#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[00:17:04] --> Dalian has joined #exult
[00:30:53] <Dalian> :)
[00:33:11] <Dalian> I'm off for the next 10 days so I guess I have reason to smile
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[01:15:05] <wizardrydragon> Lol Dalian
[01:15:09] <wizardrydragon> Off work?
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[01:16:53] <Dalian> yep
[01:17:48] <wizardrydragon> Ooh fun stuff
[01:23:54] <Dalian> yep. I might actually finish building this city..heh
[01:26:06] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[01:27:34] <Dalian> Well, for a lot of shops and houses, the default chunks are good enough. But the tavern, for example, I'm building manually. There wasn't even a wood floor chunk w/o walls so I had to make one
[01:27:57] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[01:28:08] <wizardrydragon> The first thing I did was make chunks with plain floors
[01:29:36] <Dalian> good thing for Combos, too
[01:30:15] <wizardrydragon> Indeed!
[01:30:19] <Dalian> I think the very last thing I'll do is add the roofs :p
[01:30:29] * wizardrydragon is kind of proud as his complaints are part of why combos are there :)
[01:30:40] <Dalian> nice..they are a time saver for sure
[01:31:24] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:32:32] <Dalian> the wooden stairs to 2nd floor are a good use for combos
[01:32:44] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:33:01] <wizardrydragon> I have a ton of random combos, heh
[01:33:45] <Dalian> yeah..I got a few like that so far. Ones I may only use one other time, but were hard enough to warrant a combo
[01:33:54] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[01:34:06] <wizardrydragon> That describes the majority of my combos, heh
[01:34:21] <Dalian> heh
[01:37:02] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:37:07] <Dalian> fun stuff
[01:37:16] * wizardrydragon goes back to reinventing the magic system.
[01:37:28] <Dalian> O.o
[01:37:40] <wizardrydragon> Tehehe
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[03:31:21] <Dalian> two story buildings are fun to build! I think I got the hang of it now tho
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[04:13:03] <wizardrydragon> Only two stories, Dalian? :)
[04:14:22] * wizardrydragon has quite a few three-story buildings in certain parts of TFL :)
[04:20:57] <Dalian> :)
[04:21:36] <Dalian> that was my first attempt. I had to adjust to the lifted floor shapes not going where I expected them to. You have to offset it a bit
[04:22:22] <wizardrydragon> Hmm?
[04:22:45] <wizardrydragon> It should always be the Z value one above the walls below.
[04:25:16] <Dalian> if you place a floor shape in the upper left on a chunk, the green grid is correct. If the shape is lifted to say, 5, I found I had to place it over 3 and down 3 to get it to go where I wanted it
[04:25:47] <wizardrydragon> I never use the grid, I just go by it visually and numerically
[04:25:59] <wizardrydragon> The grid of ES does not neccesarily correspond correctly to ingame positions
[04:26:34] <wizardrydragon> It is in most cases "a best guess" but often my "best guess" is better :)
[04:28:24] <Dalian> maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly ;)
[04:28:35] <wizardrydragon> Perhaps not
[04:29:04] <wizardrydragon> But I believe the phenomenon you're trying to explain badly is caused by the "bug" Im trying to explain badly
[04:29:05] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:29:24] <Dalian> actually, I see what was confusing me. It's all good now tho
[04:29:53] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:30:09] <wizardrydragon> Make sure you set the default lift to the one you're editing on or it can get dicey
[04:30:21] <Dalian> yes I was doing that
[04:30:26] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:30:37] <wizardrydragon> A lot of people forget so I thought it worth mentioning.
[04:31:37] <Dalian> it's because the red cursor moves around on the green grid depending on the lift..that was throwing me off at first
[04:31:46] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[04:34:33] <Dalian> i managed to mess up the avatar's lift again too. Can't move stuff that's on 0 lift
[04:35:28] <wizardrydragon> lol
[04:35:30] <Dalian> i think that's from moving the avatar from one z to a different one. It still thinks you're on the previous z
[04:35:33] <wizardrydragon> Just alt-t tele back down
[04:39:58] <Dalian> what the heck..
[04:40:04] <wizardrydragon> ?
[04:43:16] <Dalian> i made a small bandstand, but now I can't walk onto it for some reason. The first step is at 0, the top is at 1. Won't let me walk onto it
[04:43:40] <Dalian> something about the top floor maybe?
[04:43:41] <wizardrydragon> Make sure the floor is passable
[04:43:52] <wizardrydragon> Also the floor extends up 1 Z
[04:44:01] <wizardrydragon> so the surface will be at Z 2
[04:44:17] <wizardrydragon> If you're using the standard floor tiles anyways
[04:44:26] <wizardrydragon> (ie not custom ones)
[04:44:28] <Dalian> ah yeah..dang it..so much for that idea :)
[04:44:58] <wizardrydragon> Just add another step and it should be fine.
[04:46:30] <Dalian> another step? it's the floor above that seems to be blocking it
[04:47:11] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[04:47:22] <wizardrydragon> Floor above howso? It has a second story?
[04:47:27] <Dalian> yes
[04:47:49] <wizardrydragon> Then you need a Z of 3 between the first floor surface and the second floors lift
[04:48:24] <wizardrydragon> If you raise the first floor above lift 0 then you must comphensate in the second floor to allow the avatar to fit.
[04:49:55] <Dalian> makes sense. I'm not redoing the second floor though..so I guess it'll have to be flat
[04:50:11] <wizardrydragon> Heh
[04:50:29] <Dalian> it was like a dais
[04:51:10] <wizardrydragon> I figured
[04:52:14] <Dalian> yes, I should have just said that in the first place :)
[04:52:24] <wizardrydragon> :)
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[08:38:32] * servus burrows under the silverleaf forest and eats emps that fall into his deathtrap holes.
[08:51:49] * servus smears several mangled emp carcasses with honey, then hides them under Iolo's porch, for the bees to come, the bees to come...
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[11:23:27] <Dominus> hey ho
[11:23:40] <Dominus> Colourless got slashdotted :)
[11:23:42] <Dominus> http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/18/0313243&from=rss
[11:28:58] <Dominus> congrats Ryan :) (and yes, you are insane :))
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[13:02:58] <Dalian> servus: what about a prog that does the opposite of the automapper?
[13:43:48] <servus> Dalian: Sure, that'd be simple. Do you really need one?
[13:47:17] <Dalian> servus: er well..
[13:48:59] <Dalian> servus: the automapper is cool..but I don't know how the entire world is going to be laid out for this
[13:50:00] <Dalian> 1) it'd be nice to be able to see how the map is looking so far. the cheat shows the original game's map so that doesn't help. Also, making the cloth map will be rather difficult w/o something like that
[13:51:35] <Dalian> it doesn't even have to show buildings, a dot of some kind would be nice
[13:51:55] <servus> You really should be able to trace a map into the correct colours in a few minutes, but I'll see what I can do... later : o)
[13:52:25] <Dalian> how do you mean?
[13:54:11] <Dalian> even at 800x600 you can't see much of the world at once
[13:54:53] <Dalian> but yeah..that's like wayyy low on the list of things to do for me. i just hope I can get a map working that works w/the sextant correctly
[13:57:15] <Dalian> what I'm wondering is how the map was generated for the teleport cheat
[14:01:36] <servus> They were talking about code to automatically generate the minimap for teleportation in here recently. Gotta ask one of them.
[14:04:54] <Dalian> hmm cool. If it were saveable, it could be used for the cloth map in game too I think
[14:05:26] <servus> Er, do you want a tool to create a cloth map, or a minimap?
[14:05:45] <servus> I mean, a cloth map, or a u7automapper-capable map?
[14:08:12] <Dalian> I'll need to make a cloth map eventually. But for now I'm wishing I had a way to view the whole map at once so I could see how much room I have etc
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[14:09:43] <Dalian> unfortunately a large part of the campaign takes place on one huge continent, and it's not very interesting shaped. So I'll need to break it up into continents as I go
[14:12:19] <servus> Use u7wizard with dosbox..
[14:12:37] <Dalian> hmm
[14:12:52] <Dalian> I'll give that another try
[14:13:04] <servus> Heck, you can even build the map with U7Wizard if you set it up right, I think. Just make sure u7wizard gets its own Ultima7 directory for everything.
[14:14:09] <Dalian> I got new chunks going, so I don't think I can at this point
[14:14:44] <servus> As long as it finds the appropriate shapes.vga, u7chunks, and u7map, it should be fine.
[14:17:07] <Dalian> oh that's right..it kept telling me that I have to run and play the game once first. Which I have
[14:18:34] <Dalian> I wasn't sure offhand what it was looking for and haven't gotten back to figuring it out
[14:21:51] <Dalian> maybe it's looking for a savegame
[14:24:56] <servus> Run U7 in dosbox and start a new game.
[14:34:16] <Dalian> oh great..memory manager stuff! woot
[14:34:20] <Dalian> :)
[14:38:05] <Dalian> it doesn't appear to like the directory structure with DOSBox...but it generated gameargs.dat, so I'll try u7wizard now
[14:41:03] <Dalian> nope..oh well
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[16:33:02] <Dominus> hi
[16:33:18] <Dominus> Dalian, I've read the recent log and wanted to help you build your map
[16:34:02] <Dominus> http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#command_line is how wjp built the teleport cheat map
[16:34:36] <Dominus> --buildmap ...
[16:54:24] <wizardrydragon> If its just the minimap he needs he just needs to press cetrain keys :)
[16:55:13] <wizardrydragon> btw does --buildmap accept mods as parameters?
[16:59:59] <Dominus> i have no idea :)
[17:00:18] <Dominus> how does it work for the minimap, IM out of the loop :)
[17:01:47] <wizardrydragon> shift-f3 by default
[17:04:20] <Dominus> is that now an actual map? i know we've talked about it some time ago, but didn't remeber if that is now the real map
[17:19:35] <wizardrydragon> Try it and see :)
[17:41:02] <Dominus> will do, have to go :)
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[22:13:18] <SB-X> Hi, Marzo.
[22:13:25] <Marzo> Hi
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[22:55:46] <servus> OT: Why do people keep trying to set me up with people I have *absolutely no* interest in?! Rawwwwwwwwr!
[22:58:24] <SB-X> They think you're lonely?
[22:59:11] <servus> That's even worse! I'm supposed to be projecting the fierce visage of Avatar Empslaughter here!
[23:06:50] * SB-X puts up "Caution: Emp-eater pits" signs around The Dark Forest.
[23:09:08] <servus> Sounds like armpits, the Locke Lake Committee will never go for it.
[23:10:08] <SB-X> It's better than "Emp-eater holes"...
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[23:20:33] <Dalian> Dominus: doh! I never even looked at the Exult command line options. I'll give it a try
[23:22:36] <Dalian> tho it doesn't mention anything about mods or patch
[23:22:52] <Marzo> The docs don't have that part yet
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[23:27:15] <Colourless> hmm silly me. two copies of mirc
[23:28:32] <Dalian> that command line doesn't seem to do anything
[23:28:44] <Marzo> What command?
[23:32:42] <servus> Colourless is going to save the emps with the awesome power of Voodoo5 SLI.
[23:33:01] <Dalian> the buildmap one
[23:33:24] <Marzo> It only works with --bg or --si, and with no mods
[23:33:39] <Dalian> ok
[23:33:44] <Marzo> It also creates a full size map
[23:34:07] <Marzo> If you want a minimap, similar to the teleport map, press Shift+F3 in game
[23:34:26] <Marzo> It will then replace the F3 minimap in game
[23:34:55] <Dalian> tho I typed exult --si --buildmap 0 and stderr.txt says you have to specify --si or --bg with --buildmap
[23:35:02] <Colourless> pfft sif
[23:35:09] <Marzo> Hm
[23:36:23] <Colourless> --si and --bg are deprecated
[23:36:29] <Colourless> they may not even work anymore
[23:36:35] <Colourless> i think you need to use --game
[23:36:36] <Marzo> They should work
[23:36:50] <Marzo> --buildmap doesn't accept --game
[23:37:16] <Dalian> ahh...how did I ever miss shift-f3? :)
[23:37:44] <Dalian> perfect
[23:40:45] <Dalian> question tho...I see a minimaps.vga in my patch now, but the map doesn't show up in the minimaps section in ES..just the default one
[23:40:56] <SB-X> You only have to use F3 to see the same map from then on?
[23:41:04] <Dalian> looks that way
[23:41:07] <SB-X> cool
[23:41:08] <Marzo> SB-X: Yes
[23:41:16] <SB-X> cool
[23:41:51] <SB-X> Do you have to manually edit the map to hide dungeons? :)
[23:41:51] <Dalian> i suppose it can be extracted with ipack if nothing else
[23:42:09] <Marzo> What was your question, Dalian?
[23:43:56] <Dalian> why doesn't the new map show up in the new minimaps section after doing that?
[23:44:15] <Marzo> Did you reopen ES?
[23:44:22] <Dalian> yes restarted both
[23:44:28] <Marzo> ES doesn't update the loaded minimaps.vga
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[23:44:53] <Marzo> Did you click the 'frames' button?
[23:44:58] <Marzo> Hi wizardrydragon
[23:45:07] <Dalian> oohh...just noticed that :)
[23:45:28] * Dalian needs to have some coffee apparently
[23:46:14] <SB-X> Hi, wizardrydragon.
[23:49:23] <Dalian> it should be possible then to make a 'cloth map' out of that, for in the game, which works with the sextant. It's not the exact same size but pretty close
[23:50:21] <Dalian> redrawing over it so it looks more like a map someone might use, of course
[23:53:11] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: Moo.
[23:57:23] <Dalian> Cows with guns