#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Oct 2003 (GMT)

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[04:23:28] * Coren_ is away: Sleepness.
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[13:40:06] <Colourless> hi
[13:46:58] <wjp> hi Ryan
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[13:50:04] <Colourless> so, when does it all go down? :-)
[13:52:00] <Colourless> you could probably take that to mean 'when will the sf servers go down to screw over our release plans?' as things tend to go for us it seems
[13:53:08] <wjp> hm, I don't think I would have a problem with releasing now
[13:53:17] <wjp> (now as in right now)
[13:54:53] <Colourless> no issues here either
[13:55:12] <wjp> all version numbers should still be up to date
[13:55:19] <wjp> I just updated NEWS a bit too
[13:55:51] <wjp> so I'll just check if a tarball produced by 'make dist' compiles properly
[13:55:58] <wjp> and then tag cvs
[14:00:07] <wjp> hmm
[14:00:13] <wjp> there's a slight build system issue
[14:00:48] <wjp> 'make dist' needs usecode/ucxt/head2data, but doesn't build it
[14:00:54] <Colourless> ooh. those are always fun :-)
[14:01:12] <Colourless> ooh. blame darke. I like saying that :-)
[14:01:23] <wjp> (since it's needed by a file in usecode/ucxt/data)
[14:01:27] <wjp> actually I blame automake
[14:01:34] <wjp> but if you want I can blame DarkeZzz as well
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[14:02:50] <wjp> I wonder if the files produced by head2data should be in the dist in the first place
[14:04:05] <wjp> I would say no
[14:05:11] <wjp> (dist = source dist, btw)
[14:06:02] <wjp> after all, the files are not needed during the build process, but only when running ucxt
[14:06:56] <Colourless> my opinion is it wouldn't be needed
[14:07:15] <Colourless> it's not like exult_flx.h and etc are produced for a source dist
[14:09:24] <Colourless> um. mistake in the faq
[14:09:45] <Colourless> states in different places that the current version is beta3 and in others beta2
[14:10:47] <Colourless> ok, only 1 place has it wrong :-)
[14:13:56] <wjp> uh oh
[14:14:31] * wjp starts performing the faq-maintainer-summoning ritual
[14:14:44] <Colourless> also the important notice doesn't seem.... useful anymore
[14:15:44] <Colourless> 1.1. Important Notice
[14:15:44] <Colourless> This FAQ is for the work-in-progress 1.1.x version of Exult. Frequently asked questions and answers for the 1.0 version can be found where you installed the release.
[14:15:44] <Colourless>
[14:16:03] <Colourless> that wouldn't exactly make much sense with 1.1 releases :-)
[14:16:42] <Colourless> cause where you installed the release you would find a 1.1 faw
[14:16:42] <Colourless> s/faw/faq/
[14:19:17] <wjp> I think the notice was more for the html version on our website
[14:19:41] <Colourless> docs have the same section
[14:20:34] <wjp> ugh
[14:20:51] <wjp> autogen.sh deletes docs/xml/Makefile accidentally
[14:22:50] <Colourless> should say something more generic
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[14:23:44] <Colourless> something about which specific version the faq/docs are for, plus that the version of the faq/docs for your version can be found where it was installed
[14:24:02] <wjp> yes
[14:24:53] <wjp> do you want the change the xml file or should we wait for Dominus? :-)
[14:26:35] <Colourless> i'll wait
[14:27:29] <wjp> or I can do it
[14:27:51] <wjp> the supplied makefile seems to do the job here
[14:28:43] <Colourless> the thing about it, i can't rebuild the docs if i modify them
[14:28:49] <wjp> I can :-)
[14:29:24] <Colourless> i would hope so :-)
[14:29:50] <wjp> I did have to install xalan, but it 'just worked' after that
[14:30:46] <Colourless> :-)
[14:34:10] * DarkeZzz wonders what a faq-maintainer-summoning would sound like? "I can't get it to work! It complains about how it can't find the bg game files!" "Why is there no sound effects? How do I get them?" "When are you going to implement multiplayer?" "When are you going to fix stealing?"
[14:34:36] * DarkeZzz wonders if that, instead, is an anvil-summoning-ritual. He always gets the two confused.
[14:34:40] <wjp> no, that's the faq-maintainer-banishing ritual
[14:35:07] <wjp> although I do think a side-effect is the summoning of an anvil, yes :-)
[14:35:10] <Colourless> as you wonder, it is rather similar to an anvil summoning ritual :-)
[14:35:20] <DarkeZzz> *enlightenment (rather then anvils) strikes* Ahh!
[14:36:34] <DarkeZzz> I see Dominus is feeling even less optimisting about a problem free release then I am. *grin*
[14:38:11] <Colourless> how long does a summoned anvil last? we are missing one in #Pentagram remember, and I'm wondering if a summoned anvil would be a suitable replacement.
[14:38:48] <wjp> hm, it disappears immediately after delivering 10D6 points of damage to the target
[14:38:57] <Colourless> damn
[14:39:03] <wjp> (intelligence saving throw for half damage)
[14:39:26] <DarkeZzz> 20D6 isn't it? Or have they changed terminal velocity in 3rd ed?
[14:39:43] <wjp> hm, I was just making up the number :-)
[14:40:53] * DarkeZzz tisktisks. D&Ders nowdays. Can't recite estoric constants off the top of their heads. *grin*
[14:41:14] <wjp> estoric, eh? :-)
[14:41:50] * wjp tisktisks. IRCers nowadays. Can't spell esoteric words correctly. *grin*
[14:42:05] * Colourless imagines computer game with someone casting Summon Anvil, and the animation that would accompany it
[14:42:27] <wjp> PS:T could have it :-)
[14:42:34] <Colourless> yeah, it would fit :-)
[14:42:37] <wjp> (unfortunately it doesn't, AFAIK)
[14:42:41] <DarkeZzz> Or Giants: Citizen Kabuto!
[14:44:36] <Colourless> :-) I don't think Summon Anvil would 'fit' in Giants but I'm sure Planet Moon could produce a game where it would
[14:45:21] * Colourless does google search for 'Summon Anvil' and finds it's not an original idea
[14:45:31] <DarkeZzz> Yes! An Animaniacs themed game! That would be cool! *grin*
[14:46:07] <Colourless> now, that works :-)
[14:47:07] * DarkeZzz admits his original anvil thoughts, both on #exult and #pentagram, was as a result of him listening to Animaniacs mp3s at the time. *grin*
[14:49:21] <Colourless> :-)
[14:49:42] <Colourless> I can't imagine listening to Animaniacs mp3s :-)
[14:49:59] <wjp> hmm... I think X in Avernum/Exile also was researching an anvil summoning spell
[14:51:47] <Colourless> hey, remember in BG2 when you get an item made for you, a magic anvil and hammer appear in the air :-)
[14:52:35] * wjp nods
[14:52:37] <DarkeZzz> I think Sacrifice had an equilivant to an 'anvil' summoning spell, I think it was a great big rock instead. *grin*
[14:53:01] <wjp> well, if great big rocks count, I think PS:T had a summon meteor
[14:54:39] <DarkeZzz> Ah, no. James does have a 'bombardment' (drops large boulders onto the target) spell, but I was thinking of 'Bovine Intervention', which has the effect you may expect from the name. *grin*
[14:54:57] <Colourless> PST has it's hammer of smiting, that conjured a huge hammer that hit the person on the head 3 times
[14:55:52] <DarkeZzz> Ooooooh!
[15:01:53] <Colourless> wrong name. It was actually Spiritual Hammer\
[15:03:15] <wjp> it did surprisingly little damage, though, from what I remember
[15:04:39] <DarkeZzz> Ah yes, that spell. Depending on the D&D game, it was either the key weapon for a cleric, or worthless save for emergency use. *grin*
[15:06:42] <Colourless> it's not like Fall from Grace could do any damage :-)
[15:07:02] <Colourless> 1D2 was the amount of damage she could normally do :-)
[15:07:43] <wjp> yes... pathetic fighter :-)
[15:07:57] <wjp> luckily she had call lightning and healing
[15:09:06] * DarkeZzz wonders if Dungeon Hack works under dosbox. *eartwitch* Probably shouldn't check 'til after he's got this selection criteria finished... *addicttwitch*
[15:10:54] <Colourless> no, her 'finger' did 1D3 damage :-)
[15:17:02] <Colourless> the mechanus cannon was quite funny. It would actually place a cinematic while the spell was being cast
[15:17:08] <wjp> yeah
[15:17:18] <wjp> but all level 9 spells did that, didn't they?
[15:18:24] <wjp> Colourless: docs better now?
[15:18:50] <Colourless> i can't remember
[15:18:56] <Colourless> i know quite a few did
[15:23:48] * wjp hmms
[15:23:55] <wjp> looks like I screwed up a tiny bit with the docs :-)
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[15:29:17] <wjp> hi
[15:29:39] * Dominus drops an anvil
[15:29:41] <Dominus> hi
[15:30:04] <wjp> you're over an hour late :-)
[15:30:09] <wjp> ;-)
[15:30:10] <Dominus> what did you screw?
[15:30:14] <Colourless> for darke mostly, since it doesn't seem he has played pst. http://www.users.on.net/triforce/hammer.jpg http://www.users.on.net/triforce/cannon1.jpg and http://www.users.on.net/triforce/cannon2.jpg
[15:30:23] <wjp> already fixed it
[15:30:26] <Dominus> k
[15:30:32] <wjp> used a section_ref instead of a ref1 or something
[15:30:48] <Dominus> I had to go buy the usual weekend survival stuff
[15:31:17] <Dominus> it is a bit confusing if you haven't worked with our FAQ/docs system before
[15:32:23] <DarkeZzz> "Woah! That's a... big, gun!"
[15:33:56] <Colourless> it opens up a portal between the gun and your target :-)
[15:34:17] <DarkeZzz> Heh.
[15:34:35] <Dominus> wjp: I'll update the web-cvs doc/faq with your changed stuff
[15:34:47] <wjp> hm, I thought I already did that
[15:35:18] <Dominus> could be, I didn't get a notify mail
[15:35:24] <wjp> unless it needs more than just updating content/faq.dat, content/docs.dat?
[15:36:38] <Dominus> faq.txt and docs.txt as well
[15:36:58] <Dominus> (though I gues no one actually looks at those)
[15:39:01] <Dominus> I'll do those (if you haven'T beat me)
[15:39:07] <wjp> I beat you ;-)
[15:39:17] <Dominus> damn
[15:39:49] * Dominus thinks of resigning, as he seems to be no longer needed....
[15:39:50] <Dominus> :-)
[15:40:05] <Colourless> you can not resign. you can only be fired
[15:41:01] <Dominus> hm, and with this "don't-fire-very-inacive-team-members" policy, I guess this is a lifetime job
[15:43:20] <Colourless> hey, the only way you'd get fired would be if you leaked our sources to the public
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[15:46:23] <Dominus> :-)
[15:46:38] <Dominus> Coren_: hi, did you find the mt32-emu-source
[15:51:08] * Dominus kicks Coren_
[15:52:27] <Dominus> hmm, now where is my crusader stuff? theoretically it should run in Dosbox as well now...
[15:52:35] <Colourless> doesn't
[15:52:51] <Dominus> why not? :-)
[15:53:03] <Dominus> saves me searchinng my shelve
[15:53:10] <Colourless> unimplemented opcode
[15:54:00] <Dominus> so scrathc what I said last night, dobox development can not stop yet. it needs to handle Crusader first, then they can stop it :-)
[15:54:02] <Coren_> Dominus: no, I didn't.
[15:54:18] <Dominus> well... I could help you...
[15:55:00] <Dominus> do you accept dcc?
[16:43:33] <Colourless> so, do you think that Coren_ is attempting to disassemble his irc client to work out if he supports dcc or not?
[16:46:05] <Dominus> aehm, well we sorted this out in private messages, sorry for letting you not into our secrets :-)
[16:46:37] <Colourless> a conspiracy!
[16:47:25] <Dominus> yes and it involves leaking our source code, really soon...
[16:47:30] <Dominus> oh, did I write this here?
[16:47:33] <Dominus> damn
[16:47:44] <Colourless> you are really bad at being part of a conspiracy
[16:47:56] <Colourless> first you tell me it exists, then you revealed it's plans
[16:48:22] <Dominus> yeah, I expect to be thrown out of the conspiracy...
[16:48:27] <Dominus> branded a traitor
[16:49:29] <Colourless> thrown out? you've got to be kidding. the only way you can deal with a traitor of a consipracy is to kill them
[16:49:41] <Dominus> ick!
[16:49:48] <Colourless> unless of course they can wipe all your memories
[16:50:19] <Dominus> no please no more mucking around with my brain
[16:50:36] <Dominus> I tried that erasing part a couple of times myself and had bad experiences
[16:51:03] <Colourless> i think a Summon Anvil spell will have either result. Either you die, or you suffer extreme brain damage
[16:51:17] <Matt_O> which is faster? four 8-bit copies or two 16-bit copies?
[16:51:21] <Matt_O> (on x86)
[16:51:41] <Colourless> 2 16 bit
[16:51:43] <Dominus> :-)
[16:51:59] <Matt_O> I know that both 16 bit and 8 bit copies are slower than 32-bit copies..
[16:52:04] <Colourless> less instructions, nicer for the cahces
[16:52:06] <Matt_O> at least I've read that somewhere..
[16:52:12] <Matt_O> k
[16:52:22] <Colourless> yes 32 bit is fastest
[16:52:54] <Colourless> 16 and 8 bit support is more of an addon to modern cpus
[16:52:59] <Matt_O> right
[16:54:03] <Colourless> why do you want to know that?
[16:55:04] <Matt_O> I was just looking at a routine I have that does four 8-bit copies and I realized I could do two 16-bit copies instead
[16:55:10] <Matt_O> or better yet, a 32-bit copy and a 16-bit copy
[16:55:19] <Matt_O> (due to the way the memory is organized)
[16:59:15] <Colourless> unaligned memory access can really hurt performance. you should not attempt to read or write dwords to addresses that are not dword aligned
[16:59:40] <Matt_O> dword = 32-bit ?
[17:00:02] <Colourless> yes
[17:11:43] <Matt_O> I'm not sure I have total control over that
[17:11:57] <Matt_O> two 16-bit writes better than one unaligned 32-bit write?
[17:12:53] <Colourless> probably not :-)
[17:13:26] <Matt_O> :)
[17:16:20] <Coren_> Actually, two 16-bit writes tends to behave more nicely to caches on <P4
[17:16:43] <Coren_> A 32-bit write that straddles a cache line is *really* nasty
[17:19:37] <Dominus> hey I just noticed for the first time that Colourless is not written Colourless but Colourles (at least on sF)
[17:20:21] <Dominus> (When I took a quick glance at our bug page)
[17:20:36] <Dominus> and wjp is a SF contributor
[17:21:00] <Dominus> and I'm going to dinner
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[18:38:07] <wjp> ok... make dist is working
[18:38:12] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[18:42:11] <wjp> hm, I think I'll go play some BG2
[18:42:38] <wjp> I sent another "any objections?" mail to the ML... let's see what happens this time :-)
[18:43:54] <Dominus> I 'll think of some reason not to release beta3
[18:44:02] <wjp> I'm counting on it :-)
[18:44:12] <wjp> I need time to play BG2, don't want to be interrupted by having to release ;-P
[18:44:29] <wjp> *cough* :-)
[18:44:30] <Dominus> no, release now!!!!
[18:45:10] <wjp> anyway, rebooting to windows :-)
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[18:50:57] <Dominus> have fun
[18:52:01] <wjp> thanks :-)
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[19:09:18] <Dominus> hi Fingolfin
[19:10:35] <Fingolfin> yo
[19:20:09] <wjp> hi
[19:27:26] <Dominus> strange my mail to the ML bounced: Reason: rejected because 213.46.255.27 is in the Blackholes RBL
[19:27:52] <wjp> I had that happen from time to time too
[19:28:15] <wjp> it means your ISP managed to get its mail server blacklisted... usually because of too much spam being sent through it
[19:28:55] <Dominus> :-(
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