodnods.
[13:32:17] <Colourless> i declair that post stupid
[13:32:52] <Colourless> declare even :-)
[13:33:02] <Nadir> amen
[13:33:54] <Darke> Agreed!
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[14:42:50] <Nadir> bye all
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[15:58:35] <wjp> hi
[15:58:45] <Colourless> hi
[16:02:15] * wjp misses an e-mail on the ML
[16:02:36] <wjp> Colourless: did Paul Hebble reply to you personally or something? (about rendering order)
[16:04:43] <Colourless> Subject: Re: [Exult-general] Pentagram & Render Order Questions
[16:04:48] <Colourless> To: Ryan Nunn <triforce@merlin.net.au>
[16:04:48] <Colourless> Cc: Eric Bickle <shadowchaser@telus.net>,
[16:04:48] <Colourless> Exult Mailing List <exult-general@lists.sourceforge.net>
[16:05:24] <Colourless> it 'should' have gone to the mailing list as well
[16:05:29] <wjp> hm, strange
[16:05:49] <Fingolfin> maybe it's just lagged
[16:05:58] <Fingolfin> yo wjp, BTW =)
[16:06:06] <wjp> it could have bounced, too. SF has rather strict policies on its mailserver, AFAIK
[16:06:06] <Colourless> well, my reply came through :-)
[16:06:14] <wjp> hi Max :-)
[17:13:58] <Dominus> hi wjp
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[20:32:54] <Dominus> noise
[20:36:16] <Fingolfin> talking to yourself, eh?
[20:36:23] <Dominus> he he
[20:36:46] <wjp> :-)
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